one thing genetic women are offended by

[vetobob9]

I was talking to my sister this evening. I did not mention my occasional cross dressing but I learned she had some bad experiences with cross dressers.
First one of her ex's kept stealing her clothes, including her underwear. And then, a few years later, she caught one of her neighbors doing the same thing, red handed.

Stealing and putting on other people's undies is very unsanitary and theft of clothing or anything else is always bad. People should always buy their own stuff.

She did mention being upset that her ex kept trying to be a girl, but reading through the lines, it seemed she was most upset that he was stealing and using her clothes without her consent.

People need to do the right thing. Regardless of what you like to wear, you should be honest enough to go out and buy your own, instead of stealing other people's. People who steal clothing from women, whether from their spouses, sisters, or by breaking into their neighbors' homes, are rotten apples that make the CD community look bad.

This behavior helps to spread negative stereotypes and negatives views of men who wear women's clothing. It something the CD/trans community should not tolerate.

[Danni Bear]

Vetobob,
GG's are not the only ones offended by this behavior. Stealing or borrowing without permission is wrong on many levels.This not only includes underwear but any article that belongs to another.
Danni

[Andy66]

Thanks, Vetobob. We are ambassadors of whatever group we belong to - not only gender, but race, career, whatever. If we are tacky or dishonest, we make our whole group look bad. It's not necessarily fair, but that seems to be the way it works.

[Kate Simmons]

Not tolerate maybe but who is really going to enforce that?

[vetobob9]

It's not fair but as long our societies continues to lump people into stereoptypes determined by the actions of a few. For many people this type of behavior, on the part of a tiny minority is all they know about cds. Look at the news these days that depicts cross dressers, it always depicts a CD stealing stuff or doing something else not only illegal but unethical under any situation or value system.
The media picks up on these people and uses them to symbolize the CD community.

Instead of just nitpicking I guess we should think of ways to disprove these negative stereotypes and that they do not represent the CD culture as a whole. But how?

Perhaps outreach? How do you do that when most CDs are still in the closet? It's going to take a long while apparently.

[Gerrijerry]

well said and totally true

[Josey]

Stealing is unacceptable on any level!

[Kathryn Martin]

This behavior helps to spread negative stereotypes and negatives views of men who wear women's clothing. It something the CD/trans community should not tolerate.

Uhhhmmm..... I find the stealing of personal items for personal use by genetic girls really obnoxious at times. Every time I buy a new bag or accessory, jewelery or even skin care:eek: my lovely Elizabeth:love: just simply treats them as her own and uses them:bonk:. Can you imagine:daydreaming: if my clothes were small enough for her to fit, let alone my shoes, I would have nothing to wear left.

This behaviour really re-enforces all of the negative stereotypes of GGs that you never know what's in your closet 'cause your girl friend (SO, GG) is wearing it tonight :facepalm:.

:hugs:

[vetobob9]

If your so borrows your things, then she should not have a problem with you borrowing her stuff. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

I'm just referring to that many women are sensitive about this stuff because of the way they were raised and the expectations they have men. Course, I'm sure if it was a GG doing the borrowing, some GG's would have less of a problem.

Some people may be offended or thinking I am judging them. This thread is not targeted at anyone in particular. I regret that some people might feel the OP was an attack on them personally.

There is general confusion and misinformation about CD's among the general public. The point of the thread is not to judge or condemn people but discuss solutions to the problem. What I am attacking is the media using these situations to paint CD's with a broad brush: that all CD's steal women clothing, that all CD's are home burglars or that CD's are gay or pedophiles.

Instead of getting upset about what someone posts, who we will probably never meet in real life, should we not use this thread to discuss possible solutions without condemning?

There is so much misinformation out there because of how the media reports on cross dressers. Because of that, our SO, GF's, and other GG friends might have faulty assumptions when they find us in women's clothing or they find them in our personal things.

[Janet Bern]

My advice to all CDers .. "Buy your own clothes" Besides being yours they will fit

[Karren H]

Yeah yeah yeah!! Stealing is bad... Bad bad bad... Like we don't know that... But I guess for young crossdressers who don't have the means to make money to buy stuff... It would be better if they go out and steal money to buy their feminine things?? That's so much better, imho! Lol.

[AKAMichelle]

I have to admit that I did similar things when I was young and before I could buy my own clothes.

[Marissa]

Yes, stealing and borrowing, without consent (or implied consent) is bad and no one should do that..or resort to stealing (breaking into a house or taking when acting as an invited guest), etc to fulfill a desire.. that is my stance..and now for the rest of the story :)


Some people may be offended or thinking I am judging them. This thread is not targeted at anyone in particular. I regret that some people might feel the OP was an attack on them personally.

Even though I know the points you bring up are valid..and you don't mean to offend.. but I think most (if any) offense will be from the tone of what you say.. You have been a member here for about 11 months and should have seen threads that were started about "what was the first piece of attire you put on and at what age?" or some countless similiar titles... if you read them, you would see where many 'borrowed' or 'stole' items (from their own home) to fulfill a desire or a need. Even that is not right, but its what someone resorted to because they did not have that support..and for some, it was a way to prevent from being beaten or kicked out of a house. Even some adults (over 18) living at home are afraid of the circumstances so they do what seems to be harmless..borrowing mom/sis/so/gf's items to get that feeling that we seem to cherish.. Maybe its finances or the fear of being outed and dealing with the ramifications..who knows??? Oh yeah, the person living it.. I said TONE, because you did judge them with your first post..they are theives or monsters (rotten apples), they are bad.

Yes, its wrong..yes they need to purchase their own items.. As I would suggest without driving a thorn in the side.

There is general confusion and misinformation about CD's among the general public. The point of the thread is not to judge or condemn people but discuss solutions to the problem. What I am attacking is the media using these situations to paint CD's with a broad brush: that all CD's steal women clothing, that all CD's are home burglars or that CD's are gay or pedophiles.

Instead of getting upset about what someone posts, who we will probably never meet in real life, should we not use this thread to discuss possible solutions without condemning?

There is so much misinformation out there because of how the media reports on cross dressers. Because of that, our SO, GF's, and other GG friends might have faulty assumptions when they find us in women's clothing or they find them in our personal things.

The media will paint whatever picture that sales.. today there will be thousands of MEN with beards walking down the street in a dress or skirt..boots/heels..whatever.. and not a media camera to tarnish the cd communitee.. but for all the women and men (adults and children) that see them will take some sort of impression of cds.. good or bad.. So do we condemn these men for doing what they feel is right to them? Are we to set the standard of what it is to be a crossdresser????? Are we who decides what is TOLARATED or not? Hmmmm I seem to remember a group that thought like that.. anyway..

I do commend you for the passion you so openly display about the cd community so please don't think I'm trying to minimize that.. :)


Again..some of this is based on tone.. and I can't say it enough that I agree, stealing or borrowing without consent is wrong.. So please if you do either of these actions, don't.. try to find another way to fulfill your desires..

These are my thoughts and should be viewed as such..not the majority or minority..just mine :)

Hugs,
Marissa

[Angie G]

Well said hun.Men are so dumb sometimes. When I want to wear something of my wife's I always ask and it's never underwear.:hugs:
Angie

[Sedona]

. . .being asked if they're pregnant? Ooops, carry on. . .

[juno]

I think CD get started "borrowing" clothes when they are very young, and have no clue about going out to buy their own. It would help a lot if parents of young CDs would all buy clothing for them. However, there is no excuse once you are old enough to buy your own. Maybe we need underwear/lingerie vending machines to make it easier to start buying.

[Michelle 51]

I agree that we should own our own things and if we're adults like those men you mention its disgusting to wear someones underwear but when your 3 yrs old and see undies laying there and feel this strange urge to wear them and get pleasure from it it's pretty hard to go get your own.I stole a pair of my mothers for myself and never returned them.Wrong i know but i was 3.

[victoriamwilliams1]

Vetobob,
GG's are not the only ones offended by this behavior. Stealing or borrowing without permission is wrong on many levels.This not only includes underwear but any article that belongs to another.
Danni

I agree with Danni! I have also purchased my own clothes and undies. I have taken the cast off that where heading for the dump:)

[2B Natasha]

When I was a young adult I borrowed articales of clothing. Yes, it was wrong. Now. I have made it a point to not borrow anything from the future wife. Up to and including if she even says it's ok to do. Take last night as an example. We where at home getting ready to settle in and get cozy for the evening. She notices I am looking in the closet for anything besides jeans to wear. Opens her dresser and pulls out a pair of satin baby blue pjs and says. "Here. You can wear these ". Nope. Ain't gonna happen. I don't wear her clothes. I've been down that road before and I didn't like what I saw in the mirror when I got to the end.

[Andy66]

. . .being asked if they're pregnant? Ooops, carry on. . .
Tee-hee! Good one. XD I guess we could write a good-sized thread about what offends people.

Of course little children don't know any better, but adults should. Also, I agree that what's good for the goose is good for the gander. If he can't steal her clothes, she shouldn't steal his either.

So I think one constructive question asked was, in the midst of all the clothes pilfering going on in the world, how can we improve CDs' public image? Personally I think sometimes you can only improve the world one person at a time. All of us good upstanding people have to stay on our best behavior and let the world see that, as much as we are each able to do so. That way people can see that we're not all perverts and nuts. People fear the unknown. The more they know, the less they will have to fear.

[BiancaEstrella]

I always make it clear to any woman I'm seeing that I would never take anything of hers without her knowing it beforehand, but also to not ever really expect me to ask. Because of my height and my size (everywhere), it's usually more productive to ask where ______ came from, and if it may exist in my size.

[amy canada]

I think genetic women are also offended that we get to choose what size breasts we want while they have to stick with what God gave them. Then again, we bought our breast forms and GGs can buy extra padding as well.

[JessiRed]

I was talking to my sister this evening. I did not mention my occasional cross dressing but I learned she had some bad experiences with cross dressers.
First one of her ex's kept stealing her clothes, including her underwear. And then, a few years later, she caught one of her neighbors doing the same thing, red handed.

Stealing and putting on other people's undies is very unsanitary and theft of clothing or anything else is always bad. People should always buy their own stuff.

She did mention being upset that her ex kept trying to be a girl, but reading through the lines, it seemed she was most upset that he was stealing and using her clothes without her consent.

People need to do the right thing. Regardless of what you like to wear, you should be honest enough to go out and buy your own, instead of stealing other people's. People who steal clothing from women, whether from their spouses, sisters, or by breaking into their neighbors' homes, are rotten apples that make the CD community look bad.
This behavior helps to spread negative stereotypes and negatives views of men who wear women's clothing. It something the CD/trans community should not tolerate.

The only person in this group you have identified that I have a problem with are those who are breaking and entering. IMO though, those people are most guilty of B&E and should not be associated with CDing at that time. Whether you intended to or not, you just called 90% of the CDers in the world "rotten apples"

Of course we shouldn't borrow from family or spouses if they don't know, but frankly that's how most of us started, I know that's what I did at first. Was it wrong? Yes. Am I a bad apple? No.

[ReineD]

Uhhhmmm..... I find the stealing of personal items for personal use by genetic girls really obnoxious at times. Every time I buy a new bag or accessory, jewelery or even skin care:eek: my lovely Elizabeth:love: just simply treats them as her own and uses them:bonk:. Can you imagine:daydreaming:

That's a good point! :)

I've often seen threads here where TGs are either happy, or they good-naturedly tolerate their wives borrowing or wearing their stuff. I always felt I should ask my SO if I wanted to wear her blue nightie, but she was always very happy for me to wear it to the point where she said I didn't even have to ask.

Yet I well understand a GG for not wanting her husband to wear her things. Whether he asks or not I suppose depends on how freely they share everything else in their lives. Some couples are OK with sharing a toothbrush in a crunch, while others would find this disgusting. Some couples borrow each others' cell phones indiscriminately while others would cringe if a spouse should do this.

Back to the clothes: other than the size difference (which is a no-brainer, since nobody wants their clothes stretched), why do you think TGs are more tolerant of their wives wearing their stuff than the reverse? Or do some of you also feel your boundaries are stepped on if the wife or gf helps herself to clothes, accessories, or makeup without asking? Would you be OK if she used some of your other possessions?

I honestly don't know the answer to this.

[t-girlxsophie]

Its a no-brainer,of course taking of SO/relatives etc clothing,make-up is WRONG (caps just incase you missed it)I was as guilty as anyone,but what of the 8 year old who has these strange feelings for Girlie things,he cant exactly run to the mall and spend his pocket money,what is he to do,just suck it up,resist the urges for the next 10 years till he gets his own place and ready cash,yeah do that it MAY! turn out ok.

I think some of us forget just how strange and difficult it was starting on this mad,crazy journey.Remember the Grown ups can get their heads round things (mostly),but the child?

:hugs:Sophie

[Andy66]

I don't think Vetobob was saying anything negative about children. Children obviously have different resources and a different way of thinking (hopefully) than adults. This is about adults who behave in an inconsiderate way.

[Marissa]

Andy, I agree that it was not the intent to say anything negative about children on the thread's startup.. my comments on children was more to emphasize that feeling a child of 8 (give or take a few years) feels about wanting/needing to try something fem on and only has one course of action..to borrow.. this happens at other stages of age..young teens.. and even those as adults 18-20's (no i'm not trying to center around an age..just age of adulthood) living at home.. who may have the same feelings as that young child.

Hugs,
Marissa

[Andy66]

I agree, Marissa. A lot depends on maturity and resources. Some teenagers and twenty-something year olds are more grown-up than others. But I would be more annoyed with my 22 year old son now if he borrowed clothes without asking, than I would if he had done it at age 15. I know that he knows better.

Haha, we wear close to the same size, but most of my clothes are men's anyway. If he wanted to crossdress, it would be kind of slim pickings. :doh:

[ReineD]

but what of the 8 year old who has these strange feelings for Girlie things,he cant exactly run to the mall and spend his pocket money,what is he to do,just suck it up,resist the urges for the next 10 years till he gets his own place and ready cash,

I think most people can appreciate a child sneaking into his sister's and mom's room to try on her stuff. Certainly until he's old enough to get a part time job and begin to have a better idea of personal boundaries.

I'm quite sure the discussion here is about adult men doing this.

[Jari]

its difficult to know what a 14 yr old is supposed to do when the 'feelings' first emerge - for me it just felt so natural to borrow my sisters clothes but i totally understand why she was annoyed when she found out. It all added to the feelings of shame and negativity at the time but I dont know what the alternative was really other than borrowing.

[Kylie666]

I would never wear or take my girlfriends clothes, To me it just feels wrong, Now i have tried on a dress or two that she never wears anymore as we was trying to see what size dress i should buy without wasting to much time at the store, Our guess is a size 18 or 20 :battingeyelashes:

I do have some of my sisters/mom's OLD clothes they tossed out, Like shirts and bras but NO!! underwear "that's just sick" lol And even the Bras are like bras they got and it did not fit so it's NOT like some old nasty bra :)

I have placed my Girlfriends bra on my head once lol but i was just being funny and said "Look it's so big i could wear it like a hat" :D

[Alice Torn]

I admit that i borrowed my sisters and moms stuff, but never panties. At age 14. I also fess up to something I did when working in a customers house, when no one was there! In the master bathroom, a bunch of dresses and pants were hanging. I saw a black dress, one the style i would like to buy, and, i tried it on, for a minute or two, then put it back. A real no-no!! That was about five years ago. Also, I stayed at a house alone, for several months, that had lots of ladies clothes , formerly owned by a lady, who passed away. The clothes were going to be thrown away, or given to charity. Many were clothes that syles i liked, and i did try many on. No undies, though, other than hose. After awile, i stopped doing it, felt it was wrong, and left them alone, especially after two roommates came. I only buy my own now.

[Andy66]

its difficult to know what a 14 yr old is supposed to do when the 'feelings' first emerge - for me it just felt so natural to borrow my sisters clothes but i totally understand why she was annoyed when she found out. It all added to the feelings of shame and negativity at the time but I dont know what the alternative was really other than borrowing.
Awww... :hugs: That's exactly what we're talking about, sweetie. You were doing the best you could do at the time. Not your fault. But now you're older and wiser. :)

[Sophie86]

People who steal clothing from women, whether from their spouses, sisters, or by breaking into their neighbors' homes, are rotten apples that make the CD community look bad.

I prefer to be judged as an individual. If this subject comes up again between you and your sister, you can tell her that for me.

[Kathryn Martin]

Lets run a little twist on this issue because we seem to mix stealing (moral issue) with borrowing (debt issue) with wearing underwear (hygiene issue). Most of what has been described here as "borrowing" is actually stealing. Tell me if a 16 year old girl, who happens to be your daughter steals your electric razor and then hides it because she understands she has done something wrong and it vanishes until four months later, is that stealing? Borrowing? Should she be ostracized. Is she the rotten apple in the barrel of appropriate moral behavior? And don't tell me she is a child. She knows right from wrong. It just was so tempting to smooth her legs that she could not resist. Is that immoral? when do you get taken to task for immorality? What if your spouse has to leave for two weeks and asks you to wear her panties while she is gone, is that borrowing, lending or unhygienic.

It is not a moral issue unless you break and enter into someone else' house. If you do to steal woman's clothes you really need therapy while you're in jail and my greatest concern would be your mental welfare. If you "borrow" someones clothes without the knowledge of the lender, it would make me sad, because you are obviously under so much pressure and fear, that I want to take you in my arms and protect you. If you borrow as a counterpoint to lending with the lenders knowledge, you just did what millions of people do on this planet every day, because they either cannot afford new underwear for their second, third child or their spouse and that's all you got, they may wear it on their heads so they can feel closer to their loved one by inhaling the fragrance of their bodies, or they may just press it to their hearts in memory, love or need.

This contrived and artificial manufacturing of moral issues is a sad state of affairs and sometimes I wish we had the generosity of spirit to see it for what it is.

Kathryn

[Elizabeth Martin]

Some couples are OK with sharing a toothbrush in a crunch, while others would find this disgusting.

EWWWWWWW. Never the toothbrush! :puke:

My underwear? Meh. No problem.

[ReineD]

Well, when you think about it, couples do kiss ... :D


EDIT - Not fair! You added your second line after I posted just my first!

For me, toothbrush = iffy, but acceptable in a crunch. Underwear = OK, but only with my SO. Certainly not a brother or a neighbor. :p

[sterling12]

I am glancing through all of these replies, and I agree that most of The Time it's simply Stealing! Children taking something from Mom or Sis may be viewed with more tolerance, and that's understandable. But, if I were Mom or Sis; I am pretty sure that I would have A Talk with This Child trying to make them understand that we need to try something different. Inotherwords, I would try to help them to get their own clothes and make them understand that taking/borrowing from others was wrong. And, I would be making an effort to stop this behavior before it became inculcated as an Adult!

Something I noticed. I don't believe that anyone has even mentioned The Idea of Good Manners. Even if your Spouse lets you "borrow," it's always a good idea to ask permission first. That's just showing respect for The Other Person, and I imagine that we have gotten so far away from "civility," that this doesn't even occur to anyone. That's too bad, it's why we live in such an "Uncivil World." Would also be nice if you said "please" before, and "thank you," when you returned that item.

Peace and Love, Joanie

[Elizabeth Martin]

Well, when you think about it, couples do kiss ... :D


EDIT - Not fair! You added your second line after I posted just my first!

For me, toothbrush = iffy, but acceptable in a crunch. Underwear = OK, but only with my SO. Certainly not a brother or a neighbor. :p

:tongueout

I'd share underwear with a brother before sharing a toothbrush with anyone.

[Kathryn Martin]

Something I noticed. I don't believe that anyone has even mentioned The Idea of Good Manners. Even if your Spouse lets you "borrow," it's always a good idea to ask permission first. That's just showing respect for The Other Person, and I imagine that we have gotten so far away from "civility," that this doesn't even occur to anyone. That's too bad, it's why we live in such an "Uncivil World." Would also be nice if you said "please" before, and "thank you," when you returned that item.

Peace and Love, Joanie

I cannot even begin to tell you how much I appreciate this part of your post.

Lending something one time does not open the door to profligate borrowing. Most of us human beings would help each other if the need got so great that we could not contain it. And if they don't then the answer is clear anyway. This issue however has nothing to do with whether you are a GG, MtF, FtM, or a 16 year old girl or boy. Let's face it we all did it at some point in our lives and hopefully someone explained to us that respect for the other is most important.

Thanks

Kathryn

[ReineD]

:tongueout

I'd share underwear with a brother before sharing a toothbrush with anyone.

I meant only with the person you kiss :tongueout

The germs are being shared anyway! And I'd only share in a crunch, with lots of rinsing, as in "I forgot to bring my toothbrush". It's better than NOT brushing at all. :)

[Kathryn Martin]

I meant only with the person you kiss :tongueout

The germs are being shared anyway! And I'd only share in a crunch, with lots of rinsing, as in "I forgot to bring my toothbrush". It's better than NOT brushing at all. :)

Too many unspeakable images come to mind:facepalm:

[Tamara Croft]

:puke: I can't imagine anyone using my toothbrush, even the person you kiss... urgh...

As for 'borrowing' clothes, as long as it's not my underwear, I don't mind, as long as it's washed and put back, but touch my underwear :gg: that's a no no for me!

[Alice B]

I'm in total agreement. Ask and if that is not an option, then forget it!

[sometimes_miss]

There are so many gray areas here...a lot of us start off as kids by using our sisters or other relative's clothing to dress up in, simply because there is no other option. And it's for a variety of reasons; I envied my sister and wanted to be like her. My abuser would borrow his sisters clothing to dress me up in, and return it, well, I don't know where. I would like to think to the laundry pile, but I never really knew. As I grew up, I took my sister's things that she grew out of or simply wouldn't wear anymore; yes, it was still hers, but she wasn't using it so I didn't see the harm. In retrospect, sure, it would always have been a better choice to have my own girl clothes, but until I was an adult it really wasn't an option. Do I feel bad for using their clothes? In a way, I certainly felt a little guilty for wearing my abuser's younger sister's clothes, but then again, she was one of the few females that was nice to me, and so I wanted to be closer to her anyway, and wearing her clothes was one way to do that; I often fantasized about what it would have been like to be her, and usually wished that I was. As always, it was usually very difficult for me to take off the clothing and go back to being the boy I really was.

As an adult, I always wore my own. Never borrowed.

[Tranny Tee]

Big girls buy their own panties.

[Lucy_Bella]

Yeah yeah yeah!! Stealing is bad... Bad bad bad... Like we don't know that... But I guess for young crossdressers who don't have the means to make money to buy stuff... It would be better if they go out and steal money to buy their feminine things?? That's so much better, imho! Lol.

I knew of a kid who was caught stealing clothes from a clothesline, he was in the closet up until that point ..His story was printed out the next day in the local newspaper, it also included that in his trunk was many other clothing he has stolen from other people..His parents had to go to the police station to pick him up, I bet he never stoled another item..

[Annaliese2010]

Stealing clothes is criminal behavior. Wow I could never do that. Plus its gross. I mean... LOL... puhlease! God if anyone took my guy-undies OR my panties I sure wouldn't want em back! Ew...

[vetobob9]

I think CD get started "borrowing" clothes when they are very young, and have no clue about going out to buy their own. It would help a lot if parents of young CDs would all buy clothing for them. However, there is no excuse once you are old enough to buy your own. Maybe we need underwear/lingerie vending machines to make it easier to start buying.

Yes. I am referring to the older ones who are married.
For the young, it is one thing to borrow from your sister or your mother, but it's still a criminal act to break into your neighbor's home for any reason. There is no legitimate excuse for anyone to engage in what is clearly home invasion robbery. If the young must borrow, they should do so only from the relatives who live in the same home as they do.

When you break into someone else's home you are violating their rights and you putting yourself in grave jeopardy because some states have laws that if you catch a stranger in your home going through your stuff, you have the right to shoot them.
In other states, they will force you to register as a sex offender.

Some people have lost their spouses after their spouses caught them wearing her clothes.

Everyone has the right to engage in hobbies such as cding but no one has the right to just take from total strangers nor the right to violate the rights of others in order to assuage their hobby.

One's rights are limited by the rights of others.

[vetobob9]

I agree that we should own our own things and if we're adults like those men you mention its disgusting to wear someones underwear but when your 3 yrs old and see undies laying there and feel this strange urge to wear them and get pleasure from it it's pretty hard to go get your own.I stole a pair of my mothers for myself and never returned them.Wrong i know but i was 3.

I should have said I was referring to adults. Minors are not going to be able to buy hteir own until adulthood. But youngest adults may not be used to buying their own stuff.
An adult who is 22 is still a minor when it comes to experience in the CD world. The sooner they acquire the confidence to buy their own things, on their own time, the better off they will be.

This is something people have to develop over time. One technique, when just starting out, is to simply say you are buying them for you girlfirend or your sister.

[eluuzion]

One of the important things I learned about raising a girl is that when they are old enough, you let them fight their own battles with siblings. When my daughter used to come over to begin each weekend, the phone would ring about 15 minutes later. It was always her sister wondering if my daughter “borrowed” some of her clothes without asking. After two weekends of getting dragged into a battle that was not mine to fight…I instituted a new rule. “Stay out of it”. It appears this is just a normal phase of the “territory wars” which siblings are best left alone to resolve.

As to the “borrowing without asking”…which to me is like calling a janitor a “maintenance engineer”…lol…I agree with the logic of first considering the age appropriate perspective that surrounds the “crime” before using a hammer to swat a fly.
A teen scavenging through a sister’s clothes is one thing. An adult neighbor doing the same is a whole different ball game.

I started this adventure much later in life (in my 30’s) than many people here, making this topic is a moot point in my case. But I will admit to ripping off the heads of a few of my sister’s Barbie dolls a time or two. Lol:devil:

The first “dress” I put on was one of my (ex) wife’s that had been discarded in the trash. Although it was exhilarating initially, the fact that it belonged to my wife kind of launched me into thinking about the movie “Psycho” and stuff, which totally “wigged me out”. I started thinking …”hey, it’s one thing to be discovered with a dress. It’s a whole new dimension potentially…being discovered with a family member’s clothes. (like a wife, a mother…or God forbid…a daughter’s). All kinds of perverted misconceptions could be attached to those scenarios, although there would be no truth to them. So, off came the dress and that was the last time I went down that road…I bought my own…:brolleyes:

[docrobbysherry]

If in fact, "The ONE THING that offended GGs WAS the stealing or borrowing of their clothes", I believe the following would also be fact:

1. The divorce rate would be closer 5% rather than over 50%.

2. Viagra wouldn't be needed by anyone under 75.

3. The entire porn industry mite bring in a total of about $1,000,000 a year.

4. Psychologists would only be teaching.

5. This site probably wouldn't exist.

I can think of HUNDREDS of other things that mite offend them. Certainly too many to list here!
And, MOST of them r brought on by self centered and/or clueless MEN!:eek:

[Rianna Humble]

one thing genetic women are offended by


I must DISAGREE, Bob! If in fact, "The ONE THING that offended GGs WAS the stealing or borrowing of their clothes", I believe the following would also be fact:
(list removed)

I can think of HUNDREDS of other things that mite offend them. Certainly too many to list here!

In actual fact you are not disagreeing with what Bob wrote at all because Bob never wrote "The one thing" which would imply that there were no others, he wrote "one thing" which implies that there are others.

[Byanca]

I should have said I was referring to adults. Minors are not going to be able to buy hteir own until adulthood. But youngest adults may not be used to buying their own stuff.
An adult who is 22 is still a minor when it comes to experience in the CD world. The sooner they acquire the confidence to buy their own things, on their own time, the better off they will be.

This is something people have to develop over time. One technique, when just starting out, is to simply say you are buying them for you girlfirend or your sister.
I agree. But the primary responsibility lies with parents to teach their kids to buy their own clothes. It's not an inherent capability to adhere to human invented laws. Especially when one is thought that it is wrong to do something that is right, so parents are not following the law..... It's actually the right thing to do, to steal, make a wrong right, if it's not accepted.

If you need food and it's overflowing in the rich peoples house, you take it. It's normal human behaviour. Sure. It sucks for the novelty, but they will get over it. They steal more from the peasants.

http://benturner.com/robinhood/pic_foodlabel.jpg

[Stormgirl]

Put yourself in her shoes OP, would YOu like it if somebody kept stealing your clothes and underwear? I know I wouldn't like it.

For those that know me(that I'm a MTF TS), I usually ask where did they get such and such article and buy it for myself. Stealing is wrong period!

[Byanca]

Stealing is wrong period!
Sure. But imo good police work(or parenting) is preventing stealing. Not punishment. I've never believed in that.


Put yourself in her shoes OP, would YOu like it if somebody kept stealing your clothes and underwear? I know I wouldn't like it.
me neither. I would like better to give them away.

[Marilyn Beck]

Back to the clothes: other than the size difference (which is a no-brainer, since nobody wants their clothes stretched), why do you think TGs are more tolerant of their wives wearing their stuff than the reverse? Or do some of you also feel your boundaries are stepped on if the wife or gf helps herself to clothes, accessories, or makeup without asking? Would you be OK if she used some of your other possessions?


As a matter of moral principle, there should be no double standard about CDers stealing from their wives or vice versa. Stealing is wrong. However, I would take some pleasure if my wife helped herself to my feminine items because it would tend to validate my CDing, which she begrudingly accepts. I would get a kick from the fact that the stolen item is good enough to be desired by a GG. I could also point out that having items for her to borrow is an advantage of having a CDing husband. On the other hand, if I were to steal or borrow her feminine things, she would perceive it as another bad thing about having a CDing husband.

After 31 years of marriage, my wife and I take certain liberties with each other that would not be acceptable with other people. We have pretty much figured out where the boundaries are and which items are fair game to be borrowed. For example, I don't mind a bit if she uses my blow dryer, but I get annoyed when she uses my computer.

[drushin703]

in my early days (puberty) a large part of my invention was finding something that I had never found
befor and putting it against my skin.curiousity placed me in my mothers room ,when she was away,
and had me try on one of her satin paneled , long leg girdles.what a fantastic feeling.what I invented
for myself was crossdrressing without any outside stimulus or influence from any other person..and
I, thruout the years, have been truly proud of it.at least until I read this post.steeling is such a charged
and powerful word and we should be careful to not associate it, EVER, with discovery.........dana.

[Rianna Humble]

I think a lot of emotive language has been used in this thread which loses sight of the original post's point. To my mind when children experiment with a sibling's or a parent's clothes, they are committing the lesser offence of Taking Without the Owner's Consent - which under English law at least is dealt with differently from stealing (especially stealing for profit).

When an adult takes a partner's stuff without asking to keep for his/her own, that can be categorised as stealing. Even if they later give it back, they have still profited from the theft.

[Kaz]

"Back to the clothes: other than the size difference (which is a no-brainer, since nobody wants their clothes stretched), why do you think TGs are more tolerant of their wives wearing their stuff than the reverse? Or do some of you also feel your boundaries are stepped on if the wife or gf helps herself to clothes, accessories, or makeup without asking? Would you be OK if she used some of your other possessions?"

Hi again ReineD,

This for me is simple... if my SO borrowed my clothes it becomes a form of acceptance. This is of course potentially naive and it depends on how old you are.

But my "borrowing" from her without her knowledge, which of course I have done and most of us have at some stage of our "journey", is completely moraly indefensible. They are two very different positions.

I am not in the position you are in. My SO knows but I am in the "It's OK as long as it doesn't touch normal life mode" stage, so I don't share my wardrobe...

But... at the beginning you kind of do wear your SO's.. or your mother's knickers (depending on circumstance)... then you buy your own... and that is so much more rewarding!

It is a great sense of relief when you buy your own... I remember that day well, even though it was long ago.

But then you have find a place to put it!

Best Kaz xx

[BLUE ORCHID]

Rule no. 1 Don't borrow your SO's clothes!
Rule no. 2 If you feel you must borrow your SO's clothes see rule no. 1again!

Orchid

[Kathryn Martin]

That's a good point! :) Back to the clothes: other than the size difference (which is a no-brainer, since nobody wants their clothes stretched), why do you think TGs are more tolerant of their wives wearing their stuff than the reverse? Or do some of you also feel your boundaries are stepped on if the wife or gf helps herself to clothes, accessories, or makeup without asking? Would you be OK if she used some of your other possessions?

Reine, thank you for the nod although I am not sure I deserved it:o. I added this point because I tried to make light of the question. I have to say this discussion is so outside of common human sense. Of course within a family unit everyone constantly borrows stuff from each other with or without the knowledge of the owner. I am sorry but I simply cannot draw any distinction between Martin borrowing Elizabeth's pen when he needs to sign a check or Elizabeth borrowing my bag while I am in the office, Anna using my face wash while I am still asleep and Kathryn trying to see if a 32E of Elizabeth fits her (which it of course doesn't and she knew that but just thought it was cool to confirm that the band does not go around her chest), but was bought by Martin and recently borrowed by ....... According to this theory here, we should all be in jail, after which we will transferred straight to hell to eventually atone over millions of years in purgatory.

This is just so silly. There is something else at work if this is really a boundary issue which in my estimation has nothing to do with personal morals but with the transition of an SO or others into a world where the TG person is actually real in their life. If it is a boundary, then we must say so, and the behavior will likely stop. Elizabeth can have my last shirt, man or woman shirt, I'll give it to her, I will wrap it around her for any reason whatsoever. Except of course, toothbrush:D

[Leslie Langford]

...Back to the clothes: other than the size difference (which is a no-brainer, since nobody wants their clothes stretched), why do you think TGs are more tolerant of their wives wearing their stuff than the reverse? Or do some of you also feel your boundaries are stepped on if the wife or gf helps herself to clothes, accessories, or makeup without asking...?

I honestly don't know the answer to this.

At the risk of saying something that may well be construed as being politically incorrect, I think that it has a lot to do with the way most GG's are socialized from birth to expect to be sought after and treated like princesses - starting right with being "Daddy's little girl..." while still in diapers. This give them a sense of entitlement that carries over into adulthood and into all other aspects of their lives, and one that - except for the more narcissistic among us - doesn't seem as prevalent in genetic males.

We agonize continuously here over whether or not to use women's fitting rooms or washrooms when out en femme, but it has been my experience that GG's use the same type of opposite sex facilities when so inclined without giving it a second thought. If I had a nickel for each time I saw or heard a a teen-aged girl in the men's fitting room trying on men's jeans or shirts (since it is so much "cooler" to wear the real deal as opposed to the feminine version) I'd be the proverbial rich man. And as for using the men's room, well, if the line-ups in front of the women's washrooms are too long for their liking and "when ya gotta go, ya gotta go!", then the beeline is straight to the men's room with, at best, a perfunctory "May I, it's an emergency?" before barging in. When was the last time anyone saw a non-crossdressing genetic male having the cojones to do the same thing?

Of course, the ultimate manifestation of this is when our preference for wearing opposite sex clothing is called "crossdressing" and often raises eyebrows (if not outright derision), whereas for GG's to dress in men's clothing is considered to be edgy, risque, and fashion-forward - in fact, downright admirable - as it allegedly demonstrates very visibly that she wants to be treated like "one of the guys". That's generally considered to be a "good" thing, and somewhere along the way, it evolved that being a "girly" girl is not something most GG's aspire to in today's world. A case of "if you can't beat them, join them", perhaps?

[t-girlxsophie]

My wife and I Made the arrangement early on that we could borrow each others clothes-with the exception of undies (thats is just a little eeugh)and wash them after wearing.as long as between you both,you set the bounderies and always adhere to them.That shouldnt present a problem

[PretzelGirl]

My wife and my daughter have shared clothing in the past. So in the path of a family tradition we go.... But my rule is to ask. And for my daughter, who comes and goes in a flash, she does tell my wife when I am not around. So you look at the advantages. As others have said, this is a big sign of acceptance. Would a non-accepting family member want to put your clothes on? Then it is a validation of your choices of style. Some of us are behind the power curve on selecting styles as we are just starting out, relatively speaking. So if something gets borrowed, it must have some taste and relevance. Last, I now know I can get my daughter a lot of layering camis this Christmas as she really seems to need some. :heehee: