Innocent things people do that hurt feelings

[subaru_forster]

Being called by male pronouns, and being defaulted to the "boys" side whenever activities are divided by gender aren't anything I can blame anyone for. (I mainly present male for now, awaiting a time that my work on myself makes an everyday female presentation practical). It gets on my nerves, hurts a bit, but hopefully I will get to a point where it's natural for them not to do this.

However, I have a few friends who joke with flamboyant drag queen voices and gestures. It's funny, I understand why, and I wouldn't feel right asking them to stop. But I can't shake that I feel flat out mocked when they do this!

Not looking for solutions, just a vent. Does anyone else experience bad emotions from things other people do that are really innocent, and just incidental to your TGness?

[Empress Lainie]

As I have been successfully presenting as a woman (yes, a gg, that I am not) for over 3 years now, my very first thought on seeing your topic was the pronoun thing.

Even thought she completely accepts that I AM a woman, when talking with her over the phone (she is across the country) my sister will, when excited about something, slip up and call me by my old name. I just say loudly: THAT IS NOT MY NAME, and she then replies something like: OK sister Lainie.

I have a gg friend of 20yrs now who also completely accepts me, and actually FORGOT I wasn't a gg the other day. It blew me away emotionally. But once in a rare while she will use the male pronoun when talking to her sons about me in my presence, and I think one of them does not know I changed name and sex.

On the phone I sound male, in person I don't sound really female, but have found that I am androgynous enough voicewise it doesn't matter. I know gg's with deeper voices and my mom was one, too.

Yes, I do feel some emotional pangs when it happens but I don't let it really bother me, knowing that it is just a reflex mistake, after all my sister knew me as male for 72 yrs and my gg friend for 13 as male.

[Katesback]

I myself don't loose any sleep over what other people think. If I was easily annoyed by thier opinions/ expectations I probably would have sat around making 1000 excuses for not transitioning and never went through with it.

But.........I did go through with it and now am complete. I got news for ya. All people get crap from other people for 1000 different reasons! Just part of life.

Katie

[Nicole Erin]

Oh yes, like I go to beauty school and some make it a point to remind me I am GM, not in a rude way or is it?

The best thing to do is like I do - don't associate with anyone if you don't have to.

It's like people want to deny you your presented gender, yet in your birth gender (in most of our case male) yet you are not man enough to want to date, take serious, etc...

There is a reason many TG keep to themselves.

[EnglishRose]

You know, I have absolutely no visual reason for someone to gender me correctly; but I still feel a little sad inside when someone refers to me with a male pronoun. It's unfair of me to expect it at this time, and the service industry teaches people to call people "sir" or "madam" or variations thereof.

Like recently I was out at the grocery store, I managed to make it all the way to the doorway out when a guy who collects carts from the parking lot came in and said, "have a good day sir." Argh!

[Empress Lainie]

Kristin I sympathize. One of my happy moments after I transitioned was when a grocery cart boy called me Mrs. N.

[Ze]

I hate the pronouns thing, too. Especially when I try really hard to pass and they still see me as "female."

I also don't like when they assume I'm male, only to get embarrassed and apologize when I open my mouth (outs me every time). Even when I tell them it's completely fine, they don't buy it. :facepalm:

[Karen564]

I'm so sorry girls, I wish people weren't so stupid..!

But don't worry, because after you do transition FT, 24/7, most if not all those male pronouns will go away..

But unfortunately there's always gonna be a male pronoun slipped in every so often by the ones that once knew you as a male in the past... , and that's why it's sometimes just best to pack your bags & start a new life far away..

:hugs:

[Ze]

But don't worry, because after you do transition FT, 24/7, most if not all those male pronouns will go away..

Uh-oh.

[Karen564]

Uh-oh.

LOL....

Well Sir, in your case, Yours stay male !...:battingeyelashes:

[Ze]

:whew!: You had me panicking there for a second. ;)

[carrie-ann]

As a 247 TG I understand ur beings I go through the same thing. What i have learned is that when some one does say mam or lady. It makes me feel like I'm in heaven. I make sure they get a great comment back from me to show my gratitude.

[kellycan27]

I posted in a thread and recieved a pm titled "You don't count". Although the body of the pm was complimentary.. and the sender was someone who I like and get along with, the title did hurt my feelings. I sent back a somewhat snippy pm back, but then realized that she actually was complimenting me and that there was no malice in her remark. I am usually not so thin skinned, so I apologized and chalked it up to one of those "hormone" moments....and I thought I was passed having those "little episodes":heehee:

Kel

[Karen564]

:whew!: You had me panicking there for a second. ;)

Don't you worry for even one second my friend, for your now living in good O Bah-Stin ...:devil:

[Nicole Erin]

Like recently I was out at the grocery store, I managed to make it all the way to the doorway out when a guy who collects carts from the parking lot came in and said, "have a good day sir." Argh!

Well part of that is -
Not just so much gender junk but a lot of people hate to be called sir or ma'am just cause the words, I don't know, to me it sounds like someone is trying to kiss ass.

My big sister hates being called ma'am just cause of that - it is like an old person word. It sounds like some old guy or old lady in business wear. My big sis isn't exactly a "ma'am".

In fact, *I* don't even like the word. I prefer it to "sir" but shoot, I ain't no old bat.

Too much butt kissing in today's society, like try calling customer service...
"Sure I would be glad to help you out with that" OH bull-oney! They sittin there with this big cheesy grin or something? Rubbing their hands together waiting for the next caller? All giddy.

When I hear Sir used at all, I think of Paul McCarney. When I hear Ma'am, I think of Queen Elizabeth. I think in the UK they don't use either term unless it is some high conflutent person riding in a stretch mercedes and eating Grey Poupon with caviar. I eat ketchup with my Burger King while driving a puny red clunker.
Do not call me sir

[Hope]

However, I have a few friends who joke with flamboyant drag queen voices and gestures. It's funny, I understand why, and I wouldn't feel right asking them to stop. But I can't shake that I feel flat out mocked when they do this!


I don't know... Sure, it's socially acceptable to make fun of drag queens, or pansies, or poofters, or effeminate guys... but I am not sure that makes it OK. These friends of your are either directly making fun of you, making fun of a segment of the gay community, or think they are making fun of all of us. That is not cool, particularly in a work environment, and it is completely acceptable to tell them to knock it the **** off. At the very least, if they are trying to mock transexual people, they should at least be well informed enough to know the difference between the transgendered and drag queens... otherwise the joke is their ignorance.

On the other hand - they might just me immature little boys who are uncomfortable with the transgendered, and making jokes is their way of burning off that anxiety. So you might want to tolerate it ... might. Regardless, it's still uber lame however.

The pronoun thing:

Yeah - getting the male pronouns sucks. I look at it like this - If I am passing as a guy, there is no reason why anyone should use anything but male pronouns when referring to me, I don't like it, but it is fair and reasonable. On the other hand, if I am presenting as female, there is no reason why anyone should use anything but male pronouns when referring to me... anyone who does otherwise, is just an idiot... with a little leeway given for the occasional slip-up. Of course those slip-ups are soooo telling of another person's mental processes aren't they?


Well part of that is -
Not just so much gender junk but a lot of people hate to be called sir or ma'am just cause the words, I don't know, to me it sounds like someone is trying to kiss ass.

Too much butt kissing in today's society, like try calling customer service...
"Sure I would be glad to help you out with that" OH bull-oney! They sittin there with this big cheesy grin or something? Rubbing their hands together waiting for the next caller? All giddy.

I really like people being polite to me, and to others, treating me with a shred of dignity and respect and all.

It is really hard to believe that we honestly can't even just be polite in society anymore without someone getting torqued about it. Seriously, you get pissed off when people are nice to you?

[subaru_forster]

I hate the pronouns thing, too. Especially when I try really hard to pass and they still see me as "female."

I also don't like when they assume I'm male, only to get embarrassed and apologize when I open my mouth (outs me every time). Even when I tell them it's completely fine, they don't buy it. :facepalm:

Now this, IMO, is a different matter. I can understand when someone calls someone by the gender they appear, rather than the one they feel as. But in your case, you are doing your damndest to present as your inner gender (a fine job of it too, btw, if your avatar is any indication). In that case, I say if someone "ma'am"s you, politely correct them. If they continue, I say correct them again.

[Ze]

Now this, IMO, is a different matter. I can understand when someone calls someone by the gender they appear, rather than the one they feel as. But in your case, you are doing your damndest to present as your inner gender (a fine job of it too, btw, if your avatar is any indication).

Why thank you. :ner: But that picture's fuzzy and far away.


In that case, I say if someone "ma'am"s you, politely correct them. If they continue, I say correct them again (this time politeness is a tad more optional).

Usually they don't fight me on it, they just get really apologetic as if they've insulted me. No matter what I tell them (short of saying the "transgender" word), they don't seem to quite get it. :doh: I'm like, "Ack! You got it right the first time! There's no problem!" When an issue like that pops up in public, it just embarrasses me.

Back to what others were saying, I don't necessarily mind the "sir" thing because it means I'm passing. I'm not as crazy about "son" simply because I'm sick of looking like I'm 12. I get "son" a whole lot more than I get "sir." I didn't even know that word was still in fashion!

[subaru_forster]

I don't know... Sure, it's socially acceptable to make fun of drag queens, or pansies, or poofters, or effeminate guys... but I am not sure that makes it OK. These friends of your are either directly making fun of you, making fun of a segment of the gay community, or think they are making fun of all of us. That is not cool, particularly in a work environment, and it is completely acceptable to tell them to knock it the **** off. At the very least, if they are trying to mock transexual people, they should at least be well informed enough to know the difference between the transgendered and drag queens... otherwise the joke is their ignorance.


I understand how my account of this can frustrate you, but I really don't think I gave enough information to draw those conclusions.

These are good outside-of-work friends of mine whom I know well enough that they don't mean to mock the transgendered. All they're really trying to do is poke fun at their own masculinity.

They are always respectful of me, and who I present as. The rule of thumb I give them basically boils down to "if the breast forms are on, I'm a she." All I really have to do is establish that I'm not doing it for anyone's amusement.

[Veronica_Jean]

Hi,
I know all too well that annoyance. Just the other day I had to call the cable company because everything was not working.

This nice polite guy asks for all the basic information, then says "Sir, do you know the last four digits of her social security number"?

Well being interested in getting things fixed, I just kept quiet. As the call continued it was sir this and sir that, and I finally had to say, "And you ARE talking to Veronica!"

After that he didn't say sir or ma'am either one. At least I felt better.

In all fairness, I know my voice sucks over the phone and I have only been full time for about 3 weeks. Still, it really pissed me off, so I decided to let him know :devil:

Not quite the same thing as your buddy's going on about things that are a bit unsettling. Last week at work I kinda let the guys know they were going a bit over the line. I know it will take time, honestly... they are guys!!

Veronica

[Hope]

I understand how my account of this can frustrate you, but I really don't think I gave enough information to draw those conclusions.

These are good outside-of-work friends of mine whom I know well enough that they don't mean to mock the transgendered. All they're really trying to do is poke fun at their own masculinity.

They are always respectful of me, and who I present as. The rule of thumb I give them basically boils down to "if the breast forms are on, I'm a she." All I really have to do is establish that I'm not doing it for anyone's amusement.

You said that you have friends who make jokes "with flamboyant drag queen voices and gestures," and that you feel mocked by this behavior.

I'm sorry, but what part did I misconstrue, or to which conclusion did I jump?

[Teri Jean]

This summer I was in the finishing phases of a remodeling job for a chairperson's office and Jim was commenting on how great it looked. Now I have been transitioning since October of last year, some nine months. Jim was giving his compliments but using the wrong gender pronouns at every turn so I conforted him gently. (-: I said to him in front of an office full of friends, his and mine; "Jim, you are now a chairperson for the department so we are now going to work on pronouns. They indicate gender as he and him or in my case it is she and her." We all laughed but the thing was a hit and he and the others got the point/request and have been doing much better.

Some people will be hurtful no matter what but most will honor your requests.

Teri

[Beth-Lock]

I too get he'd and even called by my male name, but it seems to bother me less and less, to the point I often don't even notice. (But when I am with a certain girlfriend, it gets her ticked off when they do that to me.)
There is one woman who calls me Mrs. ..., and that sort of takes me aback, since I never married. But then, I guess a lot of Miss ...'s get called Mrs. too.
What really used to bother me back in my cross-dressing days, was when I went out in public with a girlfriend, and she would repeatedly and not too softly, precede everything she said to me by my male name! That was more aggravating. On one occasion at a public dance, she did it so much I just started to laugh inwardly at how wrong things were going, and how it was ruining the time we were having. Then she followed it up by continuing dancing with me after the modern dance music was over, and the slow dance, close dance music started, and some of the other women in this straight milieu, started to look askance at the two women dancing close together. I was pleased in the end at how well I passed though, and comforted myself by thinking I was doing nothing wrong, because after all it was a Halloween Dance, even though only about a third of the folks were in costume. But I did not want us to get thrown out, so I dragged my date away from the bar table before she got really drunk and we went home. I never stopped chuckling about how amusing the whole thing was. It was also nice how on entering, a burly guy in a sports windbreaker rushed to open the door for me, treating me as a lady, and similarly, the cloak room guy held my coat for me to put it on, when I left. That was the first time I realized I could pass as a woman. So in the end, it was a big comfort and a major step encouraging my transition to living full-time.

[subaru_forster]

You said that you have friends who make jokes "with flamboyant drag queen voices and gestures," and that you feel mocked by this behavior.

I'm sorry, but what part did I misconstrue, or to which conclusion did I jump?

I apologize if I came across as accusatory. I said that my friends did something that made me feel mocked, and you seemed to think that this implied malice. (Again, if I'm wrong, I apologize)

They were only trying to mock/poke fun at themselves, so I decided not to rain on anyone's parade. If in my situation you would act differently, by all means do so if it happens to you.

But not everything that hurts my feelings needs or warrants censure. Sometimes the right thing to is to don the proverbial "big girl panties" and suck it up. I guess all I really wanted to share is that it's difficult to do that in some cases, and bring other such stories to the table.

[My Lady Marsea]

Having been presenting female full time for like the last three years I seem to have it down pretty much so I get the proper female pronouns or wutever like 9 out of 10 times. My friends who have only known me as fem (but know the real truth lol) are pretty good like 99% of the time, they slip once in a while but a certain look or a "jeez" will get an appology and life is good again. With SAs I get the right pronouns again like 9-10 times and the 10th one (batted a thousand yesterday on my day trip to San Diego) I just say I'm a ma'am sometimes adding, if in a pissy mood, or wutever, that they should like use their eyes or wutever, some of us girls have a masculan sound to our voice. On the phone, it's almost so totally always lame & hopeless, I used to like correct the other person but now just say to he-- with it, most times it's just another phone room thingie and you'll never get the same one again. All my business phone ppl treat me very well and most that have known or met me in person like in the last three years use female terms, where as those who knew me before aren't as good. Over all life is good and I'm OK with the existing pronoun usage at this point in time. I'm thinking of like dropping a few who are honoring my change but not my name (which is legal BTW) and continue to call me by my old dead name. This could lead to unneeded drama in the future, so I'd be better not to associate with them.

[lizlizzie]

As the innocent spouse who sometimes does this, it is not intentional. I use the female pronoun but on ocassion accidentally say he. I just correct myself and go onward.

Anecdotal - I do find that when my spouse is acting like a sterotypical guy, even though presenting female, is when I have a real problem with the pronouns. This past week was particularly bad and she told me that after going to the doctor last week she learned that her testerone was in overdrive.

Calling her by her female name directly is the most difficult part of the whole situation for me. I refer to her as Claire when talking to others, I think of her as Claire, but when I address her I say hun; I just can't seem to get past this problem yet. And in very serious conversations, where I would normally say, "Chuck, ...." I have to firmly watch myself. Since she knows I am trying, she respects my efforts and does not get upset when I mess up. But, from what I see, for most of us GG spouses, the name change is very difficult for us to overcome. I do not know why the name part is so hard.

[Kimberly Marie Kelly]

with a new name etc. I know I don't pass fully, but it doesn't matter, I know who I am and the people I work with call me Kim or Kimberly almost exclusively. Sometimes they slip up and call me 'mike' or refer to me as 'him', but it doesn't bother me. Why should I make a big deal over it, they correct themselves and feel bad that they used the wrong word or name. Doesn't happen that much anymore.

The only time I correct people is when in public and they refer to me as 'sir', I will correct them now and say it is 'Ms Kelly" and they will correct themselves from that point on. :battingeyelashes: Kimberly Marie Kelly

[ReineD]

Subaru, I'm sorry your friends aren't more sensitive. Maybe you should say something to them. If they knew that your feelings were hurt, wouldn't they want to stop doing what they're doing?


I think of her as Claire, but when I address her I say hun; I just can't seem to get past this problem yet.

It's odd ... my SO is not nor does she intend to transition but I had the opposite problem. It took me years before I felt comfortable using his guy name at all, even when he was in guy mode. I thought he was feeling internally female all the time, and he would not have appreciated being called by his guy name. So I wouldn't call him anything. lol. I just jumped right into whatever I wanted to say. I had no problem addressing her by her female name while in femme mode though.

It's better now. :p

[Victoria Anne]

The innocent pronoun slip is forgivable although it does hurt sometimes however courtesy is never a waste of time so be courteous when you correct them and you will gain courtesy in return and be remembered with a degree of warmth and you will help to put a good face on us all

[Myojine]

the one that i hear exsepcially in the military is "be a man"
or "youre a grownass man"

they hurt
ALOT but i hide my pain and just keep a straight face.
I always forget to cut my nails before drill, and i still have that autodefence of defending im not feminine and snap back at people about my nails, and hate myself for not cutting them. double edge...

[subaru_forster]

Subaru, I'm sorry your friends aren't more sensitive. Maybe you should say something to them. If they knew that your feelings were hurt, wouldn't they want to stop doing what they're doing?


I appreciate your concern, but no need to be sorry. These are great friends of mine, whom would stop the actions I'm describing moment I asked them to.

Though I do feel mocked by it, I feel that as their intention is to poke fun at themselves, I'd feel like I'm making them walk on eggshells around me, and thats not the kind of friendship I want to have.

If they were really trying to mock me (or anyone comparable to me for that matter) it would be a different story.

[Ziko]

I really don't care about pronouns. It's about context for me. There's a difference between someone calling you 'he' or 'she' because of your genitals and it's the way the english language works, and someone who is saying whatever pronoun to impart a gender role on you. At least, to me there's a difference. Pronouns only piss me off if I know the person I'm talking to knows otherwise.

Another annoying thing, but not really insulting, is if I tried really hard to pass that day and I just don't. It's a huge downer, but I'm not offended. Just kind of... Depressed.

The one thing that messes with me every time is someone "correcting" someone else about pronouns or anything. If someone calls me she, I let it go. If they call me he, I let it go. What makes me want to punch your face in is if someone calls me a he and then the person with me goes "No, that's a she."

Now admittingly I identified as androgyne for a long time so I guess I'm different from most of you on the pronoun thing, but my view has always been that intentionally correcting a stranger is worthless and only brings about unecessary conflict. No matter what they called you the're probably going to feel bad if you say they're wrong, and you're probably not going to see them again, so why bother?

To me, correcting a stranger on pronouns is about the same level as telling someone who said "God bless you" "I don't believe in God."
Just let it go... You know?

Aside from that, I hate pet names. Hun, chick, babe, girl, etc. Feminine pet names seem more insulting than masculine ones, but I dislike all kinds. Even if we're in a loving relationship... Just call me by my name. :|