Telling the SO, Bad Reaction, Giving up CD'ing [Archive] - Crossdressers.com - #1 Community & Forum for Crossdressers, Family and Friends

Georgi

07-29-2010, 03:00 PM

I want to share some of my experience with my telling my wife about my crossdressing. In short it has not gone well, and right now my marriage is in doubt because of it. I've told her she is more important to me than the cd'ing, and she's taken me at my word. So the clothes are all gone, I've promised to renounce crossdressing, and I've even started therapy sessions to reinforce my quitting.

Quick recap: On July 5 I craft a nice 4 page letter telling my story, expressing my love, how important she is, how I'm not gay, I don't want to become a woman, etc, etc. The first thing she does after reading one page is run to the bathroom to throw up. While she finishes reading it all she can say is "No, no, no, no, ..." I haven't been able to touch her since, we haven't had sex since, and she's pretty much said we won't until she gets things worked out. I've tried to get her to talk to someone several times but she doesn't think she should have to do anything.

Almost a month later and I'm depressed, she won't hardly talk to me, and although she hasn't gone to any lawyers there is no sign of any move to try to make it better. I guess at least the part about not going to lawyers at this point is a good sign. The ironic thing is, one of her lines while she was reading ithe letter after I had said something about being truthful above all else was, "Sometimes a lie is better than the truth."

So, here I am at a crossroad having told the truth and having wrecked what used to be a wonderful marriage. As they say, no good deed goes unpunished...

More as the story unfolds,
Georgi

sandra-leigh

07-29-2010, 03:02 PM

Ouch!

Kristitx555

07-29-2010, 03:09 PM

I will pray for you both!

Billijo49504

07-29-2010, 03:11 PM

Ooooh!! That's not good. You might want to see your doctor, to get some help for your depression. Don't let it get the best of you. Good luck..BJ

JenniferB

07-29-2010, 03:27 PM

Almost a month later and I'm depressed, she won't hardly talk to me, and although she hasn't gone to any lawyers there is no sign of any move to try to make it better.
It sounds a little bit like you're trying to shift responsibility here. Some women will never "come around" to understanding a CD husband. Her viewpoint is probably she married a man - not a woman - and not even a man who sometimes dresses like a woman. And, she is 100% justified in feeling that way.
If you have truly given up CDing and want to mend the fence, that's one thing. If you're waiting for her to show some sign of acceptance, that may never happen.

Georgi

07-29-2010, 03:35 PM

If you have truly given up CDing and want to mend the fence, that's one thing. If you're waiting for her to show some sign of acceptance, that may never happen.

Oh I don't disagree a bit with you about her acceptance. She will likely never accept my being a crossdresser and that's fine. What I'm hoping for is that someday (soon, hoepfully) she will be able to accept that I once was a crossdresser. If not, then this whole act of truthfulness was one total royal f*%kup on my part.

Thx,
Georgi

Joanne f

07-29-2010, 03:38 PM

I am sorry to hear of your situation at the moment and do not think there is much i could say that would be helpful at the moment getting your wife to understand anything about it is going to be quite hard at the moment as she needs time to adjust lets just hope it is in the right way for you both .

patti.jean

07-29-2010, 03:47 PM

Georgi,

That is so sad; you must be in such pain. It appears you have been marred awhile which makes this more difficult for everyone. Part of me wants to offer some advice to fix this, and then the female side of me only wants to cry. You obviously love your wife very much, which was at least part of your motivation to be honest with her. Yet, your wife is treating this as you broke the trust between you and become something she deplores.

I understand your desire to stop dressing to save your marriage and I am sure you have tired to stop many times and know how difficult it is. I was told by a therapist once we can not stop being a CD but we might be able to stop dressing. A Few years ago through therapy and meditation everyday I was able to find contentment without dressing that lasted about 18 months. But I was never able to not be CD and eventually started dressing again.

The only thing you have to offer your wife right now is time however painful that is for both of you. I like to be optimistic and think you two will find a way to work this out. I like to believe your wife will see what you are doing as an act of love but in your note you also I sense you understand the reality of this happing.

Thanks for reaching out, even though we can only give you words and our thoughts.

Hugs,
Patti

Miss Misery

07-29-2010, 03:56 PM

She will likely never accept my being a crossdresser and that's fine. .

Giorgi - I am sorry to see how this worked out for you. That is why I want others on here to be very careful in evaluating the ramifications of coming out to an SO.

What I'm hoping for is that someday (soon, hoepfully) she will be able to accept that I once was a crossdresser

This is where she needs to find some compassion. You have made a significant committment to change and yet she still might not be able to let it go. That's what's really sad. Best of luck, my friend. I hope things can work out for you.

DemonicDaughter

07-29-2010, 04:17 PM

Oh I don't disagree a bit with you about her acceptance. She will likely never accept my being a crossdresser and that's fine. What I'm hoping for is that someday (soon, hoepfully) she will be able to accept that I once was a crossdresser. If not, then this whole act of truthfulness was one total royal f*%kup on my part.

Thx,
Georgi

You've been married to her for this whole time, kept this part of yourself hidden so well that she never even knew it existed and then you want her to instantly accept you're no longer doing it?! :eek:

Not only does she probably feel like she doesn't know you at all, she probably feels stupid for never seeing it! There's a good chance she feels completely duped in this how thing and that if you can keep something like cding a secret, who knows what else there is.

Listen, I know its can't be easy but posting things like "not good deed goes unpunished" isn't necessary. A good deed would have been to say something from the start. But you no longer have that option. So give it some time. A month is hardly enough time to accept all this. You've had your whole life, and you've given her 30 days!

I wish you the best of luck with everything and I'm truly sorry you're hurting but so is she.

Giorgi - I am sorry to see how this worked out for you. That is why I want others on here to be very careful in evaluating the ramifications of coming out to an SO.

This is where she needs to find some compassion. You have made a significant committment to change and yet she still might not be able to let it go. That's what's really sad. Best of luck, my friend. I hope things can work out for you.

Its not a matter of compassion or if it is, it should be the other way around. She just spent her marriage believing she knew her husband so well. She thought she knew their life, their roles, their future. Now she's had that blown to bits in a matter of a few paragraphs on paper. She is no doubt feeling as if she's going insane and that she somehow married someone she actually never knew. That's not an easy task.

How would you feel if you were married for a few years and found out your wife was a stripper the entire time? How easy would that be? Would you assume there's nothing sexual about it? Would you feel lied to and deceived? Would you feel she shared a part of herself with a whole other group of people you never knew and not with you?

Its the deceit far more than it just being the clothing, though I have no doubt that plays a huge factor.

Miss Misery

07-29-2010, 05:07 PM

She just spent her marriage believing she knew her husband so well. She thought she knew their life, their roles, their future. Now she's had that blown to bits in a matter of a few paragraphs on paper. She is no doubt feeling as if she's going insane and that she somehow married someone she actually never knew.

We don't know that any of this is what she believes or feels but can only assume from her reaction that this is true.

Its not a matter of compassion or if it is, it should be the other way around.

No, I have to disagree here. Giorgi has done what he can, albeit not as soon as some here think is appropriate, BUT he did put it out there AND is going to stop or trying to. Now the ball is in her court so to speak. She can show some compassion for his struggle regardless of whether she decides whether or not she can stay married to him. I think her behavior has more to do with the repulsion at the thought of men dressing as women more than the deceit.

In fact, I think this point about the deceit being the issue is sort of a "red herring" - Sure no one wants to feel deceived by their spouse but isn't it also about the nature of the deception that causes the hurt.

Example- If a husband said he was working late every Monday night but was actually going down to the pub with the boys to watch Monday Night Football, that's deceiving but I doubt it would receive the same response that the same scenario would if that husband admitted that he'd been dressing up as a woman on those Monday nights. What's the difference? I guess you could say the CD thing is a "double deception" - what he was doing on Monday nights AND being a CD.

My point is it seems disingenuous to put all the SO's hurt on the act of deception itself - it does have to do with the nature of the deception - in this case being a CD. Not the same thing as being a closet trumpet player.:)

How would you feel if you were married for a few years and found out your wife was a stripper the entire time? How easy would that be? Would you assume there's nothing sexual about it? Would you feel lied to and deceived? Would you feel she shared a part of herself with a whole other group of people you never knew and not with you?

A stripper is being compared to a CD? One is totally based on performance for others enjoyment while the other can be done without involving anyone else. What if you found out she liked to wear men's clothing? Not so dramatic. How is a CDer automatically sharing with a whole group of people his spouse never knew? - a stripper, sure.

Whew - I'm getting worn out. But my last comment is, as individuals we can choose to accept others with their human bagage or not. We make foolish mistakes and try to make amends when possible but acceptance ultimately lies in the heart of the individual. All any of us can do is wish Giorgi luck.

Virgin_CD

07-29-2010, 05:18 PM

tell her you will listen to the counselors advice and are open to compromise if she is (sounds like yu have nothing to lose at this point). they are often like lawyers and judges, making the goal mid point...anybody not willing to compromise is the bad guy. And some fine points, should anything legal ensue later:
1. Make the suggestion to her in another "love letter", keep a copy so it can be used as evidence that you were trying to work the issues (and open to compromise (even if you are reserved in that respect))
2. The counsellor may be your best ally in court someday.
I sincerely hope it doesn't come to that, but you'd be better off loaded for bear and not need it, plus it may desuade her from seeking legal counsel later (Divorce can be a little like Global Thermal Nuclear War...and mutual anyahlation can be a legitimate deterrent).
When I presented it to my wife, I put it in a light that "I nearly totally suppressed this for the first 15 years of marriage and if the counsellor says I am damaged goods, I'll continue with the counsellor to FIX ME", ...and this is the most important part: "Because our love is to important... etc..."
That will put a bandaid on the immediate danger
I seriously doubt any counsellor (with experience) labelling YOU as Broken... although they may reccomend You compromise, to patronize her and get HER to meet half way. I mean, wouldn't that be wonderful... it's half of the battle. If she gets to a healthy place, the rest is just time and you lovin the girl real good for some years after the initial shock. Tell her this deep dark secret makes you both much closer... think of the trust required and the big chance you took, etc... And keep echoing "Our love and communication comes FIRST. PS: You don't have to agree and believe in all this stuff... never forget, Marriage and relationships are the biggest negotiation in life. Engage the marriage and family counsellors BEFORE the Attorney/ Legal Counsellors enter the stage. With Love and Respect, Virginia.

Catherine in Colo

07-29-2010, 05:20 PM

Georgi, first, I am SO very sorry for what you are going through. I can only imagine the hurt that both of you are feeling right now, and I truly hope you're able to find a way through this.

Second, please, please consider asking your wife to see a counselor with you. You're both going through something very intense, and this is going to impact you emotionally for a long time to come. Unless you're able to communicate extremely well on this topic by yourself, you need someone who can help lead the conversations that need to happen.

From what I can gather from your comments, it sounds like both of you are trying to enter some sort of denial. You, that you're not a crossdresser anymore, and for your wife, that you never shared this information with her in the first place. Pushing this under the rug will not help either of you, or your marriage. You need to work through the emotions that you're both feeling with someone equipped to help you with the tools you'll need, preferably someone experienced with gender issues. Otherwise, I would fear that you'll both end up feeling a lot of resentment. You, that "she made" you give up crossdressing (if only b/c of her response), and her that you had not shared this with her sooner.

Of course only you can know what is right for you and your wife, but I hope you'll consider this among your options.

Best of luck,
Cat

mklinden2010

07-29-2010, 05:37 PM

This will probably get deleted. But, take it as general observation about this kind of thing in general. He has already played his cards and it really doesn't matter much what any of us says to HIM now.

OK, first, why are you sharing this with us - and promising updates - if CDing is behind you and you're saving your marriage? Is this part of some ebook you're working on?

Second, I'd like to see this "nice" four page letter. Nice? I HATE the "letter" gambit. Gutless, thoughtless, and, clueless. Say it don't play it. Think how long someone will be going down that page to hell. And, get a clue what she expects - NOT a letter! How about some conversation... You know, the one you've been skipping since she met you?

I'd divorce you. There would be no way around it. Why stay with a bonehead?

This is no crossroad. The is a sign in the road.

And, this is no good deed, it's just a deed.

Boo!

What else is on?

DemonicDaughter

07-29-2010, 05:40 PM

We don't know that any of this is what she believes or feels but can only assume from her reaction that this is true.

It might be an assumption but it is a highly logical one. There would be few other ranges of emotions for her to feel if the OP's description of her reaction is true. And being its an extremely common reaction expressed on here by many GGs its not to much of an assumption.

No, I have to disagree here. Giorgi has done what he can, albeit not as soon as some here think is appropriate, BUT he did put it out there AND is going to stop or trying to. Now the ball is in her court so to speak. She can show some compassion for his struggle regardless of whether she decides whether or not she can stay married to him.

I meant that Giorgi needs to give his wife more time than simply a month to come to grips with things. Compassion should be both ways but making it sound like his wife has none for him is also just as harsh. She might have compassion for his struggle but so must he show some for hers as well.

I think her behavior has more to do with the repulsion at the thought of men dressing as women more than the deceit.

I believe that's a bigger assumption than I was making!

In fact, I think this point about the deceit being the issue is sort of a "red herring" - Sure no one wants to feel deceived by their spouse but isn't it also about the nature of the deception that causes the hurt.

Does that play a factor that he's a CDer? Of course. But is the lies and deceit a "red herring"? You'll be hard pressed to find a GG on this site who has gone through something similar who would agree with that. Many GGs on here express how they might have had a much easier time accepting the CDing had they not felt they had been lied to for so long.

Example- If a husband said he was working late every Monday night but was actually going down to the pub with the boys to watch Monday Night Football, that's deceiving but I doubt it would receive the same response that the same scenario would if that husband admitted that he'd been dressing up as a woman on those Monday nights. What's the difference? I guess you could say the CD thing is a "double deception" - what he was doing on Monday nights AND being a CD.

Actually, I think it would elicit the same response, but here's why... claiming your working late but really going to a pub can easily be interpreted as you going there to meet up with someone for extra marital activities and CDing often implies that to a GG who doesn't know anything about CDing. Its an assumption on many GGs' part that CDing is primarily sexual.

My point is it seems disingenuous to put all the SO's hurt on the act of deception itself - it does have to do with the nature of the deception - in this case being a CD. Not the same thing as being a closet trumpet player.:)

I think its incorrect to assume it would be only CDing that would elicit the reaction. It could be anything that makes a partner feel that there is something sexual going on or an implication that the marriage isn't "enough".

A stripper is being compared to a CD? One is totally based on performance for others enjoyment while the other can be done without involving anyone else. What if you found out she liked to wear men's clothing? Not so dramatic. How is a CDer automatically sharing with a whole group of people his spouse never knew? - a stripper, sure.

Actually, stripping can be done in private as well but that's neither here or there. And I've tried the men's clothing argument and all I ever get met with is the "I'd love it if my wife did that! I'd get to be the woman!" So I don't bother with that one anymore. I don't think comparing it to a stripper is dramatic either being most of the strippers I know don't go home with any of the customers, aren't into men most of the time and are doing it to feel attractive and/or make money.

And even being here on forums is sharing CDing with people outside the marriage. Being its not uncommon for many CDers now a days to be on forums like this, its not a stretch of the imagination to make such a statement. Especially since the OP stated he was giving it up to his wife and yet is on here sharing the experience (this is in no way saying he shouldn't, just making an example).

Whew - I'm getting worn out. But my last comment is, as individuals we can choose to accept others with their human bagage or not. We make foolish mistakes and try to make amends when possible but acceptance ultimately lies in the heart of the individual. All any of us can do is wish Giorgi luck.

Don't get worn out! These debates are great for other's to learn from! :D I think its thought provoking answers that make the best threads. But I digress a bit...

I agree with your last statement. :)

ErikkaHrungnir

07-29-2010, 05:48 PM

I don't mean to sound insensitive, just realistic. From what you have posted and what it sounds like, you haven't been playing the devils advocate here and looked at your other option... Have you considered leaving her? If this is truly a core part of who you are and what you do then she should be accepting. Beyond the fact that you should have been honest with her MUCH sooner in the relationship and definitely told her before you two were ever even considering marriage, the tough fact is, if she doesn't support you in living an alternative lifestyle and you are committed to that lifestyle, then perhaps you should find someone who is. I know there is a lot of history and love in a marriage, however it has been said a thousand times about coming out to friends "If you come out to a friend and they reject you, were they really your friend?" The same thing applies here, if she can't accept you, isn't willing to even talk about the possibility of working something out, then perhaps you should seek your happiness elsewhere. Why should you or ANYONE have to sacrifice who they are as a person to make someone else happy?

Ms. Emily

07-29-2010, 05:49 PM

I'd divorce you. There would be no way around it. Why stay with a bonehead?

This is no crossroad. The is a sign in the road.

And, this is no good deed, it's just a deed.

Boo!

What else is on?

I hope they don't delete your comment cause thats the kind of wake up call he needs. I've felt this way exactly about all the married cd's who kept it from their wives. It is way too big of a secret to hide from a wife. You all know they deserve better then that.

Letters are how my family likes to deal with big problems and I absolutely hate it. It makes me feel like I'm not worth you saying it to my face how you really feel about something. I can't even imagine using one to tell your wife something like this. That just feels like it's a real slap in the face to the woman.

shannonFL

07-29-2010, 05:52 PM

Georgi, other than untimely death, or grave illness, this will be the greatest emotional earthquake you will experience...and you probably never realized that just following a personal footpath could cause someone you love so much anguish. I have no advice to offer, only empathy from one of many of us who may have in some way been through something not too different..

Inna

07-29-2010, 06:36 PM

Hi babe, I can sympathize with your dilemma. I have lost my wife partially to my being TG even without her knowing. But that fact doesn't help you, what is though genuine is the fact you have spoken the truth. Never ever under any circumstance regret truth. You are extremely strong individual committing your self to this act, if that isn't enough to earn respect and devotion, nothing will. I can not judge nor would I do so, our perspective on life and needs are so foreign to people who never given any thought to this subject. From my experience trying to make life dissipate our truth and live under regime of "gone from my life forever" theme, does not work. It is within us, as much as our heart beat, color of eyes, our needs and wants. You can quit drinking but you never quit the feeling you know, and pleasure once felt. Ask your self, did the truth you spoke brake the bond of love or has it lifted dark cloud from your soul. I am a great believer of things to come as they may, I also understand now the power of truth, events unfolding in front of your eyes may seem brutal and painful as they are, but the truth you spoke came from your soul and new wave of life is coming and you will yet rejoice in your decision however grave it seems now.

All I can offer to you is my love, the only commodity I posses.

Samantha B L

07-29-2010, 07:20 PM

Hi There Georgi, You have my sympathy in this whole mess but maybe you should have told her from the start. Honey,I'm really sorry too about you getting dragged through all these renunciations and throwing your clothes away,etc.and visa versa. I do think your handling yourself calmly and without any kind of temper flareup at your wife. There is that to be said. Well now,I hope that sooner or later you'll be able to dress again and I hope that whatever happens things will get smoothed over with your wife. Really sorry.

:hugs: :love:

Samantha

Miley

07-29-2010, 07:53 PM

I am sorry to hear about this difficult time you are going through. Don't lose hope, there is always light at the end of the tunnel, even if its not what you expect it to be. Its a good thing you were honest, whats a true marrage without it. I can undertand your wife finding it hard to except, and if she is a person who has been sheltered from lifes difficulties then she will find it harder to work through. But at the same time, true love covers a multitude of sins, it suffers long, it always forgives, it never fails. This is not just a challenge for you but also for her. This maybe what makes you both stronger and closer. One thing I have learnt is that we all full short, we all have our problems, we have to have grace for each other. I believe you have done and are doing the right thing, you have come humbled and broken to your wife, she needs her time but she also needs to respond with love, she would want the same from you because she also has her own faults. You sound to me to be a loving husband, what more can she ask for.

Miss Misery

07-29-2010, 08:02 PM

It might be an assumption but it is a highly logical one. There would be few other ranges of emotions for her to feel if the OP's description of her reaction is true. And being its an extremely common reaction expressed on here by many GGs its not to much of an assumption.

I'm not trying to downplay the significance of having GG's comment here at all BUT, and I guess I'm making some assumptions here as well, most of them are making a go of it with their CDer. It seems less likely that many GG's that totally reject a CDer would be commenting on here. Maybe a couple but it seems like it could be a biased sampling (not intentionally biased). Perhaps those GG's can't stand the idea of a man inwomen's clothing. Heck, Giorgi's spouse threw up! That doesn't sound like a physical reaction to a liar but what she probably perceives as a disgusting perversion.

I meant that Giorgi needs to give his wife more time than simply a month to come to grips with things.

I agree.

I believe that's a bigger assumption than I was making!

See above comment on vomit! Indicates to me more than a problem w/ deceit.

Does that play a factor that he's a CDer? Of course. But is the lies and deceit a "red herring"? You'll be hard pressed to find a GG on this site who has gone through something similar who would agree with that. Many GGs on here express how they might have had a much easier time accepting the CDing had they not felt they had been lied to for so long.

So they can't even admit that it would be easier if there was no lying? That's one reason I think it's bigger than deceit alone (I know you did admit that).

Actually, I think it would elicit the same response, but here's why... claiming your working late but really going to a pub can easily be interpreted as you going there to meet up with someone for extra marital activities and CDing often implies that to a GG who doesn't know anything about CDing. Its an assumption on many GGs' part that CDing is primarily sexual.

I'm confused here. If you didn't tell your wife that you were going to watch MNF at a pub why, when you did tell her (she didn't find out) would she assume you were having an affair? Now on the CD side, I can completely understand the confusion/assumption to someone who doesn't know.

I think its incorrect to assume it would be only CDing that would elicit the reaction. It could be anything that makes a partner feel that there is something sexual going on or an implication that the marriage isn't "enough".

Like even self-gratification? (oops I guess CD is that initself) - I meant, more explicitly masturbation.

Actually, stripping can be done in private as well but that's neither here or there. And I've tried the men's clothing argument and all I ever get met with is the "I'd love it if my wife did that! I'd get to be the woman!" So I don't bother with that one anymore. I don't think comparing it to a stripper is dramatic either being most of the strippers I know don't go home with any of the customers, aren't into men most of the time and are doing it to feel attractive and/or make money.

The men's clothing argument does fit though because it demonstrates that the societal taboo against CDing only works in one direction AND that makes an SO uncomfortable/sick whatever in response to the behavior. That doesn't happen (or rarely would) in the case of a woman wearing mens clothes in secret because the taboo isn't there so we're not so shocked. Stripping could go either way as well - what if he was a stripper or drag performer or whatever? Not the same as a CD.

And even being here on forums is sharing CDing with people outside the marriage. Being its not uncommon for many CDers now a days to be on forums like this, its not a stretch of the imagination to make such a statement. Especially since the OP stated he was giving it up to his wife and yet is on here sharing the experience (this is in no way saying he shouldn't, just making an example).

So, where does one go with this issue for moral support? Not to his SO - she's not ready to talk about it. Isolation is a good way to end up with a suicide. I think sharing/asking on here IS therapeutic (or can be). If posting on here is considered some sort of deviant behavior then I think I need to get off. Also, look at how many people (members and guests) are on here - incredible. This no porn site/peep show. People are trying to get stuff figured out. I'm sure Giorgi needed to "vent" or open up to someone. Why not here - I thought this was THE SAFE PLACE.

Don't get worn out! These debates are great for other's to learn from! :D I think its thought provoking answers that make the best threads. But I digress a bit...

I agree that these discussions/debates are good and thank you for being so candid. Make sure to know that I am not berating your arguments - just challenging them with my "correct" ones :eek: I'm worn out cause I type with sausage fingers and a meatloaf brain!

In posting on this thread (and listening) I think I've grown some in my understanding. Thanks demonicdaughter.

Pythos

07-29-2010, 08:37 PM

Tanya83

07-29-2010, 08:47 PM

I recently heard something that has kinda stuck with me.
"Sometimes when you tell the truth, everything else is a lie"

My marriage dissolved because of the escalation of the dressing (Among other things)

I don't think you can give it up and she knows this. That's what makes it so hard for her.

I've purged more times than I can remember and it only enhanced the desire. There wasn't a womens clothing catalog in the house that I didn't know exactly what was on every page and what I wish I could have.

Now here I am. Single and really buying too much clothes and shoes and things. And you know what, I'm loving every minute.

I couldn't give it up. Don't think anything could change that. Unless it became adverse to my health or something.

You guys need to compromise. Not saying that will happen. It didn't for me. Just try is all you can do.

MsJanessa

07-29-2010, 08:50 PM

I've got to agree with Pythos----stop treating it like a disease and like it is evil---it is not and while it might have been a bad thing not to disclose it to your wife early in your relationship with her, what's done is done and you cannot undo it. As for "giving up" crossdressing, if I had a dollar for every cross dresser who said they were giving it up, only to start again later, I would be a very rich Lady---I agree that therapy is a good idea---not to help you stop it but to help you accept it and accept yourself--it may be that your wife will never accept your cding and that this means the end of the marraige---for your sake if that is the case, then I hope you can end it with a minumum of pain--but it seems from the tone of your posts that you will make yourself miserable to make your wife happy---what is really happening is that you both seem to be miserable. There is only one person that you can "make" happy and that person is you. Good luck

JenniferB

07-29-2010, 08:53 PM

YOU ARE DOING NOTHING WRONG.

I'm pretty sure the OP's wife doesn't share this opinion.

juno

07-29-2010, 09:05 PM

It is important to be out of the closet, for those of us who can. Then, people will realize that crossdressing is not all that uncommon, and hopefully be less of a shock for people finding out about a loved ones CDing.

With all of the violence and hate in the world, it is just sad that something as simple as a desire to dress a certain way can be taken so badly.

Juno

silhouette

07-29-2010, 09:07 PM

I've tried to get her to talk to someone several times but she doesn't think she should have to do anything.

What a remarkably immature attitude!
I stand in awe.

Kimba

07-29-2010, 09:35 PM

Georgie
Got no answers for you (I think that I'm MtF TG??? Who really knows?)
Gosh, been there and separated for 5yrs next week....

It is/was the 'gorilla in the living room'....
.
I came out to my family and a friend less than a yr ago.
.
Been with my 'near'-ex a couple of times since. (not acknowledging my lack of (shorts/tshirt) /removed body hair.
.
That does seem to be the (at least My) problem.... I think like a male & am physically driven like a male, but I've always felt akin conversationally and emotionally to the women (girls) i've know and apparently most of them react as our society mandates them to (taken me almost 50 yrs to Start to Be ME!).

Take a break... Pressuring her won't change her attitude (probably)...

Take a break for yourself... Don't punish/deny/ignore your own feelings either. For what it's worth, I did for over 20 yrs, with occational 'bouts of crossdressing', and her finding the bra/panties literally a couple of times... Didn't make a difference here......
In retrospect, I wasn't honest with my own feelings... and
There Is NO ONE out there that than Hurt You more than YOURSELF...

Let me know what you think.

(neo) kimba

Rachel Morley

07-29-2010, 10:28 PM

The first thing she does after reading one page is run to the bathroom to throw up. While she finishes reading it all she can say is "No, no, no,
Anyone who quite literally, physically vomits obviously must have been suffering from severe shock.

I think her behavior has more to do with the repulsion at the thought of men dressing as women more than the deceit.
That was my immediate thought too. Such shock and repulsion upon reading it that she literary vomits at the very thought of it.

In fact, I think this point about the deceit being the issue is sort of a "red herring" - Sure no one wants to feel deceived by their spouse but isn't it also about the nature of the deception that causes the hurt.Well ... I for sure don't think it's a "red herring" as she is obviously going to feel shocked, betrayed and very hurt about the deceit, and it happening for such a long time ... BUT ... I do agree with you that for some people the CDing itself is even worse than the lying. Is this woman one of those people? We don't know. IMHO the shocking revelation that her husband is a secret transvestite/crossdresser and/or is possibly gay or God only knows what incorrect things she might have been thinking about CDing when she read that bit, could be more likely to make a person who has had a bad experience with it in the past, or has a bad opinion about it or just hates guys (her guy) that do that sort of thing. :2c:

Oh my gosh Georgi, I don't know what to say to you. :sad: This level of repulsion (be it because of the CDing or the lying) is something that I have only ever heard about and can only imagine how bad it must be for you. :sad:

Georgi

07-29-2010, 11:22 PM

OK, first, why are you sharing this with us - and promising updates - if CDing is behind you and you're saving your marriage? Is this part of some ebook you're working on?

I thought I'd share this with those who were considering telling their SOs because one of the major reasons I finally caved in and told her was the constant counseling of the 'tell her, tell her' crowd on this forum. I thought it appropriate to hear an opposing viewpoint.

Second, I'd like to see this "nice" four page letter. Nice? I HATE the "letter" gambit. Gutless, thoughtless, and, clueless. Say it don't play it. Think how long someone will be going down that page to hell. And, get a clue what she expects - NOT a letter! How about some conversation... You know, the one you've been skipping since she met you?

I think you misunderstand how I presented the letter to her. I took several weeks to compose this letter, then on the morning of July 5th sat next to her as I handed it to her to read so I was there for her to ask questions. I didn't mail her the letter or leave the letter for her to read in my absence. And by the way, the famed how to tell your SO thread proposes just this method of writing it out rather than trying to memorize your spiel and blurt it out from memory.

Thx,
Georgi

melissacd

07-29-2010, 11:26 PM

Georgi,

Although my ex did not vomit, for all intents and purposes her reaction was very much the same. After 10 years of trying to sort things out we realized that I could not stop CDing anymore than she could stop being repulsed by the fact that I was a CD and in her mind less than a man. We agreed to disagree and even though I loved her deeply, I knew it was best to move on for both our sakes.

Understandably your wife had a very strong reaction to this and she needs time, however, in the end you need to acknowledge that it is a part of who you are (whether you ever dress again) and she needs to understand that truth as well. Counselling is very important, something that you need to go to together to work through this.

In as much as you want to back away from who you are to keep her in your life that is a fool's dream. She will never believe that it is gone and you will always wish that you had it in your life and eventually resent her for forcing you not to be able to be yourself with the one person in this world who should be able to embrace all of who you are.

You both need to face the fact that this is who you are. How you choose to live your life with each other or apart has yet to be seen, but if you cannot work through this simple fact together then you are in for a whole heap of trouble.

You are who you are and no one should expect that you be other than that. Of course there is a trust broken here and she has to re-evaluate how she feels about you, but to pretend that your CDing is in the past is a big mistake that I feel you will regret.

Accept who you are, be brave enough to stand by that truth and work through it with her. You will either figure it out together and both be better and stronger for it or you will realize that you can no longer be together and both be better for it. Avoiding the truth will fix nothing.

All the best to you and your wife in your journey.

Melissa

Georgi

07-29-2010, 11:34 PM

What a remarkably immature attitude!
I stand in awe.

Ok, seriously - do you think when I say "Honey, would you go to talk to the counselor I've been seeing?" I'm displaying an immature attitude? Am I missing something here?

Georgi

Lucy_Bella

07-29-2010, 11:55 PM

No your not missing anything...Some folks are happy all the time and some are just plain bitter...Sorry for the mis happs, Ok things work out for you..

Georgi

07-29-2010, 11:56 PM

Thanks to many for their comments on many aspects of this. I'll ramble a bit as I try to gather some of my thoughts in one place.

I know there is a high risk of failure in the long run in quitting crossdressing. But I also know that the pleasures I would get from cd'ing were transitory for me, were not part of an overall TG lifestyle and therefore in my personal prioritization can be pushed way down the scale way below my wife's worth to me. That is, of course, on a rational level and does not account for the dreaded pink fog, if it takes over then rationality of course slides away.

I also agree that my wife is bent out of shape over the revulsion, and not the deceit. She's hardly mentioned the deceit at all in the last month, but the revulsion is the big topic when anything at all is mentioned.

I agree with the several posters who say I've done nothing wrong, that this is not a disease. But at this point, standing up for a principle will certainly cost me my marriage while compromising by discarding my fetish (and it is a fetish, not a lifestyle) at least gives me a chance to save it.

Joint counseling is indeed my goal. I've promised to see a counselor to help me maintain my giving up of cd'ing. My hope is that I can convince my wife that she can benefit from going to see the counselor with me.

Again, thanks to all for your thoughts and comments.
Georgi

Lucy_Bella

07-30-2010, 12:04 AM

Georgi,
When I was married I felt like part of me was missing, my wife could tell ,she said she could always tell when I had the un explainable urge to express myself in cding. I felt un happy sometimes denying that part of me but yet at the same time I was happy to be with my family.

I am now single , I have nothing holding me back to expressing myself and I am happy, but yet unhappy because I don't have my wife anymore. Cding wasn't the reason for our ending but it didn't help..I was able to surpress it but never stop ..I will be honest it was very hard to do..Good luck set you mind to it, just remember you are shutting a part of your life out.

Tricia Lee

07-30-2010, 12:28 AM

Ok, seriously - do you think when I say "Honey, would you go to talk to the counselor I've been seeing?" I'm displaying an immature attitude? Am I missing something here?

I'm sure that what she was calling immature is your wife's attitude that "she doesn't need to change".

Shelly67

07-30-2010, 12:32 AM

I'm afraid no matter how much we aim to live our life , councelling in my mind will NOT help to cease the desire to dress . Purging the closet or dresser is a costly repeated move made by many . Purging the character is another question . You may disagree , but it never goes away - it has to be recognised and accepted - in time the desire will return . You know this . Ok , so some partners are totally repulsed by anothers behaviour , but does it really mean a lifestyle alteration isneeded to keep one happy ? In the end , the only result will be is denial and unhappiness in abundance . I consider it far more important to commit to better communication between each other , opening all channels and having to at least confront issues in an equal manner . Ok , it means facing demons , but isn't that what couples strive to achieve ?
I consider it all too fresh , all too new for any planned directions whilst in a state of shock , fear and uncertainess . perhaps its time to let the dust settle , try to establish conversation without the fight or flight syndrome kicking in , only then could you decide on the direction of help together .
As for the " crowd " you mention on here . I think everyones situation is different , if the forum prompted you to come out and the result isn't good then perhaps there is a deeper issue personally in the relationship that you may have over looked - I wouldn't let a threads response be directly responsible for my actions . Prompt me to think for sure , but I'd consider the results of any actions I'd deliver first . It's without doubt the situation you are now in is a very uneasy scarey time , but it has to be dealt with .Properly . If it goes full belly up , then the outcome could be a long drawn out affair with the winners only ever being solicitors / lawyers . I'd try to avoid that like the plague , but in the cold stark reality it means no promises , no oaths or denial . It simply means facing up to the problem together . Remember - you got together for the love you both shared ... perhaps now its time to face those demons and do it together .And the most undeniable part of your situation has been hiding you away . Your wife feels cheated , lied too , but probably worst of all untrusted . You really need to attend to this . I'd seek marital help first in trying to get those communications gping again first - with help if need be . No threats , no promises , just cards on the table time .

Kerigirl2009

07-30-2010, 12:33 AM

I know NOW that I am a crossdresser and will never escape the thoughts that go with it. but it is the hardest thing that I have EVER had to ADMIT to myself.
WE as crossdressers still have a need for LOVE and can love just as much as any other person.

The hardest thing I ever had to do was tell my wife about me. Not because I had too but because I NOW knew it was the RIGHT thing to do because I excepted it as me and she should know about her husband.

Honestly, STOP telling people that we deserve to be divorced because we chose to ignore a part of ourselves that I am sure most just wanted to go away and never be discovered, but later found out and accepted.

BTW- my wife knows and is tolerant but has never met my femme side, I wish she would but I am willing to wait as long as it takes- if ever. But I DON'T BELIEVE I deserve to lose her for not being able to admit I am a crossdresser. most young couples are just learning about ourselves when we get married and grow together or apart. STOP JUDGING others. Yes it is a big secret for most that can have serious consequences and may end up hurting someone UNINTENTIONALLY. I think we just want to LOVE and be loved.

Pattie O

07-30-2010, 01:30 AM

Currently I am not dressed and have not been for a few days ie underdressed (as I'm closetted) and what I know is that you can stop for periods dependent on all sorts of things ie run out of clean underwear ! or just too tired to bother "with all that stuff' and the longer you stop the easier it becomes if your crossdressing is an addiction.I am also giving up smoking at present for the umpteenth time and this time I hope I can stop BUT it seems the old adage is once a smoker always a smoker,once a drinker always a drinker ie meaning not that you can stop but that the feeling will forever remain that you would love to continue.Now the difference to me is that smoking and drinking are dangerous to your physical health but in moderation maybe neither of them are going to shorten your life etc .Cd'ing may be addictive but in moderation and in a controlled situation can actually be good for you;eg a glass of red can be beneficial for your health ,So it all comes back to what you feel inside and believe in yourself and if you are destined to transition then with what Ive been reading that is a one way street and there is no getting off that train.If only a crossdresser then it may be controllable and this is where you may find compromise with your wife if you take time and give her time to digest the news.Giving up all together would to me be more impossible than stopping smoking and may be detrimental to your health especially your mental health!!

Tommie Rae

07-30-2010, 01:56 AM

My wife and I have been to a lot of counseling, both together and separately, and as much as I wanted to stop CDing in order to meet my wife's expectations I could never entirely give it up. I went months, sometimes as long as a year, but it always came back. My wife always asked me if I was "cured" during my quiet times, and I thought I was. But I wasn't, and you won't be either. Not one single counselor had any idea how to stop cross dressing. And Lord knows I tried every trick in the book to stop because I really wanted to meet her expectations. Every single counselor told us that I was doing nothing wrong and it really wasn't worth getting upset about it. When my wife heard someone tell her that she immediately stopped going to counseling because that did not agree with what was in her mind.

The only counselor who had the courage to really tell it to me straight said that I might as well face the fact that my wife would never accept anything to do with cross dressing. And I would never get over being a cross dresser. So she told me to accept those facts of life and if my wife couldn't come to terms with me then prepare to end the marriage and move on. This devastated me for a couple of years while I tried desperately to stop CDing and hold on to my marriage. I finally told my wife that this is certainly NOT who I wanted to be, but it is a part of who I am and if she can't accept me, love me, and be my sexual partner, then she is free to walk out the door at any time and I won't try to stop her.

Your wife is certainly entitled to her feeling and opinions, and you are entitled to your own. You can talk it over and figure out a way to continue to have a loving, caring marriage. Or you can decide that this is just not going to work for either of you. But you need to accept who you are, even though it may not be who you or your wife want you to be. Once you get there, then stand up for yourself. I am a firm believer in marriage and we are still married after 41 years. I do not want my marriage to end, and neither do you, but I would rather see it end than go back into denying who and what I am. My wife is far from accepting the CDing, but at least she accepts me in spite of it. Neither one of us wants a divorce so we just figure out ways to accept each other without reservation.

Good luck. I truly wish you the best but you really need to prepare yourself for what might seem like the worst. Once you have acknowledged and accepted that divorce may be a reasonable alternative then it becomes easier to try to work out your problems.

Satrana

07-30-2010, 02:14 AM

Pythos

07-30-2010, 02:28 AM

I am more than certain the comment by Silhouette was indeed directed to your wife.

I am sorry, but running into the bathroom and puking ever sentence I am sure was an over statement, and is also a sign of SEVERE mental problems on her part.

Her reactions if they are as you described are DISGUSTING!!!

I personally would want her out of my life if she reacted so unbelievably irrational. Why in the hell would I want someone that behaved in such an unbelievable manner to something like this? Is she such an effing saint? Does she do things that at one time were considered abhorrent for women to do? To me her behavior is equivalent to how some men behaved when they learned their wives were earning money doing a job on the side (yes there were times that men acted like this, but instead of violent throwing up, it was violent throwing the woman)

For eff's sake you are not cheating on her with another woman!!! You aren't out there diddling little kids!! You don't have an infatuation with Poop. You simply emulate the characteristics of the gender that you desire for affection.

I am sorry but her behavior just really pisses me off. Women that behave in the manner she is behaving do absolutely NOTHING for women in general (you know, the view that women are always irrational). You did indeed dump a big load on her, but this is just ludicrous to read.

Something tells me there is FAR more than what you are telling us, in this scenario. Her described behavior is just beyond the pale, when one really looks at it.

I am sorry if my reaction to a more thorough reading of her reaction was harsh, but dammit, you are doing nothing wrong!!!! Why are you treated like you are? Also, why are you beating yourself up like this? Yes you should be upset that you did not tell her earlier, but that is the only thing you did wrong....and with the irrational behavior of some people, who could really blame you?

Miss Misery

07-30-2010, 03:09 AM

With regard to quitting I'll add that I dressed from age 10 or so until I was almost 30. Then I came out to my wife of 2 years and she tried to accept it, even participate some but couldn't handle it. So I went back in the closet for a couple of years then after a major purge we moved to a very rural farm - I repressed my CDing for almost 20yrs w/ only occasional (maybe 5 or so) episodes - not full blown as I had no things and they were a real challenge to acquire - so just an undergarment or nylons. BUT - during those 20 yrs I repressed my CDing, I bet not a single week went by without me having vivid dreams of dressing. It never went away. Now, I've started to discuss it with my wife and she accepts it as something I do. But I'm truly amazed at how persistent and powerful this draw to dress is.

Pythos - I know much of what you're saying makes sense but one thing about this:

I personally would want her out of my life if she reacted so unbelievably irrational. Why in the hell would I want someone that behaved in such an unbelievable manner to something like this? Is she such an effing saint?

After you've been with someone and built a life together, it's not as easy to just walk away. There are a lot of ramifications from splitting up an established marriage that aren't necessarily there when you're younger. I see your point about why stay with someone who treats you like that and even agree - just want to point out it's complicated sometimes.

Also, I was thinking this evening while I was picking raspberries (yes, I actually got up from the computer today), what a f'ed up society we live in that looks down on adult males dressing as women YET it condones women, NO, MOTHERS who dress their 4 yr olds like hookers and have them dance (sometimes to provocative music) on stage for awards and prizes. AND this is considered entertainment as it is broadcast on TV. Crap - that should be considered child abuse at least and perhaps kiddie porn. But noooo - it's those creepy CD/TS folks that make us vomit. How about a little self-reflection America!!? Thanks Pythos - now I'm all fired up!!!!

Good night.

Nadia-Maria

07-30-2010, 03:18 AM

Tommie, I just wanted to congratulate you a lot for this moving post and of top quality. You have certainly made the most from your traumatic experience and I found your suggestions to Georgi were excellent. :love:

mklinden2010

07-30-2010, 05:11 AM

Gerrijerry

07-30-2010, 05:54 AM

I have to reply to your post.

I can say been there and done that. Yes I told my wife years after we were married. Yes it was the wrong thing to do because I should have told her before she put on the ring. I had the reason most did at the time I didn't understand about my self and who I was inside. My wife was angry and yes it was just about the end of our marrage.
However we went to a counselor and we talked and talked. This was not a week or a month it was over two years. We both had all the reactions for different reasons which have been already stated before. We found that we loved each other very much and there was other things that also had to be talked about. In the end we are still together but now there are rules that we both use for our marrage to work. Neither of us are perfect. It was very clear to the counselor that I could not change but could control how much I crossdressed. Over time the rules changed and we still have times that we both are not happy but at least now we talk. I know many who worked on there marrage with a counselor some stayed together some didn't. All I can say is some things can be fixed some things can't, it all depends on if you both want to try.

Kate Simmons

07-30-2010, 05:54 AM

Georgi, As I said in your introductory thread, I'm here as a friend for you to talk to as I know what you are going through. Contact me if you like after your first 10 posts. Take care my friend.:)

Katheryn

07-30-2010, 07:00 AM

Oh I don't disagree a bit with you about her acceptance. She will likely never accept my being a crossdresser and that's fine. What I'm hoping for is that someday (soon, hoepfully) she will be able to accept that I once was a crossdresser. If not, then this whole act of truthfulness was one total royal f*%kup on my part.

Thx,
Georgi

I'm sorry that she can't accept the real you. CD'ing is like being left handed, you can use your right hand conciously all you want, but you're still left handed. You can dress in drab for the rest of your life, but you're still a CD. The messup part of what happened is the same as what I did, and that's not to tell her before she said "I do".

My wife took it badly, but eventually came to understand that I don't want to become a woman, but merely sail on the estrogen ocean from time to time. I underlined that the elements of me that attracted her to me over other guys came from the parts of me that urged me to crossdress.

She will likely never accept my being a crossdresser

One of the important parts of all this is how you phrased the above quote. You said you're "being a crossdresser", not "that I crossdress(ed)" A crossdresser is what you are, not what you do. I discovered that when I tried to not be one for years for the sake of my marriage. Before I descended into depression and wrecked my marriage from the effects of denying half of what I am, I decided to come out to my wife, figuring that worst case senario, my wife would simply leave me earlier than waiting around for my personality to totally crash and burn to exit. Not tipping your cap to the girl inside has ramifications beyond the loss of business to the store selling women's clothes.

The other part of this is you're still posting as "Georgi" not "George, formerly Georgi". I truly wish you the best of luck, but sincerely hope you're not building this all on false hopes hopes and unrealistic dreams.

Kate

melissacd

07-30-2010, 07:32 AM

I agree with the several posters who say I've done nothing wrong, that this is not a disease. But at this point, standing up for a principle will certainly cost me my marriage while compromising by discarding my fetish (and it is a fetish, not a lifestyle) at least gives me a chance to save it.

Joint counseling is indeed my goal. I've promised to see a counselor to help me maintain my giving up of cd'ing. My hope is that I can convince my wife that she can benefit from going to see the counselor with me. So far she's resisted what I think has been gentle pushing (someone thought I was being immature for pushing her too hard I think), her general thought is that this is my problem, why should she have to do anything.

Georgi

This is why all of this concerns me. You agree that you have done nothing wrong and yet you also acknowledge that she feels that it is your problem, not hers and that she wants you to go and get cured. How can you be cured when you are not sick? That makes no sense.

CDing is not a disease. A relationship is about two people working together. In as much as I can totally get why it is that you want to save your marriage because I went through this as well, I am really concerned with these types of statements.

You can say that CDing is not that important, that your relationship is more valuable to you and I totally understand that. You can say that CDing is something that does not need to be a lifestyle but is a fetish instead and you can not do it and I can accept and wish you the best on controlling your urges.

The thing that I cannot accept and it has taken me a long time to learn this is that a person can learn something new about you and then basically hold you hostage forcing you to "cure yourself" or the relationship ends. That is not the way functional relationships work. This is not your problem, it is not even a problem at all.

The real problem is not the CDing, it is the unwillingness of your wife to be open to the idea that there are aspects of you that she may not like but, out of her love for you, should be willing to try and understand.

You see this is the challenge that I found myself in, my ex professed to love me and yet held me hostage too. It was cure myself or leave. She would not try and understand, she would not try and meet me half way. It was her way or the highway. For 10 years I tried to do it her way but in the end it was more than I could handle, not because of the cross dressing but because I had this odd belief that if someone loved you they would do their best to understand you and that even if they did not want to be a part of some aspect of who you were that they at least acknowledged that it was a part of your being. That is what for better or for worse encompasses.

I was devastated and dis-illusioned and I loved my wife dearly and just could not understand why she would not even try, that it always had to be her way, that I had to be cured when I did not actually have an illness. What I learned was that I did not value myself enough, that I was so afraid to be alone that I was prepared to do anything, but in the end I was unhappy and resentful.

I know that it is your life and your decision but a red flag goes up for me here, a big red flag and while you may not see it now I suspect that in years to come you will look back on this moment and realize what you cannot see right now - someone who loves you, who truelly loves you - does not force you down the path that she is pushing you down - this is tantamount to her using whatever means she has to bully you into doing what she wants. Deny it until you are blue in the face but that is what is happening here.

Melissa

Nadia-Maria

07-30-2010, 07:57 AM

I have always disagreed with the "Write 'em!" crowd. It's cowardly, it's clumsy, it's written evidence...

Your statement is incorrectly done, and appears as especially arrogant. You should instaed have written something like that :

"In my opinion, it's cowardly (...)"

This is your opinion indeed, and only your opinion. You don't have to show it here as if were the truth.
Others may disagree with you and are entitled to do it, since it's a matter of circumstances and of the people involved. There is not an only way to handle properly delicate situations. It depends on the people concerned and on the relationship. People who would act differently from you may have good reasons to do it which you can't understand yet. :2c:

Sara Jessica

07-30-2010, 08:10 AM

Reading this thread has been a little like passing a car crash, kind of hard to turn away, especially given the divergent opinions and advice in response.

Georgi, there's not a lot I can add from an advice standpoint. Your situation is foreign to me because my wife knew of my tg side long before we were married. That said, you made comments in response to the others which I find troubling...

I thought I'd share this with those who were considering telling their SOs because one of the major reasons I finally caved in and told her was the constant counseling of the 'tell her, tell her' crowd on this forum. I thought it appropriate to hear an opposing viewpoint.

I'm having difficulty with this, that you would make such a momentous decision because a bunch of "experts" in cyberspace suggested that you enter into full-disclosure mode after gosh knows how many years of marriage. Geez, we have much more influence than I could have ever imagined.

I think you misunderstand how I presented the letter to her. I took several weeks to compose this letter, then on the morning of July 5th sat next to her as I handed it to her to read so I was there for her to ask questions. I didn't mail her the letter or leave the letter for her to read in my absence. And by the way, the famed how to tell your SO thread proposes just this method of writing it out rather than trying to memorize your spiel and blurt it out from memory.

Something isn't adding up. Weeks to compose a letter, presented on July 5, a techniqe supposedly inspired by the "how-to-tell-your-SO" thread, yet you've only been a member since "July 2010". Not only were you influenced but you were speed-influenced. We're clearly very talented in these parts! Again, weeks to compose the letter? Maybe I'm missing something and if so, please help me understand.

mklinden2010

07-30-2010, 08:46 AM

Your statement is incorrectly done, and appears as especially arrogant. You should instaed have written something like that :

"In my opinion, it's cowardly (...)"

This is your opinion indeed, and only your opinion. You don't have to show it here as if were the truth.
Others may disagree with you and are entitled to do it, since it's a matter of circumstances and of the people involved. There is not an only way to handle properly delicate situations. It depends on the people concerned and on the relationship. People who would act differently from you may have good reasons to do it which you can't understand yet. :2c:

Saying, "I," in my response, pretty much covers the "my opinion" bit.

And, ONLY my opinion means a lot to me - count on it.

But, what is "the" truth that you speak of?

Do share - I think, in my opinion, to my limited understanding, as I see things, as I grasp the concept, to my mind, as it seems to me - it's why we're here.

Pythos

07-30-2010, 09:15 AM

Here is a variation of what we are witnessing here.

Now the subjects are much different than Men presenting a women.

It however involves something that is part of your soul and being, and if you lose it the effects can be devastating.

Not only am I androdynous, and Goth...I am also a pilot. Coursing through my veins is the "disease" of the want to at least once a month to be in the presence of machines that are dirty, smell, emit noxious fumes and have a high chance of killing you if you are stupid. But the feeling of flying is like no other, especially when on you own, and have no need to communicate with the outside world.

Several years ago one of the "old men of the airport" an older gentleman that had been flying since WWII, who owned his own airplane came to visit my boss's hanger. That day he was not the happy joking guy he usually was before getting his trusty steed out of the hanger and taking it up for a few hours.

This day though he was clearly troubled. His wife started acting stupid about his flying. Though not puking in the toilet, she was putting up a stink about the plane (this guy was filthy rich, so it was not anything about finances). They were married I think two or more years.

He said she had given him an ultimatum after months of limitations on his flying. (this guy was seriously P.W. an unpleasant term applied to men that collapse to the whims of the wife so they don't lose sex) When my boss, another older man, who served in the Chech air force also during WWII, looked at his friend and said "What?! She's telling you to get rid of the Bonanza or she leaves? Tell her to F&%k herself!!!" The conversation continued in much the same vein.

Couple of weeks later the plane was sold, and all was supposedly well. That old guy did not fly and vanished from the airport for about a month, or so we thought.

Then one day he shambled in, slumped shoulders, dejected look. We learned that he indeed went flying in a rental plane, and she learned. She left him. Now he was without his wonderful machine, and divorced.

Though on a different scale, CDing is very much like flying. There are those that can consider both a selfish act (Pilots who can afford it can spend many hours flying solo, flying only for their own enjoyment).

My reaction to Gerogi's wife is kinda based on the recollection of this example of supreme selfishness, and stupidity. Selfishness on the part of the woman and stupidity on the part of the guy that tried to give up flying.

Just like CDing you can't stop flying when aviation is a part of your being.

AKAMichelle

07-30-2010, 09:43 AM

Sorry for your wife's reaction. I seem to think that you did everything right as far as telling her when you did. I don't see anything wrong with your presentation.

Many of us didn't know how cd'ing worked when we were young. In my case I thought it was over when I married my wife. Several years later I had a relapse (so to speak), but a lot of my early cd'ing was sexual. So I continued to believe that it could be beaten. Now at age 50 I see that it changed and left me different. I would have made a lot of changes earlier if I knew then what I know now.

I think your story speaks to the difficulties many of us who didn't tell early have when telling a spouse later in life. It doesn't go well. A lot of times it rips the marriage apart. When I told my wife it was in hopes of repairing an already failing marriage. All that it did was speed up the process and end earlier. Which I am not unhappy about, just disappointed. I think the lesson which can be learned here is to tell the woman before you commit to them. Before you marry them. I think telling them early allows you to get to the one which will love you unconditionally faster and weed out a lot of heartache. What is the difference between being alone and being miserable? Not much in my book. Both leave you depressed and the feeling of abandonment.

Now the problem that you need to address with a therapist is how to deal with things not getting better between the two of you. It may take a long time for her, before the 2 of you get back to a semi-normal marriage. That will be hard and hopefully you will be successful.

One thing that I didn't read is how old you are? How many years have you been married? Does religion play a part in her non-acceptance? Do you have any kids? I think these items are part of the story about her non-acceptance.

Good luck to both of you. Hopefully you will find a way to patch up the marriage and live a long life together.

Rachel Morley

07-30-2010, 09:45 AM

The real problem is not the CDing, it is the unwillingness of your wife to be open to the idea that there are aspects of you that she may not like but, out of her love for you, should be willing to try and understand.

Awesome statement! :thumbsup: That sentence right there is the very crux of the issue. "... be willing to try and understand" If a perosn really and truly loves another person deep down inside, wouldn't they want to at least try to understand what makes them tick?. Putting one's head in the sand is not going to accomplish anything. Hopefully after the initial shock has worn off, perhaps you can save your marriage by both of you going to a councilor to talk about this.

mklinden2010

07-30-2010, 10:46 AM

Awesome statement! :thumbsup: That sentence right there is the very crux of the issue. "... be willing to try and understand" If a perosn really and truly loves another person deep down inside, wouldn't they want to at least try to understand what makes them tick?. Putting one's head in the sand is not going to accomplish anything. Hopefully after the initial shock has worn off, perhaps you can save your marriage by both of you going to a councilor to talk about this.

Yep, hers is the other side of the street that has to respond better than tossing her cookies, running to Mom and/or the lawyers.

I've had three really solid SOs (I've been married or in an SO relationship most of my life) who heard me out, thought it over, and, our lives went on just fine.

It wasn't all me - it wasn't all them - it was us.

You can do a lot of dumb things and the right SO will get you through it.

Works the other way too.

If it works, that's how it works.

NicoleScott

07-30-2010, 10:54 AM

At work, I always begin meetings by discussing with the participants the purpose of the meeting: why we're here and what we want to accomplish. Meetings don't go well if there's no agreement on this.
If you (as a couple) are considering going to counseling, you must discuss the reasons you're there: if you want her to accept your CD-ing and she's there to get you cured, counseling will fail. Sort of: the counselor still gets paid.

Georgi

07-30-2010, 11:16 AM

I'm not good at the multiple quote thing, so I'll write another summary response:

On the letter thing - Let it go. I did mis-quote the How to Tell You Partner thread. It said to take notes and use them to help you talk to her. I should have done the same, using my letter as a guide to help me talk to my wife. But that's history except for discussion of how to do it better. But quit with the yelling and screaming.

Georgi - I chose this as my name because it's the Russian form of George, so I chose a boy's name for myself for the forum, not a girl's name. I've chosen to give myself a male identity on this forum to help guide myself in trying to stick to my plan of submerging the crossdressing.

The Immature Attitude - Thanks for pointing out that Silhouette surely was talking about the wife. I apologize to Silhouette for flashing back too quickly with an incorrect assumption, I see it now.

Again, multiple posters are encouring me to see that I am and always will be a crossdresser, and I'm setting myself up for unhappiness if I deny that. Folks, I'm already in a place where I'm going to be unhappy about something. Losing my wife of 31 years will kill me. I've sat in the dark just trying to imagine living the rest of my life (I'm only 57) without her and THAT is what depresses the hell out of me. I love this woman and am going to do what it takes to keep her. If that means I am occasionally unhappy about a part of my life that I'm suppressing then so be it. That's probably the best way to look at why I'm boing to cousneling, to learn how to deal with the loss of crossdressing, not so much with trying to 'cure myself.'

A point I will make again to several who have said 'let her go'. That is not going to happen. I've loved this woman for longer than I've even had a life without her, voluntarily letting her go is just not an option for me regardless of what sacrifice I have to make. If we split up it's going to be because she puls herself out of my grasp.

Thanks again for all the input. I love you all,
Georgi

07-30-2010, 11:25 AM

There's nothing worse than the end of a long term relationship. No one needs that pain.

But...I'm always surprised to read something like this:
having wrecked what used to be a wonderful marriage.Surprised that anyone could consider a relationship wonderful or solid or perfect when one of the people in it is horrified, repulsed or otherwise turned off by who the other person really is. Trying to save a relationship like that seems more than a little masochistic to me. I'm on the side of those who feel the people in the relationship are more important than the relationship itself.

Yes, I have been in long term relationships, and yes I know how painful it can be when they end. But life is short, and it seems a little tragic to spend it with someone who doesn't like who you really are.

mklinden2010

07-30-2010, 12:08 PM

>>> On the letter thing - Let it go. I did mis-quote the How to Tell You Partner thread. It said to take notes and use them to help you talk to her. I should have done the same, using my letter as a guide to help me talk to my wife.

G,

Good summary.

Thanks for pointing out what the "How to tell" actually section says. Glad to hear it.

I have heard, "Write her a letter" so many times around here I thought that was still method number one.

Thirty one years? Ach, you'll work it out. You've made some mistakes, but you're on the way to mending them and you'll both get past this.

Good job on your current priorities.

This is going to wind up being a positive thing - as long as you keep admitting you're human, have been for a long time, and, probably always will be.

Only 57?

So much time to do so much more...

I take it, by the way, that you started young, found CDing useful, and just kept it on a back burner all this time?

No harm done then. And, good news! You're NOT suddenly someone else!

So, anyway.... Why speak up now?

Anything particular that prompted that?

Did you just want a couple of weekends on the town, or, what?

Sometimes, if you can be specific about what you want, it's a lot easier to work out what you (both) get.

And, there's nothing wrong with that, as long as everyone knows what's going on...

The first step can be the hardest.

After that, you learn not to take such big steps.

I'm on the side of those who feel the people in the relationship are more important than the relationship itself.

I take a different view on GOOD relationships. A GOOD relationship is more important than the people in it, and, the people in it, know it. You can get another person, but a good deal is a good deal. Do you see what I mean? Widows and widowers know how to get along, most times, better than newbies...

Two individuals, are just that, individual. When you enter into an agreement with another person, you create something greater than both of you. The point of creating a relationship is that it creates a boat, a bubble, a bridge with you two together and the rest of the world, "over there," "out there," or, "down there." We, at the same time, agree to leave you alone to pursue your happiness as you see fit together. And, it's in our self-interest to leave you two to your own plans if we want to be left to do the same.

The relationship creates an "us" bond based on the mutual pledge to look out for one another. In simple terms, it's going through life using "the buddy system" to minimize risk and energy loss, maximize security and purposeful activity, etc. There's all sorts of relationships and the challenge comes when someone says, "I didn't sign up for this!" Well, maybe they did and maybe they didn't - but you better listen. It's the same with, "I think now I want to..." They better listen then too.

If you want to have a bad relationship, think either one of you can do whatever the hell you want and the other one is stuck with whatever you do. Not!

If you want a good relationship, think about how "we" are going to do things, where "we'd" like to be later, and so forth.

If "I" gets worked into discussions too often, someone eventually winds up saying,

"I wish THAT hadn't happened!"

Aleria

07-30-2010, 12:44 PM

One other component...

WE have this forum. We can come here, commiserate, and get support (and we many not always like it, advice).

She's probably feeling lost. Whom can she talk to? Notice how we tend to keep this hidden, desperately afraid to share with anyone, lest we be thought of horribly or lose friendships?

She's probably wanting to talk with someone, but is afraid. "What will they think?" "What does it make me look like?" "Will they still like me?"

Could she tell her parents? Seek advice from a girlfriend? Coworker? She's outing herself... And given her negative reaction, she's probably imposed that same reaction upon any conceptional dialogue.

Her whole world is upside down, and she feels trapped and unable to tell anyone. Can't imagine she's feeling too good, and every time she sees you, she sees the One Who Ruined It All.

Ria

07-30-2010, 01:07 PM

ohhh... that blows Georgi... so sorry to hear this.

Hopfully she can eventually understand that CDing has chosen you not the other way around. We are simply a group of men that most often must choose acceptance of ones self and view it as a positive. CDing is such an easy thing to love, fortunately/unfortunately

I wish you the very best on overcoming this chapter.

Georgi

07-30-2010, 01:35 PM

>>>
So, anyway.... Why speak up now?

Anything particular that prompted that?

Actually there is, and that's one of the reasons I started this thread. I spent a year on this forum, first lurking and then registered under another name (long story I shouldn't share publicly). Toward the middle of the spring of this year a lot of threads kept popping up with the 'tell her, tell her' mantra as a common theme. Many closeted cd'ers were berated, I believe unfairly, for not telling their SOs and were pushed into believing that the only road to happines was to free the inner woman and tell the truth. For better or for worse I followed the siren song.

I wanted to post this thread to bring a little reality check to this 'tell her' concept, expose the risks, and discuss the dark side of it. We've done that to some degree although most of what we've talked about, and I'm not complaining, is advice on how I can fix my problem. Maybe later the philosophical discussion of tell/don't tell can proceed. I'm sure it's too early in my story to even know the full story as mine has a long ways to go to finish playing out.

Anyway, just wanted to give you a little more background on why I had told her in the first place. Up until 6 or 8 months ago, I'd have sworn to you there was no way I'd have ever told my wife about it, and I would have told you it was because there was no way she could ever accept the alternative lifestyle. Seems that I knew her better than I thought...

Thx,
Georgi

carhill2mn

07-30-2010, 02:11 PM

I am sorry that you are going through such a tough time. Your experience is not all that unusual. Despite the fact that many people feel it is better to tell your spouse that you are CD, things often do not go well. Many SO's are unable or unwilling to be at all understanding. Sometimes one can get a "feel" for how a SO might react to the "news" from earlier conversations or comments. Then there are others that are "OK" with CDing as long as it is not "her man" who is the CD.
IMHO it is a crap shoot (no pun intended) and the CD really needs to determine the "pros" and "cons" before telling.
I wish you good luck.

Sara Jessica

07-30-2010, 02:24 PM

...I spent a year on this forum, first lurking and then registered under another name (long story I shouldn't share publicly). Toward the middle of the spring of this year a lot of threads kept popping up with the 'tell her, tell her' mantra as a common theme. Many closeted cd'ers were berated, I believe unfairly, for not telling their SOs and were pushed into believing that the only road to happines was to free the inner woman and tell the truth. For better or for worse I followed the siren song...

Well that explains much and takes the steam out of my criticism so thank you for clarifying. That said, I still sense a contradiction. You mention a desire to "free the inner woman" yet you self-identify the whole thing as being a fetish situation. Those are two entirely different concepts. You chose to share a fetish which happens to repulse the one you love. The fetish could have been a completely different type and met with the same result. That said, assuming there was no inner woman to release, I'd have thought longer and harder about what good could possibly come from bringing said fetish into a 31 year marriage. I do wish you the best of luck in all this because as you are well aware, you cannot put the genie back in the bottle.

windycissy

07-30-2010, 02:30 PM

This is so sad, on so many levels...primary I feel sad for you Georgi, who tried your best and are hurting now, my heart goes out to you and I hope you are able to get through this, you obviously love her very much and maybe that will get you two through this. Almost as sad, though, is the gratuitious sniping and holier-than-thou preaching by some of us here who can't resist the urge to pile on, just when you need our unconditional support the most.

KarenCDFL

07-30-2010, 03:23 PM

I also have to agree with Pythos.

You have forgotten the fact that cross dressing is part of your personality and you will not be able to stop doing it or thinking about it without doing harm to yourself in some way.

There is no reason that your wife has to accept you and maybe never will. That is something you are going to have to accept.

BUT, you are not doing anything wrong as Pythos commented.

There seem to be more issues under the covers than just your cross dressing and that was just the kicker for everything else.

And for her to "throw up" over this is just a bit too dramatic in my view.

I wish your wife and yourself the the very best of luck in this matter.

Life does go on and if it souls come to pass that the two of you move on separately, next time you know you will need to be up front with anyone you are planning to have a long relationship with.

Lorileah

07-30-2010, 03:33 PM

Ok I stayed out of this long enough.

Empathy is high but sympathy is low here. So now the OP has said that it was a pressure from everyone here which led to the letter and the coming out. As noted in an earlier post letter=bad idea. I reeks of "I am ashamed and afraid." and it is set in stone so to speak. Like the old story about the brother who call another brother and asks how the cat is. The cat died. OMG why didn't you temper that with a story??...same here. Hand spouse a letter, I like wearing women's clothes...everything from then on is moot, world crashes. Given that most people here no longer have the option to come out at the beginning of a relationship. Also a given that waiting for 30 years into a marriage when you KNOW the spouse would disapprove to come out....not a good idea. Seems you could sort of know how they would react by then. This gets back to the "I feel for you but what the heck were you thinking" part. Sometimes slow and steady is better.

So the gist of the "tell her" posts you were reading didn't say slap her in the face (at least as far as I remember...but maybe there was one or two that said that) with the information. Most said talk to her (talk...communicate face to face...not email, not letter, not phone call from a hotel in Baltimore). I know that there were posts that said write a letter...but they meant write stuff down so you could talk.

You know this won't go away. It won't go away from her stand point because every time you go to buy milk she will think you are sneaking out to dress up (and whatever misconceptions she has about what you do then). You can tell her you won't do it. She will KNOW you will. If you can drop this then the whole thing was at least in your mind a game that you were playing. You wore the clothes for fun. Thus why did you have to tell to start with? Wasn't any fun anymore? But if this is truly who you are, you can say you'll quit, you might even succeed at least awhile and then you will do it again. Now it is a sneak thing again, a lie. You will sneak around fearful and afraid and your demeanor will change and you will become unbearable. Then she will start to suspect. Hopefully she will only suspect you are dressing again but in her mind you are cheating, even if you aren't and she will start being unpleasant and now the whole divorce thing comes back up. One or both of you will be unhappy in this relationship.

My soapbox about all this is you had a marriage based on fallacies. You assumed a lot she assumed a lot and evidently you didn't assume the same thing. Dating has a lot of good reasons and it isn't just to get "some" you know. It is when you find out how the other person thinks and feels. Someone wasn't paying attention. Ok so you get married and you both assume that the castle and princesses and princes and no dragons...but you still know how the person feels on certain subjects. They don't like short people or they hate the color yellow. You don't have short friends and you don't buy the color yellow. But when she says something like "Did you see how that guy dressed in that movie? What a weirdo." Pretty god indication you should either come clean then (early) so you both can move on or you live with your secret...until you can maybe slowly change her thoughts on it. Not in one fell swoop.

Now the other point I want to make here is the word Fetish. There is the implied sexual part of this. Or something one does for sexual gratification. That is how we have come to associate the word now (actually a fetish is an object that has mystical powers and often is held to invoke those powers). But to be blunt here, even if some people on this board have a sexual "fetish" for clothes (in other words they have to dress to have sex), dressing in and of itself is NOT a fetish for the majority. We cannot overcome prejudice when we propagate it ourselves.

Sorry for the long post but all the "poor me" posts are really just "feel sorry for me" posts recently and the spouse is cast in the bad person role. Two way street here. Responsibility rests on telling early so the relationship can either grow or fail before your investment is too high

TonyaV

07-30-2010, 03:40 PM

ReineD

07-30-2010, 03:40 PM

Toward the middle of the spring of this year a lot of threads kept popping up with the 'tell her, tell her' mantra as a common theme. Many closeted cd'ers were berated, I believe unfairly, for not telling their SOs and were pushed into believing that the only road to happines was to free the inner woman and tell the truth.

I appreciate your wish to warn other CDs that telling the truth is not always the best policy. I'm in no position to judge whether this is true for you or not, since you first describe the CDing as a sexual fetish that can be shelved for the sake of your marriage, and then you speak of it as a deeper identity issue:

(and it is a fetish, not a lifestyle)

the only road to happines was to free the inner woman and tell the truth. For better or for worse I followed the siren song.

The surface goal in telling wives is to have honesty within the relationship, and not deceive the wife. But the reason honesty is preferable over deceipt is that in enables the person to be true to who he is, thus making it possible to achieve optimal self-actualization. This is true for everyone. I can't imagine living a life, feeling I could not disclose who I am to the people I love.

If the CDing is only a fetish to you, then I don't see why it shouldn't be possible to realign your sexual desires in order to be more in tune with your wife's. There are sex therapists who can help with this sort of thing. Honestly, I don't see a difference between CDing purely as a sexual fetish, and other fetishes such as the need for bondage or sado-masochism. If your wife finds any type of sex play distasteful, if the totality of her sexual experience is sourced from her emotional bond with you and her desire to maintain traditional roles within your sexual relationship, and if she wants to be the sole source of your sexual desire, then it would behoove you to do what you can in order to meet her there. Sexual compatibility is important in a marriage. In other words, it is best for your relationship if you become aroused by your wife rather than the CDing.

In any event instead of telling her that you are an ex-CD, tell her the truth that you will sacrifice your own needs for the sake of the relationship but that these CD thoughts will always be with you and she needs to deal with that knowledge and accept it.

But I suspect you told your wife because the CDing is more than a fetish. Or maybe you felt the inner conflict between your sexual desires as Georgi and as your wife's husband. Either way, you felt stuck somehow and this made you unhappy, else I don't think you would have told her. But if you suspect that you might engage in the CDing for deeper reasons than the purely sexual, I wholeheartedly agree with Satrana's approach. If you don't do this, you risk eventually losing your marriage, your sanity, or both, since you cannot deny your gender identity, even if you only partially have a femme identification together with your male ID.

I wish you and your wife all the best in this, and I'm glad you posted your experience.
:hugs:

Olivia2

07-30-2010, 04:00 PM

Georgi,

I may add more in a later post, but given that it has been less than a month since you told your wife, don't get anxious because things are not smoothed over in the relationship. You were in a difficult position in either case regarding whether to keep a big secret in the relationship or open things up and in either case the potential for emotional distance, at least for you, and maybe your wife in either case as well. You chose what you thought was best and hopefully it will turn out the way you wish. But it will take time and try not to get to attached to any outcome so soon. I'm sure many people here can testify to similar reactions from spouses when they were told and a month is simply not enough time for the emotional processing to take place. I hope your therapist is supportive and not judgmental so you can explore what is best for you (and your marriage) in the current time period. My best wishes and prayers for you both.

Georgi

07-30-2010, 05:03 PM

As noted in an earlier post letter=bad idea. I reeks of "I am ashamed and afraid."

Can we get off this letter thing? I didn't mail it to her. I didn't send it to her from another state. Yes, I should have taken her hands in mine, looked into her eyes and said the words from memory. But numerous posts had mentioned the technique of writing things out in a letter to give her while she sips hot chocolate with you by her side, so you wouldn't get tangled up and forget crucial things, and you're there to answer any questions she has. But 'reeks of ashamed and afraid'? I really tried to do the best job I could of breaking it to her gently and with love and respect. So pardon me if I f**cked up.

Also a given that waiting for 30 years into a marriage when you KNOW the spouse would disapprove to come out....not a good idea. Seems you could sort of know how they would react by then. This gets back to the "I feel for you but what the heck were you thinking" part. Sometimes slow and steady is better.

Yeah, after 30 years I did change my mind. Why? I found you guys.

Lorileah, bless your heart, yours was one of the loudest of the loud of the tell-her crowd. Your constant chant of 'tell her', 'if she doesn't like it leave', 'you must be true to your own self', etc. was all over the place. I don't want to start a flamefest, your opinion is yours and may well be a valid point of view and good advice for some people. Didn't work out so well for me. I should have stayed my own course. I do take full responsibility for my own actions, nobody held a gun to my head, but if I had never heard of crossdressers.com, I can guarantee that I'd have never come out to my wife and I'd still be guiltily hiding my stuff in the attic.

My soapbox about all this is you had a marriage based on fallacies. You assumed a lot she assumed a lot and evidently you didn't assume the same thing.

Thank you for the psychoanalysis. I guess I don't need to bother with going to the therapist after all.

I'm sorry to make this so hostile, but I really do remember your advice being so pro-'tell-her'. Go back and search for posts under your name and see if the 'tell her' theme doesn't show up in a great number of them.

Thx,
Georgi

Georgi

07-30-2010, 05:19 PM

I'm going to cool off and not post mean and hateful stuff so this doesn't turn into a flamefest.

Lorileah, I'm sorry for flaming you, but I do stand by what I said about your being a very pro 'tell-her' advocate. In fact, this entire forum is very strongly biased toward the tell-her side of the argument.

As I said before, I don't blame anyone even though it sounds that way in my posts. I am a big boy and I take responsibility for my actions. I am somewhat bitter over the fact that if I had never discovered this forum I would never have been exposed to the transgendered way of thinking and I would have almost certainly never come out to my wife (never say never).

But I got caught up in a lot of conversations this spring, and although I felt strongly that I was not transgendered but more of a fetish crossdresser, I got caught up in the argument that honesty was the only way to live life with my wife. Didn't matter that it had been 31 years, yes there would be flak over the long time, and there would be some pain over that, but coming out to her later would be better than having her accidentally finding it or coming out voluntarily still later on.

I had been convinced my entire married life she would not handle it well, that she did not view alternative lifestyles well. Somewhere in the last couple of months I deluded myself into believing that either that was changing or that somehow I could make that change with honesty and love.

So, I'm sorry for stirring the flames. Lorileah, again I apologize for being nasty in the way I spoke to you.

Thx to all,
Georgi

paulinescotlandcd

07-30-2010, 05:20 PM

If it helps I remember asking on another Forum many years ago for those who had told their wives partners etc after some time together if the result was positive or negative. I am pretty sure they vote came out in favour of telling by about 90% for and about 10% that said things went from bad to worse. I reckon your wife's reaction must surely be at the extreme end of that 10%.

As for me I told my wife before we got married 30 odd years ago, still been a rough old ride at times because as stated before women think that they can change little things like that! The answer to that is no. The urge to dress simply gets more intense as we get older. I say about mid 30's to mid 40's I cranked it up quite a bit by wanting a wig and my own clothes makeup etc.

Anyway, good luck from me.

DonniDarkness

07-30-2010, 05:20 PM

Your wife has a right to her feelings. Go apologize for being such a dope. If you have to smoke, drink, crossdress, dance, hunt, gamble, or, whatever to be your best self, just own up to it. People want to love and be loved. But, they want to know who, what, when, where, how and why to feel safe doing so.

Hes right Georgi....You are the point of forsaking who you are to please her, if you compromise your best you, then you have nothing really to offer. If you love yourself as much as you do her, then come to common ground....if it pains her for you to be you, then you must let her go......because you love her.

Painful as that may be....but we have all made sacrifice for those we love...

Walk Your Path, we will be here if you need us.

Best Wishes,

-Donni-

Proteus

07-30-2010, 05:31 PM

I understand misgivings about crossdressing, or any other unusual lifestyle for that matter. But throwing up is really over the top.

I have been wary of committed relationships, CD notwithstanding, simply because I don't want to wake up one day and find that the woman I love to the point of complete support and devotion might not return the favour.

Sure you can stop wearing women's clothes, just as you can stop any other behaviour. You can do that fine without the help of a therapist. But it's not in a therapists power, or even your power to change your personality, and your wife should realise this. Does she want to change your personailty?

SuzanneBender

07-30-2010, 05:43 PM

Georgi I appreciate your post it’s a cautionary tale to those just starting down our path. There are many lessons to be learned from this thread.

I haven't posted much lately but this one is just too meaningful on a personal level to pass up. To expand on Sara Jessica's analogy this thread isn't just a car wreck that you can't help but look at. Its one of those car wrecks that you drive by and see yourself sitting in the driver’s seat.

I am truly sorry for both you and your wife. I will pray for both of you and I am sure things with “work out” for the best. Unfortunately, at this point we can’t define what “work out” looks like. I wish I could give you a road map to get to the resolution you want but the one truth in all of these posts is that none of us know how to get there.

Less than 6 months ago I was in your shoes. I came out to my bride and love of my life after 15 years and yes I used a letter that I read to her with tears in my eyes, because a teleprompter was not available. I didn’t want to miss any key points at that emotional moment. Her initial reaction was shock and then anger. Wow, what anger, but that subsided as I shared with her how much she meant to me and as we spent numerous nights working through issues that neither of us understood. We are not out of the woods and everyday is filled with challenges and issues, but I know things will “work out” and I don’t regret coming out no matter how God eventually defines “work out”.

Coming out isn’t all roses, rainbows, and singing birds especially for us that fought this issue for so long hoping that it one day would go away. It has been said in this thread once the Genie is out of the bottle you are stuck with Barbra Eden living in your life forever. I have discovered that the person you just came out to will never look at you the same way again. They may or may not accept who you are and they are sure to feel betrayed. Acceptance and trust will need to be developed and rebuilt and this could take a lifetime.

Lessons learned from us Ghosts of Coming Out Past:

- Come out to the one you love before you get married.

- Coming out after marriage will have consequences sometimes significant.

- Once you come out the closet door the locks and there is no going back in.

- Teleprompters are not suitable for use during your coming out discussion with your spouse.

I wish you and any of the other folks on this board that are wrestling with this the best of luck. :hugs:

TonyaV

07-30-2010, 05:47 PM

Georgi - I also got my courage to tell my wife by listening to others on this Forum, and the initial result was a disaster. The one thing I did do though, was taking my specific situation and planned my coming out accordingly. I waited for her to bring up the subject on her own, as she often does when she walks in on me as I am shaving my legs, plucking eyebrows, etc... and took it from there. Yet, her reaction was negative, and she threatened to leave me. A couple of weeks later she felt easier about it and asked to make her few commitments.

If your marriage is as solid as you initially stated (we all hope), just give her a little longer to cool off. Tell her you were thinking of it to spice up your and her sex life, together, which I am sure it's true.

Am sure most members of this Forum want nothing but the best for you.

Follow your heart, and good luck. I'll be praying for you.

:hugs::love:

Lorileah

07-30-2010, 05:49 PM

I'm sorry to make this so hostile, but I really do remember your advice being so pro-'tell-her'. Go back and search for posts under your name and see if the 'tell her' theme doesn't show up in a great number of them.

Thx,
Georgi

Yes tell her...talk to her... You didn't you wrote a letter (back on that again I know). Then you threw it at her and stepped back. There was absolutely no indication you had ever discussed anything like this. And my advice to tell was early...not later. Be that as it may, the original post was asking US for sympathy. You even pointed out the part where I suggested getting out...but you aren't. You have decided to quit dressing. That is your decision and I wish you luck but odds are this is going right where you think it is going anyway. Maybe the advice from earlier read that surprise was the best option...I don't remember that at all. If that is how I made it sound, I will have to amend that.

It was a different world 30 years ago and I realize that at that time we were considered freaks. But still, having been in that situation, I also know that when I started dating I knew my future wife's slant on politics, religion, taste in food, clothing, how a "man" should act and be. Yes I spent years NOT being who I was on the outside, but is the person on the inside that we cared about. So when it came to I want to wear _____, she wasn't shocked. She thought it was strange because she personally felt it uncomfortable (shoes, underwear, skirts etc). It wasn't an overnight "Hey look what I have on!" thing. But is was early (actually even before we were married). So I don't understand your surprise at her reaction. Did you mention it even in passing? Subtle hints?

I was not saying don't tell, I was saying tell before you get deeply invested. I was also saying why the surprise? and why are you clinging to this when it is evident that you two have different opinions (see you post above about getting out.) this is a no win situation for you and her. And (yes I am psychoanalyzing) this will be a thorn in your relationship from now on. She became physically ill...I don't think you are going to change her concepts over night. If you go back and read those posts you reference I speak of loving the person not the clothing they wear. It is the person you love and she has an ideal of you that isn't true. Can you get her to see the person inside. Probably not at this point. If you ar4e willing to work that out and try...I say go for it. But if you think you (or her) will be happy with you pretending that this side of does not exist...you will be in for another surprise.

I stick with the "tell her" part...I also stick with the "get on with your lives" part. I hate divorce, I hate splitting up but in the long run, that is often the best. You want sympathy...sorry she acted the way she did and I am sorry you are hurt. But that is the sympathy. Do I feel for you? yes, that is empathy. You did the tell her part. Now you have to decide if the getting on with your life is the next move. You felt strong enough to open up, now you may need to be strong enough to move on. Love is a two way street as they say. It is compromise. I see no compromise here. This is a dominance thing. Not an equal thing.

And it is OK to flame me. I can take that. It isn't the first or last time. But my empathy for you says you need to reconsider your next move (quitting dressing will most likely fail but if it works out for you...then I am happy for you). Right now I don't see you two communicating and you can't tell her how you feel and she has closed up how she feels.

Miss Misery

07-30-2010, 06:12 PM

Man, let's give Georgi some kind of credit here. He tried to do the right thing. Some complain of how he did it. Others that it wasn't sooner ....

Get over yourselves people - everyone of us (GG's not withstanding) could be or have been Georgi. It wasn't the way you did this or that or how soon you told your SO (if you did) that landed you in "acceptanceland". It was who your SO was/is.

For example - he could have told her before they got married and she could have told him "We're done. Marriage is off." But wait, telling early was a solution to her feeling deceived. Yep, not deeived and not married. Probably better in the long run BUT certainly NOT the outcome desired by the CD.

OR - get your thoughts together, take notes, do a practice video AND then talk to her about it. WAIT - she'd running into the bathroom puking. But I did everything right. Yes, you did BUT it's not all under our control where, if we say it/do it just right, she'll be okay with it. The okay with it part is in her. Who she is. How she feels about you. And plenty of other things out of our control.

So - we, as CD/TS individuals need to recognize that's who we are and that by putting it out there, no matter how nicely or logically done, we run the risk of not being accepted. That risk of not being accepted is what keeps most of us in the closet.

For those that aren't out and are in a relationship, I'd venture that much of your time is spent not CDing. So, after 20 or 31 years, you have a lot of time spent with your partner, unrelated to CDing. The risk of losing that relationship is huge - particularly for something that may consume 1% of your time. For GG's - that's another reason, fair or not, as to why some don't come out - it's a no win situation for them. Can't stop something that really only takes up a bit of overall time and can't handle potentially destroying relationship.

For the GG's - and Giorgi's especially - Was his mariage/relationship good for the 31 yrs before he told his wife? But he was a CD all that time. She just didn't know. So knowing is what ruined their relationship? That sure seems like an SO/GG problem - as I said in the beginning, that's the variable that dictates acceptence or not

Hang in there Giorgi. Do what you need to do but remember that you're a worthwhile person and deserve to be happy. We only get one time around in this life.

MsJanessa

07-30-2010, 07:36 PM

Pythos - some people feel an absolute need to completely control their SO---I think that was the situation with your pilot friend---not so sure its the situation with Georgi's wife---key difference is that your pilot friends wife knew he was a pilot before she married him--knew it was part of him and she had no business trying to change that---Georgi's wife didnt know about her cding when she married him---big difference--that said, you are correct--Georgi can no more stop her desire to cd than your friend could stop his desire to fly---and ultimately its the wife who will have to make a choice.

Rondalake

07-30-2010, 08:03 PM

Georgi,

I understand both sides of your situation. I'm sure we've all been there at one time or the other. I will pray for you both.

Hugs,
Roni

Rachel Morley

07-30-2010, 08:09 PM

I Feel for the SO .... She's probably feeling lost.

If a person really and truly loves another person deep down inside, wouldn't they want to at least try to understand what makes them tick?

Yes Aleria, good point. In my above quote of myself, that "at least try to understand" idea goes both ways. Georgi has to try to understand just exactly why his wife hates the idea of crossdressing so much that she was physically ill when he told her. :2c:

Paisley GG

07-30-2010, 08:15 PM

I got to say as someone who has anxiety issues I would have done it this exact same way.... the stress that you must have been feeling must have been intense, so there would have been a good chance you would have missed saying things you intended....better have what you want to and need say written down.

I think you misunderstand how I presented the letter to her. I took several weeks to compose this letter, then on the morning of July 5th sat next to her as I handed it to her to read so I was there for her to ask questions. I didn't mail her the letter or leave the letter for her to read in my absence. And by the way, the famed how to tell your SO thread proposes just this method of writing it out rather than trying to memorize your spiel and blurt it out from memory.

Give her the time she needs, and take it one step at a time....don't think too far ahead but cover your ass as one person suggested. She needs to figure out how she feels and what she wants for her life. She has this right! Just like you have the right to live your truth. Hope that some how you can both come together and find a way to make it work because there is obviously love there. Seek some counseling as many have already suggested...they can really help with the navigation of this difficult time for both of you.

No matter what....remember this time, as difficult as it is, will pass!

Georgi

07-30-2010, 10:35 PM

Georgi has to try to understand just exactly why his wife hates the idea of crossdressing so much that she was physically ill when he told her.

Amen. I tried gently to get her to talk about it when we're in a quiet controlled environment like taking a drive. She has a saying "it's like taking a very fragile christmas ornament out of a box, but it's so fragile I'm afraid to even hold it so I have to put it back away immediately. I can't look at it or even think about it or it might break." So I can get her to talk about what it is about the crossdressing that is so repulsive to her.

So now my last line of defense is the counseling, joint and solo. In joint counseling we should be able to talk to the counselor about goals and what we both think the goals of our counseling ought to be. Then in her private sessions perhaps the counselor can work a little more deeply on whatever her revulsions are. No guarantees, I know, but a plan of action that at least has a chance of some level of success.

Even partial success in counseling could return portions of the marriage to nearly what they were before. I'd like to be able to kiss her on the lips but the best I can do right now is a peck on the cheek.

But I digress. Yes, understanding is key. And vice versa, the more she can learn and come to understand what crossdressing truly is and is not may help as well. Right now I'm now sure how much of the big picture she's managed to absorb. She's ignore my efforts to come to forums like this one, or to read books like "My hunband's a crossdresser". I think she believes I'm trying to put one over on her and subvert her beliefs into making it ok for me to continue life as a crossdressers, and even bring her into it with me.

It's late, I'm going to be typing with my forehead in a minute. Goodnight gentle souls.
Georgi

Satrana

07-30-2010, 11:06 PM

If we split up it's going to be because she puls herself out of my grasp.

I am sure everyone wants and expects you to put utmost effort into saving your relationship. There is no need to explain the horrible pain from separating from a long term partner who has been everything for your entire adult life.

Maybe now is not the time for you to consider this but there is something worse than ending the relationship, and that is staying in a relationship where your partner is repulsed by you. If your wife refuses to budge from her current position then what are you hanging onto?

In all likelihood it will take you years to reach a stage where you can examine your relationship realistically. I hope in time your wife will take steps towards some level of acceptance and accommodation so a fair compromise is obtainable. In that case the relationship is worth keeping.

She's ignore my efforts to come to forums like this one, or to read books like "My hunband's a crossdresser". I think she believes I'm trying to put one over on her and subvert her beliefs into making it ok for me to continue life as a crossdressers, and even bring her into it with me.

I would say that is a common reaction and that is going to be your main problem. If she refuses to educate herself because she sees this as a ruse to get her to change her beliefs then you are beating a dead donkey. Even councilors cannot get through to a closed mind who sees conspiracies.

Miss Misery

07-30-2010, 11:11 PM

docrobbysherry

07-31-2010, 12:13 AM

However, if and when u DON'T, and if u live in SoCal, I've got a terrific divorce attorney for u!:brolleyes:

Nadia-Maria

07-31-2010, 01:41 AM

In fact, this entire forum is very strongly biased toward the tell-her side of the argument.

Agreed. And many people advocated here that "honesty is always the best policy". I must confess I somewhat doubt so many people saying it so loudly can be 100% honest in their own lives though.:devil:

As I said before, I don't blame anyone even though it sounds that way in my posts. I am a big boy and I take responsibility for my actions. I am somewhat bitter over the fact that if I had never discovered this forum I would never have been exposed to the transgendered way of thinking and I would have almost certainly never come out to my wife (never say never).

I empathize with your feeling.
Maybe you lacked a bit confidence about your own intuition and had thought other people knew better.

Now you can be aware you know better than most do.

I am confident you will find the best way to handle your present situation.
But it might take several months to reach a satisfactory state.

Olivia2

07-31-2010, 04:05 AM

Giorgi,

I'm sorry but this response by your wife is TOO MUCH. I know you say you still love her but her behavior towards you sends a very different message of how she feels about you. IMHO, if your CDing could take her from loving you to whatever it is she feels now (doesn't look nor sound like love to me), she's the one with a problem AND she needs to figure out why she has to get ill at the thought of her husband CDing - OH the drama!

I know you are hurting Giorgi BUT you don't desrve this kind of treatment FROM ANYONE let alone someone who supposedly loved you. Her behavior makes me question where she was really at in the relationship BEFORE you told her.

I really think that the emotional shock Georgi's wife is feeling after 31 years is just too strong at this point to warrant any questioning of whether she loves him. I had a huge argument with a girlfriend of less than 2 years who felt our relationship had been a "lie" because I had held back some things I had been angry about. She got over it. Maybe Georgi's wife will or won't be at least give it some time. 26 days is a drop in the bucket in the course of a 31 year relationship.

We see our CD'ing as normal and everyday behavior. We don't have to look very hard on the rest of the world to realize how little they still now about it. I'm in a graduate level counseling program and you'd be surprised (or maybe not) how little potential counselors know about transgender issues. So I'm simply saying we have to put ourselves in her shoes to realize how unexpected this was and give her (and both of them) some time to work through this. There is no hurry to suggest an end to this marriage.

However, if and when u DON'T, and if u live in SoCal, I've got a terrific divorce attorney for u!:brolleyes:

Can we have a little sensitivity here?

Shelly67

07-31-2010, 04:29 AM

Well , theres one undeniable fact here . Once the dust has settled , things will be so delicate BUT they cannot be swept under the carpet . Pandoras box is well and truely open , and if everything is NOT discussed then it'll remain a silent ugly elephant in the room . If we all can only realise one thing .... disagreements must be approached , even if only to agree to disagree . It's going to be a very difficult time , open conversation will become so intense , so embaressingly painful at times . However , if it's done from the heart with reflection all anguish should dissapear and the last 31 yrs should stand as a foundation of a good marriage .
Its so evident that you must give it time , then approach your wife with what you as a person want . You hid the femanine part of you for so long - surely you realise thats an indication of how it special it is and how natural it is to you . It's as clear as day in other areas too . Just think , if this is not subjected to full and frank discussion it'll return in many ways , perhaps your wife will question your every move ?. Who knows - one things for sure niether of you need the stress thats occurring . It's certainly not an end to your marriage , but simply a time to work at it .
Time to discuss it like an adult .
Its a blunt statement , but the undeniable truth .
So , only you know how your wifes emotional position is right now . only you know when the time is right , but you have to deal with it - you , the clothes the personality - the reasons for hiding away - the lot .
Perhaps then if a joint agreement can be decided , then a way forward be established .
Good luck .

Terraforming

07-31-2010, 05:58 AM

Giorgi,

I'm sorry but this response by your wife is TOO MUCH. I know you say you still love her but her behavior towards you sends a very different message of how she feels about you. IMHO, if your CDing could take her from loving you to whatever it is she feels now (doesn't look nor sound like love to me), she's the one with a problem AND she needs to figure out why she has to get ill at the thought of her husband CDing - OH the drama!

I know you are hurting Giorgi BUT you don't desrve this kind of treatment FROM ANYONE let alone someone who supposedly loved you. Her behavior makes me question where she was really at in the relationship BEFORE you told her. If push comes to shove, I can tell you who won't have trouble finding a new partner and who will likely be alone - You tried to be honest Giorgi. Good luck.

Amen Satrana!! Amen!

Experiencing an alternative lifestyle firsthand changes our perspective on such an issue, but for a lot of people it's such a passing thing that society calls deviance in a very negative light. You can't expect such a sudden change from someone who has held that viewpoint for such a long time. Ignorance is a difficult beast to tame, but as someone who has stood by her for 31 years it's perfectly reasonable to give her space to digest this information.

I think you're going the right way with this by seeking a mediator Georgi. Hopefully she will at least be willing to try to see past her revulsion so she can see the kind of sacrifice you are trying to make for her.

One very important thing though. Like others have said, honesty is the best policy. If the urge to dress comes back again and you don't feel like you can suppress it, be honest with yourself that it isn't something that you can just hide and proceed from there. Try to seek the best for yourself as well as the best for your relationship.

Georgi

07-31-2010, 07:53 AM

Thank you - Everyone! I've read every word of everybody's posts, some of them more than once and will take your advice and see how it can work for me.

My wife returned from a three-day road trip last night, crawled into bed at 1AM with the perfunctory good night and that was all. We'll see today if she's going to agree to the appointment I have set for her next Tuesday (was Monday but the Dr had to move me to Tuesday). If she will accept that, maybe the road to counseling begins and a two-way dialogue starts. Once we start talking, well, at least we'll be talking. That will be a dramatic improvement over the last month.

I'll more of less end this thread here unless someone comes up with radically new thoughts. I know this thread had been emotionally draining on me just reliving the last month in detail, and maybe on some of you. Maybe in a few weeks or a month or two if things change one way or the other between us I will have some new insights to share.

Cheers,
Georgi

AKAMichelle

07-31-2010, 09:27 AM

I wish the best for you. I know how hard it is to tell and survive it after a long marriage.

I am a very loud member of the "TELL HER" group. As part of that group, I try to get people to see what happens when you don't tell and finally wait until years later to share the secret which you should have told her earlier. Now granted 26 years ago when I got married, I thought it would all go away. I mistakenly thought it had gone away because I was so madly in love. The reality is that it gets buried but it does come back. Hiding and denying it isn't the answer. I don't know exactly what the answer is since it depends upon the 2 people involved so much.

I am also a loud member of the group telling you to quit living a lie. That one is a lot tricker. Many of us have found a way to deal with things in our marriage and be happy. But there is this part of us which we find necessary to indulge. Eventually the SO will find the clothes or something else which gives her a hint as what you are doing. It is too late to come clean at that time. Your busted. I believe that the cd'er should control how the story is told. You decided on the best solution for you and it had a terrrible consequence. I have never heard of a wife throwing up after finding out you are TG. All I say is that must have been one hell of a letter.

I personally don't think that all is lost in your case. I do remember a saying that I had in my annual as a senior. "A man's mind stretched by a new idea will never go back to its original dimensions." I don't know who said it but it is as relevant in my life and it is in yours. Your marriage has changed forever. It will never be the same. Trying to take your marriage back to what it was is wrong. You should be trying to improve your marriage. Your marriage like a lot of others was built on lies and deception. Now you should find a way to get through to her and rebuild the marriage better than it ever was. You have a good foundation since you both love each other, hopeful both of you can find a way to rebuild it. This time maybe with greater understanding.

The last point that I want to make is that telling a SO doesn't work immediately all of the time. Sometimes even with the accepting SO's it takes a long time before acceptance is even possible. The question that you should ask yourself is "Would you feel differently about telling her if in 1 year from now she accepted you and your marriage was better than before?" I think the answer is "YES". Yes we screw up telling them because their are a lot of different methods and we can choose only one. There are no mulligans in telling a SO so it is what it is. I hope that you will find a way to rebuild the marriage better than it was before. You are doing what you can. Love is your best tool so use it and let her know how much you love her.

Good Luck to you. :hugs:

P.S. Yes after telling my wife things didn't work out, but I have no regrets. Our marriage was already done for. Cd'ing just finished it off. I tried to use the telling about my cd'ing as a way to rekindle the love by her understanding what I was going through. It didn't work. But if I had told her early in our relationship things would have been a lot different.

Miss Misery

07-31-2010, 09:37 AM

I know Giorgi has ended his participation in this thread but I want to point some things out using his situation.

Can we have a little sensitivity here?

Not seeing much sensitivity from Giorgi's wife, are we? Oh, I know. She's so shocked, hurt or what have you BUT that doesn't excuse her treatment of Giorgi. She can be hurt etc without treating him like crap. THAT is what could destroy the relationship - I know, give her time .... but this kind of dailly shunning will impact their realtionship even if they do resolve things. I think her distancing from Giorgi is her trying out being without him (sorry to say).

we have to put ourselves in her shoes to realize how unexpected this was

I make the case that if this is such a shock and unexpected, then she must have felt their marriage was fine until he told her he was a CD. But he was CDing all the time that she, up until now, felt their marriage was doing well - all that has changed is she knows something she didn't know before. And that's enough to wreck the marriage that was doing well? Very weak.

Also, the deviance argument is antiquated at best. 30 years ago, that might fly but there's CD/TS/TG stuff depicted in films/TV/ - everywhere. It's hard to not have been at least exposed. Sure, society at large doesn't know what to make of it but it is gaining more mainstream acceptance.

honesty is the best policy

Don't start this stuff again. Isn't this whole thread about how this blew up in Giorgi's face? Others in the closet on here need to recognize that there is inherent risk in the "best policy".

TonyaV

07-31-2010, 09:43 AM

Good luck Georgi - you're in our prayer. :hugs:

Sherry-Stephanie

07-31-2010, 10:59 AM

Feel your pain Hon...been there and got the freakin T-shirt as well...

went though all of the above even to moving out and to Florida last summer about a year ago....

In time it worked out to where the dressing is fully supported and we've even started a business geared to us girls so the wife is fine with it...now if I can just get her to put back my make up when she uses my things would be great!!! She's also always grabbing my accessories..earrings etc...

Give it time go at her pace not yours and fingers crossed and see where it all goes....so work it out and some don't...that's just the way it works out....

Stephanie

Miss Misery

07-31-2010, 01:30 PM

Michelle,

I'll give you credit for your stance on the "when to tell" policy since you tried it and it failed AND you still advocate it. But how can you possibly know this:

Yes after telling my wife things didn't work out......But if I had told her early in our relationship things would have been a lot different.

Do you mean things "could have been different" or are you insinuating that she would have accepted you and your CDing thus saving your marriage, if only you'd told her sooner? That's unknowable and, I believe, highly unlikely.

Is this part of the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy? (For those not in the states, that's the US version of allowing gays in the military - we've got some real geniuses at the helm, don't we.)

AKAMichelle

07-31-2010, 03:17 PM

Michelle,

I'll give you credit for your stance on the "when to tell" policy since you tried it and it failed AND you still advocate it. But how can you possibly know this:

Do you mean things "could have been different" or are you insinuating that she would have accepted you and your CDing thus saving your marriage, if only you'd told her sooner? That's unknowable and, I believe, highly unlikely.

Is this part of the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy? (For those not in the states, that's the US version of allowing gays in the military - we've got some real geniuses at the helm, don't we.)

I think the answer would be that if she still didn't accept then we probably wouldn't have married. I have no regrets for my shortcomings because now I have 3 wonderful boys by her. But I expect a woman to accept me at least to a certain degree before I remarry one day. I made a mistake by not telling her before marriage but I didn't know the truth about cd'ing. I thought everyone like that transitioned. Plus it was sexual early in my life, so I had ever reason to believe that I could beat it. Since I had no desire at that time to transition. Being in my early 20's, high sex drive and a gorgeous GF was too much. When I married I had no desire at all to crossdress but that changed about one year later.

I don't think it is a mistake to tell your wife regardless of how long you have hid it from her. She has a right to know the truth. Besides if you live a lie all of your life, what did you miss by not being truthful with her. What is she going to think when she finds your stash after you die? She is going to think that she never knew you at all destroying much of what you had together. Memories are all that is important in life regarding the love ones you leave behind. Why taint the memories by them finding out about you after your gone with no explanation. The explanation that they figure out will be whatever they can understand about it. That explanation could be far worse than the truth but she will never know the truth because you failed to tell her.

I think the best policy is to tell early in the relationship before everyone would feel trapped finding out about cd'ing. But I figured out all of this too late for my marriage. To put my marriage in perspective, even without cd'ing I would still be heading into a divorce. There were too many things wrong and we had grown apart and were growing in opposite directions. So cd'ing didn't destroy my marriage. I tried to use it to save a failing marriage which didn't work.

Miss Misery

07-31-2010, 03:32 PM

Thanks for your candor, Michelle.

I made a mistake by not telling her before marriage but I didn't know the truth about cd'ing. I thought everyone like that transitioned. Plus it was sexual early in my life, so I had ever reason to believe that I could beat it. Since I had no desire at that time to transition. Being in my early 20's, high sex drive and a gorgeous GF was too much. When I married I had no desire at all to crossdress but that changed about one year later.

I think that this happens to a lot of us.

What is she going to think when she finds your stash after you die? She is going to think that she never knew you at all destroying much of what you had together.

Why would she think she never knew me? Is that all I am is a CD? No. She just didn't know THAT. Like she doesn't know that she farts in her sleep:o If you're worried about her jumping to conclusions then leave a written explanation with your stash.

Besides if you live a lie all of your life, what did you miss by not being truthful with her.

Ask Giorgi about this one.

I'm not advocating lie, lie, lie, at all. Just that coming out to whoever is no guaranteed nirvana. It carries great risk that some might not be willing to take at that time.

AKAMichelle

07-31-2010, 05:48 PM

Why would she think she never knew me? Is that all I am is a CD? No. She just didn't know THAT. Like she doesn't know that she farts in her sleep:o If you're worried about her jumping to conclusions then leave a written explanation with your stash.

Ask Giorgi about this one.

I'm not advocating lie, lie, lie, at all. Just that coming out to whoever is no guaranteed nirvana. It carries great risk that some might not be willing to take at that time.

People if they hide one thing they usually hide another. The more items which are found after the fact leaves people to draw their own conclusions. That is a problem for me since I don't want people drawing their own conclusions after I die. That's why I became an open book to my family. I quit hiding things from them. Even though I am going through a divorce, my wife is still my best friend. She has learned a lot about me in the last couple of years. Plus even with the divorce I am not hiding assets from her. She knows exactly where we stand and what she gets. I just can't live with her without fighting all of the time.

Telling a spouse usually has bad consequences for a long time at best. the longer you have waited the harder it is for them to accept us. Even though it would / could end my marriage, I would still tell. See I have done a lot of things which were wrong to my wife and she still loved me. She just couldn't accept this about me. My cd'ing just adds another level of fighting and I am so tired of fighting. I am at that age (50) where I want thing to settle down and get quieter now that my kids are leaving the nest. I have done my time raising my kids and I want to enjoy the rest of my life with someone special. Who loves completely and accepts everything about me. Someone that when I touch her hand it feels like magic. Somebody who compliments me (I don't need completing) and makes me want to be a better man / woman. :D

Phaedra

07-31-2010, 06:03 PM

........but do not ever denie yourself...............

All the strength, good luck!

Miss Misery

07-31-2010, 06:45 PM

Hi Michelle,

I know you are speaking from experience but there are some assumptions here that just aren't right.

People if they hide one thing they usually hide another.

Some people yes, other people no. That's just not fair to assume that if you hide being a CD then you're going to hide other stuff too.

I don't want people drawing their own conclusions after I die.

You will never know so what's the difference. We're all taking the big dirt nap eventually. Do you care if they're drawing conclusions about you right now (behind your back)?

the longer you have waited the harder it is for them to accept us.

I'd like to see that data. I doubt there's much of a relationship between the two.

You and I are the same age, Michelle, and I understand where your coming from with that part of your comment and wish you only the best in finding that someone special. My point is and has been that the whole CD/SO relationship, including tell/no tell and when/how, is so specific to each couple that it's nearly impossible to make one recommendation that will fit all situations. As someone trying to figure out how to make it work myself, I would love it if there was a secret recipe for success. It's just not so.

Reading your post, I really feel your anguish AND truly truly wish you the best!

MsJanessa

07-31-2010, 07:39 PM

just curious---you have been married 31 years and you are telling your wife now--you said it was because of some of the comments made by others in the forum (not me btw---although it is a good thing to let a potential SO know at the start of the relationship revealing it after 31 years might not be such a good idea---you really have to decide if you want to risk ending the marriage) You must have been quite good at hiding your xdressing if she had no idea after 3 decades that you like to cd---why did you initially decide to not to tell and why did you maintain the secret from her for all that time. Was it because you knew pretty much that she would have the reaction that she is having?

I know that in many marraiges of that long a duration, the couples stay togather not so much because they love the other person, but simply because they are afraid of change and don't want to have the upheaval of a divorce in thier life, so they put up with unhappiness of having to suppress who they are. When that kind of thing happens, it is natural for that partner to really start to resent the other. Do you think you can avoid that feeling if in fact you do stay in the marraige---it seems to me you are pretty entrenched in xdressing and it would be difficult, if not impossible to give it up, only now she is "onto you" and it will be harder to do it in secret--you should take some time, get your own counseling sessions, without your wife, and decide what you really want out of your life.

Kerrie Sifton

07-31-2010, 09:14 PM

After 29 years I spoke up with my spouse. It was triggered by her finding charges on a credit card at a corset shop. ( I had become more open in my addition of clothes.) And it did spook her. Why now, versus just hiding it again or denying it? Well after being on this site for a several years and pushed the boundaries from a simple closet cd to something more, I felt it was time to review my own sense of self and declare what I was experiencing. Self honesty was a starting point.

Are things smooth now? Not entirely, but they are progressing, and it takes time. The 29 year relationship just got a bit more complicated. My SO did some research too and found that no she does not care to go too far with the dressing, but that many of the things she likes about me are related to my feminine side.

So it remains complicated, but workable.
And the dialogue continues.
Each of us has to find our own way and each of our spouses will require lots of care.

Thus we wish Georgi all the best in the next stage.

AKAMichelle

07-31-2010, 10:12 PM

People if they hide one thing they usually hide another.

Some people yes, other people no. That's just not fair to assume that if you hide being a CD then you're going to hide other stuff too.

Notice that I said usually. Hiding and deceiving someone else becomes a habit. Especially when you do the hiding to prevent a fight. It is easy to justify that it is ok in this circumstance and the behavior becomes a habit.

You will never know so what's the difference. We're all taking the big dirt nap eventually. Do you care if they're drawing conclusions about you right now (behind your back)?

I personally care what legacy I leave for my kids and family. I want my loved ones to know me for who I really am.

I'd like to see that data. I doubt there's much of a relationship between the two.

What I am referring to here is that the longer you hide the more distrust and hurt there is to overcome when you finally do tell them. If you had been married for one year and then told your wife, it would be much different than if you told after 40 years of marriage. The longer that you are with a person the more connected you are and the harder to deal with something this big and difficult to understand.

You and I are the same age, Michelle, and I understand where your coming from with that part of your comment and wish you only the best in finding that someone special. My point is and has been that the whole CD/SO relationship, including tell/no tell and when/how, is so specific to each couple that it's nearly impossible to make one recommendation that will fit all situations. As someone trying to figure out how to make it work myself, I would love it if there was a secret recipe for success. It's just not so.

Reading your post, I really feel your anguish AND truly truly wish you the best!

There isn't a sure fire way to tell a SO. There are too many variables which can't be taken into account. Every couple is different. I think that is why Georgi failed so far. His wife was different from a lot of others and he did the best he could but it just wasn't enough.

Lorileah

07-31-2010, 10:24 PM

I agree with Michelle on this. I don't remember a thread here that ever said "I have been married a long time yesterday I told her and she is accepting 100%". The long term this is you have "baggage" that accumulates over the years. You have a mortgage, then you have children and then the children have school and then you have to pay college. All this time things get "comfortable" and the spouse thinks you are what she sees when in fact you are growing more and more uncomfortable with this secret. And yes crossdressing isn't your only secret. You start sneaking out or you start drinking or whatever. IF crossdressing was the only "lie" you have, you are a doing well. But even if that is the case the spouse will wonder what else you are hiding and when you have that slight suspicion it becomes a BIG suspicion and even if you are perfect in every way she will think there is something else.

I am all for telling and the earlier the better because you and she have a life. The longer you hide this the more entwined that life becomes. And the messier it is. Unfortunately the majority of people on these boards are over 40. The 20 somethings out there are buried where most of us were 20 -30 years ago with the idea that it will go away of their spouse will be OK with it later after the house is paid and the kids are grown and we are retired. What I don't get is the shock people have when they are married 20+ years and they drop this bomb wih no pretext. I don't get the "she should have guessed" and the "she could not believe it". These are the same reactions we see when a spouse is caught in an affair, or whatever secret life they think they have.

Miss Misery (interesting name BTW...don't you think?), Michelle is telling her experience. I wish it was an uncommon thing but the longer you wait the worse it is. There are no studies. No more than there are studies about hos often other things ruin marriages. But I can tell you that if you tell before the burden becomes huge the aftermath is lot less messy.

This whole thread isn't about the fact that someone came out. It, at least to me, was a shocked reaction that the wife reacted incorrectly. 30 years is a long time. As I said before it amazes me when there was no communication between either party that would have given an indication of how this would go. Never a hint about how she felt about men is skirts. Never a hint about her feelings of how a :man: should be. Both parties were real good at not showing how they felt on this matter for 30 years. I sure would not want to play poker with them because they don't show any reads. I still think writing a letter or email or anything like that is extremely impersonal. It prevents two way communication in real time. That is what I believe was the fatal flaw here. Not in the telling but in the HOW it was told. The longer you play the bluff the higher the stakes and the bigger the risk of losing the pot. When you fold early you will be able to play longer and more hands. Just basic poker philosophy here.

Terraforming

08-01-2010, 02:16 AM

Don't start this stuff again. Isn't this whole thread about how this blew up in Giorgi's face? Others in the closet on here need to recognize that there is inherent risk in the "best policy".

Thanks for quoting me out of context. I said that if Georgi's plans go awry and the urges to dress come back in full, then he should be honest with himself and not reject those urges. So in that case, I do hold that honesty is the best policy.

Katheryn

08-01-2010, 06:38 AM

With all of the violence and hate in the world, it is just sad that something as simple as a desire to dress a certain way can be taken so badly.
Juno

Yes, when I was coming to grips in the 80's with being a crossdresser a friend expressed her confusion over why it was all such a big deal. As she said at the time, "It's just clothes!"

Kate

But...I'm always surprised to read something like this:Surprised that anyone could consider a relationship wonderful or solid or perfect when one of the people in it is horrified, repulsed or otherwise turned off by who the other person really is.

As was pointed out to me when coming to grips with the fact that I couldn't not be a CD, that I couldn't bury my girl half in the back of some closet without the thumping of her high heeled feet on the closet wall disturbing my mental state, I owed my wife the truth. I, too, thought I had a wonderful marriage, but one brutal friend pointed out that I had a wonderful lie. It would only be a wonderful marriage if I came out to my wife and we were still together after all the smoke of the burning lies cleared. Now, almost two dozen years later, I have to say that friend was correct. We're still together and it is a wonderful marriage.

Kate

Lessons learned from us Ghosts of Coming Out Past:

- Come out to the one you love before you get married.

- Coming out after marriage will have consequences sometimes significant.

- Once you come out the closet door the locks and there is no going back in.

- Teleprompters are not suitable for use during your coming out discussion with your spouse.

Amen sistah! I wish I'd come out before my marriage, but then again, at that point in my life I hadn't truly come out to myself.

Kate

Rachelyorkcd

08-01-2010, 08:57 AM

99% of women will never understand the cross dressing fetish, so the answer is simple - dont tell them or if you cant keep a secret from them - forget about cross dressing.

Lorileah

08-01-2010, 10:18 AM

99% of women will never understand the cross dressing fetish, so the answer is simple - dont tell them or if you cant keep a secret from them - forget about cross dressing.

87% of all statistics are made up on the spot. Wow and I thought I was harsh with Georgi. You just deflated everyone on these boards. Women may have preconceived or learned notions about us. Women are intelligent beings who have the ability to learn and reason. Women are not concrete. Women care. I won't buy 99% will never understand. I think 99% can understand if things are explained in a calm and logical manner. Free from all the learned and reinforced fallacies that society has planted in the minds of people. What is the first thought many women have when their husband comes out? He wants to be a woman. Smooth that over and then it is he is gay. Both of these stereotypes are learned from media and ethno/theocentric teachings. Both are not true. When we get past those, then women can see that we are not monsters or perverts. And ask the GG;'s here you will see that they really really like us (usually...mostly). But the key is calm communication. Not throw it in your face take it or leave it. There is compromise and sharing.

And let's drop this fetish stuff already. That is the reason I first posted here and hurt Georgi's feelings (sorry girl). It is NOT a fetish. It is not some sexual thing in most cases. It is a part of the people here. It is NOT a psychological problem or a disease. It is no different than a person who "has" to wear a suit to work or they are not really doing the job as they think it should be done. It is no different that having to be a farmer, or teacher or doctor because that is how you feel you are. A fetish is by definition, something that is required to function sexually (when used in a sexual context...it is really an object that one uses for spiritual purposes to gain powers...which in this case may be true in a few cases also).

We have had society change it's views of race, sex, religion, ethnicity and have shown that the stereotypes that were perpetuated by society and especially media were just that stereotypes. We need to now teach society that we are not creeps or weirdos and we need to start doing it by not calling what we do a "hobby" or "fetish" or sexual perversion.

Shelly67

08-01-2010, 11:01 AM

99% of women will never understand the cross dressing fetish, so the answer is simple - dont tell them or if you cant keep a secret from them - forget about cross dressing.

And pubic hair is Peter Rabbits cousin right ??

ReineD

08-01-2010, 11:05 AM

Referring to Lorileah's entire post #112

:yt: Very well said, Lorileah. :clap: :)

AKAMichelle

08-01-2010, 02:20 PM

I have found that women can understand it but not all can accept. I think the key to acceptance is telling them early enough that they don't feel trapped in the marriage and giving them time to work through it. It is a little hard at first, but it can be done.

Plus cd'ing may be a fetish to some, but for many it is not. I started out thinking that cd'ing was more like a fetish only to find out at 50 that it is nowhere near the definition. Being TG is a moving target which defies labels. Every person is different and they are every changing. That is what makes acceptance so difficult without being 100% honest and lots and lots of talking.

08-01-2010, 05:30 PM

I think the key to acceptance is telling them early enough that they don't feel trapped in the marriage and giving them time to work through it.Seems to me though, that if someone is going to become physically ill at the thought or idea of their husband in a frock, they are going to have that reaction whenever you tell them. "Tell early, tell often," is good advice, but the other person's preconceived notions are what they are.

And if they have preconceived notions that are that utterly negative, when all else is said and done (therapy, time, etc., etc) the odds that you are going to be left with a great relationship seem slim to me.

Sorry, I just can't get over the puking thing. That takes this into a whole other realm beyond the typical negative reaction. Every time I see this subject I think, "Oh, there's the puking thread."

Shadeauxmarie

08-01-2010, 10:59 PM

This is true for everyone. I can't imagine living a life, feeling I could not disclose who I am to the people I love.

Well, how many people on here have told everyone they love at the same time? It appears to me, Georgi told her wife when she was comfortable. Maybe she didn't understand the complete picture for years. I know I thought for years (20) I was the only guy who got sexual pleasure from wearing women's clothes. How do you tell your spouse 30 years ago? Many of you are judging Georgi on TODAY'S morals. 30 years ago was different. No internet, back then.

People HAVE hidden many things from their spouses. Some because they loved them. When my wife asks my opinion of how she looks, I always say "Great." If you had a one noght stand on a business trip, would you absolutely tell your spouse even though you know it would ruin your marriage? Even though you knew it would NEVER happen again?

The people here on this forum have given largely good advice. It just seems so sanctimonious on this thread. Please give Georgi credit where credit is due. She told her spouse in hopes of a deeper relationship knowing the potential price. She could have continued as she had for the previous 30 years.

Live long and prosper Georgi.

Lorileah

08-01-2010, 11:48 PM

Totally different thing telling your spouse she looks good (which honestly if she didn't you should probably tell her the problem before she goes out if the dress is too tight, short, ripped, wrong color whatever...anyway so she won't be looked at strange all night.) and having an affair and comparing that to keeping crossdressing a secret. I try very hard to not say things like that here because it puts dressing in the same category as cheating. It isn't the same. The thing here is that the majority of people who dress and keep it a secret "to protect their spouse (from????)" are really not doing anyone a favor by staying hidden. I keep talking investment because I think most people on here understand at least simple economics. You tend to build up a nest egg through life (hopefully) that your spouse and you worked for. She has half that. Now let's take that as emotional value. The longer you keep it a secret the more emotional equity your spouse has. Then after 20-30 years you say "Hey you know that account we have been adding to? Well I have not put as much into it as you have because I didn't think you should have my total emotional attention." How should she react? You can't really cash that in but she had ideas of how life would be. If you tell her early (if not before marriage at least before you get too deep in attachments) they can find someone who fills that need if she deems it necessary. Some will say "that's cool but we have to set limits" and some will say "So what? it isn't important". Some will say "I can't handle that". But they can go on and so can you.

It doesn't make it go away if you keep an affair hidden and even if you can get away with it, you are damaging that equity. we can argue "morals" all day. But this whole thing is not about affairs, stealing money, drinking too much, being a drug addict, or any illegal activity you want to compare to. It is about who you are, inside and although this is now taking this thread off track, it would behoove us to quit thinking we are a) criminals or b) some sort of psychological or theological misfit. As long as we have these feelings about ourselves how can we bemoan how things go when we come out? In the case of this thread it wasn't the telling so much as the not telling for so long. If Georgi had not had feelings that she was "wrong" to dress, she could have come out earlier. Too late for Georgi but not too late for the current generation. Let's decriminalize ourselves and maybe the rest of the world can see we are not bad people.

AKAMichelle

08-02-2010, 12:21 AM

Well, how many people on here have told everyone they love at the same time? It appears to me, Georgi told her wife when she was comfortable. Maybe she didn't understand the complete picture for years. I know I thought for years (20) I was the only guy who got sexual pleasure from wearing women's clothes. How do you tell your spouse 30 years ago? Many of you are judging Georgi on TODAY'S morals. 30 years ago was different. No internet, back then.

People HAVE hidden many things from their spouses. Some because they loved them. When my wife asks my opinion of how she looks, I always say "Great." If you had a one noght stand on a business trip, would you absolutely tell your spouse even though you know it would ruin your marriage? Even though you knew it would NEVER happen again?

The people here on this forum have given largely good advice. It just seems so sanctimonious on this thread. Please give Georgi credit where credit is due. She told her spouse in hopes of a deeper relationship knowing the potential price. She could have continued as she had for the previous 30 years.

Live long and prosper Georgi.

I think I have perspective on the subject that you are talking about. Nobody is judging Georgi for not telling 30 years ago. I didn't tell and I had the same information as Georgi. Next to nothing information wise. I made a mistake just like Georgi by not telling, but hindsight is always 20/20. Now the hard part when you didn't tell originally is when to tell now. That is a tough one. And even when you do tell, it isn't pretty. All of the stars don't align and heavens break out into song. In fact it is usually hell on earth for a while.

Now I am giving Georgi credit for trying and I hope everything works out for her. I told my wife for many of the same reasons as her. Tired of lying to my wife and wanting to get my marriage back on track and move it towards a deeper relationship. It didn't work for me and so far it hasn't for Georgi. Just because telling may result in a problems for awhile doesn't mean that you shouldn't tell your spouse. But that decision is up to each of us. No one can second guess the decision we make.

As for the one night stand, that too unfortunately I understand about. I made a lot of mistakes while married. Some 15 years ago now, I did have an affair which my wife never found out about. I didn't tell her because I didn't want to hurt her, but it did its damage to me. I guess that is fair since it was my fault. I am not advocating telling your wife everything especially if it won't affect her any further. but that just isn't the case with cd'ing. CD'ing is an ongoing thing. It is a deeper part of you than a one night stand would ever be. So in that case cd'ing must be told or you are cheating your marriage of the trust and honesty that it deserves.

ReineD

08-02-2010, 12:24 AM

Well, how many people on here have told everyone they love at the same time?

You took my quote out of context. I was saying that I would not be able to hide who I am from my loved ones (in Georgi's specific case, it is her spouse) for so many years. I was saying that yes, there is some value in telling the truth for the spouse, but the benefit is mainly for the CD, so that she can be all that she is. I used "loved ones" as a general term. Of course you don't tell your entire family all at once, but it does begin with a spouse. And not after 30 years.

I also said that it is quite a different matter if it is not a gender ID issue, if it is a sexual thing such as it was in your case 30 years ago.

In Georgi's case it may not be just a fetish. My point was that she musn't blame the forum for advocating honesty. She would not have told her wife unless she felt the need to do so. We all know from reading threads here that things come to a head eventually, and CDs do tell because they feel they can no longer hide. And Georgi risks continuing to suffer even more if she tells her wife that the CDing is no longer a part of who she is. But, this is moot if for Georgi, it is indeed a sexual fetish and not a question of gender ID. Georgi hasn't clarified this for us yet, however.

If you had a one noght stand on a business trip, would you absolutely tell your spouse even though you know it would ruin your marriage?

If my relationship had deteriorated to the point where I followed through with infidelity, then I would have to tell my spouse. This would be a huge red flag indicating that we had issues needing to be addressed.

The people here on this forum have given largely good advice. It just seems so sanctimonious on this thread.

Everyone is doing the best they can to help Georgi, according to their own experiences. Advice is not sanctimonious just because it disagrees with yours.

tammygirl79

08-02-2010, 12:27 AM

All I can say is that I am so sorry to hear what you are going through! My thoughts and my heart go out to you two, and I wish you all the best in getting through this!

Satrana

08-02-2010, 03:44 AM

This whole thread isn't about the fact that someone came out. It, at least to me, was a shocked reaction that the wife reacted incorrectly.
I don't agree that is the issue. Shocked reactions are the norm and being physically ill is not that uncommon either.

Georgi posted his story as a warning. Georgi knew his wife, knew she would not accept his CDing and so he was adamant that he would never tell her. They have had a happy marriage for 31 years because of this arrangement.

Then he found this forum and entered into a pink fog. No doubt envious of others' open relationships and reacting to posts about honesty he put aside what he knew and dreamed of a different future. His wife's reaction has snapped him out of his pink fog. Now he is struggling to save his relationship and regretting he ever found this forum.

The point is that there are people in this world who value happiness and normalcy more than total honesty. There are GGs on this forum who have stated that they wished their SOs had never informed them about the CDing so that they could have continued living in blissful ignorance.

Life often sucks and people routinely have to make significant compromises and sacrifices chasing after happiness. Not telling about one's CDing, especially if it is primarily sexually orientated, is a sacrifice many are willing to make in exchange for a happy life.

We should not forget that total honesty is a idealistic notion. Most of us will chase after it regardless but for others hiding something from their SO is the best choice.

If there was a Matrix moment where people were asked to choose between the red or blue pill representing total honesty or blissful happiness, I think you would be surprised how many people would not hesitate to swallow the blissful happiness pill. The original Matrix movie was built around the very notion that people were more content being submerged in banal normalcy than facing the harshness of reality.

Lorileah

08-02-2010, 10:02 AM

I don't agree that is the issue. Shocked reactions are the norm and being physically ill is not that uncommon either.

I meant to say that Georgi and some others here thought she cated incorrectlt. My bad. She reacted as she did because it was how she felt at the time.

Georgi posted his story as a warning. Georgi knew his wife, knew she would not accept his CDing and so he was adamant that he would never tell her. They have had a happy marriage for 31 years because of this arrangement.[

One could argue that point. If Georgi was happy then she would not have tried and change things. Let's just say they had a comfortable marriage.

The point is that there are people in this world who value happiness and normalcy more than total honesty.

Arrrgggghh!!!! two words there that really don't work well. "Normalcy" defines what? Average? What you are told you should be? The middle of the bell curve? and "total" honesty as an antithesis. No one is totally honest. It is choosing what to say and when to say it

In that manner I agree that people will choose ignorance and the illusion of happiness if given a choice. But now Georgi has chosen to think that they can go back to ignorance and find happiness. Is it better to fore go your own happiness for another? Philosphical question in deed. Is making others happy better than making yourself happy? And if you are unhappy doesn't that transmit to others around you and make them less happy? And in the end, do you get points for making more people happy and allowing yourself to be miserable. There are no correct answers here. But I know men who worked their whole lives to make their spouse and children happy and died sour grumpy young men. Would they have been the same if they had pursued more happiness for them? And when they die or leave the family when they are in their 40's or 50's are the ones left behind happy? Whole can of worms isn't it?

Kaitlyn Michele

08-02-2010, 10:31 AM

l. The original Matrix movie was built around the very notion that people were more content being submerged in banal normalcy than facing the harshness of reality.

and millions and millions of people cheered on the the HERO of the story as he stood to fight for honesty...jeez....

Paisley GG

08-02-2010, 11:56 AM

I just want to put in my two cents in for the wife. For good or for bad, she is entitled to her reaction...it was an instantaneous response to something that just sent her world off kilter.

We all know there is a lot of closed minded folk out there, and hopefully it will be less so in future for all sorts of folk.

However, she has spent 30 years thinking of her spouse a certain way and holding a certain view of the rest of the world. All of a sudden nothing is as it seems...one of those disorientating times.

All we know about her is that she is quite conservative in her thinking and she pukes when receiving shocking news...We can speculate what it means and maybe we might be right but at this point it is story we tell ourselves. The point is she may be a lovely women who loves her family tries to be a decent human being. Enough so that Georgi has been reasonably happy to be in a relationship with her.

It is a difficult situation for all the parties involved...From what Georgi has said here he sounds like a decent person and I do hope him and his wife are able to work through this....I wish them both my best!

Kate Simmons

08-02-2010, 01:37 PM

Good grief. This is like kicking a dead horse. I think Georgi is long gone my friends.

Shananigans

08-02-2010, 01:47 PM

Something we are all missing here.

To the OP.

STOP TREATING IT LIKE SOME G.D. DISEASE!!!

Stop acting like what you are doing is wrong. Hiding it as long as you did was very wrong, but there is nothing to be done about that.

But, and I mean this, don't go to counseling to reinforce quitting.

YOU ARE DOING NOTHING WRONG.

As far as your wife is concerned, you acting like what you are doing is wrong just reinforces HER not liking it. It justifies an irrational reaction (and wanting to cut off your marriage just because of this is highly irrational.)

You have dumped a tremendous load onto her and it is going to take a long time for her to come to grips, if she can.

Now, and I may take some flack for this, but this is how I see this, especially in this day and age.

If she is unable to come to grips with what you do, then it is no longer YOUR FAULT, it is a short coming of her own.

How strong was your relationship before you did this, were there any other issues that were between you two?

But for the love of Pete stop behaving like what you are doing is something that must be corrected, that only weakens and already weak position.

BOTH OF YOU get to counseling, with someone that has dealt with this situation before. Don't go to any faith based stuff either, unless they are a more modern place that acknowledges people were created in many moulds.

Ditto to that! I can see why she might need to think about some things...but, really?? Throwing up? Not letting you touch her? Seriously? I understand she might be thinking, "What else is he hiding? Why is this happening? Is it something I did?" But, really... Throwing up? I just can't get past that.

Another thing...everyone is knocking the letter. I am not a big "feelings" person. It is my absolute NIGHTMARE to sit down and talk about how I am feeling. I'm just never good at saying what I mean. I am much better at writing it. I know my SO works about the same. This doesn't mean that we don't talk things out, but if you are having trouble saying things that need to be said, writing is a perfectly appropriate option.

I really do wish you all of the best in the world. I hope that she gives this serious thought before ruining the marriage. If I were you, I would stress the fact that I had Always been a crossdresser, but I couldn't come to terms with it. That I was still the man that she married and that I still loved her very, very much. But, that I had to be honest with her and honest with myself. Stress the fact that you are the same person that you have always been.

Secondly, you both need to go to a counselor. Not for the purpose of you quitting, but for the purpose that it is just f*cking stupid to let this come between your marriage.

Miss Misery

08-02-2010, 01:56 PM

I think Georgi is long gone my friends.

Figuratively or literally?

.... she has spent 30 years thinking of her spouse a certain way and holding a certain view of the rest of the world. All of a sudden nothing is as it seems...one of those disorientating times.

I'm sorry Paisley but this "world shattering" stuff is too much drama as far as I'm concerned. When you're married for 20 - 30 yrs, you grow with each other (or are headed for divorce by now) to accept and deal with those aspects of your partners personality that you conflict with. The idea that a single aspect, like Cding could derail everything your marriage was built on shows that it was never on stable ground to begin with. To steal from Lorileah's comment comparing a long marriage to equity built up - the value of that equity IS the ability to accept and understand your partner's shortcomings and continue to love him/her ..... If you can't do that, then you never had any equity built up in the first place.

Denise,

As far as kicking a dead horse goes, this discussion has evolved into something bigger than Giorgi's particular situation and now is more about the SO/CD realtionship/why some accept and others do not/deceit .... Something that many looking tothis site want to read and or discuss. If it's kicking a dead horse then you can stop kicking anytime you want.

Paisley GG

08-02-2010, 02:56 PM

I would agree that it is too much drama...I know that I would not react that way myself...but as I suggested we really do not know anything about Georgi's wife except for those couple things....based on that info, I did make an assumption that this is pretty dramatic stuff for her.

I think it is oversimplifying by referring to cd'ing as being a single aspect. It seems to mean more than one thing to most of you who are cd'ers from what I have read and it also seems to impact more than one aspect of your lives from what I also read...so is it unfair not to allow the same for the partner?

I am sure that Georgi and wife have had all sorts of issues serious and toothpaste to work through during the course of their marriage. Time will tell if they have built enough tools, skills and love to survive and even thrive through this difficult period for them.

Figuratively or literally?
I'm sorry Paisley but this "world shattering" stuff is too much drama as far as I'm concerned. When you're married for 20 - 30 yrs, you grow with each other (or are headed for divorce by now) to accept and deal with those aspects of your partners personality that you conflict with. The idea that a single aspect, like Cding could derail everything your marriage was built on shows that it was never on stable ground to begin with. To steal from Lorileah's comment comparing a long marriage to equity built up - the value of that equity IS the ability to accept and understand your partner's shortcomings and continue to love him/her ..... If you can't do that, then you never had any equity built up in the first place.

ReineD

08-02-2010, 02:59 PM

Good grief. This is like kicking a dead horse. I think Georgi is long gone my friends.

True, but this thread is also a discussion about the merits of telling vs. not, which is a concern for many members here.

It's a good and necessary discussion, IMO. :)

Shelly67

08-02-2010, 03:05 PM

Perhaps it was the straw that broke the camels back ? Maybe the people concerned share an unstable history .
We all react so differently in times of stress and emotional shock . One things clear tho - in times of such unsettled moments , I think it's a mans duty to care for his wife ... in every way possible including bare faced honesty .....
Because in the end ..... thats all we have left .

JulieC

08-02-2010, 05:51 PM

I thought I'd share this with those who were considering telling their SOs because one of the major reasons I finally caved in and told her was the constant counseling of the 'tell her, tell her' crowd on this forum. I thought it appropriate to hear an opposing viewpoint.

I don't see it as an opposite viewpoint at all.

In the best of worlds, a crossdresser would have told a prospective wife before getting engaged. Next best is after being engaged. Then it's a big fall down to telling after being married. Then even bigger fall down after having kids. About the worst case scenario is telling when you're married with young children at home. These are all different phases to reveal your true self to your spouse.

Not telling is another way to reveal to your spouse. CDers can choose to do this. In so doing, they risk discovery by accident such as being walked in upon, discovery of femme clothes stash, discovery of pictures on the computer, posts to this forum in the browser cache, accidents in not fully removing makeup, etc. Over decades of marriage, there's a very high chance of wives finding out in these ways. There's also discovery after you're dead. On average, women live longer than men. On average, men marry women younger than themselves. Do the math; on average, most wives outlive their husbands. Eventually, your stash would be found by her and she'd be left with zillions of questions that could never be answered after you're dead.

So, while telling your wife has had severely negative outcomes, imagine what NOT telling her would have wrought. You might have been able to keep the secret until you died, but then she would probably find out anyway...and not be able to get answers. Cruel, in the least.

There's no good answers, except telling your girlfriend before you ask her to marry you. But, the vast, vast majority of CDers lack the self acceptance at younger ages to be able to tell anyone, much less a potential future wife.

The choice you made isn't an opposite viewpoint. The situation you're in now finds you wishing you hadn't told her. But, there's seriously negative outcomes to not telling her as well. Ultimately, it could have been one of the most selfish acts you could have committed, and made her a victim in the process.

Many closeted cd'ers were berated, I believe unfairly, for not telling their SOs and were pushed into believing that the only road to happiness was to free the inner woman and tell the truth.

Telling your spouse isn't a path to happiness. Nobody can tell you what the best thing to do is. But, I will gladly say that I'm one who strongly believes in telling. That's strongly based on personal experience with several people, and from years of experience watching posters on this forum, negative results included. That said, I'd never advise anyone on any action in this regard if they're married with young kids at home.

Joint counseling is indeed my goal. I've promised to see a counselor to help me maintain my giving up of cd'ing. My hope is that I can convince my wife that she can benefit from going to see the counselor with me.

It's not uncommon to see wives in this situation thinking the problem isn't theirs, it's their weird husbands who want to dress up in women's clothes. This of course is the wrong approach. When you marry someone, your spouse may have a particular issue, problem, what have you. That becomes you problem by definition. If the two of you can't work towards resolution of whatever problem, there will continue to be a problem. One of you 'fixing' it alone will not fix it.

Not that CDing can be fixed...

I've chosen to give myself a male identity on this forum to help guide myself in trying to stick to my plan of submerging the crossdressing.

I hope for your sake that it works. Others have told you it won't work, and I agree. But, I say that in the hopes that you continue to understand you're up against severe odds. You're going to have to muster every bit of yourself.

Folks, I'm already in a place where I'm going to be unhappy about something. Losing my wife of 31 years will kill me. I've sat in the dark just trying to imagine living the rest of my life (I'm only 57) without her and THAT is what depresses the hell out of me.

None of us are in your shoes. None of us can tell you what the right answer is. That must come from you. All we can convey to you is advice based on our experiences. I doubt anybody here wants to tear you down.

You're in an incredibly bad situation. Getting professional help is a must in my opinion. I wish your wife would get onboard with that, but it's not going to happen. Even so, the professional counseling will help you.

A point I will make again to several who have said 'let her go'. ... If we split up it's going to be because she puls herself out of my grasp.

If you lose her, you can choose to live on. I know you can not imagine life without her. Nobody can help you see a new day past this, if she decides to leave you. You have to see it yourself. I will say it's there though. If this comes to pass, a professional counselor can help you along that path.

Maybe later the philosophical discussion of tell/don't tell can proceed. I'm sure it's too early in my story to even know the full story as mine has a long ways to go to finish playing out.

None of our stories are ended until our own lives are ended. Even for those of us who have lost our wives to death. I have an accepting wife, but my story continues on. I don't know what tomorrow holds. I don't know what ten years from now holds. Will she suddenly invert (she did once, a long time ago)? Will she grow tired of having a 'husband' that isn't 100% male, and suddenly get an urge for a 'real' man in her life? I don't know. Nobody knows those answers. Nobody knows your answers.

All we can do is go with the best information we have available to us at the time we make decisions. There isn't any 'fixing' that, and there isn't any 'wrong' in making the best decision we can with the best information we have available. That is what you did, and there was nothing 'wrong' with that, or anything that needs to be 'fixed'.

Personally, in as much as I know your situation, I think you made a fantastic decision. There's massive negative consequences to it. I do not dispute that in any respect. But, given her reaction to you telling her, if she'd found out via other means the reaction she would have had would have been several times, if not an order of magnitude, worse. The chances that you could maintain the secrecy forever were slim, at best. All it takes is one screw up. You're human.

I took one hell of a lot of courage to tell her. Now it is going to take one hell of a lot of courage to continue walking the path you're on.

Shelly67

08-02-2010, 06:27 PM

Julie - I take my hat off to you .
Spot on , in every sense . :hugs:

TorieGG

08-02-2010, 08:57 PM

From the viewpoint of someone on the other side- my husband told me after 25 years of marriage-a month is NOT enough time to expect her to be accepting of the situation. It's a slow process for most of us- I'm still not completely comfortable after almost a year. You will need to be patient if you want things to work out. Good Luck

Shadeauxmarie

08-02-2010, 09:37 PM

To tell or not to tell – that is the question:
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune,
Or to take arms against a sea of troubles
And, by opposing, end them.

Bardon me.

Rachel Morley

08-02-2010, 09:59 PM

Megan70

08-02-2010, 10:01 PM

Georgi, after over 3500 hits(views) and 134 replies( to date) I cannot remember such a thread provoking such an immediate and varied response from your sisters here. I am taking the role of observer and neutral in this but I gotta tell you , this thread is creating alot of buzz, mainly out of empathy for you that so many of us feel bad for you to be in your situation, Last Saturday 2 other girls from this forum met for the first time at a social gathering with other t-girls at a friendly bar in our city and part of the water cooler girl talk that night was discussing your thread among our crowd, including some very supporting wives who were with us that night.
I hope if anything that this shows you Georgi that love and concern , empathy,caring and even yes some body shaking to listen, will show how much people here care about you and your situation. Some of these posts are extremely long with well meaning advice, take it or leave it, but I do hope that this thread continues with more concern and compassion that it shows as of now. I wish you well in this situation and
God Bless you and your Wife.... things WILL be alright.:)

Megan

Satrana

08-03-2010, 04:52 AM

the ability to accept and understand your partner's shortcomings and continue to love him/her ..... If you can't do that, then you never had any equity built up in the first place.

It is a good observation and is probably shares top billing with how open or closed minded your partner is.

I think we all know that some long term relationships are no longer based on romantic love but on a comfortable friendship and shared history where both partners are too scared to consider whether it is in their best interests to stay together. A shock like this would be a wake-up call to the wife who would now seriously consider the value of the relationship to her.

Close minded people usually remain so irregardless of the arguments and any CD married to one is basically screwed. But some closed minded partners have opened their eyes and learned to be accepting and I would guess that is because there was equity left in the relationship. The wife could see the value to her remaining and so had the motivation to educate herself and change her values.

a month is NOT enough time to expect her to be accepting of the situation. Definitely not accepting of the situation in such a short time but a month is more than long enough to have gotten over the shock and begun to ask questions, read information and have conversations with her husband. The journey to acceptance can take a long time, the question is whether the wife wants to begin that journey.

KathyC

08-03-2010, 06:09 AM

Sorry to hear that..since I am a noob, I really don't know what to say.
I guess the kind of clothes you were CDing on were the kind you like to see your wife wearing right? Wait until everything cool down a bit, and find a chance to tell her that.
I used to date a girl when i was living in the States, I walked into Ann Taylor a few times and bought some clothes for her (the sales girls thought I was into CDing at that time given me dirty look somehow, but thanksful for the greens I paid).
The clothes were not her style, so I don't know she gave them away or gabbage them. We all men do have fantasy about how the women dress, but don't forget to ask yourself; do you dress lousy infront of her?
Good luck!!

Miss Tanya

08-03-2010, 07:16 AM

I see many posts on here berating the wife for "irrational" puking, so I just thought I'd share my experience. I was married for six years after dating my wife for four years (ten total) when my wife found my stash of clothes. Since then, she has come to almost 100% acceptance, she actually seems to like the crossdressing more and more. My wife is a lovely, modern, rational, open-minded woman - but she puked too. She's on forums like this as well, and when you read about initial GG reactions, they are usually in shock and don't have a lot of control over their first responses. The reality of the situation usually hits them a bit later.

According to my wife, she puked because she simply did not know how to process the information. The man she thought she knew better than herself turned out to be a fantastic liar, and I wasn't just a CDer lying to his wife, it was me, lying to her. Her life took a surreal and highly unexpected turn, she has a sensitive stomach, so her reaction was to vomit.

I can only imagine what goes through the mind of a more traditional woman who has been lied to for over 31 years. Granted, after reading these posts, it is clear that she has big problems with CDing and probably a lot of ignorance about it. But I cannot imagine judging the response of any spouse who has been lied to for 31 years.

KathyC

08-03-2010, 07:40 AM

+1
I agree! in this modern time it takes no lies about CDing or cosplay.
I told some of my young coworkers when I was buying makeups from them about my purposes, they all knew i am not gay & just try to have fun.
The minority or numbers of CDers make all of us group togather in a little circle (Sisters from the 50s' & up todate).
Lucky to be still young in these days.will see more revolution.
Elderly sisters will have a better time in this time also.

melissacd

08-04-2010, 07:59 AM

This thread seems to have really touched a nerve with many members based on the number and quality of the responses. I think that this is a subject/experience that so many of us can relate to. Some of us got through it with relationships that are better, some got through it with relationships that died, some got through it somewhere in the middle, some won't even try and go through it and would rather continue to hide it and some tried to hide it and were caught, some tired to hide it and found that they could no longer do so and felt the cost of hiding it had become far too high.

We all have unique journey's, choices, outcomes. For me I know that the dialog, both privately and in these types of forums did one important thing, they helped me think through who I was, who I am and who I wanted to be. These discussions helped me see things that I either could not or did not want to see, things that kept me in a state of complete unhappiness and through those insights I was able to synthesize my own path. So while we may agree or disagree with specific things said here I think that we can all agree that the saying of any and all of these things helps us gain insights and grow and hoepfully move forward in our lives to a happier and more fulfilling place - I know that that has been my experience.

Melissa

Georgi

08-06-2010, 10:35 AM

Wow, thanks to all for the support and kind words and suggestions. That's one of the things I really like about this forum - acceptance and positive thinking.

Georgi - it's pronounced gay-or-ghee, as in the Russian form of the male name for George. Therefore when you refer to me in the third person, it's 'he' not 'she'. Not upset with anyone, just pointing out that my personae on this board is male, help me by reinforcing that. That's part of my commitment to my wife, and a subject that's already been discussed a hundred different ways.

I did have an appointment for the wife with a counselor I was seeing, but the darn counselor had to go have a root canal and had to cancel. Then trying to get the wife to reschedule has been a real uphill battle. She continues to think it's my problem and she shouldn't be required to have to do anything. Yesterday I said, "Fine, when you can take you clothes off in front of me and let me run my hands over every square inch of your body in broad daylight, then I'll agree there is no problem." She said nothing but I later found out she did call and make an appointment, albeit three weeks in the future. Hey, it's progress.

I've told her now that I'm tired of pushing and that I'm sorry I've pushed so hard, and the next move is up to her. So I'm backing down the dialogue and the pressure with her even more than what I thought was fairly gentle recently, and the ball is in her court.

As everyone has said multiple times and I fully understand and agree, this is going to take time. We go about our daily business and talk about everything but the elephant in the room and all is good, so maybe I'll survive until something can move forward here.

Thanks to all,
Georgi

Miss Misery

08-06-2010, 11:37 AM

Giorgi,

I am so glad to hear that you feel things are getting better -even just a little better.

It seems to be a fine line when "working through" the coming out process between talking/discussing the CD issue and being perceived as "obsessing" about it. So, I think you might be taking the right approach (although you're the only one who can decide that for sure) in presenting your case with some valid options and then backing off, continuing a sense of normalcy in day to day life, and giving your wife some "room" to think about the options. As you said, the ball is in her court.

Out of curiosity, does the counselor have any experience with CD/TS issues in a marriage? It might be good to make sure that whoever you use has at least some familiarity with crossdressing behavior.

Best of luck.

Georgi

08-06-2010, 02:57 PM

Out of curiosity, does the counselor have any experience with CD/TS issues in a marriage? It might be good to make sure that whoever you use has at least some familiarity with crossdressing behavior.

In my post I said "I was seeing", I've seen this counsellor once, so however the verb should be expressed, so be it. I'm waiting to see her again until after my wife sees her at least once to avoid the perception that I am 'poisoning the well' and turning the counsellor any more toward me and against my wife than my wife might already perceived to be the case. If my wife meets with her, and if she agrees this counsellor is acceptable for counselling on both CD issues for her and joint marital issues for us, then I'll resume sessions with her. Or if she says no, we'll find another counsellor, then I'm also free to resume with this one.

In either case, I selected this counsellor because she listed 'Gender Identity' as one of her specialties on her web page. When I met with her in our initial session she was not at all unfriendly to the crossdressing discussion. How she'll work out as a counsellor trying to put a marriage back together rent asunder by crossdressing I guess time will tell.

Thx,
Georgi

Miss Tanya

08-06-2010, 05:48 PM

Hi Georgi,

I am glad you are taking baby steps in the right direction. My wife has been reading these posts with great interest and she wanted me to tell you to be as patient and contrite as possible.

Her advice (She'll take it from here): Whether or not your wife ever accepts you, or whether or not you are able to stop CDing, you really hurt her with your revelation. Treat her extra nice (flowers and jewelry never hurt) to remind her why she really married you in the first place. Show her by your actions and your words that you are ultimately the same guy she was in love with before this revelation, and reassure her her happiness is your very first priority. You wife feels lied to and betrayed, and ultimately disrepected. She may even now see you as "the pervert guy." Even if she forgives you, trust and anger issues are bound to take their course. Always be very honest and patient.

You need to repair your image and you can actually take this opportunity to strengthen your marriage. Yes, you lied to her for a very long time, but also, you've now trusted her with your deepest, most personal secret. (This will be an even stronger point if you've never told anyone else). You can remind her why you told her (not just out of guilt) because she is your very best friend. Every single day until you see the therapist, give her a new, deeply personal compliment to remind her why she's the greatest woman you've ever met, and how fortunate you are to be married to her. Tell her how sexy and feminine she is. Try acting the way you did when you first met her and really wanted that first date. I don't care what the circumstances are, women love to be wooed. Women just want to be loved. So thank her for taking these steps with you and being willing to work this out. Extra love and care may encourage your wife to work through this situation with you. Remind her every day of the love that is in your heart, and respect all of the feelings she expresses.

:love:

(Me again) - GOOD LUCK!!!!

Presh GG

08-08-2010, 12:54 AM

Georgi,

Please tell me what the devil "her stripping and allowing you to paw her all over" end quote has to do with the elephant in the room?

That struck me as a very suspect statement. Is this to show you she's just A-OK or are you playing "man" for us ?

Until this you had my support , now I'm not so sure.

It's been a MONTH after 35 years of your hideing ,But boy SHE'S really unreasonable...:brolleyes:

Nope, I can't give you my approval, so far you've come off as the most self centered in the land.

MY OPINION,
Presh GG

Georgi

08-08-2010, 10:30 AM

Please tell me what the devil "her stripping and allowing you to paw her all over" end quote has to do with the elephant in the room?

I apologize if that came off as sexist or self-centered. You would have to know that prior to my revelation, we had a wonderfully open and playful sex life, with candlelit rooms or playing around on the rug in front of the fireplace (seriously). And the original comment was not about 'stripping and pawing', but was intended to be interpreted as 'mutual undressing and caressing' even though I did not use those words.

Now she won't be seen naked in front of me , and plainly says she feels uncomfortable just being naked in front of me, let alone letting me touch her naked. It's only been in the last week that I've gotten to hold her in a fully-clothed hug in daylight, and even then I can't squeeze too tightly before she starts pulling back. Her comment is that she wonders what's going on inside my head when I see her naked body, am I imagining myself as a woman?

So, my original comment to her about stripping in front of me was more about our being able to return to our original state of openness than it was about any absolute state of sexist behaviour.

Thx,
Georgi

AKAMichelle

08-08-2010, 01:21 PM

Her comment is that she wonders what's going on inside my head when I see her naked body, am I imagining myself as a woman?

I understand that comment all too well. When I told my wife about cd'ing the comment above had to do with imagining myself as the woman during sex. Needless to say my marriage didn't survive. The cause of death wasn't cd'ing. Cd'ing was only a contributing factor to a marriage which was suffereing big time.

I hope your marriage is able to survive. I think the secret to telling a spouse is whether or not you have built an adequate foundation to deal with the tough times. My marriage had a lot of cracks and it couldn't hold up with the weight of one more thing.

Gillian

08-08-2010, 01:40 PM

I have a similar kind of post going myself but my wife in my case has suspected for a Looooonnnnggg time! and only caught me partially dressed recently, she has gone through similar rejection of me and we currently have a semi-peace where we live parallel lives in truth not much different to the time before the incident and actually much easier on me as now she knows and knows exactly what I will do when she is at work. Do NOT mistake that with acceptance she does in NO WAY approve and would give anything for it to have been a bad dream but it isn't.

I cannot stop this compulsion need addiction call it what it seems to you as I truly do not know what to class my crossdressing as, and that is the complete truth!

I have no idea what I am going to do but after some good advice from here I think my next phase is to try and see if I can set some ground rules or this might be a step too far as well I just don't know, but time will tell.

I must jump to you defence however, there is a stroing undercurrent of owning up type threads and tell her type comments and this was almost a course of action I took and that would have placed me in the position of writing this post not you!!

I fell for you 100% and wish you every success in getting through it in time, my only piece of advice is that time is a great healer, I hope it pan's out in my case too though:)

Jaydee

08-08-2010, 06:55 PM

OK, I've stayed out of this thread long enough. But oh what an interesting discussion.

First and most importantly, my heart goes out to you Georgi. I feel your situation very acutely. We are similar ages, and have been married about the same length of time. I was very closeted. After finding this website, I was also affected by the "tell her" arguments. It took a couple years of baby steps, but I finally had the discussion about a year ago. It was hard and very scary. I was not sure how she would take the news. It wasn't easy. I was daily afraid she would walk out the door. Fortunately in my case, she took it calmly. She wanted ME to see a therapist, hoping it would cure me. She wouldn't go. In the end the therapist made me feel better about my dressing. She is now tolerating, as long as I keep it out of her sight. I know I am very fortunate, as your case shows, it could have easily gone the other way.

As seen in this monumental thread, there are arguements on many sides, but real life is never as neat and tidy as it seems in theory.

Georgi, good luck to you and your wife. I hope it works out for you. The only advice I can give is to continue to show your love, and give her time and space to get her own thoughts together.

Jaydee

PhillyGuy2Girl

08-09-2010, 12:56 AM

Every time I hear that a wife/SO doesn't accept CDing I always feel bad. Not to sound like I'm bragging but I'm so happy that my wife loves Felicity as much as P**l. I just wish that all my fellow sisters could have accepting wives/SO's like I have,but unfortunetly its doesn't go that way. I hope everything works out for you.

Felicity :)

Satrana

08-09-2010, 05:40 AM

She wanted ME to see a therapist, hoping it would cure me. She wouldn't go.

There is the heart of the matter. The righteous thought that CDing is abnormal and can be cured while blinding her to the hypocrisy of women's use of masculine clothing. The real problem lies in her head and the social prejudices she has absorbed. It is a tough nut to crack especially if she also feels cheated and distrustful.

My heart goes out to all those who pluck up the courage to tell and correct the wrong only to have the door slammed shut in their face. Such is life. Your only choice is to keep on trying to get through and hope that cracks appear in her resolve.

Whenever my wife really goes over the line and I decide to give her the cold shoulder, my resolve never lasts more than a few hours. I cannot imagine actually holding onto a resolve of non-acceptance for years, it would tear me apart. It would drain my love and leave me bitter. I could not stay in such a marriage. I hope things turn out better for everyone.:hugs:

KellyG

08-09-2010, 07:13 AM

.

From what I can gather from your comments, it sounds like both of you are trying to enter some sort of denial. You, that you're not a crossdresser anymore, and for your wife, that you never shared this information with her in the first place.
Cat

I think this is a good point. And I think it would be so great if you could see a therapist together. Perhaps one way to encourage her to join you would be to point out that therapy could help her to deal with her feelings of disappointment, etc. about what she has learned.

sometimes_miss

08-09-2010, 10:07 AM

Not all of this is directed at Georgi. But like him, there are plenty of lurkers out there, contemplating telling their SO; so rather than leave all the 'tell her' crowd as the only option, here's my two cents.

"Sometimes a lie is better than the truth."
For some, don't ask, don't tell is the only way to keep everyone together.
And

I finally caved in and told her was the constant counseling of the 'tell her, tell her' crowd on this forum
Sorry you fell for it, not all of us feel that way. You should have done some careful reconnaisance to see how she felt about the issue first. Sometimes ignorance IS bliss.

I also agree that my wife is bent out of shape over the revulsion, and not the deceit.
Don't kid yourself. It's both. Big time.

No, I have to disagree here. Giorgi has done what he can, albeit not as soon as some here think is appropriate, BUT he did put it out there AND is going to stop or trying to. Now the ball is in her court so to speak. She can show some compassion for his struggle regardless of whether she decides whether or not she can stay married to him. I think her behavior has more to do with the repulsion at the thought of men dressing as women more than the deceit.
Unfortunately, she is having to deal with her own shock to the system. Having compassion for the person who caused that shock, for her, will have to come AFTER she is able to grasp the situation and figure out how she is going to deal with it. He is no longer her priority. Her behavior is reactive to having HER husband dressing as a woman, and all the potential problems that entails. Add the deceit and it becomes a huge deal to her.
The 'monday night football' example is a poor analogy. What he has done changes how she sees her husband, and may very well have destroyed any sexual attraction she felt for him, forever. The potential for disaster was great here, and hoping it would turn out any other way was probably just wishful thinking.

And

I'm not trying to downplay the significance of having GG's comment here at all BUT, and I guess I'm making some assumptions here as well, most of them are making a go of it with their CDer.
Only the GG's who are HERE tend to make a go of it with their CD'er; the ones who aren't accepting aren't going to be here. So the opinions expressed here aren't representitive of the general population. I'm guessing most women wind up splitting up with any guy who comes out as a crossdresser to her . I don't know of any statistics to refer to, however, and it's not something you're going to find in the local newspaper, only the divorce lawyers know for sure, and they're not telling anyone.

Second, I'd like to see this "nice" four page letter. Nice? I HATE the "letter" gambit. Gutless, thoughtless, and, clueless. Say it don't play it.
Not everyone is so eloquent when under pressure. Add to the fact that when you try to discuss something like this, the other person is going to interrupt you so many times you forget everything you want to say, and sometimes making sure everything is on paper is the only way. It also gives her something to refer to after the fact, because she's sure to forget a lot of things. All too often, most women tend to only remember what they want to out of conversations tha deal with arguments or conflict.

I don't think you can give it up and she knows this. That's what makes it so hard for her.
No, what makes it so hard is that he's changed how she sees him forever. There's no un-ringing the bell here. Her masculine guy is gone forever, replaced by the image of 'some effeminate guy in a dress'. When women fantasize about having sex with a guy, that's not what they're thinking about. I know, I know, some will disagree. So, find me some romantic woman's literature where the lead male is a crossdresser. Oh, there are none. Right. Silly me.

Her whole world is upside down, and she feels trapped and unable to tell anyone. Can't imagine she's feeling too good, and every time she sees you, she sees the One Who Ruined It All.
That's almost word for word what my ex told me, and I'm sure most other women suddenly confronted with their SO being a crossdresser feel the same way.

BUT, you are not doing anything wrong as Pythos commented.
That's only the opinion of the faithful, the ones here. Most of the world, ESPECIALLY wives, will emphatically disagree with that statement.

Yeah, the truth shall set you free. You can suddenly find yourself free of jobs, free of family, free of friends, free of belongings, free of half (sometimes more than half) of your income, free, yes, means nothing left to lose.

SamanthaS

08-09-2010, 10:21 AM

I'm wishing you the best hon. So many of "us" keep this from our wivies and feel nothing but guilt about it; then we have someone as brave as you are come fourth and tell the truth only to be shot down over who you really are. I have to ask myself whats the harm in wearing women's clothes? Does it make your man-hood smaller? Does it change how you rise your children? Can you or I wear a skirt part-time and still make a living in the world? Good luck hon :)

LaurenEP

08-09-2010, 12:30 PM

Several years ago one of the "old men of the airport" an older gentleman that had been flying since WWII, who owned his own airplane came to visit my boss's hanger. That day he was not the happy joking guy he usually was before getting his trusty steed out of the hanger and taking it up for a few hours.

This day though he was clearly troubled. His wife started acting stupid about his flying. Though not puking in the toilet, she was putting up a stink about the plane (this guy was filthy rich, so it was not anything about finances). They were married I think two or more years.

.....

Just like CDing you can't stop flying when aviation is a part of your being.

This story, which I've abridged in quoting, is very apt. I'm going to remember this. Thank you for this story. There is always something, whether something culturally unacceptable, or culturally celebrated that many people are drawn to and can't help, and there will also always be someone who doesn't approve.

Miss Misery

08-09-2010, 12:45 PM

..The 'monday night football' example is a poor analogy. What he has done changes how she sees her husband, and may very well have destroyed any sexual attraction she felt for him, forever...

You didn't get the analogy. The point was that the deceit alone, unrelated to the sexuality aspect, WAS NOT the cause of her reaction. So MNF is certainly a fair analogy.

AND -

Only the GG's who are HERE tend to make a go of it with their CD'er; the ones who aren't accepting aren't going to be here.

THAT'S WHAT THE QUOTE YOU'RE CHALLENGING IS SAYING AS WELL!

Quote:
I'm not trying to downplay the significance of having GG's comment here at all BUT, and I guess I'm making some assumptions here as well, most of them are making a go of it with their CDer.

Satrana

08-10-2010, 07:15 AM

No, what makes it so hard is that he's changed how she sees him forever. There's no un-ringing the bell here. Her masculine guy is gone forever, replaced by the image of 'some effeminate guy in a dress'. When women fantasize about having sex with a guy, that's not what they're thinking about. I know, I know, some will disagree. So, find me some romantic woman's literature where the lead male is a crossdresser. Oh, there are none. Right. Silly me.

:devil:Classic

Simply put, women do not date men who fall under the category of "losers" which CDs are included in.

For a woman to personally fantasize about effeminate men would mean she would have to constantly battle against society's programming of what constitutes a real man. This probably is indicative of TG/Bi feelings on her part but irregardless there are very few of them. The chances of a CD meeting one in normal dating situations is remote.

Now it is true that some accepting SOs of CDs can find their effeminate man attractive but that is an after the fact situation where the dynamics of the relationship reveals this potential. They never thought this way beforehand otherwise they would have been actively seeking to date CDs all their lives.

None of this is of any value to a CD who is married to an non-accepting GG. If she can't accept her man in a dress in non-sexual situations, for sure the bedroom is completely out of bounds. Killing off sexual attraction means killing off physical contact which quickly leads to emotional distance and coldness of heart. The death bells are ringing.

If the marriage continues it is only because it is a marriage of convenience either because of children or the desire to avoid separation and loneliness.

On the bright side ice is easily melted. Some GGs after a period of time do realize their reaction was misplaced and has caused unnecessary pain for both and begin mending the relationship. This assumes that in the meantime the CD partner has not gone off following his own desires which may derail any chance of reconciliation.

Sarah_GG

08-10-2010, 08:43 AM

As one of the "tell her" crowd, I applaud you for standing up and being truthful. You have stopped living a lie, you've stopped hiding, you've stopped longing for her to go out of town for a few nights so you can dress.

It is very EARLY days for your wife. She is having to process a married lifetime of misinformation. She will take time to gather her thoughts. I sincerely hope you are able to direct your wife on to this forum to get support. Believe me, there are many forums/sites out there that are not supportive of the TG community.

From everything you've said, your situation sounds highly salvageable. But it won't happen over night. I am an accepting GG. I have know since early on in our relationship but when I google certain things on the net, even my toes are apt to curl! But, I'm able to luxuriate in the knowledge that my SO is 100% truthful with me. We talk about the CDing, we read books and we discuss them. My SO isn't trying to hide anything from me. We have a very good relationship. I'm confident that you and your wife will find a way through this difficult time. Just watch the 'pink fog' that might envelop you at your first whiff of her acceptance. Your wife needs to see her man. She has decades of evidence to support that you've been a man. Reassure her that nothing is going to change. Or be truthful about your true desires in that direction.

If your wife joins us on here she will get the support that she needs. You have support here and a full understanding of what transgenderism is. Your wife has a steep learning curve ahead of her. Inevitably though your relationship can only benefit from the truth. If there is no truth, no trust then there is no relationship.

Good luck! :)

JulieC

08-10-2010, 11:56 AM

Simply put, women do not date men who fall under the category of "losers" which CDs are included in.

My anecdotal experience has strongly shown otherwise. Also, many of the experiences related on this forum have shown otherwise.

I think there are very few women who in particular seek out CDers to date. But, I think there are a great many women who are quite happy to date and marry a CDer, once they know their partner is a CDer.

I think we should give women a lot more credit. Rational approaches to CDing is not confined to MtF CDing men.

NicoleScott

08-10-2010, 12:36 PM

This thread, every post in order, should be required reading for everyone involved in any way with telling, thinking about telling, or recommending telling a SO about your crossdressing desires and activities.

Many have had positive experiences by telling. Others have had bad initial reactions, only to say that in the long run, it was best for them. And so they think their experiences are typical and heartily recommend that all cd's must come clean, absolute honesty is absolutely required for good relationships, and having secrets is like cheating.

Well, duh, one size doesn't fit all. There are, as someone posted, "comfortable" relationships that last 30 years as if that's bad. Something must have been right. Maybe some marriages require both partners' brain waves to be in perfect lock-step, but not all do. Some marriages make room for each person to have personal, private thoughts, and the marriage thrives.

Georgi isn't the first on this forum to have told his spouse and had a bad reaction. Splits happen often, not because of crossdressing, but of her finding out. The marriage was solid until then, but the total honesty argument compelled telling, and BOOM, trouble.

It's a good idea to recommend telling partners before marrying, but we've discussed all the reasons why this sometimes didn't happen, especially for us older, pre-internet, cd's. But what good does it do Georgi now, that he SHOULD HAVE told? We all know that, NOW.

And why do some who should know better (Lorileah) keep denying that it's not a fetish thing? For some it's not, for many it is. Look at the number of posts for "Fetishes". It is a fetish thing for me, and Georgi said it is for him, and not a tg-lifestyle thing.

My wife knows, and accepts, but doesn't participate and prefers that I do my thing without her, and I prefer it that way too. That approach works for us, but won't work for others. My first marriage ended when she found out, that is, when I told her, that I'm a cd. Didn't work for us. So much for honesty.

I wish the "must tell, you'll be glad" crowd would get a reality check. Sometimes the outcome of telling is bad. I would never recommend Don't Ask DOn't Tell for every situation, because I know it won't work for every one. But it does work for some. Let's present both sides.

Sarah_GG

08-10-2010, 12:45 PM

I wish the "must tell, you'll be glad" crowd would get a reality check. Sometimes the outcome of telling is bad. I would never recommend Don't Ask DOn't Tell for every situation, because I know it won't work for every one. But it does work for some. Let's present both sides.

Personally speaking I'm not able to function when there are secrets in a relationship. I don't like it, it's an insult to my intelligence, an affront to my human rights, that the person I'm choosing to share my life with doesn't trust me enough to share a major part of their life with me.

However, not everyone is the same. I know that for the older CDs (my SO is 58, I'm 49) it has been difficult to come to terms with an accept this part of oneself. And to many ignorance is bliss. But, we do live in a much more enlightened age now where women go out to work, we all have gay friends... etc, blah blah blah!

To each his own. But, I won't stop waving the "tell her" banner I'm afraid. Complete honesty is what makes a worthwhile and fulfilling relationship. And I'm not the only GG to espouse that particular view.

NicoleScott

08-10-2010, 01:43 PM

Sarah GG, I'm all for open, honest marriages. But as you know, some of us who are older grew up alone with our crossdressing, and find ourselves with wanting to be honest but knowing that a bad outcome could result.
I agree that complete honesty makes for a worthwhile and fulfilling relationship, but I don't believe that you can declare a marriage unsuccessful because the participants have personal, private, unshared thoughts. We are still separate creatures. For example: let's say my wife and I see a woman wearing fishnet stockings. Without prompting, my wife says "I wouldn't be caught dead in those things. Anyone turned on by those is perverted". Well, what if I happen to like fishnets, and would be turned on by seeing my wife in them? Should I tell her that (complete honesty) and allow her to think of me as perverted? Or keep it to myself, knowing and accepting that it's not going to be part of our bedroom activities? And if I keep quiet, is our marriage doomed?

Yes, we live in a more enlightened age........too bad Georgi's wife isn't so enlightened.

You can go on waving the "tell her" banner, just be sure to add "but if you do, she may leave you". I don't agree with those who think that if you tell her and she leaves you, the marriage wasn't worth keeping in the first place.
There's more than one (your) formula for and definition of a successful marriage.

Sarah, here's the point of my previous post: those considering telling should read every post here (including yours), gather as much information as they can, mix in their own unique circumstances, and make the best, most thoughtful decision possible.

Miss Misery

08-10-2010, 02:05 PM

SarahGG -

You might want to check out the "location" of some of the members on here. All of us don't live in London or the UK for that matter. The states, for example NicholeScott's home of Mississippi, are not quite as accepting of "other" lifestyles as where you live.

I will also add this question to the "telling" list. What exactly is gained by a GG in being told of their spouse's CDing after 10, 20 30 yrs? The right to decide whether to accept it or not? Okay. But if you don't have a problem with it then how is it of any real value? Sure, sure. The open honest thing but I guarantee that every relationship has things that go "untold". Whether that is deceit or just conveniently forgetting to bring it up is just a matter of semantics.

You can't know if someone's keeping a secret from you, BECAUSE IT'S A SECRET! You aren't supposed to know. You can only believe they have told you everything.

As I just got through saying in another post here - with regard to telling your SO "your mileage may vary".

Sarah_GG

08-10-2010, 02:16 PM

For example: let's say my wife and I see a woman wearing fishnet stockings. Without prompting, my wife says "I wouldn't be caught dead in those things. Anyone turned on by those is perverted". Well, what if I happen to like fishnets, and would be turned on by seeing my wife in them? Should I tell her that (complete honesty) and allow her to think of me as perverted? Or keep it to myself, knowing and accepting that it's not going to be part of our bedroom activities? And if I keep quiet, is our marriage doomed?

Absolutely. To each his/her own! But, if you and your wife had that conversation about fishnets wouldn't you seize the opportunity to ask her why she thought that? They may not be to her taste, but perverted?!

I'm not denigrating anyone who chooses to not tell. My SO didn't tell his first wife... or his second come to that! But perhaps there was a feeling of something being kept, a deceit or secret that caused the breakdown of trust, communication and eventual stagnation of the marriage?

The CDing isn't part of our bedroom activities either, but occasionally we have a laugh with it and talk about purchases, looks etc. My SO tells me he's always wanted to share it with someone - the getting dolled up and ready to go out - and now he can!

I do understand many of the reasons that the older CDers don't tell. But, I have a hard time understanding why the young ones don't. It's said over and over again here, it's not the CDing that's been the issue (in many cases)... it's the deceit.

ps. I bet you look great in fishnets! Many CDers do because they're blessed with fabulous legs. :D

Sarah_GG

08-10-2010, 02:21 PM

You can't know if someone's keeping a secret from you, BECAUSE IT'S A SECRET! You aren't supposed to know. You can only believe they have told you everything.

But, as we know, those secrets do have a habit of being found out. Then shock follows horror and ultimately upset at being lied to.

I accept that London (indeed much of the UK) is different. I'm very lucky to live in a tolerant accepting society.

And I have a very simplistic outlook that doesn't suit everyone. :)

EllieOPKS

08-10-2010, 03:42 PM

Lorileah

08-10-2010, 03:53 PM

I am still having a hard time understanding how two people can be married, live together, theoretically speak to each other for 10, 20, 30 years and not know how the opposite feels about some things. You know they don't like strawberries or they don't like rainy days or they don't like cats, but you didn't know they had such a reaction to men in dresses? We all have our own ideas of how marriages and love should go. Mine says if you love someone you love the inner person not the shell. It is why nature made our eyes fail as we age, so you can still see the person as they were but you love the person as they are. We all have secrets. Many don't impact how you and your spouse feel about each other. Some do impact how you feel about yourself and if that secret ferments long enough, it will impact how you feel about your marriage. Feeling like you are being held back (i e not having your spouse accept who you are) can lead to you not liking many things about them which leads to anger and divorce. My opinion, and that is all it is, is that if the presentation you have (the clothes) is enough to make your spouse not love you any more, just how much love was there to start? I also think that many times we know that love is tenuous and we hide to try and save it. But what happens when the next thing comes along that tips the balance (your job, not making enough money, being late because you really are working late for that money, your haircut or god forbid, you becoming ill)? We all react, that is a physical thing. We all have reason, that is an evolved human thing. It isn't so much the initial reaction but how we act afterward. If hate, distance or divorce are the actions after the initial reaction, how solid was the relationship to start?

ReineD

08-10-2010, 04:06 PM

I am in complete agreement with Missy when she asked what is there to gain by sharing this information with your SO? I see nothing wrong with having personal privacy. If I had to tell my wife every thing that occurs in my life I think I would rather be divorced.

If your wife feels the same way about it as you do, if she also has several other people that she confides things to because she simply doesn't want you involved or she doesn't want you to know a part of her core, then I congratulate you both on your mutual arrangement. It works for you, and that's what it is all about.

But, there are people (among whom I suspect is the OP's wife) who do wish to have a primary relationship with someone, that someone being their romantic partner with whom they have an intimate connection that surpasses all others. This is the person who knows you at your heart's core, and with whom you feel safe disclosing everything without fear of judgment. It takes work to develop relationships like this, it's not easy, but I promise you that it is well worth it.

It is when one spouse seeks a more distant, arm's length type of connection than the other, that there are issues in the relationships. The partner who has a need for the deeper intimacy feels left out in the cold and there is an imbalance in the relationship.

I for one would have a difficult time losing myself sexually with someone whom I felt kept me on the periphery of his life. It would be a huge turn-off.

Shelly67

08-10-2010, 04:58 PM

Lead balloon time .
Most crossdressers are are rather selfish bunch one way or another . Sorry - but its true . Wrapped up in ones own feelings of femaninity is one thing , but I think as a man if you can't be honest with your life partner then I'm sorry it's an insult to the oaths you took and worse - her intelligence . It will return to bite you . Theres far too much evidence on here to prove that fact .
Surely , IF more effort was placed into trying to bridge communication with gentle honesty , rather than deception , then surely a positive gain in a partnership / marriage should be the end result ? It's not easy , but then anything worth its salt - is never easy .
After all , the notion of ones hubby wearing womens clothes may disgust , frighten or even give way to unbelievable horror , but in contrast that must seem inferior and petty to that of feeling untrusted ? We are our partners towers of strength . They adore the safety and stability we provide . The persom whom they trust the most .
We - every human being , hates the idea of not being trusted . Its undeniable . Imagine , the stark reality of finding out after years , suddenly being told a secret , that washes away the trust developed over years together . You'd feel robbed , denied , cheated . Try to put yourself in theyre shoes .
I simply refuse to believe , that material goods , clothes , make up , whatever , are the base reason for any matrimonial break up . There simply has to be an additional reason . Perhaps as " one of the crowd " my outlook may seem blinkered . BUT - it's honest - for better - for worse . If there's one thing on coming out to my wife I've learnt - I treat her as my equal . I give her the honesty I only ever wish to recieve . Because in the end that is all we are left with - honesty being our only excuse . If that offends , well ....
For those who have come clean - it's a matter of communication that will either make or break the situation . Its not bravado , it's a plea to be finally understood . I can only applaud such behaviour .
For those who remain in undiscovered by theyre own choice ...well , you have your reasons . They are your own personal choices .
But do not be surprised if one day it all becomes clear , then things will become very difficult .
If only we all could talk and LISTEN without fear or pressure .

NicoleScott

08-10-2010, 06:04 PM

Absolutely. To each his/her own! But, if you and your wife had that conversation about fishnets wouldn't you seize the opportunity to ask her why she thought that? They may not be to her taste, but perverted?!

ps. I bet you look great in fishnets! Many CDers do because they're blessed with fabulous legs. :D

Thanks, but the truth is, I don't have a thing for fishnets. It was about HER wearing them to enhance bedroom activities. Some people (men and women) think fishnets are for "women of ill repute". Strong feelings, though misguided, but such thoughts do exist, such as some people thinking that if you crossdress, you must be gay. Anyway, it just isn't possible to discuss everything. Would I have a greater burden to tell my fiance that fishnets kind of turn me on, than she does to tell me she is strongly opposed to wearing them, even in the privacy of the bedroom? Anyway, the fishnet thing was just an example of how it is impossible and unnecessary for couples to share EVERYTHING, much less to agree on everything. Keeping some thoughts private isn't necessarily a breech of honesty. Was Georgi's wife's failure to tell him that the idea of a man wearing a dress nauseated her a breech of honesty? Total honesty may come with a price, such as the ruin of a 30-year marriage.
Again, my point is that both sides should be presented.

Jaydee

08-10-2010, 09:37 PM

This is an important thread. I truly feel Georgi's pain, and the others in similar situations. To tell or not is a difficult decision, with possible dire consequences, and you can't "unring" the bell

I think also there are more issues for the SO than deceit. In my case, for example. I told her about a year ago, after 33 years of marriage. She wasn't so much distressed by my not telling her, as she understood (raising kids, medical issues, etc). What has caused her the most discomfort is that she no longer sees me as the strong man that she had always known. Where before, when we went shopping for her clothes, she was proud of what she saw as my inner strength of being able to enter the women's department. Now she doesn't want me anywhere near when she shops for clothes.

For me the positive effect of telling is that I no longer have to worry about her finding out on accident, and we can discuss my gender issues openly, even if not often. On the other hand, we have lost something too. I can see a loss of esteem in her eyes, I am not the man she thought I was. I miss that. She seems less passionate when we are intimate. I see this as a time of probation. I am having to be careful of what I say or do. I know she still loves me, but it has been a difficult time. She needs lots of reassurance. I am trying to keep the lines of communication open without overwhelming her.

I would say to those still in the closet, there is no one size fits all answer, but that they should think about coming out. They know their SO's better than anyone else. No one can tell them the "right" answer. I had been working towards coming out with baby steps for a couple years. That allowed me to judge the waters.

Jaydee

P.S.: Good Luck Georgi!

Lorileah

08-10-2010, 10:38 PM

I understand that I cannot see this through the spouse's eyes but explain just how one becomes less of something by telling who you are? Did you lose muscle mass? Did you lose the ability to do household things? Exactly how did you become less of who you are? I get that she may "think" so but you are the one who will allow the idea to be so. So you had big cahones to walk into a woman's department but now you are nullified? Why because you are no longer the rebel? Not really grasping this.

You are MORE now that you are out to her. None of the stuff you could do before suddenly left you and unless you are on hormones you can still be strong or whatever. Your brain did not change. This is all you not her. It may be what she said she thinks of you but you let it go. You could have proven that you are just as masculine when needed. Did you just give up? Why can't you be both? Women say they want tenderness compassion caring softness at times. You have that. You also can still hit a ball over the fence, mend that fence and guard the gate. None of that went away the day you said "Hey I like skirts".

If you reinforced this then yes you are less the man she knew. It was up to you to prove you were still the person she loved and it isn't your muscles or beard or whatever you believe makes a man. I think I see now that some here associate being a man with their clothes an when confronted they just prefer to let the falsehood ride. This isn't easy people. Just because you come out does not mean you don't have to keep working

Christy_M

08-10-2010, 11:51 PM

I am relatively new here and I am engrossed in the similarities I am finding in other's experiences. There ar e a couple of things I have noticved in this short time here though:

It seems that we are all very interested in each other's well being. I truly believe this even with the bickering.

We, like most of society have people that fall along a continuum that isn't "one-size-fits-all". although I am an advocate for honesty in the relationship, there are just those things you don't talk about (like the dent in the car or the porn in the computer or any number of things that just don't need to be discussed.

There seems to be some people who come across as self righteous in that their belief on where they fall on the continuum is where everyone falls or will eventually fall. I have no idea where I fall or where I might end up or if this is just on long changing journey. The highlights of which will be determined at the right time for me just as everyone else will have to find their "right times" to move along this continuum.

Unfortunately, there is also a lot of stereotypical "guy" stuff here trying to fix every single problem that comes up. Sometimes, venting is just that...getting it off our chest without the need for a reply.

Also, unfortunately, there is a lot of stereotypical girl stuff going on here, too. There is a tone with some of the posts that appear judgmental when we are not in each other's shoes (although I have seen a few cute one here).

Georgi is going through a pretty rough patch and probably doesn't need us to "fix it" for him. he has to find his spot on the continuum and decide when his highlights will come. I wish the best for him and his SO. My wife told me that If I continue to CD she will leave me. That was 4 years ago. I haven't told her I am still doing it, yet but I think that highlight of my life is coming up real quick.

08-11-2010, 01:13 AM

I am still having a hard time understanding how two people can be married, live together, theoretically speak to each other for 10, 20, 30 years and not know how the opposite feels about some things. [...] If hate, distance or divorce are the actions after the initial reaction, how solid was the relationship to start?Nail, head, etc.

Sarah_GG

08-11-2010, 01:53 AM

Satrana

08-11-2010, 03:33 AM

Exactly. This is a question I've raised on this forum before. If I'd started dating and my date had expressed homophobic or racist opinions, I'm afraid that would've been the end of the relationship. I would not have gone on to marry that person.

I think though that misses the point that CDs do not see themselves in that light - ie they are not gay or perverts etc. Also feelings like homophobia were widespread until very recently so hard to avoid. We are dealing with people who were married decades ago and they made their decisions under different circumstances.

I think the CD community needs to understand that there is a BC/AD split around the year 2000 when the circumstances changed in how CD relationships should be considered. The advice that is given to those whose relationships began AD is different to those BC.

This is a great discussion with lots of interesting angles. But when I sit back and look from afar I see a clash between idealism and reality. We live in a society which pushes idealistic notions down our thoughts and we worry ourselves to death wondering if we meet these ideals that we believe everyone else is chasing. What I know is that when detailed studies are done on human behavior they invariably show that real behavior is nothing like the idealism everyone spouts.

When I think about how couples get along including of course my own relationships, it seems to me to be the norm that men and women want to have a private life where they share certain things with friends that they have no desire to share with their partner. There is an understanding that some things are partner material and other things are friend material. And the longer a couple stay together the more pronounced this division becomes and the more private time is needed. Yet I suspect most people when asked to join in a discussion about relationships would wholeheartedly support the total honesty, 100% sharing viewpoint even though they have a happy relationship themselves doing the exact opposite.

Even the honesty issue shows this discrepancy between idealism and reality. Science shows people on average lie 20-40 times a day. We all do it. Our lives would be a nightmare if we did not manage the truth to avoid unnecessary pain and conflict. But most are in denial to the extent of their lying because they justify their actions to themselves as inconsequential or the right thing to do. We all consider ourselves to be fundamentally truthful people. We cannot bring ourselves to admit to we are lairs.

On this aspect of living in an enlightened world. I think that those who are progressive blind themselves to the extent many people choose not to be enlightened. Lots of folks see progressive values as a bad thing and have no interest in joining us on the other side of the fence. Neither side understands why the other thinks that way. Statistically lots of CDs must be married to partners who wish to remain unenlightened. And of course they know this.

Which leads me back to the original point of why would you marry someone who is less than perfect. Simple - everyone is imperfect and when you are in love you simply ignore the imperfections especially if you feel these imperfections will not get in the way of a happy relationship. Remember in BC times most CDs thought marriage would either cure them or they would be able to take their secret to the grave. It was their secret and their self-sacrifice to make. And they had no information or support to let them deliberate otherwise.

Sarah_GG

08-11-2010, 04:00 AM

Even the honesty issue shows this discrepancy between idealism and reality. Science shows people on average lie 20-40 times a day. We all do it. Our lives would be a nightmare if we did not manage the truth to avoid unnecessary pain and conflict. But most are in denial to the extent of their lying because they justify their actions to themselves as inconsequential or the right thing to do. We all consider ourselves to be fundamentally truthful people. We cannot bring ourselves to admit to we are liars.

Really? 20-40 times a day?

Certainly there's the "Does my bum look big in this?" question to which the answer is always "No darling". But on the key issues in life, there may be compromise but lies? I have lived with a compulsive liar who did lie 20-40 times a day to everyone he met and not just about the small, inconsequential stuff. The relationship was unsustainable. Which may be the reason I can't abide lies now.

I do understand the difficulties for pre-internet individuals who thought they were the only ones and carried the shame. But, there were civil rights issues in the US which would've provoked discussion about difference, tolerance and acceptance.

Satrana

08-11-2010, 04:46 AM

Yes of course most of the lies we tell are white lies and are inconsequential. The point is none of us are as truthful as we think we are, we tell more lies than we imagine.

The other problem with lies is personal judgement. What one person considers inconsequential maybe a big deal to another. For example if someone took a penny from your purse, they might justify their action that a penny was next to worthless and so no need to own up to taking it. You might decide that even a penny is theft and is a major issue.

I would imagine that most CDs will come to think of their need as a harmless activity and so in time think of it as inconsequential. They would further justify this with the understanding that they are the victims of social prejudice and hypocrisy that as men they do not have the freedom women have to wear the clothes of the opposite sex. Hiding something because of unfair discrimination is not the same as lying about something that illustrates selfish behavior for example.

So you will end up with a divide between the person who knows the secret but progressively downplays its significance and the unknowing partner who will of course be shocked and overwhelmed once the secret is revealed. But from each perspective they can both feel that they are in the right and their partner is in the wrong.

Georgi

08-11-2010, 09:22 AM

Time is working its magic, but before I go into that I want to supply some comments regarding some of the posts about 30-year marriages, false pretenses, etc.

Yes, my wife and I have been married for over 30 years, and yes these crossdressing tendencies have been around to one extent or another my entire life. Like many others I felt they were abnormal, even perverted and should be made to go away if at all possible until just the last several years. (I only discovered cd support on the internet just over a year ago.) When I got married, I was not actively cd'ing at all and really did not think about it much. I suppose if I even did think about it I probably thought now that I would get sex on a regular basis (hold any snickering on that one) that even those impulses would vanish forever. So it would cease to be an issue and need never be discussed. The few times the urges bubbled up mildly over the decades since it was easily suppressed again, so it seemed again something that could be put away permanently. I read the comment somewhere about taking the secret to the grave, and that's exactly what I had intended to do.

Only in the last 36 months has the cd'ing come on full stage and stayed (with several purge and denial cycles) such that I finally decided it was something I had to talk about. So there really has not been a 30 year history of constant coverup, even though the latent tendency was there since childhood. So, psychologists of the bunch, have a go at that.

So do my wife and I have a marriage based on lies and deceit? Do we know each other inside and out? Actually I knew her better than I wanted to admit, and I 'gave in to the dark side' when I went with the tell her crowd. My previous postings had railed for nearly a year about how my wife could never handle knowing about my cd'ing, but somehow I convinced myself that with love and patience I could overcome that and we would have a stronger marriage after I told her the truth. Who knows, maybe we will a year from now - I guess I'll know next summer.

On with the news. Without going into details, the last two nights I've been the happy recipient :) of 2AM booty calls after more than a month of abstinence. Her doing, not mine. I've told her from the blowup that the ball is in her court and I'm waiting for her to make any moves. Funny thing is, the morning after the first one she apologized to me and said, "I'm sorry I used you, I just needed you for the sex." I told her that was fine, please use me any time she wanted. Her comment was that in the dark she doesn't have to think about anything like she does when she can actually see me.

Daytime physical contact is still about the same, but we're talking a bit more freely and without quite so much anguish. I know this isn't the end and there's still a lot of miles to go, but it does seem to be the beginning of a new day. And we still haven't even gotten her to her first counseling session which is still a couple of weeks away if it doesn't get moved.

Thanks to all for your support,
Georgi

Lorileah

08-11-2010, 10:21 AM

we do not remember days, we remember moments. Cesar somebody said that (and I don't want to go to google forget what I was going to say...yadayada). And the moment get sweeter because we tend to suppress the bad times (look at all the good old days stories).

Georgi, time will smooth it out and apparently your spouse has decided that a little you is better than none at all. Who knows maybe she will start taking larger bites.

Your story of this not being a big thing 30 years ago rings true for most here I am sure. Almost every one has said "I got this" and they carry it around. My memory of 35 years ago was that the fashions were androgynous, I was skinny so they fit and life was wonderful. Long hair, jewelry, fitted clothing made of smooth shiny fabrics. It was CD heaven without having to be CD. That and the whole acceptance (ay least in my circle) of alternative lifestyles was high. Then came the 80's and men started wearing....uuuuugh...ugly loose unkempt wrinkled clothing (so did I ...fashion **** I am) then the fashions got worse but I still held onto the short shorts and nylon underwear and other things. My wife knew what I liked to wear so there really wasn't any official coming out. We had silently agreed while dating and early marriage. This morphed into more female specific clothing as the male copy went away and it was a smooth transition.

Point is that it isn't your wife who fought this for 30 years and I believe you even said you fought it. How would it have been if you had subtly done this instead of the big "Surprise!" letter. As you pointed out I am one to tell. Any person I will be involved with from now on will know early. And it can be a big bomb early because the investment isn't high. Hind sight and all, this may have worked better for you to ease in. There is a person here on these boards I am trying to convince that slow and steady is often the answer over plowing ahead. At least you are the icon for that right now. Would you suggest that someone in your position A) not tell at all? B) come clean in one major coup or C) take it slower?

There are hundreds of posts all over the place now and the "older" CD has more information from all our suggestions and mistakes. There isn't a one size answer (except you really need to tell as soon as possible for both sakes) but when is ASAP?
\
I certainly hope things work out for you and it seems that as of right now she is willing to slowly return. It will never be the same. I hope it will be better than before with you being able to talk about every thing.

As to another post here. Yes you need "you " time and she needs "her" time and you don't have to discuss everything especially little things that you do during "your" time. But dressing is a BIG thing. And unless you both have decided it is something you both will gloss over, you should tell IMHO especially if you are out and in public. It would be far worse for her to hear about your "hobby" from someone else. That really ramps up the "it is a lie" part.

Georgi

08-11-2010, 11:18 AM

At least you are the icon for that right now. Would you suggest that someone in your position A) not tell at all? B) come clean in one major coup or C) take it slower?

As a number of people have said, this depends so much on the individual, no one size fits all. The 'tell her, tell her, the truth shall set you free' chant is hypnotic, and can potentially blind one to realities of human imperfection.

I personally don't see how one can 'take it slow'. You're either a cross-dresser or you're not. You can't tell your SO you're a little bit of a cross-dresser (or can you?), without potentially lying more right then and there. Kind of a catch 22.

I guess I'm no longer very well qualified to talk about the 'Not Tell' path. During the first ten minutes my wife did say 'Some things are better left untold' or something similar, so don't ask don't tell might be the best answer for some. Again, your mileage will vary.

I do think the printed letter was a bit of a bungle on my part. I should have used note cards with points in order that I wanted to express. If I had done that, I could have steered the conversation early in one direction or another, perhaps saving a major part of the revelations for another time without actually lying, thereby softening that first day's impact on my wife. But then again, that might have just stretched out the inevitable. Who knows?

But dressing is a BIG thing. And unless you both have decided it is something you both will gloss over, you should tell IMHO especially if you are out and in public. It would be far worse for her to hear about your "hobby" from someone else. That really ramps up the "it is a lie" part.

As I've mentioned several times before, and several people keep insisting I'm in denial over, cd'ing is more of a fetish to me than a lifestyle. It really is a take it or leave it choice as far as I'm concerned. Time will tell if I'm kidding myself, of course, but I have no cd life going at all right now, and have no plans to restart any at all. I've quit for fairly long stretches before (including decades before this last 'breakout') when only my own wishes were involved, now there's so much more at stake.

I've made a promise to my wife that the cd'ing has stopped, that she's more important to me that the cd'ing, and she is. Now we'll hopefully get into joint therapy and talk about cd'ing and maybe her attitudes toward it will change, and maybe I'll come back to it and maybe I won't. Time will tell.

Thanks,
Georgi

Sarah_GG

08-11-2010, 11:58 AM

I personally don't see how one can 'take it slow'. You're either a cross-dresser or you're not. You can't tell your SO you're a little bit of a cross-dresser (or can you?), without potentially lying more right then and there. Kind of a catch 22.

Absolutely right. I don't agree with the 'drip feed' or 'baby steps' approach. Yes, let her take her time in taking on board the information but answer every question that she does have truthfully. Sorry if I'm sounding like a broken record but have you guided your wife towards this site for support? (I forget when i've said it and to whom!) Most of the GGs on this forum are supportive now, even if they weren't at the beginning. We do understand the issues that your wife is facing. Ignorance creates fear.

I've made a promise to my wife that the cd'ing has stopped, that she's more important to me that the cd'ing, and she is. Now we'll hopefully get into joint therapy and talk about cd'ing and maybe her attitudes toward it will change, and maybe I'll come back to it and maybe I won't. Time will tell.

You can't stop the CDing any more than your wife can change the colour of her eyes. It isn't possible. It's part of who you are. You can, however, agree tol put things on hold until she's caught up with it.

For anyone suddenly finding out about CDing, it is a bit of a shock. After a while, things become less shocking and more 'normal'. You start to understand what it's all about. Then you start to ask questions. As the wife of a CDer you need to understand how this fits in with your man. It won't happen over night.

But, your point that telling isn't for everyone is true. And I'm sorry if you have any regrets about telling. You are going through a very difficult time now but you're not hiding anymore. Who knows, in six months or a year you might come back and tell us all what a great time you're having. i hope so.

Miss Misery

08-11-2010, 12:53 PM

Who knows, in six months or a year you might come back and tell us all what a great time you're having. i hope so.

So would Giorgi then be an example of the virtues of telling? He might still beg to differ on that account.

Satrana

08-12-2010, 01:06 AM

Her comment was that in the dark she doesn't have to think about anything like she does when she can actually see me.
Ouch!

It is good news that this has happened. I don't believe your wife saying she just needed sex. Sex has a big emotional component and this is her way of signaling that she wants you back and for things to return to normal - normal of course being without the CDing.

Physical contact comforts people and melts their resolve, not just sex but hugs and cuddles too. The more the merrier. Sooner or later she is going to have to confront her longing for a happy loving relationship with these feelings of prejudice for men displaying femininity. Getting her to understand that this is her issue rather than an issue about you is half the battle.

several people keep insisting I'm in denial over, cd'ing is more of a fetish to me than a lifestyle. It really is a take it or leave it choice as far as I'm concerned.
The sexualization of the CDing drive is by far the most dominant behavior CDers show. You are very much a typical CDer. Go to groups like those on Yahoo and it is all about the sexual fetish. Many CDers state that they don't feel transgendered at all. I believe them. I think as young boys we develop our behavior as much as a response to our questioning our own suitability for the masculine role and duties as it is an attraction towards the female role. Meaning you don't have to want to be a girl to develop into a CDer. For some it is just a delightful temporary escape from masculinity linked to their sex drive and nothing else. If this describes you then you will have a much greater control over your dressing than others who do feel transgendered.

Lynn Marie

08-12-2010, 01:48 AM

My heart goes out to you. I sure hope things turn out as you have wished they would, but if not, keep in mind that you will have grown and benifitted greatly from what ever happens.

Right now the ball is in her court, and she has all the power. You are the helpless victim awaiting her judgement. This situation really minimizes you as a man and further destroys your efforts at some sort of reconciliation. Find a way that you can once again exert your manhood into the situation. For some reason I'm reminded of Tim, "the tool man" Taylor and his efforts to redeem himself from some dumb thing he's done. Of course your situation is nothing as trivial as a TV sitcom, but somehow, in my head, poor Tim's efforts seem to closely resemble what you are going through.

I wish you well. I know this is really hard.

ReineD

08-12-2010, 02:26 AM

Only in the last 36 months has the cd'ing come on full stage and stayed (with several purge and denial cycles) such that I finally decided it was something I had to talk about.

Georgi, I suspected this from your very first post. Your story is not uncommon. The Cding is fairly easy to suppress when the urges aren't strong, and if the urges come only occasionally, it is somewhat easy to hide.

But from what I've read here, there comes a point where the need to dress more frequently becomes so strong that to try to keep it under wraps causes some major anxiety, especially for someone like you who has not been lying daily to your wife during the last 30 years. And if someone doesn't have a natural outlet, such as regularly scheduled business trips or a wife who is away frequently, there isn't much other choice than TO tell.

I mention this because I really do feel as if your anger at the "tell the SO" crowd was misplaced. You didn't tell your SO because you felt you were doing the ethical thing. Well, OK I'll grant that it was a part of the reason you told her, but more importantly, you needed to tell her because you just couldn't keep the lid on it any more. Look deep inside your heart and tell me this isn't true. :)

The reason most of us end up telling the truth about big secrets like this is to free ourselves.

I'm glad that your wife is beginning to get over her shock. :) I think there's a chance it will all be OK. :hugs:

michellesworld

08-12-2010, 02:39 AM

I think some of the posts here are a little to harsh to the OP. A dose of truth is alright, but some empathy would be even better.

In my opinion, society places too much emphasis is finding the 'perfect soulmate' or 'the one' that many people end up putting on a charade to lure a partner, as opposed to showing his/her true self. For this reason, over half of all marriages end in divorce. Closet CDers who don't tell their partners before marriage are guilty of this....but so are enthusiasts of all kinds. A lot of women I know are clean-freaks, who would be abhorred to date a man who is a slob. Most men know that, and will take extra effort to try to correct their sloppiness, knowing full well that that's a characteristic that women do not admire. Some will correct the habit and become neat-freaks themselves, while others go back to their norm after they are married.

Many times, a CDer getting married believes that the CDing is just a hobby that they can quit at anytime. Knowing that there is still a stigma against CDing, many may try to ween off the habit or quit altogether. Just like the slobs, some will quit for good, while some will revert back to their ways.

Now is this really being 'dishonest'? Putting on a front is part of the dating game, and has unfortunately become part of the marriage game. Marriages from dating sites are more successful than the norm. Why is this? Because the dating sites encourage its users to eliminate the 'fronts', and be honest about themselves. They match people up with things they have in common, which is the real predictor of a successful relationship, as opposed to who 'catches your eye'.

Those who don't outright tell their partners of their CDing habit aren't exactly lying, but instead not being upfront about a personal issue. Society is just beginning to accept alternative lifestyles, but even today there is still a general stigma, with a loud voice against these lifestyles. Many are in the closet to their parents, siblings and best friends. Does this mean that they hate all these people they care about? Not at all. It means many feel that people just don't understand, and that it's better to create a don't ask don't tell policy, than to air everything in the open, and become ostracized on one's community.

In reality, nobody is 'perfect'. Nobody completely fits the mold of the perfect mate. Everybody has their quirks, flaws, or whatever you may call them. Yes, a GG may discover after 15 years of marriage that he gains pleasure from dressing up like a woman, and you didn't know about it...is that really the worst possible secret a man can be hiding? You be the judge. Sorry for the rant, it's passed midnight, so forgive me if I come off incoherent:blah:

With Love,

Michelle

Patty B.

08-12-2010, 02:54 AM

I totally get the BC/AD time frame being in a somewhat similar but also different situation, and can only wish you the best as time goes on. About one year later we are still working through this, married almost 30 years.

08-13-2010, 09:35 PM

Those who don't outright tell their partners of their CDing habit aren't exactly lying, but instead not being upfront about a personal issue.I don't think this is about lying at all. It's about suffering. If you're willing to suffer for the rest of your life to maintain a relationship, that's your business. Whether that's a smart move is up for debate.

Tammy V

09-25-2010, 01:38 PM

This why I really really fear telling my wife about my fem side. I know she has her suspisions, but possibly your case is an example of why telling the SO may not always be a good idea. Or is it? Girls, what do you think??

AKAMichelle

09-25-2010, 01:57 PM

As a number of people have said, this depends so much on the individual, no one size fits all. The 'tell her, tell her, the truth shall set you free' chant is hypnotic, and can potentially blind one to realities of human imperfection.

I personally don't see how one can 'take it slow'. You're either a cross-dresser or you're not. You can't tell your SO you're a little bit of a cross-dresser (or can you?), without potentially lying more right then and there. Kind of a catch 22.

I guess I'm no longer very well qualified to talk about the 'Not Tell' path. During the first ten minutes my wife did say 'Some things are better left untold' or something similar, so don't ask don't tell might be the best answer for some. Again, your mileage will vary.

I do think the printed letter was a bit of a bungle on my part. I should have used note cards with points in order that I wanted to express. If I had done that, I could have steered the conversation early in one direction or another, perhaps saving a major part of the revelations for another time without actually lying, thereby softening that first day's impact on my wife. But then again, that might have just stretched out the inevitable. Who knows?

We all make mistakes in our lives. Sometimes what feels like failure can lead us to success. I as one of the tell your spouse crowd who does understand how your judgment can be clouded at a critical time. Telling your spouse is never easy and unfortunately we don't have an "Easy" button or one of those trix extra moments. I told my wife and the conversation limited itself and it took some time before she learned all of it. I told her for a different reason than most. My marriage was on crutches and I hoped it would start a dialogue which could lead to mending a broken marriage. All that I suceeded in doing was hastening the end.

I would rather tell everything to the spouse and dealt with the consequences than continue living a lie. A lie is a lie. I think every marriage should be founded in trust and honesty and anything that violates either of those 2 things is a problem. You can't turn off cd'ing, but lets hope you will be the first. But I personally believe once a cd'er always a cd'er. You just may not crossdress very often but it is a part of you. To deny that part is impossible. You can put it on the shelf if you want but you must at least accept yourself to understand who you are and find ways of dealing with it.

Christy_M

09-25-2010, 06:24 PM

I am firmly in the camp that the decision to tell or not to tell depends on your own situation. There isn't a one size fits all answer to this. I never told my 2nd wife and she never found out. I told my first wife early but our relationship was doomed for other reasons and ended after ten yaers. My current wife found out five years ago and asked me to promise to either give up dressing or her. I chose trying to give up dressing.

This decision made me a worse person. More irriatable, less engaged in family activities, short fused, depressed, etc. I kew my wife and I were headed for divorce regardless of telling her I couldn't stay the course with not dressing. The decision was more that if the marriage was going to end, it would end on my terms and not hers. The conversation was not pleasant but the time since telling her has gone well. She doesn't want anything to do with my dressing including hearing about it. She doesn't want to lose her husband which is a good sign but she also doesn't feel she is being true to herself if she acepts this part of her husband. She is now as torn as I have been most of my life.

Your situation (OP) is unique like everyone else's situation. IMO, anyone else looking to this string for advice on whether to tell or not to tell should consider many other factors before acting on information here. How much do you love your SO? How long have you been together? Has there ever been an indication the relationship would end for this or any other reason? Are you trying to preserve your relationship or add the final straw to something already on its way out? There are so many other things to consider.

We are all individuals with similar stories and experiences. That is the extent of it, just similar. There isn't one other person on this forum that has had an identical life experience to anyone else. what is best for you depends on you. Using the advice here as your sole source of information before acting would do you and your SO a huge disservice.

I have gained so much perspective from this forum over the past couple months. I feel I am a better person becasue of it. I have also developed my own opinions about the people who post on this site. There are plenty of people who are so interested in making people feel good about themselves and wanting to support them and give them guidance and share valueable insights. These people have been a godsend for me and I am sure many others. There are also people on this forum who have had a very rough life and IMO try to bring other people into their own misery. It might make them feel better about themselves to know others are just as miserable. I am not a therapist so that is only my opinion.

Knowing that these two opposing perspectives are out there, you should take the information you read with a grain of salt, look at how it would play out in your own life and then decide which path is best for you. Being accepted for who we are is such an important aspect of this site. Being manipulated into doing something out of character will be something you regret for a long time.

...I'm just sayin' is all...and now I turn the soap box over to someone else - who's next?