There are no transgenders

[Lorileah]

That's what I was told on a social network site (we won't mention which but the initials are FB).

Many of us here have a presence on that site and most of us there have two identities (TG's are either schizophrenic, bipolar or super heroes because we often have two identities). But anyway the subject was the recent court battle by the parents of a Texas firefighter who had married a transsexual. I am sure you have all read about it. And the question was brought up about the legality of marriage in that case. I stated that if she had transitioned and had legally changed her status to female, then the marriage was legal and she was thus the widow, entitled to the benefits as such.

The next post said "Hey here is the solution: don't let people change sex. What's up with that anyhow? Next some nut case will want to be changed into a cat or something..." I thought it was a sarcastic remark said to make a point. When I said such the answer was "Not sarcastic. You need to read my article about the 16 year old girl whose parents divorced, the mother married another woman and the father had a sex change...and that poor kid is supposed to call dad mom all of a sudden? What a screwed up bunch of people. The whole scene is selfish and disgusting"

Ok now I am not a happy camper and I started telling this person about how it was not a screw up, it was a mistake that can be corrected. That transgendered people make excellent parents and viable members of the community. Then the bomb dropped. This supposedly liberal educated person who has written books said "I don't believe in transgender. We are what we are. Cats don't become dogs; black people don't become white. I truly do not believe that changing gender will make anyone any happier, nor will sex with the same gender or with the opposite gender for that matter."
" I do not blame anything on someone who is transgendered, except for what s/he does to his/her family. In other words, don't change your mind along the way and take your entire family down with you. Make up your mind right away, figure it all out, and go with it. Only at this point do you create the very least damage (to your parents and siblings, not your spouse and kids as well).

and My favorite part of all is
"I do not doubt for a second that two homosexual parents can make great parents, but how do you know that the child they raise wants to be raised by homosexuals?"

It is the old stereotype I know that all trans people are gay but this person was really believing it was all about sex and not about who a person is. I was seeing red and I responded (you all know me I can't keep my mouth shut) but it kept degrading. I should have just let it go but I didn't. It went on and on about how gays and trans people have messed up today's children. About how things were so much better before we allowed gays and TG's out in public, that everything was just rosy...no abuse no neglect. How if we would just think about how the children felt over our own feelings the world would be a better place. What was really an eye opener is that this person stated that rape and abuse were genetic just like transgenderism.

It's a rant. I had to vent on this. Everyone here has heard this before and it is perpetuated over and over. But how do we reach these people? How do we convince them that being a transgender or gay or whatever isn't the cause of the world's ills?

You can educate ignorance...but you can't teach...I won't say it.

[Teri Jean]

Lori, I know a couple like this also and the fun thing is when they found out their best freind and co-worker is transexual they just about had a coronary. Girl I need to jump on the next red eye to Denver and the two of us go out and get blasted. Then stop over for a house call. LOL not really but you get the drift.

There will always be those who think the earth is flat and the sun revolves around the earth. And yes I do have multiple personalities. One is Terry (uggg) Two is Teri :-) and three is that evil bi*** that when provoked is worse than a foul cat in a burlap bag (don't open indoors).

Thanks Lori, I needed that. Hugs and kisses. Teri

[Billijo49504]

We actually had a guy who's wife decided she liked girls, instead of him. So he was going to transition. I know she was on hormones, uz she was showing some of the women her chest. And yes, she got in trouble for it....BJ

[Hope]

It's a rant. I had to vent on this. Everyone here has heard this before and it is perpetuated over and over. But how do we reach these people? How do we convince them that being a transgender or gay or whatever isn't the cause of the world's ills?


You can't reach them. Stupidity is genetic.

I have seriously become convinced that the only effective way to deal with the conservatives and other morons is to openly, viciously, and unapologetically mock them and their "ideas." Obviously reality has no effect on them, but shame is a POWERFUL motivator that we can use to our advantage. Perhaps they are irredeemable, but if we can keep them quiet, that alone would make the world a safer place.

[rachael.davis]

That's what I was told on a social network site (we won't mention which but the initials are FB).


It's a rant. I had to vent on this. Everyone here has heard this before and it is perpetuated over and over. But how do we reach these people? How do we convince them that being a transgender or gay or whatever isn't the cause of the world's ills?

You can educate ignorance...but you can't teach...I won't say it.

... As the noted philospher Ron White once observed

You just can't fix stupid

[Miranda09]

Sis, this really is like banging your head against a wall, with the only difference being that you feel better when you stop. People like this are NEVER going to agree on topics like this and will continually come up with the most ridiculous arguments to support their viewpoints. Like Rachael said...you just can't fix stupid!!!

[Pink Person]

Transgender people are transgender people. Cisgender people are cisgender people. Transgender people and cisgender people don’t change into each other. No one changes their gender in this manner, ever. Anyone can modify their appearance and some subordinate gender characteristics, but no one changes their basic gender status.

Transgender and cisgender people belong to permanent, independent, and exclusive gender categories. Most people refuse to recognize the reality and complexity of gender diversity. Transgender people get stamped with false cisgender identities at birth because of this ignorance and are vilified for rejecting the lie and being their true selves later in life.

I believe that variation in the exposure to sex hormones before and after birth is the primary cause of all gender, sex, and sexual diversity in the human population. In general, we develop our basic identities in the womb and refine them as we mature, through exposure to significantly (or insignificantly) different (qualitative and quantitative) amounts of sex hormones. The types of gender diversity that result from different whole life hormone exposure are real and natural. People who don’t respect these types of gender diversity are stupid and abusive.

We are born by circumstance, not by invention or design. Some people develop in a biological manner to be transgender. It’s not a mistake or a crime to be transgender. It’s simply a circumstantial fact, a harmless fact that doesn’t pose any threat to other people (the majority who happen to be cisgender) and consequently doesn’t threaten society either.

P.S. There’s no such thing as a knockout punch for stupidity. You have to fight it until it dies from exhaustion.

[Fab Karen]

UGH. Probably a tea-bagger. The only possible hope of educating such people ( I use the term loosely ), is one of those experiments where people are forced to live together with with the object of their bigotry.
Tangent: gay people have used this one: "I grew up with heterosexual parents & it didn't have any influence."

[pamela_a]

UGH. Probably a tea-bagger. Was that REALLY necessary? I don't want to start anything but I know many libs who have the same attitude.



The only possible hope of educating such people ( I use the term loosely ), is one of those experiments where people are forced to live together with with the object of their bigotry.
I like the thought behind that idea, but why would you want to subject that poor gay or transperson to having to live with an idiot like that?

More proof the gene pool needs more chlorine.

[Veronica_Jean]

A completely justified rant. I have no idea how to reach those that insist they know everything and everything is black and white.

What a waste of humanity.

Veronica

[Laurie Ann]

Hope and karen I am a conservative and believe in what the tea party wants to accomplish both of your comments show how bigoted you are. We are all different relating to life differently one view is not wrong because it is different. The problem with liberals is that your voice matters but let anyone disagree and the name calling begins and ron white is right you cannot fix stupid your uneducated comments proves this point.

[Stephanie-L]

UGH. Probably a tea-bagger. ."

In case you missed it in the original post, the person in question was a respected LIBERAL author. BTW, calling a person a tea-bagger is a rather crude and juvenile ad hominem attack, using a term for a homosexual act in reference to a persons political stance. If your convictions require the use of such tactics perhaps you should re-examine them, they really aren't as solid as you may think........Stephanie

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Lori, that is an amazing exchange..its very sad.

it's amazing how many people just can't look at the other side..

how about if you said to this person that maybe their children do not want to be raised by assholes.

[TerryTerri]

I believe there are those in this world who can not be reached. Something about Contempt prior to investigation! However, I have much hope for a better, more integrated future. It is in the children and their children. I think of the example of racism. Many who grew up in the early part of last century and were closed-mindedly set in their ways, never believed in racial equality. But, their children did! and in turn their children began inter-racial marriages and their children are literally on the bridge. This is a too simplified look at it. I know racism still exists. But, I hope you understand my point. I tend to believe the same thing will develop for gay, lesbian and transgendered people. I have some friends who are in their early 20's and had seemingly no problems embracing Terri instead of Terry. It was almost a non-issue to them. In fact, my older step-sons (aged 25 to 18) all have gay friends and to them it's not even an issue.
In my opinion, the generational progression of acceptance of trangenderism will end up being the real answer to our equality and social acceptance things.
My opinion anyway.

[Rianna Humble]

In case you missed it in the original post, the person in question was a respected LIBERAL author.

I must have missed that part too. I saw that the person was an author and that they were supposedly liberal-educated but there was nothing either liberal or educated in the opinions they were spouting and no sign of anything to make them respected.

[michelle2b]

" I do not blame anything on someone who is transgendered, except for what s/he does to his/her family. In other words, don't change your mind along the way and take your entire family down with you. Make up your mind right away, figure it all out, and go with it. Only at this point do you create the very least damage (to your parents and siblings, not your spouse and kids as well).


I see how the posters could have their own ideas, and all of them are right in their reality based on their limited context of the world. I also appreciate your effort in educating them, and I think that it is a hard task to educate them all.

It is similar to the way we learn and discover new things. Having worked with lots of transgender folk over a decade, I notice how they get they go from not accepting something about themselves to finally loving that characteristic about themselves. It takes time and effort and discussions and debates, but they eventually get there. In the process, they step outside their old box of thinking and into their new box, which is still a box. Our world view always remains boxed, with restrictions and constraints. Even the most liberal of liberal people still have boxes within which they think. Some people live with narrow tiny boxes around their head all their lives.

I think that the younger generation is exposed to more open-minded thinking than any previous generation. I truly hope that when the older generations complete their time on earth, the world will begin to accept transgender people a lot more than the ones who made those snarky remarks you have quoted.

However, in order for that change to happen, you and I and all of us must not loose courage or patience. If you have been a teacher, you know that teaching is never an easy job. Asking them questions that bring out their prejudices and providing examples to disprove their generalizations is one way to open their minds to new ideas.

[Fab Karen]

...and believe in what the tea party wants to accomplish both of your comments show how bigoted you are.
Being against bigotry of race, gender/gender-identity, & sexuality isn't bigotry. I am against those & other of their goals to drag this country backward in time & turn it into a totalitarian theocracy.

"BTW, calling a person a tea-bagger is a rather crude and juvenile ad hominem attack, using a term for a homosexual act in reference to a persons political stance."
It is not a "homosexual act," & I used the nick-name for "tea party" members, many of whom who have been rabid about this country having a black President.


I saw that the person was an author and that they were supposedly liberal-educated but there was nothing either liberal or educated in the opinions they were spouting and no sign of anything to make them respected.
Exactly.

[Melissa A.]

The problem with liberals is

Using one or more generalizations in response to another doesn't, as far as I can tell, make you more right(pun not intended, but not avoided, either).

Lorileah, this is just another dingbat projecting his own personal discomfort with anything foriegn to him into an arena he obviously has not taken the time to know anything about. An actual writer makes it his or her business to know something about that which they are discussing. A little knowledge, in some people's hands(or tiny brains) can indeed be a dangerous thing. Wish I could tell ya that reason had a shot at prevailing, here. Kaitlyn is right. it's sad.

Hugs,

Melissa:)

[Cheryl T]

That's what I was told on a social network site (we won't mention which but the initials are FB).


and My favorite part of all is
"I do not doubt for a second that two homosexual parents can make great parents, but how do you know that the child they raise wants to be raised by homosexuals?"




Well, that is true...how do we know that's what the child wants...maybe they would prefer to be raised by a drug addict mother and absentee father...or a father who beats and abuses them...gee, give the child a choice here...
Some people are so ignorant.
If the child is loved that's what counts, not who the parents are or what they do...there's too much hate in the world already to worry about whether they are gay, TG, straight or anything else...

[Hope]

Hope and karen I am a conservative and believe in what the tea party wants to accomplish both of your comments show how bigoted you are.

Respectfully, No.

Bigotry is a baseless judgement. My intolerance of conservatives comes after a lot of experience with them. In fact, I USED to call my self a republican. So no, that is not bigotry, it is an informed position based on YEARS of experience. Being a teabag is a choice, and it is completely acceptable to not like people who choose to hurt other people.


We are all different relating to life differently one view is not wrong because it is different.

Ok. You are right. Something is not wrong just because it is different. But that doesn't mean that just because something is different is acceptable either. If I want to drive on the wrong side of the road, that would be different... but as it endangers public health others would have every right to prevent me from doing it. As republicans and teabaggers are endangering the health of our nation, it is completely appropriate, and in fact the duty of every American, to oppose them and point out, not how different, but how wrong they are.

BTW - "teabagger" is the term Fox "news" used to describe these people when the movement started. If you have a problem with it, take it up with them - but until then - it is the "Democratic" party, not the Democrat party. I realize you are trying to be insulting, but you just sound like you don't know how to conjugate English adjectives properly. Come to think of it...

[Ze]

This thread is veering off the original topic and into unnecessary political debate; that's a big no-no on two counts. Bring it back, folks, bring it back.

[Sara Jessica]

To see examples of the rampant stupidity out there, just read the comments below any online news story where reader comments are allowed. Then to take it a step further, read those underneath any story that involves any aspect of transgenderism and it goes off the charts in proving how far we have to go before we see any broad-based acceptance out there.

[Ze]

To see examples of the rampant stupidity out there, just read the comments below any online news story where reader comments are allowed. Then to take it a step further, read those underneath any story that involves any aspect of transgenderism and it goes off the charts in proving how far we have to go before we see any broad-based acceptance out there.

That's incredibly true. I have to force myself every time to NOT look at those comments because I know they'll upset me that much every time.

[Sky]

Are we fighting the right battle here?

Most of us seem to agree that we can't eliminate prejudice. Right? Well, then, why waste our energy in trying?

This guy may be any names you want to call him but he's just a regular joe stating an opinion. I just don't care. I understand how you can get mad trying to reason with such a person but the fact is, we will most likely fail. So my suggestion is to shrug it off and say "whatever". You say there are no transgenders? Fine. Other people say there was no Nazi Holocaust. Denial is not a new thing.

Legal issues are a completely different matter. Those are the battles worth waging. Work discrimination, access to gender change, medical services related to marital status, all those things are important. What some guy says in a social network is irrelevant. And even if we could make ordinary people like him change their minds, little good would do if a single lawmaker still lives in the stone age.

[Lorileah]

Sky, that seems contrary to me. Getting new legal issues passed requires that acceptance be had. (that seems a clumsy sentence). You cannot just say "whatever" and walk away. That is tantamount to saying "you are correct, just keep thinking the way you do". Spreading ignorance and rumors does not advance any of our agendas (OMG that is going viral now because we have an agenda). In theory we have a government by the people so getting equal rights for work, marriage, being in the armed forces. As long as that one lawmaker has a voice they can drag down the whole system. But educate that lawmaker and their constituents and we can have change. This cannot be done by saying "whatever". You have to educate each individual who will hopefully pass on the knowledge to another two and so on and then equality will be a reality. By walking away, you have, in their minds, told them they have the answer and you don't have any ammunition to fight it, no matter how wrong they are.

Let's invoke another part of the WWII era here. A famous quote from a religious leader of the time


When (they) came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.

When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.

When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.

When they came for the Jews,
I remained silent;
I wasn't a Jew.

When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.

There seems to be another quote that says something like "Silence=death"

[Beth-Lock]

When I read the first part of the intial post, it put me in mind of the fact that that social networking site, seems to make no provision for anybody who is transgendered and at the point where they are not completely accepted legally as of the gender they like to think they are. I am one. I would need GRS and my health may never be up to it, while at the moment, without it I cannot consider tht I meet the criteria of that networkign site for registering my gender as F. Still, I am living as a woman. As a result, I refused to sign up for an account with that site.
I think the people running that site need some education on this matter. Now, before I sign up for anything, even an email account, I make sure they don't even ask for gender. (Google does not.) If they do, I just tell them under rmy breath to fuddle-duddle and press the cancel button.

[Fab Karen]

Then to take it a step further, read those underneath any story that involves any aspect of transgenderism and it goes off the charts in proving how far we have to go before we see any broad-based acceptance out there.
There are hate-monger groups who tell people to regularly monitor for such stories & comment to give the impression of mass support of their views. Yes such views exist, but not to the level they would like you to believe.

[Sara Jessica]

There are hate-monger groups who tell people to regularly monitor for such stories & comment to give the impression of mass support of their views. Yes such views exist, but not to the level they would like you to believe.

Very interesting, I hadn't heard that before. I always figured that those who are inclined to comment are typically more extreme in their views. Kind of matches up with what you are saying.

[Kayla Shadows]

Ive dealt with people like this before.Sometimes its sad but some people cant be changed.Ive heard the religion bit,Ive heard the "if this is ok what next" bit and everything else.It all comes down to a person who isnt transgendered,who has no idea what its like to be transgendered,who has their views from which they could never actually have a true conclusion being somebody who isnt transgendered.You just smile and say,ok,cool,glad you feel that way,and move on.Not worth my time or stress

[AmandaM]

Can we talk about cats? I want to be a cat.

[Empress Lainie]

Beth I live as a woman, am accepted as a woman and I will be ++++++ if I will ever check the box for male again. Even my ID is F except for *@*@*@*Medicare. And I am also on that site but really detest it. So what are they gonna do? sue me?:eek:

[wanagione]

My thoughts, There will always be people who don't except us no matter what. We ourselves have to come out and be the force behind our liberation and exceptance. I look at our comunity and see smart educated and sometimes powerful people who do nothing to help our advancement and exceptance. As for politics, I'm, concervative, i have alot of concertive tg friends. Being alighned with the Tea PArty has nothing to do with not liking a black president, it's very easy to call someone a racist with no proof. If you look at what the journelists in that now disbanded interent group said, That is what they did.. Its an attack that is easy to launch, so just stop it! learn to read things form all angles and perspectives before you make a judjment.

[AKAMichelle]

The fact that this person claims to be liberal is what I have found. Liberals are liberal about their issues and then close-minded about other issues. Conservatives can be the most focused about fiscal issues but sometimes be your best friends about being TG. Gays don't always support us either. The labels work only so far and then we get to see the real person.

This person you talked about is close-minded about a lot of issues and TG is one of them. They will never change their mind and for that reason we will have to live with their bigotry. As many have said before us, the only way to change people's minds are to start with the young. The battle is not for the older ones which can only be fought one person at a time, but with the young while they still act as a collective group. Even today they are the most accepting of us and many younger TG's are able to express themselves earlier allowing them to avoid much of the pain which we (the older ones) have experienced.

[Lorileah]

This person in particular was concerned more about the "children" associated with the transperson. Like the statement that the teenager would now have to call her father "mom" instead of dad. That would of course be something that would have to be worked out by the family, but teens get over stuff really fast when new crises come along like nail color or boyfriend problems. The other point this person made was that there would be no "male" role model in the childrens' life. This I found totally absurd as in at least 50% of current marriages end in divorce and are single parent households. Every teen has "trauma" in their life. It is part of being a teenager. This person was concerned that the children would be damaged forever. I think kids now are a lot more open mined and would be more accepting after the initial tantrum :)

[Miranda09]

This person in particular was concerned more about the "children" associated with the transperson. Like the statement that the teenager would now have to call her father "mom" instead of dad. That would of course be something that would have to be worked out by the family, but teens get over stuff really fast when new crises come along like nail color or boyfriend problems. The other point this person made was that there would be no "male" role model in the childrens' life. This I found totally absurd as in at least 50% of current marriages end in divorce and are single parent households. Every teen has "trauma" in their life. It is part of being a teenager. This person was concerned that the children would be damaged forever. I think kids now are a lot more open mined and would be more accepting after the initial tantrum :)

I agree Lorileah. My parents divorced when I was only 12 and I never had a father figure to grow up with. Didn't warp me any (Ok, well maybe a little bit!!!!) ;). As long as the children have loving and caring parents, it doesn't really matter what they're called or what they wear.

[Ze]

I agree Lorileah. My parents divorced when I was only 12 and I never had a father figure to grow up with. Didn't warp me any (Ok, well maybe a little bit!!!!) ;).

And I've had divorced parents since way younger, didn't really have a father figure either, and I still ended up FtM. :heehee:

[Philipa Jane]

Lori.
The fundamental rule here is.
Never argue with an Idiot.
They have had so much more practice at it than you.
PJ

[Myojine]

and My favorite part of all is
"I do not doubt for a second that two homosexual parents can make great parents, but how do you know that the child they raise wants to be raised by homosexuals?"
there was a story on CNN about a study about kids in lesbien homes. it was stated that children are could be better off in a lesbian home then in a hetero sexual home. saw this when i was in the psychward a few months ago, i had an epic victory YESSSSSSS!!
http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1994480,00.html
Time magazine tells the story

[ChloesWife]

"...black people don't become white..."

Hmm, try telling that to Michael Jackson, and his son who has apparently inherited the genetic "mutation" that started making his skin turn white...

But seriously, I'm going to stand back and stay out of this. You're all a lot more educated on these issues than I am :) My basic viewpoint on pretty much everything is "Can't we just all get along and love each other?" ;)

[Myojine]

Hmm, try telling that to Michael Jackson, and his son who has apparently inherited the genetic "mutation" that started making his skin turn white...

But seriously, I'm going to stand back and stay out of this. You're all a lot more educated on these issues than I am :) My basic viewpoint on pretty much everything is "Can't we just all get along and love each other?" ;)

no because human kind cant agree with each other.
for the same reason someone tells me im wrong that i dont believe in god, is the same reason people wont agree with each other, its called opinions, and some people are willing to back them up with their lives.

[Niya W]

Some folks refuse to live in reality . I of have relative thank thinks by listening Rush he will turn white. He also claims to have gone to law school despite the fact the law school named does not exist, he can't write a decent sentence and can not debate . But when it comes to folks spreading hate all yo can do is what them as they seem to wear their ignorance as a badge of honor.

Some one here posted a video from you tube were a lady stated that rainbows are a government conspiracy and do not occur naturally. Despite all of the science out there she refuse to believe. Thats how folks who hate behave. No matter what the facts say they refuse to believe . Its almost impossible to change a belief system.

[Allyson Michelle]

Yea, I hear lots of ppl saying that its an excuse for gays and lesbians to be considered straight. Then how do you explain the thousands of transfolk, like me, that are attracted to the gender opposite that of their biological sex. I'm still strongly attracted to women, but there are a few guys that i find attractive. perhaps those feelings will change once i transition, but my excuse for transitioning is not because i want to be considered straight. Technically, I'm already straight!

[Myojine]

Yea, I hear lots of ppl saying that its an excuse for gays and lesbians to be considered straight. Then how do you explain the thousands of transfolk, like me, that are attracted to the gender opposite that of their biological sex. I'm still strongly attracted to women, but there are a few guys that i find attractive. perhaps those feelings will change once i transition, but my excuse for transitioning is not because i want to be considered straight. Technically, I'm already straight!

I feel the same way, i was confused for a while forcing myself to like one gender or the other till i had to have a wake up call and soul search.
im not attracted to males what so ever except for a few sneaking sexual desires(all where im female)i have no desire what so ever to be a male in any relationship. i offten use the term "translesbian" to describe my standpoint.
no offence guys
but men suck

[Ze]

Glad to know we're regarded so well here. :rolleyes: Yet one of the many times we're put down.