Attractiveness and gender confidence

[Ze]

With the unrealistic expectations of beauty for females, I notice some of our TG sisters struggle with acceptance of themselves if they don't consider themselves as attractive as the women they see in the media. Or if they don't consider themselves "femininely" attractive at all. (If it helps any, ladies, many GGs can struggle with the same problem to a certain extent.)

But do any of us guys deal with this on the masculine side? There's been an upsurge for years now of pretty boys and macho men, though admittedly it's nowhere near as bad as what women have had to deal with. But is it having an effect on any of us?

I'll admit I secretly wish I was one of the attractive guys, but that's for reasons of sexuality as opposed to gender identity. In my simple mind, increased attractiveness = increased attention from ladies. And it'd also just help my self-esteem.

But to not be attractive doesn't equal lacking masculinity to me. I'm still a man. I just don't look like Orlando Bloom.

Just like there's a "feminine" standard of beauty (i.e. "You're not really female unless you look like this"), is there a threat of a "masculine" standard emerging? Of course, men have a history of behaviors that were considered necessary of being masculine (which would result in broad shoulders and chests, etc), but what about appearances for the sake of appearances?

[4serrus]

Yes. The few times I actually do look male, I look like a 12 year old... which does not help. There's the musculature issue, and the fact that it's really hard to show off your abs when you haven't had chest surgery yet. Lots of us with wide hips and the like won't ever be able to get that slim muscled bodybuilder look. Guys are supposed to be skinny... And then there's the height thing...

[7sisters]

I dont think there will be a uniform global standard of masculinity. Ever.

In India, a very heterogenous country, you will find vastly different standards. A rural villager would think the presence of facial and body hair is what defines his "maleness". At the same time in urban india, men undergo laser hair reduction on their torsos as part of their grooming ritual. They pluck their eyebrows and use creams to make their skin fair (insidiously of course).

Urban indian men are influenced by western colour associations. So they shy away from pink as it is associated with women. But hot pink, red and orange are worn by men in rural India.

Men in certain Indian communities, wear Henna on their hands when they marry. In other communities it is considered only the adornment of women. Both Indian men and women wear jewellery.

From what I have observed, globally what defines a 'man' is not so much appearance as much as: the amount of kids he can spawn; the amount of women he can sleep with. It's natures canny play with men's mind's to ensure humans as an 'organism' do not go the way of dodos and quaggas.

Of course you men should not use this as an excuse to philander!

The media is full of heavenly women who remind us femininity is not the exclusive birthright of ggs. Miriam Rivera is far better looking than any Miss Universe, Calpurnia Addams is a true American beauty with all the charm of a Southern belle, Isis King - if only everyone looked so perfect! My point is that any ladies who are transitioning - it's not easy, but chin up sister! you can do it!

Bodies are just structures to house the the soul. It's so tragic to be slaves to an image.

As for you Ze, you lovable rascal - how much more attention do you want! Half the ladies in this forum flirt with you. Hmmm you are quite the typical male! All you men need constant pampering!

[mistunderstood]

I find being male kinda gives me a little freedom to be heavy. My girlfriend always tell me when we talk about weight loss its ok for a male to be heavy but not a woman. I think she is right men can have beer guts but not women.
For me I have know idea what I want to look like as long as it is not female.

[Thornton]

I don't think there is a masculine standard appearance emerging. I think a guy's masculinity is still defined more by what he does than how he looks. (I'm speaking about straight males here, for the sake of simplicity. I do not mean to offend, but if i included the gay population as well, my post would have to expand to a 10 page essay). Granted, there are ideals for men portrayed by the media; just look at any underwear ad. But guys who vary from that ideal appearance aren't seen as less masculine. A guy who's 5'2", or has a bear gut, or doesn't exactly have muscular arms, isn't considered any less of a man.

I think the reason women have an appearance standard and men not nearly as much is because men control more of the media than women. Since they control more, they can present their ideal more.

I hope that made some sense.

[alpha12]

Well, I'm losing muscle definition in my upper body following an injury/surgery, and I certainly feel like the increasing softness is not as masculine, but I don't question the masculinity of men who don't work out--just that *I* feel more masculine when I look/feel stronger, particularly in the arms/shoulders.

I totally agree that with maleness comes a whole lot of social acceptability of being fat. I have a bit of a gut (ironically enough, mostly from having had two full-term pregnancies) and it certainly fits my clothes and my look better when I dress in masculine clothes. I really like the feeling of substantialness that comes of having a bit of heftiness.

A good friend of mine who is a woman has a pretty similar body type/weight (5'8"/180) and she agonizes constantly about being fat. I'm really happy with my size, although I'd like to have less flab and more muscle.

[AnonyMouse]

I tend to feel a lot like I'm insufficiently masculine - especially when I look at some of my male family members, who are taller, broader-shouldered, and generally more unquestionably male than I am. It feels terrible to look at myself and see someone short, soft, and by all comparison wimpy.

But does that really keep me from being a man?

True story: I was in town the other day when I saw two guys in the same store. One of them was shorter than me. The other one had man-boobs so big he could have used a bra. No one would ever doubt that those two guys were guys.

I accepted a long time ago that I would never look like Johnny Depp (I'm still working through never looking like Zac Efron, but... eh.) But most of the time, the alternative is not feminine. I think of myself as a short, sturdy guy who happens to have some physical problems - a lot like my dad, but smaller and with more boobs. Which isn't to say it's not a problem. Being the runt in my family (discounting a few of my short aunts) has always been something that bothered me, especially since I was taller than many of my cousins (even the girls) as a child. It's easier to deal with if I don't also have to be a woman, but it's still frustrating.

[7sisters]

Not to go off topic, but handling your own expectations of yourself may be hard. And we are all hard on ourselves. But the nice thing is that girls (if you like 'em) like all kinds of men in all shapes and sizes. So when it comes to a real relationship and love, you'll eventually find a girl who loves you just the way you are. Just look in the right places.

[Kid Flash]

This has been something that's been eating at me recently. I would like to look versatile as a boy or girl or more androgynous.

I would like to look more masculine than I am now, and I've been actively working towards that by working out more often and I'm going to be cutting my hair short at the end of the summer and honestly I feel really good about my body. But I've been hearing criticism about skinny girls, pale girls, girls with small breasts, that look more masculine, all things I like about myself. My mom doesn't want me to get my hair cut because she says that I'll lose my sense of femininity and feel like I look like a boy. It's a bit irritating, because that's sort of what I'm going for.

And damn, I wish I was taller. T.T

[Lex]

Hah, it's funny, everyone seems to think that it's okay for a guy to be overweight, but not okay for a girl to be overweight. Yet, as a guy I wish I were thinner. But as a girl, I'm totally fine with being overweight. Maybe that's just because I like curvy girls. :P I don't know, I just think that women can pull it off better. More weight for them means more womanly curves, whereas more weight on a guy usually just means a gut.

I'm still okay with being heavy as a guy, I just wish that I had broader shoulders to balance out my pear shaped body.

[AnonyMouse]

Not me, Lex. In fact, being a guy has given me more motivation than ever before to shed these extra pounds, instead of just waiting for someone to come along who "loves me for who I am." Before, it was totally okay to be obese, because, c'mon, there are so many guys into fat girls today.

(Pay no attention to the finger steaks behind the stomach lining.)

In general, though? Yeah. Problem is, as I've heard it, women aren't so stringent about the body shapes of their partners as men are. They let the men get away with this horrible double standard. Which is somewhere between a pity and just plain stupid, 'cause as you've pointed out, women can get away with a lot more fat and still look pretty good.

[Lex]

Well if someone doesn't "love you for who you are" then do they love you?

[Fab Karen]

For men: as a whole, no, but there is a subtle class type thing: the guys with the chiseled jaw ( such as George Clooney ) are seen as "more manly" though there's also an aspect of even greater shallowness, some celebs have mentioned that before they became famous, women practically wouldn't give them the time of day. Conversely, though, they say women in general will overlook appearance to an extent in favor of personality.

[Ze]

Conversely, though, they say women in general will overlook appearance to an extent in favor of personality.

:w00t: I have a chance!

[Fab Karen]

You get flirted with by T-girls ( and at least a couple GG's ) here, and recently you said a GG talked of you being her "side action."
So I suspect this woe-is-me act is a ploy. ;)

[Ze]

So I suspect this woe-is-me act is a ploy. ;)

Why are you picking on poor widdle defenseless me? :noidea:

*snicker*

[Fab Karen]

When you make that face I just wanna hold you to my bosom ( even though fake ). :)

[Ze]

Success! :GD:

[Kieron Andrew]

When you make that face I just wanna hold you to my bosom ( even though fake ). :)

Wow! Ze is getting offers of bosom hugs, tell me how you do it dude lol

[AnonyMouse]

Well if someone doesn't "love you for who you are" then do they love you?

Now I'm reminded of that quote from Teen Witch. Something like, "I don't want him to love me because I'm smart, I want him to love me because I'm pretty!"

You're right, of course. People do have to love you for who you are. Let me try and explain myself better.

I don't want being fat to define the kind of people I date. I don't want to date someone who's into my blubber, because I'm not into it. I also don't want to date someone who's not necessarily into my blubber but is willing to put up with it. I realize that there's a certain amount of "settling for" that goes into any relationship, but since I don't want to be fat, it doesn't make sense to me to hold out for someone who doesn't want me fat either but is willing to overlook it (as opposed to overlooking it for now and help me work past it, which I would definitely accept). Now, if I was into this body type, absolutely, I'd want someone who loved it. But I'm not, so I don't.

[Lorileah]

Wow! Ze is getting offers of bosom hugs, tell me how you do it dude lol

:sniffle is how he does it. The actor he is.:tongueout

[Lex]

Now I'm reminded of that quote from Teen Witch. Something like, "I don't want him to love me because I'm smart, I want him to love me because I'm pretty!"

You're right, of course. People do have to love you for who you are. Let me try and explain myself better.

I don't want being fat to define the kind of people I date. I don't want to date someone who's into my blubber, because I'm not into it. I also don't want to date someone who's not necessarily into my blubber but is willing to put up with it. I realize that there's a certain amount of "settling for" that goes into any relationship, but since I don't want to be fat, it doesn't make sense to me to hold out for someone who doesn't want me fat either but is willing to overlook it (as opposed to overlooking it for now and help me work past it, which I would definitely accept). Now, if I was into this body type, absolutely, I'd want someone who loved it. But I'm not, so I don't.

There we go, that makes a whole heap more sense to me. I can totally understand that. I guess for me, because I'm attracted to the body shape I have, I don't question people being attracted to me.

Although currently there are a few people trying to get into my pants and it's a bit of a culture shock. Considering the way I was viewed and treated in high school, I'm now thinking, "What the hell? How did this happen? Did I change, or did everyone else change?" It's weird.

[lavistaa62]

Louis has a great skit on learning to love your body- your sh**ty body as he puts it. Basically nobody's happy with their body especially the people with physiques that many other people admire. The more they pimp, the more they see issues with themselves. yep- I've objectively got to lose weight and get in better shape but subjectively, I'm only going to use that recognition to motivate myself; not beat up on myself. I always try to remember, "Where you are, you're there".