Major Breakthrough

[AKAMichelle]

My wife and I are in the middle of a divorce and a few days ago I asked her to go to a halloween party with me. See we are friends and everything on that front is working out fine, but our marriage is still headed for divorce.

When I asked her to the party, she said yes. I quickly made her understand that I was going dressed and she still said yes. So yesterday I asked her again because I didn't want to go down the path if she wasn't serious. So again she said yes and we went to the halloween store to pick out our costumes. I decided on an angel costume and she settled on the sexy devil costume. We are going as the irony girls since she thinks that I am so wicked for being a cd'er. We didn't buy the costumes yet because we were low on money until next week. So next week I will go buy the costumes and we will be off to the races.

This is where the story really gets strange. My wife has always fussed and complained about my cd'ing. She has wanted nothing to do with it and now within one week and no prodding she is different. Last night after I went grocery shopping with her, while in the store we were talking about our costumes. I asked what earrings and necklace I should get. She said that I could borrow hers. I almost passed out with shock. I couldn't believe my ears. She offered to loan me her earrings and necklace. Then we got to her costume and decided she should get some red tiered earrings. She is going to have to find her some red shoes for the night. She told me that I needed silver shoes for the night. So last night when I got home, I went online while talking to her on the phone about our costumes and was looking for the shoes. So I found some with a 2" heel and 2 tops at the same time. So there I was talking to my wife about clothes and what goes with what. So I ordered the shoes and tops which should arrive next week. So now I have my costume figured out and we found her shoes on ebay last night. The night is beginning to shape up as a fun night even before it happens.

Last night we decided that since the party won't have supper we should get a group together and go to dinner out. She said that would be fine as long as it wasn't just the 2 of us. She doesn't like being the center of attention and she says that since I don't pass very well she will be looked at very differently. She made a strange statement that she would feel a lot better about going out together if I passed better. This was a very strange turn of events. She has never even thought of going anywhere with me, but here she is talking about it. She has flat out said before that she wouldn't go anywhere with me dressed. She never wanted to see me dressed and now as we prepare for a divorce she is willing to go out with me dressed.

I am very confused at the moment. While cd'ing wasn't the reasons for our divorce, it was just one more issue to find a solution for. I have no idea what to think of this but I am just going to go with it.

We have talked so much in the last few days about things. I have told her about using my own hair now. That I bought a wiglet and blended it with my hair. She knows that I run a meetup group here in Denver called Mile High Transgendered. She knows that I have paid a lot more attention to her over the years because I know thing about dressing and reference it by something that she wore. This is not what I expected my divorce to be like. I never expected us to become better friends after the divorce.

I am just in shock and don't know what to think.

[Elizabeth Ann]

Michelle,

I have never been through a divorce, but I am thinking back over situations where I have "disengaged," whether professional or personal. Perhaps at this point, she has less of herself invested in the relationship, and can thus afford to be more generous in her behavior toward you. You are getting a divorce. It is not about her anymore. And since she obviously still cares enough to wish your happiness, she can be more tolerant without such a cost to her own self image. Just a guess on my part.

Liz

[Jodygurl]

Gee, Michelle, I think I heard a lot of hope in that post. Maybe she's letting you know that she can work out her reluctance on the CD part as a start to working out other problems.

After I thought over my reaction I began to wonder; "what does Michelle want?"

Anyway, enjoy the moment on Haloween.

Jody

[suchacutie]

There are so many possibilities, and you'll never really know unless she shares her deep thoughts with you. Let me offer one that I don't remember seeing here:

Is it possible: Now that she is, effectively, learning how to be friends with you with no strings attached, that she is in the situation of "starting over". Isn't is almost as if the two of you are meeting for the first time since there are no strings attached unless you now attach them? Is she seeing this time as if you were dating? Isn't she free to relearn who you are, especially since she can be sure that you are completely open with her since you have nothing to lose?

Human beings are most certainly complex.

No matter what...all my hopes for clarity!

tina

p.s. might this be a time to ask her what she thinks you could do to help you pass better? might she be willing to help how? wouldn't that be interesting?

[Carroll]

Not so strange. My ex-wife divorced me, in part, to my cding, but now she she thinks it cool I do it. She just couldn't stand being married to a cd, but easily could be friends

["Mary"]

I can't make any sense of it either. But if it's better quality of life - enjoy it.

[Sophie86]

Would you be willing to try again? If so, it might be worth asking her (after Halloween) whether that's what she wants. Maybe she would rather keep it at best friends, but it would be a shame to keep going with the divorce if both of you are thinking that you'd like to stay together.

[PretzelGirl]

I would lean more towards she is learning to be friends. Maybe among all the other issues the two of you had, she just couldn't handle adding CDing in there. So now that the other issues are being "wiped clean" by the divorce, she is finding that she can deal with your dressing as a friend. Which does make it interesting in that some feel that CDing was a death blow to their marraige and it is sounding like that things were all ready past the point of no return and there was no room to deal with CDing. Now that there is room, she may be working on her acceptance.

[Tommie Rae]

Sometimes the best marriages are between people who are really good friends. I think I would take this development as a very positive step in healing at least one of the problems in your marriage. And maybe think about the other things that went wrong and see if those can be healed also. That doesn't mean the divorce might not happen, but at least you will have some positive grounding with someone to whom you gave your heart and your life for quite a few years.

[SherriePall]

I have said it before: CDing is all relative. The closer you're related, the worse it is.

[Inna]

I am in a similar situation, I have divorced 3 years ago but we have stayed together because of our kids. I have spent much less time at home since divorce to give my ex bit more room and sort of personal freedom. Since then we have become stronger friends then before when married, I believe that sense of personal space and no longer depending on each others mood and disposition adds to acceptance and ease in relationship. Don't be fooled though, every time I would spend longer at home tensions grew, and memories of tough times returned.

[Rhonda Jean]

My divorce couldnt have been more different. Consider yourself VERY LUCKY! Sounds like if this was someone that you just recently met you'd wand to marry her!

[Tasha McIntyre]

Michelle, this could be the NIMBY effect (Not in my back yard).

It's where people like to consider themselves generally free thinking and understanding, until it effects them.

My wife is a classic example. She was very understanding when one two of our friends (one male and one female) came out as gay, and one other high school friend came out on facebook as transgendered. This gave me further confidence to finally come out to her. Suddenly my CDing is repulsive and she doesn't want to ever see or hear anything about it.

Now that you and your wife are seemingly seperated, her sudden acceptance may be because she can observe from a safe distance, rather than something she has to live with.

Tash

[AKAMichelle]

To speak frankly I was very confused but I enjoyed the acceptance. The more I thought about it the more suspicious I became of her motives. So today I asked her and she said that if we were going to be friends then she needed to accept this about me. Odd that she never felt that way while together. I still don't know what to think. I asked her some more questions about her williness and she said that if she is ever going to have to see me dressed then she would rather it be halloween. Plus she said that since we are getting a divorce she feels a sense of freedom to see me that way since it won't matter what it affects in her mind about me during sex. If you aren't having sex and not going to then it doesn't matter.

She is willing to meet other cd'ers as long as nobody is dressed at the time. So she accepted an offer by a friend of mine for our wives to meet on a double date with us in guy mode. I think I may have gained a friend who accepts in the long run. It will make it easier for me to tell her things since she already knows everything, but it is best that we end the marriage. We have been married for 27 years and separated 8 times over the years for a total of 3+ years. We fight over the little things and not the big ones. We definitely want 2 different things in our lives and I have no idea how we could blend those together with such strong opinions.

We have definitely grown in 2 different directions and we are on different paths now. So I guess I will just have to accept her explanation as is and move forward with our lives. I do have to say that I am much happier not living with her. I didn't use to smile and lately all of my pictures are with me smiling. So something is going right if I am that happy and content.

[Ann Thomas]

I'm glad to see you found the answers so far. I went through similar things regarding different issues than CDing during my divorce 10 years ago. My ex then used that information gained during the opening up time to enforce some really horrible things at the divorce itself. Kids were invloved and she had stipulations about certain things attached to threats, so I was forced to closet a good portion of who I am starting from when the divorce was final until her sudden death last year in a car accident.

Be very circumspect. Think, how could her learning this new information affect family relations, job, housing, church, social groups, etc.

For me, I laid my own minefield.

All the best for you!

Hugs,
Ann

[Lucy_Bella]

Hi Michelle,
My wife acts the same way sometimes but still doesn't want to meet Lucy at all.. She is persitant that it never happens it will emotinally scar her for life..

Please remember she is your wife and I am sure even tho going through a divorce she still loves you very much.. I think you are heading the right direction with expressing to your wife that Michelle is a part of you, but please do not forget that its important to her that she still has the male side of you around as well..

Yoou seem very responsable about your cd'ing to know that it will never be placed above or before the ones you love so no need for me to comment anymore about that. I can understand that she doesn't want to be out with you in public at this time because she is right she will be the center of attention and maybe sometime as she gets to know Micelle better she will adjust and go out some where with you a little less descret.
Have fun at your party!! It sounds like a blast and the costumes are perfect I love the concept!! Enjoy!!

[eluuzion]

Let me begin by saying my opinions are biased by my personal experiences, just like the rest of the human race.

Divorce is an adversarial arena where both parties have intimate knowledge of each other’s strengths and weaknesses. We all know the rule about emotions having no place when making business decisions. But what do we do during a divorce, when the whole game is comprised of emotions? Answer…listen to your attorney, lol.

Hey, I always like to play doctor. I also like to play lawyer every once in awhile just for variety…let’s begin…

...talking to your wife here...

Ok Mrs. AKA Michelle’s wifey, soon to be “ex-y”…
Your goal is to spend the least amount possible on legal fees and to maximize your awarded share of the total joint assets of the marriage at the end of the game, right?

Even when both parties enter the divorce process with amicable negotiation intentions, there is typically a point somewhere along the line, when it disintegrates into a war. So, the longer you can maintain a peaceful and cooperative relationship with your partner, the more you stand to gain.

Thus, the objective is to resolve as many settlement issues as possible before communication breaks down. This is accomplished by fostering a “friendly” approach with your partner and first discussing only those issues that you know will not “push his button”. The longer you can keep him happy, the more issues you will resolve on your own, and the more money you both will save on attorney fees. The other factor is the longer you keep him “friendly”, the more he is likely to be willing to “give you” and “agree” to in your favor.

In addition to being “friendly”, you should also identify some joint assets that you really have no attachment or interest in. When negotiating, these items will be the ones you will “give up” or “trade” in exchange for something else (that you really do want.) (It appears you are giving up something you cherish, when you actually are not). Just a little negotiation strategy…:thumbsup:

So, your first assignment Mrs. AKA Michelle…is to go home and be as friendly as you can with AKA Michelle…stroke his ego…whatever it takes to keep him happy as long as possible. Because once one side strikes a nerve with the other…the battle is on and things get ugly and expensive to resolve….

Ok, our time is up for today…see you tomorrow…don’t forget to bring your checkbook…

************************************************** ********

There, just playing devils advocate…

So, the question remains…”is it (she) REAL, or is it (she) MEMOREX (hidden agenda)?

…”only her hairdresser knows for sure”… :battingeyelashes:

Then again…maybe she just magically “changed” overnight….hey, anything is possible on the Internet….hehehe

That is just my 2 cents worth…you owe me a penny:heehee:

Good Luck…

[anouk]

Maybe the situation is a bit similar to mine, though we are not divorcing. My wife has pointed out very clearly that she wants to have her husband with her most of the time. Anouk is her "best friend" to go shopping and talk about ladies things.

When I told her about Anouk and we were in the middle of the crisis, she wanted to see Anouk as soon as she was ready to it (maybe even sooner, she was not even sure if she was...). Afterwards she told me it was the crucial thing in proceeding our new life and pointed out every SO of the crossdresser should do it, to avoid unneccessary fears and false beliefs.

[Dana Garrett]

Sorry, I cant hold my mouth shut, I tried. You're there and I am not But, Please pay attention 007, Divorce is WAR. Name, Rank and Serial# only. Even painted lips can sink ships.

[Rhonda Jean]

Exactly what Ann, Eluuzion, and Dana said.

[AKAMichelle]

In my case everything is settled. We are waiting to file the paperwork because of some personal reasons, but the division of the property has already happened. Everything of hers has been changed into her name. We aren't fighting about anything divorce related. We have been fighting about the reasons for the divorce though. I have told her most of the reasons but not the most important one to me. No it wasn't cd'ing. In fact none of the reasons were cd'ing. She kept picking at me until I finally snapped last week and wrote her an email with the last remaining reason spelled out. It was a tough one for her to refute since it had her name all over it. It wasn't an affair or anything like that, but it was the worst to me. I knew that after I told her this reason our friendship would change forever. I expected her to barely talk with me, but I got the exact opposite.

She and I talked for several hours and we have talked a lot more since then. I have been able to get past some of the resentment I have felt toward her for years in one week. Then she hits me with sudden acceptance and ready to go to a halloween party. I have no idea where it will lead but not a repaired marriage. There are too many other issues which i have remembered once I got over the confusion. We are on different paths in our lives and she won't support me on mine. I am not transitioning or anything but my career is going to change some and she won't help. She only wants to complain and stop me from that path and I am determined to move into that direction. I believe that it was the path in which I was meant to be in all my life.

I have been working in that area some and the smiles are all over my face. It doesn't matter how I am dressed, I am finally happy about the direction of my life. My wife is just being a friend but I can't understand the sudden change. Unless the email made that much of a difference. I just don't understand, but at least I am not confused anymore. For a fleeting second I thought about getting back with her and then the other issues started. I remembered what our marriage has been like for 27 years with 8 separations for a total of 3+ years total. The 3 years we were separated were some of the best years of my life. I am definitely happier without being married to her but the transition from married life to single life is a little strange at times. I think we will remain friends but I will always have to limit her information.

Thanks for all you help. It helped me get some footing because I felt like I was in quick sand. I was so stunned and shocked that I couldn't think. I am much better now and it appears that my situation has helped a friend of mine who recently came out to his wife. I just got a promising email so we will have to see what happens next.

[MsJanessa]

Let me begin by saying my opinions are biased by my personal experiences, just like the rest of the human race.

Divorce is an adversarial arena where both parties have intimate knowledge of each other’s strengths and weaknesses. We all know the rule about emotions having no place when making business decisions. But what do we do during a divorce, when the whole game is comprised of emotions? Answer…listen to your attorney, lol.

Hey, I always like to play doctor. I also like to play lawyer every once in awhile just for variety…let’s begin…

...talking to your wife here...

Ok Mrs. AKA Michelle’s wifey, soon to be “ex-y”…
Your goal is to spend the least amount possible on legal fees and to maximize your awarded share of the total joint assets of the marriage at the end of the game, right?

Even when both parties enter the divorce process with amicable negotiation intentions, there is typically a point somewhere along the line, when it disintegrates into a war. So, the longer you can maintain a peaceful and cooperative relationship with your partner, the more you stand to gain.

Thus, the objective is to resolve as many settlement issues as possible before communication breaks down. This is accomplished by fostering a “friendly” approach with your partner and first discussing only those issues that you know will not “push his button”. The longer you can keep him happy, the more issues you will resolve on your own, and the more money you both will save on attorney fees. The other factor is the longer you keep him “friendly”, the more he is likely to be willing to “give you” and “agree” to in your favor.

In addition to being “friendly”, you should also identify some joint assets that you really have no attachment or interest in. When negotiating, these items will be the ones you will “give up” or “trade” in exchange for something else (that you really do want.) (It appears you are giving up something you cherish, when you actually are not). Just a little negotiation strategy…:thumbsup:

So, your first assignment Mrs. AKA Michelle…is to go home and be as friendly as you can with AKA Michelle…stroke his ego…whatever it takes to keep him happy as long as possible. Because once one side strikes a nerve with the other…the battle is on and things get ugly and expensive to resolve….

Ok, our time is up for today…see you tomorrow…don’t forget to bring your checkbook…

************************************************** ********

There, just playing devils advocate…

So, the question remains…”is it (she) REAL, or is it (she) MEMOREX (hidden agenda)?

…”only her hairdresser knows for sure”… :battingeyelashes:

Then again…maybe she just magically “changed” overnight….hey, anything is possible on the Internet….hehehe

That is just my 2 cents worth…you owe me a penny:heehee:

Good Luck…
Well I am a lawyer and a divorcee (some 20 years ago) and I agree with this post---be very careful about an estranged spouse who suddenly wants to be your new best friend and suddenly is ok with your dressing----your relationship at this point in time is adversarial and she may have some ulterior motives--(mine actually threatened to expose my cding to others---wish she would have tried that now---after 20 years I have learned a thing or two) anyway it may be just her way of saying lets be friends but my advice is to keep your guard up.

[AKAMichelle]

Well I am a lawyer and a divorcee (some 20 years ago) and I agree with this post---be very careful about an estranged spouse who suddenly wants to be your new best friend and suddenly is ok with your dressing----your relationship at this point in time is adversarial and she may have some ulterior motives--(mine actually threatened to expose my cding to others---wish she would have tried that now---after 20 years I have learned a thing or two) anyway it may be just her way of saying lets be friends but my advice is to keep your guard up.

I appreciate the response. I let my guard down because I was so caught off guard that I couldn't figure out what was happening. But after some reflection I realize that things are not always what they appear. But the biggest thing I realized was that I still want the divorce regardless of the motive.

P.S. Guard is back up. :D

[JulieC]

P.S. Guard is back up. :D

I agree it should be. That said, be careful that your guard does not convey a sense of distrust. That is, if you want to maintain this friendship.

The dynamics of your relationship with your soon to be ex wife have changed. You've commented on that, and I think you understand that to a degree. But, much of your confusion is based in that basic reality. Your wife said it; she's disconnected from you. That makes it much easier for her to reach out to you on something she doesn't personally like.

Also, the e-mail you sent her detailing exactly the big reason why you wanted a divorce; that sort of thing can clear a slate. Suddenly, everything is on the table. It's all out in the open. Just that by itself can make a HUGE difference, whether you stay together or not.

[BRANDYJ]

I appreciate the response. I let my guard down because I was so caught off guard that I couldn't figure out what was happening. But after some reflection I realize that things are not always what they appear. But the biggest thing I realized was that I still want the divorce regardless of the motive.

P.S. Guard is back up. :D

I have read this thread several different occasions since Michelle started it. I guess it saddens me since I am a die hard romantic that never likes to see any couple breakup. But being one that has been divorced twice, I know that sometimes we are better off...both parties.
I am friends with my ex-wife. Crossdressing was never an issue for us. She was very supportive. We simply grew apart over the last 7 years of marriage.

But still when I first read this thread, the romantic in me was hoping this could be the start of a reconciliation. So it's sad to me to see it's not going that way. I wish you much happiness Michelle, regardless of the outcome.

[EllieOPKS]

I agree it should be. That said, be careful that your guard does not convey a sense of distrust. That is, if you want to maintain this friendship.

The dynamics of your relationship with your soon to be ex wife have changed. You've commented on that, and I think you understand that to a degree. But, much of your confusion is based in that basic reality. Your wife said it; she's disconnected from you. That makes it much easier for her to reach out to you on something she doesn't personally like.

Also, the e-mail you sent her detailing exactly the big reason why you wanted a divorce; that sort of thing can clear a slate. Suddenly, everything is on the table. It's all out in the open. Just that by itself can make a HUGE difference, whether you stay together or not.

Just my point of view - Sometimes people don't realize what they had until they lose it. The seperation may have put things in a different perspective where she doesn't want to give up a total relationship with you. But I agree with others that caution is the operative word right now. After everything is inked you can be a little more relaxed.

[AKAMichelle]

I have read this thread several different occasions since Michelle started it. I guess it saddens me since I am a die hard romantic that never likes to see any couple breakup. But being one that has been divorced twice, I know that sometimes we are better off...both parties.
I am friends with my ex-wife. Crossdressing was never an issue for us. She was very supportive. We simply grew apart over the last 7 years of marriage.

But still when I first read this thread, the romantic in me was hoping this could be the start of a reconciliation. So it's sad to me to see it's not going that way. I wish you much happiness Michelle, regardless of the outcome.

I too am a romantic. I was hesitant about the outcome but now realize that the marriage is over but the friendship may be just starting again.


Just my point of view - Sometimes people don't realize what they had until they lose it. The seperation may have put things in a different perspective where she doesn't want to give up a total relationship with you. But I agree with others that caution is the operative word right now. After everything is inked you can be a little more relaxed.

I don't think it had any effect. The email might have cleaned the slate and allowed to start over as friends. We have been separated 8 times in our marriage and 2 years ago we were separated for 1 year. Now we have been separated for 5 1/2 months. We haven't ever talked about getting back together. In fact she is attending a divorce support group with her church.

[Amanda22]

Michelle, I can't offer advice because I only know about my own experiences. I appreciate you sharing such a personal and sensitive experience. It's my impression that this divorce is a positive thing for both of you. Yes, it is sad when something finally ends, but you have a whole life ahead of you and new opportunities on the horizon. If you wish to find another partner in the future, I know you will be very upfront with her about crossdressing and she will in turn be very supportive. That's what you deserve and I think that will happen for you. Take good care of Michelle, now and aways.

[Miss Misery]

Hi Michelle,

As many have said here in this and other threads, the relationship (friend or married) is/was between you and your wife. That means that you 2 know each other better than any of us. Unfortunately, that can also cloud your vision as well. In the end, you have to rely on your knowledge/experience with your spouse to know what to expect. Some people do have ulterior motives, but not everyone. It's a bear to get burned but it's also a terrible thing to suspect everyone's out to get you (hard to form relationships that way).

So, is that wishy-washy enough for you? Just like when we talk about telling a spouse or SO, take it slow and expect little - it's harder to be disappointed that way.

Really - all the best!! Happy Halloween (Are you going w/ a halo for your costume?)

[ReineD]

Congratulations Michelle! :)

I for one would love to be friends with my ex, and not for self-serving reasons. I just can't wipe out all the good in the last 30 years and pretend it never existed. He is the father of my sons, and there are aspects of his personality that I like, and always have.

We can't be friends, however. He is still very much on the warpath. :sad:

[Tara1967]

Michelle, I wish nothing but the best for you. I can surely relate to your confusion of your wife's sudden changes in her stance on your cd'ing, though it wasn't the major issue for the divorce. I would be very careful. I have been divorced 2 times. One five year marriage and a 16 year marriage. I have coined my own phrase for around 20 years, and that is "you don't know your wife 'till you divorce her". You may be seeing that transpiring right now. Isn't her behavior now so out of her norm? Sometimes ex wives want to hold on to a part of their husbands in any from they can get. Just continue right now with extreme caution and reveal nothing more to her that she didn't already know for she may do a 180 deg on you and begin to contest the agreements already set forth between the 2 of you.
I applaude to each their own, even ex spouses that want to remain freinds, but personally I can't understand it. But congratulations to both of you for amicably reaching a decison for the best interest of each of you. Also, it takes 2 to make a sweet marriage,, and I think likewise,, it takes 2 to make a sweet divorce. Approach the divorce with caution..........(love & respect) Tara