The right hormones at the right time?

[olga]

From a logical standpoint, the case is quite clear: I like dressing in female clothes. But the question why do I like this is far more difficult to answer. Am I “just” a crossdresser, or am I transgendered?

In today’s session my therapist brought up an interesting fact: A person’s gender identification and sexual orientation develop in the mother’s womb. Both are determined by the release of specific hormones at a relatively short time window. The interesting thing is, they don’t happen at the same time, and both are independent of the physical development of the baby’s sex organs. Which means, that a person can be born gay-or-straight and male-or-female independent of their physical gender attributes. If your mom didn’t produce the “right” hormones at the exact time, you end up with a gender ID that does not match your body.

I’m wondering how many men are out there whose gender ID is actually female (and vice versa), and don’t even know about it!
And I’m relatively sure that this scenario might be the root of the struggles I’ve been going through for so long. I sincerely (perhaps naïvely) hope that I have found the missing link that explains why I am the way I am.

What am I going to do with this knowledge? For some reason, it gives me a little more peace. Hopefully just enough to be able to move on and explore.

Happily confused,
olga

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Hi Olga..I loved your message

my scientific knowledge is limited, and i believe what you are saying is probably true, but i also don't think its proven....its just a likely possibility.. (could be wrong//)

either way...your realization is a big deal, and many of us have shared this moment with you...i know i did

no matter how you get there, ALLOWING yourself to truly consider that your internal identity is a REAL THING is a watershed... i spent my life disbelieving it and suffering for it..
and i still have moments where i think i'm a selfish weirdo that's finally having her fun (less and less tho!!:heehee:)

what i'm saying is that this thought of feeling better about yourself is so underrated...in some ways, its the whole point!!!

not having a physical identity to match your "mental" identity has to be a form of torture..and figuring all this out makes you more confused only because you've repressed what your inner mind has always known..if you let it all sink in, it should make more sense, not less!

one gift of transition for me has been that this confusion is gone...i was soooo obsessed with why me!!! what is going on???

i came to the same exact conclusion you are heading for..."oh, its in the womb!! it's a real thing"...my next conclusion was "i'm allowed to do this" and off i went... you may act totally differently but at least you know more about yourself!! explore away...really knowing yourself is a wonderful blessing...over time you can get there

:hugs:
Kate

[SamanthaStMichaels]

Well actually there are a lot of theories about this. As everyone know we are all female for the first 7 weeks of our existence. Tell that to the manly right winger. LMAO

There are many possibilities for the hormonal imbalance during the early stage. It could be entirely natural or the mother to be could be stressed out. These are two possible natural ways for our condition.

Another possibility is a drug called DES that was used between the 50's and early 70's for woman prone to miscarry. This drug was eventually taken off the market. It has a history of gender related abnormalities. Though that's not the reason it was removed from the market. Otherwise they would have been open to lawsuits.

Another possibility recently discovered is the transgender gene. This gene cause us to be resistant to the hormone during the critical stage of development.

My personal theory is all the contamination in our environment. In our drinking water alone are hormone, both testosterone and estrogen, anti depressants, pain killers, antibiotics, all sorts of chemicals. We can filter out waste in out water systems but not these chemicals. I mean look at all the abnormalities within other species due to pollution.

We are/ or maybe eating genetically enhanced plants with pesticides on them. Drinking hormonally laced milk, and meats with hormones and anti biotic thrown in. Any of these could cause a problem.

No matter which version you like. It would appear that the DSM of our brains hasn't been completely masculinized. Or another way of looking at it was we may have been destined to be woman. But got hit with hormones and turned us partially into men.

Either way you look at this our condition is either natural, biological abnormality, or accidentally man made chemical mistake. It is a physical problem It is not mental.

[olga]

Kate & Samantha,

thank you both for your insights. I am still in limbo between denial and acceptance, and I think I’m someone who always needs some form of validation — WHY? Although I don’t like the thought of slapping a label onto myself (and others), it brings comfort to have some sort of “diagnosis”, a statement of “ah, there’s your problem!”…

I have just finished reading the entire thread about autogynophelia (http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=130722&page=5) and I’m more confused than before.

Transitioning is such a huge decision and I don’t want to make a mistake, I don’t want to go a route based on false hope or misinformation.

olga

[Rianna Humble]

I have just finished reading the entire thread about autogynophelia (http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=130722&page=5) and I’m more confused than before.

Transitioning is such a huge decision and I don’t want to make a mistake, I don’t want to go a route based on false hope or misinformation.

I can't blame you for feeling confused by the debate over autogynephilia, it seems to me that it is a minefield of half-baked hypotheses and other misconceptions. I don't doubt that some members of our community display some of the behaviour described by the good doctor who came up with this hypothesis, but he himself admitted that his ideas needed more research before they could become a valid scientific theory. My biggest problem with his hypothesis is that he tries to classify us all into homosexuals and paraphiliacs - I am neither, I'm just a woman born into a man's body.

I have to admit, I don't know how I came to be born in the wrong body, nor do I know why, but at least now that I have accepted that this is who I am, I can take steps to try to put things right.

I agree with you that transition is a major step to take, and you are right not to enter into it lightly. You are going about it the right way by working with a therapist, but in the end it should be your decision whether to go ahead or not.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

AGHHHHHH autogynephelia!!!

I'm in that thread...that word hurt me bad...and i won't shut up about it!!

that word is in our medical lexicon like its a proven thing!!
what's proven is that natal males get aroused at their own "dressing/transness" its quite common among us.. but what does it mean?? that's the problem, and the way its defined is just flat out wrong.

i let those feelings eat me alive for many years as i figured things out....i felt that those feelings eliminated the possibility that i was transsexual, which eliminated the possibility of ever transitioning, which eliminated my will to live...

now that i am well into transition, that all just makes me mad more than anything...

feel free to study it more, but IMHO its a waste of your time.

samantha i sure hope that i'm not a birth defect based on contamination of the environment...i like to think i'm a natural human variant...and the evidence is that we have been around since the dawn of time..

in any event, we just don't know for sure, and one of the many "gotcha's" in our situation is that we must all self diagnose, and we must all decide how to deal with our diagnosis...you don't really need permission, but then again neither did I, and i spent many years looking for permission
:hugs:

[noeleena]

Hi ,

Im going to throw a spanner in here, & when i sort it ill put a pic up . i have pics going back long before any chemicals were made . try 1860 s to 1890 s ,
& the pics are of two different women who you would swear where male . total all male from thier face pics wether they are dressed male or female .
they are women totaly women .
now that begs the ? of any out side interferance at all ,
So i thought id just throw that in .
& in passing what if you have 50 % of both , m & f . then what about your body,
a good ? then ,

...noeleena...

[CharleneT]

DES may explain a few folks with GID (they are just starting to study the male side of the history). I am a DES baby for example, not sure if I care if that was the cause of my issues. BUT there were many TS folks before that, and obviously after ;) As for the theories that sexual orientation is decided by a hormonal state at a certain time in gestation.... those are not yet proven. Few in fact believe it in the medical world. Sexual orientation is a very complex thing that may not even be fixed, let alone determined by a specific event. There is also some genetic evidence by the by, could be your DNA !

[Faith_G]

I am pretty sure environmental/processed food issues don't have much to do with why I am the way I am. I grew up in a house with a well, eating food my parents grew in a garden. I'm with Kaitlyn, it's just natural variation.

I think there are many reasons there seem to be more of us around these days. The internet is a big part of it, instead of being isolated in our own little puddles of confusion we now can learn about who we are, connect with others like us, and find resources to help us along our path. People like us used to think "I'm the only one who feels this way, I must just be crazy" and either lived in misery or found a bridge to jump off. Now we know we're not alone and that we have options. The point I guess I'm trying to make is that I don't think there are more TS people than there used to be, just more people transitioning.

[Sarah Doepner]

I had the discussion with myself and decided I wasn't T.S. but a crossdresser. So I still had to figure out the root of that issue, just for a little comfort if possible. After starting to accept the "contaminated by chemicals in the drinking water" story, I realized that it didn't work for me. First is the lack of these chemicals in the environment during earlier generations where crossdressing has been documented. Second, and this is just for me, I was born in a mountain community where the water was very pure, so no chance of any of the nasty stuff being there.

So it left me with the hormone mix in the womb. I'm wondering how stresses on the individual pregnant woman changes that mix. It's too late for me to ask my mother questions, she has been gone for more than 20 years now, so I'm left piecing together stories that I've heard. It was a stressful environment and during those early months following my conception it was the coldest winter on record and things were not easy. Is it possible this effected the hormone mix that washed over and through my little world? Maybe. Regardless, if that's the reason, I got enough to have a tick in my gender identity but not enough to flip my gender or sexual orientation.

As complex as human conception and the human organism is, it seems logical that a very minor push, early in the process can end up as significant by the time we are 20 to 50 years down the road. Particularly when we factor in the enormous rate of growth we go through, physically, intellectually and socially during those early years. If the answer is found in the womb, it may be something so small that it will be nearly undetectable. Maybe not, but I've stopped the questions for myself. I've fallen down this particular rabbit hole and need to pay attention to where I'm going now. I wish us all the best as we try to find comfort, acceptance and confidence as we move along.

[olga]

I have to admit, I don't know how I came to be born in the wrong body, nor do I know why, but at least now that I have accepted that this is who I am, I can take steps to try to put things right.


in any event, we just don't know for sure, and one of the many "gotcha's" in our situation is that we must all self diagnose, and we must all decide how to deal with our diagnosis...you don't really need permission, but then again neither did I, and i spent many years looking for permission
:hugs:

Oh these nagging doubts! I am not very good at the self-diagnosing thing. I excel in the second-guessing game, though!

I just feel so desperate lately because I need answers, but every bit of information I dig up and soak in brings up more questions!

I wish I could just say “what the heck, I just accept whatever I am today and live by it” as some apparently are capable of, but unfortunately that’s not how my brain works. I always second-guess every decision I make, and to be able to accept something I have to be absolutely sure that it is correct.

:sigh:
olga

[Rianna Humble]

I wish I could just say “what the heck, I just accept whatever I am today and live by it” as some apparently are capable of, but unfortunately that’s not how my brain works. I always second-guess every decision I make, and to be able to accept something I have to be absolutely sure that it is correct.

I find it admirable that you want to understand,but I believe that you self-awareness and understanding will grow if you learn to accept yourself. This doesn't have to be a major leap as in one day I'm fighting to be cisgendered, the next day I want GRS (slight exaggeration here), you can do it by stages.

Start by looking at the fact that you enjoy cross-dressing and ask yourself whether you can accept that this is part of you. There is plenty of evidence that cross-dressers have something built into them that makes them feel this way. If you can accept that part of you, I believe that you will find it easier to examine the next question.

Each of us is different and has different needs, do yours include any element of full-time dressing? If so, can you accept that? What do you have to do to meet that need?

Each time, you will grow as a person and also, IMNSHO grow in understanding of yourself.

I realise that my contribution might have made it seem as if this acceptance was easy for me - it wansn't! Perhaps I should have mentioned that I fought it all the way for over 48 years. Eventually, I ran out of reasons for not accepting that I am transgendered, but even then I did not want to accept I might be transsexual.

Never mind the desperate longing that I had been fighting for decades and never mind the dreams from my early childhood where I saw myself getting married as the bride (although I had no concept of gender reassignment at the age I had those dreams). At least I accepted I was TG, then came the next step - if I'm TG, what do I have to do to meet my needs?

Little by little, I have come to accept who I am and what that entails, but I have been dragged kicking and screaming all the way.

[SamanthaStMichaels]

Unfortunately no one can tell you that you are or you aren't.

AKKK Autogynophelia!!! Scratching the chalkboard! Samantha has now left the building. :D

Autogynophelia does not apply to me. As 5 year old little girl I didn't even know what being aroused was. It would be nice for us to get out of the DSM/mental illness issue so some serious research can begin. I think the U.S. is the only country that hasn't discovered anything related to us. With the exception of new angles for a mental disorder that only abuses us.

I think I'm gonna invent a mental illness for conservatives and write a paper up on it and make a name for myself. I mean they actually suffer from multi mental issues. You know many if not most of them suffer from mythomania, paranoia, ego-dystonic sexual orientation, and delusional disorder just to name a few. Many of our politician suffer from most of these and need to go to therapy. :D Not to mention their immoral behavior as of late with the adultery and paying for prostitution.

I am proud to be an abomination to god and have only one mental disorder! I'm light years ahead of any Conservative.

[olga]

I realise that my contribution might have made it seem as if this acceptance was easy for me - it wansn't! Perhaps I should have mentioned that I fought it all the way for over 48 years. Eventually, I ran out of reasons for not accepting that I am transgendered, but even then I did not want to accept I might be transsexual.
.

Rianna,

No, it didn’t. Please know that my comment about some apparently being capable of “just accepting whatever I am today” was NOT directed at you.

The questions you ask and points you make are very helpful. I know it’s always better to break down the big problems into small pieces, and you have just done this… Thank you!

olga