Taxonomy

[CherryZips]

I guess it's been discussed before but if you could start from scratch how would you label the trans community identities?

I mean so many of the simplest identity problems seem to come from terminology. Is there enough of an overlap between transsexuals, drag queens, fetishists etc to consider it one group? I think there is but it might be handy if there were sharper terms so that every introduction doesn't need to be hedged with so many words.

It a bit of a dream but the gay community has lots of slang for different sets and they leak out to wider society.

Just a passing thought.

[Renee_E]

I like to think of myself as just me. I leave the labeling to those that don't think I fit into there group.

[Deborah Jane]

Good on clothes
Bad on people

:hugs: Deborah Jane [unlabelled]

[ReineD]

Here's one way (http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2057172&postcount=75) of looking at it.

[CherryZips]

@ReineD

ah yes that's interesting. Whats missing I think are the attractions, who they desire to be with.

[Rianna Humble]

I do like Reine's venn diagramme and don't agree that it lacks the attractions. Unless you are saying that I would be more or less of a person depending on whether I like men, women, both or neither.

Who we are neither defines nor is defined by who we like to be with.

I also agree with Debs that labels are great on clothing or on parcels but less use on people.

[ReineD]

ah yes that's interesting. Whats missing I think are the attractions, who they desire to be with.

Sexual preference is separate from gender ID. They can desire to be with any member of any group or combination of groups. The possible pairs would be too many to list outside of a mathematical equation.

[Sarah Doepner]

I think about it and get confused and frustrated. There are so many possible variations and shadings that I've realized it's something meant for better minds than the one I'm using. It's the same as attempting to discover the reason behind what I do and how I feel. I've kind of given up, accepted that like Alice I've fallen down the rabbit hole and need to keep my feet under me, my hands on my skirt to keep it out of my face and stay alert. If I end up with an answer, great, but if I don't that's okay too.

That being said, I also believe that time and effort in finding our place and doing the self discovery is very valuable if we are to grow as individuals. Without that we spend our time questioning ourselves, wondering about our motivations, feeling inferior and/or guilty and not growing. If we try to build a life on a poor foundation it can crumble and fall. The effort in coming up with the taxonomy or our possible origins is building that foundation.

Good luck and if you come up with an answer that works for you, please share it.

[Lorileah]

I find that I only need labels when I am trying to describe what I am to the uninformed which of course leads to explaining how the labels differ which leads to a look of total confusion on the questioners part which usually leads to them walking away ever more confused and with the same preformed opinion they had when they asked the question. So in the long run I just tilt my head and say "thanks for asking...I am me. Do you like the look?" Where upon they they say "so you gay or what?"

[JulieK1980]

I think its just an exercise in frustration to try to label all the "groups" There are as many variances as there are people.

[Rianna Humble]

I think its just an exercise in frustration to try to label all the "groups" There are as many variances as there are people.

You sure there are as many people as variations? :heehee:

[ReineD]

I think its just an exercise in frustration to try to label all the "groups" There are as many variances as there are people.

I dunno. :) There are certainly just a few broader gender ID groups, with perhaps some spillover into other groups. I compare it to telling someone my race and ethnicity. I am primarily caucasian of French origin, with some ancestry from a few other countries and also some native American mixed in (I think). But I still say I am caucasian.

My sexual orientation is entirely separate, but even then, this falls into only 5 possible categories. I primarily either like men, women, both or a combination, myself, or none.

It's not that complicated. :)

[Ellen James]

Human beings are hardwired to want to label things and then group the labeled things on the basis of some supposed common characteristic. It's a truth even reflected in the Bible when in Genesis, Adam is charged with naming everything.

Definition of terms is also a fundamental first step in the scientific process that has so advanced human knowledge and understanding over the last several centuries.

But let's leave all of that for the anthropologists, scientists, therapists, psychologists, etc - oh, and by the way, the racists and other haters who use labels to divide us and set us against each other.

I spent a lot of time living on several different continents, speaking a couple of new languages, and becoming aquainted with lots of people of different backgrounds. A couple of rules I've picked up include, you let people tell you what they wish to be called and you let them explain who and if necessary what they are. The only label I need to know is human being and whether or not they wish to be friendly.

[docrobbysherry]

I used mostly birds that had been hit by cars.

But, they never looked very realistic when I finished. Similar to how MANY feel Sherry looks!:brolleyes:

Sherry doesn't mind WHAT u call her! Even "bird" is OK!:)
As long as u leave OFF, "brain" afterwards!:sad:

[carhill2mn]

"Labels" are tricky! They often mean different things to different people. Is there one general overall label? Perhaps; it depends upon where you are. Many people use the term "transgendered" to encompass quite a few groups of people. Even within the "commuity" there are differing opinions as to what a label means. I think the more important thing is for you to learn to accept yourself as you are regardless of what the lable is.

[Tranny Tee]

I have posted many times that each one of us is an individual who has his or her own needs, desires and motivations for crossdressing. It would be interesting to describe the variations among us but it could very quickly become an exercise in frustration. For example think about how we treat body hair. Some of us have full beards while others are completely shaved whle others only shave their legs in the winter. The variations are many and that is merely for how we treat body hair.

[JulieK1980]

I dunno. :) There are certainly just a few broader gender ID groups, with perhaps some spillover into other groups. I compare it to telling someone my race and ethnicity. I am primarily caucasian of French origin, with some ancestry from a few other countries and also some native American mixed in (I think). But I still say I am caucasian.

My sexual orientation is entirely separate, but even then, this falls into only 5 possible categories. I primarily either like men, women, both or a combination, myself, or none.

It's not that complicated. :)

I'm certain, there are a few broad brush strokes that would encompass many transgendered and crossdressers, as you can with any other segment of the population. Not much different than categorizing people by ethnicity as you mentioned. But it would become very difficult to try to categorize into subgroups, as no matter what you use as a defining measure, you'd have an exponential number of people that fall into one category, but have attributes to another subcategory. The question lies in; where do you draw the line, and how many exceptions can one person have before they get pushed into a different group? This is why I say its an exercise in frustration.

Ultimately we have already a scientifically accepted categorization, (which is already insufficient, and has too many discrepancies IMO)

Transgendered- Those that feel they were born as the opposite gender physically than mentally.
Crossdressers- Those that feel a prevalent urge to present as the opposite gender, (but are otherwise content with their biological gender of birth
Transvestites- This officially contains drag queens that crossdress for entertainment, as well as any variation of the two categories above.
Fetishistic Crossdressers- who dress for sexual arousal.

(my apologies if I missed any groups)

These are VERY broad strokes of the brush. Just myself can see that none of those definitions fully defines me, and I daresay I've never met any crossdresser that doesn't see examples in themselves of all the other groups.

I'm not even sure that fetishistic crossdressing should have it's own grouping, as most psychological evidence shows that all of us go through a stage of dressing for sexual arousal, usually during puberty.

The other issue I have with categorizing (outside of the sheer complexity of it) is that humanity usually uses categories as a way to create a class system. I've even seen examples of this on this forum, with some (not all) transgendered individuals who feel "above" just a mere crossdresser. Thus anything outside of medical necessity to typecast I see as dangerous and divisive.

I also wholeheartedly agree with you that sexual orientation is entirely seperate from gender identity. Otherwise we would see trends of sexual orientation with the different groups, and as far as I can tell our orientation is as diverse as any other segment of the population.


Just my two cents... :)

[Rianna Humble]

I'm certain, there are a few broad brush strokes that would encompass many transgendered and crossdressers, as you can with any other segment of the population. Not much different than categorizing people by ethnicity as you mentioned. But it would become very difficult to try to categorize into subgroups, as no matter what you use as a defining measure, you'd have an exponential number of people that fall into one category, but have attributes to another subcategory. The question lies in; where do you draw the line, and how many exceptions can one person have before they get pushed into a different group? This is why I say its an exercise in frustration.

Ultimately we have already a scientifically accepted categorization, (which is already insufficient, and has too many discrepancies IMO)

Transgendered- Those that feel they were born as the opposite gender physically than mentally.
Crossdressers- Those that feel a prevalent urge to present as the opposite gender, (but are otherwise content with their biological gender of birth
Transvestites- This officially contains drag queens that crossdress for entertainment, as well as any variation of the two categories above.
Fetishistic Crossdressers- who dress for sexual arousal.

(my apologies if I missed any groups)

These are VERY broad strokes of the brush. Just myself can see that none of those definitions fully defines me, and I daresay I've never met any crossdresser that doesn't see examples in themselves of all the other groups.

I'm not even sure that fetishistic crossdressing should have it's own grouping, as most psychological evidence shows that all of us go through a stage of dressing for sexual arousal, usually during puberty.

The other issue I have with categorizing (outside of the sheer complexity of it) is that humanity usually uses categories as a way to create a class system. I've even seen examples of this on this forum, with some (not all) transgendered individuals who feel "above" just a mere crossdresser. Thus anything outside of medical necessity to typecast I see as dangerous and divisive.

Hi Jody,

I think your definition of transgendered is closer to transsexuals since i have come to realise that transgendered is the umbrella term that encompases all of us be we (to ue a phrase from another thread "just a cross-dresser", be we people born in the wrong body - or any point in between. We are all transgender because we cross the "normal" borders of gender.

It is an unfortunate fact that in every group of individuals there will be some who see themselves as more special than others. I don't believe that my gender dysphoria makes me any more special than someone who dresses because they like the feel of the clothes but wants to remain with their birth gender. Neither do I think that that person is any more special than me.

I may be naive in believing that we should concentrate more on what unites us than on our differences, but that in every case the answer to the age old question "Am I my brother's keeper" should be "YES I AM if she needs me to be".

Sorry, I may have strayed from the original point of taxonomy, so to bring myself back on subject, I guess I would class us roughly as follows:

Human Beings
|
|
Transgendered (aka trans people)

[CherryZips]

I expect finer terms will emerge over time that people are comfortable with. Just like they have elsewhere.

[lisa marseau]

What is the deal with labels? Must everything be so well defined? We are human. There is nothing more (lack of better words) grey then the human. There is no black and white. Labels are better put on the things we buy and not people. imho. :2c: