I keep reading this

[Pythos]

Several times I have read something along the lines that women are just as restricted as men when it comes to clothing styles.

This has me baffled.

My experience has shown me women have FAR more choice than men when it comes to clothing styles and designs.

In this post I am not talking about full on presentation as the opposite sex. I am talking about just wearing of clothing items of the opposite sex.

Here is an example. This morning I need to go to the DMV. I would prefer to wear a nice black skirt, hose, and nice shoes (maybe heels), with a nice shirt. (all the items will be ones marketed to men aside from the skirt and heels if I wear them) I would like to wear these as a male. Not as a female.

Essentially do as women do every day. Wear the opposite gender's clothing, but presenting as my sex.

Now, realistically, can I do that? Can I do that without some Jack Wagon thinking of beating me up or ridiculing me? Remember I want to go to the DMV wearing what I like.

I put it to you a female would have the choice between a similar outfit, or Jeans and t-shirt. She could also wear a pants suit, skirt suit, shorts, and so on.

How about, instead of the DMV, I want to go out on a date. If I showed up wearing a skirt opposed to pants, I make it much more likely I will be rejected. But if the woman does that and wears pants instead of a skirt, a man would not reject her outright.

Are women really more restricted than men?

Now I am not referring to those rude behaviors some of the male of the species think it is their god given right to do (groping a woman because of how tight her skirt is, or how her boobs are displayed) Men for the most part need to learn some self control. I would not dream of just blatantly grabbing some girl's behind just because I can. In fact I want to deck guys that act like that. (by the way this behavior is not isolated to just men, I personally know of women that act like this too, if it is not asked for, then it is rude no matter who does it)

[Stephenie S]

Until you walk a mile in our shoes, hon.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know you wore my heels last week.

If your only criterion is pants vs skirts, you strike out there too. Men can wear skirts, kilts for instance. Spend any time in the city and you may see men wearing skirts. There are men's business suits available with skirts instead of trousers.

I often tell the story of the fellow I saw a few years ago in Barnes and Noble. He was a big guy with a full beard, a plaid shirt, a leather vest, work boots, and a cute navy pleated skirt. No one was paying him any mind at all and I am sure he was headed for the DMV when he was through shopping at B&N.

If wearing the skirt is so important to you, wear the darn skirt. That's how women got to wear pants, you know. They just wore 'em and the public opinion be darned.

I am so sick of these posts that complain of how easy women have it in the clothes department. It just ain't true at all, dear. Until you do it you will never know. Your own guilt and insecurity is showing dear. Why not put some energy into doing what YOU want instead of complaining about how easy someone else's life is.

Men and women share the SAME social constraints, dear. We both are subject to public opinion. But if you are not willing to stand by your own beliefs, you will not make any progress. Women may be a bit more brave than men. They wanted to wear pants, so they just did it. If you really want to wear a skirt in public (and I understand, a skirt is WAY more comfy) then you have to just DO it.

Stephie

[Jill]

I'd be interested to know where you keep reading this but it is obviously ridiculous. The sky is the limit for women when it comes to clothing. A woman could show up to work in a mens dress suit with the tie and everything and her female coworkers would probably tell her that she looks cute.

I also harbor this belief that men in general are patiently enduring a subtle onslaught that we, as men, are oppressive. And if you pay attention tot he media and what you hear and read, you will often catch undertones that men and males in this society are oppressive bullies trying to hold women down. To me, this idea that women's clothing is restricted is just another attempt to paint men in a negative light.

[Pythos]

Here is one example.

http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2231097#post2231097

Post 34.

Just look more up. They are out there.

to Stephenie S

I did say in my post I was excluding kilts. So kilts do not count in this discussion. Oh and if I showed up at my job in a kilt, I would face ridicule!!. If the female instructor showed up in said, it would be an accepted costume.


"If wearing the skirt is so important to you, wear the darn skirt. That's how women got to wear pants, you know. They just wore 'em and the public opinion be darned. "

Do you do as you say? If not, then do not be so quick to tell me to do it. It is not important for me to wear a skirt. But I have stuff I have worked hard for, and sacrificed a lot for. I do not want to run the risk of losing it all due to some other person's ignorance. But I also don't like hiding.

I would like the freedom to wear one if I choose to do so.


"I am so sick of these posts that complain of how easy women have it in the clothes department. It just ain't true at all, dear. Until you do it you will never know. Your own guilt and insecurity is showing dear. Why not put some energy into doing what YOU want instead of complaining about how easy someone else's life is."

this is another classic example of what this post was about. My post was not a complaint either, it was one to get people to really look, and examine.

Oh, and the condescending "dear" is completely unappreciated.

[Joanne f]

Just purely talking about clothes in general terms Pythos has a point , forget about presenting as anything just change i item on each , if the man gave the woman his trousers and the woman gave the man her plain long skirt and they both walked out the man would get more stairs and abuse than the woman would .

[Emma England]

I agree with Stephanie.

I have often worn skirts out in public as a man - even to one of my jobs.

No one has EVER stared or made any comments.

The fear is really in your own head.

Oh, look at my signature below, which is very appropriate for this thread.

[Wiccle]

It's a shame there is such inequality, but there is. I'd love to go out in a skirt but I value my life + integrity more & certainly in this particular part of the world there is a very high risk I would be VERY badly approached.

[Miss Misery]

Emma England,

I don't doubt any of your personal experiences but that's all that they are - your personal experiences. Pythos doesn't have the same job or live in the same place that you do so his experience can (and likely will) be totally different.

The "It's all in your head" stuff is what gets people into trouble - go check out the thread by Giorgi RE: telling your SO. He heard all the voices of accepting SO's in threads on here BUT his experience was NOT SO ACCEPTING.

Remember - your mileage may vary.

[Joanne f]

I have worn skirts in public as a man and i have suffered abuse because of it
a great deal of abuse which lasted many years so i do see things from that angle , it all depends on where you live some place `s will accept it some wont .

[Ze]

I see how it is. Threads on such topics are closed, so a new one is started up?

For the last damn time, how about opening your eyes and ears before you open your mouth.

[ReineD]

I'm sneaking in here past Ze just to make one point to Pythos.

You are equating a GM wearing clothing designed and tailored for women (which is not generally accepted in our society), to a GG wearing clothing designed and tailored for women (which is perfectly acceptable).

:dh2:

You are comparing apples to oranges. Is this so hard to understand?

You could wear a kilt in places where kilts are worn on a regular basis, and no one would look at you sideways. Why? Because a kilt is a skirt that is designed and tailored for a man.

In order for your comparison to be valid, you'd have to contrast M2Fs presenting as female with F2Ms presenting male. I think you do understand that it is just as difficult for a birth female who is F2M to be looked upon favorably when he wears men's clothes and presents as a man as it is for you to do the same but in reverse.

You need to stop comparing apples to oranges, and realize that when you do it is being insensitive to the F2Ms here. You minimize the struggles they face, the same struggles that you do.