(SQ) Are you dismissive of our FTM brothers? If so, why?

[Deborah_UK]

There is a thread on the transmasculine section directed for Transmen only (hence the reason I didn't post on that thread to offer my support) asking if it makes Transmen angry that MTF's dismiss male traits as something to be despised.

If you are dismissive of our brothers, then why?

For myself, for years I was not even aware that transmen existed, and I apologise profusely for my blinkered existance.

However I now know several Transmen and have learned that their feelings relating to their gender identity mirrors mine in reverse, yes I hate the male traits that were forced upon me by years of socialisation, but by the same token I can understand that Transmen have suffered the same issues, again in reverse.

I'm not trying to controversial here, but am interested in why MTFs can be so insular as to not recognise that Transmen have it tough too, their body parts are at total odds with their gender identity, and unlike someone like me who can get my body to replicate the body parts I've desired all my life, Transmen still haven't got the same option.

All I'm asking for is respect for all our trans brothers and sisters (and their loved ones)

[Billijo49504]

I agree whole heartedly, everyone deserves respect because the only title I really agree with is human. Around the house, my wife likes to do things that are mostly guy things, lawn mowing and such. She has her own toolbox. Me on the other hand, I love to cook and bake and sew. So around here, it just works...BJ

[GaleWarning]

I see people as people, not labels.
I accept all people AS THEY ARE.
I do my best to do unto them as I would have them do unto me.
Sometimes I fail ...
But then, so do we all ...

So hopefully the present spat will end in mutual forgiveness and we will be able to resume the true purpose of this forum, to uphold and encourage one another.

[ReineD]

I honestly believe that when M2Fs bash men (I see this more in the M2F section than here, but then I do spend more time there), it is not meant as being disrespectful to F2Ms. I posted this in another thread, but I always took it this was done as a justification for being femme. It's as if some members need to rationalize being TG to themselves, even though rationalization is unnecessary.

It would be nice if every member remembered that not everyone on this site belongs to their particular group.

[Persephone]

I'm so glad that you started this thread, because I too didn't want to post on the "Transman only" thread.

I love our FtM brothers! Never even given anything that could be possibly negative a thought. A few times, when I've seen something I felt I could contribute, I've posted with whatever background experience that I felt might be helpful to anyone making the journey in the opposite direction. After all, why not?

I only wish that one of 'em would offer me their spare parts! I'm perfectly willing to do the same in return.

Wat does trouble me is that we seem to be obsessing over this and I can't help but wonder why. Is it part of the "politically correct" agenda that tells us that one comment or complaint means that somehow there is a "world of hurt" out there and that we have to change everything to "fix" the situation.

[Sara Jessica]

I'm reminded of the terrific sticky thread in the transmen section which invites questions from anyone. I posted the following early on...


Do you guys have a difficult time getting your head around why many of us in M2F land would want to be women, just as admittedly I couldn't imagine why anyone would want to be a guy???

I think this question kind of answers itself but the responses on that thread were a joy to read. I spent a little time there when that thread was started and acknowledge that I should get back there more often. As Persephone said, we're on the same journey, just going opposite directions. This was actually very similar to one of the responses to my Q.


I only wish that one of 'em would offer me their spare parts! I'm perfectly willing to do the same in return.

Wouldn't that just solve everything??? ;)

[Nigella]

This is an interesting question and personally No I am not dismissive of the F2Ms, there are opposites in all walks of life and our little community is no different.

One point, there is a lack of consideration given to F2Ms when they post in the general M2F forum. Just as the M2Fs prefer to referred to in the female nouns and pronouns, so the F2Ms prefer to be referred to in the male nouns and pronouns. Apart from physical considerations, the two groups are on the same side of the fence, but we see very little understanding.

I personally believe that the F2Ms can offer just as much to the M2Fs as the GGs do, but there is little respect to them as Males from some sections of this community.

Edit: Another point that has come to mind is that in the F2M community on this forum, I don't believe that anyone of them are F2M crossdressers. That could be one of the reasons why there appears to be a dismissive attitude towards them when the post in the M2F forum.

[Deborah_UK]

Good responses - I guess I wouldnt get "dismissive" responses (although its early yet!) - I would have posted on the main board, but read the description of that area of the forum, and guessed this thread doesn't fit in that section.

[Inna]

"Somebody wants to be me? Oh no, stop! you don't know what you are doing! You don't want this!"

Isn't this the scenario that runs through our minds, we are inner connected by self perception with our F2M bros. But to feel sympathetic we must step outside the realm of self and allow ideals that are foreign to us, to accept that our bodies could be worshiped just as we worship female form. It isn't so dismissive but rather we keep away from the concept because of our deep disrespect and hatred of our own masculine self.

[Jeanna]

Interesting thread Deborah,
I wonder how many MTF's that are dismissive of the FTM's are going to come out and say it, probably none. I also think that number would be few if any. There may be a perception that some of us MTF's hate everything male but I don't. I also don't believe that the FTM's hate everything female, it's that their bodies do not represent who they really are, just like us MTF's. In my heart and my dreams I'm a woman. My body is male, I don't like it, but it's what I got and I'll work with that. I know that they, the FTM's have the same in their hearts and dreams and I respect that.
Same issues, same feelings, just different people.
Jeanna

[Faith_G]

Never! It seemed obvious to me from the start that the men would have the same sorts of feelings about their bodies and their gender role that I do. And I know a few trans guys so I know they don't have it any easier than I do as far as being properly gendered by others. Oh, and as far as surgical options? We MTF's can be assured that we will have a functional vagina that looks like it grew that way. But the guys? I can't imagine what it's like to live knowing that you can never have something that looks and works right. My heart breaks for them. :(

[Steph.TS]

I'm not dismissive, I may be anti male as I'm so eager to be a woman, I've tried in the past asking in the transmen section what aspect of masculinity get's FTM TS to want to transition, hoping to build a more understanding view to the positive side of being male. I realize that as much as I want to be a woman, that FTM want to be a man just as bad. I think it's likely misunderstanding/lack of understanding, MTF are more than likely going to see 1 side of the story and FTM will see the other. I'll bet MTF's recognize FTM, but don't see exactly what is so good about being male to transition in that direction... I'm sure FTM see things equally confusing as to why MTF want to transition so badly.

I know that there are positive sides to being male and female, and TS's see the grass as greener on the other side regardless of what side they are on. I think if we have more open discussion on here, and both groups would have more understanding and acceptance would be seen from both sides.

[Melody Moore]

I'm not dismissive of trans-men at all, I know a trans-man who I have met a few times now who is the partner of a trans-female in my local transgender support group. But that is one trans-man amongst a support group of about 10 trans-females. I seen one other trans-man recently when I was in town, to that is 2 Trans-men I know of. So this indicates to me that there is more trans-females around than trans-males and this is why there might not be as much public awareness acceptance wit FTM transsexuals.

I don't post in the trans-male section because first of all I don't understand their needs and certainly wont ever pretend to. I assume that many of their needs are similar, but in many ways much different to my own. So I really don't feel that I have anything I can valuable that I can contribute to the FTM community... and besides there is so much I have to deal with my own transition I simply don't have room in my brain to accommodate anymore than I'm already dealing with. I certainly do understand they face the same type of homophobic & transphobic prejudice & bias as trans-females. But apart from that & transitioning, being on hormones & the need for SRS, there is very little else I think we share in common with them. This is not to say that I wont befriend them because I already have one trans-male friend as I already mentioned.

Apart from Ze, I don't know of any other trans-men who post in the trans-female sections anyway, so I need to ask
the most obvious question.. "Are the trans-men also being dismissive of our MTF sisters here as well?" and if so... why?

[7sisters]

Just my own musings, the threads “for transmen only” was not started by a transman.

Most men (cis and trans) are generally not exclusionists, clannish or dismissive. Male brains do not seem to be wired that way.

The transmen here and elsewhere have always been welcoming of ladies who are respectful of them (trans and cis)

Also much of the angry words that ensued in follow-up threads, was mostly not by transmen.

Men generally handle debate without getting ratty or excessively emotional.

Ze has so far, proven to be a good moderator.

I joined this site to participate in the conversations in the Transmasculine forum as I am a GG who was engaged to a transman and am currently close to another transman.

While I can accept the occasional threads exclusively for transmen, I hope it wont become a trend. It automatically defeats the most important reason for me to be here.

I see Faith in the Transmasculine forum and I dont think she has ever been dismissive.

[Pythos]

The idea of Transmen is entirely new to me. I have never experienced, encountered, or read about for that matter a woman that wanted to be male. That felt they were a male born in a woman's body.

I had no idea there were people that so desired that which I take for granted.
For me, I do not like facial hair, rough skin, and tremendous one sided limitations on how one can present themselves.

Granted women have silly or stupid limitations placed upon them, usually by men (oops there I go, male bashing again) in what they can do.

But basically the way I see it, it is all silly non-sense, brought on by people that want to place limitations on people for no good reason.

I think it actually would be quite fun to meet a transman who found me attractive enfem.