Do We Stay Or Do We Go ? !!!!!!!

[Sheila]

Having been a visitor to this section for around a year now, given the journey I am taking with Debs, I have perhaps become more aware of the painful steps you need to take in order to complete your own personal journeys and once or twice I have noticed the apparent disposablity of friends and relatives, and not always from them doing the disposing of.



i have tons of support, and ALL my friends are staying friends...now that i'm really in the next stage of transition, and frankly, i'm finding that carrying all those friendships is baggage..

its good baggage in the sense that i feel liked and loved, my friends and I have enjoyed good times...but it holds me back as a woman!!!...





Personally, I feel uncomfortable around friends that knew me as man prior to transition...I don't know what it is, or why, but it's just the way it is....and I'm pretty sure they feel the same way...

But do feel very comfortable around people who've only known me as Karen, and believe they feel likewise..just less awkward for everyone..

those are just a few quotes on the disposablity of friendship and relationships I have seen over the 12 months I have been visiting here and those hurt my heart, they have also lead me to question my apparent relationships/friendships with those undertaking this journey now ............. what happens at the end ............ do you move on walking away to begin your life as the woman you grew into ............ are we just there as crutches till you reach your Utopia, are we expected to stand on the shore waving you onwards, do you sail away into your bright new dawn with no thought for those who have been friends for years, is the journey we shared with you (despite the struggles and sleepless nights you gave us, the worrying we did on your behalf and for you) worth nothing, or are we expected to chin up, chest out in support of you one last time as you embark on this magical journey from here on in alone save for the new friends who now only know you as you ................ do we weep for the friend/loved one we lose, or do we cheer you on as you march proudly into this magic life.

So do we jump ship now before you decide you no longer need us in your life, thus saving us perhaps years of torture and heartbreak, losing friends and relatives along the way beside you ............ for when you go forth into your new life with your new friends, who do we have left standing with us ........... we lost many people along they way as we stood side by side with you, we did it out of love, are we fools ???

[Karen564]

I can honestly say, and may God strike me dead now, I have NEVER used anyone (family or friends) to serve as my security blanket during my transition..
I never burdened my friends or family with my transition problems because they have enough to worry about...and I hate doing that to people..

My wife & I divorced way before she knew of my problems being TS, we had other problems that were non TG related..and frankly thought it was in everyones best interest for her to be free of me..I knew my future would not coincide with her wishes nor mine in the end, so I saw an out, and I took it..

[kellycan27]

As far as family, sadly there is just my mom. Most of my friends have grown up with my female persona, and I work, play, and interact with them almost on a daily basis. I guess the easiest way to describe it would be to say that they have transitioned right along with me. My being a TS has ceased to be an issue with them... it's old news. I have nothing to nor do I desire to hide anything from these people, because I love and trust them... Why would I want to turn my back on them? I am free to be me and I have learned that almost all of my insecurities are due to me, and not what the outside world thinks about me. Iam having the time of my life right now and I think I owe a good part of that to my wonderful friends and co- workers.


Kel

[Rianna Humble]

Although I understand the point you are making, I think you may not have chosen the best illustrations.

I'm sorry to say that I feel you are being quite unfair to Kaitlyn in the excerpt that you chose to quote. She explains exactly how those old friends are holding her back and I would have to agree with her that comments like "dude, you haven't changed that much!" do not help her to develop as a woman.

She is not saying that those people who have helped her find her true destiny (such as friends on this forum) are holding her back, but rather those who have been supportive but persist in regarding her as one of the blokes.

I can also understand how Karen might feel uncomfortable around those who used to relate to her as a man, because neither she nor they can easily work out the new dynamics of their relationship. On the other hand, she does not have that problem with people who only have known her since she transitioned.

I agree with you that there are some who seem content to sail off into the sunset almost as soon as the immediate pain of their transition has passed, and that can hurt the people who have loved and supported them and are now left behind.

When someone invests their time and energy in helping another to achieve their potential and then gets left behind it does hurt, but sometimes in my past life when that happened I just had to remind myself that I wanted what was best for that person and if that meant leaving me behind then so be it.

Rather than allow ourselves to dwell on the hurt of those who need to cast adrift, let's concentrate our thoughts on those who do stick around and continue to be, not only good friends, but also valuable contributors to those who are coming behind.

[ReineD]

I see your point Sheila and I thought about those comments too. I'm hoping that the posters were referring to the more casual friendships, not the lifelong, supportive, soul-mate friends (most of us have very few of those .. the people who do have our welfare at heart), or our families.

I've moved many times in my life, across vast distances in two different countries and I've had friendships which seemed so close at the time. But people do drift apart. I maintained some friendships that despite all our best intentions did slowly fade with time. Other people came into my life as did theirs. It's just a part of the cyclical nature of change and I don't know that it is something that is particular to transitioning.

[kellycan27]

The only way that I can see people holding me back from being a woman would be mine to own. it would be something in my head rather than than someone else's actions or words. I am very content with who I am, and figuring out that it was my own personal demons and not others who were to blame for any insecurities that I felt.:strugglin

Kel

[Sheila]

Rianna those quotes are just that quotes not to be taken as personal attacks or as insults by those I have quoted, the forum is littered by phrases such as those, and I in no way intend for those to be used as a basis for attacking anyone.

Life is seldom fair as i am sure you are aware, but sometimes we all wonder what the future holds and Karen herself does say she feel uncomfortable around friends who knew her as a male and BELIEVES (does not say knows for sure just believes) they feel the same way, and she does say she feel more comfortable around people who have only known her as Karen.

Now I thought long and hard before I started this thread, because I knew no matter how I worded it I would end up upsetting some, but it is one of the hard things about going on this journey with Debs and doing so willingly .............. will she one day feel more comfortable with only friends who knew her as Debs and will I then become a disposable asset, i guess only time will tell ............ BTW she is not the only TS who's journey I or in this case, we are sharing, we have friends who are further along this road than us, we also have friends who are just starting out so are a tiny way behind us at this stage, I & we may stand to lose said friendships if some of the things I have read here are true, I/we may well be lucky in that we have chosen our friends well and with wisdom and our friendships will not only remain intact but will strengthen and grow as we change and grow ......... that would be wonderful and attainable in an ideal world, but unfortunately we do not live in that Utopia, so in reality we may lose some friends (BTW I already have lost one good friend on my journey with Debs already, neither of us to blame, but circumstances being what they were at the time, for both of us to progress we needed the space to deal with things in our own way, remaining friends at that time may have harmed both of us and our futures ......... I regret that loss & although neither of us chose it it happened & sometimes the gap becomes to wide to be filled :sad:)

For those of you who feel I may be attacking people personally please be assured I am not, why would I want to do that when many of you will I hope be part of the journey we are already taking, remember folks this is the internet, we live continents apart, our language while similar is very different (perhaps ) on too many occasions. My intention is/was not to cause dissent hurt pain or grief, but perhaps to wonder out loud where my journeys end will lead me and other supporters to :straightface:

[Kaitlyn Michele]

no offense taken, although i think by pulling the words that you chose out, and by underlining some of the words, you made my post say something TOTALLY AND COMPLETELY DIFFERENT!! than what i was communicating...:heehee:

i was responding to teri's post about feeling left behind by a friend... i was expressing that it wasnt necessarily a bad thing...i did use the word baggage, but to me,
"good" was the operative word relating to it...
it's good baggage, i don't see how you could quote me and leave that emphasis out..

i was making a rhetorical point...i would never ever turn my back on a friend, not any friend, not for any reason...and i never have...as evidenced by the fact that all my friends stuck by me..that's a testament to them and to me! and i'm proud of it...:o

i post alot of words and i'm pretty quick on the trigger sometimes, so my heart at the time ends up on my sleeve..

i think what i left out of that post (and i did it because i was more about making the point to teri) was that life is full of trade offs...

for me...
i've traded a fully formed female life, which is something that i was born to have, but something i will never have..... for the love and friendship that i've enjoyed my entire life...that's my choice,,i get something vital and life giving, but the cost to me is dear...i let my brother call me dude for crying out loud...i let my brothers daughter call my srs "snip-snip", i let my sister condescendingly tell about my make up (when mine is clearly better :heehee:), i let my friends ask me about my "rack" or whether i've ever "done a guy", i let my ex basically say and do anything she wants-heh... these all feel like indignities to me...would you suffer them to keep your indisposable friendships??

i was pointing out that if friends walk away, they are making a choice for you , and its not the end of the world..there is another side to the coin.

i'm sorry if anyone is in a relationship where you feel disposable, but i can assure that no one in my life is disposable to me, and i'm pretty sure nobody feels i've abandoned them in any way..:..so leave me out of it..
hugs:

[Sheila]

Kaitlyn I did put the word Good in the qoute, it may not have been highlighted but i did not leave it out either, I am sorry if you feel i am being unfair or unjust, but i do believe we all have the right to say things as we see them so long as we are not abusive or attack others while doing so.

TY for the :hugs: and have one back as seriously no intention was meant to hurt or harm you :hugs:


Sheila

[Karen564]

and Karen herself does say she feel uncomfortable around friends who knew her as a male and BELIEVES (does not say knows for sure just believes) they feel the same way, and she does say she feel more comfortable around people who have only known her as Karen.



I hate to be picky, but I said that I was "pretty sure" they feel the same way....Not " believed" , and when I said that, I only say that because of the vibes I've gotten....since I knew these people very well before, and it doesn't take rocket science to know when a relationship is not the same or feels awkward..
I've had a gift (or curse) of being able to read people very well all my life...but that doesn't mean I'm obligated to call them on it and make them feel even more uncomfortable about, because I feel sometimes things are better off left unsaid to let them drift away in a peaceful manner, than let out a bunch of ugly emotions....I'd much rather remember them in a good way, and them of me than part our ways in disappointment or anger..


I said I "believe" when referring to how others felt about me as Karen....Umm, maybe I'm being optimistic & should of said hope they do..but like I said, I can read people pretty well.. I know when someone is genuine or not..

As far as family, they are my blood, and blood is thicker than water...and I even include my Ex as my own blood, even though she's not...But she is the mother of my girls and will always be a part of my life & theirs regardless that we no longer live together...It's been 5 years since we parted our ways, but she will still call on me today when she needs help, and I would do the same if I needed help, so we are still there for each other through thick & thin....
How many divorced couples do you know of that the EX would help one another?
Most all I known tell the other to F*** off..

I know that you are not singling me out, and completely understand what your saying......and in fact have posted on this very site many, many times before of my concerns & worries for the spouse because of just what your saying here, and I'm usually attacked for saying such a thing when I'm sticking up for the unspoken & unknowing wife..

I don't know Kaitlyn that well, but enough to know she's been in the same boat as myself....and is also a good hearted person that thinks of others feelings before her own...just as I do when it comes to family..
So please don't misconstrue who we are based on what we write here alone...I really don't think either of us are what you think or good examples for your topic....not at all..:straightface:

[Kaitlyn Michele]

:hugs: I think sharing feelings is what this is all about...i want to be clear about my own feelings (which are still quite raw)...i appreciate your point of view....your feelings are valid too...our perspectives are necessarily different

people have invested alot of time in my life and vice versa...just like you invested your time with your SO

i am truly sorry to everyone that feels hurt by me or "betrayed" by me. i made people take a risk on me. in the end, i couldnt feel terrible all the time anymore, so i made a huge change

i think lots of transsexuals do not transition because they cannot take the risk and they just feel terrible all the time...

i am not talking about folks that transitioned very early and didnt invest alot of other peoples time....

so sheila i want to hug you and tell you i hear you...it is sad and its unfair...

[rufus rabbit]

Well i'm jumping in now.... as someone who has been a member of this site for a year, however only keeping to very small sections of it, mainly for my own safety and fears of saying the wrong thing... the one thing i have found is that people come and go!!!! but that is life.... i think we all head for places in our life when we need it the most.. we head back to our roots when life gets tough when we are small and when we grow up we head for our safety net... I have just found a BBF from school we have not spoken for almost 20 years and its different now, but she got me through a sucide attemp and i got her through her dad dying... both massive parts of young teenagers lives... I have thought about her alot over the past years and finding her now is the icing on the cake. But the reality is we are not 15 anymore living the dreams we had... we are adults now living the life we do..

Anyway i am rambling what i am trying to say is yes we all come and go .... some stay longer some don't but on here just for a few moments in the day.. i know that there are people who i can say OMG help me... or I can answer someone... I hope that means that along this journey i make friends real friends who i can say sorry to and i've been a fool, also ones i can say i think your wrong or right and i hope that for the time that our paths cross that our friendships grow and as we move around we come back to share... :hugs:

[StaceyJane]

i think lots of transsexuals do not transition because they cannot take the risk and they just feel terrible all the time....

That descibes me exactly.

[Rebeccarabbit]

Hi All,

I joined this forum on the advice of my SO rr. I joined because I was alone in my feelings, and what I was. I have until now spent some 35years alone, with this urge, desire, and desperate want locked away in my head......... (you all know that feeling whether your a CD/TV/SO/TS/GG/GF/TG, there are many abbreviations take your pick)......

I come here because I needed friends that understood and knew what it was like, who I could share feelings with, more than that I wanted a family.

I am a veteran of the Falklands, and Northern Ireland, in my time I lost quite a few friends at a young age too. My adopted birth sister commited suicide and hung herself, a year after i found my birth mum. there are lots of sad stories im sure we all carry, of people that needed support and help.......

Every year at remembrance sunday i make a new vow "to live my life as my friends would have liked to live thiers"

Sure I rebelled against masulinity, I chose my female side, I think the only reason I joined the forces was to prove I was a man to those around me.

What I learnt though was the true value of friendship, care, and support......we all need it. Its kinda ironic that at this stage in life, and because of my divorce I have very few genuine friends.........

Life is what you make it, enjoy, be happy, and make friends.......take it from me, because the day you loose them, you really really miss them

[Rianna Humble]

Rianna those quotes are just that quotes not to be taken as personal attacks or as insults by those I have quoted, the forum is littered by phrases such as those, and I in no way intend for those to be used as a basis for attacking anyone.

If I gave the impression that I thought you were attacking anybody, then please forgive me. However, if the only point of the words was to give a generic example, perhaps they would have worked better without attribution.


Now I thought long and hard before I started this thread, because I knew no matter how I worded it I would end up upsetting some, but it is one of the hard things about going on this journey with Debs and doing so willingly .............. will she one day feel more comfortable with only friends who knew her as Debs and will I then become a disposable asset, i guess only time will tell ............

I sincerely doubt that you will become a disposable asset in Debs' life any more than she will become one in yours.

I believe that I do understand the general point that you were making as it happened to me in my former life. At that time, I reminded myself that sometimes I have to let go. It didn't make the disappointment go away, but it helped me to come to terms with it.

There is a song that those of my generation might just about remember which contains the words "pick yourself up, dust yourself off, start all over again". On several occasions I have had to do that after having invested myself in a friendship.

I guess that is one of the reasons why I feel I can count my true friends on one hand.


we have friends who are further along this road than us, we also have friends who are just starting out so are a tiny way behind us at this stage, I & we may stand to lose said friendships if some of the things I have read here are true, I/we may well be lucky in that we have chosen our friends well and with wisdom and our friendships will not only remain intact but will strengthen and grow as we change and grow ......... that would be wonderful and attainable in an ideal world, but unfortunately we do not live in that Utopia, so in reality we may lose some friends

I truly hope that you have chosen wisely.

In the relatively short time I have been here, I have seen people whom I respected saying that it was time they cut themselves off from the TG community and got on with their lives. I have regretted this each time, but who am I to say that they were right or wrong?


My intention is/was not to cause dissent hurt pain or grief, but perhaps to wonder out loud where my journeys end will lead me and other supporters too :straightface:

In the end, your journey will take you somewhere you may not have imagined, and there will have been pain along the way, but hopefully, there will also be joy to at least match if not outweigh the pain.

I try not to dwell on past disappointments but to look for the good and to build on that. I see much good on these forums, including your own contributions.

As I have said, I regret those who have chosen to "sail off into the sunset", but I also rejoice at those who stick around and give so much back to this community.

[Stephanie Anne]

To each their own. I have some really close friends that are seriously transphobic only because it is socially ok to be so, not because they have issues with trans people.

If they have a problem that is with them and I am not going to hold back something that would surely destroy me mentally if I tried to.

Then again that is me and some people let go at different levels.

I will say we by nature are a touchy bunch of b&*$hes my self being a queen of b&*$h-a-tude so emotions run high in our kind I guess and conflicts can easily boil over when those close to us conflict with our need to transition.

My only hurdle with being full time right now is my job is an uncertainty if I come out to them and as such is requiring me to delay telling them until such time as I can no longer present as male. No way no how am I going to let friends and family stop me from fixing my little oversight in the great karmic cr&pshoot of life.

Oh and Sheila... Why are you not having a pic of yourself in your avatar? I like seeing you in your avatar and salmon just does not do it for me.

[kellycan27]

As I have said, I regret those who have chosen to "sail off into the sunset", but I also rejoice at those who stick around and give so much back to this community.

Why would you regret those who have found their way and have gone off to live their lives as they see fit? Isn't this what we are working towards. Are we to wear the TS label forever so that we can "give back"? I don't know.. maybe this is what some are alluding to as far as being held back???

Kel

[Empress Lainie]

After all these responses, feel a little uncertain about whether or not to put in my view, but guess I will anyway. I am not known for shyness anywhere.

I feel like I am completely a woman even without srs. I have had unconditional support from nearly everyone that knew me before my "miraculous" one-day transition in 2007. I have no discomfort from being around people I knew "before." They have always treated me like the lady I am. I do feel sad that (no actually have been heart broken) that my social worker EX cannot bring herself to see the real me. I have never dumped anyone in my life that has befriended or loved me. And I do make an allowance for someone who has known the previous me for 70 years occasionally lapsing in to the wrong pronoun or name. I will remind them, but it is not a big deal as I KNOW who I am.

[Traci Elizabeth]

I think Sheila has a better grasp of reality than we want to own up to.

Life is hardly ever a smooth friction free highway with unlimited speeds and picturesque views. And as one member wrote some weeks ago, "we all loose everyone in the end!"

Our great-grand parents are usually the first to go, then our grand-parents, our parents, uncles, aunts, brothers, sisters, and sometimes children. Friends come as go like the wind. Jobs change, we move from here to there. We love and love again, We meet the perfect mate until the next one happens along unexpectedly.

There are no guarantees. No promise of tomorrow.

All we can be thankful for and can hold on to that NO ONE can take away are our memories and "NOW!"

As hard as you try to steer the ship over the oceans of life, sooner or later you will realize you are not the captain this this vessel you are on.

Worry NOT if you will be left behind but rejoice in "NOW" and always hold on to the "positive memories" that those who have traveled with you on your journey have given you.

Sheila, I understand your fears and concerns. But if you have been the benefactor of precious memories, love, and intimate sharing mentally or physically, what more could you really ask for in anyone.

As long as you two are on the same ship following the currents of life, "rejoice" no matter how short or long the journey.

No one can predict tomorrow with certainty. We only have today. Don't fill those precious moments with fear of what might be.

[pamela_a]

Shelia, I think I understand what you're trying to ask and I believe it's a valid question.
The only thing I can say is IMO you can remove the reference to being TS and transitioning and ask the same question about any friendship or relationship.
I know the pain of helping a friend get through difficult times only to have them walk completely out of my life when everything is better. I've also had people I'd believed to be friends who have just drifted away over time, only to reject me when I try to reconnect with them since I've transitioned.

I realize that here we focus on 1 aspect but there are so many things that can result in the same thing happening. Not that it makes it any better or easier to deal with if it happens but it's not unique to transitioning.

Why some things happen in life nobody knows. People you expect to be with you forever end up
leaving while others you figured were "fair weather" friends become lifelong companions.
I've come to the realization I can only be the best friend I can be and if something bad happens to the relationship I can at least take heart that I've been the best friend I could be to help me deal with the loss.

Take all of the love, joy, and happiness you can today. Tomorrow will come with all of it's challenges soon enough and all of the worrying about it today won't change tomorrow anyway.

:hugs::hugs:

[AllieSF]

Sheila, thanks for the thought provoking question. I have asked that same question to myself in two of my past relationships. It is interesting to me hearing it from the GG point of view. My experiences happened before I ever took up this current wonderful and life complicating hobby of mine. When I was truly in love with someone who I never expected would love me back, I always had these hidden doubts and insecurities that would pop up from time to time and almost ruin the romantic relationship high that I was experiencing. I finally learned to ignore it and really did enjoy life more ..... for a time! Eventually, what I dreaded most actually occurred, and, of course, I was totally unprepared for it. I was actually better prepared for the worse before I learned push back my original worries. That one really hurt me and I wonder even today if I have ever really gotten over the pain of that time of my life almost 12 years ago. Do I think that it happens to everyone, no, not really. However, I do think that sometimes our sub-conscious is a lot smarter and more perceptive than we give it credit. I wish you the best in dealing with all this.

[Karen564]

All I have to say is, God didn't strike me down, I'm still here...and that I'm F n pissed..:Angry3:

Next time you want to quote something of mine, do it in the thread it was written in before you go throwing it out of context for a totally different subject..

I'm sorry, but that's how I feel right now..

[Beth-Lock]

It appears to be the big question when you make a truly major change in your life, for the good or for the opposite:
You have to choose between staying loyally with your friends and following what seems to be your destiny.
You should not close yourself off to others, in anger or hatred, but you may have to move on for the best of reasons.
The personal question in every TG's consideration, is, "Is it worth it?" not to mention, "Was it necessary?" In my case I am haunted by the feeling that my transition may not have been necessary, since being a male was not killing me literally. The transition may not have been worth it either, considering the troubles I have put myself through. For others whose life as a male had become absolutely and literally unbearable, there may have been no real choice. At least I never married and never put a spouse or even anyone even distantly approaching girl friend status through it. That was something I took into consideration at the time.
There is no way of getting around this momentous question, and ignoring that it is there. How we handle it is likely to bring out our weakness and selfishness much as many other, lesser challenges in life do.
On the other end of it, those dealing with how a TG handles this decision, may also show the flaws we all have in reacting to it negatively. It is never nice to expose our character flaws to the world, but that is the reality of hard decisions where there are trade-offs to handle, inherent in the reality of it.
This is the elephant in the room of most TG's, their friends and relatives. It is the dark side of the process. I am not even sure that talking about it helps. But the cat is out of the bag now, isn't it?

[Rianna Humble]

I regret those who have chosen to "sail off into the sunset", but I also rejoice at those who stick around and give so much back to this community.
Why would you regret those who have found their way and have gone off to live their lives as they see fit? Isn't this what we are working towards. Are we to wear the TS label forever so that we can "give back"? I don't know.. maybe this is what some are alluding to as far as being held back???

Kel

I did not say that I am disappointed with those who have chosen to "sail off into the sunset", as I had said earlier in the same post, I just have to let go. That does not mean that I cannot regret the loss of their friendship - or for those I do not know well enough to have become their friend the loss of their acquaintance.

I was not aware that every person who posts on this forum had to be or to label themselves TS, thank you for pointing that out to me. I must have been mistaken when I thought that I read that everyone was welcome here whether or not they identify themselves as TS.

[kellycan27]

I did not say that I am disappointed with those who have chosen to "sail off into the sunset", as I had said earlier in the same post, I just have to let go. That does not mean that I cannot regret the loss of their friendship - or for those I do not know well enough to have become their friend the loss of their acquaintance.

I was not aware that every person who posts on this forum had to be or to label themselves TS, thank you for pointing that out to me. I must have been mistaken when I thought that I read that everyone was welcome here whether or not they identify themselves as TS.

No body, including me said that you weren't welcome and I never made any reference to non transsexuals I don't know where you got that notion, and I didn't say "disappointed" either, I used your own words... "regret" and "giving back". It was a very simple question that seems to have offended you and I am not sure why. Be that as it may, your efforts to paint me as non accepting of others was not lost on me. Those words have no merit and IMHO... they were a cheap shot for what gain.... I have no clue

[Rianna Humble]

Are we to wear the TS label forever so that we can "give back"?


I never made any reference to non transsexuals I don't know where you got that notion

The obvious implication from your earlier post was that anyone posting here had to "wear the TS label"

For the second time, you have totally ignored what I actually wrote - which was about regretting the loss of a friendship

[Sharon]

We have wandered way off the topic of the thread and are getting quarrelsome with one another. "Did too," "Did not," "Says you...," ARRRGH!!

This thread is done and now either go into your respective corners or kiss and make up with one another.

Go on! Now!! You heard me!!! And just wait until your father gets home! :kickbutt: