Anybody For A *No****zPlz* Thread ???

[Marda]

Hi TViewerz

It looks as though the "****z" category gets pretty good coverage here ...

Personally, I'm interested in *Building* the
"Androgynous People's Community" ...

that would probably include such aspects as ...
a) overall CD/TG Image "Makeover" in the "Greater Communities"
b) outreach and support to serious junior CD/TGs
c) general Health & Social Welfare for CD/TGs
d) *Educational* and *Communication* links with the general population

Just a few ideas ... if *This Forum / Membership* would prefer to
*Not Get Involved* ... I'm kool about working elsewhere :-)
~
Anybody ???
~
Love / Marda

ps: Pls don't misunderstand ... I *do* like sex & fun too ... but in general terms, as a sub-group, we *Don't* enjoy many benefits in the open communities, and the overall default "Public Image" of CD/TGs makes it very difficult for "Androgynous People" to establish any position of credibility as Articulate, Creative, Productive, Responsible, Loving, Peaceful & "Worthwhile Human Beings" ...

XOXOXO / Marda

[Wen4cd]

I was of the understanding that this forum already provided worthwhile discussion on ALL aspects of crossdressing.

The 'sex' posts already have their place--in the personals sub-forum.

I would really hate to see this site turn into another creepy, uncomfortable propaganda machine, like tgni is. And this sounds like what your describing.

Some people's definition of 'outreach and support' includes pressuring and 'educating' people, and while the words sound nice on their face, I've found that the best 'support' is simply a nice comfortable BBS (like this one) where there's no pressure, and no judgements and assumptions made as to how 'serious' someone is in their TG status.

The people here are already deeply 'involved' in their lifestyles, so there's no reason to imply that we're burying our heads in the sand if we don't want to jump on partisan bandwagons.

If dressers would worry less about what the ethereal 'society' thinks of them, and more about just living their lives, they would find the world is already a very accepting place for every sort of person.

And if new 'junior tg's' come to these sites to get support and learn, they don't need a lot of rehearsed and phony 'education ' grarbage thrown in their faces. All most of them need is the comfortable knowledge that other people like themselves are normal people who can lead normal lives. If they see loads of this 'let's educate society to love us' nonsense, it's a signal to them that they might be getting into something not quite right.

Also , it's extremely counter-productive to hit anyone with a bunch of propaganda in the first place. If your wife doesn't support your dressing, do you think sticking some 'educational' book in her face and saying "here read this, it'll fix you" is going to solve any real problems? It's a flawed, helpless doer of desperation that would make someone believe that would work.

Sorry if this sounded a little harsh, but I've been to LOTS of TG/CD sites, and so far this is the only one that isn't plagued with this kind of pressure and partisanship. If this site turns into another tgni or 'educational' site, it will cease to be a place where I feel comfortable posting or reading.

So for the love of humanity, and all crossdressers, please throw the political agendas in the garbage can where they belong, and act like freaking PEOPLE instead of lobbyists.

Wen

[Sherlyn]

Bravo !!!! i agree entirely wen more so on 1 point >>>Also , it's extremely counter-productive to hit anyone with a bunch of propaganda in the first place. If your wife doesn't support your dressing, do you think sticking some 'educational' book in her face and saying "here read this, it'll fix you" is going to solve any real problems? It's a flawed, helpless doer of desperation that would make someone believe that would work<<<< !!!however !!! ...i do not post in the more sexual side of this forum BUT.. i certainly enjoy reading them ...it coz's no evaluations on the ppl who write them in my mind i think everyone in here has secret passions and desires of the sexual nature..some ppl post them ..others who are shy with expressing it perhaps enjoy these posts because it tells them HEY i have these desires to ...hmmm ME maybe ...lol am i kidding .... well abstract as that may read i do agree with you ....lets let this forum be what it is ...individuals who can come here and post there inner most or ****zy most feelings : ] its working so far YAYYYYYYYYYYYY : ] why change the ways we are here

[Marda]

08-12-2004 10:31 AM
Marda
...*Building* the "Androgynous People's Community" ...
... probably include such aspects as ...
... CD/TG Image "Makeover" in the "Greater Communities"
... outreach and support
... Health & Social Welfare
... *Educational* and *Communication* links
... Just a few ideas ...
... in general terms ... the overall default "Public Image" of ... CD/TGs makes it very difficult ... to establish ... credibility as Articulate, Creative, Productive, Responsible, Loving, Peaceful & "Worthwhile Human Beings" ...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
08-12-2004 01:08 PM
Wen4cd
... hate ... creepy, uncomfortable propaganda machine... And this sounds like what your describing
... Some people's definition of 'outreach and support'... pressuring and 'educating' people
... imply that we're burying our heads in the sand if we don't want to jump on partisan bandwagons.
... 'junior tg's' come to these sites to get support and learn, they don't need a lot of rehearsed and phony 'education ' grarbage thrown in their faces
... loads of this 'let's educate society to love us' nonsense, it's a signal to them that they might be getting
into something not quite right.
... Also , it's extremely counter-productive to hit anyone with a bunch of propaganda in the first place
... do you think sticking some 'educational' book in her face
... It's a flawed, helpless doer of desperation that would make someone believe that would work.
... Sorry if this sounded a little harsh, but I've been to LOTS of TG/CD sites
... If this site turns into another tgni or 'educational' site, it will cease to be a place where I feel comfortable posting or reading.

***
... So for the love of humanity, and all crossdressers, please throw the political agendas in the garbage can where they belong, and act like freaking PEOPLE instead of lobbyists.
Wen

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

*YIKES* ...

I had no idea "education" = "propaganda" ?? ... "community building & image makeover " = "partisan lobbying" ?? "outreach, support, health & welfare = "counter-productive ... doer of desperation" ???

Anywaze, tnx for the learning opportunity and the "love of humanity" ...

But I'll leave the "freaking PEOPLE" part with you ...

***
Love / Marda

[Wen4cd]

*YIKES* ...

I had no idea "education" = "propaganda" ?? ... "community building & image makeover " = "partisan lobbying" ?? "outreach, support, health & welfare = "counter-productive ... doer of desperation" ???

Anywaze, tnx for the learning opportunity and the "love of humanity" ...

But I'll leave the "freaking PEOPLE" part with you ...


I'm sorry if I sounded mean but I'm just telling it like it is.

Education is always propaganda, when it's dealing with social 'issues.' I thought everybody already knew this. You tell convincing statistics and data to people to chage their minds, you leave out the bad stuff. that's called "propaganda" I don't like it when Nazi homophobic hate groups do it, and I don't like when religious groups do it, and I don't like when the gay community does it, or when the church does it. It's a harmful thing to do, and I don't want to be a part of it.

"Image Makeover" is just a nice way of saying "makng people think what we want them to think about us" At best it's a dishonest attempt at controlling the media, or 'putting a happy face' for the public. We shouldn't need to do this.

Community building---- "setting up a hierarchy where the few bigmouths will be the most visible face of the community, regardless of the opinions of everybody else, setting up a social system where, instead of sharing ideas and thoughts, people will be vying for position in the social pecking order"

(As already proved by your suggestion that there be "no ****z please." Where does that leave the "****z" who would otherwise be sharing opinions? Out in the cold, that's where.)

outreach, support. etc...= according to a huge element of the TG world, this means pressuring individuals to conform to your ideals. And I've seen people who were perfectly happy with their dressing habits end up trashing all their values, their families, and their lives in the quest to 'transition', after being egged on by 'supportive' folk who didn't care for their lives, and only wanted another 'sister' to 'transition' for the sake of 'community building and outreach."

People who are happy, suddenly being tricked into depression by nudging and pressure under the guise of 'support."

It's no wonder people like Chrissy "the Hawk" think we're recruitment vampires. A lot of us sure do act that way.

It's the single biggest problem the TG world faces, and this kind of false support that makes people confused, depressed, and even suicidal.

If you want to honestly change the way people think about you, prove that you're not all about trying to control their minds. Live and let live.

Um, that's the end of my rant.... :D

Wen

[Julie]

I like it just as it is but then again I have had a lot to do with they way it is.

The idea of coming to a place that offers a reasonably decent place to go where the people are helpful, friendly and encouraging is something that appeals to me. This website really does have just about all the TG/CD/TV/TS community would want with the five sections presently available.

If you want another section you can always contact the Admin and request one. Maybe you will end up monitoring it also.

[Stelli]

I agree to Julie. Even though Julie also had some political issues as thread starters (where I was also active). My suggestion is to create a completely new section/forum as I do understand that there is whole set of issues that intersects crossdressing and society. Thus I am suggesting to admins (I do not know who they are) to create a section/forum called "Crossdressing and Society" to address all sort of issues from political, activist, partisan, educational, propagandial - label it whatever. What I am afraid that similar to this thread that section can get easily flamed as political views usually get very personal but with voting mechanism we can come to some democratic opinions. But in a way as it has been several times ("How we want to be precieved", "Crossdressing and Career" to mention some) somehow fail out from Male to Female crossdressing and if they pickup in discussion then they create strong diferentiation among members. Maybe there is no need for this section maybe this thread actually belong to "Lounge".

I do enjoy dressing issues because they are fun, but I do also enjoy trying to understand wider aspects of crossdressing impact in society. This issue/thread needs poll to see how people feel about it.... Marda, it is your thread, setup a poll and we vote. Let's use technological tools to negotiate what we want here.

[Wen4cd]

I'm sorry if I sounded like a manifesto-writing lunatic.

I'm just having horrible flash-backs of other sites I've been to, where as soon as you walk in the door you're bombarded with:

"So, how much of a crossdresser are you? Are you taking hormones yet? You should go come out and dress in front of you're friends and neighbors, they'll love that! We're all wonderful because we've stopped denying our true selves, and it's sooo great..."

I like this site because it's not like that.

I don't mean to say we shouldn't have our rights, so I'm sorry if it sounded like I did. I also have some strong opinions on the subject of propaganda and education, so I occasionally pop off at the mouth like that when I see it coming.

Sorreeee :rolleyes:

Wen

[Stelli]

Wen, take it easy. Nobody is slapping you here. I know how you may feel. I was one who was rebelious about education and politics and the rest of organisation that breaks on my back and head.

You are sharp, but save your sharpness for when it is needed. I liked your view. It makes me happy and sad in the same time. Education is propaganda, but there is still Education that makes you aware. If you haven't been educated you would not know what is propaganda.

There is nothing wrong with your reaction. It is just true that world is more complex that we can proccess at any time of our lifes. That's why civilisation invented mechanisms including technology to, if possible, try to make something that would be suitable to as many as possible. Even this approach is not perfect, by accomodating anything to large population you easily hit mediocrite solutions because the forces of different opinions and needs tend to average every solution and to be averaged it is to be mediocrite.

Do not mind Marda, her Spaceman is exemplary, but s/he is albeit heavily coded texts also very deep in issues. I tend to believe that her coding also comes from dealing with issues. From another side one do not want to become activist for no reason and I understand that. When your head is at stake then you learn if you are real revolutionary. I learn that on hard real-life example.

All of above applies, but, We still Love you Wen, please understand all of that as complete!

[Marda]

Good Morning Ladies
... there's not much I can add to what I believed were pretty straight forward thoughts ...
it seems my "good intentions" have truly rolled hot pavement on "the road to hell" ...
on that happy note ... we may as well open the toll gates to traffic
Ride On !!!
~
" ... such a memory of the best of the past is proper to stimulate the well-disposed of today to a courageous effort ...

... there is nothing else left for me but to speak about such questions as, independently of space and time, always have been and will be connected with educational matters. In this attempt I cannot lay claim to being an authority, especially as intelligent and well-meaning men of all times have dealt with educational problems have certainly repeatedly expressed their views clearly about these matters. From what source shall I, as a partial layman in the realm of pedagogy, derive courage to expound opinions with no foundations except personal experience and personal conviction? If it were really a scientific matter, one would probably be tempted to silence by such considerations.

However, with the affairs of active human beings it is different. Here knowledge of truth alone does not suffice; on the contrary this knowledge must continually be renewed by ceaseless effort, if it is not to be lost. It resembles a statue of marble which stands in the desert and is continuously threatened with burial by shifting sand. The hands of service must ever be at work, in order that the marble continue lastingly to shine in the sun. To these serving hands mine also shall belong."

from
"Out Of My Later Years"
"On Education" (1936)
Albert Einstein
~
Love / Marda

[Amelie]

I see what Marda is saying, I can not express myself like you ladies but I'll try.
Out in the CD world is different levels, for the girls who are at the level of just coming out or still closeted, they need support from other cds. I feel these threads already give support to those girls, by showing other girls adventures. Stories of shopping, going for walks ect, are all in these threads for girls who want support. They can ask any question onCDing and will get answers from the girls. As far as communication links to the general public, We are the general public. TV CD Gay, Straight, Black, White, Good, Bad this is the general public. It is in the media, where lies the trouble. They set the standard of what is acceptable and not. People listen to much to what the media says. I usaed to be in the punk scene, the media thought you must be weird. So punks did not look for acceptance from the media they said Piss-Off we're gonna do what we want, it's none of you're bussiness. That is the attitude we should have, support your sisters and all who don't like you, well to bad, it's none of their bussiness. Maybe a separate thread for support issues might help. I don't know, I think there is a lot of support here in these threads.
Wen is right you'd be surprised how many people in "society" don't care how you dress. Not to sound to simplistic, but it's what ever you want to do, you do it. Stay in the closet-OK, Going out-OK, Hiding it(if it's the only way) OK
In the sixties people were starting to live free, do your own thing, you'd think forty years later we'd not even be having a conversation on acceptance. It would be natural.

Amelie

[Jennifer_Ph]

This site is perfect the way it is. When people get out of line we deal with them. That's the way it should be. If a thread is too racy, then either ignore it or politely ask that it stop. My two pennies.

[Stelli]

Again, this thread is not about getting support but about gender issue activism.

True, it is not about crossdressing a such, it is about being accepted in wider public and means and methods to achieve that.

Some people do also dress as political statement. You can ride bike as political statement (as my friend pointed out when we saw guy riding bike in the middle of afternoon rush wearing filter mask on his face), you can go or resisting to go shopping as political statement. Thus ordinary things can be done in a way that clearly states your opinion.

Marda is of thinking that institutionalized approach can be done. This is not new, many social issues have their institutionalized articulation: alchoholism for example. I know that here in Canada there are funded organisations that help homosexual population. My friend is working in organisations that helps immigrants and another one that helps homeless. Such support is not perfect but it is real and existing. The fact is that transgendered people have been supported even with funded support is welcome, but lets ask this: who pays crossdressers.com to provide us this wonderful service? Have you ever tought of that? We are cool, we are good, we are supportive, but someone paid hard $$$ to make this possible... albeit all our support is voluntary.

But while we dress and entertain our desires there are people here and elsewhere that deal with real everyday issues. One of group that needs to seek refuge in gay and crossdress community are androgynous people, it is not their place, they are just refugees there they are just partly there. Every defined place in gender/sex spectrum naturally asks for their articulation. This thread is about specific group of people, it is however true that maybe the selection of words to advertise need is not happily choosen, but if not stressed issue also goes unnoticed - the art of being noticed is to tickle someones nerve and consequently create discussion about it. That part was well done. We are discussing.

It is also true that Machiavelli is disputable part of our civilisation but it is also common practice especially on the west side of the planet.

[Jenny]

Hi Everyone,

I am not real sure where I come down on this issue because I am not real sure I understand what Marda is proposing. I personally would encourage anybody to start any thread on any topic of interest to the dressing community whether that is what kind of bra do you like to wear to what is the general perception of the dressing community in the larger community and everything in between.

I wouldn't want to limit anybody's right to say anything about any of these topics. There are several threads that are introduced which don't interest me so I either don't read them or I don't post to them. On the other hand there are many more threads that I do find of interest. I like that our forum is open to all these kinds of postings whether there are of general interest, of political or social interest, of fashion interest or pointers, or even on the raunchy side. I don't want to exclude any portion of our community (that's why I was a little concerned by Marda's use the derogative term "****z" in her thread). As has been repeatedly demonstrated, dressing has a very substantial sexual component for almost all of us. I don't want to exclude people who are expressing that component more directly. I may just choose not to read their posts.

Well, I am afraid this is pretty rambling. I really do like (love?) this forum, much more than any others I have found. So I get nervous when I hear suggestions that it be changed very substantially or when it appears that "flame-wars" might be brewing between different groups of our members.

I know I am probably way too idealistic but I really would like this to be a place where all people, regardless of their individual circumstances, would be tolerant of all other people. Our common interest is crossdressing in all of its wonderful and exciting variations. I want to keep my focus on that. :)

Jenny, (a tiny voice whispering from the side)

[Wen4cd]

So I get nervous when I hear suggestions that it be changed very substantially or when it appears that "flame-wars" might be brewing between different groups of our members.


I don't want flame-wars either, hence my apology. I would probably see it as more of a 'friendly disagreement" to use pc terminology.

I'm fine with activism, but I value honesty higher. I think the best form of activism is to simply live your life as an example that people can have all sorts of quirks and still be happy, but unfortunately, that's not always the case. There is an inordinate amount of depression among the TG population, that I don't see in other 'interest groups' I monitor.

And aside from the vain attempts to whitewash our image, my biggest complaint was more in the line of what we do to each other. Misery loves company. So on more than one occasion, there have been full-time pre-op ts girls who have lost their families had a gun in their mouth 27 times actually convincing the casual closeted crossdresser that life would be much happier if they would only 'let their true selves' flourish.

People who have been content for years suddenly beoming depressed and bitter at their wives, families, and friends after a few visits to a website, or a few chats with a 'supportive' advice-spewing suicidally depressed liar that has already lost her whole life in a drowning-pool of gender issues, and is only offering 'help' to further their own denial.

I think somebody once called these folk 'false prophets in sheep's clothing', but I'm not going to imply they are really ravenous wolves. However, the effect of your life will be the same if you start believing their 'advice' and 'support'.

On the web, you can't see their 'fruits', so you can't be sure they aren't telling you how to be happy out of one side of their mouth, and pouring hemlock in the other side.

I really do shy away from trouble and confrontation, and I don't want to start arguments here. I love this group, and the people here.

So my complaint was really more about the whole gender-diverse world, not this group. So don't take what I say as advice or instruction or flaming, but just a friendly word of caution.

Wen

[Tristen Cox]

Hello Marda,

May I say you bring a delightful color to our forum. Your ideas are a welcome contribution. I have no quarrel with you but I would like to state my observation and opinion.
Here we are free no matter what country we come from. Everyone seems quite happy the way things have grown and are evolving. Someone said once "if you've got a good thing going don't mess with it". Those who have taken this forum seriously help it and guide it along positively.
Most of us don't want change, but this is not to say, as Julie mentioned, you could not have your own section for this idea to be implimented. You have a great idea.
A place for everything and everything in it's place.
My opinion is (no offense to you) but I'm with the punks and don't really think society, much less the media will ever accept us for just ourselves. I don't care for all the labels people come up with. I'm over it. However there's always a chance your idea may work and I'd be more than eager to support it in a seperate forum or section.
Those are my thoughts. Stick around for more.

[Stelli]

I'd really like to understand what is punk today...? I tought that punk died somewhere in 80ties, but there is this new-punk, what that is all about now?

Dressing codes have been important to lifestyle movements, just an open tought is CD a lifestyle movement?

[Amelie]

Punk is just a generic term I use, some say punk died in the eighties, it died when Sid Vicious died. You can use the term hippie, punk ,goth ,grunge, industial etc. These people told society to piss-off, they were not looking for exceptance from Dan Rather and company. It's easy to just use the the word punk for those who think main stream society is full of crap. It doesn't mean it's a fad that comes and goes because the media doesn't want it anymore. The ideals are still here in the young people today. It's just to bad that we, today as crossdressers, are so concerned that we must have acceptance from the media. What I am saying is we should follow thw examples set for us from these groups, we don't need society's permission to dress as women, we don't need to communicate with the general public, it is none of their business what we do. This is the 21st century for crying out load, all we want is the same laws that protect other people from being bashed applied to us. Call it what you want, punk whatever, they didn't wait for Dan Rather to give them the OK, and neither should we. The main difference between us and the punks, is they were a bunch of kids, while from what I see here a we're mainly a bunch of educated people, afraid to live.
So the term I use is immaterial, it's the idea behind it, if you can't stand up for something you want to do- then go back into the closet where they want you to go. They (society) will have won.

I'm sorry if it sounds mean, I have been hearing this for years, all the cry babies in drag who keep hoping one day society will accept them. I"ve been going out since the seventies, and it hasn't happened yet, And from what I see it not goona happen, so **** society and do what you want,
Live for yourself not them!

Amelie-Laveau

[Marda]

Hi Ladies

(amelie fer krisesakes eh? ... i ... i asked you to *warm* them up a little ... i ... i didn't say *set_them_on_fire* fer krisesakes eh?)

Ahhhemmm ... Thank You Amelie ... for those uuhhhhhh ... in_site_full remarks ...

I'll make this "thong" (smaller than brief eh?)

1) Tnx 2 *most* everybody who offered comments ... I've asked my close fiend "Dubbya" to have everyone else's tax files scrutinized ... you know who you are ...

2) Tnx Julie for the "suggestion" - May I call it an invitation ? - But first, Tnx for *what you've done to bring this forum together* - assurances to everyone that the *last thing I would want to do is break up what has already been assembled* ...

3) For the immediate future term, I personally lack the resources required to fulfill any formal obligations but this is a "work in progress" so forward is where I'm looking ...

4) I prefer to *not* interrupt any momentum this thread has gathered ... pls feel free everyone to continue adding comments inspired by anything you've seen so far ...

5) Erica, Wen, Stelli, Jennifer, Sherlyn, Amelie, Jenny ... there will be a "Board" meeting Sunday immediately after Church ... theme = "Who 'd Man!" ... Tristen we'll need you on standby to *headup* our "Morale" kommittee ...

That's it for now everyone ... "Boogie 'til ya puke!"
***
And now ... back to regular programming ...

Love / Marda

[Marda]

~ Memo On File ~
Sunday "Board Meeting" Cancelled
~
Hey Erica,
What time's Sunday School ?
Skirts & blouses OK or do we *Have* to wear a dress ?
Hs / Marda
ps: I assume there's sandwiches & stuff after ?

[Stelli]

Board meeting? Ehm, why not... I did not know that it was scheduled. How we could do it ? Chat?

(Maybe I can excercize my online experience .... ?)

[Marda]

Stelli ... see post #22
~
Quote:
(Marda ~ Memo On File ~
Sunday "Board Meeting" Cancelled
~
Hey Erica,
What time's Sunday School ? )
~
We're murderin' a baby cattle beast at Erica's Sunday School ... we're gonna have a picnic ... a Sunday School Picnic ... ya wanna come ???

Hs / Marda

[Stelli]

Thank you Amelie for the input. It is very interesting to read.

In 60ties, 70ties and 80ties, people have had something to say and have articulated it not through mainstream media but by living it. The difference is that there were ***a lot of people*** that lived it. It was simply unavoidable to notice it. It was alternative mainstream. All of such lifestyle movments started dying in 80-ties. At that time it was getting articulated through exemplary leaders. Old Punk was urban resistance to anything nice, it was showing that ugly can be utilized as lifestyle. It was extremely radical for its time.

Then in suddenly 90ties we have had a schock. Information revolution that has messed everything to end up abruptly by enormous stock crash in beg of 2000es. One comment I have picked up that describet this period was: its all effect there was enough messages in the past, this one doesnot carry any message.

We are here in post-revolutionary period trying to collect bits and pieces together again. We are again trying to pass a message. Mainstream lifestyle is challenged big time, but this time there is no mainstream alternative. It is more like whole set of guerilla groups mixing everything and making some sort of new pop-art. What you call punk is one of these guerilla groups. The most interesting (to me recently) was amusing social expression called "flash mob". Anyway. CD is one of such guerilla social expressions apart from other psychological needs.

Good part this time is that technology allows us to publish, in 60ties that was concert with couple of guitars and drums eventually some other instrument and of course lyrics that carried the message.Today it is web forum. Very democratic tool (cant resist not to use also "demoncratic" word) We have chance to express ourselves much finer than before. We have all tools from text to making digital video to produce our understanding. And we have huge distribution channel that is available anytime all the time. It is content what we need today. People need to be agitated (ehm) educated for their own amusement.

Some time will pass and all of our understanding will become mainstream lifestyle or be present as once of niches in our future ultracomplex modern lifestyle. So be it. Challenge or activate? What else? We would all continue to pursue our comming out as part of our development, the rest would be just witnesing that comming out. Bit by bit everything that hurts noone else becomes acceptable. Regardles of who is subject and who is object in this game. Thus I believe that it is inevitable.

As you grow you learn that life needs some sort of base organisation and that this organisation is fundamental to both mainstream and alternative lifestyle, you'd not be able to express your opinion if some souls before us did not allow us to freely communicate. So we prize them, as we prize us for pushing the limits of humainty.

Here I would like to refer to a movie that have impressed me deeply, the movie name is: Powder (http://imdb.com/title/tt0114168/) . Although I recommend watching this movie to all of you (far from obligatory), I would just like to point one of keys that happen in movie, it says something like this: Humainty invented technology to resolve problems, technology overcomed our humanity big time, maybe in future our humanity will surpass our technology. I believe that we may be right at very this moment on the verge of such world. In its baby years. And I hope that I am right in this. I simply hope that with all tools that are at our disposal, our humanity is the ultimate winner, otherwise I'll refuse to understand that is still worth to live on this planet.

[Stelli]

Stelli ... see post #22
~
Quote:
(Marda ~ Memo On File ~
Sunday "Board Meeting" Cancelled
~
Hey Erica,
What time's Sunday School ? )
~
We're murderin' a baby cattle beast at Erica's Sunday School ... we're gonna have a picnic ... a Sunday School Picnic ... ya wanna come ???

Hs / Marda

Although it is impossible for me to come (working 7 days a week at least until spetember) the question still remains, where is that happening?

[Marda]

Hi Stelli,
~
Fine bit of postulation there !!!
Depending on where and how one looks at the "World" we "live" in ... "Humanity" may well be already on its' way down and gaining speed ... which is another way of saying "We as Collective Human Beings Have Already Seen Our Best Days" ...

Below is an example of "Government & BIG Business In Action" !

I'd be more than *Happy* to hear "legitimate arguments" to the contrary !

***
copy: Written by CBC News Online staff Thu, 12 Aug 2004
" Gene therapy turns lazy monkeys into workaholics

"WASHINGTON - Procrastinating primates turned into workaholics when researchers suppressed a gene that helps to sense the balance between reward and the work needed to earn it.

In the U.S. study, four rhesus monkeys were trained to push a lever in response to a change of colour on a computer screen, for which they received a juice treat as a reward.

Using a new technique, which consisted of injecting a short strand of DNA into the rhinal cortex of the monkey's brain, researchers were able to switch off a gene involved in processing reward signals.
...
"The gene knockdown triggered a remarkable transformation in the simian work ethic," said Richmond. With the active gene suppressed, the monkeys could no longer tell how many trials were left before reward time.

" ... they consistently stayed on-task and made few errors, because they could no longer learn to use visual cues to predict how their work was going to get them a reward," said Richmond.
...
Both monkeys and humans tend to procrastinate when they know they have to do more work before getting a reward, and then work harder as a deadline looms.

People ... may work incessantly for little reward. "

***
Contemplate a passage from the Book of Jude (1) 18,19 ...

"" In the last times there will be scoffers who will follow their own ungodly desires."
These are men who divide you, who follow mere natural instincts and do not have the Spirit. "
~
Love / Marda

[HillaryArtemis]

Dear everyone,

I can't believe that I missed this thread. Marda, your language again is too cryptic for me. I bypassed the title, because I thought it was something that belonged in the personals. Stelli drew my attention to this thread as we talked today on the telephone.

As I read the posts, I was filled with passion and couldn't wait to respond. I know that Marda your heart is in the right place. I loved the passion of you, Wen. This thread is the type of passion and discussion that is truly worthy of reading. Ideas and dialogue are so important. I am not so naive to believe that everyone of us CDs exists on the same level just as I am not so naive that all our wives have a certain level of acceptance.

I suppose I would like to answer two things at least. First is that throwing some book in front of an unaccepting wife is a useless exercise. Maybe I should just keep my mouth shut here, but I won't do that. If you don't like what I have to say then stop reading here I will give you the chance ........
.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ........


I deeply believe in the value of education and the intergrity of marriage. Hiding your CDing from a wife for ten or twenty years or so, I believe is a cruel and damaging activity for both of you. The activity of CDing naturally takes time, effort and money to pretend that you can do so without impact on your relationship is the kind of boldness that Helen Boyd asserts against some CDs, who claim to want to act like women but who really are just forming another separate men's society like a men's only bike club or a bowling team if you will. It is doing damage to us too by causing us to lead the double life fo0r too long - this always comes at a price. It is unfair to do that to your women, I say. Just because we don't believe that they won't accept it or can't deal with, doesn't give us the right to lie, hide and freak out in the closet for years and years. We stood on the alter and we took an oath before some God or another and made promises. I understand that many CDs are at a different level of acceptance themselves (disregarding their wives) and that many still hope secretly that it might go away. There are also dormant CDs too. But I believe that considering our oaths of marriage we must at some point disclose to our wives. I don't mean come out of the closet to the world. As I said before coming out means different things to different people. I feel that in someway people view "education" as having some sort of social ends to it like a Nazi social experiment or a religious social engineering plan ....

Guess what ... you are right all education has some sort of social agenda. The question is if you don't make your own social agenda then just who will be the hand that is rocking the cradle or who is ruling the world? Dan Rather or George Bush or Joe Hollywood? Marda, correct me if I am wrong, is trying to point to the need for such a educational place for CDs and maybe others about CDs. Is this so wrong? If we are not trying to educate when we speak, what the hell are we doing? Freakin out in the closet about our lipstick or nails? You might think that I am a total bitch or a nut, but I welcome your responses. That is how I and I believe we learn. So many CDs come here from advice too - what can we offer them - we must have something? So, Wen, come to me and answer my words. I long for others to be passionate. Wen and Sherlyn I appreciate your passion and admire your courage, even if you and I sit on opposite sides of the fence. Off course, I can't be always right, but so you others are in the same boat as I. Yes, education has a social agenda, but education doesn't transfer like pouring water into an empty vessel. Even if I try to educate you about the value of a peanut butter and banana sandwich for curing cold sores, you ... you will use your past knowledge to accept, modify or reject my argument. You will modify what I taught. The important thing is that I tried, your mind worked and that like all education .... eventually - hopefully for the educator and possible learner - you might come to belief that is the combination of what I taught and what you knew before. So, I believe that it is important to disclose ourselves at some point to some degree to our wives - those who trust us so much that they allow us to put forth our own seed into their bodies. We can - I believe - do this little by little through education. You can't just give up and say she won't understand so I will stay in the closet. Education can come in baby steps and take years and years. It is our business to learn how we can do this better. Listening to wives like Helen Boyd may not intially agree with us - I don't agree with everything she said either - but is a start. It allows us to see another perspective. Please don't just shut me out, nor don't just run home a confess to your wife over a bowl of soup cause I said so ( :D ). At some point we all have to ask ourselves, that if our wives will leave us over this then what kind of marriage was it anyway. I hate to say that, but it is what I believe.

The second point I will make is that of a place for CDs to meet and talk with each other. Many posts joked about the town meeting and sandwiches and such. Yes, this is important. The Internet is so impersonal and not so good at making powerful points in human relationships. I, for one, would love to sit around a table drinking green tea and munching on cherry-filled lady fingers in dress or not with Marda, Julie, Wen, Sheryn, Jenny, Erica, Stelli, Amelie and all others alike whether on a monthly or weekly basis. My question is how can this be done? Stelli and I talked about how this can be done this afternoon on the telephone too. We are so far apart geographically and yet we share something so deep and passionate within our small bodies.


If you hate what I say then please write back and call me Bitch or *****! I want to hear from you whether you agree or not. If I am wrong try and change my mind --- use your words to bring me to an understanding. Like a wife, I may not accept right away, but after you talk with me time and time again maybe we can come to an understanding. The fear that another might activate someting in another's mind might be present too. I admit that sometimes I too am worried, like when I am around a thief that I might steal too. I have said too much. I leave it to you all - respond thoughfully to me.


On her knees before you, in the eyes of some God or another,

Jodi Artemis

[clarissa3d]

:d :d Group Hug :d :d

[Marda]

~
= Clarissa ... Tnx for the *GroupHuggggFest* !!!
= Jodi ... If I was to *Say* what I was *Thinking*, You *Wouldn't Believe Me* ... but your *Figurin'* is doin' *Just Fine* !!! :-)
~

***
On That Happy Note ... Here's more *Spice* for the *Meatballs* ...

I *Trust* everyone on Board knows who, besides being my *Inspiration*, Who *Lynn Conway Is* !!!

For those who may have missed an earlier post on my humble little *3 Colour Gender ID Theory* ... Blue = Male, Red = Female, Green = Androgynous ...

Conveniently, I also use the "3 Colour Concept" to describe the 3 primary components of human activity ... Blue = Physical, Red = Mental, Green = Spiritual ...
*
/ M
~

***
SEX TRANSMUTATION * WAS LYNN CONWAY DOOMED TO SUCCEED ? *

The following texts by Lynn Conway and Napolean Hill outline one of *Mother Nature's* *Keys to Success*. I believe Lynn Conway was no more "Doomed To Succeed" than any "Ordinary" CD/TG is "Doomed to A Life of Isolation and Misery"

If anything, a CD/TG person, with an "Androgynous" sexual nature (OmniGender - Green), has at least *Equal* if not *Greater Opportunity* for life *Success* than persons with singularly Male (Blue) or Female (Red) nature

It is my contention that Lynn Conway, against insurmountable odds, exercised her "Will Power" to transmute her "Natural" and "Irresistible" Sexual Energy into Physical, Mental and Spiritual equivalents enabling full exploitation of her special *Gifts* for Mathematics and Scientific Inquiry. Her ultimate reward was successful M>F transition and even higher levels of human achievement

***
CopyQuote From Lynn Conway
"Lynn Conway's Retrospective
PART IV: ON TO SUCCESS


" - - looking back on these years, I see now that I benefited tremendously from my earlier experiences in climbing, in my transition, and in generally doing many things that had to be done even though I was very frightened at the time - - those daring adventures in the past seemed to provide me with almost magical powers during the peak VLSI years - - I was able to just go do stuff that almost no one else would have had the nerve to do - -

- - - but something else had happened by then too - - it was now some years since my second pubertal passage, and I'd been in the new female social, emotional, physical and hormonal regime for quite a while now - - I began to sense that my mental powers had greatly expanded in important new dimensions - - it's hard to put a finger on it, but I was just ever so much more imaginative and creative than before transition - - especially noticing that I had vastly improved capabilities at visualizing and mentally simulating complex social interactions - - "

Lynn Conway

***
CopyQuote From Napolean Hill
" THINK & GROW RICH
Napolean Hill

"TRANSMUTE - the changing or transferring of one element, or form of energy, into another ...

The emotion of sex has back of it the possibility of three constructive potentialities

They are
1) The perpetuation of mankind
2) The maintenance of health
3) The transformation of medocrity into genius through transmutation

Sex transmutation is simple and easily explained. It means the switching of the mind from thoughts of physical expression, to thoughts of some other nature

Sex desire is the most powerful of human desires. When driven by this desire, men develop keenness of imagination, courage, willpower, persistence, and creative ability unknown to them at any other times

So strong and impelling is the desire for sexual contact that men freely run the risk of life and reputation to indulge in it

When harnessed, and redirected along other lines, this motivating force maintains all of its attributes of keenness of imagination, courage etc., which may be used as powerful creative forces in literature, art, or in any other profession or calling ...

The *Transmutation* of *Sex* *Energy* calls for the *Exercise* of *Will* *Power*, to be sure, but the reward is worth the effort. The *Desire* for *Sexual* *Expression* is *Inborn* and *Natural*. The desire cannot, and should not be submerged or eliminated. But it should be given an outlet through forms of expression which ENRICH the BODY, MIND, and SPIRIT of man [(Ed note ... Blue, Red, Green)]

If not given this form of outlet, through transmutation, it will seek outlets through purely physical channels

A river may be damned, and its water controlled for a time, but eventually, it will force an outlet. The same is true of the emotion of sex. It may be submerged and controlled for a time, but its very nature causes it to be ever seeking means of expression

If it is not transmuted into some creative effort it will find a less worthy outlet ...

The emotion of sex is an "irresistable force", against which there can be no such opposition as an "immovable body". When driven by this emotion, men become gifted with a super power for action

Understand this truth, and you will catch the significance of the statement that sex transmutation contains the secret of creative ability ... "

***
~
Love / Marda

[Wen4cd]

Wow, this thread has really taken on a life of its own!

It really pains me to write any more, having already explained my intentions and reasons for blabbing my mouth off in the first place. But I'll try to respond.

(Just keep in mind that you're reading the words of someone who hates words.)



1. Coming out to the wife.

CD pseudo-expert Wen sez: "No point living with a wife who doesn't at least know, and tolerate it. IF she approves it or condones it, it's a bonus, but not a requirement. If she encourages it, beware. Crossdressing is your thing to control, not hers. And if you feel that later on you want to increase your dressing to the point where you know she will no longer approve, then it's you who must take the blame for the failure of the marriage. And if after talking with other CD's and TS people on the web or in a convention or something, you suddenly feel that you need to increase your habit, and suddenly your wife is keeping you from being your 'true self' then you got foolied, outlander."

Wen sez "me is not liking talk of "true selves" coz true selves is not something that can be thought of and talked about, but it is what you is and what you do, not what you want to be or do. thinking on true selvez leads to despair or possibly cult membership"




2. If we are not 're-educating' by conversing on these forums, than what are we offering?

unpublished self-help guru Wen sez: "It's good to talk back and forth and share experiences and ideas amongst each other, but not so good to try to educate people. Trying to educate corrupts the education into sinister diabolical mind control. Cos all of a sudden you're not practising, you're preaching. preaching isn't good (which is why I feel like crap even writing this) These forums are (in my mind) a place to see how people are living, how they deal with their own lives, and how they treat other people.

I'm thnking something like this as an example: A new poster comes on and says "Hey, how do I tell my wife what I do?" One person says, "Well, I did this, and this happened" another person says "Well, I did that, and this happened." It's ideas based on experience, nice. The person can decide to take or leave it, knowing that it's from another person, nBnW.

What I don't like (and maybe you do, so no offense, right?) are responses that say "Well, Helen Boyd says this, and my advice column says that, and Dr. Lance Jerkoff PHD wrote this little quote in his self-help book for crossdressers, which I will now paste into the page for you to ponder."
The poster with the problem now has an unnecessary weight attatched to his advice.
I don't know the exact reason it leaves a bad taste, but maybe because it's usually second-hand mumbo-jumbo from an insincere source."

comment of Zen-Wen's inner voice "me not liking people who write books and call themselves experts, especially when they be prostituting their own marriage by exposing it in a nonfiction book and trying to sell it for money and fame and recognition, what kind of a wife would do this? Not one I would listen to. Me wouldn't even expose my soft, absorbent little brain to ideas from these kind of books, even to just be able to comment on them. me don't know if they are good ideas or not, and considering the source, me don't want to know"

I'm so not "well-read" that I know that I'm at least trying to be sincere, clever wordsmithing be damned!

yadda yadda mumble mumble incoherent babble (fades away into creepy, icky silence........there'a a sign-post up ahead in the headlights....you strain to read it through the pounding rain on the windshield.....it says "PLEASE IGNORE THE SILLY CLOWN")

[Stelli]

Dear everyone,

I can't believe that I missed this thread. Marda, your language again is too cryptic for me. I bypassed the title, because I thought it was something that belonged in the personals. Stelli drew my attention to this thread as we talked today on the telephone.

<<<<SNIP>>>>

Jodi Artemis

Thank you Jodi, this is excellent point. I agree from the depth of my soul. But excuse my ignorance relationship is two way street. And from the human rights perspective a person should be free to express its own personality. And this is global view - that trascedent religion, upbringing/education, policies or social engineering*.


* Social engineering is used in its secondary meaning, not established one.

[Marda]

Hi TGirls
~
As my Dearly Beloved Dad would say ...
"If you ask Marda *what time it is*
She'll tell you *how to build a clock*" !
~
Love / Marda

[Marda]

Hey Wen,
~
All *Clownin'* Aside ...
If you didn't speak *Your Mind* ...
folks like me (*KaleidaScopicVision*) probably wouldn't know what's "on it" ...
Sometimes it sounds like your *angry* ... sometimes *sad* ... sometimes like you're *hurtin'* ... maybe I haven't been around long enough to *Hear You Laugh* ...
Maybe *One Reason* *Both Of Us Come Here* is because *Both Of Us* have become *Real P!$$%#* with the way we've been treated in the *other world* ???
Maybe it would be *Good* if others *Borrowed A Page* from your *Book* :-)
Just thoughtz ...
~
Love / Marda

[HillaryArtemis]

You know among my heroes in life I count Johnathan Swift and Dr. Samuel Johnson. Perhaps I am too acerbic, but I do love the smell and taste of vinegar. I used eat bags and bags of those darling Salt and Vinegar Chips even today they are more addictive than any drug I can ever remember from my long gone by high school days.

Actually when I explained my post to my wife this morning, she blasted into me and said how can you tell other people what they should do about their situations. You lied to me for six years. Then she recalled I first dressed fully for her a week after our marriage and I worn her clothes around the our small apartment for weeks before our marriage. I tried at that time, but as she reminded me her initial reaction was quite shocked and negative - so I shut it out from her for six years. When I opened again, she was ready and so was I. This example reminds me that neither all CDs or their wives are at the same stage of acceptance or should I say enlightenment about their condition. I believe that we are all on a type of journal toward this enlightenment which will make us better. So, I will stand by my words - I believe that we should not shut out our wives. But take it slowly ... educate slowly. If it is that important to us to dress, then we should share it - the whys, why nots, hows, etc ...

As for the issue of authoritys and Dr. Peckerhead ... well ... Wen, I hope that as adults .... enlightened ones .... that we would be able accept or reject things that are written whether they are from outside sources or just ourselves. Quoting sources can encourage people to read books ... reading books is a great idea ... people can be alone for long periods of time mediating on authors words ... I believe that the art and act of reading has many great advantages over the Internet. I don't quote Boyd to make others think that I wear thick glasses or to zap them into some sort of following this or that. Let's get others reading. CDing doesn't have a rich tradition of texts yet, but here is a new and interesting one. Anyway, Wen, I understand your view point, but I disagree with it. You are entitled to try and change my mind. As I said before, I respect and admire you, Wen.

I apologize for my somewhat acidy tone, I really am glad that no one has called me a bitch or *****. I wouldn't like that so much, because I try to be the best I can be - but alas only human am I. Just dust and bone like us all. I guess that maybe you consider me Ophelia or perhaps Lady Macbeth, but I really would much rather be like Mary Shelley.

In closing, I will retract my tone, restate my belief in education, restate my belief in sharing ourselves with our SO, blow you all a kiss and long to be with you all around a table someday.

JodiArtemis

[Wen4cd]

I hope that as adults .... enlightened ones .... that we would be able accept or reject things that are written whether they are from outside sources or just ourselves. Quoting sources can encourage people to read books ...

I hould hope that, too. But unfortunately it's not the case. People worship books, because they used to be associated with knowledge.

If you say that peanut butter and bananna sandwiches cure cold sores, people's first reaction is to doubt it, and possibly later experiment with it.

But if it's in a book, or on TV, they will take it that it is from an authoritative source, and tend to accept it with less question.

Aside from the occasional one-line quip, I won't quote anybody I don't know personally, or anybody who wouldn't quote me in return. If Napolean Hill (whomever that is) wants to write wordy essays on 'transmutation of sexual emotion" that's fine, but I don't need to ponder his crafty wordsmithing to understand his 'truth', because he's only regurgitating an age-old concept that every artist already understands about passion and creation, only he's using his eloquent vocabulary to take the magic and beauty out of it, making it sound like a primal breeding function instead of inspiration.


I'm so proud of him for being able to convince people of things they already know. But he deserves getting cited for this?

Bah, humbug.

Oh, and in response to Marda's post about the genetically altered work-a-holic monkeys, all I can say is: "Where are you, Unabomber, when we need you the most?!?!"

[HillaryArtemis]

You know Erica, I love those chips so much that I can't physically stop myself from eating a bag once they are opened. Unfortunately, I have to admit that I have actually consumed 454gs of these chips at one sitting. I feel it later, but I can't stop it. I have learned to control so much in my life, but my cravings for these go so deep.

Oh Wen, I am not sure what to say about your mistrust of books - yes, TV and the media I can understand. How can you learn anything if you don't know someone personally who knows something that you don't know? Wen I think we should agree to disagree here. I will stop it now, girl.

Erica, tell me a salty story about your passion for these chips. They are so bad and yet so good. Your mention of them just makes me want to go buy a whole bag and eat every chip. I even sometimes lick the bag dry - now that's gross. If they didn't have such physical consequences on my body, I would eat them at every meal.

JodiArtemis

[Wen4cd]

Just chalk it up to my insanity. :)

I'm happy if you're happy. And the last thing I want is to make anyone agree with me, honestly. I'm not looking for converts or anything.

[HillaryArtemis]

Oh Wen. I could just kiss you, dear.

:D
JodiArtemis

[Stelli]

This text has been quoted a lot and I find it very good as to alternative view how someone may precieve the world.

As to reply to "education" discussion I invite you to read and comment (see chapter "Education" in the text):

http://subsol.c3.hu/subsol_2/contributors0/warktext.html

As for overall text, question that arises in my mind is: Are we here hacking into CD???

[Marda]

... and there was light."
~
"PLATO'S CAVE

Human beings have a knack of getting trapped in webs of their own creation. ... examine ... the ways this occurs by exploring the idea of organizations as psychic prisons. This metaphor joins the idea that organizations are psychic phenomena, in the sense that they are ultimately created and sustained by conscious and unconscious processes, with the notion that people can actually become imprisoned or confined by the images, ideas, thoughts, and actions to which these processes give rise. The metaphor encourages us to understand that while organizations may be socially constructed realities, these constructions are often attributed an existence and power of their own that allow them to exercise a measure of control over their creators.

The idea of a psychic prison was first explored in Plato's "Republic" in the famous allegory of the cave where Socrates addresses the relations among appearance, reality and knowledge. The allegory pictures an underground cave with its mouth open toward the light of a blazing fire. Within the cave are people chained so that they cannot move. They can see only the cave wall directly in front of them. This is illuminated by the light of the fire, which throws shadows of people and objects onto the wall. The cave dwellers equate the shadows with reality, naming them, talking about them, and even linking sounds from outside the cave with the movement on the wall. Truth and reality for the prisoners rest in this shadowy world, because they have no knowledge of any other.

However, as Socrates relates, if one of the inhabitants were allowed to leave the cave, he would realize that the shadows are but dark reflections of a more complex reality, and that the knowledge and perceptions of his fellow cave dwellers are distorted and flawed. If he were then to return to the cave, he would never be able to live in the old way, since for him the world would be a very different place. No doubt he would find difficulty in accepting his confinement, and would pity the plight of his fellows. However, if he were to try and share his new knowledge with them, he would probably be ridiculed for his views. For the cave prisoners, the familiar images of the cave would be much more meaningful than any story about a world they had never seen. Moreover, since the person espousing this new knowledge would now no longer be able to act with conviction in relation to the shadows, his fellow inmates would no doubt view his knowledge as being extremely dangerous. They would probably regard the world outside the cave as a potential source of danger, to be avoided rather than embraced as a source of wisdom and insight. The experience of the person who left the cave could thus actually lead the cave dwellers to tighten their grip on their familiar way of seeing.

The cave stands for the world of appearance and the journey outside stands for the ascent to knowledge. People in everyday life are trapped by illusions, hence the way they understand reality is limited and flawed. By appreciating this, and by making a determined effort to see beyond the superficial, people have an ability to free themselves from imperfect ways of seeing. However, as the allegory suggests, many of us often ridicule efforts at enlightenment, preferring to remain in the dark rather than to risk exposure to a new world and its threat to the old ways."

" IMAGES OF ORGANIZATION "
GARETH MORGAN
~
Love / Marda

[HillaryArtemis]

:D Oh, my stars, girl, you read my mind. That is exactly whaty I was going to right. :D

JodiArtemis

[Marda]

~
"Napolean Hill's Code Of Ethics"
copy from www_naphill.org
"
1.I believe in the Golden Rule as the basis of all human conduct; therefore, I will never do to another person that which I would not be willing for that person to do to me if our positions were reversed.

2.I will be honest, even to the slightest detail, in all my transactions with others, not only because of my desire to be fair with them, but because of my desire to impress the idea of honesty on my own subconscious mind, thereby weaving this essential quality into my own character.

3.I will forgive those who are unjust toward me, with no thought as to whether they deserve it or not, because I understand the law through which forgiveness of others strengthens my own character and wipes out the effects of my own transgressions in my subconscious mind.

4.I will be just, generous, and fair with others always-even though I know that these acts will go unnoticed and unrewarded in the ordinary terms of reward-because I understand that one’s own character is but the sum total of his own acts and deeds.

5.Whatever time I may have to devote to the discovery and exposure of the weaknesses and faults of others I will devote, more profitably, to the discovery and correction of my own.

6.I will slander no person-no matter how much I may believe another person may deserve it-because I wish to plant no destructive suggestions in my own mind.

7.I recognize the power of thought as being an inlet leading into my brain from the universal ocean of life; therefore, I will set no destructive thoughts afloat upon that ocean lest they pollute the minds.

8.I will conquer the common human tendency toward hatred, envy, selfishness, jealousy, malice, pessimism, doubt, and fear - for I believe these to be the seeds from which the world harvests most.

9.When my mind is not occupied with thoughts that tend toward the attainment of my definite goal in life, I will voluntarily keep it filled with thoughts of courage, self-confidence, goodwill toward others, faith, kindness, loyalty, love for truth, and justice-for I believe these to be the seeds from which the world reaps its harvest of progressive growth.

10.Because I know that my character is developed from my own acts and thoughts, I will guard with care all that goes into its development.

11.Because I realize that enduring happiness comes only through helping others find it, and that no act of kindness is without its reward, even though it may never be directly repaid, I will do my best to assist others when and where the opportunity appears."

*© 2002 The Napoleon Hill Foundation. All rights reserved.
~
Love / Marda