Catching Up... And A Rant!

[Rhonda Jean]

First the catching up. I posted a while back about my girlfriend liking the "feminized male" look on me. With the encouragement of many of you I talked to her about it, and how I'd prefer full-on fem if I'm going to do it at all. Seems she was encouraging the fem-male stuff because she didn't think I'd go for the full fem thing. I disposed of that notion pretty quickly and openly. She couldn't wait to see it. When she saw me put on a bra for the first time and and saw me do my makeup for the first time she commented that it was pretty obvious that this wasn't my first rodeo. The cat is out of the bag. The whole cat. It feels wonderful. She's ultra encouraging. It's so wonderful to see her smile and hear her approval and genuine compliments for the full-on feminine me! I'm in a good place. I'll post more about this later.

Now for the rant. This has been eating at me for almost 3 weeks. I was on vacation and stopped by work to pick up my check. My GF waited in the car. I didn't plan to be there but a minute. I was wearing shorts and a women's T (but hardly noticable as such). My GF had flat ironed my hair and I was wearing larger hoop earrings than I usually wear to work. I didn't think this was a fem look at all. Just vacation mode. On my way out my boss called me into his office to talk about a project I'd been working on. Before I was even through telling him about it he says, "What's going on with your hair?" I've almost always worn my hair in a ponytail at work. This was one of the few times he's ever seen it down and probably the first time he's ever seen it down and flat ironed. I said, "Oh, I just didn't pull it back today." That was the beginning of a 20 minute assault on my appearance.

With the exception of only a couple of short haircuts I've had long hair my whole life, and I've never been confronted about it by anyone in authority. My hair has been as long as bra strap length during my time at this job and nothing negative was ever said about it. His rant included the length of my hair, the color of my hair, my eyebrows (He says, "The girls in the office say you wax your eyebrows." I said, "Yes, I do. Is that a problem?"), even my weight (I'm skinnier now than I've been in 30 years. Size 3 or 4 jeans, sometimes squeezing into a 2). He even went off about my earrings. I've worn earrings forever, again with no previous negative comment from anyone. He was not playing around. He was mad, and left no stone unturned. He treated me like a child. I was embarrassed and angry.

He asked me when I was going to get my hair cut and I said I didn't intend to, that I was letting it grow and when I felt it was long enough I'd keep it at that length. He said I might should rethink that. He said I look like a f#@%ing woman and he's tired of hearing the remarks from customers and employees about the female manager.

The line has been drawn. I've worn my hair down and flat ironed every day since. There is tension between us that there's never been. I'm pissed about it, and I'm not giving in. I'm in a good place in my personal life for the first time in a long time. My femininity is (I think) appropriately compartmentalized, and I don't think it's anyone's business how I wear my hair. I thought this kind of struggle was over 40 years ago. I'd never think about making such comments to anyone about their appearance. I'm stunned that it's come to this. I don't crossdress at work, which is what he made it sound like. I've always known that in this conservative business that I had to be careful about looking too feminine, and I never do. That particular day I was a little more fem than usual, but I was on vacation. I've seen people come in in all sorts of attire when they're on their own time. I wore my hair in a ponytail every day out of respect for the conservative environment. I kept my feminine looks pretty well out of the workplace (or so I thought).

I'm not giving in on this hair thing. I love my hair. My girlfriend loves my hair. We're both growing our hair longer. It's a personal decision that I'm very happy with. He commented on the highlights when I first started having them done, but in a good natured way. There's nothing good natured about any of this anymore. I'm far too old to be treated like a child. I'm mad about it. Work is not a fun place right now. I'm just now getting my personal life order and now this.

[CallMeMeg]

If your company is big enough to have an HR department, talk to them. Document what was said (like you did here). Hint "harassment lawsuit".

Good luck to you. It sucks to be at peace with yourself and have other disturbed people disturb that for you!

[mklinden2010]

There's no such thing as vacation at work.

You should have kept every second of YOUR vacation elsewhere. I would not show up at my work in swimsuit and flippers.... You describe the place as conservative, etc. It's on you to be consistent and not make waves for yourself.

Next time, send the GF in to pick up your check - even if you have to wait in the car, or, at the bookstore at the mall while she takes care of that for you. Or, screw it, go for direct deposit.

As to your boss... It's primarily a personal problem and will be seen that way by most people who pay more attention to friction than anything else. See if you can't resolve it between the two of you. If you can, it's a big win for you and your people and management skills.

If he's going to fire you, he can and will find a way if he wants to and it doesn't matter if he'd be right or wrong to do so. Winning a lawsuit, after the fact, is expensive, time consuming, and pointless for you - you already know how you feel about such things. Others may benefit from your efforts, but they won't be paying your mortgage three years from now when you're almost broke from paying the lawyers.

I don't know how you're going to handle this with him. I'd have to start with arranging a management meeting, at work (recorded, of course - with witnesses), to discuss what seem to be hard feelings. You like your job, you do a good job, you don't get the complaints he's getting - AND YOU ARE ONLY HEARING THIS FROM HIM.

"So, what's up and how can I do better if you, oh mighty one, have found an area where I can advance my career and make us both more money?"

That's good business.

Personal feelings and personal agendas should not get in the way of making good bucks.

Not yours, and, not his.

[Jilmac]

Rhonda, I'm glad you posted the update on you and your gf first, good news is always better than bad news. But WOW your boss seems to be going back into the dark ages when bosses were tyrants and all employees were treated like slaves. Even in a conservative business setting there shouldn't be any problem with the length of a person's hair, or even their manner of dress.

Now I'm assuming there is no union at your place of work, but if it had happened to me the first thing I would have said to the boss was "I'm just here for my check, I'm not here to discuss any company business, talk to me when I'm back from vacation". Once I was back from vacation, if the boss harassed me about my hair (or anything else), I would have filed a grievance with my union steward.

In your case, (and again I'm assuming there is no union), I hope you have an understanding HR department because you may need them to go to bat for you with management. Stick to your guns girl but don't do anything to put your job in jeopardy. I hope once HR talks to him he will realize that harassment has no place in the work environment in this day and age. :2c:

[Chickhe]

Contact your HR person (if you have one) and file a complaint. It is important to document what happened should your boss decide to fire you or something. If you don't tell anyone else, at least write what happened down on paper and date it (or send yourself an email)...that way you have some sort of record. The other thing to do is send your boss an email asking for an appology and to explain his actions...might tick him off a bit more, but you will probably capture some of his abuse in the email which you can then forward to HR or keep for your records.

I wouldn't wear your hair down to tick him off, it is a form of aggression, just do the same as you have since day one. You could encourage him to speak openly though so that other people will become aware of his abuse.

Workplace situations like that almost never end well, either you or your boss has to go.

[kimdl93]

Great news on the personal front....that GF sounds like a keeper! On the work side, I'd be careful. In an ideal world, we would be judged by our work, not appearances. This world is far from ideal, and I would hate for you to become a casualty of bigotry. Fight back if you think you must, or if you don't care who wins; but if you have a softer path out of this conflict, I'd give it serious consideration.

[VeronicaMoonlit]

I was wearing shorts and a women's T (but hardly noticable as such). My GF had flat ironed my hair and I was wearing larger hoop earrings than I usually wear to work. I didn't think this was a fem look at all.

Hoop earrings? Flat-ironed (and highlighted hair)? That's femme all right. Now to you, who's been on the slippery slope down the hill of androgyny into femme you might not realize how those little mini-body-mods add up.


"What's going on with your hair?" I've almost always worn my hair in a ponytail at work. This was one of the few times he's ever seen it down and probably the first time he's ever seen it down and flat ironed. I said, "Oh, I just didn't pull it back today." That was the beginning of a 20 minute assault on my appearance.

I can wear a femme tee and jeans and not look all that femme....if I have the ponytail, but the moment I let the hair loose it's very obvious that I'm trying to look like a woman. That's probably what happened to you. He saw the hair and it just hit him then and there and it "bothered" him.


"The girls in the office say you wax your eyebrows."
He said I look like a f#@%ing woman and he's tired of hearing the remarks from customers and employees about the female manager.

So people ARE noticing, and frankly you're not coming across as male very well.


My femininity is (I think) appropriately compartmentalized,

It's obviously not.


I kept my feminine looks pretty well out of the workplace (or so I thought).

You're not.

Veronica Rogers

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Hi Rhonda...I hear everything you are saying..

its totally not fair.. i hope you can think through what is likely to happen if things don't change.

I have learned after many years of slowly feminizing myself while working that EVERYBODY noticed...it was never ever mentioned to me while i was working...i only learned this after coming out to everyone (and getting let go)...

if you were in a situation where your obvious (to me anyway:o) femininity is well known and discussed behind your back...how would that impact your job and your feelings about this as a business matter? it something i think you may need to consider...



b

[JenniferB]

It may suck, but the question you may need to ask yourself is "how bad do I want to keep this job?".

[DonnaT]

It's your hair, and if there is no dress code or safety issue, you've a right to wear it as you see fit.

And when not at work, the right to dress the way you want, even if you do need to make an appearance to pick up your check. It your time, not company time.

Just ignore the ba . . . rd's attempts to get you to react. Something he could use against you that does not fall under Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 which prohibits discrimination on the basis of gender stereotypes.

[Rhonda Jean]

Thanks everybody. Well said and good advice. I'm hyper-defensive on this one. I think what makes it worse is that I'm relishing the new openness with my girlfriend and now I hit a brick wall on another front. A completely unexpected one at that. I didn't look in the mirror that morning (or any other work morning) and see a woman, a feminized male, a crossdresser, or what have you. I think that him saying I was "looking like a f@#%ing woman" was totally overblown. We have another male employee who has long hair, although not as long as mine. We've had a male employee who wore earrings. Nothing was ever said to them about it. I don't get that just because I ironed my hair or that my earrings were some fraction of an inch larger than some arbitrary male standard that I've crossed over into some cross-gendered territory. Even if I had, so what? But I certainly didn't think I had.

I would have thought that by now I could have cooled of on this. I haven't. My blood pressure must be through the roof by now. I guess I'll be the first to give on this by putting my hair in a ponytail again. I'm sure that wearing my hair down is seen as giving the middle finger. That is how I meant it. Probably not a good thing to do.

Another thing is, it's only been several weeks ago that I could have let all this cd stuff go, perhaps including the long hair. I'm kind of back in the swing of things now and relishing it all. Not good timing on this.

If there's a lesson for us all in this it's to not kid yourself that nobody notices or cares just because they don't say anything. Maybe at age 52 and having had long hair for virtually my entire life I should feel fortunate that this is the first and only time I've ever been confronted about it. I know my mother was confronted about it by the principal when I first stared to school. I don't know exactly what took place, but I didn't have to cut my hair, and back then I was the only boy with long hair and it was a direct dress code violation. I can't believe that all these years later the length of a person's hair is even an issue. Live and learn.

[kimdl93]

I really understand your frustration. I know you had to feel very good about yourself and your personal situation. Having a supportive, even enthusiastic SO, is so liberating. But don't let the dickish behavior of your boss affect you too much. Make whatever concessions you must, and accept that some of your co workers have noticed a few things. A pony tail is a small concession. And maybe after you've had a chance to cool down a bit, do a little recon - find out who's noticed, what they've noticed and what they're attitudes are. I wouldn't confront anyone - just get a sense of the environment you're dealing with. Remember, knowledge is power!

[Billijo49504]

Well as long as he's said you look like a --- woman. Anounce that you are going to transition and start going in to work, dressed as the other women are dressed. Then point out the gender discrimination laws. Sure they can get rid of anyone they want to, but it might make them think about it first. But you better be real good at your job...BJ

[Shari]

You were looking for a job when you found that one.

[mklinden2010]

Thanks everybody. Well said and good advice. I'm hyper-defensive on this one. I think what makes it worse is that I'm relishing the new openness with my girlfriend and now I hit a brick wall on another front. A completely unexpected one at that. I didn't look in the mirror that morning (or any other work morning) and see a woman, a feminized male, a crossdresser, or what have you. I think that him saying I was "looking like a f@#%ing woman" was totally overblown. We have another male employee who has long hair, although not as long as mine. We've had a male employee who wore earrings. Nothing was ever said to them about it. I don't get that just because I ironed my hair or that my earrings were some fraction of an inch larger than some arbitrary male standard that I've crossed over into some cross-gendered territory. Even if I had, so what? But I certainly didn't think I had.

I would have thought that by now I could have cooled of on this. I haven't...


R,

Having seen the facts of life a bit differently lately, you're probably more willing now to see this as a human rights issue than simply a matter of personal previlidge. And, having seen how vital such things can be to people - living their own lives without having to worry about losing their livelihoods - perhaps, rather than discuss such red herring tit-for-tat as your hair length or the size of various earrings, you'd be willing now to get that rainbow bumper sticker for your car...

So, you look like "a f@#%ing woman"?

When did looking like a f@#%ing woman become a bad thing? What's wrong with being a f@#%ing woman? F@#%ing woman have feelings too; f@#%ing woman need jobs too. Every f@#%ing woman is someone's mother, sister, wife, girlfriend, doctor, postal worker, accountant, lover, boss, dog groomer, Secretary of State, Queen, rock and roll star...

Anyone, man or woman, who disparages my SO is no friend of mine and my boss only because I always work for myself - even when someone else is writing the checks... If you don't think so, think about the "kiss off" you get if you get laid off or fired, "You're on your own; free country; wouldn't wanna be ya; nothing personal, YOU'll be OK..."

Disparaging my SO, even indirectly as he has done here via your exchange, insults her AND prompts me to question if the person making such statements is pushing another agenda. As in, "Oh, men, ducks, dogs, sheep, and, watermelons are sooooo much better than a woman." It is not uncommon, in attempting to destroy other people, to attack them personally about things which are personal and harmless to others.

"Tearing 'em down to get over on them" is a bullying tactic and it works because you realize, as you burn in frustration, that it's not only untrue, it's a broader and very unkind attack on other people. "No one is worth a damn, everyone is a f@#%ing woman a f@#%ing something or other."

The vicim of such treatment is tasked with the impossible - for one person alone - which is defending oneself, after being put on the spot, to explain yourself AND the entire culture while your attacker/accuser is also the judge and jury.

The problem is not you, it's him. The attack is not on you, it's on everyone - including him.

So, this is war, and not just civil war when his attacks take the first twenty minutes of your life, and then all the hours since then. Yes, a line has been drawn, but what is that line and what are you fighting over? You want to keep your job; he wants you to go to f@#%ing hell.

There is no such place, except in the hearts and minds of people like that.

But, it's a real place and nowhere you want the rest of the world to go...

Get that bumper sticker.

Find out what the rules are at work and play by them, but play differently.

Play better; win better.

[Sara Jessica]

Hoop earrings? Flat-ironed (and highlighted hair)? That's femme all right. Now to you, who's been on the slippery slope down the hill of androgyny into femme you might not realize how those little mini-body-mods add up.


If there's a lesson for us all in this it's to not kid yourself that nobody notices or cares just because they don't say anything.

First of all Rhonda, you clearly have a legitimate rant going on and it stinks that you are having to put up with this kind of situation.

I think the points above are very important. I've long espoused the "elephant in the room" theory in that even if people don't say anything, it doesn't mean they don't notice those "mini-body-mods" as Veronica puts it. I get really tired of those whose judgement is clouded by a dense pink fog who say "go ahead, just do ______ (insert mod here, shaved legs, painted nails, long hair, whatever) ...no one notices a thing. Wrong, they notice but are polite and just don't say anything (or they're catty and talk behind your back).

I'm in a very similar situation, pushing these mods to the point where people can't help but talk, yet I'm not hearing much of anything. And just when I think I'm done pushing the envelope, here I go growing my hair out though not (yet?) nearly as long as yours. As I've said before in these parts, I'm thinking the elephant in my room is singing show tunes by now!!!

Best of luck to you Rhonda.

[SheriM]

Jennifer has it right. Ultimately this is not about your rights or if you have crossed a line or if your boss has gone too far. It is about keeping your job. If you continue to push the envelope, there is a good chance you will loose the job.
Unless, I was willing to be jobless, I would tone it down a little to give your boss a victory. You may not like it but he is your boss. He may not be always right but he is always boss. Put your hair in a ponytail and leave the ultra low rise jeans at home.
Good luck.
SheriM

[JoanAz]

Without going in to too much detail., what kind of company/work do you and the company do?
For Example, as a Commercial Pilot I could not go the work with Pony tail, earings, etc.
But NOW I can do as I please, most of the time,,,,,wife does not always approve....:daydreaming:
JoanAz

[Violetgray]

Personally, I agree with Veronica. I'm totally on your side with this, but there's no way that this should have blindsided you. Unfortunately, it sounds like your perceptions are a little off-center as far as what is masculine and feminine appearance.

That having been said, I admire you for having the courage to stand up for yourself in this tough situation. It sucks that one guy with the power is the source of all this negativity. Also, you look great!

[DemonicDaughter]

The fact that your boss was that upset and used specific vulgarity is a huge indication this man (and possibly others at your job) are homophobic and think you're gay. The fact that he's implying you need to "rethink" your appearance sounds threatening.

Be extremely careful! I cannot possibly stress enough how situations like this can easily and quickly turn violent. I've be an advocate for GLBT rights since my teens and spent far too much time listening to situations similar to yours and how they turned deadly.

Its great that you are standing up for yourself and who you are but be smart about it and make sure you keep yourself out of dangerous situations.

Best of luck!

[Rhonda Jean]

I work for a relatively small company. No HR dept.. I've cooled off considerably (finally). Just writing about it and reading all these great replies really provided a relief and some much needed perspective.

I do have a little difficulty definining the line between adequately masculine and inappropriately feminine when it come to myself. I can see it in others in a second, but when it comes to myself I tend to see it through rose colored glasses. It's frustrating as hell to see other (masculine) guys be able to add these little tweaks like long hair and earrings without even raising an eyebrow, but when I do it it's a Federal case. I've never looked masculine in my entire life. Particularly considering my hair and my pathetically skinny body I've always had one foot over the line between masculine and feminine even on my most masculine days. One little tweak and I was way over the line.

As much as I love looking like a woman, there have been many times in my life when I would have liked to look more typically masculine. I wasn't ever willing to cut my hair or grow a beard to accomplish that, but there have been times that I tried desparately to gain weight and build muscle. All to no avail.

I'm not TS. All this cross gender stuff is very much a part of me, but it's not all of me. I like my job. I really thought that for all these years I'd pulled of pushing the envelope a little without breaking it. Evidently I'd broken out of the envelope a long time ago and didn't know it.

I'm no activist, and I really don't want to do anything to jeapordize my job. I've already backed off. I don't intend to cut my hair, but I'll put it in a ponytail, and I'll keep getting my brows done. I'm going to keep wearing modest earrings, but if that becomes/continues to be an issue I'll leave them off completely.

Even my GF has reitterated what many of you have said. She says I don't realize how feminine I look when I'm not trying to. That's quite a compliment, in a way. It's just not good when it comes to the job.

Hopefully, cooler heads will prevail. Thanks you all so much for you advice and support.

[Nicole Erin]

I would talk to an attorney NOW.
Look at it like this - you can consult for free normally, let him know what happened. That way, WHEN this prick decides to fire you, there will be previously documented stuff about this. Just be like, "Alright here is the situation... ...would I possibly have a case?"

Hell with a bunch of ass-kissing, this boss of yours has already decided he has it in for you.

If you won a decent law suit, it would provide maybe enough money to tide you over for a while as you search a new job.
Your boss is not a human but a neanderthal and should be treated as such.

Hey also i wanted to add - if he starts acting a certain way, do not tell him anything, do not drop hints, just let him continue making mistake,s as they say, never interrupt the enemy while he is making a mistake. This is of course after you have seen an attorney. Just keep doing what you are doing, and giving the boss rope to hang himself.

Do us proud, woman. Us TG need more victories in our corner.

[Pythos]

I am sorry, but as I read this I see oh too many "go along to get along".

This boss is an ass. Period.

As far as the statement of "there is no vacation at work", what sort of non sense is that? A person on vacation can show up to pick up a pay check looking like a complete slob (seen that often at my old job), but they can't show up looking fem? Once again the attitude of "go along to get along" rears its ugly head.

Now I will say the OP is very daring, and is making more ground than most of us can say here. I am too scared of ruining my reputation even showing up to my job in leggings let alone a skirt, or my preferred appearance. But you must realize to some fools your look is extremely feminine. What you need to do is look at the women at your job, and point out ANY that have what are considered "male" traits.

You also need to document EVERYTHING this boss of yours does when it concerns you. Make a report to the ACLU if things get out of control. When your boss used the swear word to describe you should have shut him down. HE HAS NO RIGHT to address you in that manner.

Good luck to you, and I hope things work out.

[NicoleScott]

Document. Everything. In case you need it.

[Pythos]

Just curious.

What generation is your boss?

Reason I ask is I notice there is an age range that seems to think they can address people in the manner he addressed you.

[Rhonda Jean]

Wait! Pythos, I wasn't wearing a skirt! Just shorts. My point was that I (in my eyes anyway) wasn't dressed fem. The T shirt was a woman's, but other than a basically unnoticable more open neck, narrow neckband, and being a little more fitted, it was indistinguishable from a mans. It was mostly a long hair rant that I just totally don't get. I guess I've had long hair for so long that I just don't consider it an exclusively female privlige. Don't get the arbitrary male/female earrings thing either. I'm old enough to remember when earrings for men simply did not exist, even in thought. But, since earrings for men have become commonplace I'm completely lost on the significance of "men's" hoop earrings not exceeding a certain diameter. I don't even know what the appropriate maximum diameter is, or for that matter what the maximum length is for dangles. Who makes these frickin' rules! Is there some refference to consult on this? I think this subject warrants a separate post. I'm ready for something less serious.

[Pythos]

Oh, don't get me wrong. I was not thinking you were wearing a skirt.

It is just there are too many people that consider long hair to be a symbol of women (thank you Paul (the apostle, and the damn Roman haircut non-sense). I also do not see that many men wearing hoop ear rings.

But I too ask, who made these rules. As far as I am concerned I am only truly cding when I put on breastforms and tuck.

Everything else is arbitrary and now a days stupid and sexist rules.

Skirts are not necessarily feminine anymore than a pink men's dress shirt.

But I will be honest I would love to wear a skirt and hose for work or other things were I am forced to wear pants.

[Nicole Erin]

The biggest scare for this boss - I imagine he is conservative. Heh, I would put money on it.
The straight conservative breed is dying and they are scared to death.
They are becoming a minority and are the most discriminate.

The haters of diversity always lose in the end, if the good guys stand up. The nazis lost, the south lost, what a pattern!

Nice little rock song about this, little point-counterpoint, in the end, encourages fight for freedom - Helloween's "We got the right".
THIS, ladies, is a song for TG, f*** stuff like Shania
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAgrol-SwgY&feature=related

Lyrics -
http://www.lyricstime.com/helloween-we-got-the-right-lyrics.html

[JoanAz]

I would go so far at to carry a small recorder in my Pocket at all times.
And they are verry small...
If the BOSS decides to chew you out again and use "F$@# women" again, you would have some proof to help save your "Buns"

If not there is no fowl, no play.

JoanAz:hugs:

[mklinden2010]

>>As far as the statement of "there is no vacation at work", what sort of non sense is that? A person on vacation can show up to pick up a pay check looking like a complete slob (seen that often at my old job), but they can't show up looking fem? Once again the attitude of "go along to get along" rears its ugly head.

P,

As an employer, I own your time at work while you are on the clock. You pee when I say "pee," etc. As a general rule, do not show up when you are off the clock as it disrupts (looking like a complete slob?) the workday for everyone else. Companies that do not have such policies, may find that they someday will need to make one.

You may not like it, but I pay the rent where you come in to pick up your check. I get the floors done, the walls painted, the lights adjusted, etc. to create a favorable business climate for doing business. You want to come in to pick up your check? Do it is a businesslike way. Don't piss on the rug, fart, pick your noise, curse, or start making a scene, of any sort, while you are here.

I have no particular claim on your time while you are off the clock and at home or on the town. But, if you are in company uniform, or, speak of the company, even telling people you work for me, I expect you to speak and act as if you were at work. Don't go screwing all of us, you included, by bad-mouthing us all off the clock.

You may not "automatically" show up at work to pick up a check, etc., lest someone get distracted, as this "boss" did, who then spent 20 minutes on the clock violating an employee on their personal time. Believe me, if it happened at my business, I'd be all about business on both their cases. I do not pay for b.s. You want comp time sometimes? So do I.

Ultimately, work and business is about profit. We make a profit, or we're out of business and everybody's job goes away. Anyone who thinks they can run things better, can "put up or shut up." If it's a money-making success, yay. If not, try again or hit the door. Only so many hours in a day can be used in discussions; not a lot of profit can be had by talking alone.

And, don't forget the customers. They don't come in wanting or expecting to see people distracted from doing business by personal issues. I go into a place of business to get some business done for ME, not for anybody else. I don't, and I don't expect my customers to appreciate, being frustrated in getting business done. Business is business, the rest - such as "How's the weather?" chit-chat, is usually barely necessary b.s., if at all. Business is not about friendship, friendship trades in something other than cash.

You come to my support group, or, I go to yours, that's our time and place to work things out - on our time and energy, not time and energy paid for by someone else.

In my company, everybody gets a lecture now and then - even me. It's called communication. We say our piece, we respect what each of us has to say, and we go back to work. And, if we don't proceed that way, somebody is out a job and I'm out an employee.

Respect the process - you may get more respect than you can currently imagine in return.

Almost nobody gets promoted for being a good crossdresser.

But, all sorts of people get promoted for being valuable employees.

It's good business.

[Pythos]

I am fine with your attitude....IF.

If I am not made to work more than 8 hrs a day, 5 days a week.

I was in a job that was very near 24/7, I noticed that job DOMINATED my life. During the time I was at that job my creativity, my styles, and my social life took major hits. This was justified by my boss saying "I got paid overtime". I put in an a ten hour day, but was "on call" the rest of the time (unpaid). I was expected to show up, in uniform to report for work at any moment ASAP. It takes time to get out of the stuff I wear on my off time. Fairly I should have just needed to put on the uniform shirt, tag, and leave on my leggings or even skirt. A woman by the way could do exactly that.

Now, I know I am not the only one to face the job taking over the life.

A boss in this day and age can fire you for your off the job behavior if they do not agree with what you do. Rightly or wrongly.

as far as think about the customers?

I am all for that, as long as the customers realize I am human, have a life outside of my job, and so on.

A customer's opinion SHOULD NOT MATTER when it comes to issues outside the job if they are legal and hurt no one, which what we do is.

When I stated people showed up to work to pick up their paychecks, just take a look at people of Walmart.com, and you will get an idea of what I refer to. The pimp or gangsta look was quite prevalent.

Your attitude comes off as very authoritarian. "You will do as I say, because I pay your bills" Almost one step from a slave owner's attitude. As I said, that attitude is fine, as long as it does not infringe on my off the job life.

So, let me get one more thing. If I work at safe way, and it is the only grocery store in the city I live, does that mean when off the job I cannot go into the store as a regular citizen, just in my Goth style?

Really think about that.

[mklinden2010]

I am fine with your attitude....IF.

If I am not made to work more than 8 hrs a day, 5 days a week.

I was in a job that was very near 24/7, I noticed that job DOMINATED my life. During the time I was at that job my creativity, my styles, and my social life took major hits. This was justified by my boss saying "I got paid overtime". I put in an a ten hour day, but was "on call" the rest of the time (unpaid). I was expected to show up, in uniform to report for work at any moment ASAP. It takes time to get out of the stuff I wear on my off time. Fairly I should have just needed to put on the uniform shirt, tag, and leave on my leggings or even skirt. A woman by the way could do exactly that.

Now, I know I am not the only one to face the job taking over the life.

A boss in this day and age can fire you for your off the job behavior if they do not agree with what you do. Rightly or wrongly.

as far as think about the customers?

I am all for that, as long as the customers realize I am human, have a life outside of my job, and so on.

A customer's opinion SHOULD NOT MATTER when it comes to issues outside the job if they are legal and hurt no one, which what we do is.

When I stated people showed up to work to pick up their paychecks, just take a look at people of Walmart.com, and you will get an idea of what I refer to. The pimp or gangsta look was quite prevalent.

Your attitude comes off as very authoritarian. "You will do as I say, because I pay your bills" Almost one step from a slave owner's attitude. As I said, that attitude is fine, as long as it does not infringe on my off the job life.

So, let me get one more thing. If I work at safe way, and it is the only grocery store in the city I live, does that mean when off the job I cannot go into the store as a regular citizen, just in my Goth style?

Really think about that.


P,

Thanks for the questions.

Nobody, in a free society, "makes" anyone do anything. As I noted elsewhere, in reality, it's "every man and woman for themselves." Just think about how easy it is to quit a job and leave the employer in a lurch/how easy it is to get fired and have your world turned upside down.

If you take a job, you take it under the conditions in place when you are hired - and knowing that "the rules" are subject to change. I've had, "on call" jobs and I am my fellow coworkers were highly motivated - by self-interest - to call the customer and talk them into waiting until regular business hours for on site service. For those jobs, there really wasn't much we could do outside of working hours (due to the associated contractors not being open those hours to work with) but as part of "customer service" we offered a 24-hour hotline. On a rare occasion, it mattered that we showed up, but rarely. We all, including the owners, "Knew the drill" and we did what worked best for everyone - including the customer, in fact. Not all jobs are like those, but the point is that you take a job "at will" knowing what you're getting into and you live with it until one side breaks the deal.

My attitude is very authoritarian because I am "the" authority at work. This is not a jump roping contest in the garage or frisbee toss at the park. I screw up, people get hurt and it's my fault. You screw up, people get hurt and it's my fault you work there to screw things up. Customers, when upset, care NOTHING about your personal problems or mine. They show up to do business and, when the chips are down, someone's butt will get burned if they are upset. If a customer walks out and never comes back, YOU may never notice. I look at the numbers week to week and I notice - and bear the responsibility and the final consequences - as do you, your coworkers, any investors, and people who wish we'd stay in business. You have your time and your pride invested. I know what your time is worth, by the hour or by the week. Your pride, I cannot take to the bank, or, pay any bills with, unless it works to keep the business open and ready for the customers.

I would not, in any case, want or keep slaves. The incentive to NOT work is very high. What's in it for a slave if something doesn't work out for me? They can take another beating if they must, I can't afford to damage my working capital. Trapped in my own trap. No. Not even "No, thanks." Just no.

If you show up in Goth style and do your shopping quietly, politely and efficiently, you are my pal, my buddy, and my best economic friend. Thank you, thank you, thank you!