Political -out and about - educating or freaking out alone in the closet?

[HillaryArtemis]

After just having read Helen Boyd's book - My Husband Betty - I was struck deeply and profoundly with many thoughts.

She had many valid points and got me thinking. I will just list a few:


1) Women have earned the right to wear pants over the last hundred years of women's politcal action, but we CDs complain we can't wear skirts. Well we just haven't earned it yet baby.


2) We need to be out educating or at least helping with causes (even if only financially) that our friends from other supportive minorities are working towards. We need to be helping those in the gay, Bi, transgender, transexual, and SMBD communities.

3) Stop being so homophobic and harping on being straight all the time. Isn't this why you hide your lipstick and skirts? Now, this point will not be liked, but TriEss the international CD politic CD wing has tried to differenciate CDs from the gay since their founding. They did this to legitimatize the CD movement in the eyes of the straight. So at least, we could say that we are not perverts like them (the gay). We are not just a club of normal white males who just happens to wear dresses - we are diverse - sexually and otherwise - so see yourself for who you are.

4) History, philosophy and listening. Review our trans history, women's history, gay history etc ... Be educated especially about those whom we strive to emulate women. Get educated learn about how hard groups fought in the past for things - see Stonewall and the sufferage movement.

5) Stop or tone down dressing according male fantasies. This not only reaffirms oversexed female stereotypes, but separates us from real women, who try to break these stereotypes their whole lives. We don't need any five inch heels and belly button high skirts for a walk in the park.

6) Listen to your wives. Tell them early or before you marry them. If you have fears about your sexuality, then don't marry and think that a good conservative woman will cure you.

7) Do something, get out of that closet. We can't earn the right to wear skirts in there and the longer that a CD spends in the closet the worst his coming out will be in his fifties or so. Rash decisions will be made if coming out is too late. Now comng out doesn't mean broadcasting to the whole world. You decide what it means to you ...


I want to again recommend that you all read Helen Boyd's book and give it to your wives. I have been lurking around this web site for the past few months and have dissappointed by some of the lack of responses to a few of my postings: i.e. support for wives, Helen Boyd's book. I am only new to opening up about my trannyness, but I am refreshed after reading her book and having hours and hours of discussion with my wife and thiese issues. I don't want to be playing with myself in the closet anymore. It has too much potential for long term damage and is just not that much fun.

I am not going to open up and tell the world, but I am thinking about what to do to help support younger men who were feeling like me and helping to educate others about alternative lifestyles and stop hate. I am going to do something I know that. I am also going to do it with my wife - ever step of the way. Some of you might think, that lucky one, he has meet an accepting wife. Yes, my wife is accepting and I pray to God for thanks everyday - but by educating yourself and then taking baby steps then you can educate your wifes too - how far depends on you and them too. You can control your life. I am making plans. I plan on speaking in dress to University sexuality class this year. I want to help spread the word. (For this, I do because I can pass - if I couldn't I don't think I would do this ) I want to get involved in the gay community to help our friends who struggle against the kind of prejudice that we try to avoid by living in our closets. I know that paraphrasing of Helen Boyd's ideas is not perfect and that her and my comments both have the possibly of offense to others - BUT I stand by what I have said.

Most of all - I don't want another kid to grow up feeling alone the way that I did, I don't want another CD to be thrown out to the streets without support by angry and confused parents only to work those cruel streets, I don't want the HIV virus to spread by anyone who was just confused enough to look for love but really needed only support, I don't want to hear about the murders of CD prostitutes or others (see the movie Boys Don't Cry - if you haven't already), I want to educate and help to heal. I ask you as you read these modest words to take up the torch with me and to at least respond to this message - if only to respond to my words. Together, we can dream, I believe.

Is there anybody out there?
Nod if you can hear me? Is there anyone at home? (Pink Floyd)


JodyArtemis

[Teddie]

Hi,

My head is nodding. I like what you said. And, it makes sense. I'm going to find a copy of "My Husband Betty", and read it.

[Marda]

Hey There Jodi,

Now that ya got the can_o_worms open all the way ...

how many $$$ for a mouthful ?
~~~
Call me after the Fire Department is packed up and gone ...

Love / Marda

[HillaryArtemis]

After several hours of this message being posted on the board. I only count 2 replies in forty-five views. That is about five per cent. Are we failing? If so, what or who are we failing?

JodiArtemis

[HillaryArtemis]

I am glad to read your replies and hear your voices.

JodiArtemis

[HillaryArtemis]

Yes, Erica you are correct. She does come from a very specific background and set of life experiences as we all do. It is funny that there is no mention of children and families in the book as well. But still reading it challenges your intellect. As I said before, a thoughtful image of CDs will be a good image for CDs.

JodiArtemis

[Marda]

Hi Girls,

Oh ... sorry ... gotta go ... I think I got a "nibble" ...

backatcha

Love / Marda

[Amelie]

Jodi, I do read your posts, they sometimes involve having a wife or family, which i can not respond, for I don't have that.
But I will respond here. You say your going to, University in dress, but you say only because you pass otherwise you wouldn't. There are many CDs out there who think they do not pass so in a round about way your telling them not to go out unless you pass. I think if you want to help, especially the younger CDs, we should not put so much into passing. It someone doesn't pass they should be encouraged to go out, ONLY IF they want to go out, some are happy in the closet. As far as the book is concerned, Helen says to dress down WHAT!!!! I'm sorry to disagree with her, you dress the way you want! In the movie Stonewall you had a group of gays sort of conservitve looking, so to make the image of gays acceptable to the public. But it was the drag-queen gays that created the spark in the movement, not the clean American types. Dressing down is not going to make a difference. The book might make a good read but like Erica said we are to diverse , you can not pinpoint one select type of person in this group. I think it is noble of you to try and help others, but it's no good if we have rules, someone will not fit in with the rules and be left out.

Your intentions are good.

Love Amelie

[HillaryArtemis]

Thank you Amelie,

You are correct that bit about being able to pass is vain of me. I have mentioned my problem with vanity before. All the world seems a stage for me and I love the stage. For this I am sorry if I offend. What I didn't do and didn't want to do in my post is define coming out of the closet. For some people that means just telling their partner instead of constantly going behind their partners back. You see dressing is not just dressing I believe. It is a highly emotion event, and the energy spent on it is energy that is taken away from some other relationship or activity. I believe that playing in the closet is fine, but CDs must do something beyond that. As for the dressing down part - I agree and disagree. It depends who you are dressing for. Dressing down I believe is important if you are going someplace casual. If you are clubbing, hell dress up. About Stonewall - yes it was the drag queens - yes it was the CDs. I am so happy that you responded. Please feel free to always disagree. Dialogue is very important.

JodiArtemis

[Scaredsis]

Hi Jodi,

This is the first I have ever heard of this book. I only wish it was around 30 years ago. Then I might still be married. My CDing basicly destroyed my marriage. Im not saying it was the only factor, but it was always there.

My ex tried to deal with it, but is was not for her. So I guess looking back I became resentful. You know what they say hind sight is 20/20. So here I am all alone in the closet.

Thanks to this site which I have only resently found. I have made major steps in finding the door to this closet. Most of the ladies here are very passable as you said you are. It is much more difficult when you look hideous in the clothes you love to wear. That is why I have always felt like a freak.


As Erica has stated there are all sorts of reasons and situations people are the way they are. I am sure my case is not alone. I am sure there are many who have a carbon copy of my life. Just as I am sure there are girls who can relate to your life, or any of the other girls. I am not able to get out and be active its just not me, so I stay here. This is my way to get a handle on who I am.


Well enough from me. I will have to read this book ( the title really jumped out at me ) if for no other reason than to see what I could have changed in my own marriage.


One more thing, I find it hard to believe that CDers bash gay and TGs.
I could never do that in fact they have my respect. They know who they are and do what it takes to live life to the fullest. My wig is off to all of them.


Sorry ladies if I went on too much. I love you all.


Hugs,
Betty

[Wen4cd]

:o :keeps mouth shut:

I'm gonna go be really nice to my wife now, so she won't write a book about me.

[Stelli]

I am still reading this book, takes time for me. But there is one very important fact that I would like to mention regarding this book: Author is not crossdresser. Author is wife of a crossdresser. The book is written from the viewpoint of a wife of CD. And that is huge fact to dismiss. Being SO to CD is indeed very complex thing to be, no easy task. I think that Hellen is brave and fair enough, but still, here and there it creeps out that outside understanding is very much unlike inside one. I would have possibly more comments as I go toward the end of it.

[Amelie]

Ok Jodi, I now understand what your saying.

Love Amelie

[Shy Charlotte]

I haven't read the book yet, although the premise for more public acceptance of crossdressers is truly enticing. I feel that it's true that we do need to make more of an effort to come out and make a positive image of ourselves to the outside world. Those of us who have done it before, we need to do it some more. I'm not implying shoving someone out of the closet before they're ready, but I do think that the more outspoken do need to make more of a public display, just to show that we're here to stay. I'll have to make a mental note to see when the next Gay Pride Day is out here, and I'm definitely going out dressed this Halloween (there's a section of Hollywood Blvd. that's closed that day in the gay section of town).

In defense of the Tri-Ess, I'd say that part of the reason that they differentiate that it's a straight-male organization (they made it crystal clear when I first met them), is three fold.

First, many CD's just starting out are confused and have no idea what's going on inside of them. Since the majority of crossdressers are straight, they would feel more comfortable knowing and interacting with an organization made up of people like themselves.

Secondly, they mentioned it to clarify the fact that the organization is non-sexual in nature, thus to clarify to those who think it's some sort of transvestite dating service.

Thirdly, I think it's just because of separation. Although when I was growing up (and to a couple of CD's I've spoken with, they feel the same way) I knew I wasn't gay, although wished it were that simple, so that at least I'd have a very open support group with which to interact. It turns out I'm not gay, although I get upset being lumped into that category by the ignorant. I personally feel that gay people are some of the best people on the planet, but being called gay would elicit the same response to being mistaken for Chinese. Nothing against Chinese people, but I'm just not one.

Heh, first post after being back and I'm already rambling....

nutshell: Tri-Ess Ok; If you can dress and not die walking out the front door, do it every once in a while; If you're not at that point yet, sokay, comes with practice.

Gad I missed this site

[ChristineRenee]

I'm with ya! I too have read Helen Boyd's book and just finished reading My Husband Wears My Clothes by Peggy Rudd. Another excellent book that I recommend highly for both CD'ers and their spouses or SO's.

One of the things that I have stated all along since becoming a member of this forum is the need to educate the public that we are not perverts, sex fiends, or whatever. I truly believe that we are the fortunate ones who have been given a gift of insight into our total existence as human beings. We are able to not only recognize the female side of our being, but embrace it and see the many positive attributes that the female of the species brings to humanity. The caring, the nurturing, etc. All the qualities that we as males have been "programmed" or "conditioned" not to have by society, not that we don't have these qualities within us or have the capability of developing them.

The old bromide that "Men are men and women are women and viva la differance" is gradually changing. People are begin to recognize that sex and gender are not necessarily synonymous. We are becoming freer to explore who we are as people rather than be confined to rigid gender roles and stereotypes. Society, unfortunately, has not caught up with this and continues to perpetuate the men should be men and women should be women way of thinking. So called "real men", continue to deny any existence in themselves of feminine attributes (at least to admitting it publicly), plus their desire to keep women "in their place" by regarding them as inferior or as second class human beings. This too has been changing over time since the women's movement of the 60's and 70's, yet society continues to hang on to "traditional" thinking and stereotyping, fearing apparently, moral decay and corruption and the end of civilization as we know it.

Only through more and more education of the masses, to include, perhaps, well known and admired public figures coming out and supporting all of us, will the necessary changes to societal thinking be opened up to include the understanding, tolerance, and acceptance, even if not total or willing, that we have continued to seek for so long now.


xoxoxox,

Christine

[HillaryArtemis]

Wow girls,

A number of excellent points raised. I believe that this is the type of thoughtful discussion that we need more of on this web site. There has been much talk about low level discussion on this web site these days.

I want to answer to several points:

First Betty, I don't really believe that there are many CDs who couldn't pass to some degree. With the correct make up and clothes, I think that almost anyone could look respectable going out. Sorry, but I can't say that you won't be found out when you open your mouth. This is a problem with us all save a few lucky ones. For this we need the help of our GGs (genetic girls), they can show us about make up and clothes. Sometimes you just have to reach out to them. Hell, ask your wife for help in a very nice way - little blittle she may rediscover her interest in these things and it she may eventually be less unhappy about the site of you if she was the one who made you up. Just an idea - what do I know? Let your pride down. - So, Betty I invite you to my house for a weekend sometime in the future and my wife will help you. She is great and we are talking about opening a finishing school for Boys who want to be Girls. Betty, contact me if you wish. See alone in the closet, we can't really learn the tricks that woman learned from their mothers, sisters and friends over their years of dressing.

Second, Wen I bet the book would be delightful. I look forward to seeing it in the bookstores.

Third, Stelli. yes, looking from the outside offers a different view. Though this outsider, wife of CD, view is not the true CD point of view it doesn't mean that it is not relevant. I believe that Helen is a keen eye and although she does miss some points and fails to go other places (not to deep on work issues either), her narrative is excellent and thoughful. When I travelled and lived in Asia, sometimes I was able to make observations about the culture that my wife (Asian herself) never had thought of before, but agreed with once I pointed them out. Sometimes those closest to something have difficulty seeing it.

Fourth, Tris-Ess, Char, I first learned about Tris-Ess from Helen's book, but after reading more and hanging around websites, I do sometimes catch a funny feeling that some CDs believe that they are not gay or even bi, when the engage is homosexual activities. This is strange, I agree with Helen here. The attempts for CDs to differentiate themselves from the gay can seem to be a form of homophobia. Personally I believe that we are all bi and that I am bi too. Sexual orientation is a construction like gender too, according to me. Maybe I am not the one to talk about this point then :D . I do agree with you that I knew if I had been - I guess more gay than straight, then being a CD would have been a lot easier. Actually, my trouble over this point almost cost me my life ten years ago. See I wanted a normal life with a wife, but my then finance couldn't accept me. This tore me into two pieces. Now it is passed though. My play with gender and sexuality continues. Setting boundaries for me seems not so positive - so I guess Tri-ess might not be completely for me.


Last, keep replying to this thread and make thoughtful other ones too. We need more talk here and more activism in the future. Write me, Betty, if you wish.

JodiArtemis

[Olesha]

Hilary
I am sat here wearing jewellery. skirt , blouse, thong suspenders and stockings. And why shouldn't I. I love it. Wearing womens clothes is so much nicer than mens. But unlike gays we have difficulty in " coming out ". I just wish I could. Cders are still seen in a different light. To misquote Marx " CDers of the world unite. You have nothing to lose but your boring mens clothes ".
Love to everyone
Olesha

[Marda]

~
(laird_tunderin'_geezuz-by ... what a racket comin' from that ": Political -out and about - educating or freaking out alone in the closet?" thread ...
those crazee wimmin are gonna skare all the fish away with all that cluckin' an' carryin' on ... geezuz_by)
~
Love / Marda

[Marda]

Hey Dear ...
~
dem feish r ripe_'n_reddi males fershuurr fershuurr ...
real suckerz ...
ya jis take dem fresh canned worms dat Jodi opened up dee odder day_der and lace 'em wit a bit o' lingerie and dip 'em in a teeney bit o' bath oil and dem feishs darnnear jump inta da fryin'_pan 4 ya ...
~
but don't tell nobody ... dat'l B r secret !!!
~
Love / Marda

[HillaryArtemis]

Oh Marda, you are cryptic.

:D JodiArtemis

[Marda]

Hi Tgirls,
~
Fishin' was *Great* !!!

How was the "Convention" here at the Forum ???

At what *Conclusions* did you arrive on the "Status of Tgirls" ???

IMHO *Every Home Should Have (at least) One* !!!
~
Love / Marda

[HillaryArtemis]

Will have to answer these later, girl friend.

JodiArtemis

[joannablake]

Greetings Girls:

Some of you might know me some of you might not but I sat here and read all the post to this thread and I have to agree with Hillary there are alot of good points being brought out in this discussion. I personally havent read the book, but I have read other books by another Wife who's husband is a crossdresser Christine mentioned her, Peggy J Rudd and I believe that she hits the nail on the head most of the time granted she may know somewhat what is going on in her husband head, But it is like she said in one of her books "The crossdresser must understand why they are doing what they are doing before trying to explain it to the SO's." This is so true I wish I understood why God in all of his glory decided to through curve balls in some of our lives. I grew up in a baptist church raised to believe that their where only two "genders" and that it was wrong for us to cross the line between them. But I believe that for what ever reason God made some of us a little bit more special than the rest of the world. That is why I am here on this site discussioning things with people that God created a little bit more special. I just hope and pray that the world one day will open its eyes and see that we are no different than anyone else. We eat, sleep and go to work just like everyone else does just because we have ladies underwear on under our clothes does that make us freaks of nature to the rest of the world?

I know I am being long winded here but I feel strongly like most of you of wanting the world to accept us and not be afraid of us. As for the Gay/Lesbian or even being Bi they are made special in there own way to I have lots of friends and family that have come out in the last few years saying that they are in love with someone of the same sex. I applaud all that have come out, but not all are ready to come out. I came out to the people that I trusted the most in my life it was the most difficult thing for me to do and i would say that it was pretty much 70/30 split 70 percent drop me like an old hat and thirty accepted me. If people are not willing to accept you as you then you are better off with out them. I just hope that one day my wife will understand this too. Well I guess I better step down off the podium and let some one else talk for a while. One last thing before I go thought I will gladly standbye anyone of you and hold the torch to our future.

Love Always
Joanna

[Marda]

Hi Sweeteez,

Realizing *Education* is a 4 letter word around here ... last I heard ...

Sometimes Even *GGirls* Have To Fight For Their Rights & Freedoms* ...

In this tough old world *Nice Boobs & Buns* just *Aren't Enough Anymore* ...

The *Choice* is Always *Yours* My Lovelies ...
~

copy from CBC Viewpoint August 26, 2004
"The myth of liberation" by Don Murray

"Paris! Paris outragé! Paris brisé! Paris martyrisé, mais Paris libéré, libéré par lui même, libéré par son peuple avec le concours des armées de la France..."

Paris! Paris violated, Paris broken, Paris martyred, but Paris liberated by itself, liberated by its people with the help of the armies of France...

It was a short speech, only 376 words – that's just a little longer than Lincoln's Gettysburg Address – but each one of them was designed to drive home a message: that France, once again, stood among the victorious nations by virtue of its own efforts to seize back its capital. France had redeemed itself.

The man who spoke on that day 60 years ago at the Paris City Hall was General Charles de Gaulle. In the debacle of the Nazi invasion of France four years earlier, in 1940, he had retreated to London. Unlike his former boss and mentor, Marshal Pétain, he refused any deal with the Nazi enemy.

De Gaulle became the man of the 18th of June. On that day he made a speech in a BBC studio that was broadcast to France. It was breathtaking in its sublime refusal to accept defeat and, seemingly, to accept reality.

France, he said, had been not so much defeated by a human army as "submerged by mechanical force." But this was only a battle in a world war. Eventually the power of mechanical force would reside with those fighting the Germans and then they, and the French, would be victorious.

It was prescient but, in the ashes of retreat and defeat, it seemed merely quixotic. Even more quixotic was the invitation from "me, General de Gaulle, to French officers and soldiers, to French engineers and specialized workers now in England to make contact with me." It was quixotic because almost no one heard the broadcast. It was equally quixotic because de Gaulle was relatively unknown, having been appointed deputy minister of defence just weeks before the military catastrophe.

Yet the speech led to the creation of the Free French Forces. Four years later they entered Paris to liberate it.

History and French textbooks have consecrated the words and the events; seen from 60 years on they have an aura of inevitability. There was no sense of inevitability at the time.

In 1944, de Gaulle had to fight a bitter battle, not against the Germans, but against the Americans and the British simply to get to France after the great Allied landing on D-Day. He had to fight to get his forces into action in France. Almost none were on D-Day itself.

And then he had to fight to stop the imposition of an American-British occupation authority in France. He outflanked the British and the Americans by a series of faits accomplis. His prefects and mayors, named in conjunction with local resistance cells, simply took power in newly-liberated areas. The Anglo-Saxons could do little but accept the obvious.

Finally he had to fight to convince the Supreme Allied Commander, Dwight Eisenhower, to send troops, French troops, to liberate Paris. The Allied plan was to push straight past Paris towards the Rhine River. Paris itself could wait a few
weeks, possibly until September.

But on Aug. 19, an uprising began in Paris itself. De Gaulle pointed out to Eisenhower that he could not afford to let the uprising fail. Or succeed. If it failed, there would be bloody reprisals by the Germans, recalling the failed Warsaw uprising just a few weeks earlier. It would be a stain on the Allies.

Success would be equally problematic. For the uprising was launched and led by French Communists, the strongest component of the French resistance. If it succeeded, they would take credit and possibly power in Paris.

Eisenhower was convinced. On Aug. 25 tanks and jeeps of the Deuxième DB, the French Second Armoured Division led by General Philippe Leclerc, entered Paris from the south. By the end of the day de Gaulle had made his speech of liberation.

Not one of the 376 words referred to anyone but the French. This speech was to be a cornerstone of the Gaullist myth that France had liberated itself. But de Gaulle, as he walked down the Champs Élysées the next day to the acclamation of hundreds of thousands of joyous Parisians, was acutely aware that many of these people had lived placidly without contesting the Vichy régime of Marshal Pétain, which had done the Germans' bidding.

And so his speech specified that Paris had been liberated by "the France that fights, the only France, the eternal France."

And France, if not the rest of the world, understood that there were 'two Frances' – those who resisted, and those who did not.

For almost 50 years, thanks to the creation of the Fifth French Republic under de Gaulle himself, that division remained. Those who had fought became Companions of the Liberation and were rewarded, frequently with high government office. The others had to work much harder for their rewards.

De Gaulle had built a political career out of rhetoric. He was a general who was also a fervent Christian. And so he understood that in the beginning was not the action but the word.

The action of the Allies helped push the Germans out of France. The words of de Gaulle gave the French a myth they could cling to in the next 50 years."
~

Love / Marda