Dressing and Divorce

[Trystan]

Has anyone divorced because of the "need" to dress that resides within us? I think it may have been the root cause of my failed marriage of 25+ years..... and to top it off , the divorce has left me broke , so i cant buy any clothes....bummer

[GaleWarning]

I do not believe that dressing, per se, is ever the root cause of a divorce.
Always, there are other issues ... the dressing is either the given excuse for the blow-up or merely a contributing factor.
Look elsewhere in your marriage relationship.
Dig deep ... sometimes the root cause is well hidden.
Finally, don't beat yourself up over it. Move on.

[Lucy_Bella]

You are absolutly correct IMHO Clayfish, I use to think my dressing was the root cause for my marriage troubles... Funny thing is...I never dressed in front of her through our whole marriage ,I did before we were married but she didn't like it so I did what little I could do in private... Looking back what destroyed my marriage was her cheating !! Then she used my dressing as an excuse , just as you mentioned Clayfish..

Now I am sooooooo much better off leaving her behind , yes , don't get me wrong it hurt and being lonley didn't help but I can honestly say I would never get back with my wife and I feel I am a much better person now because of the B.S. she put me through and useing my dressing for all of it was just wrong..!!

[MichelleL]

I do not believe that dressing, per se, is ever the root cause of a divorce.
Always, there are other issues ... the dressing is either the given excuse for the blow-up or merely a contributing factor.
Look elsewhere in your marriage relationship.
Dig deep ... sometimes the root cause is well hidden.
Finally, don't beat yourself up over it. Move on.

I agree completely, Clayfish. In my experience, poor communication is usually one of the root causes.

[AKAMichelle]

cd'ing isn't the root cause of my divorce but it was a contributing factor. I think most of the divorces are for other reasons.

[Julogden]

I do not believe that dressing, per se, is ever the root cause of a divorce.
Always, there are other issues ... the dressing is either the given excuse for the blow-up or merely a contributing factor.
Look elsewhere in your marriage relationship.
Dig deep ... sometimes the root cause is well hidden.
Finally, don't beat yourself up over it. Move on.
I would respectfully disagree with that. Some wives can never tolerate a CD husband. I know from experience. There was plenty of communication on my part, I told my wife prior to getting married and had to quit dressing in order to stay together. I was 21, very much in love, didn't want to hurt her, and didn't know myself well yet, so I agreed to stop dressing. I went cold turkey for a couple years, and finally realized that it wasn't going to work for me. I tried and tried to get her to discuss things to try and work things out, but that was the end. She wanted nothing to do with discussing what I was going through and there was no compromise. I was more than willing to work out a compromise in order to help her deal with her feelings about me being a CD. In the end, she walked, nothing that I could do would have stopped her.

Carol

[sandra-leigh]

You might want to scroll down to just below the message area and find the portion marked "Tags" and click on the link marked "divorce" there, to be shown a number of other messages about divorce, some of which discuss causes.

[Lucy_Bella]

I would respectfully disagree with that. Some wives can never tolerate a CD husband. I know from experience. There was plenty of communication on my part, I told hmy wife prior to getting married and had to quit dressing in order to stay together. I was 21, very much in love, didn't want to hurt her, and didn't know myself well yet, so I agreed to stop dressing. I went cold turkey for a couple years, and finally realized that it wasn't going to work for me. I tried and tried to get her to discuss things to try and work things out, but that was the end. She wanted nothing to do with discussing what I was going through and there was no compromise. I was more than willing to work out a compromise in order to help her deal with her feelings about me being a CD. In the end, she walked, nothing that I could do would have stopped her.

CarolI must respectfully disagree ..No it's not the clothing it's... the demeaner behind the clothing..

[RADER]

My first wife divorced me after 9 years of marriage, mostly because I would ware girdles under dressing.
I met My second wife, 12 years later, and exposed her to dressing before I asked her for her Hand in
marriage, She knew going in, and allows me to dress, as long as it stays in the house. Under dressing
is OK as long as it is not noticeable. Rader :)

[Ellenor]

I don't think that it was the root cause but as so many of the girls have already said, probably better than I can, It may seem to be the lightning rod so to speak but there are usually other relationship causes also. I was married for close to 30 years -- I had started cding when i was 11 or 12 -- so just maybe I would of been a good candidate for a sex change -- but I too had to hide this -- completely from my wife - when I tried to share with her she claimed it was the "dark side" of sex controling me. Oh well. My divorce has not been good money wise either and being alone is not what I want...

[Marsha My Dear]

Hi all, there were many reasons my first marriage failed, but dressing up wasn't one them. There were two strong, longtime relationships which destructed because I was 'one of those'. Good thing though, my wife is fine with it as long as she doesn't see me dress-up (unless by invitation/command) and it doesn't become a daily recreation.

[NylonMan]

I agree with the majority. My marriage just ended as well after 15 years. She knew going into it about my CDing. She accepted and even liked it when it benefited her. In the end. She cheated on me and then used that as the reason. I honestly think that the reason women do not like CDing is because they are insecure, either in the marriage or in thier looks. I think that if a women is secure in her femininity, she would not care what you wear. In fact i hear a lot of women talking in groups about how they would like to dress thier man up in thier clothes.

[Lynn Marie]

I've been divorced for five wonderful years now. It wasn't cross dressing, it was growing apart rather than growing together. We were actually going in different directions before we got married. We just didn't realize it at the time. We did well for a few years before marriage though. I stuck it out because of commitment and our daughter.

[joanieb]

Trystan, I was basically divoced because I was a crossdresser. But the divorce was bigger then the fact that I was a crossdreser. The biggest problem is that my ex was not, for all intent and purpose in it for better or worse, for richer or poorer, in sickness and health until death do us part, (the actual vows she took, not so seriously). If you were to speak with her now, she would say it was because we were married at 21, too young in her mind, mind you, there was no pregnancy, and we accepted our love, she knew that I was a crossdresser before she married me, and still did. She blames our divorce to our age, I blame our divorce to her mental ability to deal with life at any age. The fact that I crossdressed gave her an out. She'd hope it would sway our friends to thinking she was valid in her dicision. To this day, I have hung on to the friends we had. She has hung onto the bar rail at the local watering hole.

Truths have their way, absolutely.

[NicoleScott]

Sure, there are mariages that end for a combination of reasons other than crossdressing. But the simple truth is that some wives cannot tolerate a crossdressing husband, as Carol said. My first marriage ended for that reason only. You may believe otherwise, but I know.

[Lucy_Bella]

No... I am sorry but it wasn't ...just crossdressing?...I mean sure it's easy to say..Yeah thats it ..But no it's not.. In fact I am willing to bet if it was just crossdressing that only the marriage would still be intact,.. First it is the sterotype ( mis understanding of crossdressing as a whole ) way of thinking.. Right? Then once you out yourself whats the first queston? I mean come on people really, it's just clothing to us isn't it? Because thats what crossdresing is wearing clothing of the sex you wear not born as and assigned by soceity..

But we know what it is deep inside ..for some anyways ( me included ) That's to not have the nads to defend yourself once the secret is out!! For most if it's just crossdressing then why did we not hang it up?.. Because it is called being Transgendered you can't!! Your wife has that choice even if she accepted it from the beggining . It's called life but even more important is how yo expressed it and yourself ..Crossdressing may have had a part to do with it depending on the relationship and how it was brought about but ..No , it's hard to believe that was the only reason..

[Julogden]

No... I am sorry but it wasn't ...just crossdressing?...I mean sure it's easy to say..Yeah thats it ..But no it's not.. In fact I am willing to bet if it was just crossdressing that only the marriage would still be intact,.. First it is the sterotype ( mis understanding of crossdressing as a whole ) way of thinking.. Right? Then once you out yourself whats the first queston? I mean come on people really, it's just clothing to us isn't it? Because thats what crossdresing is wearing clothing of the sex you wear not born as and assigned by soceity..

But we know what it is deep inside ..for some anyways ( me included ) That's to not have the nads to defend yourself once the secret is out!! For most if it's just crossdressing then why did we not hang it up?.. Because it is called being Transgendered you can't!! Your wife has that choice even if she accepted it from the beggining . It's called life but even more important is how yo expressed it and yourself ..Crossdressing may have had a part to do with it depending on the relationship and how it was brought about but ..No , it's hard to believe that was the only reason..

Dear, you are certainly welcome to your opinion, but you did not live my experience, you were not there. I know very well what happened in my marriage.

Carol

[Lucy_Bella]

Juleo, Thanks for the polite way of letting me know this.. I am not out for a pissing match over this subject so please don't get me wrong.Who knows maybe I might learn something .. I guess we should define Crossdressing..

Crossdressing = Wearing an artical/articals of clothing meant for the sex you where not born as .. This does not include Wigs , makeup or any other non natural material that enhances the appearance to emulate the sex you where not born as.. IE .. To use these enhancements is not only Crossdressing it excells above and beyond that desire to feel femme. It passes any means of "I do it because I enjoy the way the clothing feels on me".. To do this act is to satisfy the desire of being the sex I should have been born as..

Yes most of us start as mere Crossdressers and in the end most of us become Trangender.. Is ths the same as Crossdressing? Yes one in the same but a cut above in the Gender spectrume. So in saying it was because of my Crossdressing ..Yes maybe you are correct because thats where all of it starts.. Couldn't be because your desires have grown and you wanted to explore more of your femme side , Right? But it could be that if your wife didn't like it from the start she sure as hell wasn't going to like the person who was supressing the urges to blossom..
Now for me, and I know we are all different I hide that growth and sucked in that growth.. Maybe it was I that drove my wife away.. Just a thought..

Like I said everyone is different..

[GaleWarning]

Dear, you are certainly welcome to your opinion, but you did not live my experience, you were not there. I know very well what happened in my marriage.

Carol

The irrisistable force met the immovable object and something gave way.
:sad:

[emmabeautiful]

Sadly it's an easy factor for both sides to blame.

My opinion is that if the relationship is working, you ought to be able to cope with it.

If not, it becomes a big issue.

[Satrana]

I do not believe that dressing, per se, is ever the root cause of a divorce.


I think that is naive to say it is never the root cause. There are undoubtedly some women for whom CDing is such an abomination that it is an automatic divorce. In the same way some people consider cheating to be cause for an automatic divorce. Some people do draw a line in the sand and stick to their principles.

I would agree that these women are a small minority but they definitely do exist. In most situations however the effect the CDing has on the relationship is a mixture of how the CD behaves and how transgendered he is and how open minded the SO is. If the issue is not resolved amicably then it festers and puts intolerable strain on the relationship aiding in its destruction.
In my estimation of the hundreds of divorces reported here in this forum, half say it was a contributing factor, the other half say it was not.

At the end of the day as you say move on. If your wife divorces you either wholly or partly because of the CDing then clearly she was not the right partner for you. Everyone is flawed. A good relationship lasts because the couples' flaws do not match up which results in a magnification of the issue.

[Josey]

Everyone's responce has merit. I feel sad those who experienced separations due "in part" to their CDing had to be an agenda item in the divorce but we all must move on. There are many women out there who can cope with one CDing because marriage isn't just about one thing in a relationship. Just my humble belief.

[Hope]

No one gets divorced because of any single issue, particularly not one like this. Healthy functioning marriages look at something like this and giggle, in really great marriages, this is the sort of thing that brings people closer together. But lets be honest, these are the minority of marriages.

In deteriorating, or unhealthy marriages, where resentment and belittling behaviors have already set in or have been well established for a while, in marriages where the members are already looking for support outside of the primary relationship, issues like this can easily become the excuse for or a divorce. But honestly - it is better that those marriages end any way.

In the vast majority of marriages, where there are no significant problems, but no significant resources either, this can be the sort of thing that can stimulate a couple to turn towards each other and start to think and behave seriously about their marriage. But this depends upon both of the members of the marriage to decide to be present in the marriage, and to seek support from inside the marriage. That means that the wife has to more important than the dufus football buddies and the husband has to be more important than the catty coffee clutch. In these marriages, something like cross-dressing can be the spark that stimulates the marriage to become a great marriage, and bring the couple closer together, OR it can be the excuse to start tearing a marriage apart. And it depends entirely on the people involved.

But lets be serious, every day there are marriages that overcome obstacles SO MUCH bigger than this one, and there are marriages that succumb to no more than petty bickering. Cross-dressing is not why people get divorced... people get divorced because they don't have healthy relationships with their spouse... cross-dressing, and the myriad of other things, are just excuses.

[joanieb]

Thank you Hope for that! I think you summed up the success and failure aspect in any relationship quite well.

Often times we hear that a marraige or relationship is a 50 50 sort of deal, you know comprimise for the other. Posibily and probably those do work at minimum. But, I believe, as you have discribed, it is more not the "issue" then it is the "effort". A Marraige or relationship is a 100 100 sort of commitment. You can never be fully engaged in a giving and loving relationship to a point were you will both be successful, if your only giving half of yourself to it.

Very often a person who expects another to bring them happiness will never recieve that happiness. Though the person who gives of themselves with out expectation will see happiness returned a hundred times over.

[NicoleScott]

Dear, you are certainly welcome to your opinion, but you did not live my experience, you were not there. I know very well what happened in my marriage.

Carol

And yet, Carol, there are those who say you are wrong, that they know better than you what happened to your marriage. Seems a bit arrogant, don't you think?

[janelle]

Yes, my marriage ended after 31+ years along with another 5 years of dating b4. We still are friends & go out to eat once in awhile, but my being me did it in.
HUGS

[Tammy V]

I am so afraid to tell ym wife about my crossdressing, because in my heart I fell she will never accept it. My worst nightmare is her divorcing me (I could live with that) And telling my family (I would have a real hard time with that, elderly parents). I fell telling her would empower her by giving her information she can use against me. But on the other hand the need to dress and express my fem side is growing, so not sure where I will end up. I would like to have some money left for this expensive habit, but I can relate to the divorce breaking you.
Good Luck

[Lorileah]

more than half the marriages in the US end in divorce. Crossdressing would be a drop in the bucket compared to the many reasons. People grow apart. Things never stay the same. Some will work to save it most won't because of time and effort. I am sure some divorces are from the perception that the male is somehow not the male when crossdressed and that may very well be a hurdle a woman cannot cross. However, I agree with Clayfish, it would be the lowest denominator in the myriad of divorces posted here. It may be the reason stated, it may be the easy reason to start a divorce, but the majority will have deeper reasons especially when the CD has gone out of their way to NOT dress or push the issue. So for the 10% who are reasonably sure the divorce was due to clothing issues...OK. Most are not and many are at least equally the woman's fault as the man's. CDing is a highly visible and often humiliating part of some men and when the threat of exposure is made it just makes the divorce easier for the spouse. In the US most staes have no fault so this isn't really the issue but it makes a nice "reason" when the spouse is asked "What went wrong" and is easier to say than "We didn't get along anymore."

[Lucy_Bella]

And yet, Carol, there are those who say you are wrong, that they know better than you what happened to your marriage. Seems a bit arrogant, don't you think?

I have yet seen anyone say anything about being wrong, the correct answer would be highly unlikely .. With out the full story of the OP's relationship and how often crossdressing occured or not mention anything else about the way the OP lived her life on a daily bases (just underdressed hid all dressing or dressed 24/7 ).. Its hard to say but a great answer could be highly unlikely because of xdressing

[joanieb]

I fell telling her would empower her by giving her information she can use against me.

Tammy, If you are worried that you would be giving her power (ammunition). Doesn't this mean that you may already be on shaky ground. Do you feel the one you married is vendictive and looking for something to hang you out to dry with?

What I have heard, is that the biggest reason most women (who are not genderphobic) get upset with the sudden knowledge that they are married to a crossdresser, is not because of the cross dressing, it's because of the lying and hiding. In most healthy minds a lie is the worst thing that can be exicuted especially in a marraige. In healthy marriages open communications and sharing of feelings are parramont to the well being of that marriage. Where do we go with this, when this isn't the case? We typically must live with hiding and lying for the rest of your life. Should the relationship mean anything to you or you can't handle the fall out of full disclosure you can't do anything. This is a choice that you must make and a choice you must live with. There is no having both. That is unless you believe in the miricle where one day your wife comes to you and says, "hey lets dress you up in my clothes". Maybe possible though, as Halloween is around the corner.

[Phyliss]

38+ years of marriage, and no divorce. I'm alone now because of the last part of the marriage vows, "... until death do ye part"
Yeah she "knew" and didn't like it, BUT it became a small part of me when it came to our relationship. The big picture always remained. We were committed to each other "for richer or poorer, better or worse, sickness and health..."

We both understood the meanings of our vows, and weren't about to pitch 'em for a bit of unhappyness.

[Julogden]

And yet, Carol, there are those who say you are wrong, that they know better than you what happened to your marriage. Seems a bit arrogant, don't you think?

Yes, a bit. :)

Thanks,
Carol

[Sophie86]

I don't want to put words in her mouth, but I think Lucy's point is that it's not the act of crossdressing, but how the spouse interprets the crossdressing. What are the words that come into her head when she finds out?

Pervert. Deviant. Gay. Queer. Fag. Girly-man. Weak. Submissive. Sissy. Limp-wristed wimp.

That's how society judges us, and instead of relying on what she knows about her husband, she accepts society's verdict. She is afraid to stand by her man, because she doesn't want to be be hit by any of those awful words that are hurled at us.

[Lucy_Bella]

I don't want to put words in her mouth, but I think Lucy's point is that it's not the act of crossdressing, but how the spouse interprets the crossdressing. What are the words that come into her head when she finds out?

Pervert. Deviant. Gay. Queer. Fag. Girly-man. Weak. Submissive. Sissy. Limp-wristed wimp.

That's how society judges us, and instead of relying on what she knows about her husband, she accepts society's verdict. She is afraid to stand by her man, because she doesn't want to be be hit by any of those awful words that are hurled at us.

Sophie,
Yes that is it!! Cding is not a cause !! Cding for most ( for me anyways ) is like being born with brown eyes. I didn't ask for for brown but I got em anyways so I live with em,.. The eyes work fine and beat not seeing at all. Yes , sure I could cover or change the color of my eyes to blue with contacts but that just wouldn't be me.

I am just saying that if your wife knew you CD'd from the start and like so many of us do, did you think you were going to stop once you were married? Did you mis lead or guide her in anyway ? Did she understand that for the most part, cding was a part of your life right from the begging? You said she didn't like it from the start and maybe in good faith because you meant well and thought for sure you would stop , but you continued to let her down by doing it. Did you in anyway educate her offer her professinal therapy?

If she ( your wife ) knew what cding was from the begging chances are you would still be together ,but lets not forget most women DON'T!! Now I am not in anyway saying you decieved your wife in anyway you are correct I wasn't there and I didn't live it..I am saying if your wife knew and accepted CDing from the start she would know its not something you can just STOP or change ( like being born with brown eyes ) you cover it up the best you can and hide it..No cding doesn't break up marriages we do..

[docrobbysherry]

I would respectfully disagree with that. Some wives can never tolerate a CD husband. I know from experience. There was plenty of communication on my part, I told hmy wife prior to getting married and had to quit dressing in order to stay together. I was 21, very much in love, didn't want to hurt her, and didn't know myself well yet, so I agreed to stop dressing. I went cold turkey for a couple years, and finally realized that it wasn't going to work for me. I tried and tried to get her to discuss things to try and work things out, but that was the end. She wanted nothing to do with discussing what I was going through and there was no compromise. I was more than willing to work out a compromise in order to help her deal with her feelings about me being a CD. In the end, she walked, nothing that I could do would have stopped her.
Carol

ANYONE, in this day and age, that gets married at 21, starts out with 2 STRIKES ON THEM!:sad:

Statistically, Carol, if u NEVER so much as tried on a pair of panties during your married years, you'd most likely have gotten divorced anyway!:brolleyes:

My divorce also had NOTHING to do with CDing! When the affection and sex stop, folks just DON'T stay together like they did back in the day!:straightface:

[LilSissyStevie]

Pervert. Deviant. Gay. Queer. Fag. Girly-man. Weak. Submissive. Sissy. Limp-wristed wimp.

As if it were a bad thing! That was my first wife's opinion of me and I never (well, hardly ever) crossdressed during that marraige. I always wonder why CDs seem to be attracted to the most intolerant women?

[Julogden]

Sophie,
Yes that is it!! Cding is not a cause !! Cding for most ( for me anyways ) is like being born with brown eyes. I didn't ask for for brown but I got em anyways so I live with em,.. The eyes work fine and beat not seeing at all. Yes , sure I could cover or change the color of my eyes to blue with contacts but that just wouldn't be me.

I am just saying that if your wife knew you CD'd from the start and like so many of us do, did you think you were going to stop once you were married? Did you mis lead or guide her in anyway ? Did she understand that for the most part, cding was a part of your life right from the begging? You said she didn't like it from the start and maybe in good faith because you meant well and thought for sure you would stop , but you continued to let her down by doing it. Did you in anyway educate her offer her professinal therapy?

If she ( your wife ) knew what cding was from the begging chances are you would still be together ,but lets not forget most women DON'T!! Now I am not in anyway saying you decieved your wife in anyway you are correct I wasn't there and I didn't live it..I am saying if your wife knew and accepted CDing from the start she would know its not something you can just STOP or change ( like being born with brown eyes ) you cover it up the best you can and hide it..No cding doesn't break up marriages we do..

Clearly, you're forgetting the disclaimer in your signature. If you're not an expert on this, why are you acting like you know it all?

You do not know the woman I was married to: I am not in the mood to document all the things I tried to make the marriage work, but yes, we went for counseling, but when she was told by more than one counselor to learn to accept that I am a CD, that was the end of counseling for her. That's all that I have to say on the subject. Please don't bother trying to tell me that my being a CD wasn't the reason for the end of my marriage, as I know far better than you what happened.

Carol

[Lucy_Bella]

You are right and I don't claim I know it all so get ur underware out of a twist missy... I have said several times I don't know of the OP's or your situation but common sense say's it not crossdressing that is the root cause thank you very much..

I have a right to my opinion and I have been nothing but nice expressing it, if you don't like it you can very easiley scan past it. No need to attack me for my opinion right or wrong, I am sure you have better things to do than that.

[GaleWarning]

And yet, Carol, there are those who say you are wrong, that they know better than you what happened to your marriage. Seems a bit arrogant, don't you think?

Before things get too heated here ...

I had lunch the other day with an old work colleague ... he told me that, becuase he is good at his job and knows what he is talking about, many people consider him to be supremely arrogant ... thinking about, though, he had come to the conclusion that he is merely benignly arrogant ... he doesn't push his point of view, he only restates it, because he feels that he knows he is correct.

Carol, I confess that I am benignly arrogant ... I mean you no harm ... I think you will find more inner peace if you revisit your marriage and entertain the conjecture that perhaps there WERE other issues (besides your CDing) which caused the divorce. Do some digging.

The one thing I do like about communist ideology is this: things are seldom as they seem on the surface. To truly understand, you have to dig deep below the surface.

Carol, I wish you all the best.

[Hope]

As if it were a bad thing! That was my first wife's opinion of me and I never (well, hardly ever) crossdressed during that marraige. I always wonder why CDs seem to be attracted to the most intolerant women?

I think an even better question to ask would be "Why does our culture create so many intolerant people?"



Pervert. Deviant. Gay. Queer. Fag. Girly-man. Weak. Submissive. Sissy. Limp-wristed wimp.

That's how society judges us, and instead of relying on what she knows about her husband, she accepts society's verdict. She is afraid to stand by her man, because she doesn't want to be be hit by any of those awful words that are hurled at us.

That sounds pretty authentic to me. Pretty insightful too.

It is hard to blame people for not wanting to be disrespected and insulted - but helping to bear the burdens of another person is a part of the job description for a friend, much less a spouse.

[Julogden]

You are right and I don't claim I know it all so get ur underware out of a twist missy... I have said several times I don't know of the OP's or your situation but common sense say's it not crossdressing that is the root cause thank you very much..

I have a right to my opinion and I have been nothing but nice expressing it, if you don't like it you can very easiley scan past it. No need to attack me for my opinion right or wrong, I am sure you have better things to do than that.

???????????????????:wtf:

You have repeatedly stated that crossdressing is never a cause for divorce in such a way that I don't see you expressing an opinion, I see you trying to force what you believe to be clear fact on me, despite me and at least one other poster stating that it was indeed the cause of our divorces. Go back and read what you posted. Yes, you have a right to an opinion, but you have been repeatedly telling me that I am wrong, and that's rather rude. I have no idea as to what you've gone through in your failed relationship(s), so I wouldn't even dream of trying to tell you what the caused your relationship to fail so please return the favor.

Carol

[Satrana]

I think Lucy's point is that it's not the act of crossdressing, but how the spouse interprets the crossdressing. What is the distinction here? Since the wife is not the one crossdresing then only her perception of the behavior matters. And if she sticks with society's prejudiced view contrary to what her husband is saying, doesn't this explicitly make clear that this behavior is divorce material?

Some people are confusing two separate issues - the complex nature of a relationship and the idea that there are certain things which some people find inexcusable and so automatically they break off the relationship.

Can you really say that if you found out your spouse was doing something really "creepy" say like necrophilia (having sex with corpses) that you would not think OK that is just too much, I am out of here, I have no interest in being educated why people would want to do such a thing. Well to some wives crossdressing has a very high creepy value that destroy's their image of their husband making them believe the worst and inevitably leading straight to a divorce.

[sissystephanie]

I told my late wife before we married! She fully accepted me "as is" and we enjoyed almost 50 years of marriage before cancer took her. BTW, we had actually know each other since childhood, well over 60 years! Honesty regarding my CD'ing made it a non-problem!! I never really wanted to be a woman, so she always knew that I was her MAN, no matter what clothing I had on!

[GaleWarning]

I would respectfully disagree with that. Some wives can never tolerate a CD husband. I know from experience. There was plenty of communication on my part, I told my wife prior to getting married and had to quit dressing in order to stay together. I was 21, very much in love, didn't want to hurt her, and didn't know myself well yet, so I agreed to stop dressing. I went cold turkey for a couple years, and finally realized that it wasn't going to work for me. I tried and tried to get her to discuss things to try and work things out, but that was the end. She wanted nothing to do with discussing what I was going through and there was no compromise. I was more than willing to work out a compromise in order to help her deal with her feelings about me being a CD. In the end, she walked, nothing that I could do would have stopped her.

Carol

Let us step back for a moment and take stock ...
This thread started with a question, "Has anyone experienced a divorce in which crossdressing was the root cause?" (I have paraphrased it slightly.)
I expressed the opinion that crossdressing, per se, is never the root cause and that there are always other factors involved, which are not always entirely obvious.
I have re-read Carol's posts.
She has stated that she has always been willing to compromise on the issue, and her wife not.
This point of view is the one which contains a flaw.
Had Carol been prepared to compromise, she would have done as so many of us on this site have done ... quit crossdressing for many years until the kids left home.
But she could only go cold turkey for a couple of years.
The counsellor tried to get Carol's wife to accept the she is a CDer (see a later post) but she refused to.
I wonder two things ...
(a) Did the counsellor try to get Carol to modify her own stance in any way? Perhaps Carol will enlighten us.
(b) Why was Carol's wife unable to modify her position? If we can shed some light on this question, perhaps we will be able to clear the present impasse and understand the situation better.

[My own divorce certainly had some elements of Carol's situation in it ... my wife refused even to go to a counsellor ... but there were other reasons for her refusal to open her life to scrutiny ... I'll leave it at that.]

[NicoleScott]

This thread started with a question, "Has anyone experienced a divorce in which crossdressing was the root cause?" (I have paraphrased it slightly.)
I expressed the opinion that crossdressing, per se, is never the root cause and that there are always other factors involved, which are not always entirely obvious.
I have re-read Carol's posts.
She has stated that she has always been willing to compromise on the issue, and her wife not.
This point of view is the one which contains a flaw.
Had Carol been prepared to compromise, she would have done as so many of us on this site have done ... quit crossdressing for many years until the kids left home.


Where's the compromise here? For the sake of the kids, he quits crossdressing. After the kids leave, he starts, and she divorces him because she still can't tolerate a crossdressing husband. But it was for the kids. Where's her part of the compromise?

Clayfish, several here have stated that their marriage ended because of crossdressing as the root cause. Why must you still deny?

[Julogden]

Let us step back for a moment and take stock ...
This thread started with a question, "Has anyone experienced a divorce in which crossdressing was the root cause?" (I have paraphrased it slightly.)
I expressed the opinion that crossdressing, per se, is never the root cause and that there are always other factors involved, which are not always entirely obvious.
I have re-read Carol's posts.
She has stated that she has always been willing to compromise on the issue, and her wife not.
This point of view is the one which contains a flaw.
Had Carol been prepared to compromise, she would have done as so many of us on this site have done ... quit crossdressing for many years until the kids left home.
But she could only go cold turkey for a couple of years.
The counsellor tried to get Carol's wife to accept the she is a CDer (see a later post) but she refused to.
I wonder two things ...
(a) Did the counsellor try to get Carol to modify her own stance in any way? Perhaps Carol will enlighten us.
(b) Why was Carol's wife unable to modify her position? If we can shed some light on this question, perhaps we will be able to clear the present impasse and understand the situation better.

[My own divorce certainly had some elements of Carol's situation in it ... my wife refused even to go to a counsellor ... but there were other reasons for her refusal to open her life to scrutiny ... I'll leave it at that.]

I've said all that I have to say. I know what happened in my marriage, as I have gone over things many times since they occurred 35 years ago. You two can keep on impressing yourselves with how incredibly knowledgeable you are about the marriages of people you've never met. :rofl:

Carol

[Lucy_Bella]

This is to the wise ones here who keep making comments about others opinions rather than letting it go.. First of all , did you tell your wives of the crossdressing desire you had prior to meeting or marriage? Did you start crossdressing long after you were married for the first time? That would be to me the only root cause in reference to cding.

Did you tell your wife you would stop? after learning she didn't approve. Did you hide your dressing from your wife with or her knowing you were a cder?

I find it hard to believe that women are that shallow to dump you for being just a cder and if so maybe you were doomed from the start. Crossdressing has no known cause but we all know it's something we have the overwhelming urge to do. Could it be possiable that you mis lead your wives about the subject in hand ( even from the start) ? That you wasn't clear enough and she wasn't educated enough about men who CD?

You just don't understand and accept that it wasn't CDing that ended the marriage as a whole and trust me I thought the same as you did I thought Cding ended my marriage. But I learned it wasn't it was me and the fact I didn't accept it myself. By doing that I never understood that it's a slow process and a unselfish act to get a loved one to understanding although some will never fully be accepting

Maybe someday you wise ones will learn too, that it wasn't the cding it was you and how you handled your cding. After all lets give the exes some credit they didn't run after you told them before marriage right? To say it was Cding is just an easy out take a look at what else was going on.. I agree the cding didn't help but it's hard to believe that it was the only factor. Not saying that it wasn't just saying it's hard to believe anything is possiable.

But what do I know ? I am just an ARROGANT A** HOLE KNOW IT ALL EXPERT..

[Sophie86]

What is the distinction here?

A lot of CDers convince themselves that it's just clothes. You've heard these before:

"Women wear pants, why can't I wear skirts?"

"Skirts are just more comfortable."

"I just like the way the material feels."

When women started wearing pants, it signified something. It wasn't just about being comfortable, it was about challenging male dominance in society and in the home. Men knew this at the time, and that's why they resisted it. When a man wears women's clothing, it also signifies something: a desire to be released from being dominant (to some degree, at least). Women know this, and many of them are disturbed by it. They want a man who will protect them and who will be the breadwinner in the family. Their status in the world is determined by their husband's status, and his status is determined by his aggressiveness and his ability to stand up to other men. When they hear "I want to wear women's clothes," what they really hear is "I want to be weak. I want to be passive. I want to submit to another man." That strikes at the foundation of everything the woman wants out of life.


Can you really say that if you found out your spouse was doing something really "creepy" say like necrophilia (having sex with corpses) that you would not think OK that is just too much, I am out of here, I have no interest in being educated why people would want to do such a thing.

Sure, but the social rules against necrophilia have a very different basis from the ones regarding gender roles.


It is hard to blame people for not wanting to be disrespected and insulted - but helping to bear the burdens of another person is a part of the job description for a friend, much less a spouse.

True, but not everyone wants to spend their life swimming against the tide. They want the house in suburbia. They want the acceptance of friends and family. They want to be welcome at the neighborhood barbecue. They want their children to be popular at school. So many other things are a struggle, and they're just not prepared to fight the good fight on an issue that they can't even understand.

[GaleWarning]

I've said all that I have to say. I know what happened in my marriage, as I have gone over things many times since they occurred 35 years ago. You two can keep on impressing yourselves with how incredibly knowledgeable you are about the marriages of people you've never met. :rofl:

Carol

And now we know why Carol's wife up and left ... Carol would not engage, instead chose to laugh ... and so this benignly arrogant person is going to emulate Carol's wife.
Good bye Carol.

[Hope]

Can you really say that if you found out your spouse was doing something really "creepy" say like necrophilia (having sex with corpses) that you would not think OK that is just too much, I am out of here, I have no interest in being educated why people would want to do such a thing. Well to some wives crossdressing has a very high creepy value that destroy's their image of their husband making them believe the worst and inevitably leading straight to a divorce.

Way to equate cross-dressing with necrophilia. Not Not NOT OK.

The issue you seem to be missing is that cross-dressing is a perhaps statistically unusual activity, but harms no one, is completely consensual, and is in no logical ethical system anything to be worked up about. Intolerance of cross-dressing is little more than fear-based bigotry. Bigotry is generally not acceptable. Necrophilia on the other hand, while also a statistically unusual activity, involves the non-consensual (because it's a corpse!) sexual violation of another person. It is difficult to find an ethical system in which non-consensual sexual activity of any sort is acceptable. Due to this, societal intolerance of necrophilia is not only normal, but completely appropriate.

It is somewhat horrifying to me that this even needs to be pointed out in a forum like this one.

You want to compare apples to apples? Compare people who cross-dress to something like the folks who like to dress up as Han Solo or Batman and hang out at comic book conventions. Sure, they might be dorks, but do you think that it is reasonable for a wife to divorce her husband because he likes to walk around with a magnetically propelled peton connected to a 100 meter, 1000# test, length of stainless-steel monofilament (or some other absurd piece of equipment) on his belt? Of course not. What is the difference? Bigotry. You said it yourself, people think cross-dressing is "creepy," and as long as they are allowed to continue to think that, (as long as members of our own community still think that) we will get nowhere with the fight for trans rights.


True, but not everyone wants to spend their life swimming against the tide. They want the house in suburbia. They want the acceptance of friends and family. They want to be welcome at the neighborhood barbecue. They want their children to be popular at school. So many other things are a struggle, and they're just not prepared to fight the good fight on an issue that they can't even understand.

Sure... everyone wants acceptance. Everyone wants their children and friends to be successful. Everyone wants a safe place to live. But why would anyone think that they can have acceptance, or success, or safety when they deny those things to others? Particularly when they deny those things to the people they claim are most important in their lives?

[Satrana]

That strikes at the foundation of everything the woman wants out of life. I agree very much with your analysis, I have always said that some women feel they need a "real" man since it adds value to their life so will not accept anything less. It is like thinking you have teamed up with a dragon only for it to turn into a poodle. It is really an issue of sexist stereotyping but irregardless it is the psychological impact on her change or perception of her husband that makes some women walk away. The facts on the ground are irrelevant to these people.



Sure, but the social rules against necrophilia have a very different basis from the ones regarding gender roles. But to some people a male crossdresser is just as wierd and disturbing. In many countries in the world and even in the West until very recently, a CD in public could be arrested and jailed. The point I was attempting to make is that there certainly are things which will result in an automatic divorce and some people will include crossdressing on that list.

CDing being the root cause of a divorce is a very real occurance but fortunately not that common and usually the chances are overblown by the paranoia of the CD.

[Sophie86]

The point I was attempting to make is that there certainly are things which will result in an automatic divorce and some people will include crossdressing on that list.

I don't disagree. I was trying hard to understand Lucy's point, and I think I ended up going in a different direction from her. It's true that there are a complex web of issues surrounding the act itself, but I can't agree with her that there are not women in the world who will simply dig in their heels and refuse to try to understand or accept it. We can't put the entire responsibility for the wife's attitude on the husband.


Way to equate cross-dressing with necrophilia. Not Not NOT OK.

I think you missed her point. She was saying that that's how some people react to it, not how they ought to react.



Sure... everyone wants acceptance. Everyone wants their children and friends to be successful. Everyone wants a safe place to live. But why would anyone think that they can have acceptance, or success, or safety when they deny those things to others? Particularly when they deny those things to the people they claim are most important in their lives?

That's a good question, but I wasn't describing how people ought to react, I was just saying that I understand the reaction. I think what such a person would say is: "It's not that I am denying him acceptance. That's just how the world is. I don't want to be stood up against the wall with him, and I don't want my children to suffer for him." It's cowardice, sure, but I understand it.

[NicoleScott]

Satrana, you made your point with your analogy only for those who understand analogies, and obviously some don't. A is to B as C is to D does not compare A to C nor B to D. It compares the RELATIONSHIP of A to B with the RELATIONSHIP of C to D. So it is not comparing crossdressing with necrophilia, but the reaction that some people have to necrophilia to the reaction to crossdressing: it creeps some people out. Some of us got your point. Sorry that some missed it.

[Shelly Preston]

Only those who were there during any divorce will know the reasons for it

For some it can take lots of little reasons building up before they decide on divorce

It the case of some women it can be a single reason

I am sure each divorce is unique and painful


Please do not say anyone is wrong when giving there reasons for their divorce

Who are we to say they are not correct

[Julogden]

And now we know why Carol's wife up and left ... Carol would not engage, instead chose to laugh ... and so this benignly arrogant person is going to emulate Carol's wife.
Good bye Carol.

What a cheap shot. You've succeeded with your arrogance (not benign in the least) in getting another response from me.

I worked VERY hard to make my marriage work, and was more than willing to go way past halfway in order to come to a workable solution to our differences over crossdressing, but my wife would not bend even a little. She abandoned the marriage because she couldn't have her way 100% when it came to my crossdressing issues.

You, on the other hand, I owe only the respect that I offer any stranger, but you have now shown that my respect is not warranted. I really don't have to explain all the little details of why my marriage failed other than it failed due to crossdressing.

Carol

[Trystan]

Hey now , lets hold on a moment........when I posed this question I did not mean to have anyone end up being disparaged by any comments. I said that I thought it was the root cause of my divorce.......my root cause, not necessarily hers. The cross dressing issue lies with the crossdresser, not with the spouse or the SO. There were perhaps several other reasons that added to the divorce, but for me the need and desire to dress created an atmosphere of uncomfortableness that I could no longer stand.

There a million reasons and stories in the naked city, to paraphrase, and I was only asking if others had a similar thought to my situation. The truth is that one cannot ever know about another till they have walked in the others shoes. My apologies to anyone who may have taken umbrage with comments posted by another, as that was certainly not my intent.

[joanieb]

And yet, Carol, there are those who say you are wrong, that they know better than you what happened to your marriage. Seems a bit arrogant, don't you think?

I'm not sure anyone has said they know what happened in any one particular persons Marriage. Or who is right or wrong. Disagreements don't mean the person I disagree with is wrong, it just means I see things differently than they do for many valid reasons. I believe that people are here for others opinions. I like coming to forums, as it's always best to hear others opinions whether I agree or disagree. These opinions come from their experiences and observations, some of which I may not have had or considered. Of course the opinions of others can be wrong when applied to different person. Their situation is specific to them. I believe most who've offered their opinions have done so with sincerity and the desire to share similarly or have a contrasting opinion heard so that others can read them and choose for themselves what others have done and experienced so as to formulate some kind of idea. To have this idea as to impliment what they should (n't)/ could (n't) do if faced with similar situations now or in the future.

Isn't this what forums like this are for? To say someone is arrogant because they have a different opinion, or share a different set of circumstances, doesn't provide anyone with anything they can build from. And often causes the attacks to soon follow. The only way that I know as to whether I should stand with my opinion or not, is to hear those who oppose it. Or the numbers who support it when I'm in doubt of myself. If someone can offer me something that will add to my opinion or deter from it, I will take it in and make my own personal decision. Calling me or anyone else arrogant, simply for having an opinion, isn’t (imho) very tolerant. Especially when those opinions are only an attempt to discourage the stereotypes that often exist because of a personal or group bias.


That's just how the world is. I don't want to be stood up against the wall with him, and I don't want my children to suffer for him." It's cowardice, sure, but I understand it.

This is often the basis of my discussions with my wife. For her there are a multitude of rights and wrongs that surround my Cross Dressing (transgenderism). Her primary issue is safety. She doesn't want to be confronted by ignorance when in public that could cause us harm. Next is her ego. She doesn't want to be placed by others into a box that is not her (Be that, a lesbian or someone hanging with a weirdo). Next is protection. She doesn't want her son to be effected by ridicule. She doesn't want me to be the subject of ridicule. She doesn't want her nest to be upset by an unknown. This is my wife, and this is what I love and do for her by the compromisses we have made together. Other wives might have a similar reaction. They may have a disimilar reaction. And often the reactions are very much out of cowardice. There really aren't that many people willing to put themselves, their reputations, their careers, their families on the line for something that is "percieved" as a pervece abnormality in society. I also am not saying that these actions are right, nor in the specific are they wrong. All of a persons contributions, trials and tribulations result in the success or failure of a relationship. A person has a right to say, "No, this is not what I expected in my life, there for I will take action to remove it from my life." That isn't the only rational, and that isn't the only reasons people and relationships can't work. But it is one and one that is very popular. And that is just the way it is in some cases.

The only answers that I have to change any of this to a more possitive future for all of us is that when we can, we try to live life with the highest integrity possible so that the stereotype of gender conflicted people changes from a perverce abnormality to something more substantial and viable in our society. Only when that happens hearts won't be broken.

[Satrana]

Satrana, you made your point with your analogy only for those who understand analogies Thank you Nicolle and Sophie for pointing out what I thought was pretty obvious. And to make it clear the reason why I had to use something more extreme like necrophilia is because we CDs are already living an alternative lifestyle so we usually are very accepting of other alternative lifestyles. Comparing ourselves to something equally harmless does not give you the sense of disgust some people do feel towards CDs.

In fact if you read the reports of wives initially being told of crossdressing, from time to time a really bad reaction is reported where the wife screams obscenities, describes her disgust at the depravity of the idea and sometimes vomiting occurs. Not exactly how people react to a harmless alternative lifestyle. We must recognise the depth of feelings some people have to our behavior even though we believe it to be unwarranted and irrational. Add in close mindedness and you have the perfect reciepe for divorce.

[sometimes_miss]

I do not believe that dressing, per se, is ever the root cause of a divorce.

Wow are you so wrong. The day my wife found out about my crossdressing was the beginning of the end. Of course it starts with "I don't even know who you really are!". Then of course the accusations of lying, suspicians of homosexuality, but it's the sudden image of her 'man' no longer being the masculine person she was attracted to, or rather the realization that he never was the masculine man she thought she was attracted to, and now that attraction is broken into pieces. And, once the sexual attraction is gone, it's the beginning of the end. Then you can add on little stuff, which all couples argue over, but it's often the sudden loss of her belief that you are her reliable protector, provider, strong person to lean on, etc. that kills the relationship, because now you are viewed with suspicians of unreliability, unfaithfulness, weakness (not only for not being 'the man', but for not having the strength of will to resist doing something that would obviously embarrass, disappoint and disgrace her). Basically her husband has become just another female friend, and she already has those. What she wants, and wanted, was a masculine man, and she'll never see you as that again, the image she has of you will always be someone who's broken.

[sometimes_miss]

In fact i hear a lot of women talking in groups about how they would like to dress thier man up in thier clothes.

Ummm...what groups are those????

[Alice Torn]

Must be on Venus!

[Lucy_Bella]

It appears that most people are missing what the OP said in the start of the thread..It wasn't that her wife didn't know from the start of the marriage and she never accepted the dressing but still married..
Its fine to think that crossdressing ended you marriage and if you think that then it's a selfish thought within it's self. There is a fine line between crossdressing and acceptance level ..Are we not crossdressing and being accepted from the start? Did you expand your desires past the acceptance level and your wife could no longer live with that?

There are soooo many different senerios that can be used to say that croosdressing was the root cause and there are sooo many that can say it wasn't ..In Clayfish's defence the original OP for this thread before it was expanded TO EACH AND EVERYONE of us, was she Knew about his dressing prior to marriage from the start..So where was the rest of the story??

*** My mistake the OP did not mention that she clued the wife in on her dressing desires prior to marriage **
So more of crossdressing as a root cause left out..

Is that so hard to take? Sorry I know everyone has a story and we have scars to bare , but why start expanding something because from what was said to prove nothing other than we don't agree on everything?

[GaleWarning]

Ummm...what groups are those????

Funny you should ask, Lexi ...
On Tuesday, Shesa and I were out in the local mall, looking for a dress she plans to wear to a family wedding next weekend.
She and one of the SAs had a friendly discussion about getting a dress for me, too.
:)

Lucy_Bella, thank you for your words in my defense.
:)

[sarahjo1989]

i am a spouse of a crossdresser and yes it can be the cause of a divorce if my husband acted on his issues still while i was around we would not be together anymore.

[diannecourtney]

Yes it definitely is a root cause but there are other seeds, i.e loss of potency, just being bored with each other and finally bitcheyness. We both got financially ok and got separate houses and away we went. But I must insist that being in my VS bra and trucare forms 24/7 has been liberating.