Liars, can they be trusted?

[Megan Thomas]

Hi everyone,

I have a situation to deal with which prompted me to pose the following for discussion. As people who crossdress for one reason or another we are often forced to deceive or lie to either cover our tracks or protect those we care about. Now i have a real aversion to lies and deceit despite being a crossdresser who has lied and deceived for reasons mentioned above.

As i approach middle age I have really looked at myself long and hard and decided I want to transition mtf, to be who I really feel i am. A case of no longer lying to myself, never mind anyone else. In doing so I've had to be brutally honest with myself and my SO (to start with) who knows and is fully supportive. My problem is I have a friend who has lied and deceived me in recent times, probably with good intent, but I don't know that for certain. This friend has been supportive and helpful with my gender issues but I now have undisputable proof of their deceit and I'm finding it hard to ignore.

On one hand if i kick this person into touch and end the friendship i will lose someone who I have valued and enjoyed spending time with. On the other hand if I don't I will never trust them again and feel I have let myself be walked over, setting a standard for the future so to speak. I really can't ignore their lies and they have continued to lie when i gave them an opportunity to not lie and come clean without loss of face.

I have pretty much decided how to deal with my own situation but i'd love to hear the views and experiences of others.


Does being a closeted crossdresser make you more or less accepting of being lied to?
Do you feel a pang of guilt when you lie or decieve to cover your tracks?
Would you dump a CD supportive friend or SO for lying?


And feel free to answer any or all the questions, plus make any additional points as you see fit. What i hope people will avoid is saying it depends on the lies or deceit involved. Where does the line get drawn for you? :)

[MsJanessa]

darling youre going to have to provide some context before this question can be answered--what did your friend lie about and to who and what were the consequences---after all most of us tell lies now and again--hopefully we don't do in cases where it is important to tell the truth.

[Lucy_Bella]

Being lied to ? Depends...Was it for cheating reasons and self gain? No I would never trust this person again.. Was it to protect you or avoid harm to you in anyway ,like looking after you..Yes I would trust this person.

I use to feel quilt .. I no longer do unless I am one of those who see's a cd'er on the street with his buddies and join in on the ribbing..

I never dump anyone they tend to dump me.. I would dump someone for the first answer I gave other than that I value any relationship I get ..

[Lynn Marie]

Once you know a person is lying to you, then it is pretty automatic to never again trust them. How can you tell when they are telling the truth? So you are forced to negate everything they say, or at the very least take everything they say with a grain of salt. So in the end, we just avoid them because we have no time for their BS.

Of course all this reflects back on us who have to lie to conceal the truth about ourselves that we rightly feel most folks just don't or won't understand. It's a bit of a dichotomy isn't it.

[Kathryn Martin]

I would be very interested to know what motivated the friend to lie. Was it a little white lie or a serious lie. I find that not telling everyone or anyone matters that are private is not really lying. So my not telling my social environment about my crossdressing is really neither a lie nor deceit. There is no need to always say everything to everybody. For this reason I am neither deceitful nor am I lying. If asked point blank I will tell the truth. I don't like being lied to when it is an active telling of something the speaker knows is untrue. And I will always call them on it if and when I find out. The last question is really a matter of each individual situation. I take people at their face value, and in doing so I must make sure that what may have been the truth one day may no longer be so the next. It is in short a contextual question.

Kathryn

[Asako]

Hrmm...I can't really say one way or another. Though, it sounds a good deal personal. I have had a situation like that where someone who I called "brother" because I trusted them so much only to find that they had lied and used me for 6 years in minuscule ways that made sense when each lie was told but when I measured it all in the form of a big picture...his lies became apparent. I was often a consultant of his for relationship issues or the semi-occasional "how do I get girl XYZ away from (male organ) BF?" He had a way of spinning things in a good light even though my sensibility told me things didn't fit right like he was describing. I would sometimes go along with it but still carrying reservations and look out for myself. In the end, I couldn't trust him once I realized the lies were there. I don't know how long this person has lied to you Jo but I do know that I made the right decision to remove the guy from my life.

[kellycan27]

So it's ok for you to lie because of your circumstance, but not ok for someone else to lie? Sorry, kind of the pot calling the kettle black if you ask me.

[Elizabeth Ann]

Jo,
Of course none of us know the circumstances, but it is a little ironic to display this level of intolerance. You made it clear that you see the irony, but is your world really so black and white that one failing and you cast the person out? I have friends with many faults, as do my friends with me. One friend never follows through on promises, and I have learned not to depend on him. I have friends I don't completely trust, but have qualities that I hold dear. I'm not a religious person, but weren't we taught to hate the sin, but love the sinner?
Liz

[Chickhe]

I think it depends on the motivation. In your case, it is to protect yourself...self defense if you will. If their lie is intended to gain something or create an advantage over you, then it is wrong and this person is not a friend. So, you have to decide how much damage their lie will cause you and weigh that against the value of their friendship.

I was wronged by someone once and I forgive them, but I will never trust them again...I'm not stupid. ;-)

[Sophie86]

I get that you're not looking for commentary on your particular situation, but it's hard for me to state a general rule because I do believe that context counts for a lot when judging someone. Below is the best I can do.

In general, I have a real aversion to being lied to. I recognize, however, that some types of lying are necessary. For example, lying to protect personal information that is no one else's business is permissible. It could be your own business, or you might know something about someone else, information with which they have entrusted you, that you have an obligation to keep secret. If you're asked a pointblank question about it, simply refusing to answer can reveal everything.

"Hey, is Bob a crossdresser?"
"I can't answer that."
"Aha!"

It's best to lie in that circumstance. I feel zero guilt about lying to people to keep my secret, with the one exception being my wife. Spouses do have a right to know, because it can affect the long-term prospects of a marriage. I felt much better after telling her.

Other lies that can be okay are the ones you tell when you don't want to hurt a person's feelings.

"Does my butt look big in this dress?"
"Darling, I cannot tell a lie. It looks big in everything you wear. It is objectively large."

There's just no sense in doing that if you can avoid it. Thumper's Rule is the best way, but sometimes they will insist on asking you the pointblank question, and you either have to tell the barefaced lie or be a jerk.

And of course there's the classic situation in which the killer asks you, "Where is Bob, I'm gonna blow his brains out!" and you have to lie and tell him that Bob just left for Scotland, rather than revealing that Bob is hiding in the coat closet.

So those types of lying, I'm okay with. The three types of lying that really piss me off are...

Lying to commit fraud....

"So you swear that this 10 yr old car only has 2400 miles on it?"
"Absolutely! It was owned by a little old lady, who only drove it to church on Sundays."

Lying for self-aggrandizement...

"Yep, I did a tour in 'Nam. Waded blood up to my knees."
"Um...wait, I thought you were born in '60. You would've been too young for Vietnam, right?"
"Oh no, no. I was born in '52, son. That bullshit about being born in 1960, is just what I have to tell people, cause I'm in the witness protection program."
"Really..."
"That's right. I was in the Mafia, etc, etc, etc..."

Lying to cover up wrongdoing...

"Darling, are you still seeing your ex-boyfriend?"
"Why no, sweetheart! Whatever gave you that idea!"
"Someone's written his name across your butt with a black magic marker..."
"Oh that! I passed out at Arlene's house the other night, and one of the girls must have done that for a joke!"
"It's his handwriting..."
"It must've been Debra then. You know she's an expert forger..."
"..."
"Really, she used to work for the Mafia..."
"..."
"WHAT?? Do you think I'm LYING??!!"

So the two questions I ask about a person's lying are 1) did I have a right to know the truth; and 2) were they lying in order to gain something from me (money, greater respect, love) to which they had no right. If the answers to either, or both, are yes, then I'm going to have a hard time trusting that person again. It's not impossible if they show me a willingness to reform, but from what I've seen lying is a hard habit to break.

[ReineD]

I have pretty much decided how to deal with my own situation but i'd love to hear the views and experiences of others.

That's because you've decided to transition! It's difficult to do this and not tell others about it. :)

As to whether or not you can forgive your friend, it all depends. Habitual liars are not to be trusted, but did your friend lie about a particular situation? Everyone lies for self-protection. It is misleading to think that we lie to protect others, while others lie for self-serving reasons. As misguided as it is, we all lie because we think that if others know the truth it will harm us in some way.

The mistake is in feeling justified in your own lies, while not forgiving others for doing the same. I think very few people can boast of never having told a lie.

[Elizabeth Ann]

The mistake is in feeling justified in your own lies, while not forgiving others for doing the same. I think very few people can boast of never having told a lie.

Actually, I think quite a few can boast of never having told a lie. It is just, you know, a lie. ;)

Liz

[Loni]

it would depend on the lie...

did you eat the last slice of cake?

did you take that $500,000 dollars??

some lies are so small it does not really matter. but if a person openly tells lies even when they know, along with everybody else they are lieing..
if someone keeps telling me lies no i would not trust them. if someone said you do not look fat in that dress i would know i looked fat no matter what was said.

if a lie is said to harm or not to harm i would say that is how one would look at it. but for me it is much easier to tell/remember the truth than a lie..

.

[Saionji]

Again the circumstances are everything.

kellycan27 i agree with somewhat, as a transgendered or crossdresser you may realize the necessity of witholding the truth in some situations. even if you are religious there is times in the bible even where it is demonstrated to be accepted. you need to looka t the situation from the liar's perspective objectively; (not in a "well I'd have done X Y Z" or judgemental way but an objective one.)

Ask yourself why you think they felt they had to lie to you:

Ask, "Is it really your buisiness?" If it is a matter not related to you directly they may be embarassed or trying to contain a difficult situation to them. If this is the case adding to the drama is not mature. however if it does pertain to you. Some examples, if they lie about money or cheating with your lover or something extreme then you will want to confront them gently before cutting them off. But if it is something like you heard a rumour that they slept with one of your friends, extorted supplies from their job, or use drugs it may be something you should let go on the fgrounds they may already be in enough shame or guilt.

Remember, people in denial are people who are in pain. It's easy to say "A true friend never lies to me" but it's a lot harder to also realize that you, as a true friend, should forgive rather than hold in contempt.

[Sophie_C]

The best solution i've found for people like that is to, effectively "box" them away in terms of my life. Since they can't be trusted, don't put anything out there for them to take advantage of or that you need to give to a trusted friend. But, you can spend time together doing trivial things, having fun out. Just keep them contained there, in a way that they can't ever be given the slightest amount of ammo to hurt you with. Otherwise, the only other option is to sever ties...

[donnalee]

What has taken me the better part of my life to learn is that everyone can be trusted - to be as trustworthy as they are. Use judgement and discretion in what you say and do and this will cease to be a problem.
For example - a number of years ago I owned and ran a small - and I mean TINY - business. A customer came in to buy some items and among the small talk mentioned that he did home improvements as a business. I told him that I might need some work to my home. He was about $5 short of the total for his purchase and told me he would have it for me the end of the next week. 3 weeks later he showed up to ask about the job. I asked about the money he owed; he didn't have it; then again asked about the work. I said "What work? If a can't rely on you to settle a small debt, how do you expect me tp trust you with my home?". I needed to find if I could trust him; the best part was it only cost me $5.

[Megan Thomas]

I'd like to thank everyone for their replies so far. I've enjoyed reading every single one of them, and the points some of them make. All of them have helped me put some perspective on things.

I'd love to put some context into my situation but it's not important in the grand scheme of things/this thread, and possibly could alert the friend involved, so best not to go there. What i can add is I'm now fairly sure they are lying to serve their own interests, not mine (if that helps), and it's not the first time (but is with proof).

Something else I'd throw out for comment on is... How many of us have built in lie detectors? Are you blind to being lied to, or can you hone in on the silliest smallest lie, even those told by relative strangers you might only meet once in a lifetime?

[Gerrijerry]

SO you can lie about your self for years and then deside to change and tell the truth. Then everyone else is wrong for lieing because you think your stopped. This is so self centered that I am LOL.
Of course you never lied to your SO. or the people you worked with. LOL
I am not saying that a lie is OK, but give me a break there is more to this then you are saying.
I don't know any CD TS Gay Lesbian etc. who didn't tell a lie to cover themselfs just to survive.

[Shelly Preston]

I would be amazed if everyone told the truth 100% of the time

Some will tell lies, some will tell half truths, but the decision on your trusting them should be based on why they lied.

If someone lied to get money then I would be angry

I would never be angry with anyone who lied to protect themselves. An example would be not tellling people they were gay when working in a homophobic enviroment.

How many of us have been asked to keep a secret which meant we had to tell a lie sometime later ??

So as has been stated earlier it all depends on the context of the lie.

Only when you have all the facts can you decide if you will trust them.

[eluuzion]

I had a short reply version. But considering the fact that you asked for “views and experiences” (and I assume everybody knows how to skip long posts that they don’t want to read…hehehe):D

“You should always tell the truth, even if you have to make it up”.

I do it because I can; I can because I want to; I want to because you said I couldn't.
~ Motivational saying ~

“Deceiving others. That is what the world calls a romance”. -- Oscar Wilde
************************************************** ************
Relationships are not based on logic, but they are influenced by our emotions. This is the reason our interactions and intimate relationships with each other appear so confusing.

I believe we all have an internal, unique “Moral Compass” which we use to navigate our journey through life. Calibration of this “compass” differs by individual, including some that appear to be completely void of the concept. (psychopaths, etc.) This internal “compass” influences our individual perceptions and interpretations of our experiences in life.

Based on that assumption, I believe in most human interactions…particularly regarding lies and deception…
“There is no reality, only perception”.

There are two primary ways to “lie”. One is to conceal and the other is to falsify. Concealing (lying by omission) withholds some information without actually saying something untrue. Falsifying requires the additional step of presenting false information as if it were true. The most popular choice is of course “concealing” because it gives the liar more choices to weasel out of it if caught. (it was a misunderstanding, etc.).

So, with lies and deception, the direct participants have the ultimate responsibility to define and quantify lies and deception in their lives. It boils down to each of us making personal decisions about what we consider acceptable or unacceptable behavior in others and ourselves. I believe the biggest reason relationships encounter crisis and in some cases fail, is because partners do not take the time to jointly define what is and what is not acceptable behavior in their relationship IN ADVANCE. At a minimum they should share what actions/behaviors each individual would consider to be serious enough to end the relationship. Unfortunately, most choose to wait until a crisis occurs to discuss these issues.


“Does being a closeted crossdresser make you more or less accepting of being lied to”?
To a great degree, it depends on the amount of interdependence involved in the circumstances. By this I mean the more intimate the relationship, the more critical honesty becomes. As intimacy increases (such as with an SO), the more the partners rely on and make decisions based upon what is presented as honest information. I do not believe in presenting deceptive information to anyone who might make a different choice if they were provided with the truth. I also use this standard when judging the character of people I choose to interact with or avoid.

“Do you feel a pang of guilt when you lie or decieve to cover your tracks”?
There is a massive assault on personal privacy in America, which compromises the privacy and personal safety of everyone involved. I now believe lies; deception and dis-information are necessary to protect my family and myself. This is the only issue where I am forced to compromise my personal “ethics”. I do not lie or deceive people close to me. I deal with whatever issues arise from being honest. I expect the same from others.

“Would you dump a CD supportive friend or SO for lying?”
I do not have specific rules that only apply to the “CD arena”. I believe people lie for different reasons. Many times they are not aware of the real reasons themselves. A promise “not to lie again” is insufficient to warrant belief that it will not happen again. A promise does not change the potential for reoccurrence. A promise only guarantees that if they lie again, (break their promise) they will try harder this time to conceal it. Why? Because a promise does not change the factors that led to the problem. (the setting, opportunity, emotions, motivation, influences that influenced the decision to engage in deceit). Returning to unchanged circumstances only increases the likelihood they will repeat the indiscretion and be more diligent in concealing it.


I believe that people are rarely deceptive in only one area of their lives. It is a character issue. I many not “dump” such a person. But I would no longer place any credibility on anything they said in the future, nor would I confide in them on any personal issues.

“Where does the line get drawn for you”
I place great value upon personal integrity. The “line” for me, as well as my approach to life is probably best defined by this statement…

“Your character is what you do when you think nobody is looking”.

And they all lived happily ever after… The End:heehee:

[Dora Faye]

I have a fairly steadfast policy to not lie although sometimes I sidestep or divert difficult questions. Like when people ask me why I shaved my beard recently I say, "needed a change" or "wanted to see what I looked like without it" which are true but not the whole truth. Imagine their reaction if I had told them I wanted to look more like a woman! But over all guilt has a pretty effective hold over me so direct lying is not really something I allow myself to do.

As for friendships, in my experience because I've moved so many times, they tended to come and go and I have learned to live with that. And in general, friendships seem to have different shelf lives. I do try to be forgiving but if someone hurts me repeatedly I tend to avoid them and this could of course result in the end of a friendship. C'est la vie.

[kimdl93]

Not knowing the circumstances of your friend's deception, its difficult to judge whether you should keep them as a friend or not. I don't think any of us can claim to be without fault, and certainly as CDers we've done our share of deception as well. So maybe you should cut this person some slack. You might ask why.

[Sophie86]

How many of us have built in lie detectors? Are you blind to being lied to, or can you hone in on the silliest smallest lie, even those told by relative strangers you might only meet once in a lifetime?

Unless the person is just a really incompetent liar, I can't read the lie in his face. I've learned to maintain a healthy skepticism regarding stories of extraordinary exploits and membership in elite organizations. One guy I knew claimed to have been a navy seal who participated in secret operations on behalf of the Brits in the Falkland Islands. Another one told me that he was a sniper for the CIA. I have a policy of appearing to swallow such stories while completely disbelieving them. There's no point in trying to argue with the people who tell such lies, just don't loan them any money or let them work on your car.

I've also been in the situation where my instincts told me one thing about a situation, but the person involved told me a completely different story. I just knew the person couldn't possibly lie to me with such apparent sincerity, so I discounted my instincts. Later, I learned that my instincts are pretty good, but my lie detecting abilities totally suck.

[Megan Thomas]

I am not saying that a lie is OK, but give me a break there is more to this then you are saying.

Is there? You must know more than me. ;)


I place great value upon personal integrity. The “line” for me, as well as my approach to life is probably best defined by this statement…

“Your character is what you do when you think nobody is looking”.

I loved your "short" post. Well thought out and structured. the best bit was what i've quoted above - it says it all really :)

[CalamityJane]

I will make this short and sweet for you...

* Does being a closeted crossdresser make you more or less accepting of being lied to? / It has made no difference at all
* Do you feel a pang of guilt when you lie or decieve to cover your tracks? / No, not in the slightest.
* Would you dump a CD supportive friend or SO for lying? / No, that would be very short sighted

[JulieC]

Does being a closeted crossdresser make you more or less accepting of being lied to?
Do you feel a pang of guilt when you lie or deceive to cover your tracks?
Would you dump a CD supportive friend or SO for lying?


#1: No. If I'm aware that someone I need to trust is lying to me, I take action as appropriate. Yes, as I answer in #2 below, there are sometimes motivations behind those lies. I consider what the motivations might be, and act as needed. For example, I take part in an activity where my safety relies in part on other people whom I must trust. I do not and will not engage in that activity with someone whom I have reason to not trust implicitly. I sometimes have to train people who do not know this activity, but I make it clear to them that safety is paramount, and trumps all other considerations.

#2: No. There's a priority driven ethic involved. There are categories of people to whom I will never be 'out', and it must remain that way because other people are depending on my ability to make a living in this world. In order to maintain that and focus on that priority, I am forced on the rare occasion to lie about being transgendered.

#3 Sorry, but it does depend. How I respond to it is very dependent upon the circumstances, the nature of the lie, etc. Example: My wife and I allow each other to lie to the other in support of a surprise, holidays, etc. That does not apply to anything else. We don't accept it. If I found out she was lying about something else, my trust for her would most emphatically be reduced. It would be cause for concern, and cause for some long, open discussion. Counter example; I have an acquaintance whom I really like. Great guy, fun to be around, usually reliable, etc. But, I found out he lies, and lies a lot. I initially thought I wanted to be better friends with him, but have remained just casual acquaintances with him. I haven't invested the energy into 'fixing' the friendship, because it's not worth it to me. With my wife, it obviously is worth it. The line is different depending on the circumstances.

[Fab Karen]

Where does the line get drawn? If they say they like tea, or their name is Meg.

As to the question about closeted people, it depends on the motive- not being open with a bigoted boss is self-preservation for example. But sitting silent while others act against another in words or worse actions is indefensible.

[Hope]

First realize that all people lie, everyone here lies, even you, and particularly me.

This really depends on the purpose of the lying and on it's effects on you.

You said that the lying has to do with benefiting this friend in some manner. That is not good, but not surprising, almost all lying is done in order to benefit the liar... Is the purpose of the lying to harm you? Is this person going out and telling falsehoods about you in an attempt to embarrass you, harm your reputation, or to deprive you of something (friends, resources, reputation etc?). Basically, the question is: is this person starting rumors about you? If the purpose is to hurt you for some reason, then the issue of the lying is irrelevant. The lying becomes secondary to the fact that the person in question is intentionally harming you. That is not a friend, and you burn that relationship to the ground, there is no excuse, and in the VAST majority of cases, no second chances.

If the lying is not being done to intentionally hurt you, then the next question is - is the lying having an unintended consequence that is effecting you somehow? If the person is lying and it has no effect on you - then it really isn't much of your business outside of an academic ethical "lying is wrong sort of way. If the lying is having a secondary or tertiary effect on you - then you have a legitimate grievance. If your friend tells your kid that he is the worlds greatest dad (a lie - but not about you or intended to hurt you) and it makes your kid think less of you, then it is reasonable to sit your friend down and say "don't do that."

It becomes a bigger deal if your friend knew that the lying he was doing was going to hurt you in a secondary or tertiary way, and went ahead and did it any way. Your friend may not realize that when he told your kid that he was the worlds greatest dad, that it would imply that your parenting skills were less than stellar. But if your friend is payed for his testimony by an advertising agency to say that he thinks your chief competitor produces a better product than you do (a lie) ... and he knows that this will hurt your business... but he does it anyway... that is different again.

The question really is this - is your friend intending to hurt you, or is he hurting you because he is a clumsy stupid jerk? If he is just a jerk, you should pull him up short and make him aware of how his actions affect you - if he continues to do it, knowing how it hurts you - drop the SOB.

[Satrana]

Does being a closeted crossdresser make you more or less accepting of being lied to? Keeping a private and harmless secret about yourself is not a lie. You are only lying if someone asked you directly if your were a CD and you answered no> otherwise you are keeping a private sectret to yourself which EVERYONE does. Being a private person and telling lies are not the same thing so I see no connection.


Do you feel a pang of guilt when you lie or decieve to cover your tracks? Of course you feel guilty when you cannot reveal your secret but it is not just guilt but anger that society's prejudice has forced your hand.


Would you dump a CD supportive friend or SO for lying? That depends on the lie and what the motive was. If the lie was minor and the motive was to protect my feelings then the solution would be to discuss what happened rather than this black/white option to dump them or not. Life is multiple shades of grey, you have to be sensible and pragmatic about these matters. The average person lies up to 20 times a day. They mostly white lies that are justified but there in no such thing as a 100% honest person.

[eluuzion]

Something else I'd throw out for comment on is... How many of us have built in lie detectors? Are you blind to being lied to, or can you hone in on the silliest smallest lie, even those told by relative strangers you might only meet once in a lifetime?

Actually, I do. :o

Ever heard of a "Truth Wizard"? Ever see the show on TV called "Eyes for Lies"? It is based on some research of a psychologist named Paul Ekman, who is an expert in many areas, one of them being "microexpressions" (tiny little facial gestures that reveal a person's emotions). Most people do not notice them, even when they are taught what to look for. He developed this training program called FACS to train law enforcement, CIA, etc. It teaches them how to identify the subtle facial microexpressions for interrogation purposes, etc.

Anyway, a "truth wizard" is sort of a natural "lie detector". Natural being the key word. People who have the natural ability (no training, just natural ability) to identify deceit and lies in people. There are only about 50 people indentified by extensive testing who are "truth wizards". (out of about 20,000 people tested). You have to be 80% accurate to be an official "truth wizard". The test was back in 2003? (San Francisco based). It was called the "Diogonees? Project" when I got involved in it. Pretty cool.

Anyway, I was close but no cigar...my "ability" has alot to do with having an advanced set of Abstract Reasoning abilities. Born with it....not always an asset, as it typically alienates people (or freaks them out, lol).:heehee:

Wanna try your abillity in a short little interactive test?
http://www.cio.com/article/facial-expressions-test

I got 10 for 10....how about you?

lol, E

[Megan Thomas]

Ever heard of a "Truth Wizard"? Ever see the show on TV called "Eyes for Lies"? It is based on some research of a psychologist named Paul Ekman, who is an expert in many areas, one of them being "microexpressions" (tiny little facial gestures that reveal a person's emotions).

I can't say I have, even though I was living in the States at that time (west coast too). I'm not someone who spends much time reading up on all that kind of stuff. I just know i have a really well honed skill in spotting patterns, trends, repetitions, and generally things that look "odd".

Good link, enjoyed that test. I got 8/10.

[Presh GG]

No I would only drop a good, supportive friend if I caught him/her talking bad behind my back.

I lied just yesterday, and I would do it again tomorrow Someone asked me what I paid for my house. None of their business. What gall !!!

Are you asking Questions you have no right to the answer ?

[Annaliese2010]

To me, for a lie to be a "lie" there has to be malicious intent otherwise it's simply human nature to 'put your best foot forward' or 'put on a happy face' or face the camera from your best angle, or 'accentuate the positive'. It's all a matter of degree and to what end. On the other hand character assassination of the innocent by rumor mongering, gossip and innuendo are despicable behaviors.

For me, there is a higher standard necessary for anyone who becomes a trusted friend. A true friendship includes complete honesty. A real friend is loyal and will defend you should someone attack your character when you are not present. I am 100% loyal to any friend of mine. I expect the same - or we simply ought not pretend to be close friends.

[sometimes_miss]

Everyone lies. The difference lies in what we think are important things to tell the truth about, and what the person we are lying to thinks are important. That's when folks get upset. Nearly everyone wants others to always tell the truth, while reserving the right to lie for ourselves whenever we see fit. In this, the world will never change.

[janice murray]

liars cannot be trusted.....maybe.

[Sammy777]

I won't go into details about my exp. but I will leave you with a few quotes and lines to think about.

[You lied.] Vulcan's can not lie........ it was simply an omission. Spock

There is no such thing as a "good lair". [think hard about that one ;)]

I trust everybody. [as far as I can throw them]

You give someone enough rope and they will eventually hang themselves.

I didn't lie......... I just took the liberty of.... ah... bullshitting you. Jake Blues

Every lie has a bit of truth in it.

If you believe it to be true is it still a lie?

When is lying not lying? When your at a poker table.

And finally:
Q: Why didn't the shark attack the lawyer?
A: Professional courtesy :lol2:

[RachelPortugal]

My wife says that if you always tell the truth, you never have to remember what you have said. She has a terrible memory so she never lies!

My CD'ing was not a dealbreaker in our relationship, but the deceit was. Now she is aware of each time I CD.

BTW, omission of details is not lying unless asked specifically about such a detail.

[eluuzion]

BTW, omission of details is not lying unless asked specifically about such a detail.

To be "fair", I suppose you would have to clarify your definition of "details" in that "personal opinion". I am assuming this is just your personal opinion and/or strategy, as most experts (Paul Ekman and others) in the areas of "lying and deception" would disagree with you, regarding the truth of your statement.

Concealing and Falsifying are widely accepted to represent the two primary catagories of "lies". Your statement is one of the typical reasons people choose to use concealment rather than falsifying.

Concealing offers many more options for the liar to "justify" or "deny" the "lie", if they get "caught". They can claim it was a "misunderstanding, or unintentional, or seemed insignificant, or an oversite, or a mistake, or a forgotten detail, subject to interpretation, etc.etc...

If you do have any documentation to support your statement, I would be very interested in seeing it.

:love: