I Can Never Go Topless in Public Again!

[Traci Elizabeth]

I not too long ago stated that I could no longer hide the fact that I have female breasts and that I was busting out of an "A" cup bra.

Well now none of my "A"'s fit and I am filling out a "B" cup really nice (not popping out of a "B" yet but maybe if I get lucky) all after only 6 months on HRT.

But today I had an "enlightenment" moment. It just really dawned on me that for the rest of my life, I can NEVER go topless in public again (well nude beach excepting).

My wife and I talked about this today after my enlightenment and she also pointed out the obvious that at family picnic functions, the pool, the beach, during the warm weather my time being bare-chested is forever gone.

I know that I have been waiting all my life for this moment but nonetheless, the realization that one can not do something EVER again in their life is a memorable moment not soon forgotten.

Has anyone else gone through this?

[Ze]

I haven't had the fortune of having this opposite effect yet. :) I can't wait for the day I can run around bare-chested and go swimming and all that stuff.

I'm glad you've hit this new point in your life. :)

[Byanca]

I have almost never gone topless anyhow. I can probably count the times on one hand, after puberty. And then among strangers, as some sort of weird exhibitionist a few times. Although none have reacted. :doh:

If I could just use tiny tops, that would be more nude then I'd ever dare do.

I think your enlightenment sounds marvellous. How liberating. I can understand the topless thing, if one has gotten used to being nude.

[Steph.TS]

I have a deformity in my chest, I've never felt comfortable going topless b4... I did at the pool when I went long time ago, but I felt wierd doing that anyways, boobs won't make a big impact for how I do things just how I dress :P

[Traci Elizabeth]

I haven't had the fortune of having this opposite effect yet. :) I can't wait for the day I can run around bare-chested and go swimming and all that stuff.

I'm glad you've hit this new point in your life. :)


Your day will come Ze and I am sure you will be no less happy than I am now with having mine.

BTW, from your pics, you really are a handsome "guy." You ought to be very pleased with your appearance. If I were in class with you or your professor, I would have no earthly idea you were "once" a woman.

[Ze]

Well shucks, Traci, you sure know how to make a guy feel good about himself. :o

[Barbara Dugan]

I have a third nipple and some gyno I never go topples too:hugs:

[Billijo49504]

Traci, Join the club:D I've been a B for about the last lifetime and now even though I'm loosing weight, the gurls are getting bigger. Now I'm a 42C and the last time I was measured, she said I was a 1/4 inch from a D. Wait till you have to wear a bra so they don't bounce, that hurts. And I haven't even started hormones yet. I won't get my letter for 2 weeks...BJ

[sandra-leigh]

It just really dawned on me that for the rest of my life, I can NEVER go topless in public again (well nude beach excepting).


In Canada, high courts in the province of Ontario and one other province ruled that females have a right to be topless in public provided that it is not sexualized. Since then, the matter hasn't been tested in court in other provinces, as the concensus floating around is that the rulings were sufficiently clear and strong enough precedent that it is likely other provincial courts would rule the same way.

Of course, in most of Canada if it isn't winter then it is the season for biting insects, so the rulings haven't had as much impact as might otherwise be expected :battingeyelashes:

Really, though, there is a serious point here, which is that it turns out that a lot of expectation that Breasts Shall Not Be Visible is cultural or moral rather than legal. Especially on private property in an area not visible to the public, whether you can go topless or not depends upon your comfort and upon the decision of the property owner. If you are at a family gathering and it is a situation in which you would before have taken off your shirt, then there is nothing inherently preventing you from asking if they'd mind if you took off your shirt.

Yes, "nice women don't take off their tops in public" because... because... because... ummm, maybe something to do with fig leaves, but in truth in history there have been numerous societies and time periods in which "nice women" did just that. And it is still true in Europe, especially near waterfronts; and from what I've read, Germany apparently has a fair number of public parks in which going topless is considered healthy (in both a physical and psychological sense.)

If there should in future come a time when you feel that you would like to take off your top, then consider whether you are being held back mostly by expectations; if so then you would have a right to question the expectations, including out-loud.


Another note is that breast size is not in itself the determinant. Earlier this year, I was temporarily up to 36B, but I could easily have gone topless without much attention: the volume was distributed and the projection was moderate. At my peak, I was well short of the visible size of some "moobs" I have seen at beaches and pools and yards around here. Underwire bras made a lot of difference in the perception of my chest. What did not have was conical or tubular breasts; I also did not have chest skin loose enough to allow the tissues or fat to move around. My peak volume was more than my wife, but the shape of her breasts was different enough from mine that she had "boobs" pretty much no matter what she did, whereas I only had "boobs" when they were pushed into shape. I'm roughly 38A now, but people would be unlikely to notice unless they saw me bent over -- and if I am bent over, then my breastage becomes noticeable even if I'm wearing a typical shirt.

You thus have to ask yourself whether the purpose of the shirt is to hide the fact that you have breast volume, or to hide the fact that you have female breast shape, or simply to cover them up because female-looking breasts Aren't Shown In Polite Company (except, of course, when they are, like see-through or tight sweater or plunge tops or ...)


Addendum: After posting this, I looked at the online news and discovered that today was "Top Freedom Day of Pride" in Guelph Ontario (Canada). The news article cited the exact court case that I made mention of at the beginning of my response.

[Traci Elizabeth]

Very interesting points Sandra-Leigh brings up.

Perhaps I need to elaborate a little more about myself, my surroundings, and interests.

I am a 36B and do have female looking breasts not excuse the expression "man-boobs" and they do project a fair amount in everything I wear. But I am also small boned and very thin and only 5' 7".

My personal taste is that I have no problem displaying my boobs in an acceptable place. For example, my wife and I have been to the nude beach on St. Martin many times and enjoy it. I guess you could call us nudists at heart, and when we can get away with it.

We do live on a fairly large piece of property and we are free to roam it as naked as we please and being from the South now, it stays warms much longer in the year.

The flip side of that, however, is that the South is as close to absolute conservationism as one can get. So public display of nudity or breasts would get you arrested for sure. But what is funny, our law like yours in Canada is that we can be totally naked on our own property as long as it is not viewable from a "public road."

It does not matter what your neighbors can or can not see. They just have to accept it, put up a privacy fence, or move.

We have told our neighbors who we rarely see since all the properties surrounding us are quite large that if they were to wonder on our property there is a good chance we would be naked drinking a glass of wine and swatting mosquito's (lol).

Needless to say, they have never wondered on our property.

But all of this is totally getting away from my "enlightenment." And what I was trying to express originally, is that there are not many times in life that you realize you can NEVER do something again in the general sense.

It just hit me today and I wanted to share it with all of you.

[kellycan27]

The way men gawk here in the USA , I hardly even go braless anymore. They'ed probably have a stroke of one type or the other upon seeing exposed female breasts in public.:heehee:
I have gone topless in the Bahamas a couple of times where most of the men were European, and nobody seemed to pay much mind.

[Traci Elizabeth]

The way men gawk here in the USA , I hardly even go braless anymore. They'ed probably have a stroke of one type or the other upon seeing exposed female breasts in public.:heehee:
I have gone topless in the Bahamas a couple of times where most of the men were European, and nobody seemed to pay much mind.

I was wondering when you were going to chime in Kel!

[kellycan27]

I was wondering when you were going to chime in Kel!

I figured I'd pipe up since I do have um...lol

[Fab Karen]

It's all cultural conditioning- once upon a time, a woman showing her ankles was considered very shocking.

[Danni Bear]

Traci,

It is quite disconcerting when you realise that something you have always done is no longer available to you.

But just think, now you get to wear all those adorable bikini's. :devil:

:hugs:
Danni

[Traci Elizabeth]

Traci,

It is quite disconcerting when you realise that something you have always done is no longer available to you.

But just think, now you get to wear all those adorable bikini's. :devil:

:hugs:
Danni


BINGO! :thumbup:

[sandra-leigh]

But all of this is totally getting away from my "enlightenment." And what I was trying to express originally, is that there are not many times in life that you realize you can NEVER do something again in the general sense.


Atch, well you know me... if some-one says "can't", I ask "Sez who?" and "why not?" :battingeyelashes:

That and the fact that I'm a member of the Society For The Promotion of Breast Visibility :D


Seriously though... yeh. I've been thinking seriously about HRT, and trying to deal emotionally with the probable consequences upon reproduction, sexual desire, and serious interference with some forms of sexual activity. Contemplating "Never Again" to those things involves some mourning and grieving.

[Traci Elizabeth]

Seriously though... yeh. I've been thinking seriously about HRT, and trying to deal emotionally with the probable consequences upon reproduction, sexual desire, and serious interference with some forms of sexual activity. Contemplating "Never Again" to those things involves some mourning and grieving.

That is something to seriously ponder as in all probability that is exactly what is going to happen.

But the one thing I will tell you is that you are thinking that way from a "male's" sexual mind set.

I promise you that in fact, you have no earthly idea how those desires would effect you after being on HRT.

They best way I can explain it is to reflect back to before you had sex or even really knew what sex was. How could you then have missed something you had no desires for?

Well the same thing happens to most of us on HRT. You actually wind up with Zero, Nada, No male sexual drives or interest. So when you no longer actually have those desires any more, you don't miss them or long for them. In fact, you don't even think about them.

That is not to say that "female" type sexual feelings don't start to develop.

But you will NEVER know nor can anyone predict including me how you as an individual will feel until you actual have gone through it.

So I do feel for your concerns & wish you well and I am sure you will ultimately come up with the right decision that works best for you.

[Byanca]

The never again part I think regarding children. It's what has always been holding me back. Like ever, and still does. The paradox is that I'm not hot on having regular sex with women. I've only done it a few times, and have found it to be very awkward, and prone to failure. So how on earth I am going to have my own children I have no idea...and years go past...

[Chickhe]

There is a loophole in the laws which say a female must not bare their breasts... it doesn't apply to TG people... bonus or not? So legally you can still go topless...but you may not want to, for obvious reasons.

[sandra-leigh]

There is a loophole in the laws which say a female must not bare their breasts... it doesn't apply to TG people

More correctly, laws that are specific to women theoretically do not apply to those who are not legally women. But you just have to look at the incident a month or so ago about the MTF with implants who were pretty nearly arrested for going topless on a beach to see the reality.



So how on earth I am going to have my own children I have no idea...and years go past...

I know what you mean. My wife and I left things too late and aging overtook us.

Just last week I read about a famous actor announcing the birth of a new child, and the actor was 73 -- and there is a part of me that resists giving up on possibilities like that. If for whatever reason I were to find myself with someone else when I was (say) 65, and they were to say, "I want your children!"... well, part of me wants to preserve the possibility to jump on a chance such as that. Intellectually, I know that to be "magic thinking", but the urge to have children is not especially rational in the first place.

The rational response to keep my options open would be a sperm bank... but then emotionally, thoughts run through my head such as, "Oh yah? Who is going to want to have children with an perverted old freak with boobs?" I don't bad-talk myself very much, but I seem to make an exception on this topic.

Where am I likely to head on this matter? Probably in the direction that I think I need to at least try hormones or else by the time I get to those fairy-tail circumstances I'm probably not going to be in much shape to enjoy much anyhow.

[Danni Bear]

Sandra,
Checked the laws in Texas. It says feminine appearing not specifically female. so I would assume that moobs could fall under the same law lol

Danni

[Empress Lainie]

I was very happy when my breasts became big enough and obvious enough to not go bare chested.

I know I have read about laws in some new england state that women have as much right to go topless as men. Can't remember the place, though.

[PretzelGirl]

I think that is shaky ground. I don't care what a law says. If we want to be treated like women (or the reverse for the gentlemen here), then we need to act like the laws for women apply to us also. If we say that they don't, then we don't have a leg to stand on for anything else and quite frankly, wouldn't deserve it. One standard!

[Traci Elizabeth]

I think that is shaky ground. I don't care what a law says. If we want to be treated like women (or the reverse for the gentlemen here), then we need to act like the laws for women apply to us also. If we say that they don't, then we don't have a leg to stand on for anything else and quite frankly, wouldn't deserve it. One standard!


That is a very good point that we should all remember. It can't be "both" ways. It's one or the other else one must not be serious about their transition.

[Melissa A.]

Keeping in mind that we Americans are often like 12 year olds when it comes to anything to do with breasts, of course I keep myself covered at all times. I also sleep in undies and a nightshirt, where I used to normally go to bed naked. I don't remember the day it happened, or making a conscious decision, it was just a natural outgrowth of being a woman, and living as one.
I also can't wait to get that darned bra off at the end of the day!

Hugs,

Melissa:)

[Chickhe]

Funny Texas law... 'appearing feminine'.... what the heck does that mean? Wait for the first guy wearing a kilt with man boobs to be arrested by an ignorant police person? Or does it mean the bearded lady can go topless if she doesn't look so pretty...gee wiz. I'm all for topless anyone or no one... some guys should wear shirts all the time too (or a least shave their chest hair).

[Traci Elizabeth]

Keeping in mind that we Americans are often like 12 year olds when it comes to anything to do with breasts, of course I keep myself covered at all times. I also sleep in undies and a nightshirt, where I used to normally go to bed naked. I don't remember the day it happened, or making a conscious decision, it was just a natural outgrowth of being a woman, and living as one.
I also can't wait to get that darned bra off at the end of the day!

Hugs,

Melissa:)


This is really funny because I too have changed from ALWAYS sleeping naked my whole adult life to now 99% of the time going to bed in my undies and a night shirt.

The first thing I do when I walk into the house BEFORE anything is to rip my bra off. I never understood why my wife did that every day until I had boobs!

It's really funny how we change, and how we seem to "naturally" fall into the behavioral patterns typical of a natal female. But that's all GOOD!

I can't relate to you the countless times I have told my wife "Now I understand....."

Men are basically ignorant! :D

[kellycan27]

I still sleep naked... soooo much more comfy. I have even gotten Mr. pj bottoms into the habit. :heehee:

Kel

[Traci Elizabeth]

I still sleep naked... soooo much more comfy. I have even gotten Mr. pj bottoms into the habit. :heehee:

Kel

Not as COLD as my wife keeps our home to help relieve her "Hot Flashes"!

We can both live with each others "Hot Flashes" as long as we both don't have one at the SAME time.

When that happens, our dog and cats trample over each other trying to run for the hills!

[Ze]

Men are basically ignorant! :D

Not all of us. :D

[kellycan27]

Not as COLD as my wife keeps our home to help relieve her "Hot Flashes"!

We can both live with each others "Hot Flashes" as long as we both don't have one at the SAME time.

When that happens, our dog and cats trample over each other trying to run for the hills!



I am sorry....:heehee:

[CharleneT]

I came to that tipping point a few months ago and had to deal with it in a very direct way. My fav sport is swimming and of course there was a point where I could not go in a men's suit. Fortunately, shortly after that, I went full time. Now it doesn't matter because I'm wearing a woman's suit and it all works out. So I get to continue to enjoy the water.

Curiously, I'm also a member of the former "nude when asleep" crowd; but now night shirt or PJ's. I slept the other night nude, it was a hot and humid night and I couldn't get to sleep at first. When I woke up I felt down right weird and realized it was because of the lack of PJ's....

Sue: GREAT POINT !!

[Starling]

For me, sleeping in the nude went out with the Northridge earthquake of 1994.

:heehee: Lallie

[CharleneT]

For me, sleeping in the nude went out with the Northridge earthquake of 1994.

:heehee: Lallie

that would do it -- for sure :eek:

[7sisters]

LALady your post here has to be the most sensible thing I have heard in the last 20 years. Madame trust me, you are most amazing and most unique.

[Linda St. John]

Hi Traci, I've been on HRT since1998 and developed rather obvious breasts within the first year. I soon got used to covering up ...even in that ever so female way with the crossed arms and cupped hands when I realized that passersby could see into my house if I didn't draw the shades....
I simply wouldn't go outside without a shirt but it's not something that you'll regret -- believe me !

Linda

[sandra-leigh]

For me, sleeping in the nude went out with the Northridge earthquake of 1994.

The area I live in turns out to have amongst the lowest earthquake rates in the world -- but my wife has been known to forget to close the bedroom door when there are other people in the house.

Being seen doesn't bother me; potential overreaction and legal trouble bothers me.