Beginning of the end???

[ReneeT]

my wife has known for 20+ yrs about my crossdressing - since before we were married. It has been a rocky course, as she is 100% unaccepting. Our relationship has been marred by my dishonesty, as i have actively concealed my incresing involvement in this "lifestyle" The fact is, though, that i am comfortable in my knowledge that i am TS, not simply a cd-er (as if that is simple). At any rate, I have been more open with her in the last 6 months, per her request. As I am attending SCC, i knew i had to tell her in advaance. I did so last night. She took it very hard, as another sign that things are escalating. In resonse, she is going home to her parents for the weekend to think things over. At some level, tthis may be the best for the both of us. as undoubtedly more heartbreak awaits her in our relationship......

Life can be difficult. . ..

[sandra-leigh]

Consider inviting her to SCC along with you.

I know you said she 100% disapproves, but if you do not invite her then there is a serious possibility that she will be picturing you partying wildly and having sex every night.

If she doesn't want to consider going to SCC itself, then consider the possibility of a compromise where the two of you get a hotel reasonably near the event and you "come home to her" every evening and maybe spend a day or two sight-seeing with her when you could have been at the convention. It might mean that on her part she'd end up seeing you dressing up or dressed up, but that might be a lot easier on her than having her think you're hooking on the streets all night while she is hundreds of miles away.

[kimdl93]

Sorry to hear this, Renee. Well, in a way, its good that she took a weekend to mull things over. I would hate to see a marriage end, but on the other hand, I don't think its fair to you to hide any longer, or pretend for her sake. I guess we'll just have to see what she has to say when she comes back next week.

[yazooey]

Hey Renee,

I'm sorry to hear how things are progressing for you and your wife. I could only imagine how difficult it must be to be open and honest with someone you are very close and who is not accepting of what you are being honest about.

Keep in there and I hope everything works out.

[docrobbysherry]

After being to SCC, I can varify that it is NOT a fetish event! And is very spouse friendly!:thumbsup:

On the other hand;
I expect after 20+ years together, your dressing is NOT the only issue to come up between u 2!?:brolleyes:

So hopefully, u 2 will work THIS out in the same manner you've handled the OTHER issues!?:straightface:

[shannonFL]

Renee, with the highest level of empathy, our wives must be sisters, my early september plans have not yet been revealed to her...and I am doubting the wisdom of my policy of total honesty...which only fails anyway, it just sux!
Look, If we meet each other there, we sure have a lot in common.:hugs:

[Inna]

Hey babe, life works in mysterious ways and if the course must take you away then be it, I have learned that in order to stay true to your self, often you must follow the path
leading away from others, sometimes loved ones, however if they truly love us they will understand and in a long run the relationship may grow ever stronger. I am heading now where there is no answers, perhaps you are in the same moment in time, but as long as we are truthful and honest that road will take us to a better place.

[LisaM]

Renee,

I truly feel for both you and your spouse. My wife struggles as well but probably less than your wife.

I agree with Sandra-Leigh--invite her to SCC with you. I took my spouse to the Texas T years ago and she became more comfortable (although not truly accepting--she knows that it is a real issue with me). She will meet other spouses with different degrees of accepting and I believe that most will be much more accepting than her.

Unless there are other issues in your marriage I think it would be worth a try.

[Sara Jessica]

Renee, I totally feel for you in this situation. It mirrors something that I went through a few years ago. While I've known the absolute truth about myself since my earliest memories, I allowed my wife to believe it was "just a dressing thing" in my disclosure a mere three months into our dating relationship.

The road you are about to travel will be a rocky one. Will your relationship survive this deeper disclosure? Time will tell. What I can tell you is that while inviting her to SCC isn't necessarily a bad idea in and of itself, it is an invitation which any woman in such a situation (& feelings towards the TG thing as you describe) would be highly unlikely to accept. In the last few years or so, I have gently, and even not so gently attempted to get my wonderful wife to "meet" Sara and thus far she has declined. This is coming from someone who I would describe as tolerant but decidedly non-participating.

Regardless, I wish you the best Renee. I am here to help in any way I can.

[renee k]

Hi Renee,

I understand your situation and sincerely hope it all works out in the end. Having been in your shoes eighteen years ago and after twenty years of marriage. My crossdressing was one of the issues dividing us, although not the only one. In my case being away from home for long lengths of time and different family backgrounds, were at the core of our differences. We tried counseling, weekends away from the kids, to get our marriage back on track. But to no avail. We weren't able to find middle ground on our issues, compromise is something that both people must come to, to make a marriage work. Also educating oneself on the issues is another to arrive at a compromise, if one is not willing learn what the your partner is feeling you can't comprehend, or understand to arrive at some middle ground. My spouse wasn't willing to learn about my crossdressing nor was there much out there about it at the time. I was selfish about it as well and wasn't willing give in either. The end result is my being single, being able to do what I want to do. But not being totally happy with myself, as a person. Sometimes we need some grounding and come to terms with ourselves and our lives. Once again, I sincerely hope it all works out for you.

Renee

[Jodi]

Renee, Your case sounds very much like mine 10 years ago. It sounds like a separation and divorce could be eminent. Start now to get ready. You don't want to be blind sided. It can be extremely stressful. You want to keep your wits about you at all times. Watch what you say, do, write or sign. Have the number ready for a very good lawyer. The divorce itself is just a piece of paper to sign. The really tough part is the property settlement and, if minor children are involved, the custody issue. Lawyers on both sides can be very brutal. Once the lawyers are involved all bets are off.

I might sound cynical, but I have been there. I was up front with my lawyer about my being a cd. He said it would not be an issue in any property settlement. Fortunately, there was no custody issue in mine as my child was over 18. My being a cd was never brought up. It could come up for you if there is a custody issue.

best of luck.

Jodi

[sandra-leigh]

What I can tell you is that while inviting her to SCC isn't necessarily a bad idea in and of itself, it is an invitation which any woman in such a situation (& feelings towards the TG thing as you describe) would be highly unlikely to accept.

Yes, but you make the invitation anyways, so that if she declines it is through her choice rather than through you blocking her out.


I bought a pair of tickets for our local club's anniversary dinner, knowing that my wife wouldn't go, but unable to keep myself from wishing she would, and in the meantime straining through my mind of who else I might possibly ask. I postponed and I postponed, and finally the week of the dinner, I forced myself to ask if she would go -- forced myself so that I could get the self-torture over with and get onwards with my depression. So I asked, and she thought for a few seconds and said, "Okay." :eek: Not "Yeck!" or "Do I have to?!", just agreed to go. Here I'd been all depressed about how she would never go, and then depressed again because I didn't have any friends to invite, and it was all useless fretting, as she didn't mind going.

To be honest, she found the evening kinda boring -- but it was the "Pish! Okay, so it was bit odd, but nothing happens!" kind of reassuring boredom. That and she saw how much work I put in helping with the event... saw that it was important to me and gave me some sense of purpose. So "harmless" and "gives something useful to do and some self respect": I could have told her those things till I was blue(r) in the face, but for her to see them for herself cemented her "Why worry?" approach.

[suchacutie]

I do hope she has an epiphany before she rejoins you. I do hope that she is able to join you at or near SCC in order to see you in the life that she must actually love since it has been there all the time. My heartfelt hopes for both of you and that she will soon understand that you have so much to offer her by this gift you have.

tina

[AKAMichelle]

This is going to be a very tough road for both of you. I hope both of you find a way to navigate the mine field awaiting both of you on your journey. Since you coming to SCC, and I am tentatively planning on coming if I make it there I hope to run into you.

[Starling]

Good luck, Renee.

:) Lallie

[Aeify]

My heart goes out to you Renee. I am so proud of you for telling her about SCC, I agree it was the right thing to do by extending the invitation. 20 years of unacceptance, I am reminded of a very close friend who had his marriage end after only a couple of years because his wife just thought he'd change once they got married. This friend isn't cd (as far as I know anyway). He just didn't want or do certain things, and the woman knew this and literally said she thought he'd change "when they were married". The worst part to me was that when they got divorced and he had to live in the basement until he'd saved up enough to move out, she did things with guys she "dated" (and brought back to their house), stupid things like watch non-Disney movies with them, horror movies (really stupid I told you). That she refused to do with her spouse. (when they were married) I think maybe some people grow up with an idea of what a married couple is/does and for some reason can NEVER reach the maturity level to understand that everyone's marriage is personal. Not all men take out the garbage and not all women clean the toilets. Gender specific marital roles are best left for tv sitcoms from days gone by like "Leave it to Beaver".
I sincerely hope that on her sabbatical that your wife can at least mature enough to be supportive in some way, like encouraging you to be happy.

[Regina]

Sorry to hear about it Renee, My wife like yours is totally unaccepting I've manage to hide it for years....of course sleeping in seperate bedrooms helps! but it's not a real marriage and it will come to a close in about two years, for many reasons other than dressing. I feel for you though it's tough, asking her to SCC is a good idea. Hope to see you there!



Regina

[ReneeT]

I can't begin to express my grattitude for everyones support. It is clearly heartfelt, and means so much to me. Yes this has, is, and will continue to be difficult. It is probable that separation will be the best for both of us, but will still be difficult, especially for my 15 and 17 year old kids, who know nothing (well, kids are smart - they probably do)

Sandra, your idea of inviting my wife to SCC is a good onee, and i did - kind of half-heartedly. I will ask her again, more directly. Having her stay a night in a nearby hotel is a really good idea. How would i connect her with other SOs?

Sara, i too have tried to introduce Renee to my m\wife, but she has no interest. She also has really done very little to learn about the whole TG topic, and her judgements are based soleey on her small town/rural conservative upbringing.


Renee, your life story is a carbon copy of mine!
Well, thanks agan for everyones support


Aeify, thanks for your thoughts and welcome to the forum. Penny is a lucky gal!!

I hope to meet some if not all of you at SCC


Hugs,

Renee

[Sara Jessica]

What I can tell you is that while inviting her to SCC isn't necessarily a bad idea in and of itself, it is an invitation which any woman in such a situation (& feelings towards the TG thing as you describe) would be highly unlikely to accept.


Yes, but you make the invitation anyways, so that if she declines it is through her choice rather than through you blocking her out.

Right on Sandra.

This is why I phrased it the way I did. If I applied the thought of extending such an invitation to my personal situation, I'd have said that it was an absolutely rotten idea.

Getting our SO's to embrace the idea of education and/or exposure to the TG experience is sometimes a walk in a minefield. Renee had already set the table by saying that her wife is 100% unaccepting. Knowing this fact, I'm guessing the odds of her wife attending SCC are fairly slim. But I agree with the invite. If nothing else, it demonstrates that there is nothing to hide.

[Emily Ann Brown]

Have been in your heels dear. I lost a marriage of 39 years (when the divorce happened). Being TS is not fun or easy. But we do survive. And the peace at the end is almost worth it. I am now happy. And she is happy as well. She took her half of everything and got a house with a POOL....which she has always wanted.

Dear, hang in that. be honest from here out, and let the chips fall where they do. Be a woman with class as hold you head up.


Em

[suchacutie]

Renee,

None of us are sure what might help but we can't stop trying! I had a couple more thoughts:

My wife has said that she was flattered to know that I trusted her enough to share this very vulnerable part of my life with her. It's a big trust issue and playing that side of it might open your wife's eyes a bit.

Also, Renee is not something that suddenly happened, so she must be aware of all the advantages of having a spouse who wants to know all about being feminine. She's not going to get that kind of empathy anywhere else!

and then there is the obvious...or at least obvious to me: there is nothing inherently wrong with men having a soft side, and an active one. The fact is that Renee is the honest manifestation of that softer side that many men just hide away or are embarassed about.

You are stronger than that. She might want to think about that point...

best,

Tina

[Nicole Erin]

Damn girl you been married 20 years? You don't look old enough to have been married that long, I figured you to be maybe mid-30's.

Anyways about the marriage, well fact is a lot of us do eventually lose our spouse over our TG'ness. It is not the overnight process that many closeted TG think, it is more of something that just builds over time, usually years.

It does suck yes, and let me tell you, at first divorce is very hard. I thought I was gonna lose it when it first happened to me but as one recovers, life goes on, it is just the short time before and after that is really rough.

[CandyDarling]

Thats a hard road for sure. I too can relate. I guuess I am not as far along the spectrum as you may be as I have been able to keep my marriage by limiting my activities. It is not that I want to - I love the occasions when I can get together with others like me - I have chosen to tip the balance in her favor to keep my marriage, It is a sacrafice but I feel better knowing that I have some control over my own destiny.

best to you both.[-][/-]

[Sandra]

I really do hope that when your wife gets back she has good news for you. :hugs:

I know we've spoke before in pm about her joining the FAB forum here, it is a pity that she wont as we do have wives/partners who are in a relationship with transsexuals. We don't know all the answers but we could maybe help her to understand a bit more.

[ReneeT]

Well, she did not leave after all, but things have been bad. We reached a crisis point two days ago, and talked seriously about divorce. I am at the end of my tolerance for her utter rejection of me, and i do think it's time. We talked about holding it together for the three hrs until both kids graduate from high school, and that makes sense. She did agree to see a counselor or psychologist, and i see this as a positive sign. I gave her some names today from my psychologist. Woww, is this tough!

[Regina]

Hi Renee,


I think your making the right decision to keep your marriage together until your kids graduate....that is the only reason I'm still married. The High School/Teen years can be tough enough with out adding the divorce of two parents into the mix. Kids are smart, mine realizes that both his parents don't get along, I told him these things happen but you have two parents that love you very much and care about you...and that's what matters.

Good luck!




Regina

[ReneeT]

Regina,

I appreciate yore perspective. They are sound words.

My wife is from central Ohio. Is this a pattern????

[Gerrijerry]

I trully understand what you are going thru and what she is feeling. All I can say is hope it works out for both of you so that you are both happy.
I told my wife and did what was suggested took her to a support meeting. She went with me many times until she realized That I was not meeting other guys for sex. She talked to other wifes at the support group also. We attended counseling together for a while and talked for years about it. In the end I guess I was lucky because she finally said what worried her the most was being embaressed that people would see me male then female. She was worried about family and friends finding out. Well she told our best friends I didn't want to be she insisted. They are still our best friends. She told of kids turns out no problem there either.
We will soon be moving to a new home in another state. And to my surprise she told me that when we moved I will have to be full time female since that would be the easiest for her. As she put it. At least she didn't have to deal with the changing and getting caught. Of course being TS as per the counselor I am looking forward to the full time change. Right now I have been full time except when she feels I need to be in male mode. Which meant she wanted me to go to work and do just about everything dressed female. She told me that she wants this so I would understand that I will not be dressing male again. This all from a wife who at first didn't want to even talk about it in the beginning.

[nancigirl]

Gerri, I am really happy for you that after all of these years of being a part-time girl, you will soon begin your retirement years dressing as a woman on a fulltime basis permanently.
It sounds like your wife has given this a great deal of thought and made what seems like a very rational decision that you are soon to dress enfemme fulltime. But i can also understand that you may be just a bit nervous about this major and 'forever' change in your life. From what you have said in your postings though, i think you are very well prepared for the change, even if your wife had to nudge you toward it.

[Regina]

Geeez!.....so's mine. We must talk at SCC


Regina

[Starling]

My wife refuses to read or talk about CD or TS, which leaves me out there twisting in the wind. I think some of it has to do with what she thinks her friends and family would think, and some of it comes from a belief that my nature is a sign of her inadequacy as a woman, which is not true, of course. After all, I was TS thirty years before we ever met.

I may have to undertake some direct action to get us off the dime.

:) Lallie

PS: My wife is not from central Ohio.

[Sara Jessica]

I think some of it has to do with what she thinks her friends and family would think, and some of it comes from a belief that my nature is a sign of her inadequacy as a woman, which is not true, of course.

There is a lot of validity in our SO's feeling these things. The thought of disclosure to others, whether voluntary or involuntary, leaves my wife stone cold. Like it or not, right or wrong, who we are reflects on our spouses, at least in the eyes of society at large. As for the inadequacy thing, it's a real emotional response that can be hard to overcome. All we can do is be loving and as reassuring as possible, something that is most difficult if communication on this subject has left the building.


Well, she did not leave after all, but things have been bad. We reached a crisis point two days ago, and talked seriously about divorce. I am at the end of my tolerance for her utter rejection of me, and i do think it's time. We talked about holding it together for the three hrs until both kids graduate from high school, and that makes sense. She did agree to see a counselor or psychologist, and i see this as a positive sign. I gave her some names today from my psychologist. Woww, is this tough!

It is tough Renee, and it seems like a good sign that there's a willingness to keep things together for the kid's sake. With time, learning, counseling and communication, your relationship certainly could prosper again.

[AKAMichelle]

Regina,

I appreciate yore perspective. They are sound words.

My wife is from central Ohio. Is this a pattern????

I know what you mean by small town conservative views. My wife was fundamental independent baptist and she wouldn't budge. We are even from TN. I think the south in a lot of ways is less tolerant than other parts of the country. I hope you and your wife find a way to work through this. Divorce is hard on everybody.

[Starling]

...All we can do is be loving and as reassuring as possible, something that is most difficult if communication on this subject has left the building...

I can be loving and reassuring till the cows come home, Sara Jessica, but as long as my SO won't even so much as read anything about gender, much less talk to me about it, she remains in a state of denial which I will extend indefinitely by acquiescing.

That's why I think I have to break the logjam, one way or another. Otherwise I'll go nuts.

:) Lallie

[ReneeT]

Lallie,

My wife is similar to yours in that she essentially refuses to educate herself on the subject of cd/tg/ts. As such, she has a very limited understanding, based wholly on her own feelings and the popular media (Jerry springer, etc). This has prevented her from moving forward and developing a more informed/ enlightened perspective. It really makes discussion difficult:sad:

[Sara Jessica]

Renee & Lallie, please allow me to share with you what I go through each and every day in both my heart and my head.

I wake up in the morning with a sense of optimism for the day to come. Perhaps this will be the day she might open up a bit more. That we might communicate in a positive way on the TG subject. Or that the day might be coming where she would actually want to meet this part of me.

Then as the day moves along, reality sets in, whether it's simply life that happens or whatever, I invariably go to sleep that night with a slight sense of disappointment that today wasn't the day, only to wake up the next morning with optimism renewed.

Why am I in this perpetual cycle? Because the one person who I love and adore the most in this world, my soulmate, my best friend, is unable to open herself up to share, at least a little bit, this integral part of my being.

[Starling]

I think your making the right decision to keep your marriage together until your kids graduate....that is the only reason I'm still married...



...she has a very limited understanding, based wholly on her own feelings and the popular media...It really makes discussion difficult:sad:


...the one person who I love and adore the most in this world, my soulmate, my best friend, is unable to open herself up to share, at least a little bit, this integral part of my being.

It's heartbreaking, isn't it? I yearn for my wife and me to be able to dig deep into our souls and hash things out honestly, with love, so that instead of living a ghost life we can find a way to be who we really are, together! If we can't do that, I don't see much hope.

:daydreaming: Lallie

[nancigirl]

Dear Gerri,
I think it is wonderful that, with the support of your wife, you will soon start to present fulltime as a woman. As i thought about the plans you have made for your upcoming retirement, a question came to mind.
In most of the retirement communities with which i am familiar, the vast majority of residents are married male-female couples. There are also a substantial number of widows, and a few widowers as well.
The other types of households i have seen among the retirees are: single brother and sister living together; or two sisters; or mother and single daughter, etc.

Sooo...My question is what is your wife and you plan as to what to tell your new neighbors is the nature of your relationship when you are both presenting as women? e.g., "sisters", or some other idea.

The reason i ask this is that i saw from your previous postings that your wife made the decision that you would go fulltime, with no going back to male mode, at the time of your move. And her primary(?) reason was/is that she wants to simplify your lives and not having you perceived as a male one time, and a female (or a male en femme) at another time. So i would think that she would also want a plausible explanation as to why two women are housemates in a retirement community.

btw, How soon will you be retiring and moving to your new place?

Nancy

[LitaKelley]

I wish you luck and support, and hope all works out for you. Follow your heart and go where it takes you.

[5150 Girl]

Yep, sounds like my ex. One day she left me, (mostly for finachal reasons) then I met my Polar Bear. 100% suport!