Disrespect to the public?

[Cheryl James]

In the past week I have tried to push my personal envelope by shopping (browsing, really) department stores, book stores, and window-shopping in a mall. No purchases, yet, as I am still too nervous about that. By doing these things I am, selfishly, trying to meet my need, i.e, the need to be out in public presenting in my preferred gender. What troubles me, though, is the concern that by putting myself out in the unsuspecting general public, am I violating their ability (or right) to choose whether they have to see or deal with a CD? Or, whether they have to explain to their kid what just happened? I guess I am hoping that most of you will tell me to worry about something else, but I am looking for honesty.

[suzypier]

We are in 2010 but I believe that general people still acting like 1910 !

[JulieK1980]

I honestly don't believe you are violating their "rights" at all, any more than it violates people's rights to see a homeless person on the street.

For it to be a violation of rights, implies there is a victim. There is no victim in this instance. As for explaining to their children, well all I can say to that is, they should be educating their kids to be tolerant of others anyway. And I assure you the vast majority of kids see much more questionable content on t.v. anyway.

For this to really be an issue, would require an assumption that wearing clothing designed for the opposite gender is wrong, and I don't believe it is. Otherwise, all women that wear pants are violating peoples rights to not see them. I'm fairly certain that most women would agree that wearing pants does not infringe upon others rights.

[Tamara Croft]

I really think you are overthinking this. You shouldn't be worrying about what other people think or how children will react, seriously, it isn't your problem. Just go out, have fun.. and Jody is right, parents should be educating their children how to be tollerant, if they aren't, well then it's still their problem ;)

[kellycan27]

I wasn't around in 1910, but I don't think you have anything to worry about.
It takes all kinds make this wondeful world go round. You have the perfect right to a part of it. Good luck and good shopping.

Kel

[suzypier]

I really think you are overthinking this. You shouldn't be worrying about what other people think or how children will react, seriously, it isn't your problem. Just go out, have fun.. and Jody is right, parents should be educating their children how to be tollerant, if they aren't, well then it's still their problem ;)

I agree with you at 100%

[tinalynn]

The only "rights" anyone has are laid out in the Constitution, and I don't recall one of them being 'free from seeing a CD'er'. That term ('right') is thrown around too freely... And you're not violating anyones trust or personal space, either - you're in public places! And who cares if someone's kid sees you? God forbid a parent have to teach the kid something...

Relax and enjoy yourself. The only time you need to worry about crap like that is if you get into some situation with ignorant trash all around...

[t-girlxsophie]

this is the 21st century i would think ppl have more to worry than seeing a Crossdresser in the street.we have probably already been described enough in our lifes as being selfish without telling ourselves we are through the mere fact that we exercise our right to walk the streets and live our lives

[pj]

No one has the "right" to be completely unoffended or untroubled in public. I see plenty that offends me every day. But that's my problem. And if someone doesn't like what they see when they walk past you, that's their problem.

As for their kids, that's their problem too. I don't believe in trying to create a society that is suitable for every 3 year old. If you don't want your kids to see anything that you don't approve of, keep them at home.

[Shelly Preston]

I dont think its disrespectful to the public

Most people will ignore you. Those you have to deal with in shops etc, will have had some sort of diversity training.

I have recently hear a neighbour of a friend of mine was asking questions. I am quite sure she will say hello if we happen to meet. This will give me a chance to educate another person :D

The only time you can expect trouble is if you dress in something that is not right for that occasion

[Sammy777]

What troubles me, though, is the concern that by putting myself out in the unsuspecting general public, am I violating their ability (or right) to choose whether they have to see or deal with a CD?
Or, whether they have to explain to their kid what just happened?

This is just my personal opinion coming from not only a TS but just a person in general.

[edited, sorry :)] Short answer: Frack'em :lol2:

Long answer:
Being "different" isn't a crime.
Be you a CD, TS, biker, goth, emo, headbanger, skater, rapper, gangsta, gay, lesbian, physically deformed, handicapped, a leper and so on and so on. lol.

Ohhhh my virgin shielded eyes can't take it! -Grow up!
What will I tell the children? Ahhhh Try the truth!

OK - Me walking through a mall blasting death-metal-gangasta-rap is "imposing" on the people around me.

OK - Me walking through the same mall dressed just like 90+% of the other woman there minding my business, shopping, whatever is not "imposing" on anybodies "personal space"!

Now of course walking around wearing a ball gown and or a "I heart Hilter" t-shirt or just your underwear and a cowboy hat carrying a guitar will get you attention, but [here in the US] you have the right to be different or a complete assh*le as long as your not actually breaking any laws. :)

Will doing any of the above "offend" some, of course it will.
But hey, I can't stand the "tan pants blue shirt" look, but Im not running home crying every time I see it. :lol2:

For me, personally, being a TS, I really do not have a choice.
It is not that I can't drab it up if I need to.
It is that I no longer really can or want to. That part of me is gone.
Part of, and probably the hardest part, of being a girl is knowing good or bad, day or night, there is no more room for "days off" if I'm just not "feeling it".

So if I'm not looking/feeling my best one day and someone feels "offended" by me........
Well see the "short answer" above because I have just as much right to live my life as that person does.

[Faith_G]

There is a heart-breaking amount of self-loathing going on in your post. :hugs: It's OK for you to be the woman you need to be. Love her, she is you. Don't be ashamed, go about your business as the woman you are and everyone will be OK. :hugs:

[Sally24]

I have to agree with Sammy..... As long as you're not wearing fetish wear (laytex, maids outfit, hooker clothes) there is no reason you should worry. You're not going to their kids school or jumping around on their front lawn. You have every right to be there and go about your business. Enjoy yourself!

[kristinacd55]

I have one thing to say Cheryl, the heck with the public. You go girl!! :heehee:
It's all about how YOU feel going out in public....

[Nicole Erin]

...or jumping around on their front lawn. You have every right to be there and go about your business. Enjoy yourself!
HA HA HA! :D

Yeah that would create a scene no matter how you are dressed.
But if you dress like your profile photo, that is presentable.

And yes, there will be the haters or people who laugh, I deal with it on a semi-regular basis, and I don't dress "fetish" style. Of course I don't have the figure to dress like "Charlotte the harlet" either.

If it makes you feel more comfy, then for your first few outings, maybe wear slacks with a blouse and made up instead of trying a skirt.

[Kayla Shadows]

Honestly,if we have to put up with them,they can put up with us.I'm sure there are some that are offended by their intolerance and way of being so easily offended.As long as you are appropriately dressed for the situation there should be no issue.There are those who want to play the victim in dealing with us but let them.I can be offended by the way they treat me,but i can also chose to laugh and let them continue to be the victim and not me.To me it seems like a weakness and thats just not me.

[bianca66]

I doubt any children young enough will even notice anything other than a woman...

I did have some teen boys figure I was a guy and told their girlfriends. The girls followed me around a bit and stayed near the front of the stores that I went into and pretended to look at items. I walked by them to go to the next store, winked and smile...They giggled and then took off once they knew I was onto them...I don't think that I tramatized them or they will need a talk with their parents.

[Shelby]

There are people out there doing all sorts of things that offend me and not one of them is a crossdresser. I have seen a perfectly physically healthy person with handicapped plate park in the that spot and I question why they need to. I had to sell cigarettes to a woman using her EBT Card at 2am bragging to her date that living in MN is great because we give her more money then other states and thinking she wants another kid to make more money off of us taxpayers. I have seen obese people who can hardly breathe complain about not large enough seats at an Auditorium. I have had to tell adults that they can't smoke or drink on school property because it is against the law only to be told that they pay taxes and it is their right to. People have sued McDonald's because there was no warning on the coffee cups telling them it is hot and not to drive with it resting between their legs (She won, by the way).

If you can walk out of the house with confidence and few people even notice who you really are, then you are by far the least of anyone's concerns.

[Stephenie S]

Faith wrote:

There is a heart-breaking amount of self-loathing going on in your post. It's OK for you to be the woman you need to be. Love her, she is you. Don't be ashamed, go about your business as the woman you are and everyone will be OK.

Listen to this Cheryl. It is good advice.

[Kelly DeWinter]

What troubles me, though, is the concern that by putting myself out in the unsuspecting general public, am I violating their ability (or right) to choose whether they have to see or deal with a CD?


Chery, no more then what you have to put up with by what they wear. Transgendered people are here. We allways have been.

The only difference between yesterday, today and tomorrow is what we wear.

Kelly

[Deborah Jane]

We put up with them, so it's only right we return the favour :)

[sissystephanie]

I have one thing to say Cheryl, the heck with the public. You go girl!! :heehee:
It's all about how YOU feel going out in public....

Kristina said it perfectly! The only "rights" that matter are yours, Cheryl! If you feel like going out in public dressed, then do so. As long as you are obeying the laws in your locale, you have the right to do as YOU wish. Not what other people might want you to do. Since my wife, who always did my makeup and fixed my wig, passed away I go out dressed but looking exactly like the man I am! Maybe some people don't like the way I look, but that is their problem, not mine! I don't care, and neither should you.:hugs:

[Rianna Humble]

What troubles me, though, is the concern that by putting myself out in the unsuspecting general public, am I violating their ability (or right) to choose whether they have to see or deal with a CD?


There is a heart-breaking amount of self-loathing going on in your post. :hugs: It's OK for you to be the woman you need to be. Love her, she is you. Don't be ashamed, go about your business as the woman you are and everyone will be OK. :hugs:

:iagree: You really need to accept yourself for who you are - a valuable human being.

Since you talk of rights, let's consider the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, if you are not free to go out, then someone is violating your rights under articles 1, 3, 6, 13 (i), 20 (i) and 29 (ii).

All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.

Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person.

Everyone has the right to recognition everywhere as a person before the law.

Everyone has the right to freedom of movement and residence within the borders of each state.

Everyone has the right to freedom of peaceful assembly and association

In the exercise of his rights and freedoms, everyone shall be subject only to such limitations as are determined by law solely for the purpose of securing due recognition and respect for the rights and freedoms of others and of meeting the just requirements of morality, public order and the general welfare in a democratic society.
-----

What you are doing in going out does not contravene ANY of these fundamental human rights.

[Cassandra Lynn]

Dreaming of a day when the "educated" children are grown and the world is a more tolerant place, and if it takes us being out there helping it to happen, then let it be!
Get out there with your head held high Cheryl, smile look them in the eyes and say "Hello, have a nice day". Looking forward to the day when i can. mj (Cassie)

[AKAMichelle]

There is a very simple way to think about it.

That person who is extremely obese. Does that person infringe on your rights when you have to look at them? They are just being who they are and how is that so bad.

What about the person is so skinny they look like a tooth pick. Does that person infringe on your rights when you have to look at them? They are just being who they are and how is that so bad.

What about that person who is missing a leg?

See we all are different and have things which we can't necessarily help. That is the way we are and our appearance whether we end up looking like a model or the ugly duckling isn't infringing on anybody's rights. You are who are and you should be proud that you were given this responsibility. Yes that's right a responsibility. You have the unqiue opportunity to show the general public that you are a sweet, kind person. A person who they could be friends with if they would look past their hangups if they have any.

Go buy something in the mall. If it is just a drink. Then maybe some dinner in the fast food court. You have the right to be there. Quit being intimidated by them. Have fun or you will wake up with a pound of regrets when this little vacation ends.

P.S. I bought panties in a Sears store when I was 18 years old in drab. If I can do that, then maybe you can buy something while dressed.

[Rianna Humble]

I bought panties in a Sears store when I was 18 years in drab.

You were in drab for 18 years? :eek:

[Kate Simmons]

Disrespect? Nah! Courage? Yes! Going out en femme in public takes more guts than posting an en femme picture on a CD forum. I just love the logic around here sometimes.:battingeyelashes::)

[Fab Karen]

If some people have a problem with their children learning about the real world, they can close themselves off in a cult compound.
You're doing nothing wrong

[Sarah Doepner]

Cheryl, let me join in with the others and assure you that so long as you don't call out Fire in a crowded theater (or Sale in a crowded Mall), you should be just fine. I see people who wear shirts with offensive slogans all the time but have had to learn they need to be ignored. You have the right to go about your business in a lawful manner regardless of what gender you are presenting. I also agree that if you are dressed tastefully like in your avatar, the attention you will attract will be positive.

[bredalee25]

Persanally I don't worry about what people are going to tell there kids about CD's. My motto is if you don't like the way I look then look the other way. If these people want there kids growing up being ignorant to there world and the different people who walk around in the world so be it.

If I had kids how would I explain why the person across the way is morbidly obese yet those who are have the right to walk around this world just as we CD's do

I'd spend less time freting over these issues and worry more about how you dress act and present your prefered gender image.:2c:

[Toni_Lynn]

I understand what you are saying Cheryl, and I think it gets down to this (and I may get flamed a bit for it), if you are going out and blending in with every other woman out there, then you are in no way showing disrespect to the public. On the other hand, as Sally said,if one goes out in fetishistic wear, with the intent to shock, then that is a whole other matter that I feel show disrespect for others, for us as gender-folk, and for women.

Here's a similar situation. Went shopping with my wife today. Was in boy mode, wearing a kilt. That poses a situation because I wanted to buy some panties and a three pack of sports bras. So, what is someone likely to see - a guy in what they believe is a skirt definitely not dressed like the men here in Hicksburgh, buying bras and panties. Out of respect for my wife, others who wear a kilt, and families, I had my wife pick out what I needed in panties and bras.

Of course, I did have 2 people give me very positive comments about my kilt, and overheard two children ask their mom 'why is that man wearing a skirt', only to have them be told that it was a kilt and lots of men wear them. Between you and me, I much rather have that sort of thing be explained to a child than a parent have to explain why, 'is that man wearing a hot pink mini skirt and nothing else but a bra'

Huggles

Toni-Lynn

[DonniDarkness]

First, right off the bat, Ms. Rianna is a true scholar for this educated post:


All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.

Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person.

Everyone has the right to recognition everywhere as a person before the law.

Everyone has the right to freedom of movement and residence within the borders of each state.

Everyone has the right to freedom of peaceful assembly and association

Second, I shop in drab all the time, for girls clothes....walk in, smile, go look or try on what you like, decide on your purchase, walk up to the sales associate at the counter, smile again, (most common question: Did you find what you were looking for?....your response: Yes, thank you), Money is green and cards are valid, they ring it up, put in a bag, you say "thank you", then walk out....oh and dont forget to smile....

If your honest and dont skulk about, no one will care at all. Ive proved that to myself while shopping in drab.

I even got "called out" last week in a bealls outlet i frequent, and i just smiled/blushed, and went on about shopping. They dont care, and if they do its because they are just curious

Shop freely,
-Donni-

[AliceJaneInNewcastle]

I have to agree with most of what's been said before. We are only offensive to people if they have trained to be bigoted, and have been taught to be offended by us.


I doubt any children young enough will even notice anything other than a woman...
I disagree. A lot of younger children will read a transgender person unless they are very passable. It isn't a negative though. In most cases they are interested or curious, and haven't been trained to be bigoted by adults yet, so more often than not they'll simply smile, play peek-a-boo, etc.

I had such an experience in a supermarket last year, when I stopped in on the way home from dinner out and was slightly over dressed for shopping. A girl of about 8 watched me walking along an aisle and smiled as I walked past and, of course, I smiled back. She then proceeded to hang around at the back end of the aisles, ducking into each aisle I walked along until I looked at her and smiled, then she ducked out of sight.

There was no negativity in her behaviour.

[Frédérique]

What troubles me, though, is the concern that by putting myself out in the unsuspecting general public, am I violating their ability (or right) to choose whether they have to see or deal with a CD? Or, whether they have to explain to their kid what just happened?

I think about these issues myself, mainly because I don’t wish to bother anyone. Striding forth with unconscious bravery is not my style – I’m always thinking about the feelings of others, even though I feel quite “special” being a crossdresser, unique and rare as it is. My conscience gets in the way quite often, and I struggle to overcome it…:sad:


I honestly don't believe you are violating their "rights" at all, any more than it violates people's rights to see a homeless person on the street.

There are no such things as “rights.” They were made up by people to gain control (and wield power) over other people. Thus, you’re free to make up your own “rights,” for whatever reason…


For it to be a violation of rights, implies there is a victim. There is no victim in this instance. As for explaining to their children, well all I can say to that is, they should be educating their kids to be tolerant of others anyway. And I assure you the vast majority of kids see much more questionable content on t.v. anyway.

The child will not get an education in regards to tolerance unless there is something he or she sees that will require an explanation, i.e. a crossdresser in public. Let’s hope that the “teacher” is without prejudice, otherwise the whole idea of teaching tolerance is out the window. How many parents or guardians are qualified to deal with questions of transgender? If the child gets the wrong answer, he or she becomes the (innocent) victim…


For this to really be an issue, would require an assumption that wearing clothing designed for the opposite gender is wrong, and I don't believe it is. Otherwise, all women that wear pants are violating peoples rights to not see them. I'm fairly certain that most women would agree that wearing pants does not infringe upon others rights.

I assume you mean if the woman is wearing male pants, and people can tell the difference at a distance? Otherwise, your example doesn’t make any sense. A woman wearing women’s pants is not a display of crossdressing…:straightface:

[JulieK1980]

If you go back about 75 years, women were not allowed to wear pants for any reason. So yes, I do believe it to be crossdressing, its just now acceptable. Pants prior to then were strictly male attire, and in many western civilizations a woman caught wearing pants could have been imprisoned, if not outright killed. Sort of how we would be treated for wearing a skirt in many of the less "free" societies, that don't have the rights that you claim don't exist.

As for the rights part, I have to disagree as well, as rights were not created to enslave people, rights were created to empower the people, and keep that power with them. Yes you are correct they are not a tangible thing that you can touch, but that makes them no less real. Sometimes ideas are much stronger than any physical force. Just ask an African American that grew up in the 60's. Or a woman that grew up in the early 20's.

[msginaadoll]

Well Cheryl, the way I look at it.... First I try to dress nice as well as appropriate for the situation so that I dont come across as a circus freak or that much of an oddity. Second I try to present myself in a pleasant or non- threatening manner. In some ways it is education, I may be the first transgender person they have ever seen or met other than the weirdos on Jerry Springer, etc. Lastly I do believe most people are so busy with there life they ignore you.

[Jezebella]

It seems to me that most of the population is walking around at any given moment totally oblivious to the rest of the people around them, too distracted by the tech gadget in their hand to even make eye contact with the cashier let alone pay attention to the purchases of the person in front of them.

[BRANDYJ]

I don't think I'd call it disrespect for the public. That to me is something I see way to often in public places by mainly teens and young adults. They use foul language loud enough for a mother, her children and everyone else to hear a few tables away. Now that is disrespect in the worst kind to me. That is where I agree, people don't care. They don't care who they offend, or the children they teach to be as disrespectful and just plain tacky.
I do not go out in public since I am one of those that does care what others think of me. I do not want to hear the laughs, the jokes and insults. I don't even want to see the strange, shocked or gasping looks I think I might get. I am smart enough to know I don't pass and to me I'd be out of place to take my cross dressing public. I always worry that It would make some people uncomfortable to be around a crossdresser and not know how to deal with it. Yes, I care about embarrassing other people or making them feel uncomfortable. Sorry, I don't subscribe to the "it's their problem not mine" thing about what I do in public. There's a thing about being considerate, sensible and to conduct yourself in a way as to not draw attention to yourself and risk making others feel uncomfortable. In a way I admire those that are more brave then me. I even envy the I don't care what people think mindset. But it's simply not me.

Worst are those that are what I call fetish CD's that dress for the sexual thrill alone. And they wear whorish looking garments that are inappropriate for even a GG to wear in most public places. They give us all a bad name. For those of you that are 95% passable and can go about your day and not be noticed or made by 95% of the people you are in contact with, again, I envy you and congratulate you for at least presenting as a normal everyday woman out and about.
If you are not passable, I say stay home. It all goes back to what I and most people might consider good taste.

So for me it's not so much as respect for the public, but perhaps more about self respect.

[StaceyJane]

I do worry about offending families. I would really hate to be using the women's restroom if a little girl came in.
I know I have the right but still...

[Megan_Girl]

I will have to agree - your over thinking this.

1. People are self-absorbed. They're more concerned with themselves than they are with the people around them. Unless you in a hot pick mini and tube top theres a good chance they won't even notice.

2. For me - when I go out I try to be the best example of a "CD" I can be. You may have never seen one, you may be a closeted, you may know someone who is, etc....
I feel that every time we go out there we make it easier for the next girl.

The world needs to know that we're people just like everyone else .... oh perhaps a bit prettier that others, but just like them. We're not freaks or pervs... just people and that this is normal .... for us.

I realized who I am far to late in life to fully live my dreams. Perhaps my going out will make it ok for someone who is just as conflicted and confused as I was, to dress as he/she really wants to and go out there and make it ok for the next one.

XXX

Megan

[phyllis Lavender]

I believe everthing should be in moderation not super flashy, at least for a 54 yr.old lady. Wearing 6"stiletto heels and a leather miniskirt may be a headturner but appropriate for a lady of my taste.

[Christinedreamer]

We are subjected to people who have split their tongues, have steel barbells in their tongues, rings, paperclips and safety pins through cheeks and lips, eyebrows, nose , and probably everywhere else. Big open loops in the earlobes as well.

I am waiting for the Unbangi lip plates to arrive on the street scene soon.

Seeing this does 2 things to me. Makes me nauseous, and makes me question their sanity. I expend a great deal of effort in keeping my body free of punctures by metal in my shop.

Women who shower in cologne. People who violate my space and the noise ordinances by forcing me to be subjected to earschplittenloudenboomer (c)rap etc "music".

A CD or TG hurts no one, is peacefully expressing their gender presentation preference and IF someone is bothered (for whatever misinformed reason) all they need do is turn away. Problem solved.

Be proud of who you are. Be assured that it is your right. And understand that many of us are not yet at the stage of sufficient confidence to go out daily.

You are to be commended and NOT reprimanded.

[sterling12]

Cheryl, simply put: "your not responsible for someone else's happiness or unhappiness." And: "They aren't responsible for your happiness or unhappiness." So.....you can't effect their feelings and Life. So, How can you "disrespect" them, if you have no responsibility for them?

I realize that you are new at this game, but I think your really trying very hard to try and find some justification in your mind for not going out, for not enjoying yourself!

For The One Thousandth Time over the past six years, "Learn to accept yourself, and these "mind-barriers will go away!"

Now, to reverse-think the above statements, "You are responsible for your own happiness or unhappiness," concentrate on that! Oh gosh! It's a big, beautiful, World out there. You only have a finite number of years on this Earth. Realize what your mind is doing to yourself....your wasting precious time on Garbage!

There are way too many out there who will spend their whole lives in The Closet, and my Heart goes out to them. You let this perception get to your psyche, your going to be another one added to The List. Don't do that, I cry every time I think about A Sista' who is pissing her life away.

Peace and Love, Joanie

[TxKimberly]

I read this thread a few days ago but had to think it over for a while. I've had a moment here or there when I also considered this myself, but I've decided that the worry you express is based on a faulty assumption. It assumes that people have the right to expect that they will not encounter people that they don't like or approve of. There are plenty of neanderthals still alive and well that HATE blacks, Hispanics, Jews, Asians, Irish, Catholics, protestants, Lesbians, Gay, and the list can go on and on. The fact is though, that you do NOT have the right or even a reasonable expectation, to assume that you will not be exposed to people or cultures that you do not like or approve of.

[Kerrylee61]

Girl, if you keep this up you will drive yourself nuts. For your own sake quit analizing everything to death and quit trying to be so politicaly correct.

Kerry

[Nicole Erin]

OK check this out -
What is disrespectful in public is when you see guys with their pants sagging SO low that you can see their skivvies in all their glory.
For real it is like they walk around, BVD-clad butt and front fly showing completely,
So a well-dressed, even if not passable, TG in public is the least ridiculous sight one might see.

[Loni]

to be disrespectful, one must focus on a subject/place/thing.

if one feels they have been disrespected then what did they do wrong? what did the "other" do wrong??

one can only be wronged if they want to be. sure there are those out there who work at disrespecting all they can.(they are called punks).

but if you are trying to be respectful then the person receiving the so called disrespect is doing something wrong...or just thinking that way.
if you are being respectful to others then they should return the favor. some will not.
try going out of your way to hold a door open for others, most will say thank you, some will not. i still say "your welcome".


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