Going to work in a skirt!?

[Gingerbread]

I am an engineer (electrical) I have always wondered what would happen if I were to show up at work on day in my girl mode? Has anyone ever done this? Also what were the consequences? Would I get fired? What if I wanted to go as in girl clothes sometimes and in drab at other times? Sometimes its hot and the women at work can wear skirts and sleeveless tops, but I am limited to wearing hot dress pants or jeans and a dress shirt. Could I get away with wearing a skirt? I would even wear my breasts and a wig if it helped them cope. I also feel more empowered and outgoing when I wear makeup, can I and has anyone ever wore makup t work en femme or otherwise?

I know this is a lot of questions and I am new, but thanks for all you answer's in advance!

hugs...
Dahlia

[Kathi Lake]

Dahlia, it depends on your company. Some have more lenient HR regulations than others.

If you really want to do this, (and I have to ask you why, and ensure you have asked yourself why), get with your HR department and get their feeling towards this.

Is your job secure? Is your supervisory chain tolerant? What would you gain, other than the "empowerment" you mentioned?

Kathi

[Virgin_CD]

like leak to them or get "caught" with pictures of you on the computer (not sexy ones)... and getting HR's approval (with some sort of evidence) would be imortant if you didn't want to get fired shortly... make a "trail". I saw a comedy skit recently where the guy was gay and started teaching his class B&D with his boyfriend in the hopeshe would get fired and could sue the company for millions. It was one of those sarcastic animations. But I think that is where it would go... better be very strategic... AND lucky. Plus, I'd get a hungry attorneys advice pri to and every step of the way. Esp in these days of hi unemployment. But hey, I don't know, maybe you are looking for early retirement and this is the best form of golden parachute you can get?

[linnea]

You really need to think about and ask yourself for an honest, clear answer about why you want to do this. Hot weather is not enough.
If you are sure you know why, then you need to talk with your HR department (do they already know about your CD/TG circumstances?), and you need to think about your supervisor(s) and co-workers. Are the work environment and the group of people going to be open and willing to accept what your doing in a supportive way--or at least a neutral way without reprimands or ostracism?
It may sound like fun, and it may sound like a refreshing change of pace and a more comfortable way to dress, but you do not want to jeopardize your career.
Take the appropriate steps through HR to protect yourself.

[Gingerbread]

Honestly I don't know why, I don't even know why I feel the need to put on feminine clothes, I am still trying to figure that out as well. This is just something I have thought about often.

I feel normal when I put on a skirt and pink top, like that is how I am supposed to dress.

I don't really have anything to gain by it, so to speak, but for some reason just feel like I am being fake when I wear the "dress code"

To help carify, when I am in a meeting I am generally wiewing the situation as a woman sitting there and feel like others should perceive me that way. To be honest I beleive that if I could go to work that way, it would (for me at least) complete the package (so to speak)

I will however talk to HR, when I can get up the nerve, I do beleive that they would keep it confidentail at minimum.

Thank you Kathi, I am really just at the point where I have never actually talked with people about this and want to take the next step I guess.

BTW I have seen you other posts around the forum and have always thought your look was fabulous and your posts very concise and thoughtful, it is an honor to have you reply to mine!

Dahlia

[johnthefisherman]

I saw a comedy skit recently where the guy was gay and started teaching his class B&D with his boyfriend in the hopeshe would get fired and could sue the company for millions. It was one of those sarcastic animations.

Wasn't that from South Park?

[kymmieLorain]

I know that the company I work for, actually has it in the dress policy about trans gendered people.

Kymmie

[Chickhe]

As an electrical engineer you should know that messing with the current can be dangerous and causing a shock to others will get you in a lot of trouble.

[Gingerbread]

As an electrical engineer you should know that messing with the current can be dangerous and causing a shock to others will get you in a lot of trouble.

lol, thats sooo awesome, great reply!!!

[Megan70]

Could I get away with wearing a skirt?I would even wear my breasts and a wig if it helped them cope. I also feel more empowered and outgoing when I wear makeup, can I and has anyone ever wore makeup t work en femme or otherwise?
Honestly I don't know why, I don't even know why I feel the need to put on feminine clothes, I am still trying to figure that out as well. This is just something I have thought about often
:doh:
Probably not, you'd be called into managers office , or HR and then sent home. Guaranteed.

Why in the world would you even consider wanting to do this? It sounds like a really thick pink fog day when you wrote this. Change scenario here where you are thinking this same thought on a miserably cold rainy cloudy November afternoon where you've had words with a few of your co-workers of non CD issues work related, and the thought on THAT day of dressing totally turns you off and disgust you , as it does for me and others occasionally. Would you look back and think Thank God I didn't go through with my illogical impulsive rash act that by the way will never be forgotten by co-workers , you can't take it back once the damage and I clearly mean damage to your self integrity, pride and purpose are inflicted. Never take others by surprise over a delightful pink fog "whim" as you'll live to regret it.
You can't have them unforget something they'd seen.
Quick story her about a CD friend .

A dear CD friend who is a chemist in a one man lab in and office bldg, went to his office on a Saturday night to change into his femme clothes to join us at a CD meeting. he had to swipe his pass card into the outer door of Bldg, to gain entry, A night watchman doing his rounds saw him, but my friend was able to sneak out dressed before being confronted. However the information code about him a to name, time of entry, office door number was registered now in the database,and when he can into work that next Monday morning the Bldg manager and that security guard were there waiting for him to confront him on this mysterious clandestine masquerade.
No phony costume party explanation would hold up and he was asked to vacate the property in thirty days.All his friends in surrounding offices got the word that day and it traveled like wildfire and those same people who used to go out to lunch with him and have coffee breaks now shunned him. Think long and hard, if this is something you really want to do or have to do,???? and the consequences.:sad:
Sorry about the long rant.

Megan

[Gingerbread]

I will Megan, I have never heard of the "pink fog day" yet but I like that analogy!

[Megan70]

I will Megan, I have never heard of the "pink fog day" yet but I like that analogy!
Honey you'll hear a lot of that term here. We've all been through it big time , like your idea now.
I was not trying to be critical or hard on you, but call it 'tough "sisterly" love to one, like you that should tread softly on unsure ground. All good intentions were meant... really:hugs:

[celeste26]

Gingerbread, it seems based upon the posts you've made that you really need to see a gender therapist. Please believe me that I am not trying to say you're somehow wrong just expressing some rather far advanced feelings and you need to catch up with them before going too far.

Many of us here have been dressing for decades and there is frequently that little doubt in our minds and you seem to be unaware yet of that. Or simply haven't yet expressed it.

If nothing else the time in therapy will help you decide just how far it is you want to go. It is possible that a full transition is where you really need to go and that really needs to start with a therapist.

So far everything you've expressed or that I've read of yours is well within the norm here so don't think that you are so 'out there' by yourself. Read and read some more of what others here have written. Take your time and relax a bit. There is still lots of time for all these thing to happen even for you.

[Tina2]

I would recommend against it unless you are planning to transition. If you do want to transition, talk to HR about it. They will likely be able to guide you through the rest of process of informing your co-workers.

If your company's HR department rejects your desire to transition, you will likely be able to file a lawsuite against them.

[Jamie001]

I don't see why she couldn't wear a skirt. I have seen male employees of apple computer doing this. What is the big deal? It is no different than women dressing in a masculine manner as we see daily.

[Loni]

my company could just fire me, for due cause and not in the company uniform.:doh:

be very careful and have a solid back up plan.:straightface:

it would be great...some times and at some places to just be our selves...but most of the time it is a mask that is needed most for a job.:eek:


.

[Vickie_CDTV]

I totally sympathize, and I often wish I could wear whatever I wanted to work (I am self employed but I am still beholden to my clients' expectations.) I would LOVE the idea of wearing a skirt etc. for a change. I also thing "corporate" dress codes are inherently discriminatory (unless men and women must both wear pants) and would love to see them challenged. :Angry3: However...

This is an incredibly bad idea.

You are talking about your livelihood (and that of your family etc. if you have one.) The economy is a nightmare with no end in sight and you would be risking your job with no certainty you could find another. Not to mention the reason for your termination would be hard to explain to a future employer.

As much as I sympathize, and I really do, don't do it!

[Kim_Bitzflick]

This is my :2c:

I am an engineer. My company has a dress policy (& I can't wear them at work). I would guess that you company does as well. If I were you, i would start there.

I like the other advice here as well. Be cautious, know your company rules, talk with HR & have a back up plan (most engineers do).

That being said, I met a really nice lady in Cincinnati who is an engineer. She retired from her company (in male mode) and then a couple years later started working as a contract engineer as a female. So it is possible, but tread carefully at first.

Good luck.

[donninacd]

How about this idea, which is something I'm definitely considering doing. And that is, if your company has some sort of informal outing after work, go dressed? My company occasionally has outings to karaoke bars, and I definitely plan on going dressed and belting out a few song. Who knows, it might pave the way toward being able to dress, or wear nail polish or what-not, during regular business hours, or at least on "casual" Friday.

Bear in mind I'm a short-term contractor, so your mileage may vary.

[BRANDYJ]

Personally, I think this is going to far. As a CD, it would be like me flaunting my crossdressing in the face of my co-workers and they surely would not approve or accept it as a group. If you are about to transition, that is a different story. But for CD that has no interest in transitioning, I think it is way to "out there" and could very well be the end of your job. I would not risk it. Especially in today's job market and hard economic times.

[Kate Simmons]

Part of taking ownership of one's self includes taking responsibility for one's own actions. This includes any fallout that would result from those actions.:)

[Girl]

I think it may depend on which country you're in. I think in many European countries (such as my own one, Sweden) it would be illegal to fire someone for wearing female clothes. I'm not saying there wouldn't be other difficulties but I don't think losing your job would be one of them.

[Alberta_Pat]

As suggested earlier, an unofficial gahering may be the place to broach the subject.

But, what to wear. Perhaps you might look into getting a Utilikilt. Wearing it would give you the skirt in public. Adding a nice dress shirt, knee socks and dress shoes would complete the ensemble.

While this would not be the full CD, it would give you a chance to gauge the reactions of your co-workers.

Best wishes in this venture, and please let us know what happens if you decide to go ahead.

[Tina B.]

Ginger, in the state of California, you can be let go for just about any reason they choose. It's called "Right to Work", but it's also so, a right to fire. with out a union contract, you work by mutual consent. Most large companies in Silicon Valley have polices for those in transition, but not many are going to allow an on again off again approach to gender swapping. From what you say you have to wear to work, it sounds like your company has a dress code, they can use that against you. I would think long and hard about that idea. Oh, and Ginger, that pink fog, part of that is coming up with ideas like this one, and thinking it is something that might be OK.
Tina B.

Don't get lost in the FOG, even if it is pink!

[audrey-lynn]

You know this has always been one sided as our dressing goes. Women can wear out clothes but not the other way around. The other night on national news Diane Sawyer was wearing a mans shirt. Thats right the buttons were on the right side not the left. If she can wear mens shirts on national T V why can't we wear a blouse or skirt out in public without fear of being labeled.

[PretzelGirl]

I want to jump in on dressing for the informal outing. I don't feel this is a good idea either. Think about how your job goes. Your success probably hinges on the ability to work with others. So what if the dressing at the informal outing backfires? You could have key people that avoid you. Will that make your job any easier?

I know we need to push for acceptance, but just shocking people with an appearance is not the correct path in my opinion. I would decide if you want to transition and handle it through HR before making it happen or keep your dressing outside of the workplace.

[ellenwannabe]

well I worked every day in total female clothes but as I was a nurse it was OK and seldom that I ever heard anyone say that I wore white pantyhose under my white female jeans and I loved dressing that way every day - you, on the other hand might find ytourself unemployed if you wore the skirt - we should just all have a day when we all went to work in femme mode and to hell with what anyone said or thought - think about it let the world know that we just want to be what we are - Ellen

[BRANDYJ]

Don't get lost in the FOG, even if it is pink!

Amen to that!


You know this has always been one sided as our dressing goes. Women can wear out clothes but not the other way around. The other night on national news Diane Sawyer was wearing a mans shirt. Thats right the buttons were on the right side not the left. If she can wear mens shirts on national T V why can't we wear a blouse or skirt out in public without fear of being labeled.

Sure, don't we wish! But the bare facts are that is is just not done. Again, the pink fog may cloud the facts from reality and accept the way it is. right or wrong as it may seem
Just like men can go topless at the beach, for women, it just ain't done.
We will not change the way it is over night.

[LisaTaylor]

Some thoughts.

We all (unless you happen to be living full-time) have Pink Fog moments. I usually ask myself "What's the worst possible case for this scenario" before going ahead and doing it. This line of thinking has saved my butt on several occasions. Of course, it's also probably cheated me out of a number of potentially rewarding times over the years. It's one of the reasons why my family, closest friends, and work do not know.

I'm guessing most employers can't discriminate against you if they hired you for the job, knowing you were TG'd. But I'll bet they can fire you in a millisecond if you turn out to be anything but what they thought you were. In my state, we have what's called "At Will Employment". This basically means your employer can fire you without warning for any reason whatsoever (except race), to include someone not liking the color of your socks on any given day. All this means for the employee, of course, is that you're not an indentured servant.

My advice - don't do it unless you're ready to look for another job (or have one lined up already) that doesn't care about your status. And definitely don't do it unless you're ready to be publicly "out".

[Gingerbread]

Thank you all for your replies, I did find a copy of my companies dress code and although they don't specifically cover anything TG related, I think I'm going to hold off on this idea for now!

[Joanie_Shakti]

I recently read my company's dress code. The way I interpreted it, it was not gended specific and I could wear women's clothes if I desired. Sleeveless is ok, but no exposed shoulders or spaghetti straps. They give guildelines for types of clothes but don't say that males must wear this or femals must wear that. Shirts must cover backside, ie no showing tramp stamps or plumber's butts. Shoes appropriate for the job. No torn pants (I have violated that one), skirts at a modest legnth.

That said, I work around a lot of macho and ex-military people. Even though technically I wouldn't violate the dress code by staying within the guidelines, it would not be a good idea. I don't even think I would make it past the gate if I was in women's clothes. (Though years ago, a married couple came to work dressed as each other for Halloween.) And a skirt or heels would not be appropriate for the amount of activity my job requires.

[Karen564]

Sounds like a really bad case of pinkfogitis.....:daydreaming:

To even think about showing up at work unannounced in a skirt /fem, etc., without 1st informing your manager/HP dept. will surely make the sparks the fly, and you may quickly find yourself in the unemployment line.:eek:

There's a right & wrong way to go about this, and this a clear example of the wrong way..:thumbsdn:

[Kari Lynn Franks]

I think it may depend on which country you're in. I think in many European countries (such as my own one, Sweden) it would be illegal to fire someone for wearing female clothes. I'm not saying there wouldn't be other difficulties but I don't think losing your job would be one of them.

I wanna goto sweden here in TEXAS its a fire at will state

[~Michelle~]

Sounds like a really bad case of pinkfogitis.....:daydreaming:

To even think about showing up at work unannounced in a skirt /fem, etc., without 1st informing your manager/HP dept. will surely make the sparks the fly, and you may quickly find yourself in the unemployment line.:eek:

There's a right & wrong way to go about this, and this a clear example of the wrong way..:thumbsdn:

You're sooo 100% right Karen! :thumbsup:


I don't see why she couldn't wear a skirt. I have seen male employees of apple computer doing this. What is the big deal? It is no different than women dressing in a masculine manner as we see daily.

Jamie001, and this is meant as a friendly advice because I care about the well-being of all the ladies on this forum; leave the pink fog. ;)

[Von]

I know that the company I work for, actually has it in the dress policy about trans gendered people.

Kymmie

So, does the policy protect or prohibit?


You know this has always been one sided as our dressing goes. Women can wear out clothes but not the other way around. The other night on national news Diane Sawyer was wearing a mans shirt. Thats right the buttons were on the right side not the left. If she can wear mens shirts on national T V why can't we wear a blouse or skirt out in public without fear of being labeled.

Difficult to see this as anything but an enormous double-standard. Hardly a historical first, still unfortunate for those of us with such an inclination.

I know there was a TG male at my company before I started working there, who apparently dressed at work. I don't know how well tolerated it was by management or why that person is no longer there... I haven't been with my company for very long, so I'm hesitant to ask my coworkers about it.

[Fiona Lindum]

About 4 years ago during a spell of very hot weather and we were all complaining about the heat in the office. I was talking to my boss and she said you would feel a lot cooler if you wore a skirt, why don't you wear one to work. I wore skirts to work for the next few days until the weather got cooler.

[RozalynLove]

I think the people here who attempt to oppress other people's expression of themselves are absolutely disgusting.

I am confused as to why so many of you dismiss the feelings you have as 'pink fog', you are attempting to justify why it is inappropriate for you to do the things you want to do, and if what you want to do does not harm anyone, it is not inappropriate. To be honest, the only real reason I can see for doing this is because you do not have the self confidence to live how you want and feel the need to find reasons as to why being yourself is a bad idea.

I do not see anything wrong with this, but to tell others that they should feel the same is not right. I do agree that it makes sense to first consult the dress code of your employers, and perhaps even take some external legal advice as to the law where you live, but will you honesty be able to die happy in the knowledge that you got to experience all of the things that you wanted for yourself if you just accept being told you're not allowed to be yourself?

As for any friends, family or co-workers who change their opinion about you after learning you like to cross dress, they are simply not worth worrying about. If someone is narrow mined, ignorant and judgmental enough to feel like they don't want you and all of your positive personality traits in their life because you happen to like dressing up in clothing that is traditionally worn by females than I would say you're lucky to have found out what they're really like, and should be happy that you now have less intolerant people in your life!

It seems more logical to be comfortable enough with yourself to share this side of you with everyone, and only make an effort to get to know people who are tolerant of you an how you are as a person. It is people denying this part of themselves that lands them in relationships with intolerant people who cannot accept it, and as well as potentially creating a miserable lie of a life for themselves, they are potentially creating a miserable lie of a life for someone else, and that is unacceptable.

[Vickie_CDTV]

I don't believe anyone is trying to oppress anyone. I certainly am not, as I would wear a skirt everyday en femme or otherwise if I could too.

Most of us are just concerned she may do something that would put her livelihood at risk. Things are tough out there and we wouldn't want to see someone else do something impulsive and lose their job.

In a perfect world we could all be our true selves without fear. Since this is a far from perfect world, sometimes some of us have to make compromises in order to survive while we are on it.

[RozalynLove]

I do get where you're coming from, and I agree that most other people who replied were only concerned for Sue's livelihood, as you put it. I think it's great how supportive the people here are. I still think that the only thing that is going to make male cross dressing more socially accepted is males cross dressing in public and promoting that it cannot be taken to say anymore about their sexuality or gender identity than a women wearing baggy jeans, t-shirt and pair of boots. Obviously in some cases it does have to do with sexuality or gender identity, but that part of it isn't really anyone's business until you chose to make it known to them, and shouldn't really be assumed because of clothing choices. I can also understand that because of financial obligations and wives that don't support the idea, certain people do have to make sacrifices, obviously you can't help you fall in love with, but I'd urge anyone who wants to dress to work and is currently with a company that do not allow it to keep their job there only as long as it takes to find the same position and wage within a company that does! :)

[Jamie14]

I think almost all of us dream of going to work en femme but realize the logistics,etc of pulling it off and the consequences afterwards just dont make it possible. I am so jealous of girls that have workplaces where they can pull this off. No fair!! :)

[Vieja]

Hi Ginger. If your company has a dress code that requires certain standards when in guy mode I seriously doubt if they would take kindly to you showing up in a skirt. If you don't care about chronic employment then have a blast.


Vieja

[Freddy12]

I'm glad that you have decided to wait before testing the idea. As has been explained here, it is full of risks, and you need to be absolutely sure that you are willing to take those risks.

Yes, it is possible that you will find yourself without a job. Some of your "friends" may shun you. You may find that those you work with will tell everybody you know. Be careful.

If you are reluctant to ask HR outright (and the HR folks are NOT your friends), you could ask about wearing a kilt. It is male clothing, but cooler than pants. The reaction will tell you lots.

Good luck, and proceed cautiously!

[Jenna Lynne]

If she can wear mens shirts on national T V why can't we wear a blouse or skirt out in public without fear of being labeled.
(Waves hand wildly in the air and bounces up and down in her seat) I know, I know!

The reason is because when women wear male attire they're moving up in the power hierarchy. When men (or I should say, people who normally present as men, let's put it that way) wear female attire, they're moving down in the power hierarchy.

When a male voluntarily moves down in the power hierarchy, he is seen by other males as weak, and therefore as a suitable target for attacks (verbal or otherwise). This is not even a strictly human thing -- most mammals operate that way. It's why male moose beat their heads against one another during mating season. The toughest moose gets to pass on his genes to the next generation. It's pure instinct.

We humanoids can work with our instincts far more flexibly than other animals can, but the instincts are still there, underneath.

*** Jenna ***

(Blogging about gender at jennawillow.wordpress.com)

[Kendra Amaya]

I've had issues at the place where I work regarding this very topic. In our dress code is specifically says that anyone can wear clothes for either sex or gender as long as it follows the dress code regulations. So after a couple times of wearing a skirt to work the HR supervisor relayed a message through my supervisors that that particular part of the dress code doesn't apply to the state I work in and I could only wear a skirt to work if I was transitioning. If i felt like putting up a fuss about it I could fight it, but being in at at-will state they could easily come up with any number of other excuses to get rid of me.




I am an engineer (electrical) I have always wondered what would happen if I were to show up at work on day in my girl mode? Has anyone ever done this? Also what were the consequences? Would I get fired? What if I wanted to go as in girl clothes sometimes and in drab at other times? Sometimes its hot and the women at work can wear skirts and sleeveless tops, but I am limited to wearing hot dress pants or jeans and a dress shirt. Could I get away with wearing a skirt? I would even wear my breasts and a wig if it helped them cope. I also feel more empowered and outgoing when I wear makeup, can I and has anyone ever wore makup t work en femme or otherwise?

I know this is a lot of questions and I am new, but thanks for all you answer's in advance!

hugs...
Dahlia

[donninacd]

If you are reluctant to ask HR outright (and the HR folks are NOT your friends), you could ask about wearing a kilt. It is male clothing, but cooler than pants. The reaction will tell you lots.

Great idea!

[Sarah Michelle]

The whole idea of being able to live and work in an environment where your clothes are not the measure of what you are is a utopian dream that I share. I would love to be able to dress according to my mood, [and without resurrecting the whole rules debate] while remaining within a business appropriate style.
Somewhere and some time, some brave soul must begin by breaking the current rules and resetting the boundaries. I know it isn't going to be me but I applaud those brave enough to trail-blaze. I just know that I'll still be wearing my skirts and dresses in hiding for the rest of my life.... Rural Canada isn't particularly enlightened....