Companies with policies allowing crossdressing on the job?

[dack]

I remember reading something a while back about a company that had a policy allowing people to present themselves as either gender on the job, without even becoming transgendered. I think it was a major financial company, but I can't seem to find it searching on google again.

Does anyone know which company or companies have this policy?

[AlexisWest]

I used to work for a big, world-wide construction company that had a policy similar to that, But, you had to pick one gender and stick with it, no changing back and forth. You also had to be able to meet all the safety regulations, no dresses, sandals and the like on the job site.

[Angiemead12]

never heard about this policy!

I know we dont have it!

[chelle]

Maybe some school would have this policy for teachers. Women teachers can already wear almost anything male and no one says anything

[eluuzion]

My company has always been TG friendly and I love working there. Of course since I am self-employed, I am the only one working here, and we do not have any positions available at this time. :D

I have noticed that many of us fail to consider HR (human resource) areas when looking for legal/employment information. CD or otherwise...HR departments by nature, are always on top of the human and legal aspects of everything. They always have the most current information too.
Here is a link to what I feel is the best "all around" resource
for TG issues...
http://www.hrc.org/index.htm

Just use the menu or site map to navigate.

Hope that helps...

[kymmieLorain]

Wally world has a TG section in there appearance policy. I'll copy it down today and post later.

Kymmie

[Billijo49504]

When I was working at GM, we had a guy that was transitioning. Wish he would have learned to do his makeup better. I tried to make a few suggestions, but his or her answer was what do you know about makeup? He and a lot of people would have been shocked:eek:...BJ

[Gerrijerry]

In NYC
The Con. Edison company allow Gender crossdressing. But it must be full time . If a Male wants to dress as a female it is ok but must be full time so that there is no problems with other emply. Back and forth is not allowed. The company has an LGBT group that meets on company property.

[sandra-leigh]

The {Canadian} organization I work for has no defined dress policy beyond that one must wear appropriate safety equipment if you happen to be one of the people who does work that requires it (I don't do any such work.) I did inquire about a year ago and was told that I could wear my choice of clothes, but they did ask for time to get things ready. I decided not to go ahead at the time for a couple of reasons.

[Stephanie Anne]

Why would you want to crossdress on the job? Such things are usually designed for us who are transitioning male to female or female to male, not for those who only want a part time experience.

Sorry, know that sounded cold but I think such things diminish the strides we are trying to make to have transgender equality and be taken with more respect.

[JenniferR771]

http://history.gmheritagecenter.com/wiki/index.php/The_History_of_GM_PLUS,_GM%E2%80%99s_Lesbian,_Gay, _Bisexual_and_Transgender_Employee_Affinity_Group
General Motors. I met a girl at a Tri-ess meeting in Michigan who was involved with the group and had a hand in writing some of the policy papers for GM Plus.

[sandra-leigh]

Why would you want to crossdress on the job? Such things are usually designed for us who are transitioning male to female or female to male, not for those who only want a part time experience.

Sorry, know that sounded cold but I think such things diminish the strides we are trying to make to have transgender equality and be taken with more respect.

I have to disagree on that. I am transgender but (probably) not transsexual. Being seen as at least partly female is important to me, and it makes me ill to have to hide that part of me at work. Wearing the clothes (including forms) as much as practical is not the same as "transitioning" -- e.g., it wouldn't involve a name change or a legal gender marker change or FFS or SRS.

My being in-between genders with a clear female aspect is something that I am "full time", not just "when it is convenient to me". And my doing that at work would not in any way diminish the experience of transsexuals: if anything, it would pave the way for them, and even the rough spots would be "learning experiences" for the organization.

Are you assuming, Stephanie, that I would wear micro-mini's and towering heels and gaudy makeup? Because that isn't going to happen: I like dress-suits and skirt-suits and I'm not so comfortable with dresses or skirts that are less than half-way down to the knee. I've been wearing women's tops and bottoms to work for four years and never once has anyone even hinted that I've worn something immodest or "distracting".

[Tara Lutschich]

While themed for TG, not CD, here is a good resource that lists companies, schools, medical policies...........

http://www.transgenderlaw.org/

[JulieC]

In NYC
The Con. Edison company allow Gender crossdressing. But it must be full time . If a Male wants to dress as a female it is ok but must be full time so that there is no problems with other emply. Back and forth is not allowed. The company has an LGBT group that meets on company property.

Do they also have a policy that if a female employee starts wearing skirts/dresses to work she must continue to do so and not wear pants to work again?

Being forced to express on gender alone is no better than being forced to express just a male gender. It's just a slightly different form of repression. Many transgender people, myself included, do not identify as female or male but as something inbetween.

[DonnaT]

Do they also have a policy that if a female employee starts wearing skirts/dresses to work she must continue to do so and not wear pants to work again?


Pants are gender neutral, apparently. Skirts aren't, yet.

[Ze]

Pants are gender neutral, apparently. Skirts aren't, yet.

Pants aren't gender neutral. That's why they're sold in two separate sections: men's and women's.

And if pants were gender neutral, then MtFs wouldn't have any problem wearing men's pants.

[Lorileah]

Why would you want to crossdress on the job? Such things are usually designed for us who are transitioning male to female or female to male, not for those who only want a part time experience.

Sorry, know that sounded cold but I think such things diminish the strides we are trying to make to have transgender equality and be taken with more respect.

That was just uncalled for. That is also BS and total crap. You are an arrogant person. Personally that elitist attitude is not helping "YOUR" cause. BTW it isn't just you "TS" people who think that you are the only ones in the world who have problems and issues.:Angry3:

[Ze]

BTW it isn't just you "TS" people who think that you are the only ones in the world who have problems and issues.:Angry3:

Let me help you narrow that down further: only MtF TS people have problems and issues.

[Kathi Lake]

Thanks, Ze and Lorileah! I know that we mere crossdressers couldn't possibly imagine the horrors that true transgender people face.

Sigh.

Kathi

[Lorileah]

Let me help you narrow that down further: only MtF TS people have problems and issues.

You are correct Ze, my apologies. (not thinking clearly on that)

[Kieron Andrew]

Pants are gender neutral, apparently. Skirts aren't, yet.
umm, i think you will find they are not ALL gender neutral, thats why there are womens and mens sections, because the cut is different!...try taking a look at the differences one day...if that was the case you wouldn't need to wear women's pants to cross dress

[Leslie Langford]

http://history.gmheritagecenter.com/wiki/index.php/The_History_of_GM_PLUS,_GM%E2%80%99s_Lesbian,_Gay, _Bisexual_and_Transgender_Employee_Affinity_Group
General Motors. I met a girl at a Tri-ess meeting in Michigan who was involved with the group and had a hand in writing some of the policy papers for GM Plus.

...but the cynic in me is inclined to believe that for GM to be reaching out to the GLBT community is less about the warm and fuzzies, and more about trying to make inroads into a still largely untapped market. And let's face it, most gay couples are DINKS (Double Income, No Kids) with plenty of disposable income to spend. That just makes the sellers of goods and services drool, even if they have to hold their noses in the process when their natural instincts are to disapprove of such lifestyles.

Of course, that applies primarily to gays and lesbians. We crossdressers, being heterosexual for the most part, in committed relationships with opposite-sex partners, and weighed down by families, kids, mortgages, university tuitions, and mounting credit debt etc. just like regular folks while at the same time fearing for our jobs because this nasty recession just won't go away, are already pretty maxxed out when it comes to our financial commitments :eek::doh:.

That makes us a far less appealing target for spending advertising dollars on :heehee:.

[Ze]

And let's face it, most gay couples are DINKS (Double Income, No Kids) with plenty of disposable income to spend.

I could never really understand this stereotype. Sure, in a perfect world this would be the case, and indeed there are couples out there like this, but most LGB people I've known tend to have trouble finding/keeping jobs (just like trans people) if they're out. And sometimes couples can't be covered on each other's insurance, many want to adopt and raise families, etc...

[Priscillia Smith]

Don't know and haven't asked but I think my company (water company) and union wouldn't take to kindly to it. Just the vibe that I get.

[Cassandra Lynn]

Why would you want to crossdress on the job? Such things are usually designed for us who are transitioning male to female or female to male, not for those who only want a part time experience.

Sorry, know that sounded cold but I think such things diminish the strides we are trying to make to have transgender equality and be taken with more respect.

That's alot of we's and us's, can't see how all of those are going to add up to transgender equality. Reading between the lines all i see is YOU.
Didn't sound cold at all, ridiculous, but not cold. mj (Cassie)

[dack]

I hope I'll eventually be able to find that article about that dresscode policy that I had read again; I probably bookmarked it on my last computer that crashed.

If anyone else can think of specific companies with policies like this (and without requiring you to declare yourself transgendered, let me know).


Why would you want to crossdress on the job? Such things are usually designed for us who are transitioning male to female or female to male, not for those who only want a part time experience.

Sorry, know that sounded cold but I think such things diminish the strides we are trying to make to have transgender equality and be taken with more respect.

Yes, I'd have to respectfully disagree with this, too. I really would like to see society as a whole be accepting of people being able to dress with characteristics of either gender without scrutiny. Women can do this already. I do understand your frustration, what with slow progress on transsexual acceptance.

[Stephanie Anne]

That's my opinion and given honestly. It may not be agreed with and most likely I will change my views as I am always open to growing.

I stand by my view however as I feel the general populous does not want to openly accept someone who crosses gender lines so frequently. I still believe crossdressing at work would not be beneficial to someone who solely wants to transition to the other gender and has no intention of returning to their birth gender.

Some or most may find this arrogant or short sighted but I have my opinion only based on my thoughts of a realistic view of the world which is often jaded.

Personally, I would have no negative thoughts if someone wanted to crossdress at work and would wholly support it but come on, let's get real here. Transitioning in the work place is hard enough, having someone who wants to only portray the opposite gender when the mood strikes them would most likely not bode well for anyone else who wants to do nothing more than assimilate into said gender.

On that note, I realize after having to explain myself that this topic is ripe with emotional ties and I should steer clear of such things but... I am never one to avoid sharing my thoughts, regardless of if they are popular or not.

[Loni]

well i work for the teamsters..er...a...i mean a trucking company. it would not be good to be other than a man on this job. sure sounds sexiest, but not very many gals could do this job...or want to. lots of lifting. nothing in any co rules about presenting as transgendered...that i know of. but the co does have a fixed dress code. (so very hard to dress up) wear your co provided uniform. steel toed boots. NO badges, pin, etc. other than for the company or union. part of what i do each day a skirt just would not work. (working on a raised platform)(some very unladylike climbing) :heehee:
at least we do have the stars and stripes on the shirt.:usa:


.

[Ze]

That's my opinion and given honestly. It may not be agreed with and most likely I will change my views as I am always open to growing.

I stand by my view however as I feel the general populous does not want to openly accept someone who crosses gender lines so frequently. I still believe crossdressing at work would not be beneficial to someone who solely wants to transition to the other gender and has no intention of returning to their birth gender.

Some or most may find this arrogant or short sighted but I have my opinion only based on my thoughts of a realistic view of the world which is often jaded.

Personally, I would have no negative thoughts if someone wanted to crossdress at work and would wholly support it but come on, let's get real here. Transitioning in the work place is hard enough, having someone who wants to only portray the opposite gender when the mood strikes them would most likely not bode well for anyone else who wants to do nothing more than assimilate into said gender.

On that note, I realize after having to explain myself that this topic is ripe with emotional ties and I should steer clear of such things but... I am never one to avoid sharing my thoughts, regardless of if they are popular or not.

I can understand where you're coming from, Stephanie, though I still disagree. And since you were kind enough to explain yourself further, I'll do the same.

Your argument has truth to it, I don't deny that. But the problem as I see it is how that truth is being handled. Indeed, TG struggles are hard, and including our CD comrades confuses the ciscommunity even more and makes it harder for them to understand any of us. But sacrificing part of our gender diverse community sells all of us short. To simply argue that there are only two genders--and TG people are simply attempting to present as the "one" gender as opposed to the "other"--only perpetuates the problem we're trying to overcome. There are apparently only two boxes and we apparently can only fit into one, regardless of which we initially started out. We argue this way and think we're helping our cause, but all we're doing is catering to the cisgender stereotype. Further, the argument doesn't even include all TG people; what about our genderqueer siblings and all of the other two-box nonconformists? So what are we currently fighting for? Only for a select portion of our group to gain rights? This doesn't settle with me.

In the end, the struggles of TG acceptance shouldn't be put on the shoulders of our CD brothers and sisters, but rather the uneducated cisgender population.

[pamela_a]

At great personal risk for being a declared a "stuck up full timer" I'd like to ask these questions.

What is the 1 driving reason that makes you want to cross dress at work?

What do you expect to gain from it; what are the positives?

If you did cross dress at work are you really prepared to deal with the resulting consequences? Just because company policy allows or at least doesn't say you can't does not mean there would be no repercussions from it.


Thinking about it, I personally don't care long as it's done tastefully, as Sandra pointed out, and that may indeed help others to understand being TG a little better.

What concerns me is I know too many horror stories of people who are transitioning and bad things happen to them at work and it makes me wonder why anyone would want to take that risk unless they absolutely had to.

[Babeba]

There is someone who works at our university library who is genetically male, and quite often wears skirts and cute shoes (usually a male polo shirt on top). So far as I know, no-one has ever made a big deal about his attire.

One of my classmates noticed this guy's predeliction for skirts about a month ago (we started our program in September), and posted a comment about it on Facebook. It provoked a storm of reactions, from 'Yeah, we noticed ages ago, isn't it a little weird?' to one friend who did her undergrad at this uni explaining how last year she and her friends had charted out his mood in comparison to his clothing choice for the day and found over the month or so they spent in the library doing their dissertations he was a much happier and pleasant person when wearing female clothing.

The vibe I got from the facebook discussion was that as soon as everyone is used to someone's mode of dress, they get over it or at least get used to it?

[Lorileah]

At great personal risk for being a declared a "stuck up full timer" I'd like to ask these questions.

yes you did run that risk. and I still don't get the "my life sucks more than yours does" feeling that the MtF TS's who are going through complete transformation vs those of us who may only go partial or not all convey


What is the 1 driving reason that makes you want to cross dress at work?
Let's use the age old arguments of

1) I like the clothes
2) I like how I look in them
3) I like the feel
4) I should be able to wear whatever I want as long as it doesn't take air from your lungs or food from your mouth or shorten your life expectancy.
5) they are comfortable


What do you expect to gain from it; what are the positives?

I will feel good about myself and be more outgoing and productive. I will feel more relaxed as I am enjoying how I feel about myself and am more relaxed. I will become a more productive team member because I like me more and am more relaxed. Because I should be able to wear what I want to.


If you did cross dress at work are you really prepared to deal with the resulting consequences? Just because company policy allows or at least doesn't say you can't does not mean there would be no repercussions from it.

seems a risk many will take. Just like getting a tattoo? or piercing? or wearing pink?



Thinking about it, I personally don't care long as it's done tastefully, as Sandra pointed out, and that may indeed help others to understand being TG a little better.

Exactly what would be tasteful? A 20 something wearing a midthigh skirt with 3 inch heels in an office where others wear the same? How about a 40 something wearing te same? What if you are a bit overweight but you still like the style? Other than the fringe ideas like a leather cat suit or a skirt that does not cover your "parts" what is tasteful? A floor length calico? Slacks? Side zip or front zip? Pockets or no? Flared?


What concerns me is I know too many horror stories of people who are transitioning and bad things happen to them at work and it makes me wonder why anyone would want to take that risk unless they absolutely had to.

maybe if we were allowed to dress as we feel then there would be less of those horror stories? And if we allow people who are not going to be OP TS's to dress that way the TS's would have less problems and opposition? By telling the rest of the TG spectrum that your problems are worse and that you would actually prefer they say out of sight can't be helping you. What exactly would interfere with a TS life if a part time CD wore a dress to work? How would that effect your ability to work for TG rights (we were excluded by the last ENDA bill and they didn't say except those transitioning...it included those who were not fully transitioned.) Maybe if the TS's, who seem to wish everyone else would just go away, here would be a little more "US" and little less "ME" we could work together and make it better?

[pamela_a]

yes you did run that risk. and I still don't get the "my life sucks more than yours does" feeling that the MtF TS's who are going through complete transformation vs those of us who may only go partial or not all convey

I don't believe I said or even intimated that



Let's use the age old arguments of

1) I like the clothes
2) I like how I look in them
3) I like the feel
4) I should be able to wear whatever I want as long as it doesn't take air from your lungs or food from your mouth or shorten your life expectancy.
5) they are comfortable I know the generic litany of reasons for cross dressing but I'm asking specifically why you want to cross dress to work.




I will feel good about myself and be more outgoing and productive. I will feel more relaxed as I am enjoying how I feel about myself and am more relaxed. I will become a more productive team member because I like me more and am more relaxed. Because I should be able to wear what I want to.Thank you. These are the answers I was looking for




seems a risk many will take. Just like getting a tattoo? or piercing? or wearing pink?If this is a risk many will take why is there even the question? You're right, there is no difference between getting a tattoo or wearing earrings and wearing your favorite dress to work




Exactly what would be tasteful? A 20 something wearing a midthigh skirt with 3 inch heels in an office where others wear the same? How about a 40 something wearing te same? What if you are a bit overweight but you still like the style? Other than the fringe ideas like a leather cat suit or a skirt that does not cover your "parts" what is tasteful? A floor length calico? Slacks? Side zip or front zip? Pockets or no? Flared? Perhaps appropriately would have been a better word that tastefully.



maybe if we were allowed to dress as we feel then there would be less of those horror stories? And if we allow people who are not going to be OP TS's to dress that way the TS's would have less problems and opposition? By telling the rest of the TG spectrum that your problems are worse and that you would actually prefer they say out of sight can't be helping you. What exactly would interfere with a TS life if a part time CD wore a dress to work? How would that effect your ability to work for TG rights (we were excluded by the last ENDA bill and they didn't say except those transitioning...it included those who were not fully transitioned.) Maybe if the TS's, who seem to wish everyone else would just go away, here would be a little more "US" and little less "ME" we could work together and make it better?There seems to be a recurring theme here:

4) I should be able to wear whatever I want as long as it doesn't take air from your lungs or food from your mouth or shorten your life expectancy.
Because I should be able to wear what I want to.
maybe if we were allowed to dress as we feel then there would be less of those horror stories?Who is stopping you? Certainly not me.


By telling the rest of the TG spectrum that your problems are worse and that you would actually prefer they say out of sight can't be helping you.I personally don't recall seeing very many who are transitioning saying their (our) life is worse. I read a lot of the same concerns from everyone. Worry about what family, friends, job, the world will say if they go out. The only real difference I see is that a large percentage of the CDs that complain about issues like those will never even crack the door to their prison they call the closet. Yes, there are some that do and that's great. More power to you. The more there are out there the easier it might be break down the stereotypes.

Come to think of it, everyone should get dressed and get out in the world. If you want to cross dress at work or anywhere else get out there and do it.
The only person stopping you is YOU!

[Stephanie Anne]

Let me expand by saying that I do agree with points made especially by Ze and would not want to ever restrict, limit, discriminate, or otherwise make myself feel more elite or better than anyone. I would be the first to support such a policy should it not compromise what I strongly believe is a delicate issue that is already touchy.


I do however believe in the reality of making social changes at a slow and reasonable pace.

Like it or not, people are going to want to have balance to what they accept as normalcy and will retaliate if said balance is thrown too far and too fast off center.

It is hard enough to self accept let alone expect others to accept someone bending genders based on their feeling at the time. I have zero feelings of superiority to anyone who crossdresses but I do and until such time as I am convinced otherwise, will feel it detrimental to the long and difficult fight we have to push through to get acceptance from the general populace. Add workplace acceptance and I feel it may be far too chaotic in most people's minds to accept that Bob likes to be Linda every second Tuesday.


In summation... maybe one day but I don't feel it is something that can be successfully lobbied for and at the current time have hope for gaining support for anyone who wants a full time acceptance in the gender of their choosing (e.g. the issues about ENDA passing).

[Rianna Humble]

What is the 1 driving reason that makes you want to cross dress at work?

What do you expect to gain from it; what are the positives?

What first made me want to dress at work on the days where it is permitted, was the realisation that I am a calmer person - hence better at my job - when I am dressed.

What made me actually begin was a comment from a co-worker at the Xmas party that she thought I would have been more comfortable wearing a dress. Following more talks with her, I decided that I should discuss this with management.

They told me that I was OK to dress on "dress-down" days (Fri / Sat / Sun) but not on "business smart" days unless I was actually in transition.

At that point, I was not 100% sure, so I accepted their compromise.


If you did cross dress at work are you really prepared to deal with the resulting consequences? Just because company policy allows or at least doesn't say you can't does not mean there would be no repercussions from it.

In my case, I already had an idea from the co-worker that my colleagues would accept me dressing, but management were worried about negative reactions from other teams and asked me to be very discreet at the beginning (e.g. jeans & a top). My team-mates took me to task for accepting that restriction.

In 5 months doing this, i think I may have heard one negative comment, but I have also had loads of positive comments from people who have seen me in both roles.


Thinking about it, I personally don't care long as it's done tastefully, as Sandra pointed out, and that may indeed help others to understand being TG a little better.

Since "tastefully" is a purely subjective word, I cannot say whether I have fulfilled your criteria for you to accept how I live my life.

I can however say that it has opened up opportunities for people to ask me about what it means to be transgender.


What concerns me is I know too many horror stories of people who are transitioning and bad things happen to them at work and it makes me wonder why anyone would want to take that risk unless they absolutely had to.

Bad things can happen anywhere, but you're right - why take the risk of steping outside of your house? You might get run over, or attacked in the street or even bitten by a rabid dog! Alternatively, you can refuse to let your life be governed by fear. I chose the latter course.

[Karen564]

I've always been under the impression that these company policies regarding dressing was more aimed at the ones undergoing transition...Not casual part time dressing as they wish..

People here have to realize how important it is for a transsexual to transition & dress in the workplace without repercussions because we don't have the luxury of choosing between two genders from one day to the next...
We are committed to this full time for the rest of our lives as a means to live as ONE gender, not two..and is a very serious matter for us, because it may mean the difference between life & death..

Seriously....If your Not transitioning, are you going to kill yourself just because you can't CD at work?

We still have so much ground to cover just to get more companies to get a transitioning policy on their books never mind throwing another twist in the works regarding PT CDing in the workplace..as a form of personal expression..

For the companies that do allow casual CDing at work, then my hats off to them..

Just remember that once the Cat is out of the Bag, you can't put it back in no matter how hard you try....
So if you suspect your even in the slightest bit of pink mist, you better think it through very carefully before you act on it..

[pamela_a]

Since no one has raised this question yet, I will:

With all of the innumerable posts on this forum stating you should always use the restroom of the gender you are presenting are you going to stick by this statement?

Those of us who are transitioning have major issues with being able to use the correct restroom, do you intend to use the ladies room also or are you going to continue to use the men's? How is that going to work out with your co-workers?

Rianna, that's very a enlightened employer you have. May I ask have you progressed past just jeans and a top (relatively "neutral" in gender presentation, depending on the top of course) to more obviously female attire, i.e. skirts and/or dresses?
I commend you and hope everything continues well for you.

[Rianna Humble]

Those of us who are transitioning have major issues with being able to use the correct restroom, do you intend to use the ladies room also or are you going to continue to use the men's? How is that going to work out with your co-workers?

Rianna, that's very a enlightened employer you have. May I ask have you progressed past just jeans and a top (relatively "neutral" in gender presentation, depending on the top of course) to more obviously female attire, i.e. skirts and/or dresses?
I commend you and hope everything continues well for you.

At the moment, and until the end of this week, I am wearing a skirt & top or a dress on Fri / Sat / Sun and the rest of the week I change into drab-alike shoes, men's trousers and a blouse or shirt once I have arrived at the office.

From Thursday 1st July, I will be going full-time (although I amrota'd off that day). My manager is going to witness the deed of change of name this week which will make it all official.

Unfortunately, they have asked me to use the only gender-neutral toilet in the whole building for the first month of my transition. I have pointed out that this can be slightly humiliating as it is 4 floors down from where I work, so they have agreed to review the toilet question after 1 month.

They are also going to find out at what point in my transition it would become unlawful for them to refuse me the use of the ladies'. Hopefully, it won't drag out that long.

One of the things I like about my employer's equalities statement is that it outlaws discrimination on the grounds of gender reassignment.

[pamela_a]

Despite the fuss I've made about it, I need to come clean here.

I'd honestly never until right now considered what I did as cross dressing (yes, I'm blond) but for several years before I transitioned none of the clothing I wore was male. I never thought of it as cross dressing since it was all I wore, I didn't switch between a male and a female. My entire wardrobe was from the women's department. Pants, jeans, tops, foundation garments (and yes, I needed and wore a bra too) were all women's. Ok, my shoes were men's.

I never overdid anything, I didn't wear make up, other than foundation sometimes, no jewelry. I didn't make a production of it and kept it to pants and jeans, very androgynous. No skirts, dresses, or even overtly feminine tops and it wasn't an issue.

I never considered bringing anything to my employer's attention. It didn't affect my co-workers or my ability to do my job. The only differences in my pants were not obvious and I usually wore polo tops, some of them were definitely more feminine styled but nothing overt.

I found that when I did transition at work there were a number of people, with whom I regularly worked, had no idea whereas others asked me what took so long.

What is your goal, what do you want to wear? If it's pants and a top go for it. If you are thinking about wearing a skirt or dress that may become more of an issue.

YMMV but it can be done.


At the moment, and until the end of this week, I am wearing a skirt & top or a dress on Fri / Sat / Sun and the rest of the week I change into drab-alike shoes, men's trousers and a blouse or shirt once I have arrived at the office.

From Thursday 1st July, I will be going full-time (although I amrota'd off that day). My manager is going to witness the deed of change of name this week which will make it all official.

Unfortunately, they have asked me to use the only gender-neutral toilet in the whole building for the first month of my transition. I have pointed out that this can be slightly humiliating as it is 4 floors down from where I work, so they have agreed to review the toilet question after 1 month.

They are also going to find out at what point in my transition it would become unlawful for them to refuse me the use of the ladies'. Hopefully, it won't drag out that long.

One of the things I like about my employer's equalities statement is that it outlaws discrimination on the grounds of gender reassignment.

Congratulations Rianna, I'm so very happy for you. I remember the day I transitioned at work and what a wonderful day that was.
Regarding them asking you to use a gender-neutral toilet for a while is understandable. I was asked the same thing to give the other women in the building the opportunity to acclimate to my transition. After a month or so I just started using the ladies room and it hasn't been an issue since.

[Toni_Lynn]

25 years ago I was unfortunate enough to work for Radio Shack, in what was one of their 'computer centres' as opposed to a regular full line store. (editorial comment) Realising that they were losing the real world race against IBM and Compaq and Dell, they decided that the problem was that we didn't look professional enough, and therefore adopted a mix of IBM's dress code and the book 'Dress for Success' thinking that this would overshadow the rubbish that they sold. (end editorial comment). This dictate included everything but underwear. For example, it was colour specific as far as ties, shirts, socks etc. And of course, hair length was in the mix. Mine was no where near as long as it is today. It was at my collar. I was called to the District Manager's office, a man appropriately named Dick, and was told that I must get my hair cut. When I explained my situation, and produced a letter from the gender therapist I was seeing I was told, "until you get it cut off, you will only wear men's clothes and have an appropriate male hair style and length."

Several many litres of cheap rum later, and after many years, I am making 9 times what I made there, work for a company that could gobble up Radio Shack as an appetiser and has gender diversity policies, and while I don't do femme at work (I'm mostly neutral), I have shoulder length hair with blonde highlights. As to where the aforementioned Dick is, he's probably selling used Plymouths in Peoria, and I still have mine :tongueout

Huggles

Toni-Lynn

[sandra-leigh]

Toilets... when I discussed the issue with my HR person about a year ago, he immediately pointed to a particular toilet and said that we could make it gender-neutral. It has lockers and an area to change, but it is not used much. As far as I am concerned at the moment, that would be fine as long as I am gender-ambiguous; if I should ever come to the point of transitioning then of course it would have to be revisited.

My employer is fairly large and has a number of departments that are pretty much independently run but the non-discrimination policies are organization-wide. Other departments of my employer have had people transition, and our medical coverage paid for it, so it is accepted at least in theory (the organization is far too big for me to have met those people so I don't know how others reacted to them.)

[jenifer m.]

i work for GNC and i crossdress every day.in fact the manager knew about jenifer long befor she hired me.my nails are half inch long with french paint job,i wear womens slacks,knee highs,black womans clogs.i wear eyebrow pencill,and mascara with lip gloss every day to work.the only artical of mens clothing i wear is a mans white shirt with a tie.the rest is female clothing.and when i find a womans blouse that will accept a tie i will wear that too.

[Joanie_Shakti]

i work for GNC and i crossdress every day.


Wow! Most of the employees in my local ones are muscle bound Marines. I feel a bit intimidated just going in there with my shave legs and painted toenails.

[dack]

Thanks for the suggestions on places that do allow crossdressing.

jenifer m - Do you think you could get away with wearing a skirt at GNC?


At great personal risk for being a declared a "stuck up full timer" I'd like to ask these questions.

What is the 1 driving reason that makes you want to cross dress at work?

What do you expect to gain from it; what are the positives?

If you did cross dress at work are you really prepared to deal with the resulting consequences? Just because company policy allows or at least doesn't say you can't does not mean there would be no repercussions from it.

I was honestly just looking at all the available options. I had remembered reading an article about a financial firm that let people dress as they like, so long as they used restrooms consistent with their presented gender and didn't cause problems. I was really interested in finding the name of that company again, as well as any other companies that allow this. I'd probably think it over a while before actually pursuing something such as this.

As for what I would gain by doing it, I mainly would feel like I didn't have to avoid something just because others didn't want me doing it. I could just be myself. It's a little bit akin to asking why the forefathers would be willing to fight to the death over tea taxes, though on a different level.

[Rianna Humble]

As for what I would gain by doing it, I mainly would feel like I didn't have to avoid something just because others didn't want me doing it. I could just be myself. It's a little bit akin to asking why the forefathers would be willing to fight to the death over tea taxes, though on a different level.

Another analogy might be to ask what the pilgrims thought they would gain by enduring the voyage on the Mayflower to begin again in largely uncharted territory.

[nikkijo]

I remember reading something a while back about a company that had a policy allowing people to present themselves as either gender on the job, without even becoming transgendered. I think it was a major financial company, but I can't seem to find it searching on google again.

Does anyone know which company or companies have this policy?

not a major financial co.. but i know of a business in my area that has this policy... mine:)

[christinek]

I disagree with some of the above comments! Cut Really?? You are going to go with that!

OK if you want a truly gender neutral workplace try the federal government.

I have worked for Uncle Sam since 1992, first as a Soldier and now as a federal employee.

The Government has policies that protect us and make it illegal to treat us different.

[O2B Barbara]

While I almost always dress enfemme all days I rarely wear lace and bras or slacks that are ovely obivious. I know that there a rew that have noticed but said noting. As for the employer My understanding is that if I dress for the job and safety they can not do much about it.

[carrie-ann]

Ok my 2 cents I'm a full time TG/CD. I love it! I got this job with that on my app. It's been a little over a year now. My life is better for it. I have had a few issues nothing bad though. I decided against the TS surgery. I still want breasts Implants so TV is my final goal. I can see all sides of the issue. I think what ever you wear your responsible for. So if you can handle the pressure go for it. At the same time don't complain when you get called out on it.

[flatlander_48]

http://history.gmheritagecenter.com/wiki/index.php/The_History_of_GM_PLUS,_GM%E2%80%99s_Lesbian,_Gay, _Bisexual_and_Transgender_Employee_Affinity_Group
General Motors. I met a girl at a Tri-ess meeting in Michigan who was involved with the group and had a hand in writing some of the policy papers for GM Plus.

They were one of 2 or 3 employee resource groups that won an award at Out & Equal last October.

[flatlander_48]

I believe our policy has a clause that you should be somewhere on the path of transitioning. You would probably have to present psychological evaluation documents. I don't think going back and forth would be allowed either, unless you decided to abandon the process.

We have a person in our LGBT employee resource group who is transitioning M->F. So far, so good...

[carolyn todd]

i think one answer could be a teacher ?
http://www.sundaysun.co.uk/news/north-east-news/2010/06/27/transgender-teacher-s-an-inspiration-79310-26732045/
or some one who works for her/his self ?.

carolyn xx

[sandra-leigh]

I've always been under the impression that these company policies regarding dressing was more aimed at the ones undergoing transition...Not casual part time dressing as they wish.

The organization I work for lost a bunch of lawsuits in the past for trying to impose behaviour that could not be demonstrated to be necessary for the job. As a result, current clothing policies are pretty much that: if your job doesn't require a particular clothing, then you are free to wear what you want, provided you are within the bounds of the public indecency laws. I do not know, though, what the effect would be if someone were to come to work as an Adult Baby or in BSDM fetish clothes. For the sort of clothes that are routinely worn by a portion of the employees, the organization would have no official mechanism to refuse. But, of course, that doesn't mean that there would be no long term consequences.




People here have to realize how important it is for a transsexual to transition & dress in the workplace without repercussions because we don't have the luxury of choosing between two genders from one day to the next...

I have about as much choice in my gender as you have (not much): my gender, is, however, not as polarized into male and female.

It isn't like some days feeling like I want to sing Rap and other days feeling like I want to sing Gospel. Telling me that I have to hide my true (mixed) gender at work would be like telling me that I'm not allowed to be a mathematician: I can't not be a mathematician though few people know that I am one.



We are committed to this full time for the rest of our lives as a means to live as ONE gender, not two..and is a very serious matter for us, because it may mean the difference between life & death..

Seriously....If your Not transitioning, are you going to kill yourself just because you can't CD at work?

Suicide isn't on my bucket list, but I very much suspect that if I had to put myself completely back in to the "male" bottle again that I would have another functional breakdown in time, possibly to the point of having to retire due to medical disability. My life is no bundle of joy -- especially when transsexuals presume to tell me that if I'm not desparate for SRS that my feelings are mere luxuries. :facepalm:

[Karen564]

I have about as much choice in my gender as you have (not much): my gender, is, however, not as polarized into male and female.

It isn't like some days feeling like I want to sing Rap and other days feeling like I want to sing Gospel. Telling me that I have to hide my true (mixed) gender at work would be like telling me that I'm not allowed to be a mathematician: I can't not be a mathematician though few people know that I am one.


Suicide isn't on my bucket list, but I very much suspect that if I had to put myself completely back in to the "male" bottle again that I would have another functional breakdown in time, possibly to the point of having to retire due to medical disability. My life is no bundle of joy -- especially when transsexuals presume to tell me that if I'm not desparate for SRS that my feelings are mere luxuries. :facepalm:


You obviously have absolutely no idea what trans-sexuality really is to say what you just did...and your comparison is pretty whacked out really..

Do Not speak to me what my choices were, because you have no clue.. I know what I am...and not confused...

But it would seem that you are very confused..or clueless..


Besides, I didn't tell you anything....You made your own asumptions...and choices in your life.. nobody else told you what or what not to do but YOU..

So to sum it up....if what I said bothers you so much, why not take a stand at your workplace & dress as female since that's what you really want ?

Too scared??? Or will the wife ground you? :D

[charlotte_sp]

You obviously have absolutely no idea what trans-sexuality really is to say what you just did...and your comparison is pretty whacked out really..

What it means to be trans is different for everyone.
Your (or anyone else's) personal experience is not the gold standard for being trans.
I think you are way out of line.

[Karen564]

What it means to be trans is different for everyone.
Your (or anyone else's) personal experience is not the gold standard for being trans.
I think you are way out of line.

I'm WAY outta line?

I don't recall stating what my standard was...

But go on, make up your own meaning then..and good luck with that....

I'm dropping this now, before this gets out of control..

Over & out..:drink:

[Jonianne]

......Some or most may find this arrogant or short sighted but I have my opinion only based on my thoughts of a realistic view of the world which is often jaded.......

.......I am never one to avoid sharing my thoughts, regardless of if they are popular or not.

Stephanie, here is some feedback; I do find your posts on this particular thread very arrogant and that ticks me off.

Just because I do not identify "as" a female, does not diminish the importance or the necessaryness of my need to identify "with" females. How much crossdressing or the tastefullness of it can be hashed out within each company, but the fear of being harrassed or fired is very much a reality to us cd'ers. And we do not get the protection of the proposed ENDA bill as TS women and men do.

I feel angry that you are isolating us cd'ers in the same manner the LGB community kept the TS community at arms length.

[sandra-leigh]

You obviously have absolutely no idea what trans-sexuality really is to say what you just did...and your comparison is pretty whacked out really..

Did you ever have a "passion" in your life, some skill or talent that you had to use even at great cost to your physical health and your relationships, something that doesn't turn off at night, not even in your sleep, something that shapes the entire course of your life? Mathematics is like that for me. Is it so "wacked out" to compare that to transexuality?


Do Not speak to me what my choices were, because you have no clue.. I know what I am...and not confused...

You presumed to speak about my choices when you spoke about non-TS's having a choice of gender -- which may be the case for some of them, but is definitely not the case for all of them.


So to sum it up....if what I said bothers you so much, why not take a stand at your workplace & dress as female since that's what you really want ?

Too scared??? Or will the wife ground you? :D

You must have been speed-reading: I've been dressing as female at work for the last four years, and the roof hasn't fallen in, and my wife (who knows about me) thinks I have good taste in clothes.

[Karen564]

Did you ever have a "passion" in your life, some skill or talent that you had to use even at great cost to your physical health and your relationships, something that doesn't turn off at night, not even in your sleep, something that shapes the entire course of your life? Mathematics is like that for me. Is it so "wacked out" to compare that to transexuality?

Yes, I had a passion for WORK..and building a career!

I never had any passion to be a transsexual....my only passion was to fight it..
If you want to discuss transsexuality, lets talk about that.....not some passion for mathematics..


You presumed to speak about my choices when you spoke about non-TS's having a choice of gender -- which may be the case for some of them, but is definitely not the case for all of them.

This is what I wrote...which I was not speaking to You directly.....but if the shoe fits..so be it..



People here have to realize how important it is for a transsexual to transition & dress in the workplace without repercussions because we don't have the luxury of choosing between two genders from one day to the next...
We are committed to this full time for the rest of our lives as a means to live as ONE gender, not two..and is a very serious matter for us, because it may mean the difference between life & death..

Seriously....If your Not transitioning, are you going to kill yourself just because you can't CD at work?



If you or whoever can not fully understand what I said, (which you clearly did not) then you never will........
so it's really pointless to discuss it further..



You must have been speed-reading: I've been dressing as female at work for the last four years, and the roof hasn't fallen in, and my wife (who knows about me) thinks I have good taste in clothes.

That's strange......dressing 4 years as a woman you say?, because your stated otherwise earlier this year in your thread here as an Experiment.... http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1992727&postcount=1


Would I do such an experiment again? Yes, I'm sure I would. Indeed, in a way it would have been easier on me if I had felt uncomfortable or easily distracted or had otherwise felt like obvious clothes and work do not mix: instead, I now have the difficulty that I feel that I would dress at work if I felt that the local leader would be accepting (currently I feel that our local leader would resent the ripple of disruption my coming out would cause more than they would care about what I actually wore -- even if it were just a "one day wonder", that would be a day of lowered productivity in difficult times.)

Dressing at work while the plant is shut down 3 days & nobody there seeing you while your hiding in your office is not what I would exactly call making a stand for the right to CD with management or what I call openly Out with your boss or coworkers..

Your misleading people here to think otherwise....which can be dangerous to the unknowing..:Angry3:

I don't mind helping anyone here transition, and have done so for many, but my 1st rule before I do anything is make sure they have a good grasp on reality & on the same page..

I really do hate to even discuss anything here anymore, because it always gets so off track..& pointless..
:thumbsdn:

[az_azeel]

This thread has gone way of topic and is now done...