When do you move from being CD to TG?

[Eve II]

At what point does one really move from being a CD to a TG? Is CD just the occasional or random dressing as a woman with TG moving toward the transformation of being a woman in mind and finally outwardly showing it? I know that I have been a CD for years starting with sneaking my Mom's clothes. Then came my bra fetish - ( this years New Year's resolution was to wear a bra everyday & I have !!!!). Now I want what I believe I really am - to become that woman in my appearance that I know in my mind I am. Does this mean I'm a first stage TG or just a commited CD?

[kimdl93]

I don't know about stages, but it sounds as though you dress as an expression of the woman that you are inside. That sounds pretty TG to me, but I'll defer to others on more precise definitions that I'm sure would follow. I prefer to think that CDing is part of a diverse array of TG behaviors. I don't even like the idea that there's a single continuum with polar extremes, because at least in my conception, we're made up of a lot of elements and many dimensions.

[sterling12]

You do understand? You can be both, and perhaps a lot more. TG has become an Umbrella Term that pretty much encompasses The Whole Spectrum.

I imagine that are TG Folks who don't dress at all, but still feel The "Femme Within." I know there are lots of other folks all over The Spectrum who would also classify themselves as TG, and _______.

When was The Shift from CD to TG? Simple answer is The Moment when you had some self-awareness. Call it an Epiphany if you like, but it's A Reality that some people would ignore at their own peril.

Peace and Love, Joanie

[Kate Simmons]

I wish it were that easy to define. Everyone is an individual and one "size" or title or name does not fit all. Your self identification is mostly up to you in any case my friend.:)

[Sheila]

Actually from CD to TS all fit under the TG umberella TG being short for Transgendered CD being Cross Dresser & TS being Transexual ....... Transexuals usually define as ........ individual who identifies individual who identifies with a physical sex that is different from their biological one .......... not quite the same as Cross-dressing which is defined as ........... the wearing of clothing and other accoutrement commonly associated with a gender within a particular society that is seen as different than the one usually presented by the dresser.

So you can be TG CD or TG TS and there are many stages on both identification lines (just to complicate it even more :straightface:)

Transgender is the state of one's "gender identity" (self-identification as woman, man, neither or both) not matching one's "assigned sex" (identification by others as male, female or intersex based on physical/genetic sex). "Transgender" does not imply any specific form of sexual orientation; transgender people may identify as heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual, pansexual, polysexual, or asexual;

[Lexine]

Thanks for the clarification on the definition Sheila! For the longest time I confused TG with TS and finally, when I looked the term up on Wikipedia, TG was actually an umbrella term that encompassed several different subcategories (CD,TG,etc).

Hurray for me being a TG heterosexual MTF CD! Gosh, that's so long!

[JenniferB]

Labels.
They can be so confusing at times.
Let's see...I was what I'd classify as a "very serious CD". Then I went from dressing 24/7 and starting hormones to getting breast implants in Jan. of this year.
Am I just a really serious CD on hormones who has boobs now?
Am I a TS?
Good question.
Having SRS is not at the top of my list of things to do at the present time.
I'm happy where I'm at now, but what label do I apply to myself?

[carhill2mn]

"TG" is a term that usually encompasses several types of people; "CD" being one of them. Also, usually included is "TS" (trans-sexual) which are usually considered to be people that feel they were born with a body that does not match their "real" gender. These people often want/need to do more than crossdress to become happier.

A "CD" usually is content with his (usually male) body but derives enjoyment, satisfaction, etc. from dressing and acting as a woman at times but has no desire to physically change to become a "woman". However, a "TS" may crossdress for some time before coming to the conclusion that just appearing to be a woman at times is not enough. This does not mean that someone who is really a "CD" will move on to become a "TS".

I understand that this subject can be more than a little confusing especially to someone who is just learning. Asking questions is a good way to get better informed.

[sandra-leigh]

I would say that you know you are TG when you become aware that being "male" in the standard sense is no longer a realistic option for you. That doesn't mean you identify as definitely female, just that you realize that the "not male" part of you is not going to go away.

I do not mean just an urge to dress in women's clothes: it is when you stop saying to yourself, "I am a male, but ..." and start saying to yourself "I am not entirely 'male'."

If you know in your mind that you are female, then you are at TG and possibly TS. On the other hand, if you do not perceive yourself as being female yet then you are either not TS or do not know yourself to be TS. (I am of the opinion that one can be TS before realizing it; some people in the forum say that TS is "something that you always knew you were", but I am not certain that is true -- for example, quite a few of the FTM have written of not knowing until they were older.)

[sissystephanie]

A TransGendered CD is one who thinks of themself as being a different sex than they physically are. As in, a Male who wears feminine clothing because he thinks of himself as a Female. A TransSexual CD dresses like a woman because he wants to become one completely! A Transvestite Male dresses like a woman to have sex like a female!

I wear feminine clothing simply because I like too. I have no desire whatever to be a woman in any way! Yes, I have been made-up by my wife enough to pass in public but I was not "trying" to be a woman. I am a man, and am perfectly happy with that!

Wikopedia, and many other so-called information places, have virtually distorted the meaning of many of the descriptive words that are commonplace in our Forum.

A CD can be a TG, a TS, and even a Transvestite. But he, or she, can also be simply a CD as in my own case!! My information comes from a number of hours spent with experts in the field of Gender disorders in years past, and the answers are not any different now than they were then. You are what you are, but you can believe something else if you want to!

[sandra-leigh]

A TransGendered CD is one who thinks of themself as being a different sex than they physically are. As in, a Male who wears feminine clothing because he thinks of himself as a Female.

Umm? What about the people who are in-between male and female, or who do not fall into the male/female categorization at all? What word other than "transgendered" is used for that?

Interesting, urbandictionary does a good job in their definition (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=transgender). Miriam-Webster's is shorter (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/transgender) but in agreement.

[NathalieX66]

We are all TG on this board....technically.

Let me put it this way:
Moving from CD to TS is realizing when you have little or nothing to lose by doing so...or you are willing to lose what you already have, in order to gain.
How much are you willing to lose, or give up?

In my case, no matter how much I may be interested in transition, I realize that I am too happy with aspects of may male self that I am unwilling to give them up. The s fact is that no matter how much I feel I want to go to Montreal to have facial feminization surgery or HRT, I still never want to give up the aspects of being a guy and feeling in control olf everything and doing it all, even if I can't do it all, I am still a guy and I love it.
In my case, my goal is to be a better & more convincing woman vs. making the Great Transition into womanhood, which, regrettably, I would never be able to return to my male self.

[AKAMichelle]

I am definitely TG. I just wish that I would stay put on the spectrum because I keep evolving and changing all the time. :D

[olga]

When do you move from being CD to TG?

This is an essential question that I am trying to answer for myself for a while now. But for me it’s not about “moving” — it is about figuring out if my crossdressing is just the“naughty” thrill of crossing the gender boundaries on the surface, or an expression of my gender identification.

For me, I think it’s the latter. I’ve come to the conclusion that dressing en femme just feels “right” for me. It flows better. I can’t really describe it any other way than this. The pressure of performing, or acting, as male is gone. It creates a completely different social dynamic around me, which feels so much more natural to my being.

olga

[Super Amanda]

We are all TG on this board....technically.

Yes, indeed.


Our terminology is sooo inconsistent within the community...I've had people jump down my throat here for telling them that same thing...and yes, we all are saying what we "identify" as, which is a personal choice, but for science and medicine's sake, we NEED proper labels, CLOSETED crossdressers may not, but us full timers definitely do, period. If there was no distinction between being a CD or TS, then this would all be worthless, and any of us transsexuals will tell you there is a BIG difference. I also realize as an American, there is most certainly different terminology throughout the world.



I think the OP really means "When do you move from being CD to TS?", whether she knows it or not. So I'll answer it the only way I can...


I I.D.'d as a CD for the longest time, just occasionally dressing, fully in the closet and not knowing anything about TS people. I had many purges, while trying to "fix" myself, lol. I knew in my gut that I wanted to be a girl, but couldn't come to grips with it for many years, which is another story.

For me, knowledge was what it took to realize I was TS, whether I ever transitioned or not, because I couldn't change it any more than I could change my race. It took this forum, in fact, to see that the "what color are your undies" and countless other crossdressing clichés did not interest me at all, turning me away from these kinds of places for a while. I wanted to be a girl in public, not be a maid, or a nurse, or a **** or any kind of "costume" dressing.

I think it may have been someone from the Safe Haven here who first suggested that I may be TS, so I started researching TS women, reading their stories and sooooooo much was clicking that I just knew from that point on who I really was.




The bigger, badder question, perhaps, is "So, you're TS, now what?" because knowing you're TS, and transitioning are two very different birdies...

[Karen564]

I really cant tell you what you are, because only YOU know what's in your head..

There is a bigger difference between a TS & CD than some would like to believe...but regardless, they fall underTG..
And I do like Sheila's post of the simple definition, because it's pretty clear about it...

I'll "try" to keep my words short, because I don't want to write a novel on it here, but may turn out that way anyways ...LOL

But I can tell you that I'm a Transsexual, and that I have suffered with Gender Identity Dysphoria (GID) since I was a very young adolescent.. ..

Meaning that deep within my core, I never felt my birth gender as a male was correct, I always felt as a girl inside.....and it's something that never went away, because I felt this way every minute of the day from the moment I awoke to the time I fell asleep..and sometimes even in my dreams.

It's not really just about dressing as a female, it's more about how you wish others to treat you just as any natural born female....It used to hurt very much emotionally every time I heard my male name being called, or referred to as him or any other male pronoun...and that's even when I was dressed & lived as a male..

Some commit suicide because of the severe depression we can feel at times..
And it came extremely close to that point for me & thought it all out to make sure I did it right the 1st time !...And nobody was gonna get some token cries for help from this girl beforehand...

And to me, being a Transsexual in the true sense is more about how you feel about your inner gender identity between your ears & soul, and not determined by what clothes you wear, surgeries or steps you take to appear as a woman.....The woman in me comes from deep within & my soul in the purest sense...

It starts within our brain, and then many of us do what it takes to correct our official documents and our bodies as far as finances permit to match how we identify & feel in our head and on to live our lives as women....but some do hold off bottom surgery for various reasons..but that makes them no less a TS woman..and most will end up getting the final surgery eventually .

So my point being, A transsexual is born transsexual....
Of course they may have crossdressed early on, but in reality, they were always transsexuals but didn't know what to call themselves or identified as CDers until they found out what the difference was between the two..by either through their own research, or after seeking professional therapy..

And then there's some that knew but cant come to terms or acceptance of what they know in their hearts of what they have to do, and their are also others that have accepted it, but for whatever reasons live out their life not transitioning...

The last group are the ones that I feel so bad for & to be honest, I don't know how they can live with that kind of agony..

So if you find out that you are Not a TS, I would count your blessings if your CDer & enjoy it...because I wouldn't wish being a TS on anyone...God honest truth...

Today I'm well adjusted living 24/7 as a Pre-Op TS Woman enjoying life & currently going to college for a new career in Medcine and finally am happy about my life for a change....

Um, very sorry, that was way longer than I intended....lol

Karen
:hugs:

[Super Amanda]

Hey Karen, good points, and very interesting parallels to my post, which we were writing at the same time, BTW!

[Karen564]

Thanks Amanda, you beat me by a minute, but I like yours better, it's shorter...lol
:hugs:

[ReineD]

I'm happy where I'm at now, but what label do I apply to myself?

Non-op TS?

[docrobbysherry]

I guess I'm a tranny WAITING for the TG shoe to drop for me! But, so far, I'm with U, SS! I don't feel, or relate to, being female in any way, shape, or form!
Except when I dress and look in the mirror. THAT'S only visual! And, it's Sherry I see, not ME!:eek:


A TransGendered CD is one who thinks of themself as being a different sex than they physically are. As in, a Male who wears feminine clothing because he thinks of himself as a Female. A TransSexual CD dresses like a woman because he wants to become one completely! A Transvestite Male dresses like a woman to have sex like a female!

I wear feminine clothing simply because I like too. I have no desire whatever to be a woman in any way! Yes, I have been made-up by my wife enough to pass in public but I was not "trying" to be a woman. I am a man, and am perfectly happy with that!

[Fab Karen]

when do you move from breathing to breathing oxygen?

[Sandra]

When do you move....

My SO thought through all her life that she was a cder...she gradually went form dressing occasionally to going 24/7,and had her name changed by deed poll.

Gradually she started to want to be more of a woman and after a while she said that she was TS, and is now starting the road to transition. After her vist to the clinic she was asked when she knew she was TS was it there when she was young? she said that she didn't think so but the Dr said it probably was but she was perhaps blocking it. On the way home we was chatting about what had been said and she came out with, "I used to look in the mirror and see a girl" and a few more things came out....so I guess what I'm trying to say is that is probably is there in the back ground....when do you move only when you are ready.

[Debutante]

There is truth in the notion that the more you dress, get in touch with your "inner woman", however she may be: things change.
You find that balance -- either of masc. and fem. sides of your personality -- or you discover deeper feelings and desires. You may want to be that woman you feel you need be. You have to "know yourself" -- whether in reading, therapy, inner work, meditation, and trial and error. It takes time. Some are TS and know it right away.... others, like myself, continue our journey while we peel away layers of guilt, shame, suppression, etc. Sometimes there are no easy answers.You must start the journey and do the work to stay on course.

[thechic]

I just don't know what i am, all i in know is i want to be female too often.I think im a hybrid.:drink::drink:

[Carly D.]

Actually from CD to TS all fit under the TG umberella TG being short for Transgendered CD being Cross Dresser & TS being Transexual ....... Transexuals usually define as ........ individual who identifies individual who identifies with a physical sex that is different from their biological one .......... not quite the same as Cross-dressing which is defined as ........... the wearing of clothing and other accoutrement commonly associated with a gender within a particular society that is seen as different than the one usually presented by the dresser.

So you can be TG CD or TG TS and there are many stages on both identification lines (just to complicate it even more :straightface:)

Transgender is the state of one's "gender identity" (self-identification as woman, man, neither or both) not matching one's "assigned sex" (identification by others as male, female or intersex based on physical/genetic sex). "Transgender" does not imply any specific form of sexual orientation; transgender people may identify as heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual, pansexual, polysexual, or asexual;




I agree.. Truth is the definitions get hazy for all that is what cross dressing and everything therein.. So many stages from wearing ear rings (which guys get their ears pierced and wear ear rings (studs) and aren't cross dressers) to wearing panties under your clothes.. To wearing pantyhose.. To me the desire to wear any womens clothing is cross dressing(?) or not or maybe or not at all... sheeesh what a load my response is..

[FemmeElastique]

I'm a gay guy who CD's sometimes to meet guys so they can treat me like a woman. What am I? :-)

[Kaitlyn Michele]

As some of the women here have pointed out,
if you are a TS , you are a TS...you are a person that has a brain(perhaps a soul if you believe that) that knows the real you only as a woman...this is important because i don't believe any of us evolve into being TS....i don't know this as fact but that's my opinion based on my own experience..transitioning is something TS's tend to do, but many do not..crossdressing is done by many but not all ts's

when you say you are a cd, you are saying that you are have a male life that you embrace as your own...you may feel you have a dual nature, a strong female side, or a strong sexual desire about it, but in your own mind you are a man...cd's either dress at home, go out and dress or only fantasize about it..but there is always a time when the femme clothes come off (or perhaps you underdress) and you live a real man's life

when we talk about evolving, i don't beleive we evolve between these two things, but we do evolve in our own thinking about what we are...its a confusing thing to be ts, people that are not cd or ts have a hard time understanding us..we are marginalized in society and many of us feel confused and lonely growing up...then we find someone like us to guide us, or we want to die and give up fighting reality, or we just realize its ok....this is where the evolving comes in and its dramatic in many cases...





this was certainly true for me...

[Super Amanda]

this was certainly true for me...

Me too! :) What a beautiful post..... Kaitlyn, you are amazing!

[FemmeElastique]

As some of the women here have pointed out,
if you are a TS , you are a TS...you are a person that has a brain(perhaps a soul if you believe that) that knows the real you only as a woman...this is important because i don't believe any of us evolve into being TS....i don't know this as fact but that's my opinion based on my own experience..transitioning is something TS's tend to do, but many do not..crossdressing is done by many but not all ts's

when you say you are a cd, you are saying that you are have a male life that you embrace as your own...you may feel you have a dual nature, a strong female side, or a strong sexual desire about it, but in your own mind you are a man...cd's either dress at home, go out and dress or only fantasize about it..but there is always a time when the femme clothes come off (or perhaps you underdress) and you live a real man's life


I can see this as true for me. When I've already fulfilled my purpose for CDing for the hour, evening, or hookup , sometimes I can't wait to take off my wig (especially on hot days) and my form fitting dress and heels and slip on my shorts, t-shirt, and flip flops. It's so much work being a woman! Which is why I don't think I could ever be a TS. But the rewards are great.
CDing really does bring out my feminine size, which I've always known to be strong. I knew then when I started fantasizing about myself as a woman during sex.[/QUOTE]

[Melani]

And all of the post you have read are right....there is no specific answer. Its true TG is an umbrella term, but if understand your intended question correctly you are wondering at what point does it become less about the clothes and more about revealing and connecting with the feminine inside you. I can't answer your question for you, but what I can do tell what I feel. Once I felt I was a guy who liked to dress from time to time, it was just fun. Whether it was denial or maybe it was the path I'm just on who knows. But recently I realized that its less about the clothes, hair, make up etc. and more about how I see the world. Now I am(at this time) not interested in transition or living 24/7 or 12/7 or in anyway wanting to alter my physical appearance. My change has been inward, I don't feel I need to dress to be in touch with my fem side. I have worked on integrating both my masculine with my feminine and now I view the world around me through that perspective. I still love the clothes and still dress and go out several times a month. But its how I feel when I'm not dressed that helped me realize I'm not just a CD, not a guy who dresses, but I am also not a woman trapped in a man's body. I much more than all that, I'm now complete, no longer confused, no longer worried or scared , no longer wonder whats wrong with me, I don't need the clothes because I have accepted myself, in a word or two I'm Happy. I hope this helps, take all the advice and perspective you have received from all the post here, sift through it, reflect on it, don't rush it and hopefully you will find the answers you desire and hopefully you'll find your true self.

[Stephanie Anne]

So the question is have you always felt discomfort over being male when your mind says female or are you happy being a man but have a desire, either sexual or not, to wear women's clothing.

As far as moving from CD to TS, you don't. You may think yourself a crossdresser if your are a transsexual but you are simply trying to deny a deeper issue that you are not capable of facing at the time. Being TS sucks and I would never wish it on anyone. Cross dressing is awesome becasue you get to role play but go back to the life that is normal for you. For many of us, normal left the train station years ago.

A true CD will never want to transition as they are not unhappy being a man (or woman... I know you are out there FTM CD!!!) and have no desire to stop being a man.

[Melani]

Its when you start preferring flats or some low heeled shoe because those 5" stelitto's just hurt too much after a night of dancing. Its when you'd rather wear jeans or slacks because shaving your legs is such a pain. It's when you'd rather watch Grey's Anatomy instead of the Ball game. When you buy a comfortable bra(if there really is such a thing) instead of those sexy ones. Its when your under dressed and forget your wearing panties. Its when you are shopping you wonder what your buns would look like in that. When shopping for a purse you opt for a larger bag because you have to carry some much stuff a clutch will just not due. Its when or if you exercise you concentrate more on your buns and inner thighs than you do on your arms and pecs. Well hope this helps good luck

[Sophie_C]

Every person is different. I knew I was TG around 13-14 or so, and it's something that doesn't even require dressing to do.

[Super Amanda]

Being TS sucks and I would never wish it on anyone....


Gee thanks! Speak for yourself, sis. I love myself, and if I had a choice in my transgender-ness to be TS or CD, I would choose TS in a heartbeat, because I'm a woman, and a CD lifestyle is not appealing in any kind of way to me, and as a transwoman, at least I could still live a woman's lifestyle. :2c:

[Stephanie Anne]

Gee thanks! Speak for yourself, sis. I love myself, and if I had a choice in my transgender-ness to be TS or CD, I would choose TS in a heartbeat, because I'm a woman, and a CD lifestyle is not appealing in any kind of way to me, and as a transwoman, at least I could still live a woman's lifestyle. :2c:

I applaud you for being able to feel that way. Some of us never got that self assurance that it was ok to go through this. I still choose go through this but the mental struggle to get to this point is not something I wish on anyone.

Sorry if you misunderstood or I was not clear but that is the part I label as "suck"

[sandra-leigh]

Its when you start preferring flats or some low heeled shoe because those 5" stelitto's just hurt too much after a night of dancing.

Heh. "Been there, done that", except that I don't watch TV as the forum is more interesting. Oh yeah, and my leg hair isn't thick enough to make shaving an issue.

My regular purse is big enough that it drags on the ground unless I hold it above waist level. :heehee:

[Super Amanda]

Sorry if you misunderstood or I was not clear but that is the part I label as "suck"

A big part of TS life is self acceptance, which I obviously have at minimum come to terms with, and in my opinion have mastered for myself. I can't tell you how to get there, but I think it should be a TS persons first goal, after self realization.

To me, what you said was like saying "It sucks to be black" or "it sucks to be human" , so I just wanted to add that not all TS are miserable, in fact many of us around here are quite optimistic, despite our daily challenges. And as more time passes, I'm beginning to feel like I wouldn't even change a thing about who I am, even if I could, because I feel in my heart that I'm a good person, made even better by my being trans.

So to say it "sucks to be ____", is a personal opinion, and a reflection of how one feels about their self, and situation. The biggest struggles trans folks seem to complain about are usually self imposed, IMO.

[SusanLeigh3454]

Congratulations Amanda for being the self assured and confident woman that we all long to be.

[Debb]

I just don't know what i am, all i in know is i want to be female too often.I think im a hybrid.:drink::drink:

"Hybrid" : I like that! I'm borrowing/stealing/using it, thanks.

[Karen564]

So to say it "sucks to be ____", is a personal opinion, and a reflection of how one feels about their self, and situation. The biggest struggles trans folks seem to complain about are usually self imposed, IMO.
Hey Sis,
I don't want to speak for Viktoriya , and could be wrong about how I interpreted it, but I think she means it "sucks" being TS only because of jumping through all the hoops and going through the transitioning process to fix what we should of been born as from the begining...

And so, that does suck...but doesn't necessarily mean someone hasn't come to terms with it or is miserable..

:hugs:

[Nicole Erin]

If there is a move from CD to TS it is this -

When you know you want to live as a woman, but the "fun" of dressing up is gone.

[Super Amanda]

Hey Sis,
I don't want to speak for Viktoriya , and could be wrong about how I interpreted it, but I think she means it "sucks" being TS only because of jumping through all the hoops and going through the transitioning process to fix what we should of been born as from the begining...

And so, that does suck...but doesn't necessarily mean someone hasn't come to terms with it or is miserable..

:hugs:

Ahhh, what ditz, I am... THAT does suck....I guess her delivery struck a chord with me...

[RobynBella]

I identify myself as a woman, but I'm not where I want to be in my life before transitioning right now. So as of now, I'm stuck being a crossdresser. I don't underdress, that's stupid, but I do like to keep my feet girly, only because I like to show them off when I'm with people I'm out to. Being a girl is great, too bad I don't look like one. But it still doesn't change the fact that I am

[melissacd]

As some of the women here have pointed out,
if you are a TS , you are a TS...you are a person that has a brain(perhaps a soul if you believe that) that knows the real you only as a woman...this is important because i don't believe any of us evolve into being TS....i don't know this as fact but that's my opinion based on my own experience..transitioning is something TS's tend to do, but many do not..crossdressing is done by many but not all ts's

when you say you are a cd, you are saying that you are have a male life that you embrace as your own...you may feel you have a dual nature, a strong female side, or a strong sexual desire about it, but in your own mind you are a man...cd's either dress at home, go out and dress or only fantasize about it..but there is always a time when the femme clothes come off (or perhaps you underdress) and you live a real man's life

when we talk about evolving, i don't beleive we evolve between these two things, but we do evolve in our own thinking about what we are...its a confusing thing to be ts, people that are not cd or ts have a hard time understanding us..we are marginalized in society and many of us feel confused and lonely growing up...then we find someone like us to guide us, or we want to die and give up fighting reality, or we just realize its ok....this is where the evolving comes in and its dramatic in many cases...





this was certainly true for me...

I find this a very interesting perspective because I feel quite comfortable in my male biology, I have never felt like a female trapped in a male body, I have always felt like a male trapped in the wrong clothes, role, life expectations. I know that I am happiest when I express myself in a feminine way. So I do not feel a need to have SRS but I would like to live presenting all of the time as a female. I am not quite sure what that makes me, but somehow it does not seem to fit within the definition above. I certainly have not interest in getting into my male self as the only self that I feel is really me is the feminine persona.

[olga]

So the question is have you always felt discomfort over being male when your mind says female or are you happy being a man but have a desire, either sexual or not, to wear women's clothing.

As far as moving from CD to TS, you don't. You may think yourself a crossdresser if your are a transsexual but you are simply trying to deny a deeper issue that you are not capable of facing at the time. Being TS sucks and I would never wish it on anyone. Cross dressing is awesome becasue you get to role play but go back to the life that is normal for you. For many of us, normal left the train station years ago.

A true CD will never want to transition as they are not unhappy being a man (or woman... I know you are out there FTM CD!!!) and have no desire to stop being a man.

I know what you mean. I agree. You don’t “move” from being a crossdresser to being trandgendered. If you are TG, CD might be a step on the way of discovery.

As far as “being TS sucks”, that’s certainly debatable. Despite all the pain and confusion, it certainly has its magical moments. Especially when being :drink::drink::drink::drink:

olga

[Stephanie Anne]

Ahhh, what ditz, I am... THAT does suck....I guess her delivery struck a chord with me...

All good. Your response struck a chord with me too :)

And yes I mean the experience sucks not the actual being. I am proud to be trans but not the self hate I made myself go through to get here.

Threadjack!

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Hi Melissa

maybe you fit in the best place of all, which is to be happy and comfortable with yourself..

it seems to me that being happiest with a feminine persona is different than being a woman, or maybe its a step towards a new kind of self acceptance..having a dual nature is something alot of folks here embrace and enjoy

btw
i don't hate my male body, i pragmatically accepted my male biology for many years...i sure am liking the changes tho

[Sporco]

When I see a cute girl walking down the street I react - but not like guys do... I'm jeolous of the body she gets to live in and the life she gets to experience and the clothes she gets to wear, not that I want to sleep with her. I'm TG or TS or whatever you'd call it. All I know is I hate my man's body.

[Dame Gerous]

I'm a gay guy who CD's sometimes to meet guys so they can treat me like a woman. What am I? :-)

You are Human like the rest of us. :)

Then again, I am a Lesbian trapped in a man's body. Funny thing is, I
am more of a quote "Lip-stick Lesbian." myself. But I still identify as human.

[Madilyn A.]

Then again, I am a Lesbian trapped in a man's body. Funny thing is, I
am more of a quote "Lip-stick Lesbian." myself. But I still identify as human.


When I see a cute girl walking down the street I react - but not like guys do... I'm jeolous of the body she gets to live in and the life she gets to experience and the clothes she gets to wear, not that I want to sleep with her. I'm TG or TS or whatever you'd call it. All I know is I hate my man's body.

If only I was younger !!!

[Annaliese2010]

At what point does one really move from being a CD to a TG? Is CD just the occasional or random dressing as a woman with TG moving toward the transformation of being a woman in mind and finally outwardly showing it? I know that I have been a CD for years starting with sneaking my Mom's clothes. Then came my bra fetish - ( this years New Year's resolution was to wear a bra everyday & I have !!!!). Now I want what I believe I really am - to become that woman in my appearance that I know in my mind I am. Does this mean I'm a first stage TG or just a commited CD?You are definitely TG. It begins in the mind. A M2F TG individual feels himself to be female, acts feminine, thinks like a woman and therefore can be rightfully addressed as her or she, not him or he. For her, using makeup to become pretty and dressing as a woman therefore follows naturally. Your mannerisms and emotions - which I bet are decidedly feminine are already in-place because such behavior is simply an extension of what is your underlying feminine reality - at the level of mind. It's what's underneath that counts - as in, underneath the persona you show the world at large - which we all must do - whether male, female or TG. There is always a good deal of anyone's persona that is other-determined i.e. purposeful with respect to set and setting, and consciously or subconsciously designed to further your goals, ensure your success and survival. So it's just a matter of degree in your case - but in this instance, not of your choosing. Even though you have the exterior anatomy of a male, you are in a more fundamental way, female. My guess is that you have had to consciously alter your natural inclinations WRT to behavior and thinking, just to protect yourself from the intolerance of a very base, prejudiced, misunderstanding world (at large). You're not becoming transgendered, you already are. And by self dis-inhibition you're simply unmasking that which already is.

This is in contradistinction to someone who simply dresses as a woman yet continues to know himself as an essential male. The reasons he dresses are different and varied, and no less valid. There is no value judgment to all this. It's just human behavior. Still...I would hesitate to say that this kind of CD'er is transgendered. To do so would blur the critical distinction that exists between the two types of individuals. And it IS important to make such a distinction, IMO. No one's "better" than anyone else - again, IMO. However we are at the same time not all the same. Most people fall into SOME kind of group that is distinct from other groupings of people, whether it's in relation to sexual orientation; gender identification; or the million and one other attributes, tastes, leanings, biases and behaviors that make us what we are today - whether by choice or constitution. The only way to sort it all out is...through language. Language relies on words - words that have meaning. The best words are those that are not ambiguous. As for the word "clarity". What a beautiful word that is. It even sounds clean, yeah. Seeing how it is only through the use of observation, reason and analysis that we are able to know ourselves and appreciate our diversity, I'd say words that label and describe in a manner that is clear and decisive are pretty important. I mean...what's the alternative? Oh wait, I know...Yeah. There's a word for that: ignorance - in the better sense of that term, not the pejorative colloquial sense.

[Super Amanda]

Annaliese2010, you mean transsexual when you use the term transgendered, because like it or not, ALL crossdressers are transgendered. One's who feel they are a woman inside are considered to be transsexual, whether they are on hormones or not, surgery or not, living as a woman full time or not. This is not my opinion, it's fact.

There is so much confusion in the transgendered world as it is, we should strive to get our terminology straight.

I know I sound like a nag, but I do live full time, and the general public already is so misinformed about trans folk, like crossdressers and transsexuals, so I feel like we should at least get on the same page. I don't care what country your from, if you speak English, this is the correct terminology.

[Annaliese2010]

Hi Super Amanda. No, you're not being a 'nag'. In fact I admire your thoughtfulness on the subject By thoughtful I mean it in a literal sense; someone who thinks, cares, leans towards understanding and truth. It means you take yourself and the world around you seriously and that just has to be admired and respected - and I do admire and respect you on that count.

However I am just curious. Would you say there a general consensus regarding the use of the term transsexual ? By general consensus I mean a sort of informal understanding and agreement on the use of that word by the vast majority of M2F trans-gendered (including cross-dressing) people. If so, I haven't picked up on it yet. In fact I'd say there is - in general - confusion on the use of the 3 most frequently used words that are used to describe us, our state of being and behavior: (1) crossdresser, (2) transgendered, (3) transsexual. Then again maybe it's something I'm simply not aware of and I'm displaying my ignorance on the subject of word usage - but I doubt it.

IMO there IS no general consensus in the crossdressing community nor the 'professional' i.e. medical/psychological/psychiatriac profession - and everyone is left with their own privately formulated definitions which, as you suggest, leads to confusion. See...to me, the term crossdresser is a generic or umbrella term that includes ALL individuals who cross-dress, regardless of motivation; the term trasngendered describes those who do so because they have an interior self-identification that is decidedly female (of a feminine character), and while there may be some residual male 'flavor' to their inmost nature, this aspect of their thinking-feeling-behaving is minor and takes a back-seat to their predominantly female 'beingness'. Transgendered males will not only crossdress but also act and behave feminine, think and feel womanly. While non-transgendered males may to a greater or lesser degree act female, because they don't feel themselves to be female in an essential way, this behavior is willful and contrived. Not that there's anything 'wrong' or in any absolute way trivial or less valuable by this, just that is is differently motivated. Also, depending on sexual orientation, truly transgendered males (who should be address as female, actually) tend to be attracted to males - or - if lesbian, to other women (GG's and/or other truly transgendered males, like themselves).

Now, about the point of our contention - one which you are personally invested and impassioned - and duely so I might add; and naturally so as well, given your full-time status and what this therefore reflects about your own personal inner feminine reality which I hereby acknowledge, recognize and accept and, by virture of your inner strength and wherewithal, respect. That said, I submit for your consideration the following: That the term transsexual be reserved for post-op transgendered individuals, for only in these few among us is there the penultimate striving to be female - even though they are 'trapped' in a body that has a male genotype. In other words, just as I recognize and respect the profound degree to which you are transgendered i.e. have the deeply subjective state of being that is decidedly feminine, it is also important to recognize that there are those who are so profoundly female by their immediate self-knowing, and so dysphoric by what to them is a cruel trick of nature i.e. to be born in a male body, that the only solution is to surgically modify their body so as to bring it in allignment with what they know themselves to be.

I would therefore suggest, as it seems obvious to me by the very inference built into the word itself, that the term transsexual be reserved for those who are post-op. By surgical procedure, these transgendered individuals now have the physical (sexual) genetalia of the opposite (trans) sex.

In summary, by the definitions given above, the following scheme applies:


----------------------------------------------------------------


CROSSDRESSERS

non-Transgendered Males & Transgendered Males

Transsexuals

-----------------------------------------------------------------



And the following conclusions, by their logic, are self-evident:
(1) All who wear female clothing are Crossdressers. But not all Crossdressers are transgendered or teanssexual.
(2) All Transsexuals are transgendered. But not all transgendered males are transsexual.

Peace Out
-Liese

[sandra-leigh]

Liese, your definitions do not match those of reference sources such as Mariam Webster. If you do a google search on the term define:transgendered then of the page of definitions that come up, only one explicitly agrees with you (and another from the same source disagrees with you), and one could be construed as agreeing with you or not; the rest disagree with your definition.

For example,


The term transgender (sometimes abbreviated to trans) is a term that has had different meanings over time but most often refers to a person with a gender identity that is different from their birth sex or who expresses their gender in ways that contradicts the traditional binary concept of gender. This umbrella term may include cross dressers, drag kings/queens, transsexuals, people who are androgynous, Two-Spirit people, and people who are bi-gendered or multi-gendered, as well as people who do not identify with any labels.

In particular, Liese, your definitions would say that people such as me, whose gender identity is a mix of male and female, should be called the same thing as cross-dressers whose gender identity remains the same as their birth sex. There is a significant difference between a male-bodied person whose " interior self-identification that is decidedly female" and male-bodied person with "interior self-identification that is decidedly not male", and a significant difference again to those male-bodied persons whose interior self-identification is male.

For example, my therapist asked me, "If you had to choose one mode of dress or the other permanently, which would you choose?" My answer was "female". My male components are not "minor", but I find that I can't go back to "male" any more. I've been wearing female clothing nearly all the time for just under three years, including pushing the boundaries of "stealth" clothing at work.

[Annaliese2010]

Hi Sandra-Leigh. Your post is most enlightening. I had no idea there was such a mix as you described. I'm not even sure what some of those terms are. So yeah, I can see where I've over-simplified what it means to be TG. And yes, I'm now interested in learning more. I wish I knew of a good reference, one that's from a mainstream clinical or medical source. God knows how many bazillions of hits a Google search will bring up, and within all that, so much that is more confusing biased or just flat-out inaccurate.

But by what you've said, I think we both agree that the term transgendered points to something different WRT the gender experience or status of someone that deviates significantly from what is considered normal for a male (or female) - and that this is embedded in that persons core or essence as opposed to a behavior that is feigned or imagined or adopted for other reasons, whether trivial or profound - even if profound by their own right, though not in the same way as is the case for someone born with such a gender 'anomaly' (for want of a better word).

All of which makes me wonder just where I stand in the mix. I mean, I'm here, riught? That's got to say something to me, I guess? But at the same time, based on what I gather by your experience and that of many others here, I know I'm not similarly affected by what I sort of feel to be this, my excursion into the psycho-sexual world of transgenderism. Sometimes I feel like a big fake though I don't think I'm consciously trying to pull something over on myself that isn't at least in some way real by what I take to be my inmost tendency or character. Like you, I am a male/female mix. My gender seems to be fluid, not rigid or static.

I have to be the man in me most of the time by social exigency. IOW so as to avoid social ostracism and all the b.s. that would otherwise ensue were I to reveal my feminine tendency. Something I'm not willing to do, not because it would necessarily be devastating or limit my job or income, but because it goes against my greater purpose which has nothing to do with gender and because it would be an unnecessary distraction. But sometimes, under certain circumstances, when there is complete local privacy, I am free to express this my feminine side to the near extinction of the male I normally am. Isolation isn't really necessary - because if I have enough time I find myself out and about, though away from this side of town. When in another burb or city I have no problem simply being the girl I am regardless of how well I am accepted by the general public.

But it's funny because...aside from all the b.s. and embarrassment I had to put up with when growing up, during which time I learned how it was necessary to quell the babe in me and turn-up my guy side, I'd have to say I now have no great problem being male most of the time. In fact, only a few years ago did I 'remember' myself and allow myself to re-surface. Interestingly enough, it wasn't out of gender desperation or because of some overriding need to do so as it is for many, where they find it very hard to self-suppress their essential femininity and suffer in doing so, but because the feeling of 'escape' or 'relief' that accompanied such a M2F transition was (and is) a welcome respite from what I found to be a very unsatisfactory frustrating life, for other reasons I won't explain since it'd take too long and be too boring for anyone to read.

Another reason I don't feel like most others here, I'm guessing, is how I suspect when (and if) my personal situation improves I'll probably no longer be needed and just sort of evaporate or disappear like a dream remembered upon waking. It's funny to contemplate this. Surprisingly, i don't feel remorse or panic thinking ahead as such. Even knowing how all that I am now, by my experiences felt, so real and vibrant; by my desires and passions, hungry and poignant; my joys, regrets, smiles and cries...all of it will dissipate or merge into the greater background of my lifes past - lost forever like tears in rain. And it will be as if i never was... :sad:

Aw but that's okay actually, 'cuz if that were to happen it only means I found a greater happiness and more fulfilling life in the company of a hot GG gf (assuming she's not into me, Annaliese, which is probably a safe bet - women being how they are about 'competition') - my life saved by the ever more insisting intrusion of another's need who also cares. Her (or their) demands and needs will rush in to fill this vacuum that is the mainstay of my inner domain. For mine is in many respects, a life unlived; a body unused; a stillness too deep; a light too bright; an existance too unfettered, uncomplicated; too easy, unproven. And as it necessarily follows, devoid of the color and character, whether good or bad, imparted by action forced by the daily demands of others close and near. By my observation, seeing the world through eyes distant, cold and objective, I would guess that most people don't even know how happy they are - or - how unhappy they would become were those daily trifles and tribulations to disappear from their very rich, meaningful forward leaning lives. Not too many could take the deafening sound of silence that is left. I'm surprised I'm still alive actually. Guess that means I'm one hot, resilient and rockin babe.

[Holy shit, to say "But I digress..." is an understatement for this post... Sorry 'bout that! LOL...] :o

[sandra-leigh]

In fact, only a few years ago did I 'remember' myself and allow myself to re-surface. Interestingly enough, it wasn't out of gender desperation or because of some overriding need to do so as it is for many, where they find it very hard to self-suppress their essential femininity and suffer in doing so, but because the feeling of 'escape' or 'relief' that accompanied such a M2F transition was (and is) a welcome respite from what I found to be a very unsatisfactory frustrating life,

I know how that goes. I was fairly ill (though slowly recovering) when I discovered I was a cross-dresser -- and discovered that it was one of the only two things I ever found that made me feel orders of magnitude better. Far far better than any medication. Escapism? A case could perhaps be made for that, but then again it could also be made that I was "coming home". Even before I knew I was ill, I had been "trying things on" without even knowing what I was doing... had been since about 1993. And that doesn't even include the experiments in my youth...

I do know that my life as an open cross-dresser and then open transgendered person has been much better in some ways than my previous life. As I've said a few times to my therapists, "I tried living as a male, and it didn't work out; now I have to rebuild my life with changes." I'm not certain that the feelings won't go away some day, but it doesn't feel like they are. If it's been 16 years already, it doesn't seem likely that 16 years from now that when I see a nice skirt that I'm not going to get the urge to put it on and "see how it looks".

[ReineD]

Annaliese, welcome to the continuum. :)


the term transgendered points to something different WRT the gender experience or status of someone that deviates significantly from what is considered normal for a male (or female) - and that this is embedded in that persons core or essence as opposed to a behavior that is feigned or imagined or adopted for other reasons, whether trivial or profound
Transgendered means even more than this. Who's to judge whether a person's behavior is imagined, even if they only dress occasionally? Who decides how deeply embedded are their experiences? Or at what rate the transgendered experience should expand even if, for a period of time, the experiences are predominantly, as you put it, psycho-sexual?

Earlier you suggested that the term transsexual should be reserved for post-op TGs. What about the TS who does not have the financial resources or is not physically healthy enough to undergo SRS? Your answer may well be that she could have HRT as this would cause similar, albeit chemical, changes. But then what about the CDs who want breast implants or a lesser degree of HRT for feminization purposes, but who do not want decreased male functioning? There are also the bi or dual-genders (the third gender if you will) who do not fit neatly into either end of the gender spectrum. So, for simplicity's sake, 'transgendered' has become an umbrella term for anyone (as Sandra Leigh clarified in her quote), who either innately has or occasionally expresses his or her gender in ways that contradicts the traditional binary concept.



Another reason I don't feel like most others here
You're not reading enough threads. :)



I suspect when (and if) my personal situation improves I'll probably no longer be needed and just sort of evaporate or disappear like a dream remembered upon waking.
There are many posts from TGs here who've believed that once firmly ensconced in a loving relationship with a GG, the desire to dress would disappear. But it rarely does. And when it does resurface, the experiences can be less sexual than before, but equally if not more intense.



(assuming she's not into me, Annaliese, which is probably a safe bet - women being how they are about 'competition')
A GG competes for her partner's attention, nothing else. And judging by the membership in this forum there is an increasing number of GGs who are into their partners' femme expression. But, once the first phase of the romance is over, if his interest in her diminishes over time in favor of rekindling or expanding his femme self (just as he can also develop a greater interest in any other activity), the GG might feel as if she has become secondary in the relationship. Depending on how it plays out, she may see her partner's femme self as the other woman ... the woman who is taking him away from her, when in fact it is their relationship that needs to be worked on. Don't forget this. :)

[Annaliese2010]

I know how that goes. I was fairly ill (though slowly recovering) when I discovered I was a cross-dresser -- and discovered that it was one of the only two things I ever found that made me feel orders of magnitude better. Far far better than any medication.Oh wow, I didn't mean to imply that I was physicaally ill, 'cuz I'm not actually. But your story is cool and interesting and makes me wonder if there is perhaps a curative effect by what you've described. IOW, if one is a self-repressed TG person, or maybe someone who is TG but hasn't realized this yet (or maybe suspects that about him/herself but can't handle it, so rejects the whole notion) - that this somehow compromises the immune system, and so by giving in, relenting, accepting, finally, the TG fact about his/her self, that this act would boost the immune system and make someone well again. I mean, it's well documented how ones attitude and emotional well being can affect health - even profoundly so. It's interesting to contemplate - but no, I myself am not ill. I guess I should've been more specific in the post you're referencing. I was basically bemoaning the facts of my existence - one that's waaay too involved and convoluted to explain. I doubt anyone would believe me anyways. Suffice it to say I've been living in an interminable limbo...in a holding pattern, circling round and round...alone, but by choice...and it has everything to do with money - big money baby - and the need to be cautious and self-sacrificing or rather, self-denying WRT relationships I could've had, would've had, loved, appreciated and all the rest - were it not for that which I'm not explaining - so forgive me for being so cryptic - and for bitching as much as I have. It's just that going through all this is like walking through a desert... It changes you - at least while you're doing it. Changes you in some good ways, much as a crucible purifies by fire - and in bad ways too.

Lonliness and isolation when experienced too long, is a real....shit, I can't even put it into words. It's a fcing religious experience of biblical proportion - of course I'm being totally sarcastic putting it that way, so... mind blowing then. You become warped, twisted, tangled, unsure what you're doing, why you're living. And even though successful and 'normal' by all outward signs...material accomplishment comes to mean next to nothing.

When you're on the outside looking in you see all these people surrounded by all this detail, the fullness of life's fleeting little nothings that mean everything. A caring expression, true and sincere; a knowing nod, a compliment, a complaint; a babies giggle, an old womans approval, a hot girls simple yet earth-shaking presence, an average looking girls velvety voice and intelligence; unmet need suffered, needs fulfilment rejoiced - all of it's so endless, so alive - so loving - evanescent and precious - because of the intent underneath - the striving - the urgency - all of it important - all of it directed at you - and the love you throw back, not by trying, just by letting it flow - from her to you and back. It's so easy...and right and good and natural and so very powerful. Thus the expression "Love conquers all" and I so get that now. So in that respect - how I've become right-minded about some pretty important things - I guess my time in this state of self-imposed isolation is good - though it's been years... Years lost... years out of sync... years of not belonging... years of utter aloneness...and now I just want it to stop.

I wanna come home, but there's no home to go to - just a big empty house... a big empty bed... and when it's very late, the quiet is deafening. So, okay...in a way I AM ill. But it's not a defined physical oe mental illness that afflicts me: not cancer, not heart disease, not some hormonal deficit or neurotransmitter imbalance, not a virus nor any other physical agent or mechanism gone asunder. It's not even any thing - far worse. It's no thing - as in nothing. And Nothing is dreadful. It'll swallow you up whole if you're not strong - if you can't swim against its inward flowing current. Nothing is the lack of love. Funny how something so intangible as 'love' is yet so very powerful. If Love is the most powerful positive force in the universe, loves abandonment is the most destructive. It turns you inside-out. Tears your heart and rips your soul until they bleed into each other. Leaving you empty, scarred for life. Untrusting. Cold. Calculating. Selfish. Arrogant. And if you're not strong, dangerous. I don't know if I can ever heal. I think the cause of these my worst of times is going away and for the first time in years I believe there is light ahead. Light and life and air to breathe. People to meet and all that follows. It must be so...or I will go under and come to regard the physical illnesses to which you allude a godsend, should I be so fortunate as to fall victim to one such agent of rapid undoing.


I do know that my life as an open cross-dresser and then open transgendered person has been much better in some ways than my previous life. As I've said a few times to my therapists, "I tried living as a male, and it didn't work out; now I have to rebuild my life with changes." I'm not certain that the feelings won't go away some day, but it doesn't feel like they are. If it's been 16 years already, it doesn't seem likely that 16 years from now that when I see a nice skirt that I'm not going to get the urge to put it on and "see how it looks".I think it's wonderful that you are keeping an open mind, are objective and in possession of a rather obvious ability for such deep insight - one that allows you to come to know who you are, what you want and where you're going. That you can reason and articulate your own experiences is quite cool - and very helpful to those who are on a similar journey. Much of what you've said makes sense. Though I am quite uncertain about myself, what resonates and what doesn't, I'm reading your little signposts along the path and making mental notes.

[Annaliese2010]

At what point does one really move from being a CD to a TG? Is CD just the occasional or random dressing as a woman with TG moving toward the transformation of being a woman in mind and finally outwardly showing it? I know that I have been a CD for years starting with sneaking my Mom's clothes. Then came my bra fetish - ( this years New Year's resolution was to wear a bra everyday & I have !!!!). Now I want what I believe I really am - to become that woman in my appearance that I know in my mind I am. Does this mean I'm a first stage TG or just a committed CD?Thanks for starting this thread Eve, I guess my advice comes from my limited experience/knowledge of exactly what it is you're asking about. For what it's worth, my opinion has changed by what Sandra, Reine and others have posted in your thread. I'm sorry for my rather lengthy posts - I guess I'm struggling to understand where I fit in too, though it seems clear to me by what you've said that you are transgendered to a significant degree. That's a qualitative term, I know, but it's based on my intuitive sense and all the posts I've read by others during the past 8 or 9 months - though I probably haven't READ enough of other peoples posts (which I'm going to start) and have written way too many - not 'cuz I think I'm anything special but to kill time, I guess - well, plus for more serious reasons sometimes.

At least you can feel good knowing you are an "official" TG by the consistency of your past, which stretches back to your childhood even. I wish it were that simple for me. I don't have that in common with everyone. My history or experience in gender transference doesn't go that far back. It 'started' when I was maybe...late 20's early 30's, and until recently was highly episodic, with huge gaps of time in between. I'd have to say my practice of crossdress, isn't, and the effect of occasionally doing it, inconsequential, focusing mainly on s#xual gratification - in a way that wasn't necessary - done more in the spirit of adventure. Only recently has there been added to this more of the sense of being female. Though I attribute that to a sort of coping mechanism that's been invented by me as a sort of way out - or reprieve from an intolerable situation. It has nothing to do with a pre-existing drive or need to express the so-called woman in me. In fact...I willed her into existence...gave her life and breath and freedom to evolve however she by her own developing personality determined that to happen. But why all this if there isn't the kind of internal drive that so many others like yourself seem to experience?

As I indicated before, there's been a bad outside situation going on for years in my life - and it's not simple - it's multidimensional - involving what I consider the waste of many fcing YEARS...no I'm not in a hospital or a prison - though it often feels like one. Anyways this is the primary motivation. Everyone can take only so much before it destroys you in some way. With no immediate solution forthcoming, about a couple years ago it just hit me how to deal. By becoming someone else - in a controlled manner - and to make it really work - someone else of the opposite sex. I was always curious about transgenderism, so it all just clicked in that one moment, by that specific outer motivation. See? But for it to work, it had to be done to the hilt - with serious intent and by sustained effort. The whole se#ual appeal kind of kicked in too...unexpectedly powerful at that. But believe me, in the beginning, as now: - I - conceived, brought to life, encouraged and set free my Annaliese upon the world, LOL. It's like constructing a wind-up doll by my imagination and willful intent - and ok, a tiny bit (or slightly greater than tiny bit) of 'natural' feminine propensity (but not to any untoward extent) - a sort of mindset is assumed, and it's just like getting into 'the zone' in sports for instance. Just by having the intention of doing what you're wanting to do - automatically sets in motion the powerful machinery that is the subconscious mind - not only for this 'project' but for everything that you do, actually. So time and commitment are also necessary ingredients. Then soon enough...Voila! Something happens as if by magic and there she is. Another personality - differently gendered, no less - taking root (though that's probably too strong a term) - expanding, evolving... It's kinda cool. But it is what it is - and what it is aint really real. It's just a process...one that is allowed. Not something that imposes itself. However it must be allowed freedom to come alive, to evole, self-orgainze - and if it doesn't it's just a shallow contrivance and no fun at all - and no escape either - which was the whole point. 'Cuz taking a back-seat to an independent yet totally dependent, charming yet moody, capable yet vulnerable, pretty (gotta be pretty) woman is a real comforting thing. It's relaxing, mostly enjoyable, calming and very often an incredible turn-on.

Sounds weird, but it's kind of a god-rush to create life where no life was before; and light, where no light could be found. But just as god giveth, god taketh away too. And so someday shall I... extinguish the light that is the 'life' of my sweet Annaliese. Of this I have no doubt - and it's even silly to worry about. When I find she is no longer needed...or fun or useful...poof! She's history - as in HIS story - one that's in the past. Plus you gotta admit...it's a real pain in the ass and takes a whole lot of effort to make yourself pretty. I have so much more respect for GG women now... I could never do all it is they have to do each and every day, all the year through. Talk about pressure! And that's before getting out the door on their way to work...

[JulieK1980]

Hi Sandra-Leigh. Your post is most enlightening. I had no idea there was such a mix as you described. I'm not even sure what some of those terms are. So yeah, I can see where I've over-simplified what it means to be TG. And yes, I'm now interested in learning more. I wish I knew of a good reference, one that's from a mainstream clinical or medical source. God knows how many bazillions of hits a Google search will bring up, and within all that, so much that is more confusing biased or just flat-out inaccurate.

But by what you've said, I think we both agree that the term transgendered points to something different WRT the gender experience or status of someone that deviates significantly from what is considered normal for a male (or female) - and that this is embedded in that persons core or essence as opposed to a behavior that is feigned or imagined or adopted for other reasons, whether trivial or profound - even if profound by their own right, though not in the same way as is the case for someone born with such a gender 'anomaly' (for want of a better word).

All of which makes me wonder just where I stand in the mix. I mean, I'm here, riught? That's got to say something to me, I guess? But at the same time, based on what I gather by your experience and that of many others here, I know I'm not similarly affected by what I sort of feel to be this, my excursion into the psycho-sexual world of transgenderism. Sometimes I feel like a big fake though I don't think I'm consciously trying to pull something over on myself that isn't at least in some way real by what I take to be my inmost tendency or character. Like you, I am a male/female mix. My gender seems to be fluid, not rigid or static.

I have to be the man in me most of the time by social exigency. IOW so as to avoid social ostracism and all the b.s. that would otherwise ensue were I to reveal my feminine tendency. Something I'm not willing to do, not because it would necessarily be devastating or limit my job or income, but because it goes against my greater purpose which has nothing to do with gender and because it would be an unnecessary distraction. But sometimes, under certain circumstances, when there is complete local privacy, I am free to express this my feminine side to the near extinction of the male I normally am. Isolation isn't really necessary - because if I have enough time I find myself out and about, though away from this side of town. When in another burb or city I have no problem simply being the girl I am regardless of how well I am accepted by the general public.

But it's funny because...aside from all the b.s. and embarrassment I had to put up with when growing up, during which time I learned how it was necessary to quell the babe in me and turn-up my guy side, I'd have to say I now have no great problem being male most of the time. In fact, only a few years ago did I 'remember' myself and allow myself to re-surface. Interestingly enough, it wasn't out of gender desperation or because of some overriding need to do so as it is for many, where they find it very hard to self-suppress their essential femininity and suffer in doing so, but because the feeling of 'escape' or 'relief' that accompanied such a M2F transition was (and is) a welcome respite from what I found to be a very unsatisfactory frustrating life, for other reasons I won't explain since it'd take too long and be too boring for anyone to read.

Another reason I don't feel like most others here, I'm guessing, is how I suspect when (and if) my personal situation improves I'll probably no longer be needed and just sort of evaporate or disappear like a dream remembered upon waking. It's funny to contemplate this. Surprisingly, i don't feel remorse or panic thinking ahead as such. Even knowing how all that I am now, by my experiences felt, so real and vibrant; by my desires and passions, hungry and poignant; my joys, regrets, smiles and cries...all of it will dissipate or merge into the greater background of my lifes past - lost forever like tears in rain. And it will be as if i never was... :sad:

Aw but that's okay actually, 'cuz if that were to happen it only means I found a greater happiness and more fulfilling life in the company of a hot GG gf (assuming she's not into me, Annaliese, which is probably a safe bet - women being how they are about 'competition') - my life saved by the ever more insisting intrusion of another's need who also cares. Her (or their) demands and needs will rush in to fill this vacuum that is the mainstay of my inner domain. For mine is in many respects, a life unlived; a body unused; a stillness too deep; a light too bright; an existance too unfettered, uncomplicated; too easy, unproven. And as it necessarily follows, devoid of the color and character, whether good or bad, imparted by action forced by the daily demands of others close and near. By my observation, seeing the world through eyes distant, cold and objective, I would guess that most people don't even know how happy they are - or - how unhappy they would become were those daily trifles and tribulations to disappear from their very rich, meaningful forward leaning lives. Not too many could take the deafening sound of silence that is left. I'm surprised I'm still alive actually. Guess that means I'm one hot, resilient and rockin babe.

[Holy shit, to say "But I digress..." is an understatement for this post... Sorry 'bout that! LOL...] :o

Here is a link for the "official" Psych diagnosis, for gender dysphoria, and all the associated subclasses.

http://www.mental-health-today.com/gender/dsm.htm

Just don't take it too much to heart just yet, as the diagnosis is currently under scrutiny in the psychological community due to inherent flaws in the terminology.

The DSM is the official medical book for all mental health diagnoses that psychiatrists, and psychologists use to diagnose gender issues, and all mental health issues for that matter.

[Annaliese2010]

Here is a link for the "official" Psych diagnosis, for gender dysphoria, and all the associated subclasses.

http://www.mental-health-today.com/gender/dsm.htm

Just don't take it too much to heart just yet, as the diagnosis is currently under scrutiny in the psychological community due to inherent flaws in the terminology.

The DSM is the official medical book for all mental health diagnoses that psychiatrists, and psychologists use to diagnose gender issues, and all mental health issues for that matter.Thanks Jody! Yes I'm familiar w/DSM and don't know why I didn't think of looking at it before. I'm going there NOW especially after all this discussion. And thanks for the heads-up about how the APA is currently reviewing their terminology. This is a godsend and shall be my standard reference WRT term usage in the future. Only thing is...I may be wrong but I bet they look at the transgendered mind from a dysphoric POV and I don't have any sense of dysphoria in this regard. Then again, I don't think I'm really truly transgendered in a fundamentally significant way, so not feeling that kind of dysphoria isn't all that surprising. But it's fascinating and will make for some really interesting reading. Thanks again. :)

[Megan Thomas]

What a diverse range of answers, some of which I can relate to. For myself, as someone with a new potential SO keen to share this aspect of my life with me, I can only state how I feel. That is, a transsexual not wanting to undergo surgery. At one time I thought of myself as a CD but slowly came to realise my default "mode" is more female than male, and given a choice I would dress and live as a woman fulltime.

[JulieK1980]

Thanks Jody! Yes I'm familiar w/DSM and don't know why I didn't think of looking at it before. I'm going there NOW especially after all this discussion. And thanks for the heads-up about how the APA is currently reviewing their terminology. This is a godsend and shall be my standard reference WRT term usage in the future. Only thing is...I may be wrong but I bet they look at the transgendered mind from a dysphoric POV and I don't have any sense of dysphoria in this regard. Then again, I don't think I'm really truly transgendered in a fundamentally significant way, so not feeling that kind of dysphoria isn't all that surprising. But it's fascinating and will make for some really interesting reading. Thanks again. :)

Your quite welcome! I know what you mean, I've been following these discussions on our terminology for awhile now, and it didn't dawn on me till yesterday, to look up the diagnosis... haha! :)

As for the dysphoric POV, I'd say your probably right. It's sadly not nearly as comprehensive as I'd like to see, but its a start, and hopefully they will change it for the better, and not worse. ;)

[Karen564]

Only thing is...I may be wrong but I bet they look at the transgendered mind from a dysphoric POV and I don't have any sense of dysphoria in this regard. :)

It's not that THEY look at it from a dysphoric POV, it's more because that IS what a Transsexual feels..Which is discontentment with their biological sex.
Then they break down how dysphoric/transsexual you are in a level of stages from high to low..

[gennee]

I moved from CD/TV to TG/TS last June. I had crossed every road that I came upon without hesitation. When I realized that this was to be life altering change I hesitated. After several days I finally crossed into this threshhold. I haven't been the same since.

Even when I started out, I sensed that my experiences ran deeper than just clothing. I always had a kinship with transsexuals but didn't know why at the time. Now I do.

Gennee

[MrKunk]

Do you feel girly inside, do you relate with women, do you love girly stuff? If so
your probably transgender. You don't have to crossdress to be transgender or
transsexual but most of us out here do crossdress in one way or another and
enjoy it because it brings us closer to our femme side and it feels good.

[carolinoakland]

Life can distract from the voice inside. but it will not be silenced, unitl you satisfy it, and that's when you notice that it's when you are a woman that you can hear your true hearts knowledge.