If I'd been born a cisboy...

[Ze]

I've been thinking about this for the past week or so. If I'd been born a genetic boy who identified as a boy, presumably same general personality and family withstanding, I would have:

-Joined both track and baseball during my school years.

-Learned how to hunt deer and consequently make homemade deer jerky. (Sorry, folks. Family tradition.)

-Learned how to fish and hence scale them, bone them, gut them, etc.

-Taken both ballroom and swing lessons.

-Joined the Boy Scouts and attempted to make Eagle.

-Been an outright flirt with the ladies. :devil:

-Learned more about car maintenance.

-Learned more about basic carpentry and household Mr.-Fix-It stuff.

These are just some things I'd always or eventually wanted to do, but couldn't or wasn't allowed to due to the body I was born in. Silly, no? But I've since decided I'd try to make up for these losses...or what I can of them. Joining sports teams in high school is pretty much out for obvious reasons, as is deer hunting. (I wasn't desensitized to the matter in my early years. I "want" to hunt deer, but only because that's simply what the men in my family do.) Likewise with the Boy Scouts; maybe one day I could become a scout leader or summat, but I'm sure their "no gays" policy will probably keep me out regardless of its irrelevancy to me.

As for the other stuff, I hope to start learning (cars, fishing, fixing things) what I can. Not quite sure who's supposed to teach me, though. I'm pretty sure most boys learned these things as they grew up from their fathers or other male figures. I don't have that, sadly. If dance lessons are taught in Boston, though, I hope to find a suitable female partner and finally go for it. I'm assuming certain areas of Boston will be fine with such a dance couple. And as for flirting, well, you tell me. :battingeyelashes:

So what about any of you? Ever give the "what-ifs" a playful thought and/or tried to make up for what you missed out on? You ladies are welcome to contribute, too.

[Toni_Lynn]

Hey

I had to chuckle when I read what you wrote -- and BTW thanks for the invite for those of us on the girl side to contribute -- because I could say some similar things.

If I had been born a cisgirl, I'd have been a right ol' tomboy! I'd have joined the track team and played softball. I'd have had fantasies about being a boy scout and going camping with the guys. I'd have learned to fish. I'd have been a flirt, too, but more than likely with CD boys.

I'd have done all the things I did growing up as a teen, but in gender reverse .. instead of sneaking in the girls restroom at high school, I'd have gotten a thrill out of sneaking into the boys. Instead of my real life found recollections of secretly getting my first bra, I'd have sneaked behind my parents back to get a jockstrap.

I dunno, I'm pretty weird inside .. but that one of my endearing charms

Huggles

Toni-Lynn

[Joanne f]

A bit difficult to say "what if" because i get the feeling that i would have still done all the same things but just done them a little bit more girlie :heehee: come to think of it maybe i did do them a bit girlie :heehee:

[4serrus]

I would have gotten beaten up a LOT. And likely become even more nerdy than I already am. I definitely would have played D&D. I probably would still be a virgin and not accepted that I was gay (maybe even homophobic! Ick!), and I'd be a lot more immature than I am since a good number of my 'life lessons' have come from having asshole boyfriends and going through things you can't do when you don't have a uterus.

[Persephone]

Oh, Ze! If we'd grown up together I would have gladly given you my turn at bat and my time in the boy's locker room! Believe me, you would have been so much better at those things than I was!

For me, traveling in the opposite direction, those were some of the worst moments of my life. I'm now well aware of how mean and cruel girls can be, but my first lessons were in how mean and cruel the boys can be. If you want, I'll share the stories of some of those nightmare moments, but believe me, you're probably better off without those memories.


As for the other stuff, I hope to start learning (cars, fishing, fixing things) what I can. Not quite sure who's supposed to teach me, though. I'm pretty sure most boys learned these things as they grew up from their fathers or other male figures. I don't have that, sadly.

You'd be surprised how many men have no idea of any of any of that. Just find some yuppie lawyer or dentist and ask him if you can borrow a drill bit and watch how clueless he is!

In our area you can find classes in basic auto repair, woodworking, and stuff like that at either the community college or the "occupational center." There should be something like that in your area and, usually, the classes are pretty cheap.

Places like Home Depot, Lowe's, and the other chain hardware stores often have classes, usually on Saturdays, on basic home repair. Again, cheap or free.

For fishing, hunting, or shooting you might look for info in the local tackle or gun stores. There appear to be some on-line videos on "How to fish," etc. and there are tons of magazines and books.

Once you have the vocabulary down, maybe go out to where men fish, find some old retired guy and tell him you want to learn to fish. He'll probably love being an "expert," he'll sit you down and say, "Well, son, the first thing is . . . "

A good suggestion is to have pre-setup for a friend to call your cell after about half an hour. If the guy is interesting, you can ignore the call. If he's down to telling you about his hemorrhoids or something you can take the call, look sad and say "Oooops! Gotta run!"

Hugs,
Persephone.

[Deborah Jane]

If I'd have been the female version of who I am and been one of the girls that hung out with the crowd I hung out with, I've no doubt I'd have been pregnant before my eighteenth birthday, as several of them were [not by me though....As far as I know] :eek: :heehee:

[Kelly DeWinter]

Not to be dense, but whats a 'cisboy' ?

By the way I have a lot of tools you could have, I rarely use them, just don't have the 'tude' for it LOL


Kelly

[Ze]

Not to be dense, but whats a 'cisboy' ?

Sorry, I use a lot of trans slang anymore. :) "Cisgender" is pretty much the opposite of "transgender," meaning somebody born genetically in what society considers male/female and personally identifies with said genetics. Cispeople are the Normals, basically; anybody not trans, intersexed, a CDer, etc. My slang, like "transboy," would be "cisboy." :ner:

[Toni_Lynn]

Cispeople are the Normals...

Wait just a cotton pickin' minute. Who said anything about bein' normal! If that's part of the deal, I'm outta there! :eek:

Huggles

Toni-Lynn

[Ze]

Wait just a cotton pickin' minute. Who said anything about bein' normal! If that's part of the deal, I'm outta there! :eek:

Huggles

Toni-Lynn

O-ho! But there's a difference between normal and Normal! :ner:

[janelle]

You know Ze you can still learn all of that & more if you wish. Good luck.

[Fab Karen]

... I hope to start learning (cars, fishing, fixing things) what I can. Not quite sure who's supposed to teach me, though. I'm pretty sure most boys learned these things as they grew up from their fathers or other male figures. I don't have that, sadly.

Fishing? nope. A) have to have an interest in it B) then would have to head way out to the country-side to do it.
Cars? nope. Fixing things? Saw him doing some things, but didn't take an interest in watching. Only as an adult did I discover how to do some things on my own out of a lack of money to have someone fix them.

[sandra-leigh]

Chances are fairly high that you can find someone willing to teach you how to fish. A fair number of people adopt fishing as adults: spouses joining their spouses, retired people looking for something peaceful to do.

I would not, though, advise a protocol of not taking the call if you are having a good time: if, hypothetically, you were under duress, you would probably not be able to answer, and you wouldn't want to turn into a case of people beleiving you were okay because they didn't hear from you.

As well as the good suggestion about Home Depot: around here, community centres and school boards offer evening classes in shop or carving or the like. I don't recall any hunting courses, other than fire-arms safety (pretty much mandatory to get a gun license here.)


I used to enjoy fishing, especially with my grandfather; that changed some time in my early teens.

My grandfather had a complete shop in his basement; he didn't really like me to watch, though. My father, though, liked me to watch and often asked for my help. I took Industrial Arts in High School for 3 years in memory of my father, and I enjoyed it... but I turn out not to be especially good at it. I miss not having a room to play around with a lathe or something like that.

I never learned how to flirt; I'm not sure I would have learned if I had been born cis-female. I've never observed my mother or sister flirt.

If I'd been born a cis-female... I might have learned how to fold clothes properly :o I doubt I would have entered Rhythmic Gymnastics, though... I ain't got no rhythm or coordination.


Ze, did you ever learn how to flip cards? That was important for guys when I was growing up. Or am I showing my age again? Oh good grief, I just checked references, and it looks like iPods were introduced when you were barely a teenager; by comparison, the very first Walkman was not commercially released until just after I finished highschool. Now I feel old! :sad:

[Ze]

Flip cards? Like...literally? :heehee:

[Faith_G]

If I'd been born a cisgirl I would have -

Not had to mow the damn lawn every week.

Learned to cook and bake.

Had to do the dishes.

Taken ballet lessons instead of being forced to be on sports teams.

Been discouraged from pursuing my fascination for everything mechanical and my passion for fixing broken stuff.

Learned how to do something with my hair other than let it fall naturally. Thankfully it looks OK that way. :) But sometimes I'd like a hot looking updo.

Figured out how to get this guy at church to stop beating around the bush and just ask me out already!



So yeah, things would be different. But I've had some positive experiences along with the negative ones - and even avoided a few big negatives like teen pregnancy and that whole sexist oppression mess that cisgirls are subjected to.

[Kid Flash]

Hmm, if I was born a boy... I wouldn't have joined gymnastics (girls only) and probably would've kept up with wrestling. Still would've done cross-country and Ultimate Frisbee (yay co-ed sports!). I'd probably be more athletic simply because it's easier for guys. Growing up in my family though, wouldn't have been any different. My parents don't treat me and my siblings any differently based on gender, me and my sister are actually probably more "masculine" than my brother. I would probably still crossdress.

@4serrus: Why can't you play D&D now? Haha, I'm actually going to join a campaign this summer.

@sandra-leigh: I can't fold clothes. o.o

[sandra-leigh]

Flip cards? Like...literally? :heehee:

Yep, you put a card (especially hockey or baseball cards) between your index finger and middle finger and toss your hand forward and release the card and have it sail through the air, trying to get it to rest as close as possible to an edge (such as a wall.) If you could get it to pretty much stand up on end leaning against the edge, that was a very good shot. People would take turns at this and would be attempting to knock down other people's cards while having their cards land well. The person who lands closest (or steepest angle of lean) is the winner of the round. In the original, causing someone else's card to flip over was an aim, but my generation emphasized landing the card right where you wanted it. I got to be pretty good at it, but not the best around.

But that was (urp!) 40 years ago...

[7sisters]

Sign up for ballroom and swing lessons?

Ok. Then I’m your partner! :hugs:

Ze you have an advantage like all MTMs. You understand women better because you were socialized with them. This gives you insight and perspective that no cisgen man has. You have that magic key to a womans mind and heart that most cisgen guys desperately want. Think about it. The way to a woman’s heart is through her mind.
As for the other stuff: you can do most of it now. You are talented enough to pick up any activity you want. You are such a smart guy!

[Thornton]

If I were born a cisgendered boy...I

-Probably would've had to have shared a room with my 2 brothers...and that would've sucked. I like my privacy...

-Would've been in Boy Scouts instead of Girlscouts. I wouldn't have been so beast at pushing those Thin Mints on my whole high school (It was actually against the rules to sell any fundraising food to fellow students, but NO teacher enforced that rule when I came around...)

-Probably wouldn't have questioned my gender and sexuality, gender representation in the media, gender expectation in society, gender double standards...wouldn't have appreciated the Queer rights movement that's making big changes in the world today...

-probably would be more athletic

-would have less problems with my parents

-a bunch of other things I can't recall at the moment

[DanielMacBride]

Hmmm, great thread! If I had been born a cisboy, I would have:

* been allowed to do all the things I LIKED doing like climbing trees and riding my skateboard and wearing jeans and riding my bike, without being told I wasn't being "ladylike".

* avoided being pushed into ballet lessons at age 3 because my mother is a horrible "stage mother" type who has to live vicariously through her "daughter" because her own life was apparently so deprived.

* learned how to fix cars and plumbing and all that other stuff that boys seem to just pick up along the way but girls weren't allowed anywhere near.

* had more time with my father's guns and continued to be a crack shot (I used to be able to hit a moving rabbit at a hundred metres or more without sights), and quite possibly have got into competitive shooting, or even archery like my brother did.

* would more than likely now be riding around on an old motorcycle or have a really nice old car that I had restored.

* been a hell of a lot less of an angry teenager, probably not got my butt belted on an almost daily basis by my father, and probably not run away from home a zillion times - I would have also finished high school and not had so much pressure on me to perform well academically (two schoolteachers for parents, eldest child and the "girl" so behaviour had to be perfect, 'nuff said).

* avoided the whole "pregnant at 17" thing and all the abuse that came with it from so-called family, and possibly not ever had kids at all.

If I had been born a cisboy, my life would be unrecognisable by comparison to the life I have had. I'm kinda in two minds about this question, because on the one hand thinking about it gives me some things that I want to do now to make up for what I missed, but on the other hand it also causes me some pain in knowing what I have missed out on by having the nerve to be born with mismatched body and brain (as my parents would view it), because I know beyond a doubt that my life would have been a LOT easier and less painful if I had been born a regular boy.

[Lorileah]

I am thinking like Debs. I would probably have pretty much been like I was. Wasn't high on athletics but maybe would have joined the sports I played later earlier. Volleyball was a "girl's sport" but when I was in my 20s I was playing highly competitive level men's also field hockey (which in the US is mostly women's).

I have thoughts about how I would have been...but they aren't how I am sure they would have been.

I would have been the girl who looked studious and reserved by day and a vixen and tease at night.

I would still have gone into a profession (mind OUT of the gutter Ze) maybe married, probably not no children.

Probably lived in an urban setting, nice loft. either a "cute" car or a sexy car. Party all weekend, work all week.

Oh and I would be a tease...did I say that? :)

what would have been is middle class, librarian with 5 cats and no boyfriend

[sandra-leigh]

* learned how to fix cars and plumbing and all that other stuff that boys seem to just pick up along the way but girls weren't allowed anywhere near.


I never learned to fix a car or do anything more than change washer fluid, check the oil, and change windshield wipers.

I didn't learn much about plumbing when I was young; I don't know a whole lot more about it now, but it doesn't take much to use a 50' plumbers snake (other than time.)

There was one thing I did learn that my (older) sister didn't, and that is a bit of electrical work. Nothing complicated, but when the dryer would burn itself out yet again, I was the one that would turn off the electricity, pull out the dryer, check the electricity, put new lugs on the wires that had melted the old ones off, check the electricity, attach the new wires... and get a nasty shock :doh: . I swear there were big capacitors somewhere in there! Good thing the shocks were from touching something rather than from grasping something: the muscle spasms would naturally jerk my hand away...

My father was a teacher of electronics, and he did teach me some of that (this was end of 1960's to early 1970's).

If I'd been born a cis-female... I probably would have been taught how to bake by my grandmother. And I probably would have been expected to stuff the turkey (yeck!)

[DanielMacBride]

In my family and their circles of friends, all the guys knew how to do all the things I listed, and were allowed to hang out with each other in the workshop (which was TOTALLY off limits to girls, it was like sacred mens space lol). It was kind of expected that all the guys would know how to be Mr. Fix-Its with everything, and so all the boys picked up that knowledge by osmosis (monkey see, monkey do type thing, I wasn't even allowed to watch my father fix things >.<) Girls in my family are considered useless as anything more than adornments for the males, or to cook and clean and spit out babies. So my exposure to any of the more traditionally "male" things was basically nil (and this was in the 70s and 80s).

And still to this day, my family use the fact that I don't just naturally "know" those things, to justify their argument that I am not and never will be male. It's a pretty powerful yardstick to be measured by, and one that I constantly feel is very unfair because my FAMILY were the ones who denied me the "guy" things and taught me cooking and baking and sewing and all that stuff and wouldn't let me be ME. Even before I figured out the whole trans thing, I refused to force such rigid gender roles on my own children - I happily let my girls wear overalls and climb trees and help their dad to fix cars, and let my boys play with dolls and learn to nurture and cook and all that stuff. I kind of learned to despise rigid gender roles because that's what I grew up with (which I like to think makes me a better man because I am a feminist and don't restrict women to those limiting boxes).

/ramble (lol)

[Andy66]

From my point of view, it's six of one, half a dozen of the other. If I had been born a cisboy I would have had a different set of good experiences, but also a different set of disappointments.

I've written about it before, I'm still bitter about the tractor thing. When I was a teenager my father decided to build his own swimming pool. He rented some sort of small tractor to dig the hole. My brother, who is younger than I am, got to learn to drive the tractor and help. I didn't. :Angry3: It took me 25 years or so to do it, but I finally got a chance to learn to drive some cool lifting equipment. It's not a tractor, but it'll do. A woman taught me to drive a forklift after I told her that story, because she could relate.

My mother never taught me to cook (I learned from boyfriends) so no difference there.

I still would have learned about building and fixing stuff from my dad, but maybe I would have learned more.

I still would have taken the same auto shop class in college with the same epically boring instructor and quit after two weeks, then regretted quitting ever since. :doh:

I probably still would have disliked team sports, and had similar jobs (mostly office) because I'm just that nerdy. :p

I probably would still be the opposite of a flirt (a babbling idiot) around people I find attractive. :heehee:

Go take some classes, Ze, in college or somewhere else, and make your dreams come true. :hugs:

[Lex]

Well I was never discouraged by my parents not to do things that girls aren't 'supposed' to do. On the other hand, I was never really encouraged to do more boyish activities. Like, if I wanted to join a football team, no one would stop me. It's just that no one would really suggest it in the first place.

I don't really like team sports much, so if I was a cisguy, I probably would have been pressured into doing sports and would have been pretty unhappy with that.

And actually, because I'm so half and half, I think that my highschool experience would have been just as miserable as it was. Instead of being the angry butch lesbian girl who sits in the back, keeps to herself and draws and reads a lot, I would have been the angry effeminate gay guy who sits in the back, keeps to himself and draws and reads a lot.

What else would have been different? My dad would have tried a lot harder to spend time with me and do stuff with me. I don't really like him much, so I'm not missing anything there. I've also seen the way that he treats my nephew compared to my nieces...if I was a csiguy he'd treat me better.

I don't know...my dad doesn't really do much like fishing, hunting or home repairs, so I don't think he'd have taught me much. And my mother has never really taught me anything super girly. She just teaches me general useful things from time to time.

So yeah, if I was born a csiguy, not too much would be different. And I'd probably be on this forum, but as an MtF rather than an FtM. :)

[alpha12]

I would have gotten into a LOT less trouble in nursery school/kindergarten for playing with the boys.

I would not have been taught how to cook or sew.

I would have been required to learn talmud at a young age

I would have been sent away to school in the east coast in seventh or eighth grade

I would not have gotten a reputation as an oddball for insisting on dressing in black and white, wearing lace up black oxfords, and modeling my brother's black hat in the mirror.

I would not have been allowed to go to college.

Ok, so my life was weird even without the gender issues. But in some ways, my tendency to cross-dress a bit--wearing severely simple black and white clothes, and white oxford shirts--as close to Orthodox Jewish men's clothing as I was allowed to get--was met with approval because it was "modest". I didn't push the envelope in quite the same ways as my classmates (all female, strict gender segregation), and so I didn't get the same level of constant harping about modesty and such. I was a young prig with a seriously overdeveloped sense of propriety. If I had been born a cisboy, that probably would have earned me a spot in an elite yeshiva at a young age.

Boy, was I lucky to have been born female. Ironically, despite the oppression of a strictly patriarchal community and marriage model enforced by the community, women before marriage in that community have a lot more freedom with regard to education, and education is the key to getting out.

After a year of attempted brainwashing in Jerusalem I went to college and I even got my first pair of jeans. At the age of 22.

When I say I'm ambivalent about my sex, boy do I mean it! I doubt I would have survived long enough to escape if I had been raised a boy.

[sandra-leigh]

I can't seem to help it... every time I read the title of this thread, I mentally set it to music:

"If I was a cis-boy
Ya ha deedle deedle, bubba bubba deedle deedle dum
All day long I'd ..."

:o

[Andy66]

I can't seem to help it... every time I read the title of this thread, I mentally set it to music:

"If I was a cis-boy
Ya ha deedle deedle, bubba bubba deedle deedle dum
All day long I'd ..."

:o
"TRADITION!"
I'm so confused, it's funny in a not funny sort of way! :loc:

[Adam]

I was given the ok to do whatever i wanted to do regardless of gender while growing up! yes in school sports i had to do what the girls did but this is the only time my gender came into things growing up.

And once i reached 11 because i told my folks i dident want to change in the girls changeing rooms and do girl sports the wrote me a letter to the school to say im not to do sport if i dident want so after 11 i never did sports at school.

At home once i passed age about 5 (before that my folks did try to push me into the female gender role) after this they noticed it made me unhappy and gave me the choice of boy stuff to wear and do :)

i guess if i was born male though i would have gotten a gf by now and at least been on a date of two its only ME and my discomfort with my body that has stopped me!

I am one of the lucky few becasue my folks are happy me being my own person and as long as im happy and not hurting anyone else there happy for me to do what i like.

i had 4 brothers and one sister growing up i always did the same things as my brothers had tonn's of fun made go karts, a tree house (and its still standing even though we no longer live there we moved years ago).
None of my family are into sport so that never got played anyways.

[Leo Lane]

I'm one of those lucky ones who grew up doing much the same things he'd have done as a cisboy. But I wouldn't have had to wear a skirt in choir; I wouldn't have done my head in for years wondering how I could possibly feel like a gay guy; I'd have been able to serve at the altar and seriously consider the priesthood. The last one is the only one I feel bitter about.

[Lex]

Oh yeah, I'd forgotten about those skirts and dresses I had to wear at school. If I'd been a csiboy, I would have worn pants to school. I would not have spent windy days clutching at my schooldress to hold it down. And on those rare days that I didn't, if I had been a csiboy, no one would have seen my underwear. Seriously, cotton dresses are LAME when you mix them with even a gentle breeze.

[AnonyMouse]

It occurred to me once that I've actually benefited a lot from being born female, and I stick with that assessment. See, if I'd been born a boy:

I would still have been raised almost entirely by females.

I wouldn't have gotten so frustrated when people treated me differently because I was a girl; because of that, I never would have become the feminist I am today.

I would have had to struggle between my fundamentalist Christian faith, and a male sex drive and homosexuality.

I probably wouldn't have given transsexualism more than a passing thought. Because of this, I wouldn't understand why gender expression was so important and how much trans people struggle to be acknowledged - and I wouldn't be able to apply that understanding to other subjects, such as racism.

I would never have dared to wear a dress on Halloween (the one time of year when I sometimes like to do so).

I probably wouldn't have developed the sense of empathy I have today.

I definitely would never have been able to fully appreciate my male-ness and what it means to me.

I would have gotten to wear more of the awesome boys' clothes, shoes, and accessories that I so dearly wanted.

Other than that, I'd probably have done the same things I did as a girl.

[NiCo]

If I had been born normal I reckon I’d be an utter pr*ck and I’d probably be really vain [more so than I am now], screwing females or males about, taking advantage and up to no good all the time.

It’s the life I’ve lived so far who has made me as I am today, hopefully I can be seen as open minded [I try my best to accept everyone’s situation and not judge] and I think I have a lot more life experience and more mature than I would be if I was born without my problems now.