hey, how are my gay male crossdressers doing?

[maya1love]

I'm always interested in bringing my sub-sorority of gay male crossdressers together to talk about issues important to us. I was wondering if any of you ladies have been dating any guys recently.

Dating continues to be very tricky for me. I like guys that are very straight looking, and I happen to be a softer gay male (who dresses). I was recently at a week long gay retreat with about 150 gay men. It was great, but I couldn't help feel left out because the straight looking guys seemed to be attracted to the other straight looking guys. (sigh) So, I came home, and put an ad on craigslist looking for a straight looking guy that likes fem guys who crossdress...seems like these guys are mostly bi, and would never commit to me openly...oh well...I would be curious to hear your experiences of late.

ps. Let's keep this post on topic regarding gay male crossdressers and our dating experiences with men :)

[Barbara Dugan]

I am on my part really struggling on the dating department. I can get sex any moment I want but those moments are short lived and most straight acting guys see you only as a sexual fantasy.
What I really long is for a real stable relationship. I am think I am ready for one but everyday seem harder to reach:doh:

I am sorry :cry: This thread is making me depressed

[maya1love]

Don't be discouraged, Barbara! Although there are fewer men who like us and would be suitable partners for us, we only need one man. I seem to have discovered a way to weed out the good ones from the not so good ones. I think the problem that alot of TVs have is that because they are in the closet, they can't attract a suitable man. When I gained confidence to go out in the mainstream dressed, I was able to change my internet personal ads to say that I wanted to go out to dinner or a movie with a man dressed with no expectation of sex. If you have an ad that says that you are just looking for a nice evening with a man, and that you are confident out in public dressed up, you will attract a better crop of men.

[msjessgill]

Hi,

I have had some success in the dating department as of late. Especially this one guy I met, he and I find each others company to be warm, loving, and engaging. He is straight acting and is wonderful about what i do as well (dressing), and we have been out as a couple too!!

[joannemarie barker]

I'm still umming and aaahing about my sexuality but there's one guy I know that gives me butterflies in my stomach everytime I see him.think he's straight though :(

[Byanca]

I have the same problem. I have my page on the main gay site, and I get lots of replays. But 99% is sex, sex and sex. To the point that I don't bother to replay much to what is coming in anymore. I will have to be more specific and clear. The last thing I am interested in is some shady hidden sex meeting because they live double lives. It's quite depressing at times.

[MiraM]

Looks as though I will be trying to get back into the dating scene again eventually. Unfortunately, there does not seem to be much in this area for Gays unless one wanted to go to Norfolk or Richmond...neither of which is an option for me. It looks like most 'dating' sites are geared towards hetero's or quick hookups, and Craig's list is all about 'straight' (sorry, but if you are a guy having sex with a guy you are not straight) guys wanting to get some on the side from a guy. Not sure what I am going to do once I am ready to start dating again. Oh well, there are other things to worry about first like finding a roommate so I don't wind up living in the woods.

[Byanca]

(sorry, but if you are a guy having sex with a guy you are not straight)
Well, I'm not a guy. But gay sites are full of bisexuals. Even straight ones looking for CD/TS etc. As long as they like different roles, I only do the woman part, then it's all good. But I expect most/all gay guys to pass me over. I also go to the gay pub. And both the males and females there look at me as different-and I guess I am(probably a hetero woman-slightly male looking). But they usually accept me, so then that's fine. I call it the safe house. I don't expect to find romance there, but I have in the past, with a bisexual one, that was fine with me being passive.

[MiraM]

Well, I'm not a guy. But gay sites are full of bisexuals. Even straight ones looking for CD/TS etc. As long as they like different roles, I only do the woman part, then it's all good. But I expect most/all gay guys to pass me over. I also go to the gay pub. And both the males and females there look at me as different-and I guess I am(probably a hetero woman-slightly male looking). But they usually accept me, so then that's fine. I call it the safe house. I don't expect to find romance there, but I have in the past, with a bisexual one, that was fine with me being passive.

I am refering to the people that post on Craig's list with things like "I'm straight but I want a guy to come over and do such and such with me..." Sorry, but these people are not straight.

[MsJanessa]

That's sometimes an issue with us Gay CDs---lucky for Me that I'm not attracted to butch types except under very special narrow circumstances---give Me a femme guy, CD, or GG anytime

[Shayna2008]

I want to date a guy eventually. I find myself attracted to very masculine guys; I think 98% of the guys I consider are most likely straight though. I have much work to do as Shayna though as far as getting more comfortable going out but I'm in a position where this is much easier to do now plus I have CD girlfriends to go with too, so that will help definitely. Definitely noticing the guys though! :heehee:

[Michelle_Tokyo]

It has been a bit hit and miss for me lately too I admit. Recently I thought I had a good thing going with a guy who said he was totally fine with my femininity but after catching my heart, it later turned out he wanted a more masculine partner. :eek:It took him 4 months and way too many romantic dates to get around to telling me so I cried a bit. But I cannot fault him really. I also like more masculine guys.

I guess my first clue should have been when he said he did not mind. If guy wants me because of who I am that is great, but if he simply is tolerating one part of me that is not so fine.

Before him though I had gone through a pretty long dry spell so I would have dated almost any man at that stage. Before him I was in a long and wonderful relationship with a guy that loved me to be his princess :battingeyelashes:and then work and moving caused to need to end that time of joy. But I miss him a lot and I am trying to find a new guy to take his place.:daydreaming:

Michelle

[María José]

I can get sex any moment I want but those moments are short lived and most straight acting guys see you only as a sexual fantasy.



I agree with Barbara.

A few days ago I was as MarÃ*a José in a GLT Club. I danced all the night. A lot of boys looking at me, but only one danced and talked to me. Now and then I receive internet messages from boys in my area. But they always want a meeting in a diferent town where they live.

[maya1love]

Thanks for the replies!

Hi msjessgill and michelle_tokyo: I was curious -- where did you meet your boyfriends?

I would say personally that every guy I've dated (who I dated as a man with a man) and then later told that I like to dress, were supportive of me. Two of them even bought me lingerie on special occasions! Unfortunately, something wouldn't work out and we would usually break up for other reasons. So, I think gay men are mostly more accepting than straight women, in this department. I tell a gay man that I like to dress up, and he says "so what?"

The question that I struggle with is whether I should "market" myself as a gay man, and then tell him the truth, or be up front about it. I think I am an advocate of the former. (And actually, the advice would be the same for heterosexual cds as well.)

[Michelle_Tokyo]

The most recent guy I met on a dating site. We emailed a bit and moved on to dating. He is really nice, but a little lacking in backbone.

The guy I was with for a longer time I met at a social event in Singapore. That was our serendipity and I think that went a long way to making it as warm a relationship as it was. We started as two men and then Michelle came to play and she stayed. He was good about it telling me I needed to choose between one or the other and I opted for Michelle at home with him and when we went out for dinner. I think the main reason was not that he liked me being Michelle, but rather that he knew that that is me and asking me not to be me was not realistic. He is a sweet man for sure. I was and am convinced he loved me for me inside not outside.

I am not sure about straight women having issues more often than gay guys though. In my experience gay men tend to want men to be men. Therein lies the attraction. I know I want my man to be all man so I know that it is logical he may want the same.

When I am out with straight women they always seem to support me. I was having wine at a new wine bar the other day here and was out with a couple of gals. We were talking about whatever and one of the waiters was passing behind me when gave me a very warm hug and then kept doing his job. I was a bit taken with him and my galfriends noticed and encouraged me. They were poking fun at me all night after that, snapping my bra and gently chiding me to go get his number. I assure I will be doing that. Mmmm…….

[PrettyFlowingGown]

I've gone through bisexuality, and told myself a year ago, I'll never go back, but recently I've had feelings towards males again. Theres a guy at our local rsl whos a barman. I was there on sunday with a girlfreind and she noticed i kept staring at him. She said "You've been looking at him a long time". I said "Yes, hes quite nice". She said "Have you still got some gay feelings". I said "I guess i have". I dont fancy men on a whole, especially ones with beards. moustaches, hasiry chests.....YOUCK!!! but I love a good clean young man.

[Gina X]

I consider myself TV and not gay but when in TV mode I could easily make love to another TV but not someone who is openly gay, so what does this make me ??

Love Ginax

[kimdl93]

Thanks for the replies!

The question that I struggle with is whether I should "market" myself as a gay man, and then tell him the truth, or be up front about it. )

Honesty is always the best policy. I think I'm right in assuming that you would prefer to date as TS/man rather than man/man... So maybe the thing is to look for men who are really interested in transexuals...there are a lot of them out there...rather than traditional gay men. I bet there are some very straight-looking gay (or sorta hetero) males who would find you to be the answer to their dreams!

[Barbara Dugan]

Honesty is always the best policy. I think I'm right in assuming that you would prefer to date as TS/man rather than man/man... So maybe the thing is to look for men who are really interested in transexuals...there are a lot of them out there...rather than traditional gay men. I bet there are some very straight-looking gay (or sorta hetero) males who would find you to be the answer to their dreams!


That would be an ideal situation but if you market yourself as a gay man they usually run the other way around...my problem lies that sometimes they think I am a transexual or a fulltime t-girl then they start asking questions like how real are your breasts or if you are still functional:doh: and I totally agree honestly is the best policy I always disclaim what I am:love:

[msjessgill]

I met my current boyfriend online and we have both been extremely happy!!

Jessica

[maya1love]

I'm with Barbara on that one -- I don't think it's a good idea to market myself as a transsexual to guys, because then they expect me to be a woman all the time. There are the straight looking gay guys that like feminine gay men, but they are few and far between. Still, that's what I am looking for...

Hey, had another question for you guys -- as gay men, do you find that you are gay acting? Do people know that you are gay from your interests, your voice, etc. I would say that I am in the middle in terms of my mannerisms. Most people know that I am gay pretty soon after meeting me. I am slight, soft looking, talk with a gayish voice and love Madonna and Cher. How about you guys?

[joannemarie barker]

Not sure my habits and such out of girly mode are that fem really.I am attracted to some masculine men but I kinda like soft spoken effeminate guys,something about them that's really cute

[Michelle_Tokyo]

I guess I do act overtly gay to some extent, but not all the time. My eyebrows are super femme looking and I talk rather effeminately when with gals. Around guys that are straight though I tend to act more male. At the gym I dress with strappy women’s tanktops and tuck inside of my cycling shorts and have no hair below the neck so that is a pretty big hint. But my interests in conversation with women is pretty obvious, not so much with guys at work. Self-preservation.

[Barbara Dugan]

I wax my eyebrows and I have been shaving my body for a long time but recently some guys at work noticed it and now the rummor started that I may be gay:heehee:....I am not out at work because is not safe to do it but people with a normal gaydar can read me pretty esay :)

[CDastoria]

This is one of the best threads on this forum for me.

I'm still trying to decide whether I am trans or just a gay male transvestite. The problem is that I live as a regular gay male but I'm not naturally femme or soft.
Finding a gay male who would be into someone like me seems to be impossible. Someone like me usually attracts gay men who look for someone who is pretty masculine so I feel like it's a bit of a false exterior. Straight and bi men want me full time and gay men hate it. So I feel like I'm at a crossroads.

[Newbridget]

I have been dating a nice guy for a while now and having a lot of fun. He likes and encourages my dressing and being femme for him. I enjoy it too and we have a lot of fun together.

[Dora Faye]

I'm not gay but very bi. Super glad I found this thread though as I've been having a lot of feelings about having a man. He'd have to be very sweet and gentle and be crazy about me the way I am. I don't even much care how he looks...well, as long as he doesn't weigh 400 lbs lol.



The question that I struggle with is whether I should "market" myself as a gay man, and then tell him the truth, or be up front about it. I think I am an advocate of the former. (And actually, the advice would be the same for heterosexual cds as well.)

My gut feeling is tell them the truth from the get go. Less crossed wires and hurt feelings in the end.

[legz31]

I can go on and on about this topic

[joannemarie barker]

I think you would be better off trying some gay clubs than online legs Hun

[windycissy]

Great thread! As you say, most gay guys aren't looking for guys who look and act like girls, but there are a lot of bi-curious guys out there, I think many of them secretly wish they could dress and pass as chicks too. Anyhoo I've had some luck with Craigslist, you're right that like 80% of the hits you get are from guys who are only looking for sex but if you're patient and careful you can weed out the sickos and I've met some wonderful guys that way. Like you said, it's smart to say upfront that you're looking to meet a guy who will take you to nice places, and always insist on a picture from the neck up! I recently put a personal on Craigslist challenging guys to beat a TGirl at tennis, with a picture of me in my tennis dress, met a really cool guy who's become my tennis partner and bed buddy too :)

[joannemarie barker]

Aaaawww great story :) hmmm a bed buddy :) I'm beginning to long to wake up being spooned by my man :)

[maya1love]

Hey all...glad that this thread is continuing!

I just want to clarify something that I see repeated quite a bit in threads on this forum. Often times, the issues around being a gay male crossdresser are confused with the issue of "whether I am gay because I fantasize about being with a man while dressed". There are tons of threads dealing with the latter on this forum. My view is that having fantasies about being with a man while dressed is not the same thing as calling yourself a "gay male crossdresser". For me, a gay male crossdresser is simply a male crossdresser who envisions being with a man as a primary life partner, who falls in love with a man, and is primarily attracted to men, and who can envision living day-to-day with a man in a conjugal relationship, regardless of whether he is dressed in women's clothes or not. To help those questioning themselves, I would probably ask the question, "Are you primarily attracted to men regardless of what you are wearing?" If so, you're mostly likely "gay". If you are only attracted to men when you are dressed as a woman, and you also find yourself attracted to women, then I don't think that you are gay -- perhaps, you are bisexual. (Hope you won't all clobber me for saying that!) I remember when I was questioning my sexuality, I seemed to be focused on who I fantasize about being with in bed. A dear friend clarified that "sexual orientation" was much deeper than sex -- it was about who we fall in love with and who we enjoy romance with.

So, as someone who still envisions being with a man even when I'm not dressed as a girl (although I would like to be seen as the fem in the relationship), I've come to the conclusion that I really should stick to the gay male community in terms of looking for an ideal mate. The reason that I feel this way is because most trans-admirers that I have met seem to have a great deal of difficulty being with me when I am not in girl mode. Being in a relationship with me involves being with my male self 90% of the time, and my female self 10% of the time. And, luckily there are some gay men out there who have been fine with my dressing and treating me like the girl in the relationship, so I feel like that has to be the closest fit at this point...:)

[windycissy]

I'm not much into labels, although I guess you could put me on the BT end of the GLBT rainbow: I dig girls when I'm a guy and dig guys when I'm a girl...

[charlotte_sp]

Well, I wouldn't identify as gay male cross-dresser, but I want to support this thread!
Smash the heteronormative ownership paradigm!


So, as someone who still envisions being with a man even when I'm not dressed as a girl (although I would like to be seen as the fem in the relationship), I've come to the conclusion that I really should stick to the gay male community in terms of looking for an ideal mate. The reason that I feel this way is because most trans-admirers that I have met seem to have a great deal of difficulty being with me when I am not in girl mode. Being in a relationship with me involves being with my male self 90% of the time, and my female self 10% of the time.

I feel exactly that anxiety about hetero guys, especially ones looking specifically for trans girls. I mean besides the creepy chaser factor, I would worry constantly about their reaction to my male self, even though I would want to be full-time female with them. Basically, I'm afraid to even put myself in that position.

I was playing with a hetero male friend, and when he was taping my ankles together, he mentioned something about my not having shaved some spots. It was probably just an innocuous comment, but I remember feeling a bit awkward at that point. He has been totally cool, so I wasn't really worried. If it had been a first or second date with some guy I didn't know as well, and he made a comment like that, I would not have felt comfortable at all.

Most gay guys at the bars and clubs I go to don't seem to pay much attention to me for whatever reason (maybe because they think I'm a girl? hehe wishful thinking :daydreaming:). I do seem to attract the creepy old man demographic though D:

[Michelle8]

I too am attracted to guys when dressed.I would love to have a boyfriend to go out with and other things. hee hee

[joannemarie barker]

I harbour the being with a man in fem mode fantasy but I am attracted to men when in drab too.interestingly when I'm fem I want a masculine man to be the dominant partner but in drab I like effeminate men who would want me to be the masculine partner.without lowering the tone I'm also attracted to CDs more than ggs cos they are fem and pretty and it kinda excites me to know what they have in their panties :o

[bridget jones]

I want a dominant man also. I get dressed up and I want him. I'd like to get with a clean shavin body building guy though,just want him to be hung. Sorry if I offend any girls by saying that,it's just what I'd like to have.

[CDastoria]

So, as someone who still envisions being with a man even when I'm not dressed as a girl (although I would like to be seen as the fem in the relationship), I've come to the conclusion that I really should stick to the gay male community in terms of looking for an ideal mate. The reason that I feel this way is because most trans-admirers that I have met seem to have a great deal of difficulty being with me when I am not in girl mode. Being in a relationship with me involves being with my male self 90% of the time, and my female self 10% of the time. And, luckily there are some gay men out there who have been fine with my dressing and treating me like the girl in the relationship, so I feel like that has to be the closest fit at this point...:)

Well that's the problem: how do you find gay guys who are ok with you as a woman?
I mean, i'm normally a masculine gay dude who loves to dress and be the woman in the relationship and ESPECIALLY in the bedroom. I've tried finding total tops to date but even they are turned off when they hear I dress. When do you usually tell them that you dress?
I feel like it's kinda false-advertising: they think they're going to get this masculine guy when, in reality, i'm a total fem bottom in the relationship. :( I feel like maybe I should try and fem myself up in everyday life so that guys know?
I also feel like it'd be a helluva lot easier to get what I want if I just transitioned. :( So frustrating.

[charlotte_sp]

I'd like to get with a clean shavin body building guy though,just want him to be hung.

Q: What do you call a guy with a 12-inch dick hanging out at a gay bar?
A: A bottom

[Christa]

Thanks for kick starting this thread Maya. We're a subculture that could use a little more visibility.

I've been with my guy for nearly 20 years now (we were babies when we met!). We met, fell in love and built a life together. THEN I told him I was a CD. While he wasn't too surprised, he made it clear that he has no interest in ever seeing me as Christa.

I don't like giving advice, but if I had it to do over I wish I would have been more comfortable about my CD identity when we met. I think meeting guys online (chat) isn't all bad. At least they know what they're getting into. The key is to be clear and direct about what you're after (relationship, friendship or just sex). There's no guarantee you won't get your heart broken, but that's true no matter what.

[Tima]

hey, how are my gay male crossdressers doing?
I'm always interested in bringing my sub-sorority of gay male crossdressers together to talk about issues important to us. I was wondering if any of you ladies have been dating any guys recently.

Hello! I’m doing OK. I’m in school at the moment, looking for the right guy, but so far I haven’t bumped into anyone that I would like to date. It’s difficult for me, because I don’t have many resources, I’m an awkward distance from home, and I’m pretty picky about who I go out with. I used to have a cute boyfriend back in high school, but his family moved away. We still write to each other. We had to be discrete is this homophobic atmosphere, but we managed to meet up after school quite often. Luckily, I’m only a short walk from many good places for dates. It helps that I can pass as a female, because gangs of loitering boys are everywhere. My boyfriend was kinda geeky, so he was also a target for bullies. Often we would just walk hand-in-hand through the woods that surround this area and talk about anything on our minds, getting away to our own space for some peace and quiet. I miss him, and I feel lonely these days. I hope I can find somebody new. It’s not easy.
:sad:

[maya1love]

Hi cdastoria: I had read another thread that you had written a little while ago, and it looks like you were lucky enough to meet a gay guy who was accepting of your dressing. So, I think that they are out there. I wouldn't "fem" yourself up to be more attractive to the type of guy that you like. You are who you are -- a reasonably masculine guy who likes to be feminine in the bedroom. This is no different than the straight crossdresser who is mostly masculine, but likes to dress up. I've never heard a straight crossdresser say that he should be more feminine in his day to day life just to attract a woman. As a masculine gay guy, you are a pretty hot commodity in the gay community!

Hey Christa: So nice to hear from you again! As we said in our private conversations with each other, it seems like the grass is always greener on the other side! You wish that you could have been more out as a cd before you met your partner. Yet, so many of the girls on this thread just wish they could have a partner of 20 years! (sigh...) :)

[gerri ray]

Well as of Sunday after a long talk with my sister discussing personal feelings and all that jazz I came to the realisation that I'm gay. I'm perfectly fine with it. My sister said she has known for 6 years and has waited for me to figure it out lol. I love my sister cos she's the best. Anyway wanted to say hi to everyone.

[BrandiLynnCD]

Hi I'm Brandi just wanted to say I am a gay male crossdresser here. I am attracted to both regular gay guys and other dressers whether I am dressed up or not.

[gerri ray]

I am also attracted to non dressed males and dressed males, along with transexuals.

[sed49]

Eventually, I would like to date guys exclusively. I'm finding out that the more I look at women, I admire their beauty (and what they're wearing). At work, I try to be discreet, so when I see one of our admin assistants, I say something like "that outfit looks good on you" without getting more into it. In reality, I'm looking at how women put their outfits together.

Can someone tell me how does it feel when a guy wines you and dines you? It must be a wonderful feeling!

[Deidra Cowen]

I have found it is much easier to find a GG to date us than a man, in all my time of dressing I have had one BF that actually took me on dates and all that. Was a hoot! But I do have a couple of guys that regularly see me for naughty stuff, I admit I enjoy that and am friends with them. But they have to stay undercover. On what Barbara is talking about, My boss with out directly asking me was hinting around about guys that shave their arms. So at work they might be catching on. Oh well. I am a very high producer at work, should be ok.

[laurincd]

I sometimes feel a desire to experience dating a man. I prefer other CDs but I would like to try a man at least once.

Laurin

[maya1love]

Hi ladies:

Glad to see this thread is still kicking around! I actually have been meaning to post another question here for awhile, so here goes...

This is for all those that identify as mostly gay male crossdressers -- if you have gay male friends, do you feel differently from them? Do you think that, aside from your dressing, that you are like them? I have been feeling that I have some things in common with my gay male friends, but I feel separate from them. It's not about the "dressing" per se -- it's more about the absence of a feminine sensibility. I'm not sure how to describe it. My gay friends still think like men, whereas I don't, really. I can't get turned on being a man with another man (or with a woman, for that matter). I need to be feminine with a man. What is your experience?

[munshine nightwood]

Just came out of the closit after 3 marriges 4 kids. Just couldn't hide it anymore, told my mom and 2 oldest kids, yhey were very understanding of me. So my next step is to start hormons and be the femme that is dieing to come out of me. lol girls.

[StarrOfDelite]

For years before I got divorced, I thought that I could function as an "Admirer" with other Crossdressers, and had myself convinced I was not interested in men when I was in drab myself. After four years of being on my own, without the need to hide my preferences from other family members, I am now admitting to myself that my true nature is to be the female partner irrespective of the clothes I'm wearing. I have found that I enjoy the physical act of sex as much whether I begin the encounter in men's or women's clothing. But, having said that I can also say that the emotional satisfaction is much more intense when I'm cross-dressed, and that I am much more concerned and appreciative of foreplay, kissing, massaging, and conversational intimacy when I'm interacting through my feminine side.

[CDastoria]

This is for all those that identify as mostly gay male crossdressers -- if you have gay male friends, do you feel differently from them? Do you think that, aside from your dressing, that you are like them? I have been feeling that I have some things in common with my gay male friends, but I feel separate from them. It's not about the "dressing" per se -- it's more about the absence of a feminine sensibility. I'm not sure how to describe it. My gay friends still think like men, whereas I don't, really. I can't get turned on being a man with another man (or with a woman, for that matter). I need to be feminine with a man. What is your experience?

ABSOLUTELY. that's why it's so hard to find a man. and why i consider transitioning all the time.

[Barbara Dugan]

Hi ladies:

Glad to see this thread is still kicking around! I actually have been meaning to post another question here for awhile, so here goes...

This is for all those that identify as mostly gay male crossdressers -- if you have gay male friends, do you feel differently from them? Do you think that, aside from your dressing, that you are like them? I have been feeling that I have some things in common with my gay male friends, but I feel separate from them. It's not about the "dressing" per se -- it's more about the absence of a feminine sensibility. I'm not sure how to describe it. My gay friends still think like men, whereas I don't, really. I can't get turned on being a man with another man (or with a woman, for that matter). I need to be feminine with a man. What is your experience?

Every time I told my therapist the same thing she insist I may not be gay:doh:

[CDastoria]

Every time I told my therapist the same thing she insist I may not be gay:doh:

do you think she was trying to get you to see you might be trans and not gay?

[Kinky with Ink]

Hi ladies:

Glad to see this thread is still kicking around! I actually have been meaning to post another question here for awhile, so here goes...

This is for all those that identify as mostly gay male crossdressers -- if you have gay male friends, do you feel differently from them? Do you think that, aside from your dressing, that you are like them? I have been feeling that I have some things in common with my gay male friends, but I feel separate from them. It's not about the "dressing" per se -- it's more about the absence of a feminine sensibility. I'm not sure how to describe it. My gay friends still think like men, whereas I don't, really. I can't get turned on being a man with another man (or with a woman, for that matter). I need to be feminine with a man. What is your experience?

Omg my point exactly! Even when in drab and having sex I still still see myself as the woman. I'm definately the submissive in all my relationships and fem inside and out of the bedroom. I feel as if the rest of my gay friends have some things in common with me but the fact that I'm just this fem seems to turn alot of potential boyfriends away. For the most part I'm still in the closet about the dressing but wayyyyy out about being gay. Gay guys can be really critical of trans people. At least with me being gay I can be as fem as I want and most people are just like..."oh he's gay it's excusable" vs the straight and bi cd'ers on this site. Hopefully I'll find the "one" someday...*sigh*

[Barbara Dugan]

do you think she was trying to get you to see you might be trans and not gay?

Yes is exactly what she thinks...its funny but when we talk I always end up talking abut things that I normally dont

[CDastoria]

Yes is exactly what she thinks...its funny but when we talk I always end up talking abut things that I normally dont

And you disagree?

Well, maybe we are ALL kidding ourselves? that we're not gay men but really straight women?

[Barbara Dugan]

And you disagree?

Well, maybe we are ALL kidding ourselves? that we're not gay men but really straight women?

I kind of disagree but actually don't try to argue much about it.. I am starting to feel really comfortable on my current situation..

[CDastoria]

I kind of disagree but actually don't try to argue much about it.. I am starting to feel really comfortable on my current situation..

So has she said she'd start you on hormones if you wanted?

[Barbara Dugan]

So has she said she'd start you on hormones if you wanted?

We talked about it, but my goal at the moment is to balance myself emotionally first to make the right decision.
I already stopped the Testosterone replacement therapy and been feeling better

[maya1love]

Hi folks -- personally, I think that I am both like a gay man and like a straight woman, but I'm not really either one. If I really wanted to transition to become a woman, I would -- but I actually don't feel like it. I don't want boobs and a vagina. I like dressing up and feeling feminine -- but not all the time.

This thread has really taught me alot! I really do feel different than your average gay man.

[Desiree2bababe]

Been all too lonely here.........I miss my men! Forget about the gay guys, they want a man not a woman. You'd have better luck going to a straight bar, especially if it's a "brothers" bar.

[TommyII]

Ok I read it all and it caused some introspection on a new level for me. Wouldn't it be nice to have one person that loved all of the different me's. A guy to hang with (do guy things with), a girl to shop with, share clothes with, and cry with, but always be there for a supportive hug and snuggle. Now I'm not sure anymore if I want a girl or a guy. I just want to be loved and accepted no matter who I decide I am that day.

[CDastoria]

We talked about it, but my goal at the moment is to balance myself emotionally first to make the right decision.
I already stopped the Testosterone replacement therapy and been feeling better

Ahh...so you're leaving the possibility open.


I don't want boobs and a vagina. I like dressing up and feeling feminine -- but not all the time.

See...now when I'm with a guy (or fantasizing myself) I *DO* fantasize about having boobs and a vagina. It's not just about the clothes. Hmmm....should that tell me something?
But I, like you, don't dress up all the time. I'm just a normal gay guy without them. :(

[Barbara Dugan]

Ahh...so you're leaving the possibility open.



See...now when I'm with a guy (or fantasizing myself) I *DO* fantasize about having boobs and a vagina. It's not just about the clothes. Hmmm....should that tell me something?
But I, like you, don't dress up all the time. I'm just a normal gay guy without them. :(

I feel the same, I've always wondered what would be to able to dress up all the time

[CDastoria]

I feel the same, I've always wondered what would be to able to dress up all the time

Yeah but is it about the clothes or about the body?

Like, when you're with men, do you have to have the clothes? or do you just fantasize about having a female body when you're with men?

[Barbara Dugan]

Yeah but is it about the clothes or about the body?

Like, when you're with men, do you have to have the clothes? or do you just fantasize about having a female body when you're with men?

I think is more a emotional level but also have necessary lust elements I think I don't need to have the clothes to have those feelings I fantasize with guys even when not dressed ..there is a guy at work that every time I see him I feel weak on my knees:daydreaming:... I am a little ambigous about having a female body sometimes I feel I want to have it other times I feel that I dont need it to be myself

[Barbara Dugan]

I think is about time to ask this question...Do you believe that the heterosexual crossdreser are more tolerant to gay people than the regular population ?
Have you ever felt some kind of prejudice from other crossdressers for being gay?

[jenni_xx]

I think is about time to ask this question...Do you believe that the heterosexual crossdreser are more tolerant to gay people than the regular population ?
Have you ever felt some kind of prejudice from other crossdressers for being gay?

I don't actually know any crossdressers in "real life", just ones I've interacted with online, but I have to say that I've never had any negative comments directed towards me when I tell them that I'm gay. On the other hand, I do know quite a few gay people, and have heard many negative comments directed towards those that crossdress.

Having said that, I consider myself very fortunate that I'm in a relationship with a man who not only accepts my crossdressing but positively encourages it. He knew right from the start, and I did my best to try and paint it in a positive light, in the sense that it was something in which we could have a lot of fun with (and we do). He's a dominant man, so I think on one level it appeals to this sense of his masculinity.

By the way, we recently got engaged, although no date has yet been set for a wedding (we're looking at dates for next summer). I have to say, I can't wait!!!

[maya1love]

Jenni, congratulations! Where did you meet your fella???

[jenni_xx]

Thank you maya :D We met around 6 months ago now through a mutual friend. A group of us were out in London, and we just hit it off straight away. Spent the whole night chatting (and flirting), swapped phone-numbers and went out on our first date a few days later. And we've never looked back since. It's been a very intense relationship, in a very good way, and I just felt that he was "the one" from very early on in our relationship. Anyway, he proposed to me a couple of weeks ago, and needless to say I immediately accepted. I honestly couldn't be happier :D

[CDastoria]

I don't actually know any crossdressers in "real life", just ones I've interacted with online, but I have to say that I've never had any negative comments directed towards me when I tell them that I'm gay. On the other hand, I do know quite a few gay people, and have heard many negative comments directed towards those that crossdress.

Having said that, I consider myself very fortunate that I'm in a relationship with a man who not only accepts my crossdressing but positively encourages it. He knew right from the start, and I did my best to try and paint it in a positive light, in the sense that it was something in which we could have a lot of fun with (and we do). He's a dominant man, so I think on one level it appeals to this sense of his masculinity.

By the way, we recently got engaged, although no date has yet been set for a wedding (we're looking at dates for next summer). I have to say, I can't wait!!!

That's amazing! May I please ask you a few things?
How did you present it to him? What was his reaction? Are you naturally fem and he naturally masc?

[jenni_xx]

Hi astoria

I told Danny (my hubby-to-be) the first time I met him. We had a long conversation about it, and he was genuinely interested in what I had to say (funnily enough, I did get asked if I wanted to be a woman full-time, although the "are you gay" question didn't have to be asked!!). He wasn't deterred by it at all, and on our first date he brought up the subject again. I told him that it's something that both of us could enjoy, and presented little details that I felt would appeal to him (the feel of satin/silk on skin, how good it feels to be scratched by long nails, those kind of things). And also how we could have fun playing with gender roles. I am quite fem (although not effeminate) in that I've quite a small build, and not at all tall (whereas Danny is 6ft 2), so even in heels I'm still looking up to him. And like I said previously, he is very masculine and dominant, and his sense of being the man is "reaffirmed" (for want of a better word) when I'm dressed. He plays up to it, and I have to say, I love that. I think (actually, I know) that he does to. We have a lot of fun with it, and although I wouldn't necessarily say it's a central component to our relationship, it's certainly a very active part of it.

[Barbara Dugan]

I don't actually know any crossdressers in "real life", just ones I've interacted with online, but I have to say that I've never had any negative comments directed towards me when I tell them that I'm gay. On the other hand, I do know quite a few gay people, and have heard many negative comments directed towards those that crossdress.

Having said that, I consider myself very fortunate that I'm in a relationship with a man who not only accepts my crossdressing but positively encourages it. He knew right from the start, and I did my best to try and paint it in a positive light, in the sense that it was something in which we could have a lot of fun with (and we do). He's a dominant man, so I think on one level it appeals to this sense of his masculinity.

By the way, we recently got engaged, although no date has yet been set for a wedding (we're looking at dates for next summer). I have to say, I can't wait!!!

Congratulations Jenni those are great news:)

[sed49]

Jenni, I'm so happy for you. I guess dreams do come true after all! I love to have the same thing happen to me. Do you think that eventually, you'd like to transition?

[maya1love]

Jenni -- I think you have the admiration of the entire room! Sounds exactly what I'm looking for too! Can I ask -- how old are you guys? And another question -- for the wedding, are you going to be wearing something feminine, or have the two of you decided to be strictly two men at the ceremony? :)

[jenni_xx]

Thank you Barbara :)

And thank you too sed. Honestly, I couldn't say whether I'd like to transition, but it is something that I have thought about on numerous occassions, although something has always held me back in making a very real step forward in this respect. I do like the fact that I am male, but, like all of us, I also love the fact that I am transgendered, so the thought of actually becoming a woman full time has often felt very intriguing to me. I'm in my 30s now, and my need to explore my feminine side is getting stronger and much more frequent, and my confidence in this regard is growing very rapidly. I do think Danny has a lot to do with that though, as he is so very supporting and encouraging of it, and when you have someone in your life who is so understanding and accepting, it makes me feel even more proud and happy about the whole thing and the way I am. I guess, to put it succinctly, I honestly couldn't say one way or the other whether I would eventually transition. At the moment though, I'm very happy with the way I am, so it isn't something that, should it actually happen, would happen soon. And Danny's feelings are very very important to me, as I love him so very much. We haven't discussed this at all apart from when he initially asked me if I wanted to become a woman (to which my reply was a simple "no" interestingly enough), but if I did broach the subject with him, then it would only be taken further if I had his full support. The thought of losing him because I wanted to be a woman full-time is simply too unbearable for me to think about.

[jenni_xx]

Aww, thank you maya, that such a sweet thing to say and so very nice to hear. I've just turned 39, and Danny is 42. I'm totally undecided about what to wear at the wedding, but I do think it will end up being "two men". The reason, and this may sound silly, is that while we are both out to all our friends as being gay, I'm not out to all of them as being transgendered. But then, I don't think they'd really mind if I wore a wedding dress if truth be told.

I have actually been looking at quite a few dresses online, and some are just too gorgeous that they make me want to melt!! The temptation to wear a dress might just prove too strong to deny myself. As long as that's ok with Danny of course!

[Christa]

That's very cool, Jenni! Thanks for sharing your story.

If I had it to do all over again, I'd have told my husband when we first met too. It would have been much easier than having to come out to him about my CD-ing years later.

But finally, he's suggested that I bring my clothes out of hiding and make Christa more a part of our everyday lives. Very exciting. I'll take it slowly and let you all know how it goes.

Thanks again for this great thread Maya!

xoxo

Christa

[CDastoria]

Hi astoria

I told Danny (my hubby-to-be) the first time I met him. We had a long conversation about it, and he was genuinely interested in what I had to say (funnily enough, I did get asked if I wanted to be a woman full-time, although the "are you gay" question didn't have to be asked!!). He wasn't deterred by it at all, and on our first date he brought up the subject again. I told him that it's something that both of us could enjoy, and presented little details that I felt would appeal to him (the feel of satin/silk on skin, how good it feels to be scratched by long nails, those kind of things). And also how we could have fun playing with gender roles. I am quite fem (although not effeminate) in that I've quite a small build, and not at all tall (whereas Danny is 6ft 2), so even in heels I'm still looking up to him. And like I said previously, he is very masculine and dominant, and his sense of being the man is "reaffirmed" (for want of a better word) when I'm dressed. He plays up to it, and I have to say, I love that. I think (actually, I know) that he does to. We have a lot of fun with it, and although I wouldn't necessarily say it's a central component to our relationship, it's certainly a very active part of it.

Jenni...thanks so much for the story! I have a few more questions:
How did it come up during that first conversation? Was there anything that might have lead into your revelation?
Before him, had you dated any men who were accepting?
How often do you dress in your relationship? every day? What was his reaction the first time he saw you dressed?

Personally, I've tried dating men or looking for men who were "total tops" and liked to be the more masculine one in the relationship. Some have said they'd be ok with panties but nothing more. It still seems very difficult to find a man who would be accepting of the "something more."

[jenni_xx]

Astoria, during our very first conversation, we talked for hours about anything and everything, and we just seemed to connect on so many levels that we both felt so at ease with eachother, having similar views, outlooks, opinions. Because I felt so comfortable, it just felt right (and very easy) to tell him about my feminine side. I wouldn't necessarily say there was one specific thing that "enabled" me to open up to him, in the sense that there was something that lead into it. We were both very interested in finding out more about eachother, and I included my dressing when I was describing myself and the things I liked. His reaction wasn't even one initially of shock, but of genuine intrigue, and he made me feel very comfortable in answering the questions that he asked as a result.

I hadn't told any man I'd previously dated about my dressing, so I couldn't say whether they'd have been accepting or not. With previous boyfriends (there weren't too many to be honest, as I was in the closet and used to date girls when I was younger), I never felt comfortable in telling them. Funnily enough, when I dated girls, I told all of them (some right from the start, others found out, others I told further into the relationship), with some accepting and some not. Perhaps with my first couple of boyfriends (relationships that didn't actually last a great deal of time anyway), the excitement of being with a man and accepting and exploring my sexuality was enough for me to even contemplate wanting to bring my feminine side into the relationship. With Danny though, it's definitely different. Like I say, I was open (and felt able and totally confident to be open) right from the start. Of course, had he not been accepting, then our relationship most probably wouldn't have got a chance to develop, but I think because we got on so well and connected straight away, he was able to see it as a part of who I am - one of the things he's since said to me is that he's glad that I felt he was a person I could be totally honest with, as honesty is something that he values very highly.

Currently, we're living a couple of hours away from each other, so we only get to spend weekends together (we're still undecided as to who will move in with whom, or whether we'll get a new place together (and rent out our apartments) closer to our wedding). I have on occassion spent the entire weekend dressed in his company, other times not dressed at all. The first time he saw me dressed, his reaction was one of total positivity, and it wasn't long before some "fun" was had! That was a mind-blowing experience for me, as I'm sure you can imagine.

[maya1love]

Hi all -- I think that Jenni's story really illustrates to me that there are some masculine (if you like that), intelligent gay men out there who will not only tolerate our cding, but accept it as well. I too, have, in the past, met gay men who been very accepting of my cding. (Hell, two of my previous boyfriends even bought me lingerie on special occasions!) I know that they are few and far between, but we only need one in order to make us happy and fulfilled!

I find that the problem with engaging a "tranny admirer" man, or leading in a personal ad with the fact that you crossdress is that crossdressing becomes the focus of the relationship. If I'm going to build a relationship with a man, we have to have more in common with each other than the fact that we both like that I crossdress. And...more importantly, these men usually don't want to be open about being in a loving relationship with another man. (I've reconciled the fact that I won't transition to being a woman) However, I have had some lovely dates with tranny admirer men, but we both know that it's not going to go anywhere.

[CDastoria]

Jenni...what a dream! I'm ridiculously envious, to say the least. I guess it just seems impossible for me (who looks relatively average and masculine) to find a guy who is going to assume that I am the more sub/fem one. I also feel like it is false advertising because a guy would assume he's going to get one thing when, in reality, he's getting something quite different.
I have been told that all the guys that go to trans clubs are very much living a straight lifestyle and aren't looking to date someone part time.
Perhaps I should go to gay clubs dressed up and see what I attract? :( I dunno. Wish I had some of you girls around here to hang out with.

[Barbara Dugan]

Hi all -- I think that Jenni's story really illustrates to me that there are some masculine (if you like that), intelligent gay men out there who will not only tolerate our cding, but accept it as well. I too, have, in the past, met gay men who been very accepting of my cding. (Hell, two of my previous boyfriends even bought me lingerie on special occasions!) I know that they are few and far between, but we only need one in order to make us happy and fulfilled!

I find that the problem with engaging a "tranny admirer" man, or leading in a personal ad with the fact that you crossdress is that crossdressing becomes the focus of the relationship. If I'm going to build a relationship with a man, we have to have more in common with each other than the fact that we both like that I crossdress. And...more importantly, these men usually don't want to be open about being in a loving relationship with another man. (I've reconciled the fact that I won't transition to being a woman) However, I have had some lovely dates with tranny admirer men, but we both know that it's not going to go anywhere.

I totally agree with Maya Jenny's relationship is the ideal one not only for us but to any straight crossdresser too , a supportive partner is really valuable.
My relationships have been the kind Maya describe dates that I know from the beginning are going nowhere I have to admit that sometimes I pursued Married guys trying to avoid a more sentimental attachment but a letter from a wife really changed my mind..now my number one rule is no married guys at all. One of the things I really admire Jenny is the fact that there is no age difference on her relationship, lately I am only getting responses from guys either too young or quiet older than me and I really feel more comfortable with guys around my age.

[CDastoria]

I totally agree with Maya Jenny's relationship is the ideal one not only for us but to any straight crossdresser too , a supportive partner is really valuable.
My relationships have been the kind Maya describe dates that I know from the beginning are going nowhere I have to admit that sometimes I pursued Married guys trying to avoid a more sentimental attachment but a letter from a wife really changed my mind..now my number one rule is no married guys at all. One of the things I really admire Jenny is the fact that there is no age difference on her relationship, lately I am only getting responses from guys either too young or quiet older than me and I really feel more comfortable with guys around my age.

Do you mind if i ask what the wife said in her letter?

[Barbara Dugan]

She wrote that wasn't blaming anything on me and only wanted to make sure about her husband infidelity...I had to tell her the truth and sincerely apologized to her , I felt really bad and guilty for some time, and if somebody read this please try not to judge me I've learned from my mistakes

[CDastoria]

She wrote that wasn't blaming anything on me and only wanted to make sure about her husband infidelity...I had to tell her the truth and sincerely apologized to her , I felt really bad and guilty for some time, and if somebody read this please try not to judge me I've learned from my mistakes

Did she know you were trans? or did you think you were a real woman? or a man?

[Barbara Dugan]

She knew I wasn't a a real woman

[maya1love]

Hey everyone:

In reading the wonderful posts on this thread, I got the sense more and more that many of us are searching for a relationship with that one special guy. Aside from Jenni and Christa, we are all single. I, for one, have had quite a few dates with men (in boy mode) over the years, but nothing's really materialized. I'm currently reading this wonderful book called "Marry Him" by Lori Gottlieb, which is aimed at strong, independent, go getter single women who have this image of the "perfect man" -- and that man never shows up. I've recently come to see myself as someone who "dismisses" guys pretty easily, probably because I feel that they wouldn't understand my feminine side, or they wouldn't make me feel feminine, or they're not tall enough, or they're not smart enough...all of the "enoughs". As I approach 40, with not one relationship under my belt, I feel like I need to start looking carefully at the guys I'm throwing away. I wonder how many of you girls feel the same way? Have you been dating men for a long time? Are your standards TOO high? Do you feel that your cynicism about finding a man makes it difficult to let a good man in?

[Barbara Dugan]

Hey everyone:

In reading the wonderful posts on this thread, I got the sense more and more that many of us are searching for a relationship with that one special guy. Aside from Jenni and Christa, we are all single. I, for one, have had quite a few dates with men (in boy mode) over the years, but nothing's really materialized. I'm currently reading this wonderful book called "Marry Him" by Lori Gottlieb, which is aimed at strong, independent, go getter single women who have this image of the "perfect man" -- and that man never shows up. I've recently come to see myself as someone who "dismisses" guys pretty easily, probably because I feel that they wouldn't understand my feminine side, or they wouldn't make me feel feminine, or they're not tall enough, or they're not smart enough...all of the "enoughs". As I approach 40, with not one relationship under my belt, I feel like I need to start looking carefully at the guys I'm throwing away. I wonder how many of you girls feel the same way? Have you been dating men for a long time? Are your standards TOO high? Do you feel that your cynicism about finding a man makes it difficult to let a good man in?

I don't think my standards are too high but I still need the guy to be attractive to me. One thing I've been considering is to give a try to guys that are looking for a more versatile relationship but still want me feminine:)

[maya1love]

Hey everyone -- thought I'd give this thread a bump for the benefit of us gay cds...anyone have anything else to say?

I had another question for all of you -- when you see yourself all dressed up, and if you get excited by yourself, do you feel confused by the fact that you are getting excited by a feminine image? Does it make you question whether you might like women?

[MJ]

it would be so great to have a Guy to cuddle up too on these cold winter nights

[Janice Lester]

Maya,

Fantastic question.

I'm not exactly the audience you are speaking to, but probably close enough. Getting dressed en femme, is a turn on in itself the feeling of satin on my skin is always wonderful and seeing a pleasing reflection is as well. But its not confusing, when dressed I know what it is that I want and its not what I'm seeing in the mirror.

[Barbara Dugan]

Very interesting question Maya...I've had those brief moments before and indeed can be very confusing, you ask yourself Am I dressing because I love women or I dress because I feel like one? I even tried to remember and go way back and time if I ever had a crush or a feeling about any woman in particular and my answer is always no I felt admiration on some but never lust or desire.

[Janice Lester]

Barbara,

I find your answer surprising because you don't define yourself as transgendered ie: you are a gay male. Its one of those things that make humanity so infinitely fascinating. You emulate females but have no desire for them. My experience is the opposite, but it leads me to roughly the same place which is I really like men but why?. Have I been hiding myself from myself, am I gay and not bi? No I don't expect you to answer that particular question.

[Christa]

Good question Maya (and thanks for the bump)! I do get turned on when I dress... not because I'm attracted to women, but because I want to be attractive to men.

As a young gay boy, crossdressing was a way to reconcile my attraction to men. I figured if I looked like a girl, that would take the gay stigma out of any relationship I might have. I still fantasize about what it might feel like to live full time as a girl, but alas... I don't think that's in the cards for me. I'm generally happy being male and enjoy the thrill of occasionally presenting as female.

I'm grateful for this forum and smart, kind people like all of you on this Thanksgiving holiday!

xoxo

Christa

[My Lady Marsea]

Hey all, like toss some of those leftover guys my way LOL. I've had only one little experience or wutever and nothing came of it. Around here it's like as hard to stir up a guy who is into me as it is to find another TG/TS who's outta the closet LOL.

[Sherry-Stephanie]

I'm bi...and finding somethning that's more than a simple romp in the hay is like looing for that perverble "needle in a haystack" I guess us girls who would like to have a steay male friend or are looking for a male friend to be a "best bud" or "friend with benefits" face the same challenges and issues that straight geneder females face in finding a straight male friend...

That's why I'm looking more towards finding a bi or gay female friend than I am with a straight male...since I share the same opinion as most females share..."men are such dogs/pigs/or other term"...they seem to only want to get it up, get it in get it off and get it out, and then zip it up and leave...

So really, what's a girl to do now????

Stephanie

[maya1love]

Personally, I can admit that there was a period of time where I really questioned my sexuality and my attraction towards men because I did get turned on by the image of seeing myself dressed...seeing nylon clad legs, cleavage, etc. I think that athough my attraction for men is primary, I would say that I feel attracted to women's bodies and images from time to time. If I see a woman walking down the street in a short skirt, I want to look. I don't feel a desire to "jump her bones", but it's a pleasing image to see. But seeing a woman totally naked without the clothes that I love is not exciting in the least. So, I guess I'm attracted to the clothes! Guess I answered my own question! ha ha..

[Barbara Dugan]

Personally, I can admit that there was a period of time where I really questioned my sexuality and my attraction towards men because I did get turned on by the image of seeing myself dressed...seeing nylon clad legs, cleavage, etc. I think that athough my attraction for men is primary, I would say that I feel attracted to women's bodies and images from time to time. If I see a woman walking down the street in a short skirt, I want to look. I don't feel a desire to "jump her bones", but it's a pleasing image to see. But seeing a woman totally naked without the clothes that I love is not exciting in the least. So, I guess I'm attracted to the clothes! Guess I answered my own question! ha ha..

I agree on the clothes too Maya, especially when is a girl within my ethnicity and body type and I have to admit there is a little bit of jealousy when I see one likethat naked but never lust or desire. Now I would comment my attraction to masculinity....I am atracted only to very masculine type kind of guys not pretty guys just raw masculine guys and always question myself why?

[MichelleOBrien]

Okay, at first, I was gonna go on a several hour rant, thereby ripping you a new rear end, for equating all crossdressers to gay.

Then I read your post

Being bi myself, I've encountered similar problems finding a boyfriend. I've done the gay bar scene, but typically I either get the creepy guys (I'm 26, they're like 80...) or I just get stared at like an alien. Craigslist revealed nothing for me. Neither did Alt.com, bisexual.com, or any other dating site. As a bottom, I look for the masculine guys. Or at least the non-flamers. Of course, none of them are interested in me, and I end up getting a lesbian (who doesn't want anything to do with a penis) hitting on me until she realizes I'm a guy, then we just swap makeup/clothing tips.

As for your latest question, I'd have to say that being a guy with another guy does very little for me. I want to be the woman. I want to be treated as a woman. Then again, I'm also not just a crossdresser, but also transgendered.

But I gotta say something to munshine nightwood. Hun, trust me. take your time and make sure it's a decision you really can spend the rest of your life with. Not saying it isn't for you, but with just coming out of the closet as it were, I'd definitely start with the counseling first. If nothing else, it can help you figure out *just* how far down that road you wanna go.

[SaraRider]

I wish so bad that I could find a straight looking man who would want to be in a long term relationship but it is so hard to find a man like that especially because I live in a small town in idaho. who do i find a man when I live in a state where it is super hard to find a gay or bi man in the whole state. It gets very depressing.

[MasterD]

*subscribing to thread*

A rather interesting discussion.

[CDastoria]

Any updates from anyone here with regards to dating? I'm thinking of starting it up again in the new year...and don't know where to even begin. :(

[joannemarie barker]

No update from me but I have my eye on a particular guy :)

[Soriya]

Hey everyone -- thought I'd give this thread a bump for the benefit of us gay cds...anyone have anything else to say?

I had another question for all of you -- when you see yourself all dressed up, and if you get excited by yourself, do you feel confused by the fact that you are getting excited by a feminine image? Does it make you question whether you might like women?

Maya, great thread!!

I don't have much to add from a 'gay' (hate labels) perspective because I am a straight man.

To answer your question that I quoted. Yes, when I change into Soriya, it does turn me on. For one, I can't believe it is me. I am not passable but when transformed, I do not see my male self at all. Even the few people I know personally that I have showed pictures to can't believe it is me as well. Most will say I look passable from what my face looks like but a muscular frame gives it away LOL. My sexual feelings also seem to change when dressed as well and they shift to the thought of having sex with a man. This had always been confusing to me because I do not have any attraction whatsoever to the male image, none, zero, like -100 attraction LOL. Through my life I have asked myself hundreds of times if I was gay to 'justify' why I dress but, it's just not there but it still never explained why the feelings came about when dressed. I know look at it since I am presenting as a woman, feeling like a woman, and thinking like a woman, my mind shifts into a female though process, even sexually. Quite facininating actually. :)

Overall, being a straight guy I am physically attracted to the female 'image'. The more I learn about myself with this it is becoming apparent that physically, it doesn't seem to matter what plumbing is involved, if the person is physically attractive 'woman', GG, TS, etc. etc. I could see myself open to the possibility to a relationship. For me though, it is way past the physical image. I for one do not relate to men, even as a man. I never have. I also find myself unable to relate to most women as well, just not able to relate to people in general. I am one who wants an intimate connection with my partner, intimate in all ways, communication, trust, honesty, that kind of intimacy. Being a good looking guy, I haven't been with anyone for almost 2 years now because if i don't feel some type of connection, there is no chance. For me, it is about the person. Find me an attractive woman or TS, heck, even a 'gay' man who primarily presents as an attractive woman, I am inclined to be open to the possibility if there is chemistry.

I guess taking out the physical appearance, that makes me, what is it, Pansexual?

Oh yea, about shaving arms and such, I think it was Barbara that said her boss mentioned it.......who cares! I shave everything and have for years now and I didn't start because of dressing, in fact, I wasn't even dressing at the time when I started. I entered a fitness contest and shaved it all for my after picture. I liked it better and have kept it off ever since. Bottom line, it's what I like. I have a friend at work that likes to shave his arms because he has tattoos. He told me one he didn't do it anymore because he got tired of people saying things to him. I simply asked him "who are you living your life for, you or them?" He has shaved them ever since :)

[TracyBoy]

No update from me but I have my eye on a particular guy :)
Hey! I'm jealous! Just kidding. I hope you and him connect. Good luck to you Dear!

[maya1love]

Hi everyone -- nice to see that this thread is still kicking around!

I'm actually chatting with a guy these days (who I met through craigslist) and I'm hoping that we will go out soon.

I am, however, even more excited to be going out dressed to a totally straight New years Eve ball tonight fully dressed. Will keep all of you posted!

Maya
xoxo

[Christa]

Tonight's party sounds like a dream come true! Have a fantastic time and be sure to post a pic or two. I'm sure the guys will be all over you when the ball drops!

XOXO

Christa

[joannemarie barker]

Wow you will be fighting the guys off :) lucky you :)

[Coyote]

I think I might have a leg up somewhat since I have not been in a relationship for a while since my work life is pretty intense and I do weird hours and can be across the country for days, makes going out / dating rough. Since I am a gay male, completely bottom CD that has yet to go out in public with it yet I suppose being truthful and open with it from the start when i start looking again is the best way to go with it from what I can tell from this great discussion. It is also a bit of a downer knowing from it a well tho that finding someone whom is interested is an uphill battle, but nothing worth having in life is easy. 8-)

[maya1love]

Hi gang. Had a great time at the New Years' Eve bash, as I mentioned in my previous post above! I don't want this thread to get diverted to talking about my New Years' adventure, so please check out my flickr page for the pics!

Maya
xoxo

[joannemarie barker]

Oh wow Maya you look gorgeous and looks like a lot of fun :) who wouldn't want you on their arm :)

[Ms Jennifer]

Great thread! As you say, most gay guys aren't looking for guys who look and act like girls, but there are a lot of bi-curious guys out there, I think many of them secretly wish they could dress and pass as chicks too. Anyhoo I've had some luck with Craigslist, you're right that like 80% of the hits you get are from guys who are only looking for sex but if you're patient and careful you can weed out the sickos and I've met some wonderful guys that way. Like you said, it's smart to say upfront that you're looking to meet a guy who will take you to nice places, and always insist on a picture from the neck up! I recently put a personal on Craigslist challenging guys to beat a TGirl at tennis, with a picture of me in my tennis dress, met a really cool guy who's become my tennis partner and bed buddy too :)
I like the bed buddy part. I am glad to see you had good luck online.Most of the guys I got replys from wanted just one thing. I want that too but I need the relationship and togetherness also.

[Christa]

Maya is my heroine! I loved the photo story of your New Year's Eve adventure. You give us all hope and remind us that confidence, joy and good friends are the keys to happiness.

Love you, girl.

Thanks for sharing,

Christa

[maya1love]

Thanks Christa! Very sweet! (blush)

[Coyote]

Not wanting to derail the OP, but since there is no specific gay CD forum, I figured asking in a thread with those most probable to embrace the question would be the best place for it.

Feel free to have it nuked if needed. Last thing I want to do is get others mad at me.

Anyway, Im curious on the state of the gay CD's here and those specifically that have a current partner.

How do they look at your crossdressing, and do they embrace it, or just let you do it as your own thing, or do you have to hide it from them?

I would almost guess the span would be the same as most hetero CD's, but I could be mistaken.

[Christa]

Hi Coyote,

I'm a gay CD and I've been with my guy for nearly 20 years now (time flies!). I only came out to him about my crossdressing about 5 years ago. It took me that long to get comfortable enough to share that... somehow it was even more difficult to come out as a CD than as gay. Go figure.

He wasn't terribly surprised, but also said he didn't really ever want to see me dressed. Since then, he's softened up a bit. He spontaneously told me I shouldn't hide my clothes anymore and that he could see how it might be sexy to dress for bed sometimes.

Given my long history of guilt with CDing, I still haven't dressed in front of him. But I'm starting to get the sense that I could. And I've suggested that we might go to a fetish ball together sometime with me dressed as Christa.

If I had the whole relationship to do over again, I would have been out as a CD right from the start. So that's the advice that I give to single CDers.

Tell us more about your situation. Are you in a relationship?

xoxo

Christa

[Coyote]

Hi Coyote,

I'm a gay CD and I've been with my guy for nearly 20 years now (time flies!). I only came out to him about my crossdressing about 5 years ago. It took me that long to get comfortable enough to share that... somehow it was even more difficult to come out as a CD than as gay. Go figure.

He wasn't terribly surprised, but also said he didn't really ever want to see me dressed. Since then, he's softened up a bit. He spontaneously told me I shouldn't hide my clothes anymore and that he could see how it might be sexy to dress for bed sometimes.

Given my long history of guilt with CDing, I still haven't dressed in front of him. But I'm starting to get the sense that I could. And I've suggested that we might go to a fetish ball together sometime with me dressed as Christa.

If I had the whole relationship to do over again, I would have been out as a CD right from the start. So that's the advice that I give to single CDers.

Tell us more about your situation. Are you in a relationship?

xoxo

Christa

Well, for the most part, currently single. A male friend thats all the way in the other Washington that I spend time with when I can and travel gets me out that way, but its in no way a relationship, just friends with privledges so to speak.

He does not care for cross dressers in that sense of a relationship so its never been brought up as there is no need since were not anything official. Likes seeing the drag shows tho 8-P Besides, hes like 21/22 to my 40, and it would never work out anyway. For a funny aside, I happened to be there visiting around halloween one year, and we went to a local gay bar and he took me collared and leashed. They got such a kick out of this scrawny young dom parading me around it was a hit - and I got free drinks from the barstaff all night 8-)

My career kept me from really getting out in the social scene at all for the last 9 years, and since I was terminated from that job this past friday, I have a bit of time to try to re evaluate and re invent myself a bit. While im not going to suddenly go enfemme and prance out the door, im not going to hold it back like i used to, and take the advice that them knowing upfront is the best policy.

Appreciate the feedback Christa

[DaphneGrey]

Hey all...glad that this thread is continuing!

I just want to clarify something that I see repeated quite a bit in threads on this forum. Often times, the issues around being a gay male crossdresser are confused with the issue of "whether I am gay because I fantasize about being with a man while dressed". There are tons of threads dealing with the latter on this forum. My view is that having fantasies about being with a man while dressed is not the same thing as calling yourself a "gay male crossdresser". For me, a gay male crossdresser is simply a male crossdresser who envisions being with a man as a primary life partner, who falls in love with a man, and is primarily attracted to men, and who can envision living day-to-day with a man in a conjugal relationship, regardless of whether he is dressed in women's clothes or not. To help those questioning themselves, I would probably ask the question, "Are you primarily attracted to men regardless of what you are wearing?" If so, you're mostly likely "gay". If you are only attracted to men when you are dressed as a woman, and you also find yourself attracted to women, then I don't think that you are gay -- perhaps, you are bisexual. (Hope you won't all clobber me for saying that!) I remember when I was questioning my sexuality, I seemed to be focused on who I fantasize about being with in bed. A dear friend clarified that "sexual orientation" was much deeper than sex -- it was about who we fall in love with and who we enjoy romance with.

So, as someone who still envisions being with a man even when I'm not dressed as a girl (although I would like to be seen as the fem in the relationship), I've come to the conclusion that I really should stick to the gay male community in terms of looking for an ideal mate. The reason that I feel this way is because most trans-admirers that I have met seem to have a great deal of difficulty being with me when I am not in girl mode. Being in a relationship with me involves being with my male self 90% of the time, and my female self 10% of the time. And, luckily there are some gay men out there who have been fine with my dressing and treating me like the girl in the relationship, so I feel like that has to be the closest fit at this point...:)

Very insightful! I really enjoyed reading it and it helped me quite a bit.

[CDastoria]

well, we shall see what happens. I just made my first appointment with a gender therapist. I see him on friday. hopefully he'll help me figure out who and what i am. Perhaps I'm not a gay crossdresser but a straight woman?

[CDastoria]

So...umm...this thread has kinda died. Have any other gay crossdressers here ever seen a gender therapist? Or ended up transitioning?

[Barbara Dugan]

So...umm...this thread has kinda died. Have any other gay crossdressers here ever seen a gender therapist? Or ended up transitioning?

I still feel more gay than ever, I am currently seeing a therapist not sure about transitioning but the idea everyday doesn't feel that much out of place:)

[joannemarie barker]

I still feel more gay than ever, I am currently seeing a therapist not sure about transitioning but the idea everyday doesn't feel that much out of place:)

lol gayer than ever,I love that statement :) I've no plans to transition but I'm definitely gayer than ever.ggs used to do it for me and now there's nothing really there.it's guys I'm always daydreaming about

[Deanna]

Where have all you girls been? I just found this thread, read all the way through it and now you've forced me to add my :2c:. It wasn't until the internet that I realized that I wasn't a freak of nature. I have since had many encounters with other people while dressed and I realized that Deanna is just my other half that I've been hiding for all these years. We are extremely comfortable with each other except when I don't let her out to play for long periods. Then she gets really bitchy!! I am just as comfortable with a totally gay guy as I can be with women. I just wish that people weren't so judgmental and that everyone accepted everyone else for who and what they are.

[gracee]

To maya1love: Great pics, beautiful looks. "He proceeded to take my hand and asked me whether I was a good dancer." Because you like guys, that must have been a dynamite, sexy moment for you as a girl, one you'll treasure forever. We're all so glad you had it.

[ReineD]

Wow, I hadn't seen this thread before now.

What's amazing is, the first thing wives ask of their hetero husbands when they find out about the CDing is, "Are you gay?", assuming that all gay men *must* be OK with CDers. But, from what I read in this thread, that's not the case. It's just as difficult for a gay CD to find long-term romance as it is for a hetero CD. :sad:

[maya1love]

Reine, yes, it's tough, but I continue to have hope for all of us. Girls, try and stay true to your self and your prince will come. (At least that's what I'm told!!!)

[cordgrass]

I've got to ask--wouldn't it be possible to be with another CD and take turns dressing? Or doesn't it work like that?

[JessicaDC]

Hi everyone. Haven't been around for a while and glad to see this thread.

For me it's such a split personality situation. When I"m en femme I'm totally a girl. I'm not interested in girls or cds. I totally fantasize about being a girl and being with guys. But when I'm not dressed I'm totally a guy. I love girls and want to be with just girls.

I wish there were more of an outlet for CDs who wants to be with guys. There aren't that many clubs/bars in the DC area that designed for CDs...

Also in this day and age I wish I could find a guy who wouldn't mind a "relationship" where we can just get together once in a while and play....

[Barbara Dugan]

I've got to ask--wouldn't it be possible to be with another CD and take turns dressing? Or doesn't it work like that?

Sometimes I think about that...sounds like the ideal relationship and I believe it may work for some but my personal preference is masculine stocky guys that don't crossdress. Girls and other crossdresers are a major turn off for me sometimes I wish my sexuality to be more fluid but is just the way I am.

[MJ]

not a happy camper right now...

[tammy tee]

Am I gay? After living as a straight CD for 40 years I have in the last three years developed an apatite for really good looking, strong men. My wife believes I must be and although we enjoy straight sex she will take the lead and let me dress and enjoy a fantastic piece of Michael Lucas' anatomy. I must say I love being Tammy and the thought of dating men.

[cdona20]

Though I am not attracted to Men's bodies, I do like their take charge, macho personalities and sometimes flirt and talk dirty with them. Last guy I did this to had identified as straight his whole life but found himself attracted to me when I showed him pictures. I started calling him my boyfriend. Then one day, I caught him reffering to me as "That random f***ot who hits on me" in an effort to look straight infront of his friends. Broke off all contact right then and there.

[maya1love]

Sometimes I think about that...sounds like the ideal relationship and I believe it may work for some but my personal preference is masculine stocky guys that don't crossdress. Girls and other crossdresers are a major turn off for me sometimes I wish my sexuality to be more fluid but is just the way I am.

I'm with you! I need to be the only one who wears the dresses in the relationship! I know -- not very tolerant, but that's where I'm at.

[Kasuji]

I dated a few guys and none had any problem with me crossdressing. I think gays and bis are generally more accepting towards this kind of thing

In the end they´re just different clothes and i am i, no matter what i wear ^^

[helenejo]

For me it's such a split personality situation. When I"m en femme I'm totally a girl. I'm not interested in girls or cds. I totally fantasize about being a girl and being with guys. But when I'm not dressed I'm totally a guy. I love girls and want to be with just girls.



Thats how I feel too, although I got in a situation with a close (& married) male friend who I have always suspected maybe is bi where we ended up in a passionate clinch. Ive seen him since and its as if nothing has happened...but next time I'd like to meet him when dressed and take things a step further.

It would be ironic if he is a CD as well and is thinking exactly the same as me!

[tglvr4u]

barbara, if i was anywhere close to you, I'd love to date you

[Tracii G]

The last guy I had a relationship with was just OK with my femme side at first then he tended to resent the fact I felt more female than male.
He complained I wasn't gay acting enough for him.
He was the type to flaunt his gay-ness I'm just the opposite.
Didn't work out so I haven't dated any guys for a few years only bi females.

[Ms Jennifer]

Still looking for Mr.Right.

[Deanna]

I've got to ask--wouldn't it be possible to be with another CD and take turns dressing? Or doesn't it work like that?

It just opens up more scenarios; girl-girl, guy-girl, guy-guy. Personally, I've always felt more like a girl who wants to satisy a man but ANYTHING goes when I'm dressed.

[joannemarie barker]

that would work for me :) I
like big strong men but a cd would be interesting :)

[Barbara Dugan]

I am kind of struggling at the moment, sometimes I think that crossdressing hold me back while pursuing a relationship ,I can be just a normal gay guy, I am not that bad looking as a guy I get lovesick when I see couples and I wish it was me . I think I would be more simple go that route .. ...but I feel just right being enfeme that I really I am confused

[CDastoria]

So I wonder....how many gay cd/tv's transition? I wonder if the % is more than straight ones usually?

[StarrOfDelite]

So I wonder....how many gay cd/tv's transition? I wonder if the % is more than straight ones usually?

I would guess the percentages are remarkably similar. The dab of stuff I've read leads me to think that sexual orientation has little to do with the desire to transition. The feeling of being a woman trapped in a man's body, which seems to be he quintessential element, is a psychological not a physical thing.

[PattiMichaels]

I count myself lucky that there are good looking guys out there that really appreciate Patti and what lengths I go to in order to pull off the total illusion. I'm also lucky that if I feel like being a smooth, slender, feminine guy that there are guys out there who like guys like me.

[Phoebe P.]

I would love to meet a guy. My desire is not to transition though. I guess I'm okay with the gay bar scene.

[maya1love]

I actually think that there are more gay transvestites/crossdressers who actually transition to become women in the East (ie. Asia). I think that this is probably changing as Asian gay tv/cds realize that there is another choice. When I was in Thailand accompanying my friend to get a sex change, I noticed that some of the Asian gurls there felt more like tvs/cds, but they were so cute and passable and liked men, that it seemed like a good fit for them to become women.

[joannemarie barker]

I actually think that there are more gay transvestites/crossdressers who actually transition to become women in the East (ie. Asia). I think that this is probably changing as Asian gay tv/cds realize that there is another choice. When I was in Thailand accompanying my friend to get a sex change, I noticed that some of the Asian gurls there felt more like tvs/cds, but they were so cute and passable and liked men, that it seemed like a good fit for them to become women.


I can understand that.I've often wondered why I was born male when I love to be a girl and I love men.I still know I'm cd and not ts but I can't help thinking it would be more fitting for me to be a woman

[Tia808]

I actually think that there are more gay transvestites/crossdressers who actually transition to become women in the East (ie. Asia). I think that this is probably changing as Asian gay tv/cds realize that there is another choice. When I was in Thailand accompanying my friend to get a sex change, I noticed that some of the Asian gurls there felt more like tvs/cds, but they were so cute and passable and liked men, that it seemed like a good fit for them to become women.

That's a very interesting observation, maybe there will in fact be less transitioning in Asia as their societies become more accepting of "regular" gays. It's hard to say how many of them are "true" TSs as opposed to folks thinking that it's the convenient and logical choice (though based on what I've seen, the great majority of them take to it very, very well in either event!).

I don't think there is a strong Muslim influence in Thailand, but I wonder if Islam plays a role in some of the other SE Asia countries. I've read that in certain countries such as Iran, gays are pushed into SRS because then it's not considered quite as deviant in their eyes as a man liking men. That is of course wrong and contrary to everything we know about the sexuality/gender distinction, but still: at least it's a recognition of TSs as being something other than men, which isn't always the case here or in many Asian and European countries.

(By the way, Maya, you are absolutely stunning!)

[Barbara Dugan]

, I noticed that some of the Asian gurls there felt more like tvs/cds, but they were so cute and passable and liked men, that it seemed like a good fit for them to become women.

That is a very good point...I've noticed that behavior to a less extent on my Hispanic culture..is something that always found interesting how is diferent from Anglo gay culture, I feel crossdressing and transgender is a more accepted behavior among the gay community

[maya1love]

Hi all. It's been some time since I have added anything to this posting.

I actually wanted to talk about the patterns that I am noticing in my dating life these days. As I have said before, I consider myself to be a gay male crossdresser. I've never been with a woman and date men exclusively dressed as a boy or girl. I realize that I am "just" a crossdresser, in that I enjoy dressing up and feeling feminine, but I have no plans to transition. I therefore feel that my best partner would be a man who would be attracted to me as a male 90% of the time and as a woman 10% of the time (because that's how much time I spend in each gender). I also would like to be considered the more feminine partner in the relationship regardless of how I'm dressed. So, I really do feel that dating a "gay" man -- a man who primarily likes other men is my best bet. I get ALOT of online attention from "straight" or "bi" guys as Maya, but the problem is that they'll likely never commit to a fully functional relationship with me because they don't want to see me dressed as a man or envision telling the world that they are in a relationship with me. This is the sad truth about trans admirers -- they are an emerging community that still feels very marginalized in society and they need to mature as a community. (I say that with great respect to them.) So, I realized recently that I should stick to the gay guys if I want to have a shot at a long term relationship with anyone, and hope that he won't mind (or likes) the fact that I dress from time to time. It's very similar to the dilemma that straight crossdressers face -- do they actively seek out women who like crossdressers, or do they meet mainstream straight women as men and tell them that they are secret crossdressers?

Recently, I've had a number of affirming experiences with gay guys. I do a fair amount of online dating, and simply post a picture of my male self and do not mention that I dress. Recently, I joined adam4adam.com, put up a profile with my male self and for the first time revealed in my profile that I liked to dress (but that it was not a must). I've noticed that I've had a fair number of gay men interested in me despite the fact that I've mentioned that I like to dress. So far, I haven't met "the one", but I feel like it's a step in the right direction. I was also set up with a gay guy on a blind date by a friend. He's a really nice guy (but I'm not feeling attracted to him physically). Nonetheless, he revealed that he has always wanted to be with a crossdresser, and only after that, did I reveal that I was a crossdresser! So, I guess what I am saying is that there are alot of stable gay guys who want relationships out there, and may tolerate or enjoy having a crossdresser as a partner.

One of the things about gay men that doesn't do it for me is "gay acting" gay men. Unfortunately, my femininity isn't awakened by softer, gay men -- I really like the very masculine type. I realize that I just can't be with a gay guy who looks or acts gay, even if he is the sweetest, nicest guy (which was the problem with the guy above who revealed that he wanted to try being with a crossdresser). I find that that is hard to find in the mainstream gay community. So, other patterns I've noticed about the type of gay guys that I might be attracted to are: a) that they do not hang out in the mainstream gay community and were never really attracted to gay culture and don't know much about it; b) they used to date women, they have had some experience with women, and may be divorced with children and now feel that they are gay in their 30's, 40's and 50's; in other words, they are "late bloomers" to being gay; c) they are more masculine than other gay guys in general; d) they like skinny smooth Asian guys (like me, thank god!) and tend to be the "top" sexually.

I will keep adding to my list as I think of things. Now, I know that I am making sweeping generalizations about these men, so please don't clobber me! If anyone wants to exchange ideas, I'd love to hear from you!

[Barbara Dugan]

Hi all. It's been some time since I have added anything to this posting.

I actually wanted to talk about the patterns that I am noticing in my dating life these days. As I have said before, I consider myself to be a gay male crossdresser. I've never been with a woman and date men exclusively dressed as a boy or girl. I realize that I am "just" a crossdresser, in that I enjoy dressing up and feeling feminine, but I have no plans to transition. I therefore feel that my best partner would be a man who would be attracted to me as a male 90% of the time and as a woman 10% of the time (because that's how much time I spend in each gender). I also would like to be considered the more feminine partner in the relationship regardless of how I'm dressed. So, I really do feel that dating a "gay" man -- a man who primarily likes other men is my best bet. I get ALOT of online attention from "straight" or "bi" guys as Maya, but the problem is that they'll likely never commit to a fully functional relationship with me because they don't want to see me dressed as a man or envision telling the world that they are in a relationship with me. This is the sad truth about trans admirers -- they are an emerging community that still feels very marginalized in society and they need to mature as a community. (I say that with great respect to them.) So, I realized recently that I should stick to the gay guys if I want to have a shot at a long term relationship with anyone, and hope that he won't mind (or likes) the fact that I dress from time to time. It's very similar to the dilemma that straight crossdressers face -- do they actively seek out women who like crossdressers, or do they meet mainstream straight women as men and tell them that they are secret crossdressers?

Recently, I've had a number of affirming experiences with gay guys. I do a fair amount of online dating, and simply post a picture of my male self and do not mention that I dress. Recently, I joined adam4adam.com, put up a profile with my male self and for the first time revealed in my profile that I liked to dress (but that it was not a must). I've noticed that I've had a fair number of gay men interested in me despite the fact that I've mentioned that I like to dress. So far, I haven't met "the one", but I feel like it's a step in the right direction. I was also set up with a gay guy on a blind date by a friend. He's a really nice guy (but I'm not feeling attracted to him physically). Nonetheless, he revealed that he has always wanted to be with a crossdresser, and only after that, did I reveal that I was a crossdresser! So, I guess what I am saying is that there are alot of stable gay guys who want relationships out there, and may tolerate or enjoy having a crossdresser as a partner.

One of the things about gay men that doesn't do it for me is "gay acting" gay men. Unfortunately, my femininity isn't awakened by softer, gay men -- I really like the very masculine type. I realize that I just can't be with a gay guy who looks or acts gay, even if he is the sweetest, nicest guy (which was the problem with the guy above who revealed that he wanted to try being with a crossdresser). I find that that is hard to find in the mainstream gay community. So, other patterns I've noticed about the type of gay guys that I might be attracted to are: a) that they do not hang out in the mainstream gay community and were never really attracted to gay culture and don't know much about it; b) they used to date women, they have had some experience with women, and may be divorced with children and now feel that they are gay in their 30's, 40's and 50's; in other words, they are "late bloomers" to being gay; c) they are more masculine than other gay guys in general; d) they like skinny smooth Asian guys (like me, thank god!) and tend to be the "top" sexually.

I will keep adding to my list as I think of things. Now, I know that I am making sweeping generalizations about these men, so please don't clobber me! If anyone wants to exchange ideas, I'd love to hear from you!

Wow Maya, It couldn't be explained any better... I've been having similar experiences, on one of my fem profiles I set my status as gay and still get the attention of a lot of straight and bi -curious guys but recently I am having some kind of struggle ...I don't feel feminine enough to get intimate with them, I still feel the same attraction it's just feel insecure about it.

[joannemarie barker]

Wow Maya, It couldn't be explained any better... I've been having similar experiences, on one of my fem profiles I set my status as gay and still get the attention of a lot of straight and bi -curious guys but recently I am having some kind of struggle ...I don't feel feminine enough to get intimate with them, I still feel the same attraction it's just feel insecure about it.


you look feminine enough to me sweetie and as you said you have already caught their attention :)

[jaqueline1]

Im a gay crossdresser that is attracted to guys but im too nervous to go enfemme or as a guy and set up a date

[Krissie1962]

I am not full time cd. but wish I could .im also not passable as a women .I fanticize about going out with a man ,on walks, and to parks and things, But at the same time have ,thoughts of helping another cd with her make up or hair and other things girls like to do. so yeh im pretty confused as who id like to date an open gay man ? who is probably thinking one thing. or a gay cd?who is probably thinking the same thing I believe the later .as there would be more common interests.dateing I realy dont know where to start.

[Krissie1962]

I am not full time cd. but wish I could .im also not passable as a women .I fanticize about going out with a man ,on walks, and to parks and things, But at the same time have ,thoughts of helping another cd with her make up or hair and other things girls like to do. so yeh im pretty confused as who id like to date an open gay man ? who is probably thinking one thing. or a gay cd?who is probably thinking the same thing I believe the later .as there would be more common interests.dateing I realy dont know where to start.

[JavaJunkie]

I'm fabulous!.....at least for today lol. Why yes Maya, I have a loving bf who means the world to me. I'm the same way, I like my guys not so much straight looking (what is that even supposed to mean these days) but at the very least clean cut and some degree of style.

I agree most other gay guys shun us because we offend their definition of what a guy is supposed to be like. I have noticed though that most of the guys saying "no fems" are usually fem themselves. I can certainly understand the feeling cause I'm diva enough for the both of us lol....definitely don't need more sparkle magic around here! Craigslist is closeted gay land so looking for anything more than a one time hookup is mostly out of the question. Same goes for most of the online dating sites seeing as how people only want sex on there. You really have to be out and about in public to meet nice, men who would want more than some fantasy fulfilled. Admittedly I met my current bf online, but we were talking long before we ever met in person. He's supportive to the point that he doesn't want me to transition, but is totally ok with me going out enfemme. To him what matters most is the person underneath the makeup and cute dresses. I just hope and pray then if I do decide to transition, he'll stay with me but I can't say for sure.

I have had bf's before that as soon as they found out about the dressing they immediately ended the relationship. They couldn't for the life of them understand why a guy would want to dress like a girl. Oh well, their loss! :D

[Badtranny]

Java, Barbara, and Maya,

We should totally form a gang! You girls know all the words to my songs, (except for me being an actual tranny in transition), we are definitely soul sisters. ;-)
I see lots of cute boys, but it's only the big strong masculine men that have a chance to peek under my skirt. I totally agree with Java that getting out and about makes meeting cool guys so much easier. I prefer dudes that identify as straight, but they're also the ones who have a hard time being out in public with me. Kinda makes me feel like a dirty little secret.

I think the right guy would probably identify as proudly bi and wouldn't give a damn if people read me or not. He's out there ladies, we just have to keep trying 'em on until we find one that fits.

[JavaJunkie]

omg......we can call it the Fab Four, or the Cute and Cuddly Bunch! I think what you mean Melissa is you prefer masculine men since most straight guys tend to be this way. Nothing makes me swoon more than a sexy, strong man sweeping me off my feet for a kiss.....oh my!

[Barbara Dugan]

I think the right guy would probably identify as proudly bi and wouldn't give a damn if people read me or not. He's out there ladies, we just have to keep trying 'em on until we find one that fits.
Sounds like a perfect plan Melissa:)

[StarrOfDelite]

MARRIED MEN

As an older CD/TV I try to stick to my own age group, plus or minus ten years. This pretty much is a pool of lifelong bachelors who are Gay, Bi-sexual Divorcees, and Unhappily Married Men. I've dated in all three categories, but this discussion is about the latter only.

I have been surprised by the number of married men whoapproach me, and say pretty much the same thing: 1. They have been married 10-12-15 years, 2. The marriage has been asexual for several years, 2. They have 'always' been curious about crossdressers/transvestites, and 3. Are willing to actually spend cash on me for drinks, dinner, and (if things click just right) a nice hotel room. Orientation-wise, they are different from Admirers I've met at Alternate Clubs, but I'm not sure I could define that feeling in less than a thousand words, and even then it would be imperfect.

I've dated a number of such men, have been intimate with a significant percentage of them, and have even grown fond of some.

I was. and still am to some extent, ethically troubled by the situation. I have reached a point where I justify it on the basis that whatever was wrong with the marriages had happened long before I was in the picture. Also, I am really only interested in good times, fun and satisfying sex, so I have no intent to disrupt the marriages any further.

The downside factors are the aforementioned moral ambiguity, and the fact that the relationship isn't going anywhere.

The upside factors are that the relationship isn't going anywhere, so I don't have to be worried about pleasing and/or not-offending a significant other, and that these guys tend to treat me like a real woman, and not like another man.

[joannemarie barker]

ever since I had sex with my flatmate I have struggled with guilt over my feelings.he has a lovely girlfriend who I get on with really well now.I realise it was one crazy night on his part and I am sorry I slept with him whilst he's with her but I can't help myself wishing I could have another night like that with him even though I really like his gf,I feel guilty about that but I still couldn't pass up another chance

[ReineD]

2. The marriage has been asexual for several years, 2. They have 'always' been curious about crossdressers/transvestites,


Orientation-wise, they are different from Admirers I've met at Alternate Clubs, but I'm not sure I could define that feeling in less than a thousand words, and even then it would be imperfect.


The upside factors are that the relationship isn't going anywhere, so I don't have to be worried about pleasing and/or not-offending a significant other, and that these guys tend to treat me like a real woman, and not like another man.

Do you think the reason they have no sex with their wives is perhaps a lack of interest in women, and had they come to terms with their sexuality earlier, they would not have married GGs?

Also, I understand you are not their keeper and there is no way you can determine whether or not you are making their relationships worse, unless you actually have a chat with their wives. These wives need to know the truths about their husbands so that they can just bite the bullet and move on from their relationships and perhaps find someone who is into them. But, have you ever considered going out with men who have taken the plunge after realizing they are not into their wives and have actually divorced them? Of course, if all these people are into open relationships, then my comments do not apply.


I realise it was one crazy night on his part and I am sorry I slept with him whilst he's with her but I can't help myself wishing I could have another night like that with him even though I really like his gf,I feel guilty about that but I still couldn't pass up another chance

As with my comments above, if she is sleeping around too and they have an open relationship, then all bets are off, but what makes things worse in your situation is the fact that you KNOW the gf would be upset if she found out. Where are your principles? Feeling "guilty", yet going ahead anyway does not absolve you from any wrong-doing.

To both of you: even men in committed homosexual relationships have some sense of propriety and loyalty to their partners, unless, again, they are in open relationships.

[joannemarie barker]

you're right reine,in fairness I wasn't even aware they were really together that night and nothing has happened since and I'm sure won't again anyway

[Vickie_CDTV]

Also, I understand you are not their keeper and there is no way you can determine whether or not you are making their relationships worse, unless you actually have a chat with their wives. These wives need to know the truths about their husbands so that they can just bite the bullet and move on from their relationships and perhaps find someone who is into them. But, have you ever considered going out with men who have taken the plunge after realizing they are not into their wives and have actually divorced them? Of course, if all these people are into open relationships, then my comments do not apply.

That is an excellent point, after all the wives who do not know what is going on behind their backs are not consenting to sleep with the person they are cheating with (and putting their health and their life at potential risk.)

But not only does it affect the wife, but the children of the man who is cheating. Think about the damage that will be done to them if the wife finds out and the family is torn apart, and torn apart in a very ugly, nasty way to boot.

[Barbara Dugan]

MARRIED MEN

The downside factors are the aforementioned moral ambiguity, and the fact that the relationship isn't going anywhere.

The upside factors are that the relationship isn't going anywhere, so I don't have to be worried about pleasing and/or not-offending a significant other, and that these guys tend to treat me like a real woman, and not like another man.
I was once approached by E-mail by the wife of one married guy,not really sure how she found me, but the thing is I didn't had any relationship with this guy other than just an Internet flirt...the experience left me emotionally scarred because in the past I did got involved with other married guys as a matter of fact I was basically looking for them.
I made a decision at the time to stop any affair with a married guy.. recently I've been close to broke the promise I made to myself, it's been hard because the experience that Delite describe is a very nice one but I think I can be strong enough.


Do you think the reason they have no sex with their wives is perhaps a lack of interest in women, and had they come to terms with their sexuality earlier, they would not have married GGs?
.
Most of these guys claim to be straight a few define themselves as bisexual or bi curious and they are interested on women and they always go to the extremes of treat you as one..why are they interested on a transvestite? is something that still I am triying to figure out

[Tia808]

So, other patterns I've noticed about the type of gay guys that I might be attracted to are: a) that they do not hang out in the mainstream gay community and were never really attracted to gay culture and don't know much about it; b) they used to date women, they have had some experience with women, and may be divorced with children and now feel that they are gay in their 30's, 40's and 50's; in other words, they are "late bloomers" to being gay; c) they are more masculine than other gay guys in general; d) they like skinny smooth Asian guys (like me, thank god!) and tend to be the "top" sexually. !

Awesome post as usual, Maya! Very, very well-reasoned and thought out. I think if I had to go by percentages and narrow down the demographic most likely to produce me a solid boyfriend, your patterns would be an ideal starting point. In actual practice, though, I've tended to be luckier with the "admirer" types willing to try branching out, rather than gay guys doing the same (from the opposite perspective). It *could* be because I apparently spend much more time as a girl than you do (though you are SO natural-looking it's hard to believe that could be the case), and have an emotional need for my man to be sexually attracted to that side of me more than simply tolerating it or liking it mainly as a change-up. But I really, really enjoy your posts, Maya; and Barbara's too. You girls are terrific!

(And by complimenting these two gals, I don't mean to exclude any others -- love you all!)

[wino_tg_girl]

I am on my part really struggling on the dating department. I can get sex any moment I want but those moments are short lived and most straight acting guys see you only as a sexual fantasy.
What I really long is for a real stable relationship. I am think I am ready for one but everyday seem harder to reach:doh:

I am sorry :cry: This thread is making me depressed

That is just people. I'm a straight crossdresser (sometimes-m2f dating women). When I was in better shape and had more confidence I dated a lot after my ex and I split. Most women dating men are the same way. Some people are looking for sex and some are looking for a relationship. It is hard when those of us looking for a relationship meet with those looking for just sex. I think most single people are sex seekers and like their single status, male or female. It can be hurtful if you feel close to someone and they just want to ****. I don't think it's a trans thing or a gay thing. It's a people thing. Finding the right person is never easy.

The hope for us all is that there are many people out there who have found each other and are in great relationships. I'd rather be single until I find that right person. It wouldn't be good for any of us relationship seekers if the sex-seekers gave up their lifestyle to settle for us just to spare our feelings. They are leaving us out there to find the right person. There is hope, and we just have to keep at it to find that happiness. I'm old enough to have learned that success in love or profession requires not settling.

You're not alone. You are just like every other person out there looking for love, and you will find your guy.

[Christa]

I really applaud all the contributors on this thread... it's nice to hear from girls facing the same issues that I face. As a gay crossdresser, we face a unique set of circumstances whether single or coupled.

To those of you who crave a relationship, I encourage you to hang in there. I've been with my guy for 20 years (good Lord, where did the time go?). And while we we've certainly faced our challenges, our love and respect for one another drives us to keep working at making our partnership better. Communication is difficult. But for me, discussing crossdressing with him is especially tough. I'm slowly coming to terms with the shame I've felt about it, and am learning to embrace my feminine side. And he's learning too. So while it's not longer the elephant in the room, crossdressing is just one of the many issues (definitely not the most important) we're working through.

So if there's a lesson to shared, it's this: relationships take work. Holding out for the perfect guy who accepts every single part of you without reservation is a great dream, but you may be waiting an awfully long time. So find someone you respect and who respects you back. Find someone who's willing to work at communication. And don't give up.

You deserve to be loved for the beautiful person you are.

Love,

Christa

[StarrOfDelite]

Do you think the reason they have no sex with their wives is perhaps a lack of interest in women, and had they come to terms with their sexuality earlier, they would not have married GGs?

Also, I understand you are not their keeper and there is no way you can determine whether or not you are making their relationships worse, unless you actually have a chat with their wives. These wives need to know the truths about their husbands so that they can just bite the bullet and move on from their relationships and perhaps find someone who is into them. But, have you ever considered going out with men who have taken the plunge after realizing they are not into their wives and have actually divorced them? Of course, if all these people are into open relationships, then my comments do not apply.




To both of you: even men in committed homosexual relationships have some sense of propriety and loyalty to their partners, unless, again, they are in open relationships.
\
You certainly raise some interesting questions, and I'm not sure I'm competent to answer them. However, here's a stab. I have not dated married men except those who have claimed they were no longer intimate with their spouses, and had not been intimate for a sufficiently long period of time for me to assume that future intimacy was unlikely. Admittedly, this is taking the statements made to me at face value, which requires a certain amount of assessing the veracity of the male involved. I don't think I would knowingly sleep with a man who was still involved in a sexual relationship with his wife.

Regarding the question of whether they are men who might not really be interested in genetic women, I'd have to say that is a fairly strong possibility. My personal experience, which is fairly limited, would lead me to think that the statement that, "Inside every Admirer there is a Crossdresser struggling to get out," has some truth. On the other hand, there are genuinely bi-sexual people who enjoy being married or involved in a serious relationship with a G-girl, who still enjoy getting on the down-low with other men, and who are just as sexually attracted to either men or women or CD/TV. I think Barbara M asked the right question when she said (paraphrased) these men claim to be straight, claim to be interested in women, and treat CD/TV like women, so why are they interested in someone who is, in the final analysis, a genetic man? When anyone answers that question, please call me ASAP.

I'm probably older than you, and in my experiences as a military officer, a lawyer, a college professor and an educational consultant I've come to the conclusion that there are many, many marriages where the partners are over fifty, and no longer physically attracted to each other, which endure because of family, financial, friendship or religious reasons. I would describe these arrangements as things which function as 'open marriages' without any express agreement by either husband or wife. I would, therefore, strongly disagree with the blanket statement that "these wives need to know the truth about their husbands" because in many instances the wife absolutely does NOT want to know anything about what the husband is doing.

Again, starting with the basic premise that these are middle-aged men, in marriages in which the wife is content to have an asexual relationship, with children out of college, I'm not sure that I'd agree it is worse for man to have affairs with Genetic women or Trans-women than it is to drag everything out in the open in the name of Truth, and thereby create a situation where arguably both parties are poorer financially and emotionally and socially. Truth can be a highly over-rated commodity, and like most 'virtues' it's efficacy is often situational rather than absolute.

[maya1love]

Well, there certainly has been alot of activity on this thread recently! I'm so glad! Just a friendly reminder, as the self-appointed moderator of this thread :), that the purpose of the thread is to talk about our experiences as gay male crossdressers. There are many threads about our experiences with admirers from a straight or bi crossdresser perspective, but none from an exclusively gay male perspective. One of the reasons that I want to keep this thread relevant and alive is to discuss, as gay male crossdressers, how to form relationships/partnerships with men. So, it's more than about how to find sex with men, or about who these male admirers are -- it's about building a relationship with a man. Thanks for your understanding, ladies!

One of the things that I am realizing in reading posts is that the straight/bi crossdresser community seems to be at a different stage in their evolution regarding relationships than the gay male crossdresser community. There are lots of posts about what it's like to be a straight crossdresser with a wife/girlfriend and the issues that crossdressing raises. There are alot of success stories, and discussion of compromises to allow the crossdresser to be. However, the gay male crossdresser community is more at the stage of "how do I find a supportive husband/boyfriend"? Perhaps, this is the case because there are so many more straight/bi crossdressers out there than gay crossdressers. But I also think that gay crossdressers may expect that they will not be lucky enough to find a good relationship and settle for being single? Would love to hear your thoughts on this!

Wino_tg_girl: Your post gave me so much hope! It reminded me again of what is most important!
Christa: You are my hero and a pioneer in this discussion!

Thank you all for your posts!

[Tia808]

However, the gay male crossdresser community is more at the stage of "how do I find a supportive husband/boyfriend"? Perhaps, this is the case because there are so many more straight/bi crossdressers out there than gay crossdressers. But I also think that gay crossdressers may expect that they will not be lucky enough to find a good relationship and settle for being single? Would love to hear your thoughts on this!
***
Christa: You are my hero and a pioneer in this discussion!


Maya, I think you're right that a lot of gay CDs sorta give up on relationships, and I think that, as with straight CDs, there's another sizable percentage of our demographic that simply suppress their CDing to land a man. (From an outsider's perspective, it must seem so strange that our situation is about as tough as it is for straight CDs (despite all the wonderful, beautiful success stories here, I think supportive partners of either sex are in the minority), especially for those of us that have never been traditionally masculine. But it obviously is!). I think another sizable percentage "evolve" to identify more as TS (and I suspect I'm on that road myself, though I consider it more of a lateral than an evolution :)), and there is a somewhat related subset that, whether or not they identify as TS, feminize their everyday appearances to at point which guys attracted to them in everyday mode are more likely to accept or appreciate them bumping it up a notch to girl mode.

And I guess the final reason (at least the last one I'll bother you all with) that there seems to be less input from our segment is that it seems most of the more masculine gay CDs, and the ones that take on the husband role, *tend* to regard CDing as more of a drag thing, a fun thing to do for kicks (I know this is an over-generalization, but still). And, much more so than in straight relationships/community, drag often isn't seen as that big of a deal in a relationship. I think it's a little different for us, we strive harder to be convincing, real-world gals, and the need to be able to present that way is a little more ingrained into us. And that, as opposed to just-for-kicks-drag, has an impact on relationships.

With that, I'll shut up a bit and rest my fingers and brain :)

P.S., Christa, you're TOTALLY a hero and pioneer!

[ReineD]

"Inside every Admirer there is a Crossdresser struggling to get out," has some truth. On the other hand, there are genuinely bi-sexual people who enjoy being married or involved in a serious relationship with a G-girl, who still enjoy getting on the down-low with other men, and who are just as sexually attracted to either men or women or CD/TV. I think Barbara M asked the right question when she said (paraphrased) these men claim to be straight, claim to be interested in women, and treat CD/TV like women, so why are they interested in someone who is, in the final analysis, a genetic man? When anyone answers that question, please call me ASAP.

I agree with you! Have you heard of Alice Novik (Alice in Genderland) (http://aliceingenderland.com/). She is a psychologist who also has extensive experience having sex with men as Alice, and she is also happily married and in an open relationship with a GG. This is her take on admirers in the LA area, it's a very good read: http://aliceingenderland.com/Manhunt.html

The other possibility is, as you say, the men interested in CDers are bi. This makes perfect sense. What I don't understand are the CDers who believe that men who are interested in them are straight and further that they sees the CDers completely as women, but with the "little something extra" that GGs don't have. :p



I'm probably older than you, ...

(I peeked, and honestly, just by a negligible amount. :))



.... and in my experiences as a military officer, a lawyer, a college professor and an educational consultant I've come to the conclusion that there are many, many marriages where the partners are over fifty, and no longer physically attracted to each other, which endure because of family, financial, friendship or religious reasons. I would describe these arrangements as things which function as 'open marriages' without any express agreement by either husband or wife. I would, therefore, strongly disagree with the blanket statement that "these wives need to know the truth about their husbands" because in many instances the wife absolutely does NOT want to know anything about what the husband is doing.

Again, starting with the basic premise that these are middle-aged men, in marriages in which the wife is content to have an asexual relationship, with children out of college, I'm not sure that I'd agree it is worse for man to have affairs with Genetic women or Trans-women than it is to drag everything out in the open in the name of Truth, and thereby create a situation where arguably both parties are poorer financially and emotionally and socially. Truth can be a highly over-rated commodity, and like most 'virtues' it's efficacy is often situational rather than absolute.

You are correct. I can only speculate as to how women in such marriages would feel. I do agree there are many middle-aged marriages where the only bond is emotional or financial and where sex is but a distant memory. I just know that I would not be able to stay in a relationship like that. I would want to know if my husband was going out to clubs for sex. I rather think I might feel less threatened if I knew he was attracted to CDers and not GGs, but it still is something that I don't think I could live with.:sad:

The scenario I have in mind is, there is a tacit understanding between both such partners that sex is no longer a priority for either of them, and it is replaced by the depth of the emotional bond and caring that has developed over having shared a lifetime of trials and tribulations. If I were such a wife I'd be surprised to find out that my husband still has an active interest in sex and if I knew about this, I would do what I could to rekindle it between us. Admittedly, I may be naive.

[StarrOfDelite]

I agree with you! Have you heard of Alice Novik (Alice in Genderland) (http://aliceingenderland.com/). She is a psychologist who also has extensive experience having sex with men as Alice, and she is also happily married and in an open relationship with a GG. This is her take on admirers in the LA area, it's a very good read: http://aliceingenderland.com/Manhunt.html

The other possibility is, as you say, the men interested in CDers are bi. This makes perfect sense. What I don't understand are the CDers who believe that men who are interested in them are straight and further that they sees the CDers completely as women, but with the "little something extra" that GGs don't have. :p

Hi Reine,

Thanks for the link to Alice Novik. I had never read her blog before, and it will be on my favorites list in the future.

I think that she hits the nail on the head with her comments. I particularly was struck by her comment that CD/TV people can never understand whether under the proper circumstances a Straight Male might consider a walk on the wild side becuase we are not now, and never were pure straight males and have always looked at the world with a different perspective. I'm sure that some, but not all, of the posters on Crossdressers.com would disagree with that statement, of course, but as an Admirer who quckly became seduced into active transvestitism, I can identify with her column more than some others. My personal history would probably make a poster-boy/girl case history for her professionally. Details omitted.

Starr







You are correct. I can only speculate as to how women in such marriages would feel. I do agree there are many middle-aged marriages where the only bond is emotional or financial and where sex is but a distant memory. I just know that I would not be able to stay in a relationship like that. I would want to know if my husband was going out to clubs for sex. I rather think I might feel less threatened if I knew he was attracted to CDers and not GGs, but it still is something that I don't think I could live with.:sad:

The scenario I have in mind is, there is a tacit understanding between both such partners that sex is no longer a priority for either of them, and it is replaced by the depth of the emotional bond and caring that has developed over having shared a lifetime of trials and tribulations. If I were such a wife I'd be surprised to find out that my husband still has an active interest in sex and if I knew about this, I would do what I could to rekindle it between us. Admittedly, I may be naive.

In your scenario, I found your comment about being surprised to learn your husband still had an active interest in sex to be interesting. I think there are lots of reasons why men lose interest in having sex with their wives, but am skeptical that this equates to a loss of interest in sex. Work pressures, poor physical fitness, distractions from children, and sometimes just "familiarity breeds contempt" can dull the interest in the spouse, but I doubt that this generally means loss of interest in the activity. The real question, as it pertains to this board, it seems to me, is how much of the loss of interest is caused by the male's underlying inherent attraction to M2F trans-gender persons?

I think it's safe to assume your are much more sophisticated about this issue than most gender women, but I wonder if the 'typical' married woman would not be more outraged by the fact that her husband's lover was transgender. I'd guess that many women wouldn't attempt to rekindle the fire because they might think the husband was gay and they couldn't compete, or because they themselves would be so homophobic that they'd be disgusted.

[TxCassie]

Hello All,
Hello Maya1Love,

Please forgive me, but I've been a member of the board for some years now. To my discredit, I have not been a good poster or been active in keeping up. I've lost my password, forgotten my userID, you name it, I had the roadblocked. I finally purchased my first laptop and signed on with my first wireless service, which was a big, big step in the right direction. So, I'm taking another stab at making a connection here.

Maya, I must apologize, only tonight did I read your the private message you sent me in 2009, yes 2009. I had no idea anyone written me. Please, please accept my apologies From what I can tell you've done remarkable work keeping us gay TGals together here on the forum.

My name is Cassie. I'm now a grand dame at the age of 51yrs. I do dress, but not as often as I'd like and I've never dressed fully. I'm working on it. I've found a boutique in Houston, Texas (I'm in San Antoni0, 250 west-southwest of Houston) that caters to TGals. SA isn't the friendliest city for us TGals. I am gay, always been, always had Cassie in me, but for years made sure she didn't even see the light of day. As I grew older, I found that I could no longer ignore Cassie and her need to be expressed in some way, that was about ten years ago. I've built and purged a couple of times since. I'm currently trying to re-build my wardrobe again, hopefully, with no purging this time.

I love being a male, but I never felt i was totally masculine and so easily identify with a feminine nature. I don't know if it's a commentary on how I see my sexuality or self-homophobia. I do know, I feel great when I dress and I think I'd like knowing other TGals and men who know Cassie or know about Cassie.

So, once again, sorry for the inconsistency, I meant no harm.

Cassie

[StarrOfDelite]

Hi ladies! I was thinking that I would like to create a flickr group about gay transvestites/crossdressers, so I did. Here is the link: http://www.flickr.com/groups/gaytransvestites/

If you are interested, please feel free to join!

Done. You have a great photostream on Flickr Maya.

[Mizzsummers]

Dating in the gay scene is very hard. I find I am too femme to land a gay guy and not femme enough to land a bi guy. So i end up just having random hook-ups, which is never safe. And I feel I get clingy as i want a relationship.

it sure is difficult, but if its supposed to be its supposed to be!

[StarrOfDelite]

I had one of "those experiences which perplex" this weekend. I had corresponded with a fellow from western Pennsylvania for several months, but I always seemed to be in NYC when he was free on the weekends, and when I was "at home" he was working weekends. We finally got settled on last Saturday nite, and I put on a new summery dress, et cetera, got as pretty as an Old Tranny can get, and met him at a local TGI Friday's. I knew he wasn't movie star handsome, but he had written some interesting emails, and I thought we'd at least have some decent conversation even if no sparks were likely to be struck. For the record, I went to the meeting with 100% intentions to keep the minimal amount of clothing I was wearing (it was still 88 degrees at ten p.m.) in place at all times, but had communicated no ground rules to him. In other words, so far as he was aware, I could have been just waiting for him to say "Let's get a room," before I tore his clothes off and ravaged him. Or vice versa, which would be more fun for me.

He got to the rendezvous first, so I sashayed in about five minute late (which would have been very prompt for a G Girl), sat down next to him, gave him a big, flashing smile and a "Hi-ya!" in my best trying-not-to-sound-like-Tootsie girly voice, and tried to chat him up. He was very distant at that time, and remained so during the entire evening. I wound up drinking about four glasses of ice cold Chardonnay and eating an order of deep-fried calamari, so he wasn't cheap-skating the date, but he never opened up, and never seemed like he was enjoying himself. Around 0230 we went back to the lot where my car was parked, and he sort of shook my hand and gave me a man hug and a maiden aunt kiss all at the same time, and took off. I sent him an email thanking him for a nice evening, and he hasn't responded at all. Three days and counting, and clearly that dog isn't going to hunt anymore.

He had claimed that he had had Gay experiences as a young man, had given it up for the duration of a 25 year marriage, was getting back into the life, and had always been fascinated by trans-girls. He had several full face photos of me, and a couple of full length body pix, too, so it's not like he could have been surprised at my appearance, and he seemed to be distracted even before I arrived so I'm pretty sure it wasn't my presentation.

Ordinarily, I would have just written this off as a learning experience of the no-harm/no-foul variety, and be happy I got food and wine out of the bargain. However, it seems somehow germane to the discussions we've been having on this Thread about dating Gay men, dating Admirers, and dating Straight guys ( if there are such, of course). So, I'm wondering, was he one of those Admirers who don't really want to be the Male half? Or is he a Gay Guy who had second thoughts before I ever arrived? Is he a confused Hetero who had second thoughts about taking a Walk on the Wild Side. He seemed enthusiastic to meet. I'm sure we have all had some setbacks with the delicate psyches of guys who like CD's, e.g. impotence and premature ejaculation, inter alia, are two I've dealt with in the past, but this is the first one I've had where the man was all enthusiasm about meeting, we'd exchanged at least 12-15 emails apiece, and just turned out to be totally disinterested at the F2F.

This may be an important point. At some point in the evening I myself sort of gave up on trying to be witty, enchanting and fascinating ingrid, and wound up talking about my adventures as a Leader of Men and Gentleman by act of Congress. He seemed more interested in those stories than anything I talked about which are important to my CD'ing. In fact, as far as i can recall, he never asked a single question about any of that. It's not like I've dated every Admirer entire Russian Army, but all of the newbies I have met have been totally curious about what it's like to be a CD.

It was just a weird experience, and I'm curious if anyone else has dealt with something like it.

[TxCassie]

well, Star, chock another experience for the "Old Tranny". it sounds like he had something going on inside, you likely will never know. He could have built up his anticipation ( like a kid who eyes are bigger than his stomach), but when reality was right in front of him, he was a bust. He may have not even know how to proceed with a TGal. Who knows. But you know, you let yourself be open to a possibility and that's what matters. Surely, you are entitled to shake your head and say.. HUH..:eek: :doh:, but don't let it get you down.

Stay beautiful... babe.

Cassie.

[StarrOfDelite]

Thanx Cassie, I appreciate the kind words and thoughts. Fortunately, it was so patently obvious from the first instant I said "Hi" that it was going to be a difficult evening that I felt no sense of personal inadequacy from his attitude. I just thought it was a shame the poor man didn't even give himself a chance to have a good time with chat, flirting, wine and song. I wouldn't have posted the experience on any other Thread on Crossdresser, but this seemed apropos to some posts that Barbara and Maya and Reine and I exchanged here a couple of weeks gone by.

Thanx again.

[Barbara Dugan]

I had one of "those experiences which perplex" this weekend. I had corresponded with a fellow from western Pennsylvania for several months, but I always seemed to be in NYC when he was free on the weekends, and when I was "at home" he was working weekends. We finally got settled on last Saturday nite, and I put on a new summery dress, et cetera, got as pretty as an Old Tranny can get, and met him at a local TGI Friday's. I knew he wasn't movie star handsome, but he had written some interesting emails, and I thought we'd at least have some decent conversation even if no sparks were likely to be struck. For the record, I went to the meeting with 100% intentions to keep the minimal amount of clothing I was wearing (it was still 88 degrees at ten p.m.) in place at all times, but had communicated no ground rules to him. In other words, so far as he was aware, I could have been just waiting for him to say "Let's get a room," before I tore his clothes off and ravaged him. Or vice versa, which would be more fun for me.

He got to the rendezvous first, so I sashayed in about five minute late (which would have been very prompt for a G Girl), sat down next to him, gave him a big, flashing smile and a "Hi-ya!" in my best trying-not-to-sound-like-Tootsie girly voice, and tried to chat him up. He was very distant at that time, and remained so during the entire evening. I wound up drinking about four glasses of ice cold Chardonnay and eating an order of deep-fried calamari, so he wasn't cheap-skating the date, but he never opened up, and never seemed like he was enjoying himself. Around 0230 we went back to the lot where my car was parked, and he sort of shook my hand and gave me a man hug and a maiden aunt kiss all at the same time, and took off. I sent him an email thanking him for a nice evening, and he hasn't responded at all. Three days and counting, and clearly that dog isn't going to hunt anymore.

He had claimed that he had had Gay experiences as a young man, had given it up for the duration of a 25 year marriage, was getting back into the life, and had always been fascinated by trans-girls. He had several full face photos of me, and a couple of full length body pix, too, so it's not like he could have been surprised at my appearance, and he seemed to be distracted even before I arrived so I'm pretty sure it wasn't my presentation.

Ordinarily, I would have just written this off as a learning experience of the no-harm/no-foul variety, and be happy I got food and wine out of the bargain. However, it seems somehow germane to the discussions we've been having on this Thread about dating Gay men, dating Admirers, and dating Straight guys ( if there are such, of course). So, I'm wondering, was he one of those Admirers who don't really want to be the Male half? Or is he a Gay Guy who had second thoughts before I ever arrived? Is he a confused Hetero who had second thoughts about taking a Walk on the Wild Side. He seemed enthusiastic to meet. I'm sure we have all had some setbacks with the delicate psyches of guys who like CD's, e.g. impotence and premature ejaculation, inter alia, are two I've dealt with in the past, but this is the first one I've had where the man was all enthusiasm about meeting, we'd exchanged at least 12-15 emails apiece, and just turned out to be totally disinterested at the F2F.

This may be an important point. At some point in the evening I myself sort of gave up on trying to be witty, enchanting and fascinating ingrid, and wound up talking about my adventures as a Leader of Men and Gentleman by act of Congress. He seemed more interested in those stories than anything I talked about which are important to my CD'ing. In fact, as far as i can recall, he never asked a single question about any of that. It's not like I've dated every Admirer entire Russian Army, but all of the newbies I have met have been totally curious about what it's like to be a CD.

It was just a weird experience, and I'm curious if anyone else has dealt with something like it.

Very interesting expeerience...I am really surprised he even show up for the date, what make me think that he may try to contact you again, he just probably got cold feet. I usually try not to gamble with newbies but sometimes some of them are worth the gamble.

[StarrOfDelite]

Very interesting expeerience...I am really surprised he even show up for the date, what make me think that he may try to contact you again, he just probably got cold feet. I usually try not to gamble with newbies but sometimes some of them are worth the gamble.

I've been wondering why he showed up instead of canceling, also. The possibility always exists that he was trying to be scintillating and is just a dud, although if his emails had indicate that I wouldn't have met him F2F in the first place. I agree whole-heartedly with your comment about newbies. I try to avoid the guys who view us as something akin to a new Thrill Ride at Six Flags, but every once in a while a bad one can slip through the net of defences I've developed over the years.

[Barbara Dugan]

I try to avoid the guys who view us as something akin to a new Thrill Ride at Six Flags, Yes some guys act that way but they are easy to spot.

[Badtranny]

mmmmmm I love newbies.

I like to be face to face with him so I can see the look. You know, that look he has at the very moment that he realizes that he me may never go back. They only have it once, ...and it's precious. lol

Oh and ladies, I don't know about you, but a ride at Six Flags ain't got nuthin' on me. ;-)

[Barbara Dugan]

I posted this question on a new Thread, the question I believe is universal but as Maya pointed the question can take a different angle for the Gay crossdressers.

The other day at The Home Depot I ran across a gay couple, they were doing what any couple does at the The Home Depot when they are renovating their houses. I really got lovesick and came to realize that I always been single and not getting any younger I long to experience those kind of moments that you can only have on a relationship...But I think that my chances to find a gay partner that love me the way I am are slim and let me pondering if I ever had to choose between love or dressing, what would be my choice?...would you gave up dressing for love?

[maya1love]

Hi Barbara: Thanks for agreeing to repost your question here! Well, I thought hard about the question you were asking. If you are feeling that yearning to be in a loving gay male relationship, there is no reason why that is not possible. If you want to be in a loving relationship with a gay guy where he is tolerant and accepting of your dressing, that is also possible. Whoever has told you that no gay guy would ever want to be in a relationship with you if they knew that you are a crossdresser is completely wrong. But, first you must make a decision about who you wish to be in your life -- do you realistically see yourself as someone who is most comfortable being identified as a gay man and who crossdresses in private (or public) from time to time, or do you see yourself living half the time as a man and half as a woman, or living full-time as a woman? If your ideal is to be one half of a gay male couple (like the couple you saw at Home Depot), then you must start meeting gay men as a man, and going to gay events and going on dates with gay men. I can assure you that you will find at least one gay man who will think that you are absolutely fantastic and will nurture your crossdressing and femininity because he is so "into you" and just wants you to be happy.

As I have personally experienced myself (and I will share below), there are definitely gay men who would enjoy, or at least be tolerant of, having a partner who dresses from time to time, but they don't actively seek out a crossdresser as a partner (just like most "quality" straight women do not seek out crossdressers as husbands but some of them eventually grow to love that aspect of their husbands). You will need to decide who you want to be the majority of the time -- a man or woman, and then market yourself to that community. Go on dates, attend events, and be out there. That's the best way to meet quality men. I mean "quality" only in the sense that meeting people in your own community and in your own friends circles will be the ones who have things in common with you and are the best candidates to be in a long term relationship with.

I think that many of the ladies here find themselves on the receiving end of romantic attention from online t-admirers. It is so flattering, but such a grand illusion. The problem is that you can't really build a relationship (if that is what you are truly seeking) simply because you are a part time t-girl and he is a t-admirer and he likes your online profile. That isn't who you are most of the time, right? Many of us look like pretty regular guys most of the time! ha ha! So, my advice is that even though it is tempting to reply to the gestures of a t-admirer, it isn't practical, except for casual sex -- he's not likely to stick around to love all of you because he is attracted to you as a t-girl only, and if he does, he may not have enough in common with you to spend a Sunday afternoon at Home Depot! If you spend 10-15% of your time dressed as a woman, then you can expect to find a t-girl admirer who will be with you 10-15% of the time as well. I think it is a big mistake to expect a t-admirer to grow to love your male side and to fully accept you. These cases do exist, but they are few and far between. How many straight crossdressers married women who actively sought them out as crossdressers?

Almost at the end of my sermon, I promise... Okay, so, I may have my first boyfriend. (And I am 38 years old, BTW.) I mentioned him in an earlier post as a gay guy who was interested in me and who I eventually told that I dressed. We were set up on a blind date by a mutual friend, and went out as two men on the date. Even though I turned him down because I wasn't attracted to him, he has pursued me and ... he seems to have won me over. Very nice guy. He even bought me lingerie for my birthday recently! So, he's fine with the dressing. My dressing is just a small part of our time together and our conversation. This dating is very new, so I will keep you all posted about us!

[Barbara Dugan]

first you must make a decision about who you wish to be in your life -- do you realistically see yourself as someone who is most comfortable being identified as a gay man and who crossdresses in private (or public) from time to time, or do you see yourself living half the time as a man and half as a woman, or living full-time as a woman? If your ideal is to be one half of a gay male couple (like the couple you saw at Home Depot), then you must start meeting gay men as a man, and going to gay events and going on dates with gay men. I can assure you that you will find at least one gay man who will think that you are absolutely fantastic and will nurture your crossdressing and femininity because he is so "into you" and just wants you to be happy. !

Thanks Maya for your valuable input,I always give thought about it and always I end up with the same comfusion..I guess that one is the root of my problem

[Adelina]

Almost at the end of my sermon, I promise... Okay, so, I may have my first boyfriend. (And I am 38 years old, BTW.) I mentioned him in an earlier post as a gay guy who was interested in me and who I eventually told that I dressed. We were set up on a blind date by a mutual friend, and went out as two men on the date. Even though I turned him down because I wasn't attracted to him, he has pursued me and ... he seems to have won me over. Very nice guy. He even bought me lingerie for my birthday recently! So, he's fine with the dressing. My dressing is just a small part of our time together and our conversation. This dating is very new, so I will keep you all posted about us!

I am incredibly jealous Maya :) Are there any similar boys in Ontario?:daydreaming:

[maya1love]

Hey Adelina -- no need to be jealous! Nice guys exist everywhere -- just remember not to lead with the "crossdressing" issue, because other things are more important, I think! ;) Establish a rapport with him first, then tell him that you dress -- same rule applies to straight crossdressers too.

Barbara, I want you to know that I also struggle with whether I am a "gay male crossdresser", or a "transgender person". I think the labels are less important then envisioning a dream for yourself of who you'd like to be and what your ideal relationship would be. For me, I think I will continue to dress 10% of the time, and I will always like men regardless of how I'm dressed, so being part of a gay male couple makes more sense to me than the other options. Life is imperfect, after all!

[joannemarie barker]

I'll be quite happy to be male most of the time in a gay relationship.I will be honest with my man about dressing and be quite happy to keep my dressing to myself if he doesn't like it.just as long as he's kind and respectful and preferably the top in bed.

[Barbara Dugan]

Many of us look like pretty regular guys most of the time! ha ha! !
You are totally true on this Maya..and I think is one of the mayor issues we have..most of the time the guy that is attracted to us when we are dressed may not be the same guy that we atract on regular guy form. One example on OkCupid I used to get approach a lot from regular heterosexual or Bicurious males...then OkCupid gave the option to be seen only from gay or Bi guys and now I rarely get approached just views

[StarrOfDelite]

Re: Attracting exclusively gay Men. This is going to be disjointed, and stream-of-consciousness to some extent, so I apologize in advance. I live my life 90%+ in DRAB, not because I'm ashamed of my crossdressing or sex partner preferences, but because it's easier to do so. I've been married 3x to gender women, and divorced/dissolved 3x, and have not had a significant, stable relationship with a Gay man (whether styled as Bi-sexual or not). I have, also come to the reluctant conclusion that I am not bisexual. I am a Bottom Gay Crossdresser. The last time I had sexual relations with a gender woman was 7 1/2 years ago, and although I've dated gender girls since I've never really felt sexually attracted to them. Thus, like Joann, I feel I could live with the right witty, educated, attractive, simpatico exclusively gay man if he was willing to be the Man in bed. Having been thrice "in love" seriously enough to get married, and having failed thrice, I am of the Tina Turner "just a second hand emotion" persuasion on Love, and am not looking for anything more involved than FWB. Of course, sometimes Love does develop from that despite the preconceptions of both parties.

I'm really not sure if I could give up my wigs, makeup, thigh-highs, garter belts, dresses, designer jeans, bra's and breast forms. I've purged too many times, and could never stay away.

The question I have is whether that type of guy who would make a commitment to a CD even looks at CD profiles online. I have TS profiles on Gay dot com and Adam for Adam, and nary a legitimate nibble from either site, just IM's from guys who are looking for some quick relief via the chat rooms. Not even the Adult Friend Finder guys who want me to drive 75 miles to meet them in a bar parking lot so we can "make love" in the bed of a pickup truck (But, darlin', it has a tonneau cover.")

It just seems to me that if the CD'ing is part of a person's core being, and if Gayness is part of a person's core being, how can you give up either for something as ephemeral as "Love."

Now, maybe a million dollar pre-nup would make me sing a different tune.

[maya1love]

"The question I have is whether that type of guy who would make a commitment to a CD even looks at CD profiles online. I have TS profiles on Gay dot com and Adam for Adam, and nary a legitimate nibble from either site, just IM's from guys who are looking for some quick relief via the chat rooms. Not even the Adult Friend Finder guys who want me to drive 75 miles to meet them in a bar parking lot so we can "make love" in the bed of a pickup truck (But, darlin', it has a tonneau cover.")"

Ingrid, I guess if you are looking for a friend with benefits (FWB), and not a serious relationship, then I think that you are doing the right thing by leading with the fact that you are a crossdresser in your profiles. As you've said before, you just have to weed through all of the men who aren't going to fit your bill and you will have some exhausting experiences as the one you described earlier. From time to time, you will have some good experiences too. An admirer's sexual orientation (whether gay, straight, or bi) isn't even relevant at that point --there's no need to restrict yourself to gay men. But, if we are talking about seeking a serious relationship, then I still think that leading with the fact that you are a crossdresser isn't the best way to go. There are so many men (and women) who don't know that they would be perfectly happy being in a committed relationship with a part-time crossdresser and they wouldn't know to look for it specifically in an online ad. Instead, they'd probably be scared off by it. Just my thoughts!

[ReineD]

But, if we are talking about seeking a serious relationship, then I still think that leading with the fact that you are a crossdresser isn't the best way to go. There are so many men (and women) who don't know that they would be perfectly happy being in a committed relationship with a part-time crossdresser and they wouldn't know to look for it specifically in an online ad. Instead, they'd probably be scared off by it.

Exactly! This is the same situation with CDers who are attracted to GGs. When the question is asked, members here including myself do suggest to CDers they should meet prospective partners as their guy selves, but then tell them about the CDing as soon as sparks start to fly. This is what happened between my SO and I. He told me the minute the relationship moved on to the next level and by that time I cared enough about him to want to learn more. I did not feel lied to. We were not in an established romantic relationship for years, or even for months before he told me. On the other hand, had he told me the very first time I met him before there was any real interest on my part, I likely would have mentally classified him as a "no go", just based on the little I did understand about CDers.

However, here's what's important: if a CDer (whether attracted to men or women) does live his life mostly male and does not plan on changing things drastically, then using the above approach is not lying. It is, in fact, being cautious about who he shares his innermost self with until he gets to know the person better. BUT ... if in the back of his mind he believes that eventually he will want to be full time and it is only a question of finding a partner, or securing a job in a non-discriminatory environment, or dealing with any other barriers before putting the wheels in motion, then I don't think it would be honest to start off a relationship representing himself in a gender that he does plan to discard in the future.

I guess maybe the difficult part is for a TG to explore him or herself fully and know beyond a shadow of a doubt who he or she is. If fact, it's a good idea for anyone to know themselves, what they want and what they need, before entering any relationship, whether or not there are gender issues. :)

[maya1love]

Good stuff, Reine! :) :) :)

[StarrOfDelite]

Maya, you and Reine are probably correct in thinking that proclaiming gay crossdresser status is not a good way to meet someone online. I've pretty much given up on the dating sites anyway. If they aren't hookup sites they don't have any categories for me. E.g. OKCupid and POF. I travel a lot, and spend down time at "home" in the Allegheny foothills, or in Manhattan which is where the home office is located. The gay scene in western PA and northeast OH is limited, and New York is just different from everywhere else. The lure of New York City is that no one bothers a person who looks and acts weird and it's easy to slap-dash some makeup, pull-on a wig and a bit of androgynous clothing, and go out and about without worrying about passability or being read because nobody cares. That attitude, however, arises from the fact that so many Manhattanites are weird and self-absorbed and really don't care about much except their own situation. Great people for conversation, partying, maybe FWB and/or move-in-together to share rent and romps, but generally not the kind who are willing to make a commitment. I haven't been to Toronto for years, but would guess it's the same sort of ambiance? Maybe I should relax my phobia about being a "joiner" and look at Tri-Ess et cetera.

Reine, I agree with a lot of what you wrote, but, based only on my own experience, knowing oneself beyond a shadow of a doubt is damnably hard to do. Sometimes I'll go to the fridge and stand staring into the freezer drawer for five minutes, while the open door alarm is beeping, trying to decide if I want to eat a pepperoni, a supremo or a three-cheese pizza for dinner, so that doesn't say much positive about my ability to make decisions about what I want and need from an inter-personal relationship.

[ReineD]

Reine, I agree with a lot of what you wrote, but, based only on my own experience, knowing oneself beyond a shadow of a doubt is damnably hard to do.

Yes it is hard, it does take a lot of courage, and it can take a lifetime to cut through all the rationalization. :)

So, I'll change it then to understanding ourselves enough about the important stuff to know where we want our lives to go.

How's that? :D

[Barbara Dugan]

Yes it is hard, it does take a lot of courage, and it can take a lifetime to cut through all the rationalization. :)

So, I'll change it then to understanding ourselves enough about the important stuff to know where we want our lives to go.

How's that? :D

Reine, you just sound like my therapist:doh:

[ReineD]

Oooops, Sorry! :p

I'll try to do better next time. :D

[StarrOfDelite]

Yes it is hard, it does take a lot of courage, and it can take a lifetime to cut through all the rationalization. :)

So, I'll change it then to understanding ourselves enough about the important stuff to know where we want our lives to go.

How's that? :D

The Jury instruction about "Beyond Reasonable Doubt" in criminal cases goes something to the effect that it is that level of certainty which you would need to make an important decision in your own life. That one sounds very much like yours, right?

As an aside which has nothing to do with nothing except my jangled brain channels, I once heard a judge analogize BRD as something like deciding to make an important, expensive purchase, which made me shiver as I contemplated jurors sending people to the gas chamber with the same degree of certainty with which they would choose between Ford, Chevy or Honda.

[TexasCD810]

Being an older married CD who's wife has no clue and and went "cold" several years ago I've been bi-curious about other CD's in the same situation. I really enjoy playing golf and would love to meet someone with the same interest but how do you do it? I'D skip the bi-curious part just to meet someone who enjoys "heels and hose", plays golf and spend some time together dressed as our alter personalities. I'm not very hopefull and your all right in your posts, it's very frustrating.

[StarrOfDelite]

Being an older married CD who's wife has no clue and and went "cold" several years ago I've been bi-curious about other CD's in the same situation. I really enjoy playing golf and would love to meet someone with the same interest but how do you do it? I'D skip the bi-curious part just to meet someone who enjoys "heels and hose", plays golf and spend some time together dressed as our alter personalities. I'm not very hopefull and your all right in your posts, it's very frustrating.

"North Texas" covers a whole lot of area, but if you're looking only for a friendly face to talk about CD'ing in general, I suggest you Google "Tri-Ess + Texas" and/or "GLBT + Support Group" and see what comes up. I would totally expect that there is a group in Lubbock, which is the home of a major university, and would guess that Amarillo and Midland/Odessa are also likely suspects.

[maya1love]

Hi everyone! Just thought I'd give all of you a quick update about me and the fellow that I'm dating. We are dating strong for two months! He's a really nice guy. We talk from time to time about my dressing and he has also seen pictures of me dressed. We have been intimate with me wearing some lingerie (that he bought me), but I have not fully dressed in front of him. He says that seeing me dressed fully will be something that will take time for him to get used to. Still, he does treat me like the girl in the relationship, and he enjoys courting me. It feels like a relationship that will come to a slow boil -- one where things will continue to evolve and get better over time. We shall see! I consider myself very lucky, and look forward to more closeness with him.

[ReineD]

^ I'm glad things are going well for you! :)

But I continue to shake my head in amazement when I think of the similarities between GGs and gay men when it comes to accepting the CDing.

[Badtranny]

^ I'm glad things are going well for you! :)

But I continue to shake my head in amazement when I think of the similarities between GGs and gay men when it comes to accepting the CDing.


Oh Reine, it's totally similar.

Gay men reject a feminine man because they aren't generally attracted to femininity and more importantly, they don't like the association. There has been a bit of a masculine backlash over the last couple of decades and a large segment of the population are actually embarrassed by the fems.

A quick scan of Craigslist will show you the most familiar refrain in the personals ads; No Fats, No Fems.

I've been with one or two of these muscle queens though and one thing I've come to believe is this; The feminine gay man is the truth.

[ReineD]

Gay men reject a feminine man because they aren't generally attracted to femininity and more importantly, they don't like the association.

But you know why this is confusing? My SO & I have gone to many drag shows over the years in gay clubs. The DQs are just sooo popular! The pretty ones seem to have long lines of adoring men drooling over them, rushing up to the stage to put a dollar in her clothes as she dances. And these are gay guys, at least I took it they are gay because they are at a gay club and also they are openly affectionate with each other. And after the shows, these men just flock around the performers, some of whom I gather are TS since they've had implants (but still presumably have their male parts). But, gay men have always left my SO alone. The alt club in town was one of the first places she went to when she began to go out in public, and she was pretty well ignored by everyone. She wasn't looking to pair up with anyone, but just be social. Granted her image is not at all the same as a DQ; she dresses like a regular GG, not a fetish CD.

Another question: what is the attitude among gay men over the more effeminate gay men who have the stereotypical mannerisms and who wear similar chothing as women ... the tight, tight pants, a lot of pink or bright colors, scarves, jewelry, etc. Is there a division among gay men in the say way there is in the TG community among TSs and CDs?

Thanks in advance for your response! :)

[Christa]

Maya... I'm so happy for you and your guy! The fact that you've already integrated dressing into your relationship is HUGE. Kudos to you for being open, honest and forthright with him about who you are. And kudos for him to being willing to push his own ideas of what it means to be with the FULL you.

Hopefully with lots of communication things will continue to progress.

As you know, I've been with my guy for 20 years (yes... we were infants when we met ;) ). If I had it to do all over again, I do it just like you're doing it now.

So best of luck, and keep us posted.

xoxo

Christa

[maya1love]

Hi everyone:

I had a question for all of you: As a gay man, are you out to your gay friends as a crossdresser? If not, why not? Do you feel that they would judge you? Gay men are usually seen as more accepting (and they generally are), but many of them may find it weird. I am out as a crossdresser to a few of my gay friends, and none of my straight friends. My gay friends are very nice about it, but we don't talk about it much (probably because I don't bring it up).

[GBJoker]

I'm surprised this thread had 9 pages, and I hadn't seen it yet... Weird... Anyways...

Nothing for me. There's no gay or bi guys near me... or GGs apparently... I don't know any of you do it, S, B or G...

[Badtranny]

Another question: what is the attitude among gay men over the more effeminate gay men who have the stereotypical mannerisms and who wear similar chothing as women ... the tight, tight pants, a lot of pink or bright colors, scarves, jewelry, etc. Is there a division among gay men in the say way there is in the TG community among TSs and CDs?


Masculinity is the prize among the majority of gay men. They gay community is divided and subdivided many ways not the least of which is butch and fem. The most maligned subdivision are the femmy queens who represent every stereotype in the book. Your average masculine gay man is embarrassed by the queens because he feels like he's worked hard to be accepted as a regular guy who happens to be gay and he doesn't want some limp wristed fairy to set the gay image back 25 years.

[seanmuscle]

Masculinity is the prize among the majority of gay men. They gay community is divided and subdivided many ways not the least of which is butch and fem. The most maligned subdivision are the femmy queens who represent every stereotype in the book. Your average masculine gay man is embarrassed by the queens because he feels like he's worked hard to be accepted as a regular guy who happens to be gay and he doesn't want some limp wristed fairy to set the gay image back 25 years.

In my opinion CDS at the very very least have a girly half where they like to dress up and be with a strong masculine man. The strength, warmth and protection. Feeling small and petite next to her man

[seanmuscle]

Its my opinion that you are still at least bi Reine because you like your man in dresses, heels and acting girly. You only like feminine features and behavior.

[ReineD]

^ LOL, Sean, I saw in the index that you had posted here, so I came in with a smile on my face and a box of [-]popcorn[/-] spinach ready to enjoy the fallout over whatever you had posted.

... and then saw that your post refers to me.

So ... I can only respond by repeating an all too familiar refrain in this forum: I am what I am, however you want to define it. :D

167866

[maya1love]

Hi folks...a gentle reminder to please stay on topic...

I'd definitely like to hear from some of the other gay male crossdressers about whether they are out to their gay friends. I think it's important to distinguish between what the gay community as a whole thinks about crossdressers, and what your friends think about you being a crossdresser. The friends that I have told have been just fine -- no problem. It is me who is holding back. Maybe that will change.

[Barbara Dugan]

I am not out to anybody close to me,not even to my gay brother.....I always ponder if I ever out myself it will be as gay or just a crossdresser or both

[ReineD]

Hi folks...a gentle reminder to please stay on topic...


Point well taken, lol. I was posting as a member. So now I guess I need to give myself a nuckle-rap as a mod. :gg:

[GBJoker]

I'd definitely like to hear from some of the other gay male crossdressers about whether they are out to their gay friends. I think it's important to distinguish between what the gay community as a whole thinks about crossdressers, and what your friends think about you being a crossdresser. The friends that I have told have been just fine -- no problem. It is me who is holding back. Maybe that will change.

I am out to every one I know. Only people that don't know are those who haven't asked. Which is why it bugs me so much that I can't meet any one...

EDIT: Slightly off topic, but I've always wondered this... We all know that occassionally there are GGs that are put off by the whole CD'ing thing... But does being out about being bisexual really send that strong or big of a red flag of some sort?