Burning Hatered....

[Myojine]

Unlike many people here(maybe...) who believe that violence isnt an action....
I have violent tendancies...
Not agaisnt anyone who is undeserving mind you, no one innocent and kind should deserve what others lash upon them unjustly
No violent tendancies towards people who spread hate and opression.

Im seriously sick of the undeserving bigotry. the predjudice and tryranical over sear of religious opression and hate.

I am not a peaceful person when it comes to someone innocent being hurt for no reason.
in fact
im downright violent.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38671236/ns/us_news-life/?gt1=43001
http://gender.org/remember/about/core.html
And manythings on Lauras play ground.
Im so sick of seeing this. Im so sick of people treating LGBTQ people like theyre all trash and worthless.
and i feel what its doing.
i can feel the hate inside.
it burns my very spirit.

i dont know... but maybe its because i was taught how to kill without remorse...and i only added my personal values that.
I believe that everyone deserves to be happy and free and if innocent stand free of opression and segregation.


its wrong, its so wrong that i should feel this way...but it isnt without warrent...
i guess one of my questions is... why dont more people like us feel this way? or maybe some do but like me wont take action because... i dunno... real life ramifications? maybe we have something to live for... or maybe we're just too tolerant to snap?
i dont understand, my eyes are blinded by hate of those who spread unwarrented pain...

[kellycan27]

Im seriously sick of the undeserving bigotry. the predjudice and tryranical over sear of religious opression and hate.

I am not a peaceful person when it comes to someone innocent being hurt for no reason.
in fact
im downright violent.

Perpetrating violence against the people you speak of, not only affects them ,but also their "innocent" loved ones.. so what would be the difference between you and the people you wish to hurt? Would it be ok because you were on the side of right? Violence is not the answer, violence hurts everyone involved....including you.:2c:

Kel

[Pattie O]

"The pen is mightier than the sword "
"Violence begets violence"
Forgiveness is the only way forward:)

[Melody Moore]

"The pen is mightier than the sword "
"Violence begets violence"
Forgiveness is the only way forward:)
No truer words could ever be spoken, defeat this ignorance in society by always showing them true love. :fairy3:

[7sisters]

My dear friend, it's terrible... I know. But things are so much better now than in the old days. And its only better because people channeled their hatred and anger into positive action and fought the big fight to get rights for the LGBT community. Hatred will only blind you to the good you can do to change these things you are seeing. :hugs:

[Terraforming]

Sometimes violence is the only right answer. Sometimes talking accomplishes nothing, and your only option left is to fight. Are these cases where that's what you should be thinking? That's up to you to decide in the end, but actions you take in anger will almost certainly come back to haunt you. You can't bludgeon through bigotry, especially when it's more than their right to think the way they do. Bashing skulls doesn't fix the problem. All we can do is try to get the people who are possible to sway on our side until the bigots are in the minority and finally shut their mouths.

It may seem like a horrible thing to say. But after the ashes clear the only way forward is forgiveness and acceptance, and unfortunately it goes both ways. In many cases forgiveness is simply impossible, but we'll never make our way in the world if we don't accept ignorant people set in their ways about thinking of us as an unchanging variable. Some people don't change, we have to focus on the people who can.

Now just as a note, I'm not defending the people who commit violence against others. Your right to do what you want ends once your actions harm another individual or their rights in my book. Those people deserve harsh punishments.

[Rianna Humble]

i guess one of my questions is... why don't more people like us feel this way? or maybe some do but like me wont take action because... i dunno... real life ramifications? maybe we have something to live for... or maybe we're just too tolerant to snap?
i don't understand, my eyes are blinded by hate of those who spread unwarranted pain...

I can't speak for anyone other than myself. I detest the actions of those who act out their hatred for us, but I will not respond with hatred because that is a negative emotion that tends to destroy the hater. Also, I refuse to be dragged down to their level.

I will do everything I can to oppose the purveyors of hate short of violence. As others have said, violence against 1 person has consequences for other - often innocent - bystanders. It has also been my experience that violence against an opponent only serves to entrench their hatred, whilst a non-violent opposition can sometimes encourage them to think, and rational thought is the best antidote to blind hatred.

IMNSHO, the twentieth century showed us two really great men - Ghandi and Mandela. Both of those demonstrated how much more you can achieve by non-violent means.

I can understand your feelings and am not trying to belittle them in any way, this is merely an attempt to answer your question from a personal perspective.

[KathyC]

Violence..now i don't even have this word in my dictionary.
I recommand to take some martial art class; learn the pain by recieveing it, and learn "get into a fight because of try to get away from a fight".
I used to shoot handguns & rifles, gut with a Ka-bar, trained by the military to do hard things very often..don't ask me why.
Now I hide all the stuff that I know of, I don't need violence on someone nor myself.
Really learn how to love yourself first, before start hating on everything :2c:
Cheers!

[Teri Jean]

I am in agreement with the others in violence is not the answer. Now if found in a position where you must defend yourself from physical harm, by all means do what is warrented. I read your training for what is is and if it is you only option then again protect yourself. But to go out looking for a fight, no don't do it. You can effect more with the pen than the sword. MHO

[michellesworld]

I never advocate unprovoked violence, but if you need it in self defense, so be it.

I think though using wits can be even better. I remember one group trying to collect signatures to ban divorce because divorce ruins the 'sanctity of marriage'.

The best way to get back is to get under their skin and show them that our community can care less of their bigotry. I say we should hold the biggest PRIDE parade in the heart of Salt Lake City, and pass right by the cult...I mean the Mormon's church.

[Hope]

Try not to become that which you hate.

[KathyC]

The phrase of "get into a fight because of try to get away from a fight", it means many people have tried to avoid into a fight or problems by actually participle into it.

[Veronica_Jean]

Myojine,

Two thoughts come to mind.

“He who seeks vengeance must dig two graves: one for his enemy and one for himself”

“Tell me and I'll forget; show me and I may remember; involve me and I'll understand.”

I feel the same rage at the ignorance and intolerance of those that do not see us as equals. You can follow the path of the first seeking vengeance, and in doing so add to the list of your second link. You can chose to educate those that do not understand through your actions and your life.

We line in a country where both individual rights and freedoms are protected (including the right of free speech) along with the right to freely practice the religion of our choice. This creates areas of law where conflict exists and there will be emotionally charged actions on both sides.

It is difficult for the public to understand that under certain circumstances, their vote does not allow improper laws to stand, including constitutional changes at the state level, if they are on conflict with the US Constitution. This is not the first example of that as the rights of women, blacks, and more have also followed a similar path, with the eventual realization that the will of the people is not the proper way to live in this country if it violates the rights of others.

Religious beliefs and practices that do not conform to the laws of our land must not be allowed to interfere with the manner in which our freedoms are protected, or the manner in which laws can be struck down if they are found to support an ideal that directly harms a portion of the population.

We must be strong and use our knowledge not to strike out and directly harm those that harm us with acts of vengeance, but involve them in our lives, our pain, our difficulties and struggles to be treated equally. Once they realize we are not so different from all of them, it will be obvious that we should have always been given these rights. If we kill them all, all we will achieve is death with no gain and demonstrate that they were right to feel we were immoral.

:2c:

Veronica

[suzy1]

No truer words could ever be spoken, defeat this ignorance in society by always showing them true love. :fairy3:

I have had a conversation with a friend about violence being wrong. Then he asked me what I would do to someone if he raped and murdered my daughter. I said I would kill him, slowly and painfully, and I would!
The potential to be violent is in all of us.

SUZY

[Hope]

The potential to be violent is in all of us.


Sadly, this is true. It is however our restraint, and ability to not act on our baser instincts that makes us decent human beings. Of course, not everyone possesses the capacity to restrain themselves...

[tanyalynn51]

Non- violence seems fine until its you or someone you love, who's life is on the line. Violent blind prejudice of any kind, whether due to sexual orientation, color, or whatever, especially involving my friends or family, will get someone badly hurt. Ive suffered it, not yet because I am a ts, but because I was homeless. It didnt matter that I was probably smarter, more honest, and generally nicer to people around me, I had to deal with whatever venom scum like that of ALL races and sexual orientations had to throw at me. There is prejudice everywhere. The GBLT community is certainly not perfect- its not like we all work together. If people arent willing to stand and defend themselves, there is another saying that may apply- "The meek shall inherit the Earth- six feet of it". I wont be surprised it this gets deleted, although I intend this towards no one here.

[Gerrijerry]

why fight when you can talk. The people that hate will not talk because they know they are wrong. So we must talk, show love where none is given and return hate with understanding. We don't have to kill those that don't like those that are different. only get them to leave us alone to enjoy our lives, as we should do for them. If you don't like me I will not walk on your path. All I ask is to be allowed to walk on my path

[Ze]

why fight when you can talk. The people that hate will not talk because they know they are wrong. So we must talk, show love where none is given and return hate with understanding. We don't have to kill those that don't like those that are different. only get them to leave us alone to enjoy our lives, as we should do for them. If you don't like me I will not walk on your path. All I ask is to be allowed to walk on my path

Well said. :)

To me, the only allowable time for violence is in the form of self-defense. They can talk jibe all they want, but don't pounce on them until they try to take a swing at you or push you or physically block your path. Then they're fair game.

[Miss Misery]

Well said. :)

To me, the only allowable time for violence is in the form of self-defense. They can talk jibe all they want, but don't pounce on them until they try to take a swing at you or push you or physically block your path. Then they're fair game.

Why is it only okay in defending yourself and not others? I used to be part of a peace coalition but over time have come to recognize that:

1) there are evil people on this earth.
2) people choose to perpetrate evil on others
3) there is no place on this earth for those people. We can spend our time helping others that will accept and benefit from that help.
4) Non-violence will get you killed (George Carlin quote).

So, you as a free-thinking sentient being can decide when and where to use violence. Just be prepared to pay the price. The world doesn't want justice, it wants quiet.

[Ze]

I hadn't considered the safety of others in my statement. Probably because I have a hard enough time keeping myself safe.

If you see somebody getting their ass kicked or being picked on, then by all means get involved and do your best to defend them. But to, say, go up into a watchtower and gun down all the cispeople because they might be against us isn't a good idea. Violence such as that is the irrational person's last resort...or their first, depending on how irrational they are. For rational people, it's not an option at all.

[Gaby2]

Hi Myojine!




...I am not a peaceful person when it comes to someone innocent being hurt for no reason.
in fact
im downright violent...

but what if it turns out you were wrong and you had subsequently caused irreparable damage?



http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38671236/ns/us_news-life/?gt1=43001
http://gender.org/remember/about/core.html
And manythings on Lauras play ground.
Im so sick of seeing this. Im so sick of people treating LGBTQ people like theyre all trash and worthless.
and i feel what its doing.
i can feel the hate inside.
it burns my very spirit...

At least you're recognising this problem in yourself. Do something about it!
I needed therapy to come to terms with my own latent aggression. I've never ever used physical violence on anybody but the potential is there. It starts off in the mind, particularly when you feel hard-done-by.

Thankyou very much for the links - you are raising awareness. Well done!



i dont know... but maybe its because i was taught how to kill without remorse...and i only added my personal values that.
I believe that everyone deserves to be happy and free and if innocent stand free of opression and segregation.

Kill without remorse? Think first... you are talking about real people, just like you and me!
Your beliefs are too good to disqualify yourself through violent behaviour!



its wrong, its so wrong that i should feel this way...but it isnt without warrent...

It is!



i guess one of my questions is... why dont more people like us feel this way? or maybe some do but like me wont take action because... i dunno... real life ramifications? maybe we have something to live for... or maybe we're just too tolerant to snap?
i dont understand, my eyes are blinded by hate of those who spread unwarrented pain...

Thank God that most people don't feel this way!

And thank you for being brave enough to post your thoughts as you see them now,
:hugs: gaby

[Nicole Erin]

I think more often than not, it is the dumb-ass hicks and rednecks that cause the GLBT community problems.
Those are the main ones to watch out for. Of course they are not real well liked anyways.

I think 1,000 rednecks dead at the bottom of a lake would be a good start...
Problem is, what can one really do? The only feasible and legal solution is to avoid them best you can.

For the violent thing, it is comforting to think about how you might like to beat our haters with a ballbat just to watch them bleed, too bad one would end up locked up.

However, just make sure and keep some form of protection close at hand when you are around these nasty excuses of humans. I think defense spray is probably best, non-lethal, cheap, concealable, and available at most places, in fact, AutoZone carries it, maybe $7. I know I reach for mine when I see some stupid hick, you know just in case one of these wild animals goes into some homophobic rage at the mere sight of me. I do not trust them.

Gaby, those who want to hurt us for no other reason than homophobia, they do not qualify as humans.

[Ze]

Okay, for the record, I come from a hick/redneck/white trash family. Or so people would assume us to be.

[Melody Moore]

I have had a conversation with a friend about violence being wrong. Then he asked me what I would do to someone if he raped and murdered my daughter. I said I would kill him, slowly and painfully, and I would!
The potential to be violent is in all of us.

SUZY
Then sadly you become that you yourself despised. I had this debate once and it was over a story about a guy who raped his step-son, sodomised him with a baseball bat and beat him up, leaving him to die in an abandoned house Im the USA. The reason why the step-father did this to his step-son was because the step-son had raped his 11year old biological daughter. The step-father picked the step-son up from Jail after the 18year old boy was released on bail over the rape of his younger step-sister and the father took his step-so to a abandoned house to do this, so the whole act was 'pre-meditated' and subsequently the step-father was arrested and thrown in jail for it. Now where is he to be able to look after the little girl who he really wants to protect & who also really does needs her Daddy now more than ever before? It was a very stupid thing to do if you ask me.

The fact is two wrongs never make it right, it is best if we have forgiveness and trust in the judicial
system if you dont then you end up behind bars & destroying your own life as well as the lives of others.

In 1994 my own brother was murdered and to this day the murderer still walks free despite the fact we know who the murderer is. I went through the whole range of emotions, including wanting to seek my revenge & kill this person, but the problem was though, I would have been the first person the police would have come after if I decided to take the law into my own hands because I had the most motive. But what would killing the murderer have achieved anyway? it certainly wouldnt bring my brother back. And would my own brother wanted me to ruin my life over this when I had so many other people to also think about? I dont think he would have wanted that for me. While the killer wals free he will carry with him the guilt as well as the fear that one day he will be caught for it. So he spends his life now looking over his shoulder, wondering when & where its going to come from. This to me is 'Bitter Sweat Revenge' & works well enough - I dont need to do anything except smile back at the murderer to really punish him.

Also Im a child sexual assault survivor and I know the pain I went through over being abused was very cruel & I will never really forgive the guy who did it to me but I also know he is shouldering a lot of guilt over what he did to me - I could see that on his face & tell by the fact that I made him very nervous & he started trembling when I confronted him later on in life as an adult. He knows he done wrong to me, but at the end of the day what he did to me when he abused me, along with my own type of 'forgiveness' by not taking the law into my own hands made me even so much stronger than he will ever be.

My first bit of advice is.... 'Always think about the real victims' and even in the worst situations where a loved one has been taken from you, the real victims are the survivors who have been left behind & now have to deal with the situation. As angry as my mother was about the death of her one of her children, she didnt need to lose another child over the matter. It would have been so self-fish of me to take the law into my own hands and seek revenge that would have destroyed my life.

I guess its hard to know what to do when youve never been through situations like this. But take it from me... 'Violence is definitely NOT the answer'.

PEACE :love:

[Miss Misery]

The fact is two wrongs never make it right, it is best if we have forgiveness and trust in the judicial ...

PEACE :love:

First, I think many would argue that the punishment/retribution carried out against some sociopath that would treat another creature (human or otherwise) so horribly wouldn't qualify as a "second wrong" but might actually be right.

Trusting in the judicial as you put it, is really rolling the dice. Your experience with your brother's murder demonstrates that - he goes unpunished. I also experienced something similar (in the same year 1994)except that my brother-in-law was the murderer (a fireman in LA) shot an unarmed man point blank and killed him. He had to drive across town to his father's house to get a shotgun and then drive back across town where he killed the guy. Seems pretty open and shut except - White fireman vs dead mexican american = acquittal. Even after he was held in contempt for taunting the grieving family in the courtroom. Now he still lives free in Orange County CA and I pray each day that someone will kill him. He is/was a racist bigot and has no business still living on this earth. That's why I don't give a flip about the justice system doing the right thing.

[Melody Moore]

Trusting in the judicial as you put it, is really rolling the dice. Your experience with your brother's murder demonstrates that - he goes unpunished. Wrong, I can also tell U another story about the guy who got off rape charges after raping my ex-wife years ago...., we ran into him quite a bit in the small town we lived in and the guy use to piss his pant every time he seen me & the ex-wife.... that was priceless & far better than him ever going to jail. On one occasion he froze bent over trying to hide his face while he was working on my friend's boat when we ran into him at my friends place. It was the funniest thing to see a grown man with piddle running all down his leg and soaking wet pants. Now that is bitter sweet justice baby!

We all know the judicial system has its failures, but I really dont care for the rest of your opinion, because it is WRONG because it is AGAINST THE LAW to take the law into your own hands & seek revenge. You can use a fair measure of force if you are actually defending yourself or another person. END OF STORY ... My comments still stand and my opinion will NEVER be changed on this.

[suzy1]

I have had a conversation with a friend about violence being wrong. Then he asked me what I would do to someone if he raped and murdered my daughter. I said I would kill him, slowly and painfully, and I would!
The potential to be violent is in all of us.

SUZY

I have read all your comments and understand how you feel on this subject Melody, Hope, Gerrijerry,
But we will have to agree to disagree I’m afraid.
I stand by what I said 100%

SUZY

[Empress Lainie]

Pure unadulterated practically visible hatred was radiated by the religious bigot that ordered me fired from a job I had for 20 yrs simply because I transitioned. The EEOC has just informed me that they wont prosecute my case even though the investigator and his boss thought it was solid (I do have the proof, too), I suppose the boss's boss was also a member of that hateful cult which is in control of much in this city.

My livelihood was totally destroyed, in order to try to stay afloat I wound up with $70,000 in debt I can never repay. And I will not file Chapter 7 BR because they have now required a third party (paid) for "counseling" before you can file, contrary to the US Constitutions provisions.

I do feel quite free to let people know in no uncertain terms what this cult does and did to me with their hatred.

Burn down their churches, be a suicide bomber at one of their services? I don't think so, I will just kill myself quietly at home when I am ready too.

[Melody Moore]

Pure unadulterated practically visible hatred was radiated by the religious bigot that ordered me fired from a job I had for 20 yrs simply because I transitioned.
Are you protected by Anti-Discrimination laws there like we are here? If that happened where I live they would end up in court so fast they wouldnt know what hit them If so, despite what the EEOC said.... I would get a good lawyer and fight it independently an get him to present your case before a judge and see how you go. Sometimes these advocates in places like the EEOC arent worth anywhere near the fat salaries they get. This sounds more like a case of pure laziness or the proverbial sticking the head in the sand scenario on the EEOC's part.. I would keep pushing the matter even if it means involving the news media, they will eat this story up if it violates anti-discrimination laws. If the EEOC or any government department gets wind that the news media is on the case because someone has been slack in doing there job, you watch the response you get then? I bet they snap their heels and come to attention before any story ever gets to air or someone might lose their job. I have used the same tactic once before when dealing with a government department that was too lazy to act, but when the journalist contacted them for their side of the story they quickly changed their tune & called me straight back to sort out my problem :)

[Gaby2]

I'm right behind Melody in all she says.

I've enough examples of my own - here are some recent ones:
a "friend" murdered his wife, but I will not hate him even though he robbed me of her - he doesn't deserve it.
I came close to being murdered, for practically no reason - the perpetra(i)tor didn't expect me to report him to the police. Despite being traumatised, I did.

And another worrying moment in my life: as a fisherman's son I particularly liked fishing for makerel as a kid. At about fifteen years of age I noticed I was "enjoying" whipping their heads off with the hooks which caught them and not just fishing for a livelihood. I didn't realise it at the time but that was a sadistic desire awakening in me. I have hardly fished since though.

I hope this is relevant. I'm upset by some of the comments I've read.
Hatred has to be stopped. But I must stop it in me first.
gaby

[Melody Moore]

I'm right behind Melody in all she says.

I hope this is relevant. I'm upset by some of the comments I've read.
Hatred has to be stopped. But I must stop it in me first.
gaby
Thanks Gaby... I am also upset at some of the comments here that Ive read, I find some attitudes here 'extremely disturbing' to say the least, they don't seem to make no allowances for anything... Noone should ever take the law into their own hands, its not their place to be Judge, Jury & Executioner especially when they don't have all the facts in front of them.

I have a more recent example to show you and it involves a very good trans-female friend of mine here In Cairns.... My friend Brenda was involved in an incident about a bit over a month ago where she got angry & lost the plot as some of us do while on HRT - Brenda rammed a car into a busy hotel because she was affected by alcohol and prescription medication that triggered an episode where she got very angry at some people at the hotel. Since the incident Brenda has also since been diagnosed with Bipolar Affective Mood Disorder.

Read the article here: http://www.cairns.com.au/article/2010/07/09/117341_local-news.html

Some people now want to see Brenda dead over this incident & I know this for a fact because I have seen the threats she received myself on her facebook page. So I took Brenda to the police station last Monday afternoon to report the matter. Brenda has received a number of threats including a threat that if she is seen on the street she is going to get 'seriously messed up', and that when she goes to Lotus Glen Prison, a men's prison BTW, she will receive the 'Royal treatment' because the person making the threats claims to know a prison officer who works there who will see to it she gets whats 'coming to her'. The guy also claimed that he was going to spit on her grave after she is dead.

The guy making the threats to Brenda is obviouly upset because of the woman that was hurt in the incident, but that too has another side to that story.... apparently this very stupid woman tried to jump in front of Brenda's car & tried to stop her while everyone else was scattering and ended up the only person injured. Not only is getting in the way of a speeding car very stupid, but it was obviously completely un-necessary because noone else was injured - so who's fault is it really that the woman got hurt? There is a valuable lesson there about trying to be a hero, especially when you've got a skin full of alcohol.

Brenda is dealing with a lot in her HRT as it is, then she wasnt aware of the affects of some medications she was on when combined with alcohol - so does this mean that Brenda is a bad person and deserves to be intimidated and threatened this way? Personally I dont think so given all the circumstances - in fact I think she should be let off with the loss of her licence and placed on probation. Jailing her is not the answer in her case, because she just really needs some help & proper support & that is why I have been there a fair bit lately - Brenda has already told me that if they try & lock her up in jail, she will commit suicide.

These threats have just proved even more that it would be very stupid to send Brenda to jail and this guy is obviously going to feel
really let down by the legal system if they don't jail her now. So how much has he really helped the whole judicial process? Enough Said.

So lets hope that everyone here doesn't have the same sorts of issues Brenda has on HRT, but I think it might be too late, because some of the girls here also seem very angry at the world & if I could ever make a suggestion to those girls, then I really do recommend they seek some counselling before they do something crazy like Brenda has done here.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

talking about violence and commiting violence are two different things.

lashing out with violence is a hopeless act. it may feel good for 5 seconds, but then you are left with the aftermath.

you may say you are ok with that, but its likely you won't be.

lashing out with hatred is a hopeless act too..it feels good and lasts longer, but it accomplishes nothing.

protecting yourself and your family is a totally different thing..stopping violence against you or hurting someone to protect yourself is different than lashing out...i am not afraid to use a gun to protect myself..but sitting around talking about how you would do this if somebody ever did that is disturbing.

sometimes i feel like people (sorry i stand by what i say too) that say those things are almost chomping at the bit for a chance to excuse their own violent tendencies..

hating people that hate you for being transsexual is understandable, and my heart goes out to everyone that has felt this hatred...it can really reach a boiling point and sometimes leads us to bad ends...one thing is certain, it will not lead you to a good end...

until you can look at yourself, love yourself and let that hatred just roll off, you are not going to get anywhere with your gender "growth", and then "they win", and you lose...and all you have left is your hatred and a cup of coffee

this is not pollyanna bullshit about everything being A-OK....its not A-OK, there are no guarantees, and terrible things happen to good people...especially folks like us that are dehumanized and marginalized by society...

but it will never get better for you if you respond with violence and hatred...it just won't

[Melody Moore]

but it will never get better for you if you respond with violence and hatred...it just won't
I think the last post I made about my friend & the article I included with it just proved that point exactly... so well said!

[Miss Misery]

Wrong, I can also tell U another story about the guy who got off rape charges after raping my ex-wife years ago .......

We all know the judicial system has its failures, but I really dont care for the rest of your opinion, because it is WRONG because it is AGAINST THE LAW to take the law into your own hands & seek revenge. You can use a fair measure of force if you are actually defending yourself or another person. END OF STORY ... My comments still stand and my opinion will NEVER be changed on this.

Look, we all have "stories" of injustice done to us or others we care about but a guy peeing down his leg when he sees you hardly compares to physical rape - and, he's likely peeing down his leg because he "thinks" you are going to hurt him.

Of course "it's against the law to defy the law". But that's all it is - a legal agreement put into place by people (usually politicians) to theoretically maintain a civil society.

What's a "fair measure of force"? Enough that they only cease what they're doing at that moment? Or perhaps enough that they won't come back after you later? Or maybe enough that they never do it again?

And, in defense of yourself or others, do you wait until there is harm done before responding? Or are you allowed to act on a perceived threat?


...I would keep pushing the matter even if it means involving the news media, they will eat this story up if it violates anti-discrimination laws.

Melody - Here in the states, the media wouldn't jump on this at all and psycho religiosity has the govt and polticians scared. That's why the "don't ask, don't tell" policy is still in place and why they're afraid to support gay marriage.






this is not pollyanna bullshit about everything being A-OK....its not A-OK, there are no guarantees, and terrible things happen to good people...especially folks like us that are dehumanized and marginalized by society...

but it will never get better for you if you respond with violence and hatred...it just won't


Kaitlyn - it is pollyanna BS when we just say "oh heck - bad stuff happens to good people" particularly when we're talking about bad stuff perpetrated by bad people. And I'm talking about a bigger picture than CD/TS stuff.

You're right - "it won't get better with violence" AND it won't get better without violence. It's never going to get better overall. That's the human condition.

Often, what we perceive as having been peaceful protest resulting in change really involved a lot of violence - MLK (beaten many times. killed), Ghandi (beaten, then killed), a huge majority of the civil rights movement (beaten, killed), .... the list goes on. While those individuals may not have retaliated with violence, their actions (right or wrong) caused an escalation in violence, albeit perpetrated against them. I'll say it once again - non-violence can get you killed.

Perhaps the difference lies in whether one believes in an after life (or what have you). Justice takes on a whole different face when you think this life is all there is - no "he'll get his come judgement day". Going back to Melody's rape story, when that guy walked out of the courtroom a free man, he got away with rape - period. If you think he's suffering daily, you're very likely mistaken. Sociopaths have no conscience or concern for others.

Gaby2 - My take on your fish story is this. You were bashing in the heads of innocent fish going about their own "fish business" - so really you fit more into the role of perpetrator in this scenario and mackerel swimming in the area had every right to jump up and attack you (protecting family, loved ones ...).

[Ze]

This thread's being closed because it's strayed too far from the OT in a potentially dangerous way. Also, as a site we don't condone violence in any way. Hopefully Myojine has received enough replies now to persuade her to not act on any impulses to randomly kill people, which was the point of the thread staying up at all.