social training for a TS?

[Nicole Erin]

so many sub-forums focus on things like "I wore pantyhose with shorts" and all that, I am way past all that "pink fog".

My real concern at the moment, given how I can't afford surgeries and such, is becoming socially adept as a woman. Of course I can't relate to most men anymore, but wonder if I do well as a woman.

I listen to them chat, often about "baby daddy" or their man, and I cannot relate to that.

One friend says I probably overthink it, I don't know, what do you TS ladies think?

[Katesback]

I personally think the ONLY way to REALLY assimilate into society is to give 100%. That means full time and living as a woman. This includes making mistakes and all.

The part time thing can only offer so much.

Katie

[Presh GG]

Me and my big mouth.

I know a few TS ladies. There is one ...Way old enough to know better, but she can't figure out why nobody wants to go out and play with her.

Well, she's unlike any women I've ever met outside j.high.
She's a bully and a "cat". She swears she's oh so passable and maybe in looks , ok, and even voice, but when she opens her mouth , she's mean, cold and crude.

She can use some sensativeity sp] training. I tried but now I hide!

Presh gg

[subaru_forster]

I know that this is going to be cliche, but the point of living as a TG in the first place is to present yourself as you really are.

That said, what you might do is observe a GG who you think is roughly the type of person you are, and note how she interacts. Do this with several who you feel have stuff in common with you, as not one of them will be exactly like you.

Now, here's the trick: don't aim to emulate them. Instead, look for the matching substance that's already inside yourself and bring it out.

Feminine mannerisms come easily as second nature to a seasoned CD, but I think a person who lives as TG deserves to be greedier than this: bring out your first nature.

[noeleena]

Hi. Nicole.

For those of you who read this please take it in the way im trying to get this across . i know some will dissagre with me just look at the over all pic of real life. its just a over view .


I think youll know where im coming from .Ill came at this as a woman & one who has allways been this way.

How do you think . as male as in wired as one ,
Or as , (( yet from what your saying its not as a female .))

What i keep hearing is ..i wont to be a female / woman . or i wont to live as a woman .

okay the difference is in how you are wired. For a male to be a woman it wont happen . thats the bottom line , why , they , we dont come with a womb & all those parts that is there from birth. thats the body. & some wireing as well.

The wireing is different,
im wired with both m & f. so i can see both ways & how a male & woman thinks. thats me or if you like i came programed ,

For a male to pick up how a woman thinks is harder. because your programe as female / woman has to be learned so you have to change how you think how you see what makes a woman the way she is. & to understand that, means a change ,
you see we come with different emotions & psychologically & Mentalatly.

Im on a forum that is just for women & we talk about every thing its called
Moan about men.com

Now i know some men can act & have manerisms & even look like a female & talk like a female & pass & would not even be caught out .

over 3 years ago.
i have a friend over in austraila who has had all the surgerys s r s , h r t, & f f s. now remember i meet her before she had any of this , she had her ops just after me so i see the changes . now she can go any where & no one will know of any of those changes & she has passed as a woman 1/2 my age of cause & for her it has & will work.
yet she can not talk about kids she can not relate to me as one who has children you see there is a difference , she would not talk about having children so really shes female not a woman . nor will be . of cause she will be accepted as a woman & thats not the issue so even tho shes a if you like a transsexual.

So if one is trying to be what they are not its harder to assimulate to be a female.
I did not have to think ill be a female ill dress as one or ill try & understand what its like being one or how i walk or ... you know am i a female . i did not change from male to female as i said im both. & hard wired both . that does not say i have every thing from both sides.
Iv helped a few dressers get to understand how to be femme how to think as a female / woman & really they get by quite nicely yet they know its only for a while .

I see good points in for some transsexuals having to live as in role because they struggle because they were not shown how to ,
as to the social side that can be learned by joining womens groups or if possiable work with them . go on outings my main thrust is join a group or two .
As a woman its easy , do photography join that group . coffe mornings with women .
You said you dont talk our talk, youll learn more from the older women who have expereance & life. behind them & theyll accept you in to thier fold .
be up front & the last point is time give your self like 3 years to learn be accepted . as a point some of the guys in some groups i talk with them about cars building what ever why because thats a part of who i am & do they know me & my back ground yes. so what im saying is be your self. & dont over analise your self .

...noeleena...

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Nicole you make a really good point..

learning to be socially female is a specific hurdle we face...

its interesting the way you put it...not relating to specific things like having the baby, which i have found is central to many women's entire lives is never going to change..i'll never have a baby...but i have found that when women open up to me as a woman, i just melt and take it all in, it feels very natural...i especially enjoy the feeling of sharing something and getting back and forth support...

nothing is perfect, and so when the baby talk happens i just listen.

i overthink too,
women do notice a bit of difference in me...alot of times ihear "you seem like you are really smart"..guys never say this to each other..and obviously women are picking up something about me...

i worried alot about this..

but i find that the more open i am to this entire experience, the better it gets.

one thing that has really helped me is that a couple of casual friends (gg's) from my old job have been AWESOME in how they just said..ok, if you are a woman, then you are a woman, and they just dove right in..invited me shopping, to lunch...etc...i've learned so much from them...maybe you have a friend like that??

[AliciaJordan]

Maybe I don't get this but am I to understand that a person should feel less of a woman because she can't give birth. That doesn't make any sense at all.

I know a few GG's that can't (for medical reasons) give birth and a few who have made the decision not too. Does that make them less of a woman then? Does it make them less of a woman because they never had children and can't give their input into conversions about kids?

I feel the same applies to the male side as well. Does it make a man less a man because he can't or chooses not to father a child?

Being a woman or a man shouldn't be defined by the fact we can bring another human into this world. Should it not be more defined by your actions?

[DemonicDaughter]

I was recently contemplating started a weekly thread discussing things similar to this and allowing the GGs to answer from their personal experience. Do you think that would be any help?

[Kathryn Martin]

so many sub-forums focus on things like "I wore pantyhose with shorts" and all that, I am way past all that "pink fog".

My real concern at the moment, given how I can't afford surgeries and such, is becoming socially adept as a woman. Of course I can't relate to most men anymore, but wonder if I do well as a woman.

I listen to them chat, often about "baby daddy" or their man, and I cannot relate to that.

One friend says I probably overthink it, I don't know, what do you TS ladies think?

This becoming socially adept with women is such an interesting thing. I have found that I have always been socially adept with women and have often been veiwed as someone who fit in with women. To a degree my challenge is more to unlearn reactive behavior acquired over a lifetime of "playing" the man. I have certain behaviors specifically how I debate an issue that is colored by my male life and can be more assertive in word choice or delivery than a woman would say it. In this regard I have to work on my "it's not what you said, it's the way you said it" aspect.

I think that thinking about these things is a great thing.

Most women my age are way past the girly stuff and their femininity is so subtle and runs very deep. I have issues with femulating a 15 year old unless you are that age. Having female role models of stature has helped me a lot. There are women in my life that I would like to be like and strive to emulate.

Kathryn

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Alicia, no one is saying "less than a woman"...
why on earth did you think i was saying that?

i'm saying socially its hard to relate to a woman when she comments on giving birth..i have nothing to say ..and my internal sense of self just can't relate...its one thing about being a woman that i can never share...and frankly although many women are fine with not being a mom, lots of women that never gave birth feel horrible about it..

as you transition one surprise you'll find is an almost CONSTANT nagging sense of hiding in plain site...you are constantly telling only part of the story...and you never know if what you are saying is being accepted ..

so it's about relating honestly with other people..and being sensitive to the fact that other people hopefully want to be honest and share as well...and because i havent lived a woman's life for 40++years, it's difficult sometimes..

[Jorja]

For me the thing that worked best is/was being in with a group of women. You know, a womens club. It can be a book club, knitting club, a moan about men club, a flower arranging club, whatever. Get involved in the activities women particapate in. Spend as much time as you can around these women. You will become just like them in short order. Oh, and quit thinking about it so much. Enjoy it and go for the ride.

[AliciaJordan]

yet she can not talk about kids she can not relate to me as one who has children you see there is a difference , she would not talk about having children so really shes female not a woman . nor will be . of cause she will be accepted as a woman & thats not the issue so even tho shes a if you like a transsexual.

Sorry Kaitlyn, it wasn't meant at you, more about the above quote really.

I can totally understand what you are saying as I have those fears about all this transitioning stuff. Currently, I am not at that stage (transitioning), but when I am out and around other people, I watch and try to see how I would fit in if I was out as a female.

[Frances]

I use to have that worry as a male, as in do I sound male enough when I speak? Am I moving correctly in a male way? I use to get in a lot of trouble as a toddler for not being enough of a boy, and it became a major preoccupation.

Now that I have transitioned, I worry about my interests being too male these days when flirting with men, but I feel completely liberated about the way I walk, talk and dress in society. We can transition into butch women and we are allowed to be uber feminine as well. Look at Joan Jett, she has always talked and held her body in a masculine kind of way, but her love affair with makeup is pretty intense. The range for women is much wider than for men. Just go with the flow.

[kellycan27]

I think that growing up in the family that I did, mom is a doctor and my dad (may he rest in peace) was a lawyer, and the fact that I figured out that I was "different" than the other boys pretty early on gave me a couple of distinct advantages. Advantage #1 Man and woman were equal. there wasn't anything that a man could do that a woman couldn't. Brawn could be overcome by brain.
I wasn't pressured to "be a man son", rather be a person and be productive, be independent, and stick up for yourself. I spent most of my time with my mother who if you haven't guessed, while not being a card carrying feminist, was very pro equality. My mom is a very strong female presence and was a huge influence on me. Later on when she and dad started to see where I was heading did try and change tact a bit, but I think they realized that the damage had been done and that they were pretty much s*****d.
Advantage #2: I was young and not yet subject to peer pressure to be a man. I didn't have to "backtrack or " fight against my male upbringing" if you will. By the time that I probably should have taken the male fork in the road.. I wasn't having any of that.
As far as fitting in socially with women, I really didn't have a problem. What was of interest to them was of interest to me. I was a young female and I grew up around other young females, and we just kind of muddled through, learning as we went. Again not having to backtrack and fight against my past. Being female, to me wasn't really something that one had to learn, it was more something just seemed to come naturally. There were things that I DID have to learn, but they were more along the lines of social graces rather than deportment ( I hope that makes sense). :2c:
That's my story and I am sticking to it.!


Kel

[pamela_a]

Being female, to me wasn't really something that one had to learn, it was more something just seemed to come naturally. There were things that I DID have to learn, but they were more along the lines of social graces rather than deportment ( I hope that makes sense). Thank you Kelly, that makes perfect sense.

As soon as I quit pretending to be male I discovered I didn't have to "learn" to act like a woman. I just started being me. Women smile, I didn't have to learn to do that, I was happy being me and I smiled. I've always talked to everyone so that wasn't an issue. Everything else just came naturally. I've learned there is no "ONE WAY" that all women act so I quit worrying about it. I'm simply allowing myself to be and act naturally and since I'm a woman it's not any trouble at all.

[Bree-asaurus]

Thank you Kelly, that makes perfect sense.

As soon as I quit pretending to be male I discovered I didn't have to "learn" to act like a woman. I just started being me. Women smile, I didn't have to learn to do that, I was happy being me and I smiled. I've always talked to everyone so that wasn't and issue. Everything else just came naturally. I've learned there is no "ONE WAY" that all women act so I quit worrying about it. I'm simply allowing myself to be and act naturally and since I'm a woman it's not any trouble at all.

I always had to pretend to be a guy. I never smiled and spent a lot of time alone because when I was alone was the only time I was able to relax and just be myself. I haven't had to learn how to act like a woman, I'm just being myself. It's funny how now I smile all the time and am far more social now.

[dilane]

"When in rome, do as the romans do"

If you want to fit in, join in, make friends, and converse in a compatible manner. If you like it in that world, it will become natural.

Of course, some T-girls are into the look rather than the "be". If this is you, fuggedaboudit.

-- Diane

[Danni Bear]

Nicole,

learning to be woman is hard work unless you grow up a female. I was lucky in that after I was 14 I have been female and learned (grew up as). Women as a whole aren't that hard to understand, we have different thought patterns than males. What matters more to us is connections.


Danni

[Natasha_C]

Hi Nicole.

There seems to be very little on the wwb for feminine deportment and female social behaviour to help blend in. One book that has some interesting articles is "How To Be A Woman Though Male" by Virginia Prince. If you would like me to scan the relevant sections I would be only too pleased to. If anyone knows of any places to find similar deportment material I would be very grateful.