The Catholic Church

[Victoria Anne]

I just realized there is still one place I have not come out to , my church , a Catholic church . Are there any Catholic girls here that can offer any advise ? I am going full time on the 18Th and I have not said a word to my priest , I just did not think about it. Actually though I consider myself Catholic I am not but am going to request RCIA , any advise would be helpful , thank you.

Viccy

[Stephanie-L]

Not being Catholic myself (good little Luterin boy/girl here) I can't tell you the specifics but I would look at the type of priest you have. Is he one of the more liberal priests or is he on the conservative side in his sermons? He of course will be an educated man, but how does he stand on gender issues versus how does the Church stand. The Church's stand is not really very helpful, if I remember, they don't automatically condem you for being TG or TS or whatever, but you are supposed to suppress it, with God's help, similarly to their stand on gays. The only recomendation I can give you is talk to him privately, since you are going full time soon it isn't like you are hiding anything. The worst that will happen is that he will tell you that you shouldn't go fulltime, it's a sin, etc, and ask you not to come to church en femme. If that happens, go find another church that is more accepting, not easy I know if you have made friends, but that is part of the new life. I know that this probably isn't much help, and I would love to see advice from someone more on the "inside", but I hope it works out well for you....Stephanie

[RADER]

I am Catholic;
My brother had SRS about 20 years ago. The local priest told him now her that she dis formed her body
and that was a mortal sin that could not be reversed. In a sense excommunicated her from the church.
She then went to a new expanded church (Catholic) in the neighboring town. The priest never new that
she was not a GG, that lasted for about 5 years. Now she will have nothing to do with the Church, of any
type. She said she does not believe in a God of any type. Go figure from an Alter Boy.
I would say, go to confession, and ask for advice there. At least what is said in the confessional stays in
the confessional. Good Luck Rader

[Faith_G]

The official position of the Catholic church is as Rader stated. You could switch parishes and go stealth I suppose.

Anglican/Episcopal churches have a very similar liturgy and you are likely to find an open and affirming one nearby, that's another option.

[StephanieC]

Viccy,

Sorry, being Catholic myself I don't understand the issue if you are full-time. Why did you feel it necessary to "come out"? Why would gender matter?

Stephani

[abigailf]

The official position of the Catholic church is as Rader stated. You could switch parishes and go stealth I suppose.

Anglican/Episcopal churches have a very similar liturgy and you are likely to find an open and affirming one nearby, that's another option.

Wouldn't going stealth be lying, and thus sinful in itself.

Here is my point of view:

I am a believer in God, I just have a hard time swallowing religion. Too many atrocities have been committed in the name of religion.

However, I do consider myself catholic, raise my kids as Catholics and donate to the church, but I don’t practice regularly and I am not out to anyone at church. I know folks (some family) that go each week and they are more selfish and mean than most atheists I know. So going to church weekly does not make you a better person. Being a better person makes you a better person if that makes sense.

Ultimately, I decided to be as good a person I can be and if God wants to send me to hell for who he/she made me to be, then good for him/her.

So in answer to your question, only come out to your congregation if potentially being kicked out is an acceptable outcome. Otherwise, hush up and be the best damned closet church going crossdresser you can be. In the end, it is how you treat others that will earn your way into heaven, not how many times you went to church.

[LeannL]

Viccy,
You need to be more specific when you say you are going full time. Others have assumed that you would proceed through SRS. Up until that point, the Catholic Church would view you as "nothing different than a crossdresser" which is, by most priests that I have heard of, not a sin. If you plan on altering your reproductive organs than I suspect that the church would have a different view. However, I would find a 40 or 50 year old priest that is not in your parish and have a long talk with him. (Younger priests are tending to be more conservative than the older ones.) BTW, I hope you enjoy RCIA. My wife and I run the classes in our church.

Leann

[Faith_G]

Wouldn't going stealth be lying, and thus sinful in itself.If she's living as a woman, how is it dishonest to attend church as a woman? She has no obligation to disclose her history, that's nobody's business but hers and God's.

[Butterfly Bill]

Anglican/Episcopal churches have a very similar liturgy and you are likely to find an open and affirming one nearby, that's another option.

:iagree:The Episcopal Church has a service which is very much like the Mass, with the same gold crosses and vestments and music, but they are GLBT friendly and have woman priests (the head Bishop is female), are not hostile to evolution and science, and let me attend services in a dress in Oklahoma.

[kathtx]

:iagree:The Episcopal Church has a service which is very much like the Mass, with the same gold crosses and vestments and music, but they are GLBT friendly and have woman priests (the head Bishop is female), are not hostile to evolution and science, and let me attend services in a dress in Oklahoma.

The Episcopal Church has approached the brink of schism over LGBT issues (and other issues dividing liberals and conservatives), and so the GLBT friendliness of an Episcopal church will depend on the local diocese. Most cities will have at least one welcoming Episcopal congregation, though.

I'm nonreligious, but my wife is a very liberal Christian and a lesbian. Everywhere we've lived, including some *very* conservative parts of the USA (albeit always in university towns or high-tech centers, which tend to be tolerant), she's found a LGBT-welcoming church.

[Kelly Blaine]

In today's catholic church it depends on the priest. Some are strict and traditional and some are very liberal.

[Ms Deidre]

As a former Catholic, a usetabe as I refer to it, I ca tell you when it comes to tolerance the Catholic Churc has less than none. My one sister who s stil a staunch Catholic barey acknowledges my existence an when asked se says her "brother" is dead.I do know there is a group of gay Catholics called Dignity, I belive they have a website, so yo may wat to check there Persnally I lft the church many years ago but have found Christianity and God again but this time with a UCC church.

I wish you luck, peace, and jpy on your new journey and remember that just because some crazy German in the Vatican doesn't love you God does.

[Hope]

I am a member of the clergy in, lets say one of the first churches to split from the Roman church. While I am not Roman myself, I have a LOT of respect for the Roman church and consider several priests to be good friends, as well as colleagues.

I would go along with a LOT of what has been said here previously, and I would add the following:

Your reception will depend a LOT on the temperament of the bishop. Ultimately what the bishop says will be the law of the land. Some bishops are Uber conservative nuts, others are uber liberal. Don't think that just because your particular priest is liberal that you will be OK. If your bishop is conservative, you will have trouble. What will happen is some congregation member who is conservative will complain to the priest, and when the liberal priest shrugs his shoulders, (or better yet points out to the parishioner that God does not indeed hate fags) the member will complain to the bishop. The conservative bishop will summon your priest to the cathedral and the priest will come home with an earful, and bad news for you. The liberal bishop will shrug his shoulders, or perhaps introduce the parishioner to the new testament.

How do you know the temperament of your bishop? Read his statements online. Pay attention to the atmosphere of the church.

Chances are that unless you are in an extremely liberal diocese (and they certainly do exist) that you will receive a rather frosty reception.

If that is the case, do like many many many other Romans have done, and check out either the Episcopal church (as many folks here have suggested) or the ELCA Lutheran churches, both are liberal and sane, and ordain both women as well as gay and lesbian pastors. Both of the denominations are embroiled in some serious controversies and a bit of "civil war" about homosexuality right now. Both of the churches suffer with conservative congregations as well, congregations in which you will most certainly not be welcome. The nice thing is that if one Lutheran church is stultifyingly conservative, the one down the block is likely to be extraordinarily liberal. The Episcopal church, even though it is undergoing some controversy right now, is more uniformly liberal and accepting, though there are definitely conservative Episcopal churches as well. The particularly nice thing about the Episcopal church for recovering Romans is that the liturgy is very similar to the Roman liturgy. The Lutheran church used to be pretty good with worship, but in the past decade or so have stumbled with their worship practices. They have sort of tried to follow the nickels and noses of the evangelical movement by copying the worship stylings of the Evangelical movement... and it doesn't work very well. The churches that tend to follow what is referred to derisively as "traditional" worship tend to be the more "stuck in the mud" conservative churches.

There is also the MCC, the Metropolitan Community Church. The MCC is small in number, and they are somewhat hard to find if you are outside a major metropolitan area, but if you can find one, they were founded on the idea of being a GLBT friendly church. You will absolutely be welcome in any MCC congregation - though the liturgy could follow any number of formats including something you would recognize from the Roman church. One bonus, is that as a Trans girl, you will likely be the prettiest girl in the place - at least that is according to a friend of mine who attends a MCC congregation.

[abigailf]

If she's living as a woman, how is it dishonest to attend church as a woman? She has no obligation to disclose her history, that's nobody's business but hers and God's.

:) I was being facetious.

It's like the don't ask don't tell policy in the US military.

[Victoria Anne]

Thank you for all of your responses , I am not well know in the church here as my job only allows for visits that are few and far between to say the least . I will have to think about this for a while , in the mean time I will not say anything and if the priest says something to me I will just have to play it by ear though I fear it could mean being asked to leave . Thank you all again.

Viccy

By going full time I mean living as a woman fully and should finances provide I will have SRS .

[Traci Elizabeth]

I am dealing with the same church question myself. I was raised with one parent being Episcopal and the other Catholic as well as both sets of grand-parents, and attended both faithfully all through my childhood. As I child I never saw that much difference between the two except the Catholic churches where always larger and more ornate.

As an adult, I have attended many different churches as I have lived from one side of the globe to the other and in some locations churches were limited or non-existent but never with much frequency.

Lately, (if I am honest with myself, ever since I came out and started transitioning) I have had a deep desire to start attending a church regularly again. I called all sorts of denominational churches asking them if they welcome transsexuals. All but two I contacted including Catholic churches made it quite clear that I would not be accepted or welcomed. However, even in my small southern town, I actually found two LGBT accepting churches one of which is Episcopal.

So even if you are not accepted in your local Catholic church, there ARE other churches who will accept you with open arms.

[Jaclyn NM]

I have been a life long Catholic, and no where in any church litergy that I know of, does it say how you should dress. I mean let's face it, in the time of Christ, both sexes dressed essentially the same. I guess it depends more on your sexual orientation, in other words do you consider yourself a male or a female. And even with that, if you trully believe in God, as I do, God made us who we are, and that's all I need to know.

[ArleneRaquel]

According to the teachings of the Church, crossdressing is not a sin. If you dress conservatively, as a male or female, I see no reason why you cant attend Mass as your female personna. In my case, after living as a woman for nearly 7 years, I have started attending Mass dressed enfemme, some bad looks, but no Church reprimand.:)

[Faith_G]

There is also the MCC, the Metropolitan Community Church. The MCC is small in number, and they are somewhat hard to find if you are outside a major metropolitan area, but if you can find one, they were founded on the idea of being a GLBT friendly church. You will absolutely be welcome in any MCC congregation - though the liturgy could follow any number of formats including something you would recognize from the Roman church. One bonus, is that as a Trans girl, you will likely be the prettiest girl in the place - at least that is according to a friend of mine who attends a MCC congregation.Yes, MCC churches vary a lot when it comes to liturgy. Mine is just a few "signs & wonders" away from being Pentecostal, but there are others that are indistiguishable from Episcopal/Lutheran except for all the rainbow flags.

I will testify to being the prettiest girl in the room - the dominant culture in the lesbian community does not value feminine gender expression. Lesbians are afraid to look pretty just like poor kids are afraid to look smart in school. It's really sad. :(

[AKAMichelle]

Personally I don't why you just don't go to church however you want. You don't go very often and you might not even be recognized.

[Beth-Lock]

I guess I am facing this sort of dilemma, too. I hate to think I am going to a church where I am not welcome, even though I only go ocassionally, since it is not my home church.
I got a sort of strange look from just one young guy when I went to a Catholic church as a man but wore a pink (men's), shirt. When I eventully went as a woman, wearing a skirt, etc., I had no problem, and the priest even shook my hand without apparently noticing anything.
I guess it would be vain of me if i said I thought I was the best looking girl at the service, but I did notice that women wearing skirts or dresses were very rare.
As for getting kicked out or excommunicated, I bet if all the folks who do, went to church wearing a sign around their neck saying that they used birth control, there would be a mass excommunication that would serve no one, (except possibly the devil). There is however a tradition in the church for not telling when you are not asked specifically, (so you are not really lying), and it is called casuistry I think.
I guess it is at best a gray area. Best not to make an issue of it and hope the church will move forward on such issues, some day.
I do enjoy the services at the Catholic church, though I am not a Catholic. I think the posts on this matter provide enough information that I need not discuss it with a priest.

[Melody Moore]

Ha, Viccy... you should never get me started about the Catholic church because I harbour lots of resentment for what I consider IS the cruellest church on earth... I can NEVER forgive them for how Catholics have messed up my life & caused so much shame & guilt which is why I repressed my true gender identity for so any years. So why should I care? Fact is I really care about you Viccy, but I dont care for the catholic church at all because I think you will only end up hurt - how dare they even consider themselves men of God & Christians?

I was born a true hermaphrodite and assigned as a male in a catholic ran hospital of all places soon after birth. I was then raised as a catholic & was also sent to private catholic schools from Primary School - I was even an alter boy. My own father beat the living crap out of me for doing girlie things including getting into my mother's make up & dressing up & identifying as a girl at the age of 6. I was also singled out & abused by catholic brothers & priests during the entire first year of high school (Year 8). The abuse was that bad that year I started playing truant & fell so far behind in my grades compared to my peers. I was bullied a lot by other students, but they never did a thing to protect me from any of it. I even remember when the Headmaster telling my mother that it was 'in my best interest if I didn't come back to that school the following year. So I was then taken out of that school and sent to another Catholic ran Private Boys School of all places where I complied but felt very awkward. This is where I finished my schooling and left at the junior level (Year 10). But I failed most subjects in my Junior Certificate because of what happened in year 8. Is it any wonder why I had so much shame & guilt to get over? I had totally repressed my true gender identity at the age of 16.

A lot of the stigma with transsexuals like us & the other gender/sexually diverse people in society can be directly linked to the Catholic church. I remember my sex education classes in year 10 boys school there was no mention at all about the gender/sexually diverse people out there in society - so there was no mention at all about transsexualism or those like me that were born XXY or hermaphrodite. So is it really a sin now to fix up the damage done by the cathloic butchers who tried to play God with my body?

If you are determined to stay in the Catholic church, then I believe you should take the advice of others & hush up and dont ever tell anyone because I really believe they will excommunicate you if they ever found out. But why even live another lie? Isn't that why we come out in the first place? Personally I would look for another church where you wont ever be judged for telling the truth about your past life and where you will be accepted for living your life as your true self.

Thats my 2 cents for what it's worth.

[Teri Jean]

Vicci religion is a sticky subject for many who are transgendered so there will be a lot of advice one way or another. It is your right to believe as you wish. For me I have studied and practiced under a few different houses so here is my take.

God created man and woman in his "image". Now we know from our studies God is neither man or woman but a "spirit creature, correct so if God created us in his image we must be talking about the spirit or soul of each person. And since there is so many varieties of colors, ethnic groups, sizes and shapes as well as physical differences we are surely not physically in his image.

Then if our bodies don't match our inner self then we should be able to correct a physical issue. It is the soul that God is concerned about. So if the clergy of your house of worship cannot understand this then I am truely sorry for them. JMO

[Chickhe]

I'm always perplexed by the argument about altering your body... what about people who get tatoos, ear-rings, dental work, breasts?.... gee wiz. Why is there a need to officially tell your church? If you believe in the religion, just go and be yourself...is the priest going to chase you down and tell you that you are not welcome?...I think not. If you need to, tell the priest it was a message from God that told you to do it... how can he argue with that? Anyhow, personally, I'm Catholic only because I was raised that way, I seldom go to church, but I believe in the morals/code of ethics for the most part... not so much joy in showing up every Sunday and then getting cut-off in the parking lot on the way out by the same people who shook your hand and said 'god bless you'...