Bully, vitim, or toady?

[minalost]

In ‘kid-dom’ you are ether a bully, a victim, or a toady…” This quote (or miss-quote - I’m sure I didn’t get it quite right…) is from my favorite Christmas movie (brownie points for the first person to guess the title…).

How many of us were “victims” as children? I’m not trying to imply any correlation between having gender issues and being bullied, but I do know that, as a kid, I definitely fell into the “victim” category. So, if you were a “victim” why do you think that was? And DID it have anything to do with being gender challenged/confused? Were you just easier to victimize because of your size or place in the pecking order? Or did it have to do with something else altogether?

I’ll go first. As stated, yes I was bullied as a kid. Why? I think it was because I was small; I was perpetually “the new kid” (moved around a lot – Air Force brat…); and, let’s face it, I was “the sensitive type.” I was far more likely to break down and cry than to fight back; something that caused my Dad no end of frustration. I fact, more often then not, if I got beat up at school, I’d also get a whipping at home for not “fighting back.” (Ended up just not telling my Dad anytime I had problems with other kids…).

Did any of this cause me to CD or result because I was already (in thought if not in practice…) a CDer? I think I was already, as early as 8 or 9 years old, fantasizing about women’s clothing. I think I was already thinking more like a girl than a boy, and also ACTING more like a girl than a boy (Heck, I STILL cross my legs like a girl…). The result was predictable. I don’t think I really stopped being bullied until I was in collage, although high school was a lot better that middle school/ Jr. high school.

The result is that I learned to imitate behavior, out of self preservation, that does not come natural to me. I also learned to hide and/or suppress the behavior that led to the bullying in the first place. I know this is one reason I have such a hard time talking to my wife about my CDing.

Anyway, I think that’s enough self analysis. Besides, I’m no longer a kid, and no longer a professional victim. I gave both up 30+ years ago. But how many of you went through/are going through the same thing? And how did/does it affect you and your relationships with others? And finally, did it have any impact on your gender identity?
:hugs:

[JulieC]

I was sort of a victim, but really I think most kids are at one point or another. It was easy to think you were more picked on than other kids, but looking back I think I'd be surprised to find if most kids didn't think that way.

I don't think it had anything to do with crossdressing.

I was among a bunch of (male) friends one fall. I don't remember what happened, but I do remember a friend of mine being discovered to have a pair of pantyhose in his pocket. He was roundly victimized (just verbally, thankfully) for that. He tried to blow it off as it was something he was using for a kite tail. Didn't really fly (pun intended). I felt bad for him. I'm still friends with him today, though we've never talked about that moment.

That event taught me to be very, very secretive. So, nobody ever found out about my crossdressing (except my mom).

No, there were other reasons at play I think. It bothered me some when I was a teenager, but as I grew so did my 'acceptance' of victimization. Five years after high school at our first reunion, one particular woman who routinely victimized people in school attempted to victimize me again. I just laughed at her. You are what you accept, to some degree.

[sissystephanie]

I was "bullied" once as a child. When I finished my turn with the bully, he suddenly became a "victim." I am only 5' 10" and weigh about 175 now, but I was always big and strong for my age! I should add that I know may ways to hurt, or even kill, so people don't usually mess with me!

No one ever knew I CD'ed, so that never entered into it!

[Samantha Girl]

Mina, I disagree with the premise. Mostly because you are missing a category, the DEFENDOR.

I fall into this category. I defended people that were different and weaker than the rest of us from bullys pretty much my whole life growing up. I wasn't the best fighter per se. But bullys knew if you messed with my friends or the weak among us I would be there to defend them. I didn't win a lot of fights, but I never backed down. I got my shots in and after a while it was just easier for the bullys to give up ;) I WIN!!! :p

[Jenny Gurl]

What do I win ?

A link to the movie and a quiz on the movie.

http://www.proprofs.com/quiz-school/story.php?title=christmas-story-trivia

[Ze]

"Christmas Story" :w00t:

On the transman side, I've always been the victim and I'm too gentle to be a bully, but I know I could be a toadie if the survival situation called for it. I'm good with the charm, sweet-talking, and humor. :devil: It's how I get out of a lot of scrapes. Get them laughing and they usually won't hit you.

[Jenny Gurl]

I figured by the time I finished writing a reply someone else would have guessed it so I gave a quick reply on the favorite Christmas Story. I love the show every year and always know Ralphy is getting his BB gun for Christmas, but it is still funny to watch it unfold. There is another category. I was quiet, not a bully, not a victim, more of a loner. Kind of like a rattle snake. It really keeps to itself unless you try to injure it, then you quickly realize it is not helpless at all. You can be strong and dangerous, yet not abuse this power. It is a great Christmas show though, I never miss it, I generally laugh all the way through it.

[minalost]

Mina, I disagree with the premise. Mostly because you are missing a category, the DEFENDOR.

I fall into this category. I defended people that were different and weaker than the rest of us from bullys pretty much my whole life growing up. I wasn't the best fighter per se. But bullys knew if you messed with my friends or the weak among us I would be there to defend them. I didn't win a lot of fights, but I never backed down. I got my shots in and after a while it was just easier for the bullys to give up ;) I WIN!!! :p

No doubt this is WAY over simplified, but I just used it as a lead in the the bullying question. I have to say, though, that I never met a "defender." Don't doubt you, but it must be rare...


What do I win ?

Just brownie points. If you get enough you can convert them to an "At-a-boy(girl?)." :D


"Christmas Story" :w00t:

On the transman side, I've always been the victim and I'm too gentle to be a bully, but I know I could be a toadie if the survival situation called for it. I'm good with the charm, sweet-talking, and humor. :devil: It's how I get out of a lot of scrapes. Get them laughing and they usually won't hit you.

Sorry Ze, Jenny beat you to the brownie points :D! I agree, laughter is a good tool to deflect/deflate situations.
:hugs:

[Samantha Girl]

He he he I know Mina! There were'nt too many defendors in my day, it is a rare thing. I'm an odd duck :heehee:

I actually thought it was A Christmas Story, but I wasn't positive. There goes my movie geek cred! :p

[kimdl93]

I didn't take any crap from bullies and confronted them whenever the situation meritted. I was teased by my older brothers for being a house boy, etc...and it made me very sensitive to bullying, and made me overcompensate on the macho thing in these situations.

[michellesworld]

Been on each aisle to be frank. Maybe that's why I enjoy being a CDer because I get to experience both?

[sandra-leigh]

I was bullied up until part way through grade 11. People tried to bully me from university onward, but I refused to play along. People nearly completely stopped trying bullying me when I started publically cross-dressing.

Was the bullying because of my (then unknown) TG nature? Difficult to say, but when you get a better reception walking down a street in a dress than you do in jeans and t-shirt, then you have to seriously consider the possibility that you have been a "green monkey" for a long time.

Did the bullying affect my dressing? Yes, for sure. As soon as I realized that I was a cross-dresser, I was thinking of it in terms of going out in public. If people were going to try to bully you anyhow in guy clothes, then you might as well Dress as you like and defy public opinion... nothing to lose. I never ever predicted what happened: that instead of censure I met with wide tolerance, considerable acceptance, and surprising amounts of friendship.

[Lorileah]

what's a toady?

[sandra-leigh]

what's a toady?

Sycophancy

[gemsay32]

Victim, but I don't blame anyone for it.

I'm not a fan of whining about it. I'm sensitive. I always lacked sufficient social skills. My fault.

Christmas Story is a great movie. I love it when his dad beats up the fireplace and comes out looking like he killed it.

[kymmieLorain]

Well up until the middle of the 4th grade. I was mostly netural not picked on much, girlfriends, etc.
Then we moved and I became the victim. Always picked on. that lasted until high school when it mostly stopped. But never had any girlfriends through school. Maybe why I Xdress, who knows.

Kymmie

[Persephone]

Victim, but I don't blame anyone for it.

I'm not a fan of whining about it. I'm sensitive. I always lacked sufficient social skills. My fault.

:yt::yt::yt::iagree::iagree::iagree:

Gemsay described my world almost perfectly!

Congrats to Jenny Gurl for being first on the movie title! But I can add one more thing about my childhood. When I was about 8 years old, I figured out how to wire headphones into my radio so that I could be in bed, pretend I was asleep, and listen to Jean Shepherd live on WOR radio as he did his overnight show. I learned a lot about life from that man!

You can find a catalog of some of the awesome excerpts from those shows at Internet Archive/Shepherd (http://www.archive.org/search.php?query=creator%3A%22Jean%20Shepherd%22)

Did anyone else listen to him live?

[Maureen]

I was a definate victim for years. Then I snapped, started fighting back, and became a seriously good brawler.

I listened to "Shep" every night on a small transistor radio. I also read all his books, one of which "In God We Trust, All Others Pay Cash", is the basis of "A Christmas Story". Read everything he wrote if you haven't already. Jerry Seinfeld sites him as one of the major influences on his sense of humor.

[Lucy_Bella]

I have had the urge for womens clothing as far back as I can remember , not sure why, or how it happened but I always got caught by my mom. She then told my step father ,who then made me wear dresses and panty's against my will.. So that tells me that I knew dresing in my sisters clothing was not ok by the parents ,but I still did and was punished afterwards by wearing the clothing I was in trouble for wearing and being teased. This at three to fours old.
I have always acted a little femme growing up and my step father made sure he beat that out of me. I played with my younger sister and Aunt as small kids because my two older brothers had nothing to do with me. I finnaly grew out of being a sissy in my teens but at the same time found dressing very sexual. I do not want to be a female I am content as a male but I ,at the sametime enjoy my femme feelings ..
I gave up on fighting them and just let the gates open to find a balance ,so far thats working ,that is until I am lonley and need a lady in my life who will accept my dressing needs and me for who I am..Still searching..

[Elsa von Spielburg]

I was always to meek, nerdy, and soft spoken to be a bully. I was a victim during middle school, (when kids are at their worst). It was always a pack vs me, so my odds were never good, and that in itself was infuriating. Never had any problems after those years, so I'm thankful for that.

[lisalove]

Growing up, there were times when someone would try to be the big man. Only to end up being whooped up on by me.
I would love to share the stories, but I'd probably get banned or something for being too violent. The fact of matter is, nobody walks on me.

[Samantha B L]

When I was in grade school I was on a few ocaisions a small-scale bully but I wasn't allowed to get far enough with it to hurt anybody. It must've been in about 4th or 5th grade that I began to get bullied myself from time to time. This was mostly out in the town and on the way back and forth from school. Parents,Teachers,Police are sometimes reluctant to put a firm stop to the bullying because that's probably too much trouble and they don't want to punish or chastise in any way kids who are star athletes who might be doing the bullying. And maybe they think it's good for your developing survival skills to leave you to hang,ignore your complaints,and leave you to get through the situation on your own. I wonder how they'd like to put up with something like that on their job?


I'm not a good fist fighter. The schools I went to weren't bad schools but they could be sort of rough. We even had a couple of guys who carried knives. I could last for about 5 or 10 minutes in an average fight but I wasn't a tough kid. I ran with the tough kids because that's where the LSD and Marijuana was. But i got bullied a lot all along and I decided when I was 17 that I would just be unafraid of potential bullies and treat them like the low class morons they are! Lastly,I can't beleive the bullying and other Junior High stuff that sometimes goes on in College Campuses. Pardon me,University Enviroment. Campus Town.

[Vickie_CDTV]

I was bullied to various degrees right from K-12, I was definitely a victim. I was everyone's favorite target. Then I went home and faced abuse from my old man... I know all about being a victim. I doubt it caused my transvestism directly, but it made me cling tighter and tighter to my mother which probably didn't help.

[eluuzion]

I was never a victim of bullying, although I saw many instances of it. Pretty common on elementary school playgrounds at recess. That is the age kids are trying out different identities and personality strategies. I was mostly a "girl chaser". I still vividly remember my mom driving me over to play at the house of my first "girlfriend". I was in first grade. She was a crossing guard at our elementary school.

That was a pretty safe strategy in elementary school, since most boys were still "afraid" of girls. While others were cowering in the corners of the sandbox at the hands of the school bullies, I was over chasing girls around the swingsets and monkey bars...:D

I started martial arts at age 8 and played peewee football, little league and every other sport on the planet. I quickly befriended lots of big scary looking guys that would come to my rescue if ever required. So everyone left me alone. (except for a couple close calls from guys that were after me for stealing their girlfriends...lol).

:love:

[Imogen_Mann]

I'm sure I answered a post about this before, but that was quite some time ago. Either way.

I was a victim for 10 years (Five to Fifteen), then, at fifteen, I became a real ******* of a bully, and I mean an evil evil person. I made life HELL for my victims for Three years. I've made good and sincere apologies to a pitiful few of them, but others I can not reach. I stopped bullying the day I left school.

I'm not proud of it :sad:

In the following 20 years... Well, it's a long story. If anyones really interested in the story from the POV of the bully, feel free to PM me.

[Starling]

I went to school a long time ago, so there was little outright violence. But there was the usual intimidation of the small, fat, skinny or girlish boys. I was fat, and I was also girlish--not really effeminate per se, but I always liked girlish things, like "tragic" romantic ballads, and enjoyed being with girls more than boys. One of my favorite TV shows was about a flapper. I wanted to be her. I also wanted to be Tuesday Weld.

I was into music and drama and kept pretty much with like-minded kids. There were enough of us, and we had enough academic and social privileges, that I was insulated from outright bullying at school. But after school I often had to run a gauntlet of tough boys taunting me and demanding money, knocking my books out of my hands or just generally making my life miserable.

I remember my teenage years as a time of great intellectual awakenings laced with gender confusion and fear of tough boys. There was only one boy in my class who was even more fearful than I, and once I helped "pants" him.

Almost immediately, I felt terribly guilty, and never, ever did anything like that again.

:) Lallie

[Kate Simmons]

Never was a bully as bullies suffer from self esteem issues. Never really was a victim. If someone thought to victimize me, I had the talent to turn it around and make them look like a fool. Never was a toady, I'm an original person.:)

[Raychel]

I was definitly the victim in school. Not sure why, I guess I was an easy target. It surely did not have anything to do with my dressing, I didn't even know I had those issues in the younger years.

But life goes on. I am mostly happy with my life now, so that is all that anyone can ask.

[Shari]

Much more the bully than the victim and I regret ever doing that.

As time went on, I stopped it and sort of converted, becoming much more like Samantha and defending others who were the victims.

I'm also very glad somebody enclosed a link explaining what a "toady" is.

I knew plenty of them and still do.

[Frédérique]

How many of us were “victims” as children? I’m not trying to imply any correlation between having gender issues and being bullied, but I do know that, as a kid, I definitely fell into the “victim” category. So, if you were a “victim” why do you think that was? And DID it have anything to do with being gender challenged/confused? Were you just easier to victimize because of your size or place in the pecking order? Or did it have to do with something else altogether?

Oh, I was definitely a victim, but it wasn’t specifically because of gender issues – the gender confusion came later, even though I was certainly pre-disposed early on. In school I was targeted by bullies for several reasons, but it all had to do with perceived weakness, meaning I was not like the other boys at all (not equally boyish). I didn’t fight back for a long time, but I eventually did, once I got a brief feeling of confidence among others. I can’t say I enjoyed fighting back, which has a lot to do with my non-violent nature – I mean, I am what I am, whether it resulted from circumstances, peer pressure, or isolation within my family. I began my journey as an equal among the other children, but I quickly veered off the main course – this remains a mystery to me…:o


Did any of this cause me to CD or result because I was already (in thought if not in practice…) a CDer? I think I was already, as early as 8 or 9 years old, fantasizing about women’s clothing. I think I was already thinking more like a girl than a boy, and also ACTING more like a girl than a boy (Heck, I STILL cross my legs like a girl…). The result was predictable. I don’t think I really stopped being bullied until I was in college, although high school was a lot better that middle school/ Jr. high school.

For me, the bullying was over by the latter years of high school, but by then I had a presence of sorts with my artistic talent, something few understood, so they left me alone. By the time I went to art school I met other misfits like me, and I actually began to stand out in certain ways. Go figure. I really believe that crossdressing developed out of the bullying and isolation that I endured as a child, and my artistic nature, which also grew out of the same environment, is nothing more than an equal or parallel expression of my true self. Rather than curse the darkness I knew, I’m glad I went through it all – I emerged completely unlike all the others, and I’m eternally grateful…:)

[Tina B.]

Sorry but I have to disagree with the premise that there is only three categories you can fit into. I never was the most popular person in school, moved around from town to town growing up, so spent a lot of time being the new kid in school. I was never a bully, didn't have the back up even if I had wanted to be. In was never anyones Toddie, But I never played victim for anybody, I was always ready to fight if challenged, I had a big brother that taught me to fight, and able to take a punch. I didn't always win, but nobody ever came back for seconds.
Tina B.

[docrobbysherry]

Odd ball, black sheep, loner, independant. That was/is me!:brolleyes:

I had problems with bullies in middle school. Because I was a minority, NOT because I was effeminate! :straightface:

When I was in the service, they said there were 2 types of people, those that GIVE orders and those that TAKE them!
I was the THIRD type apparently! Didn't like either side of THAT arrangement!:doh:

And just to prove my point, MY favorite Xmas movie has ALWAYS been, Miracle on 34th St!:)

[Naomi Rayne]

I would have to say im an original person also because i fit into a couple different categories that have been already mentioned.

I guess you could consider me a bit of a loaner, somewhat of a girl chaser, and then add in a little bit of an i could care less attitude.

Early on in elementary school i hung out with the kids that grew up to be jocks. Back in elementary school nobody is really a jock. There are just some kids who have some athletic talent and enjoy sports and then there were the kids who preferred to just sit around and do whatever at recess. haha. Eventually me and those kids lost touch and went our separate ways. I endured a slight bit of what people would be considered bullying. Mostly verbal. Since i was friends with them i guess most of it was due in part to us not being friends anymore so they felt the need to say things? Not really sure what it came out to be but it was only one or 2 of them that would say things.

Middle school i found another set of friends and eventually fell outa place with them and endured quite a bit of stuff. Again mostly verbal harassment but i would just ignore it and let them go on their way. Eventually i got pretty tired of it and got a group of friends along with myself to show up outside of each of their houses one night and call them out and tell them if they wanted to talk they better get out here and do it. Needless to say they didnt of course and that was the end of that.

So i would say i am a loaner because i didnt go out of my way to be incredibly social or say hi to everyone on the planet. I just did not care. If you were my friend then there was a good reason you were and because of the incidents in elementary and high school i dont put that much faith in anybody. Girl chaser because i was always hanging out with more girls than guys. Personally its because i like being in the company of girls better. Not because i CD though. That did not surface until later on. Then the i could care less attitude because i just didnt care. If you didnt wanna go out of your way to talk to me or be friendly then i didnt care who you were and id go about my own business.

[Olivia2]

I was never effeminate as a boy but very sensitive. Was not regularly victimized and always had a group of supportive male friends, but certainly had some instances of victimization. I tended to be a passive resistor in that I would talk back to bullies but not confront them physically and as a result be occasionally shoved around or punched. For the most part, I was pretty much an average boy that tried to live by the 'boy code' as coined by William Pollack-neither a bully nor a victim but one of a large group that tried to blend in and not bring too much attention to ourselves.