I Feel like the biggest fraud!!! I denied my true self twice today

[Barbara Dugan]

I feel really sad. I denied my true self today. This morning when I got to work there was a big argument going on.

When I stepped in on the break room everybody got quiet for a moment then one of my coworkers told me that they were defending me against the ongoing rumor that I was being effeminate and gay.

There were two sides, one defending my masculinity and heterosexuality and the other side doubting on the reasons why I had my arms shaved and my brows waxed, They were arguing that manly guys don't do that.

Things were getting kind of heating up but I keep my cool all the time and acted like it everything was a nonsense and irrelevant but deep inside I was like I was falling in pieces. Then I denied being Gay or effeminate twice, I even made a few jokes about I think those were the ones that made feel even worse.

I feel really bad because I lost an opportunity to come out and be the real me but I think I the fear and insecurity won this time and that is why I feel like a fraud:sad:

Do you think I made a mistake?

["Mary"]

Don't beat yourself up too much. It's not like you have duty to share Barbara with them.

[Jenny Gurl]

Just because the topic came up today, doesn't mean you are ready to come out today or ever for that matter. We all have to weigh options. Society is not approving of us or we would all be out and free. Many things to weigh, some risk their jobs, S.O., children, etc. Don't let the pink fog blind you and make any serious decision like this when you are ready, not when it happens to be convenient. As far as denying yourself, just because you defended yourself there does not make you a bad person or mean you betrayed your sisterhood. You protected yourself from whatever you thought was at risk. Sleep well tonight, you did nothing wrong. :hugs::hugs:

[MonicaJean]

No, you made no mistakes.

In this metrosexual world we live in nowadays, "real" men get pedicures and facials too. Don't sweat it.

[Jodygurl]

Mistake? Only if you think it was. Missed opportunity? Probably. But only if you were ready to acknowledge their suspections.

Bottom line, (geez, I hate that term, sorry) you seem to have made it pretty obvious (brows, arms) so you probably should have been ready to come out.

But, it's not the end of the world. You still have a job and, I assume, some friends at work.

Maybe you could call a good friend aside and find a way to fess up while pointing out that it's not really a big deal.

[NathalieX66]

That sounds kinda rough going.
I'm afraid I don't have much to offer for advice. Any experts on the subject? :strugglin

I work in an office enviromnment amongs a bunch of jock types, and we all know what it's like when they're all together in one room, and the peer group mentality kicks in. Everybody wants to suck up to the alpha dog, and get approval amongst the group.

For me, I'm not a junior level guy anymore so it's rough enough for me to try to grow my hair long when already I have pierced ears and thinned out eyebrows, and I used to be known as a guy with long sideburns. I meet with clients on a business level. I love my job but there are compromises I make in order to pay the mortgage, and save for retirement.
I think it's a shame that your co-workers would even dwell on sexual orientation. Since when does anybody need to defend themselves in order to justify approval frpm peers or fellow co-workers?

The downside I've struggled with being a CD'er or TG is that it's not like being gay, where you can tuck away your personal life a la DADT, and you look like any normal person. Once you start altering your appearance, it makes others feel uneasy. I feel bad about many people who've gone down the road of transition, only to find themselves out of work.

[Lorileah]

First it wasn't their freakin business about your sexuality. Tell them to get a life preferably somewhere away from you if it is important to them.

Second, when the time is right, you can come out. Not when they think you should. You didn't need defending, you needed someone to say "it ain't anybody's bidness. Now who wants cake?"

[Tanya83]

I probably would have done the same.

[Babette]

Barbara, only you know the realities of your work environment. Perhaps your instincts were your best guide.

I've had several past experiences with different offices and there always seemed to be an undertone gossip and evil misgivings toward each other. I think it was all driven by the competitive natures of many alpha personalities but I could be wrong. Nevertheless, I purposely avoided telling people my personal business. That doesn't mean that I was aloof, unfriendly or impolite. I recognized that some individuals thrived on bolstering their self importance by taking a little bit of information and embellishing it. As far as I was concerned, they could wonder anything they wanted to about me until cows came home.

Do I think you made a mistake? No, you were looking out for your own safety and there is nothing wrong with that. As for the next time, just let them wonder. It'll drive them nuts.

Babette

[Kathryn Martin]

Barbara:

It is such a difficult decision to make at the spur of the moment. None of us deserves to be put on the spot like that and then forced to do something we might not be ready to do.

I think you did the right thing. I have been called effeminate, in touch with my feminine side etc.

I always admit it and really simply tell the guys that I believe they are missing out on a whole part of themselves, which (and here is the is the stab) would allow them to be more cultured and educated, enjoy more about life instead of running around like grunting beef cakes.

Because I am a living example of what I mean they usually shut up.

Without giving up your protective cloak of leaving Barbara anonymous embrace your feminine side.

You did good today to protect yourself and make the coming out something that is at a time and place of your choosing not theirs or the situations.

In the world that we live in you did not betray yourself or what you stand for, you ensured that you didn't get railroaded.

:hugs: Kathryn

P.S. I have never given a flying hoot about what people think of me - and if they can't find a valid line of attack or criticism they usually beat on the most vulnerable spot which in my book makes them weak and me right:D

[Barbara Dugan]

That sounds kinda rough going.
I'm afraid I don't have much to offer for advice. Any experts on the subject? :strugglin

I work in an office environment amongst a bunch of jock types, and we all know what it's like when they're all together in one room, and the peer group mentality kicks in. Everybody wants to suck up to the alpha dog, and get approval amongst the group.

For me, I'm not a junior level guy anymore so it's rough enough for me to try to grow my hair long when already I have pierced ears and thinned out eyebrows, and I used to be known as a guy with long sideburns. I meet with clients on a business level. I love my job but there are compromises I make in order to pay the mortgage, and save for retirement.
I think it's a shame that your co-workers would even dwell on sexual orientation. Since when does anybody need to defend themselves in order to justify approval from peers or fellow co-workers?

The downside I've struggled with being a CD'er or TG is that it's not like being gay, where you can tuck away your personal life a la DADT, and you look like any normal person. Once you start altering your appearance, it makes others feel uneasy. I feel bad about many people who've gone down the road of transition, only to find themselves out of work.


Thanks Natalie..yes is hard to deal on those environments where the Testosterone runs really high and where coworkers see you as part of a pack. One of the things that troubled me the most is that some of them were defending me of the accusations of being gay or effeminate I guess they are the ones that more about me...what would be their reaction ? if they found that I am in reality Tg.


First it wasn't their freakin business about your sexuality. Tell them to get a life preferably somewhere away from you if it is important to them.

Second, when the time is right, you can come out. Not when they think you should. You didn't need defending, you needed someone to say "it ain't anybody's bidness. Now who wants cake?"

Its exactly what I said but some of them were so right on the money that left me with some doubts about their knowdlege of this issues

[Alice Torn]

Barbara, Cute avatar by the way!! Don't feel bad. I would likely have done the same thing. At the VA mental health clinic, last week, I got into a discussion, with an Iraq veteran. We totally agreed on everything, but when he kind of attacked gay, I told him i hate the feminist movement, and other movements, but, i said there are gay people, who have been victimized, by abuses. Hey , even Peter denied Jesus three time!! I could surely see myself, around all that testosterone, and pressure, doing the same thing!! But, isn't that sexual harrassment, for emplotees to gang up, on a fellow employee, and do such things? You did ok.

[AKAMichelle]

Tough call. At least you know some of your co-workers care about you a lot. They were defending your honor till the last man. :D

[Andy66]

There's a big difference between coming out one person at a time (may or may not be a good idea), and throwing yourself into the middle of a big argument (always a bad idea). I agree with the ladies: come out on your own terms. Don't worry, you did what you had to do. :hugs:

[tanyalynn51]

You did the right thing. No one has the right to dictate to you when you come out. Especially not meatheads like that.

[julia ann]

I know how you felt, I was once faced with listening to a radio show featuring, Janet, a t-girl who also happened to be the lady I buy all my clothes from. Had to listen to a bunch of neanderthal construction workers hoot and holler about what she had to say. Very, very hard to keep to my mouth shut.

[docrobbysherry]

I think u CLEARLY understand! Once the toothpaste is OUT of tube, it's NEVER going back in again!:brolleyes:

U have to work with these people nearly EVERY DAY! Only U know how bad it could be if u came out!:doh:

Also, u can ALWAYS come out LATER!:)

[ReneeT]

Coming out is a big deal. It needs to be done on your terms, according to your schedule, and to whom you choose. Given the circumstances, i might have had the same response you had. Clearly, though, your coworkers have noticed some changes. The events you describe have shown you who your friends are, so, if you WANT to come out to your coworkers, you know where to start.

In the words of William Jefferson Clinton, I feel your pain. You are in my thoughts

Renee

[Miranda09]

Barb, don't worry about it. You did the right thing and, as Lori said, it's NONE of their business. You'll come out when you're ready and not before. :)

[7sisters]

Your only duty is to protect yourself, your job and your family income. Period. Fullstop. You are not an activist with lawyers to back you. Leave activism to activists. And forgive yourself for being perfectly human. Whenever I listen to an anti-gay joke and am too tired to tell the person so shutup , I make ammends by donating a small amount of money to the local LGBT community. :hugs:

[Barbara Dugan]

I wish to thank everyone for the input and comments ...they make me feel much better now:hugs::love:

[Tina B.]

Barbra, how could you have done anything different, you walked into a room full of people, one side having a negative attitude, the other side defending you masculinity. Had you of came clean, you would have let down your defenders, but I doubt you would have won over over any of the negative group. You don't risk the job, on the spare of the moment. If your not sleeping with them, or wearing their clothes, why do you owe them an explanation of your private life. Stop beating yourself up, it's your choice as to who and when you tell all. I'm sure you've heard the old saying, if your wife catches you in bed with another woman, look up and say, "honey, it's not me." I think it fits even better in this case. Even if they know, you don't have to admit anything you don't want too.
Tina B.

[Sarah Doepner]

While it may be a missed opportunity for you to come out, it was also a missed opportunity for all the bashers to really start to lump on you and for "friends" to abandon you because they were defending something that changed before their eyes.

It doesn't sound like it was a good situation and there may still be fallout from the discussion. Be aware for the next several weeks there will be those who are unwilling to let the discussion go and will be wanting to prove they were right.

Play your cards carefully for the next little while Barbara, but today you did the best thing possible.

[t-girlxsophie]

You don't owe an explanation to anyone Barbara,Your Life your rules.Only on your terms should you tell anyone.IMO you did the right thing.They will move on to talk about someone else this time next week.

Also This line that gets trotted out about what Is or Isn't Manly is tiresome,theres many "tough guys" out there who take care of themselves.are they going to have to defend themselves every time some cretin pulls them up,nah! don't think so

:hugs:Sophie xx

[jenifer m.]

the way i see it is you will know when the timing is right to come out,and the break room that day definently diddn't sound like a good time to do it.you will know when that time is.

[Inna]

Hey hon, like I almost always do I find a positive and light note in every story and let me tell you, you were only one more denial from Peter. Saint Peter denied Jesus three times and look at Christianity today. Hon you did what you had to do and if taking bible as reference you will be a great woman and will embrace and delight everyone with your lovely presence. Just give it a time, Amen!:Pray:

Love you, you are so beautiful, no wonder they were wondering!:daydreaming:

[Danni Bear]

Barbara,

No way should you be ashamed., You did what any of us would do in that situation. Hold your head high and when the time comes, then you tell not before then.
Love
Danni

[Christy_M]

As everyone else has.said, your first responsibility is to yourself. Self preservation is the most basic need. How you develop on this path has to be based on your own readiness. My own macho facade would have defended my masculinity at the expense of my true self.

You should be comfortable knowing younger in control of your own destiny and not small minded people who can't get past personal differences that ultimately make the group stronger. This is the whole purpose of organizational diversity. Do not be ashamed of your actions. I think you have done what most of us who have been closeted for most of our lives would have done.

[lavistaa62]

Love yourself.

[Annaliese2010]

Do you think I made a mistake?Are you independently wealthy? If no than nope; if yes than yep. But that's just my op. For questions like this it's entirely your call. On the other hand one has to eat, pay bills, have a place to live, own a car, buy clothing, makeup, glitter & glam. And that takes money, honey. And that means staying gainfully employed. And that generally means not 'rocking the boat'. So...depends on top management & how progressive or backwards they are. And on you, depending on how much you like living a relatively happy, predictable, comfortable life or being miserable as an unemployed activist fighting for 'the cause' (rah rah rah sis boom bah, 36-24-36 hike!). Those are the exigencies of life. It is what it is... (sigh)

But aww...sorry you are so upset sweetie. [hugs]

[Patty B.]

You have to make a living, need the job, health insurance. I know the environment you work in, back stabbing, rumors, lots of testerone. I'd rather not have to keep this side of me from the world, but still have to pay the bills and would rather not have to adopt an amish lifestyle. I kind of know your the experience, you've still got to work, you acted approiately. Just my opinion.

[Susan4]

I think one of the most encouraging, and positive, aspects of your experience is that, as you told the story, there was a group of co-workers defending you.

That's great. And, if you ever do come out, on your terms and on your schedule, they'll probably still be there for you.

Hugs
Susan

[RachelDenise]

Barbara, work environments are tough. You have to work and being uncomfortable at work is difficult. Just because the local weasels decided that you were the talk point of the day doesn't make your personal life any of their business. I'm happy you had people in your corner, but the loud and obnoxious ones always seem to be more prevalent. If you want to tell them, do it when you're ready. Stay safe and be positive but stay out of the discussions. Look to us for support. We accept you here and wish you all the best! :hugs:

[Angiemead12]

I agree! Come out when your ready not because your pressured too. I slowly pick and tell who I come out too as well on my own time and confidence! :love:

[Fab Karen]

The simple answer to this kind of question ( why does he do that? ) is "because I like it." If you don't feel like discussing your sexuality, then just don't. It's unclear if you're saying you told gay jokes, but if so, at least to people with a brain in their head ( sounds like most of them don't), it'd look like you were trying too hard.

[Elsa Larson]

IF presented with what you dealt with, I hope I would have the presence of mind to ask them:

How would you treat me differently if I was gay/trans/effiminate? Why?

I'd try to work in my quote: "What's between your legs and what you like to do with it is your business, not mine. Please give me the same courtesy."

If things went downhill from there, I'd go home and curl up until I stopped shaking and crying.

I had the advantage of being out at work (state government) for most of my career and never had any negative repercussions.

[Gerrijerry]

I also don't think you could have done anything else. Don't fret on what you did or said. However I think that it is true that if the conversation was taking place some may be looking to prove there point. Just hang in there. You might try next time to just go up to the person who says you are gay etc. and tell him " Hey what is the problem when you and I had sex last week you were happy" That puts them on the defensive to defend that they are not gay or CD as you laugh about it. Everyone will realize how studid the entire thing is. You can then (if you ever want to) tell others in your time and in your own way.

[erickka]

I don't think it can be called that. I think you erred on the side of caution. I don't know your circumstances with your co-workers, but I do know that you are the only one that can tell when and/or if the time is right. Don't beat yourself up over this, life is too short to stress out all the time.

[KayleeDahl]

You must have felt like you were hit by a truck walking into that room... I don't know how well I would have kept my stuff together!

I'm lucky in that I compete in triathlons, and everyone at the office knows it, and some even donate to the causes the races are for. This takes care of 99% of anyones "why is 'he' doing that" kind of Qs. Hang a few race numbers in your office/cubical, and ur all set.. hehehe Athlete adds back the macho points plus 1 that shaving takes away!

I think you did the right thing, there is nothing that obligates you to tell them anything about your personal life that you don't want to.

Hugs!
Kaylee

[GingerLeigh]

I'm in a similar situation at work except nobody is either confronting me or defending me. I don't wax/remove hair. There is nothing visible in either my appearance or mannerisms, well that I'm aware of at least. I was outed by a medical procedure that made me talk under anaethstetic to medical personnel that know my coworkers. Nice huh. Now there are odd looks, snickers behind my back and vandalism to my car. I'm practically exiled as few people talk to me anymore. Tough spot to be in as going to HR or a lawyer with this would confirm the suspicion and likely bring it to light with my family. Sorry, enough about me.

Did you really want to be outed on their terms or would you rather it be on yours? You made the right call. Slamming the rest of the CD world sucks, but it is a way of defending yourself and deflecting the suspicion. Do what you have to do.

I don't imagine being totally out would be an easy way to live unless you plan to transition. Even then. Especially then. Those girls are tough!

[Ashleythenewgirl]

I for one do not feel you are a fraud. You do have a right to work in a safe environment at work and I think those who were critical of you were out of line.
You were placed in a very difficult situation and I think you handled it the best you could. Don't beat yourself up over it.
I hope you're doing better!
Ashley

[kimdl93]

I agree with everything said. Your gender identification and sexual preference are really none of their business, first of all. And second, if and when you chose to come out - is entirely your decision.

Obviously, some of the people there have noticed some things about you. Still, it really is a ridiculous thing for them to be arguing about! Don't they have jobs to do???

[KarenCDFL]

I would really love to ask the guy who started the this negative conversation in your office what color panties he was wearing that day.

I just find it pretty disgusting that people have to pick on the differences of others.

Glass houses and all that.

[Jamie001]

This is entirely UNPROFESSIONAL and ILLEGAL!! Your should complain to HR. It is harassment and you could legally sue the company.


I feel really sad. I denied my true self today. This morning when I got to work there was a big argument going on.

When I stepped in on the break room everybody got quiet for a moment then one of my coworkers told me that they were defending me against the ongoing rumor that I was being effeminate and gay.

There were two sides, one defending my masculinity and heterosexuality and the other side doubting on the reasons why I had my arms shaved and my brows waxed, They were arguing that manly guys don't do that.

Things were getting kind of heating up but I keep my cool all the time and acted like it everything was a nonsense and irrelevant but deep inside I was like I was falling in pieces. Then I denied being Gay or effeminate twice, I even made a few jokes about I think those were the ones that made feel even worse.

I feel really bad because I lost an opportunity to come out and be the real me but I think I the fear and insecurity won this time and that is why I feel like a fraud:sad:

Do you think I made a mistake?

[Chickhe]

You did the right thing. Except, you should follow-up by reporting the incident to your manager and HR... just that you felt uncomfortable. What I learned about work situations is to be very cafeful what personal information you share. A good way to quiet a group like that is to say...your SO likes you that way....and you are not going to argue with the person who makes your bed.

[Bobbie Bee]

You’re not a fraud Barbara, you were just being cautious for your own sake. We all have to weigh the consequences of our actions before we act and it was apparent to you at that the time and/or place it was not right for you. I think you made the right decision and I don’t see it as a bad decision. Hugs to you and I hope you feel better soon you pretty gurl.

[DonnaT]

I even made a few jokes about I think those were the ones that made feel even worse.

Do you think I made a mistake?
With regard to the jokes, yes, I think you did.

[Maxine_b]

Dear, whatever you do it should be on your own terms...not their's. besides, if you had spilled your guts and said this is me they would have used it to bash you over the head anyway. The only person YOU have to please is YOU! Do not beat yourself up over the perceived opinions of others. Or as Ru says, “Baby if you can’t love yourself…How the hell you gonna love somebody else”

[Lexine]

Barbara,

I was going to respond to this as soon as I saw it but I wanted to make sure that whatever I had to say was heartfelt and wasn't just echoing an already existing opinion.

For all the time I've been here on the forums, you've been very confident with your sexuality and your expression and that's a very admirable trait that I rarely see in the girls here. This event must've struck a blow to you quite a bit, considering that there's some uncertainty involved with how this would change the landscape of the work place should you actually come out.

I'm almost in the same boat, though my work isn't as testosterone filled as yours, but I felt that slowly finding people who will accept you for who you are helps. In your situation, if there were people defending me from other people, I'd wager that those might be the people who you should talk to and express what you feel inside and who you are inside. I can't guarantee that the reactions will be positive, but at the very least I'm hoping they'll be accepting. I came out to a lot of the girls here in my office, and some of the boys know but not all, but thus far they've been accepting of my situation even though I don't intend to go in as a girl to work.

I'm hoping that my post helped even in the slightest and keep us up to date on what's happening, k? :)

[Barbara Dugan]

Once again I want to thank everyone for your input and opinion. I really appreciate every single one comment:hugs:

This was a first time situation and I wasn't' prepared to confront it. Today there were still some comments even one guy told me it was ok if I were gay:doh: no big deal. I know I am not the only one employee on this side of the rainbow... perhaps I should talk to them but hopefully things will settle down.

One thing I am pretty sure I will do this weekend is wax my brows the same way I am been doing it for the past months :love:

[Helen_Highwater]

Isn't this a fine example of the lack of understanding of what being CD is about? How many of us here on the forum are gay? Some yes but no more that in the wider community.
OK, an opportunity was missed to educate those who link any behavior that they consider "Not normal", that falls within a certain stereo type to being gay. However it's your judgment call made in the heat of the moment as to whether or not you justify yourself to others, others who, even with the most articulate of explanations, will fail to grasp to differences that make us all unique.
What you did was right for you at that time. If you feel later it's time for a change, that's your decision.

[carrie-ann]

You come out on your terms not there's. You did the wright thing.

[AmandaM]

Look kiddo, don't come out if it may cost you your job. No GLBT group is gonna start sending you checks. In this economy, look out for number one. Then, IF IT CAN BE DONE without harming yourself, take some positive steps. It's no fun being a martyr to the cause if you're in a soup line.

[sometimes_miss]

Despite what anyone else may say, especially regarding the fact that it shouldn't be important whether you are tg or cd or anything, for that matter, it that you should always err on the side of caution. Even if there are some people that will support you should you decide to 'come out', if there is any reason that doing so will cause any type of problems for you, then don't do it unless you want to have to deal with those problems every day for the rest of your life. As someone else wrote, you can't put the toothpaste back into the tube.

[Dayna]

Be glad that you have co-workers who will defend you; perhaps you can come out to them one day, but do it on YOUR terms. Although I have not come out to anyone other than my wife (and my sisters here on the 'board, of course), if confronted tomorrow I think I'd be likely to say, "Why yes I am a cross-dresser. Next question?"

You will know when you are ready.

Now, one thing that does surprise me is that by and large, I only saw one prior reply that mentioned the illegality of what happened. If your co-workers are sitting together in a room, on company time, discussing your femininity / sexuality, then you dear are working in a hostile environment. That is against the law, and you should never have to wonder what anyone is thinking about you--or how they may be treating you (negatively) because of who they suspect you are.

I strongly encourage you to have a confidential meeting with your Human Resources Manager, and have them document the incident (no, you do not have to tell them you are anything, other than uncomfortable with the way you were treated).

I pray that everyone at your workplace with drop it, and treat you with equal respect; but if there is an incident--teasing, inappropriate jokes, or God-forbid a confrontation, you want the law on your side.

Just my 2 cents.

Good luck, and be careful.

[Rachel Morley]

No I don't think you made a mistake. It's none of their business what you do or don't do to your body and it doesn't mean you are gay if you are effeminate. I think you made a wise decision to keep quiet about being a CDer and just told them only what you want them to know. I too have shaved arms and thin tweezed eyebrows and if anyone mentioned it to me I would just say, I know seems unusual but I Happen to prefer it.

At the end of the day, they can't fire you for it and as long as you don't do anything to give them cause to claim "poor work performance" ... it's their problem not yours. :2c:

[Barbara Dugan]

Just a quick update, I had my regular haircut and had my brows waxed and they noticed but this time nobody said anything..I guess they got over it:)