From bare thighs to slavery, in one thread

[DonniDarkness]

Conceptual Questions Raised by another thread:

If you and your SO have boundaries set to keep your relationship stable, why would either of you not have to account for crossing that line? OR Why would you feel you had to account for disrupting your relationships stability?

Why do you see compromise as a "setback" in your relationship?

How does consequence for your SO's hurtful actions turn into spousal abuse?

Why do many see consequence as a child/parent aspect of life?

What if these "rules" you broke were instilled by you? How would you feel? How would you think your SO would feel?

Do you think you should be able to do whatever you want, when ever you want, no matter who it effects, just because you feel it is important to you?

Why do you feel that if you compromise; you are cheating yourself out of something?

I write these questions in an attempt to keep Smiles thread from being hijacked further. We already know the story so hijack this one instead.

http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=132621

[TinaMc]

Depends how you think about yourself and your relationship. If you think you and your feelings/needs/wants are paramount then go for it, make it all about those things, but don't expect to stay in the relationship. If you value your relationship, compromise is pretty much key. I would think that in most cases our SOs would most likely (given the choice) rather us not CD, and that in giving us some leeway, any leeway, on this issue they are actually compromising their own needs/desires massively.

"Abuse" (obviously not the physical kind) can be all about emotional manipulation, and pushing boundaries to get what you want is essentially emotional manipulation. It would be nice to get everything you want, when you want it, and have no repercussions, but that's just egotistical BS really. Life is a balancing act...

I thought smile seemed very mature in realising she'd stepped over the line, there's not much else to say about it. A wig is just material stuff, that can be replaced, a good loving relationship is a lot harder to replace.

[RADER]

MissDonni:
Yes, my wife has set a few rules to my dressing; but they are practical ones.
1. No going out dresses, under dress OK with in reason.
To explain that, well I am 6'3" and go about 275 lbs. A big guy to say
the least. I can not ware heels, do to my poor, weaken ankles, and the
loss of sense of balance in my feet.
2. No shaving of hair. Now I look like a grizzly bear, Hair, real dark and thick
all over my back and chest, arms, legs etc. I do not think there is
enough Burma Shave in the U.S. to get the job done.
Now my wife lets me dress when I want, like doing the house work, cooking,
Laundry etc. My wife is partly handy caped, so she doesn't walk around much.
Her bad sense of balance keeps her to a walker, and Cane when she does
move around the house. She did Buy me a swim dress to do house work in,
Said it looked better than the maid's outfit I have.
I love my wife, and the rules are simple, and the fact that I want to stay
in the proverbial closet, Thats OK with me.
Rader :)

[Traci Elizabeth]

I think this is a matter of the depth of your relationship and the depth of your needs.

NOTHING is engraved in stone no matter how willingly one went into the agreement. Life changes. Circumstances change. Needs change. We grow. We mature. We get to the point we realize our own immortality and seek our true self.

In that process, hopefully the love of your SO will see through her fears and come to accept your needs as a real expression of who you are and have been all these year and her love will carry you forward with support and understanding.

If not, then you need to do your own soul searching. AND it is NOT selfish to do what is RIGHT for you as a human being.

Sometimes even loving couples have to set their compromises aside for one or the other.

Obviously, none of this is easy or should be taken lightly or fool-heartedly.

[kimdl93]

Lot of questions, but here's my take on them. (Remember people, there is no "right" answer)

1. If you and your SO have boundaries set to keep your relationship stable, why would either of you not have to account for crossing that line? OR Why would you feel you had to account for disrupting your relationships stability?

Every relationship has boundaries, some explicit and some understood. And of course there is accountability if one crosses a boundary. However, there is also an underlying affection between us, so "accountability" most often is simply acknowledging and apologizing when either of us does something that in some way is hurtful or offensive to the other.

Also, I don't really buy the idea that realtionships must be "stable". I believe that human dynamics make that almost impossible. We all change over time - for better or worse. A sustainable relationship adjusts to that change.

2. Why do you see compromise as a "setback" in your relationship?
I don't - if someone sees compromise as a setback then they aren't mature enough to be in a relationship.

3. How does consequence for your SO's hurtful actions turn into spousal abuse?

Consequences are not abuse in and of themselves. However, I would contend that any action that is deliberately intended to wound a person physically or emotionally is an abusive act.


4. Why do many see consequence as a child/parent aspect of life?

That's the way many individuals, particularly rather authoritarian mindsets, see the world. For example, maybe daddy hollererdat them (or worse) when they made a mistake. Its one way of learning, certainly. Make a mistake and you'll be punished. Of course, there are more constructive and non-hurtful ways of helping children learn...

I also think people can desire retaliation rather than resolution. Simply expressing disappointment and asking for changes may not be emotionally gratifying to individuals who demand punishment for any transgression.

5. What if these "rules" you broke were instilled by you? How would you feel? How would you think your SO would feel?

If I resolve to do something, then fail I feel bad enough myself. If my failure of resolve or discipline hurts my SO, then I'd feel bad about that too. either way, the right course is to figure out how the situation can be resolved and move on with life.

6. Do you think you should be able to do whatever you want, when ever you want, no matter who it effects, just because you feel it is important to you?

No, of course not. A mature and reasonable human being certainly realizes that you can't always get what you want...but if you try some times you just might find, you get what you need.

7. Why do you feel that if you compromise; you are cheating yourself out of something?

maybe more correctly the question would be "do you feel that compromise is cheating oneself?".

Answer - of course not. I suppose there are sociopaths out there who don't feel any limits on themselves, but one would hope that any rational human would realize we make lots of compromises in order to be parts of society.

[Nicole Erin]

Donni, cause you are an adult, unless she is paying your bills, you don't have to abide by "rules".

Don't get into the habit of asking "Mother many I?"

Stand up for yourself cause once someone learns they can walk all over you, it doesn't stop

[sissystephanie]

Donni, cause you are an adult, unless she is paying your bills, you don't have to abide by "rules".

Don't get into the habit of asking "Mother many I?"

Stand up for yourself cause once someone learns they can walk all over you, it doesn't stop

As an Old Time CD, I will have to disagree with at least part of Nicole's discourse.

When you are an Adult, you definitley have to abide by "Rules!" Regardless of who is paying the bill!! Particularly if they are rules in your own home set jointly by you and your wife/SO! If you don't like them, then why did you set them?

If you are a grown-up, you certainly don't ask, "Mother may I?" You may ask your wife or SO, "May I?", because that is the right thing to do if you want to do something that has not alread been discussed! You are an individual and so is she, but it takes the TWO of you to form a lasting relationship.

Everyone has to stand up for themselves, as Nicole said. She is right about that part, if someone finds they can walk all over you they will.

I told my late wife about my CD'ing before we married and she accepted me with a few rules! I knew exactly what they were, and agreed to them. We both lived by those rules for the almost 50 years we had together! It never hurt either of us to do so!

[Lorileah]

interesting that we say "make rules" and then say "but not those rules". In reading the original post that Donni wants to preserve, I do think there was a lot of over reaction. One thing tat really concerns me is that they are both nurses which means they should be a little more open minded about how people live their lives. She is going to find in the health field that a lot of men shave body hair (not just some blokes chests...where did that even come from?) and a lot of women Don't. This isn't a you will be outted when they see your legs thing. Some "blokes" don't even have leg hair to start. So the reaction was over done IMHO. That said, we all have our standards. I like long hair on women. BUT if my wife (or now SO GF whatever) decided to get a buzz cut, I may not like it but as pointed out it is her hair and she is the one who has to deal with it. I am not in love with her hair, or her eyebrows or anything else she can easily alter. For that matter I am not in love with any specific body part or accessory. If your relationship is based on how woolly you are, or you have blonde hair, or you wear red polish then you be in the wrong relationship. How many times does it have to be said? This isn't love it is lust and possession. If you are in love with an image...you are in serious trouble from the start because no one stays the same. Seriously? Are so many people that shallow?

I can tell you that if I am pushed, I push back harder. For years and years we have heard that "it is your body if you say NO that means no, don't let someone make you anything you don't want to be." That works both ways folks. When one person makes demands on how another looks, that will soon be toxic. Really? Do you love the person or the way he presents? Do you love the personality or the fact that he can crush beer cans and rides a motorcycle? Do you know how many people I have seen who married because she was a size 2 and pert then divorced because she didn't stay that way (and similar on the woman's side)?

Life is short people. Don't make it more complicated than it already is. They don't give you re-rides. As they say don't sweat the little things and it is all little things. Treating your spouse (SO whatever) like a child and controlling them can only lead to resentment. Look in the eyes, not at the hair.

All that fell in deaf ears I am sure because when you are young you don't see the person you see the image.

[docrobbysherry]

The title of your thread REALLY piqued my interest!!!:D

And then, turns out it's only about-------:sad: