Interesting Topic About Pronouns...

[AliciaJordan]

In one of the other sections there was talk about what if your little girl wanted to dress like a boy or be a boy. Ze talked about the use of pronouns, which I made a reply about "she will always be daddy's little girl". Which Ze replied:

"This makes me quite sad, knowing my own struggles with my father. It is hard; I empathize with that. But it's also hard for others to accept you. And either they accepted you or abandoned you. Those are unfortunately the two choices in the end, difficult or not. We can all identify with that."

So I wanted to ask you guys this. As a father myself have I offend you by my statement? I did mention that I would change the pronoun use and call them he/him/his/etc...but in my mind and heart "she will always be daddy's little girl". Sorry but hopefully this will explain it.

As a person trying to figure out my own MTF'ness, I would hope that my children will still have me in their life. If I follow through with my feelings and go all the way, will that make me their mother? Of course they will hopefully call me she/her/etc...but I would never want them to think of me as anything but their father/dad. Their mother is their mother, she earned that right, I didn't.

Now to be fair, if either of my two boys came to me as MTF's, I would still see them as my little boys. That is something that I will always see when I see them. Even when they are all grown up, I still have images in my head of them cuddling with me watching TV or a movie.

As a father that loves his kids more than anything, it is hard to let go of that little child. I know I have to but I don't want to at the sametime. I have talked with other fathers, that seem like tough strong men, still look at the kids (teenagers & up...) as that little kid that came running to them to protect them from monsters.

[Ze]

Hi again, Alicia. :) Since you pretty much already know my stance, I'll let the other guys give you their own answers.

For those who want to keep up, this (http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=137096) was the original thread, pertaining to posts 20 and 21.

[Adam]

for my folks i WAS there little girl as in they still have old pictures of my all over the house in dresses still say my old name when talking about me in the old pictures even use she ect im ok with that but when they talk in the here and now they say he and son.

They both say they only now see me as there son but this took 3 years after coming out and a year on hormones to get to them seeing me nothing but there son.

as i sit here in our hallway i am near 3 pictures of me as a child in horrid girl stuff but i think thats fine too i need to let my folks have there pictures of there little girl but to be fair there is also male pictures of me aswell.

[Kieron Andrew]

for my folks i WAS there little girl as in they still have old pictures of my all over the house in dresses still say my old name when talking about me in the old pictures even use she ect im ok with that but when they talk in the here and now they say he and sonthats basically the same as my mother she says he (hasn't said son yet but im okay with that)....but when referring to me to other ppl or talking about me in the past tense she says her little girl or daughter, just because i chose to transition to make doesnt mean i wasnt her daughter so i do get it...its hard for parents to transition with us sometimes

[Ze]

Now that I can comprehend: past versus present. I'll admit I wouldn't be too tickled about them reminiscing about the past like that since I myself found my past incredibly uncomfortable (and hence am uncomfortable about it being discussed, seeing pictures, etc as it's a painful time for me), but if they referred to me now as "she" or "daughter"...yeah no. That's not cool. All it does is keep my wounds open or reopen them when I'm around people that insist on using such terminology.

To me, it's an unfortunate cultural misunderstanding at birth that has finally been cleared up with transition or coming-out. To me, that's the way it should be handled until we can get rid of such genital stereotypes.

[Fab Karen]

As a person trying to figure out my own MTF'ness, I would hope that my children will still have me in their life. If I follow through with my feelings and go all the way, will that make me their mother? Of course they will hopefully call me she/her/etc...but I would never want them to think of me as anything but their father/dad. Their mother is their mother, she earned that right, I didn't.

How someone thinks of you & how they address you can be different things. But you do have a right to be respected in your gender-identity. The past exists only as a memory- regardless of being TG, a person at age 25 is not the same person they were age 5, and 45 not the same the person they were at 25. You can refer to past things in past labels, but in the present show respect for who they are now.

[AliciaJordan]

Thanks for the answers guys. This is very good information.

As I said, I would call her by her new pronouns, he/him/his/etc...but in my mind and only in my mind she would that little girl cuddling up to me at night. Same for my boys.

Now some mentioned family pictures, which my parents do have all over their place and so do we. Would you prefer your parents to hide/remove your older pictures when you visit? Would it be okay for them to keep them up when you're not around? Or do you prefer or wish they get rid of them all together?

I haven't thought about this too much in my case as I am just coming to terms with that myself. Would it bug me if they kept my little boy pictures up, even if I came over? I don't know. As it is, I don't think my parents would or will talk to me when I come out to them. My parents are old school, boys are boys and girls are girls, no ifs ands or buts about it. Even if I explained that I have a female brain, they wouldn't believe it.


How someone thinks of you & how they address you can be different things. But you do have a right to be respected in your gender-identity. The past exists only as a memory- regardless of being TG, a person at age 25 is not the same person they were age 5, and 45 not the same the person they were at 25. You can refer to past things in past labels, but in the present show respect for who they are now.

I agree with you on that and have said I would respect their current place in this world, male or female. But in my mind, even if they stay in their birth gender, they will be that little boy or little girl to me. My oldest is 13 and I still see him as that little boy using his water paints to paint all over me. I treate him like a teenager and help him to grow, but something in me doesn't want to let go of that little kid.

[7sisters]

Alicia! I'm a gg so this post is not addressed to me, but I want you to read this by activist Raven Kaldera's daughter. Don't let the title mislead you. the article is about how they as a family handled Raven Kaldera's transition.
http://www.ravenkaldera.org/activism/tgparent.html
From what you write, I think you are super affectionate parent.

[AliciaJordan]

Alicia! I'm a gg so this post is not addressed to me, but I want you to read this by activist Raven Kaldera's daughter. Don't let the title mislead you. the article is about how they as a family handled Raven Kaldera's transition.
http://www.ravenkaldera.org/activism/tgparent.html
From what you write, I think you are super affectionate parent.

Thank-you for that, it really means a lot. :)

That article is great. I am going to foward that to my wife to read and keep a record for when the time comes to tell my family.

[Lex]

I could understand how as a parent it would be difficult to thing of your child as one gender when you've always thought of them as another. I would find it difficult if either of my parents decided to transition. I guess because you've known that person for so long.

But if I were to transition, I would hope that neither parent would ever say, "You'll always be my little girl." That would be so hard for me to think that they could never adjust to the change. Sure, they could remember the girl I was, they could cherish the daughter they had, as long as they accept and cherish equally the son that took her place.

And actually, my dad often comments to my sister and I about how he wishes we were still little girls and even that stings. Does he love me as a child more than as an adult? It feels that way when he says things like that.

[Kaden]

I could understand how as a parent it would be difficult to thing of your child as one gender when you've always thought of them as another. I would find it difficult if either of my parents decided to transition. I guess because you've known that person for so long.

But if I were to transition, I would hope that neither parent would ever say, "You'll always be my little girl." That would be so hard for me to think that they could never adjust to the change. Sure, they could remember the girl I was, they could cherish the daughter they had, as long as they accept and cherish equally the son that took her place.

And actually, my dad often comments to my sister and I about how he wishes we were still little girls and even that stings. Does he love me as a child more than as an adult? It feels that way when he says things like that.

Well said.

I can understand where other comments about it being accepted are coming from but for me I would cringe if a comment about always being their little girl was directed at me. It's not who I am, and it's not who I was. For me the biggest issue with being trans is that if people see me as a girl then they do not see me, not the real me anyway.

My father isn't a well man so I would always allow him more leeway as he probably can't quite comprehend things but my mother or siblings making comments like that wouldn't be cool. If they wish to think of me in that way then fine but out of respect I would hope they wouldn't tell me so. In my mind it would diminish their acceptance of who I really am.

[AliciaJordan]

And actually, my dad often comments to my sister and I about how he wishes we were still little girls and even that stings. Does he love me as a child more than as an adult? It feels that way when he says things like that.

I can't speak for your father, but I feel the same way about my 3 kids. It doesn't mean I love them more as little kids then I do at this stage in their life or even later. When they are under 5 their eyes light up whenever you enter the room. They can make a crappy day at work seem worth it when you come in that door running to you and saying "I missed you today.". They look at you like you know everything and can fix everything. At that stage in their life, you are the centre of their universe.

As parents we are messed up. We want them to grow and become independent but we don't want to let go. We want them to be happy and explore life. The older they get, the less we as parents become as important. Friends take that place. Does that mean the kids love us less the older they get?

Love for the kids never changes.

[7sisters]

I think it all boils down to one thing: feelings of loss a parent may feel. Even as transfolks rejoice in being reborn during their transition, their parents are slowly burying a lot of assumptions they had of their kid. And it's very painful. It may feel to them, like they've lost their kid forever. You and I know it's not true, but parents need some convincing.

I guess transpeople have to do the tough job of constantly reminding their parents they are the same person inside that they ALWAYS were. And that they will always love their parents more and more everyday. Parents are the biggest children! they need constant reassurance. I think one you soothe them, they will be more willing to make the pronoun change.

Hi Alicia how are you? Here's how another family structure dealt with transition:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2010/apr/10/transsexual-adoption-multiple-sclerosis

[AnonyMouse]

I'm really of two minds about this.

On the one hand, I hate the concept that goes along with the saying. Basically it seems to mean "Well, it doesn't matter what you do, I'm the one who gets to decide who you are." It smacks of controllingness and other such nonsense.

On the other hand, if my mom said that to me I wouldn't be very upset at all. She's a very sentimental person, and loves to reminisce on the times when her adult children were small and adorable. She knows we're adults; she's just fond of the memories. Frankly, if she told me that I would always be her little girl, I would take it as a high compliment, because it meant she was willing to reconcile the person I was becoming with the person she used to know.