The order of gender identification

[Lexine]

While it's true that we can usually win people over with our charming personalities and our interesting stories, some people we've encountered while we've been out en femme want to be super polite to us that they want to properly address us as "Sir," "Ma'm," or "Miss."

I'm wondering if some of the girls here have identified a certain order in which people look at them in order to identify us as a boy or a girl. Yes, I know that not everyone is looking for TG people all the time, but like in the statement I said above, sometimes they just want to be polite.

This is the order that I found to be true for me. Basically, just go down the list and stop when the criteria is met.
1. Does the person have facial hair? If yes, then male (And yes, I am well aware that some women can have facial hair (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frida_Kahlo), but it's not a prevalent trait.)
2. Does the person have no pronounced breasts? If yes, then male.
3. Does the person have an Adam's Apple? If yes, then male.
4. Does the person have a "deep" voice? If yes, then male.

[sandra-leigh]

Face shape has to be somewhere high in the list. Certainly my voice gives me away, but it is uncommon for someone to get nearly as far as my voice before "reading" me.

There are gender recognition computer programs that work on the basis of certain facial distances and distance ratios, and which claim to be 90% correct. For example the eye socket orbital bones are deeper on males, and no wigs or clothes or plucked eyebrows are going to disguise that on me.

[charlotte_sp]

Recently I've been playing the gender-guessing game from just a quick glance.
Even at a long distance, the way they walk seems to give it away very quickly.
IMO, that is the biggest cue.

It depends on whether they're sitting, standing, or moving, but usually:

1. Movement (if they are walking).
2. Hairstyle (also eyebrows/forehead/jaw from the front)
3. Hips
4. Facial hair
5. Chest
6. Adam's apple

If I'm still not sure, I just give up at that point XD

On a related note, I read an article about determining gender from skeletons.
Apparently, specialists can distinguish gender with pretty impressive precision:

Only Pelvis: 95%
Only Skull: 92%
Only Mandible (jaw): 90%

[Stephanie Miller]

I would have to place presentation way up on the list. I usually see someone at a distance prior to being close enough to hear them or see beard shadow. And because of that distance I see their posture and how they carry themselves fist. The way they are walking – feet apart or in line, hands and arms in close to their waist or out like they are ready to draw down on someone. Remember how young girls put books on their head to help them practice walking without bobbing up and down? Watch men walk. We’re roller coasters while women (for the most part) are smooth gliders.
Just my thought on how I see us.

[TxKimberly]

OK, not exactly what your asking about, but related to it. Someone here posted a link to this a long time ago and I found it fascinating and kept the link. It demonstrates how your expectations can color your perceptions:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBPG_OBgTWg&playnext_from=TL&videos=kwGI-9CtDRc

Trust me, you HAVE to go take a look at that video! lol

[Jenna Lynne]

The walk is important. A few days ago I was driving down a long straight stretch of road and saw a pedestrian far ahead (and moving the same direction I was). I was able to gender her as female before I could see any other details, simply by the way she walked.

My two cents: If you can do the voice, do the walk and gestures, and get rid of the facial hair, you'll fool most of the people most of the time.

Jenna

[sandra-leigh]

A few days ago I was driving down a long straight stretch of road and saw a pedestrian far ahead (and moving the same direction I was). I was able to gender her as female before I could see any other details, simply by the way she walked.

I've done something similar without even observing the walk: if I see the silhouette of someone a couple of blocks ahead at a bit of an angle, I can often (but not always) identify their gender even though I cannot see any details of their clothes or aspects such as hip-to-waist ratio. I do not know what it is that I key on, but what-ever it is, the process is very fast and unconscious.

I think sometimes that we must have evolved to distinguish gender traits very quickly even in poor conditions. Hypothetically, it might have been important in threat evaluation -- or in, ummm, "opportunistic mating".

[Rachel Morley]

Here's my :2c: I agree with your list. Any of those things will certainly give off strong gender clues that will make people think that the person is male.

Like Sandra and Jenna ... I too have played the gender guessing game. I kinda do it to help me understand why people think what they do. Typically, I'll be driving or walking somewhere and I see a person in the distance and I say to myself, "what gender are they and why do I think that?" Usually it's their overall stature, the clothes they are wearing and the way they are walking that tells me first, what gender I think they are. If I'm a little closer then items 1 & 2 on your list come into play. The last two items on your list I never seem to get to as I've already made a determination before I get that close. I guess the last two could be used to try to read a very passable person.

[Shananigans]

Need to be careful though. Some women have pronounced Adam's Apples. One girl I went to college with definitely did.

Hmm...

Now, I'm suspicious.

Damn, this forum!! Haha

[Kate Simmons]

I avoid titles and pronouns for the most part. If I know someone's name, I use it. Otherwise I just say something like "Hi, could you...?" What someone is is really not that important to me. :)

[Jonianne]

Need to be careful though. Some women have pronounced Adam's Apples. One girl I went to college with definitely did......

Some women CAN have very pronounced adam's apples. A woman in my church had a very pronounced one - she was very thin, except when she was pregnant (twice) and had kids.

I think having a femme face is the most telling (no matter how long and femme styled my hair is, I still get sir'ed 95% of the time).

If someone seemed to be presenting as female in general, I would address them as ma'am.