"Yeah, he's pretty good at girly stuff"

[Kathi Lake]

Out of the mouth of babes, indeed! :)

My wife is gone to YARC (Yet Another Research Conference). Minneapolis, then Dallas. I get to be mom yet again. Honestly though, I love it. :)

My 10 year-old daughter was invited to a party of another girl in her school. This school is an incredible private school. To me, the best part about this school (other than her education, of course :)) is that a lot of pilots from the local Air Force base send their kids there. Have you ever seen pilots' wives?! They're kind of between an astronaut's wife and a trophy wife on the hotness scale. They all look like they were bred specifically to be smart, accomplished, utterly pleasing to the eye, and very, very feminine.

Over the years, I've loved getting to know these women as I help at bake sales, plays, field trips, being room mom with them, etc. It's funny to watch the other guys huddle over in their group, occasionally casting glances over at me and the other "chattering bunch of women." I've brought it up to them a few times and they just say, "Oh, they're just jealous" or "Well, I doubt they like talking about kids and clothes and makeup like you do." :)

As I was talking with my wife tonight after one of her presentations, I told her that I was getting ready to take the daughter to her birthday party. My wife apologized that she hadn't bought a gift or anything. I told her I took care of it today, and not to worry - she had trained me right.

Anyway, since I was going to be with these Queen Bees tonight, I made sure to prepare with my "usual" uniform. I was wearing my cute pair of skinny jeans, had put on light eyeshadow, liner and mascara, and a touch of gloss. It's a look that goes right over a guy's head, but a woman will clue in on instantly, or so I've been told. I made it to the party place about five minutes early. While our daughters were hugging each other and squealing at the outfits (it was a decade-themed party), the Queen Bees and I chatted for a bit. One of them - who is probably a triple-0, if that - moaned that I always made her feel fat whenever she saw me. We all cried BS on that, told her she was gorgeous, etc. Must've been a "fat day." :)

We went into the fun center and generally supervised the girls. Once it was time for cake and presents, we herded them all to the table. The cake was eaten (my gosh! You wouldn't believe how much a group of 10 year-old girls can pack away. It was like watching a school of piranhas devour a cebu! :)). Once the food was done, it was time for presents. When they got to my daughter's gift, the mom said, "Wow, pretty wrapping!" When the present was opened, both the daughter and the mom gushed that it was perfect (I got her some really cute hair accessories and some matching nail polish). The mom asked my daughter, "Did your mom pick the gift out and wrap it?" My daughter said that no, her dad did. The mom turned to me with a huge smile and upraised eyebrows and said, "Oh reeeeeeealy?" "Yeah" my daughter said, "He's pretty good at girly stuff." The mom smiled and nodded, and another one said, "Yeah, we've noticed" as they all burst into giggles.

As Sara Jessica puts it, we all seem to leak/ooze/exude "femme" or whatever you call it. It always amazes me how some seem to pick up on it. It also amazes me how some never do.

So, that's my story for today. It seemed pretty humorous to me. In case you're wondering, my daughter doesn't know that I dress, but she just knows, if you know what I mean.

:)

Kathi

[VeronicaMoonlit]

Anyway, since I was going to be with these Queen Bees tonight, I made sure to prepare with my "usual" uniform. I was wearing my cute pair of skinny jeans,

We're they women's skinny jeans? :-)


had put on light eyeshadow, liner and mascara, and a touch of gloss. It's a look that goes right over a guy's head, but a woman will clue in on instantly, or so I've been told.

I'm not for certain doing that is a good thing...yeah I know, the VeronicaMoonlit is actually saying that. Is your wife okay with it? Also it might lead to ummm, the Pilot Wife version of the Gorgeous Gossip Patrol figuring you out and then "word getting around" before you're prepared or ready for that. Then again.....if I was in your position...I might have told them already and showed up in full hair and makeup wearing a pencil skirt and kitten heels.


The mom asked my daughter, "Did your mom pick the gift out and wrap it?" My daughter said that no, her dad did. The mom turned to me with a huge smile and upraised eyebrows and said, "Oh reeeeeeealy?" "Yeah" my daughter said, "He's pretty good at girly stuff." The mom smiled and nodded, and another one said, "Yeah, we've noticed" as they all burst into giggles.

Personally I think you should get one of the Pilot Wife Room Mom Gorgeous Gossip Patrol in private in ask her about the "Yeah, we noticed".



As Sara Jessica puts it, we all seem to leak/ooze/exude "femme" or whatever you call it. It always amazes me how some seem to pick up on it. It also amazes me how some never do.

I've actually tried to reduce the exude-ness, until I'm more ready. Which makes me sad, but is probably a good thing.


So, that's my story for today. It seemed pretty humorous to me. In case you're wondering, my daughter doesn't know that I dress, but she just knows, if you know what I mean.

Well she knows you're good at girly stuff. How does your wife feel about perhaps telling her?

Veronica

[sissystephanie]

Kathi, you and I are a lot alike. Except that you are much younger, and Waaaaay better looking! And your daughter certainly knows that you have a feminine streak!!

I have two grown children, who were not told of my CD'ing until this year! My late wife and I had decided before we had children not to tell them, but after she passed away I thought I should. My daughter said she was not surprised, since she had though for some time that I might be a CD. When I asked her why she thought that, her reply was that it was because I knew so much girly stuff!! And also that I picked out most of her mom's (my wife) clothes in the stores. My wife preferred to take me clothes shopping with her, because she always liked the items I picked out. Of course, I always picked out quite feminine articles because my late wife was very feminine. And I prefer to wear feminine things my self!! Never could wear hers, as she was a size 10 and I wear size 16!!

I did have similar experiences to yours at parties when my daughter was much younger. Not so much with my son, but even then I spent more time with the women!!

[Annaliese2010]

I like "exude" better. LOL. Intresting story, mom ;)

[Rhonda Jean]

Kathi!!! I love reading your stories, and I wish I could be as comfortable with this stuff as you are, but... really? I'm amazed enough that you sit right there in the local mall and get your makeup done (in drab even!), go to the bank, etc. en femme, you're getting lazer, you're smaller than all but the tiniest of women, and now you're wearing makeup to a school function! I mean, this stuff doesn't happen in a vacuum. You're making yourself the talk of the town! And you're in the frickin' military! My hat's off to ya' girl, but... wow!

I can't help but think we may be seeing a national news story materialize right here on this board! Entertaining, of course, but... be careful out there girl!

[TommyII]

That is the best I've read in a long time. Live long and prosper, oh and give us more to read. Have you thought of writing a book?

[juno]

Kathi,
you are a great writer. Keep up the good work.

When I was in the Army (infantry), I tried to get involved with women's groups, but it just didn't work. I guess that is no surprise for military wives. But, I did co-lead a girl scout troop with my wife, with military girls.

[Kathi Lake]

We're they women's skinny jeans? :-)Well, of course they were! Why wear anything else? They're not too girly looking, and have become my everyday jeans as well.


I'm not for certain doing that is a good thing...True. Maybe the "deprivation" of my going full-out for lo these many months has caused me to be even more brain-dead than usual. I just want a life with no restrictions on my appearance! I want to be who I want to be. Then again, I may gain that, but lose much more. Sigh.


Personally I think you should get one of the Pilot Wife Room Mom Gorgeous Gossip Patrol in private in ask her about the "Yeah, we noticed".Noted. That might just be a good idea - test the waters, so to speak, and find out what they know/think.


Well she knows you're good at girly stuff. How does your wife feel about perhaps telling her?Don't know. Didn't ask. Don't want to go there just yet. My daughter and I kind of kid a lot about it. I call her my Katie-girl, she calls me her daddy-girl. While I'm getting ready to do her nails, she will jokingly pick out a color for me as well. Tonight, after I brought her back from the party, we both changed into comfy jammies. We were snuggling on the couch, and she said, "we're both wearing jammies. Let's have a slumber party! You can do my nails and I can do yours." I reminded her that I am helping my son with his Eagle Scout project in the morning, and pretty nails wouldn't last very long. She agreed. Hers looked pretty, though. :)



. . . your daughter certainly knows that you have a feminine streak!!Always has. She got her mother's perceptive streak. :)


. . . I wish I could be as comfortable with this stuff as you are

. . . be careful out there girl!This, spoken by a woman who is out there essentially 24/7, with pretty hair, shaped brows, and the ability to be who you want to be whenever you want? Rhonda, you are the epitome of comfort! As for my ability to do these things? Both you and Veronica have hit on the reason - I just don't think about it! Never mistake confidence with stupidity. :)

Kathi

[eluuzion]

“The face of a child can say it all, especially the mouth part of the face”.
-Jack Handy

:hugs:

[Rhonda Jean]

Touche'.

Seemed a whole lot crazier when we were talking about you!

[VeronicaMoonlit]

Well, of course they were! Why wear anything else? They're not too girly looking, and have become my everyday jeans as well.

I was hoping you'd say that. :-)


Maybe the "deprivation" of my going full-out for lo these many months has caused me to be even more brain-dead than usual.

Kathi, Kathi, Kathi, no more self deprecation about being brain-dead, missy. I'm the head honcho of low self esteem in these here parts. But more on the "brain-dead" later.


I just want a life with no restrictions on my appearance! I want to be who I want to be.

And who do you want to be?


Then again, I may gain that, but lose much more. Sigh.

I'm sighing with you, lady.



Noted. That might just be a good idea - test the waters, so to speak, and find out what they know/think.

Of course it's a good idea, I thought of it and as I have said before "The VeronicaMoonlit is always right in such matters." :-) That said, you'll want to pick the right member of the PWRMGGP and the right time.


Don't know. Didn't ask. Don't want to go there just yet.

I hear that, but I think you should seriously think about going there sometime. And I think it should be reasonably soon. I'm one of those that believes due to my reading and years in online trannyland that in regards to telling kids, either tell early......or tell late, but not inbetween. The inbetween being high-school years. I'm not saying you tell without discussion with your wife either.


I call her my Katie-girl, she calls me her daddy-girl. While I'm getting ready to do her nails, she will jokingly pick out a color for me as well. Tonight, after I brought her back from the party, we both changed into comfy jammies. We were snuggling on the couch, and she said, "we're both wearing jammies. Let's have a slumber party! You can do my nails and I can do yours."

Awww, how cute. Makes me wish I had a daughter of my own to do the girly-bonding with.


This, spoken by a woman who is out there essentially 24/7, with pretty hair, shaped brows, and the ability to be who you want to be whenever you want? Rhonda, you are the epitome of comfort!

That's telling her!


As for my ability to do these things? Both you and Veronica have hit on the reason - I just don't think about it! Never mistake confidence with stupidity. :)

Kathi

It's not stupidity, Kathi, it's more likely you're "just in the moment" and not thinking about consequences. I know I have been that way at times when I feel "right".


Touche'.

Seemed a whole lot crazier when we were talking about you!

I'm almost as bad, till I toned it back recently (and I'm regretting and resenting the decision to do so)

Veronica

[PretzelGirl]

Kathi, Kathi, Kathi..... I am going to have to start disregarding all of your self evaluations if they are going to be "stupid" and "brain dead". I might have to dicker with ooze or exude also as they infer "slowly". :heehee:

Never let there be a doubt that you aren't afraid to be you and that is great! Make-up on a regular "guy" day. You didn't mention, but does your daughter pick up on that or is all quiet for now? I would think the ladies would and I wouldn't count out all the men even if most are oblivious.

[Sara Jessica]

From the depths of "all the Kathi stuff is boxed up until who knows when" comes another tale that is every bit as entertaining as a Kathi outing thread. You amaze me in how you are able to integrate both sides of your being into something tangible...even though I know you are simply being you.


As Sara Jessica puts it, we all seem to leak/ooze/exude "femme" or whatever you call it.

I'm touched that you remember anything I might say in these parts but if I remember correct, I have to credit our buddy Veronica for the "leaking femme" saying.


It always amazes me how some seem to pick up on it. It also amazes me how some never do.

Although I cannot take credit for leaking femme, I will take credit for my "elephant in the room" theory (as relating to those in our community), something I truly believe in it. We can get lulled into a false sense of security in thinking others don't notice things. I'm convinced most notice something and most do not say a thing. The more we leak femme, the more likely it is they will in fact notice. Whether they make a connection to this whole TG thing is another story but the makeup in guy mode does increase those odds a bit, IMHO.

So if femme was a dam, I'm not sure if you simply cracked it or punched some holes!!!

[Chari]

Kathi,
Thanx for sharing your great adventure story! It is very obvious you are confident, comfortable, and enjoy your feminine side, but I would also always be cautious of all your surroundings and who appears to just a bit more interested in your actions and presentations. Some GGs can become very "catty"!

[AKAMichelle]

it is funny to watch which group you hang out with. The guys look on disgusted because you made to the other side. Even the most macho guy would love to be surrounded by a bunch of pretty women, but they settle watching on the sidelines. You would rather spend your time with the girls and they appreciate it. If you ever got a divorce, I would dare say that at least one of those women would be interested in going out with you. Once a women gets to know you like this from both sides, it doesn't seem so threatening. Your quirky little noticing of girly things seems so natural.

I am glad that you have the best of both worlds. An accepting wife and plenty of GG's who accept you just as freely in male mode.

[Persephone]

Kathi,

You are the ultimate, total encapsulation of cool!

As you know, I too ran with the Queen Bee pack at my son's school, androgynously dressed with almost identical touches of light makeup, working the lunch lines and the magazine drives as "just one of the girls."

It is the best!

But, as Chari said, do be careful, women can be catty. Sometimes the Queen Bee pack can come apart and once you choose sides, the other side can be brutal.



Noted. That might just be a good idea - test the waters, so to speak, and find out what they know/think.
Of course it's a good idea, I thought of it and as I have said before "The VeronicaMoonlit is always right in such matters." :-) That said, you'll want to pick the right member of the PWRMGGP and the right time.

I'm not usually one to even mildly disagree with Veronica's understanding of these things, but I'd be a little careful in exploring this with other than your best solid GG friend in the group, and even that would be a maybe in my mind. It was a casual line and I'll bet that no-one in the group thought about it as any big deal. It might seem odd to raise conciousness about it.

Meanwhile, I miss those days and I love living vicariously through your experiences! If I have a glass of wine tonight I'll raise it for a moment in your honor.

Hugs,
Persephone.

[indiandresser]

What an interesting experience, Kathi. :)

[Kathi Lake]

Kathi, Kathi, Kathi, no more self deprecation about being brain-dead, missy.Self dep-whatsis? I'm not sure what that means, but it sure sounds naughty! :)


And who do you want to be?Me!! A normal guy that likes to dress in a way that some see as abnormal.


I might have to dicker with ooze or exude also as they infer "slowly". :heehee:So are inferring that instead of oozing, I gush?


You didn't mention, but does your daughter pick up on that or is all quiet for now? I would think the ladies would and I wouldn't count out all the men even if most are oblivious.I honestly don't think my daughter does. Plus, you've seen my eyes. They are almost hooded. If I hold a normal expression, you don't really notice the liner or shadow, just longer than average, thicker, curlier, darker, prettier lashes (I am lovin' this lash growth serum, so far! :)). If I raise my brows a bit, you can see the whole enchilada - eyeshadow, liner and mascara. With them at their normal position, all you notice is that I have pretty eyes.


...even though I know you are simply being you.Bingo!! That's all I want to be. It seems to have worked out pretty well for me so far.


It might seem odd to raise conciousness about it.Good advice. I'll keep on "winging it" and see what happens. I do try to stay outside the fray. Basically, I have made myself invaluable to the most alpha of the alpha females. She keeps me under her surgically-enhanced wing, and the other girls know not to mess with me. For a person that has always hated politics - and other forms of playground-level dominance - I guess I've learned a few things over the years.

:)

Kathi

[Persephone]

Basically, I have made myself invaluable to the most alpha of the alpha females. She keeps me under her surgically-enhanced wing, and the other girls know not to mess with me. For a person that has always hated politics - and other forms of playground-level dominance - I guess I've learned a few things over the years.

LOL! That's exactly where I was, girl! My presence as one of her minyons enhanced her status among the other women and she loved that.

Politics and dominance among women makes the guy stuff look pathetic. When you run with that kind of leader and a powerful QB group, you really have to stay on your toes (and not just because you wear heels) because everything matters, what gets said, who wears what, etc., and the river of power is wider and deeper and stronger than anything back in boy world.

It is one of the ultimate experiences, so have fun girl, but always use your makeup mirror to watch your back!

[VeronicaMoonlit]

I'm not usually one to even mildly disagree with Veronica's understanding of these things, but I'd be a little careful in exploring this with other than your best solid GG friend in the group, and even that would be a maybe in my mind. It was a casual line and I'll bet that no-one in the group thought about it as any big deal. It might seem odd to raise conciousness about it.

I don't think the line was casual at all, people aren't totally clueless. Here is the original statement.


The mom turned to me with a huge smile and upraised eyebrows and said, "Oh reeeeeeealy?" "Yeah" my daughter said, "He's pretty good at girly stuff." The mom smiled and nodded, and another one said, "Yeah, we've noticed" as they all burst into giggles.

One says, "Oh really" another says "we've noticed" and then they all laugh? Oh they know "something" is up. Best to deal with Sara Jessica's "Elephant in the Room" directly, I think, before things go to much further. Ask one what they meant by that, and then "use the words" for what they have already surmised. Then one might also explain the need to be somewhat discreet, though IMHO, Kathi really can't control the words that are out there already.

Veronica

[Kathi Lake]

Of course they know something is up. Heck, I'm sure that they even know not only what variety the elephant is, but it's favorite color, and what it hopes to be when it grows up. Still, they (and I) are quite content to leave that elephant right where it is. I mean, it goes with the drapes and everything!

Think about it; Here you have me - a man with great skin (as they've told me), pretty eyebrows, often wears tight girl's jeans in a size half of them would kill to be in, can and does talk about makeup, fashion, and occasionally "feminine issues" right along with them (well, on the pregnancy weight gain issue, I had to cop to sympathy weight gain :)), without skipping a beat, is great with kids, empathetic, occasionally catty, yada, yada, yada. Do they know?! Heck, some of them are probably more sure of my final destination than I am! :)

Does it seem to bother them? No. Not at all. Maybe it's due to the novelty of having a "real, honest-to-goodness trans guy" in their midst - whether admittedly or not. All I know is that they seem to like me, they seem to accept me, and they seem to include me. For now, that's good enough.

So, will I bring it up? Yes. Eventually. I do kind of want to know who they think I am, and to see if it matches who I think I am.

Kathi

[Rhonda Jean]

Of course they know something is up. Heck, I'm sure that they even know not only what variety the elephant is, but it's favorite color, and what it hopes to be when it grows up. Still, they (and I) are quite content to leave that elephant right where it is. I mean, it goes with the drapes and everything!

Think about it; Here you have me - a man with great skin (as they've told me), pretty eyebrows, often wears tight girl's jeans in a size half of them would kill to be in, can and does talk about makeup, fashion, and occasionally "feminine issues" right along with them (well, on the pregnancy weight gain issue, I had to cop to sympathy weight gain :)), without skipping a beat, is great with kids, empathetic, occasionally catty, yada, yada, yada. Do they know?! Heck, some of them are probably more sure of my final destination than I am! :)

Does it seem to bother them? No. Not at all. Maybe it's due to the novelty of having a "real, honest-to-goodness trans guy" in their midst - whether admittedly or not. All I know is that they seem to like me, they seem to accept me, and they seem to include me. For now, that's good enough.

So, will I bring it up? Yes. Eventually. I do kind of want to know who they think I am, and to see if it matches who I think I am.

Kathi

Final Destination??? That's the first time I've seen you indicate there was a destination. Something you'd like to share with the class?

I wrote you a long reply to this post the other day and then lost it due to a power blip. I'll summarize.

It kind of caught me off guard when you pointed out a couple of ways that I was "out" or a least leaking profusely. I dont' tend to thing of it that way as it applies to me. But, you were right. I'm out in ways that you're not, and vice-versa. One big difference... Mine cost me a 30 year marriage, and in many ways my way of life. Just be careful, girl.
Luv Ya,

Rhonda

[Sara Jessica]

Of course they know something is up. Heck, I'm sure that they even know not only what variety the elephant is, but it's favorite color, and what it hopes to be when it grows up. Still, they (and I) are quite content to leave that elephant right where it is. I mean, it goes with the drapes and everything!

Yeah, but does your elephant sing show tunes like mine??? ;)

[Dana921]

Great story Kathi!

I enjoyed reading it.

Dana

[Tima]

"Yeah" my daughter said, "He's pretty good at girly stuff." The mom smiled and nodded, and another one said, "Yeah, we've noticed" as they all burst into giggles.
As Sara Jessica puts it, we all seem to leak/ooze/exude "femme" or whatever you call it. It always amazes me how some seem to pick up on it. It also amazes me how some never do.
So, that's my story for today. It seemed pretty humorous to me. In case you're wondering, my daughter doesn't know that I dress, but she just knows, if you know what I mean.

Yes, females are tuned into feminine wavelengths. Not all GG’s, of course, but as a whole, I mean. Your female friends can’t use the “gay card” in your instance, thanks to the presence of your daughter. This alone does a world of good for a better understanding about crossdressing, even though your presentation, in this instance, was unaccompanied by any femme “uniform.” This is something you rarely hear about, meaning the personal transformation one goes through, or accepts, simply because you crossdress. The female you choose to be comes out in everything you do. Thank goodness there are souls who appreciate these compassionate personality traits.

If you don’t mind me asking, when are you going to tell your daughter about Kathi? She seems to be pre-disposed to any disclosure you may make, innocent and welcoming (my guess) as she is. You’re very lucky.
:)

[VeronicaMoonlit]

Do they know?! Heck, some of them are probably more sure of my final destination than I am! :)

That's one of the reasons I think you should talk to them, if only to find out what they're thinking. Because some of them might be thinking: "Kathi is on mones and going to be a girl!" or "Kathi is a femmy gay boy with a beard (wife and kids)", rather than "Kathi is a fashionista crossdresser who is doing hair removal but has no plans to transition who has to put up the pro-transition cheerleading of her friend VeronicaMoonlit."


So, will I bring it up? Yes. Eventually. I do kind of want to know who they think I am, and to see if it matches who I think I am.

Kathi

:-)


Yeah, but does your elephant sing show tunes like mine??? ;)

They sing show tunes? Mine doesn't sing show tunes!


Your female friends can’t use the “gay card” in your instance, thanks to the presence of your daughter.

I'll have to disagree on that, since there are gay folks who got involved in heterosexual relationships and had kids.

Veronica

[Kathi Lake]

Final Destination??? That's the first time I've seen you indicate there was a destination. Something you'd like to share with the class?Lalalalalalal! Not listening! :)



Mine cost me a 30 year marriage, and in many ways my way of life. Just be careful, girl.Tryin, sis! I honestly am. Losing my marriage would pretty much kill me. I really don't think it will come to that, though. This is literally the only thing in our marriage that we have as a negative. Everything else is incredible. I'm the silly poop!


Yeah, but does your elephant sing show tunes like mine??? ;)Nah, He tried watching Glee and just couldn't get into it, so no show tunes. Strangely enough though, he does purr. Yeah, that's what I thought as well. :)


The female you choose to be comes out in everything you do. Thank goodness there are souls who appreciate these compassionate personality traits.It does manifest itself in everything I do. So many women have told me variations on the theme of "You just seem like a woman to me" or the weaker version, "You're like no guy I've ever met" that I have to believe that they know - at least on an instinctual level. I was talking with my best Ulta friend today, and she reiterated that women like being around me because I am happy, positive, and are interested in their feelings, not my own (usually sexual) agenda, like most guys. She told me of how this guy in church was staring at her creepily. Knowing how she usually dresses, I asked her, "Well, you do have church clothes, right?" She laughed, said yes, and mimed wearing a top at about the neck level. Well, I said, remember, you're you! (gorgeous - a past Miss Hawaiian Tropic). She laughed and said it was still creepy when it happened. :)


If you don’t mind me asking, when are you going to tell your daughter about Kathi? She seems to be pre-disposed to any disclosure you may make, innocent and welcoming (my guess) as she is. You’re very lucky.
:) Universal Answer - it depends. I will, as always, feel for the best opportunity, but will - if needed - use the circumstances handed to me, like when my oldest son found out.


That's one of the reasons I think you should talk to them, if only to find out what they're thinking. Because some of them might be thinking: "Kathi is on mones and going to be a girl!" or "Kathi is a femmy gay boy with a beard (wife and kids)", rather than "Kathi is a fashionista crossdresser who is doing hair removal but has no plans to transition who has to put up the pro-transition cheerleading of her friend VeronicaMoonlit."And for your friendship, I'll gladly put up with the incessant cheerleading (that goes for you as well, Sara!). :)

Yes, I do plan to ask them just what they meant in my own special way. "So wait, you guys actually think I'm girly? Really?! Wow, I had no idea!

:)

Kathi

[Tima]

I'll have to disagree on that, since there are gay folks who got involved in heterosexual relationships and had kids.

What you say is absolutely true, but I based my statement on the get-together that was described in the OP. Speaking (writing) as a homosexual, I am aware of the possibilities.
:Peace:

[Laura Evans]

Kathi, that is a great story and looks like a wonderful relationship with the girls. As you suspect the know and accept you and include you anyway. I am envious but very happy for you.

[Sara Jessica]

(looking for pom-poms, can't find 'em...have never really been into that literal cheerleading thing ;) )

Ya know Kathi, this middle path thing is a valid place to be. I don't doubt for a second that you have peace in your heart and that you have found your contented place when it comes to "This Thing of Ours of Varying Kinds" (quote: Veronica Moonlit ©2010, all rights reserved). I think I'm a little more fluid as to where my place is but I know where it should be...the middle path.

Yet with knowledge and experiences comes a degree of something that tells me that there is a very good chance that you & I could very well be discussing (or lamenting?) being called out on this whole thing. We tempt fate yet the result of doing so may have little or no ramification to anything that matters. Or as I'd like to hope, "the world will once again fail to explode" (quote: Erica ©20??, again, all rights reserved).

[kimdl93]

Its my guess that unless Kathi deliberately tried to hide herself, that women will pick up on the vibe. I know this from personal experience. For example, last year I was the only male attending a christmas gathering of my wife's co-workers and two of the ladies made references to me being just like one of the girls! My wife joked about the comment as we drove home - because she knew I was wearing a camisole, thong and tights under my drabs. And one of my own female business associates has designated me "an honorary woman", (which we both consider a high honor!) and has taken to calling me Marta, even though I didn't think I was that obvious.

I honestly don't think that at this point, even though your wife is not entirely OK with it, that she could possibly think you are anyone other than who you are. As you said, this one thing is the only issue in your marriage, and like these other women, she probably knew you weren't the average guy when she met ya! Keep enjoying who you are!

[Rhonda Jean]

Kim and Sara Jessica. I wish I knew how to do those quote things from parts of various posts, bit it'll probably be obvious which parts I'm referring to anyway...

"With all due respect"... I wouldn't bet on it. I did. I lost.

[kimdl93]

Rhonda Jean has a point - a lot of us have had bad experiences. My view is colored by the fact that my present wife ( 11 years and counting, and I hope she sticks around!!!) is very supportive. I'll defer to Kathi on the odds in her own marriage.

[Rhonda Jean]

Everybody's view is colored. That's what make this a valuable resource. Sort through and find what fits. I think we all say whatever we say with the best interest of our sisters in mind.

I've been on a negative bent lately. I LOVE Kathi's adventures. She's such a bright spot on this forum. Some of us, in a cyber kind of way, have been through a lot together on here, and we've become friends. Real friends can't always be cheerleaders. I've probably come across as one who just wants to spoil things for others. Not so. Just concerned.

Hey! Maybe my negativity is driven by jealousy! Have you ever picked up a size zero and held it to your body??? Most 12 year old girls couldn't fit into those! Eat a cheeseburger, will ya' Kathi! No fair having such a head start! Skinny B!^@h!

Now I feel better. That must have been it.

[Kathi Lake]

. . . there is a very good chance that you & I could very well be discussing (or lamenting?) being called out on this whole thing.As I have stated before, the largest part of me certainly wants to keep this hidden from those close to me. A small part of me, however, wants to jump up and down and say, "Call me out! I'm tired of living this lie! You know exactly who and what I am. I know exactly who and what I am. Let's stop pretending that I'm otherwise." Basically, I feel the "middle path" isn't really a path at all at times, and therefore I wonder if it even offers a destination.

That said, I love my life as it is right now, and do not wish to see it crumbling down.


I think we all say whatever we say with the best interest of our sisters in mind.And that is what we sorely need here. Although I love my cheerleading sisters, they can and do also provide me - and all of us - with something we all need from time to time, whether it is in the form of a reality check, or a swift kick to the rear. I don't see that as spoiling things. Quite the opposite. You don't go out on a limb for those you care nothing about.


Have you ever picked up a size zero and held it to your body???Why, yes. Yes I have. :heehee:


Eat a cheeseburger, will ya' Kathi!Oh, I do. Often! Yesterday was a large order of Del Taco Deluxe chili cheese fries and a macho taco. Today, I ate a bit lighter - a Carl's Junior spicy chicken combo. And that was just lunch. Breakfast yesterday was a Carl's Junior ham/egg/cheese biscuit and a strawberry biscuit and a big gulp. Today was a package of mini pound cakes and a big gulp, with a cheese danish around 10:30 (I get hungry often). Having this metabolism has its benefits, but my food budget is astronomical - especially with my middle son (15) still at home. :)

[ReineD]

Kathi, I loved reading your thread!

All through my reading though, I was itching to see if there was perhaps one of the wives that you could confide in. Is there anyone you sense is trustworthy? Someone who has both feet firmly planted on the ground, and who doesn't play into the cattiness or potential gossip that others in this thread fear you might run up against? (I don't think that cattiness pervades as much as people think, but that's just me. I've never been able to detect it, at least, people aren't catty around me, but it doesn't mean it isn't there).

In a perfect world, if your wife was OK with having your daughter know and you were accepted among the ladies at school, do you think you'd like to be Kathi among your daughter's friends' moms?

I'm guessing that your reluctance to dress publicly in your own circles stems (understandably) from the fear of being ostracized, or of having your daughter or wife have doors closed to them (i.e. no Janey, you can't have a sleepover there because her dad is different). Is this the main reason your wife is reluctant for you to bring Kathi out into the sun?

It would be wonderful if you could pull one of the wives aside and just ask her what the group-think would be, not only if you did let a select few know about Kathi, but what the group-think is now, due to the fact that you do behave and look differently than the men in your circles. Or, does it really matter what they think?

One thing to keep in mind though, is the likelihood they have no idea what being trans is all about. There is a dire need for education among the masses about the trans community. We all know here that the first questions GGs ask their husbands when they first find out is if they are gay and if they want to become a woman. I don't think it is any different among GGs who meet you as a friend, except they would be more accepting, despite believing these things, since they are not married to you. They would need to be educated about what being trans is all about, just as much as SOs.

Anyway, if it is your wife's fear that you, she, and your daughter would be "talked about" if people should find out about Kathi, maybe it would reassure her to know otherwise, if you did confide in a friend and got a better feel for it?

I'm smiling now as I remember the men in my life that I've confided in, become friends with, and behaved generally as I would have with girlfriends. Looking back, I wonder if they were trans too! :) I would have loved to be told, if they were. I certainly would have supported them.

[Kathi Lake]

Thanks, Reine!

There is one woman who just seems very down-to-earth, very nurturing, very accepting. I will bring it up to her. I really do want to know just what they think of me. Most people, I don't really care. They're just strangers, after all. These people are my friends.

As for being Kathi around them - that I'm less sure of. Would I be accepted? Most likely. There would be a few, of course, that would have a hard time with it. That is what I want to avoid. So, out of deference to those few, I will continue to be Kathi - just not as much of Kathi as I might like around them. Still, according to them, I'm pretty much there anyway. :)

I would indeed love to educate them, and I hope my life example to them so far has helped a bit.They look to me as a seemingly normal person. I'm friendly, liked, useful, and always willing to help. They know that I'm a bit girly, and some may suspect that I'm a lot girly - and yet I am not ostracized for it. Once they do know where I stand, they will have had a good lesson in who we really are. That's my goal, anyway.

Kathi

[TxKimberly]

I'm still trying to figure out why your post makes me feel so warm and fuzzy? LOL
Sigh . . .

[Rhonda Jean]

I'm still trying to figure out why your post makes me feel so warm and fuzzy? LOL
Sigh . . .

Fuzzy??? Something tells me, no. Not Kim!

[Kathi Lake]

I'm still trying to figure out why your post makes me feel so warm and fuzzy? LOL
Sigh . . .Is it the daddy/daughter girl bonding? Is it the inclusion? Oh, wait, I bet it's the fact that in my marriage, it is my wife that does all the traveling.

:)

Kathi

[Tima]

One thing to keep in mind though, is the likelihood they have no idea what being trans is all about. There is a dire need for education among the masses about the trans community.

It’s not just likelihood, it’s fact. People are less educated about the human condition, or human sexuality, than anything else. I would say that only people who wish to be educated should receive this privileged information, but who is best qualified to educate? You get more insight into the variations of TG here, on this site, from what the members write and discuss, than from any text or authoritative figure. It would take time to study all of it, and someone is bound to be left out, or be dissatisfied with the presentation, or get angry about some perceived slight. If one is sincerely interested in the community, they will eventually find the knowledge they seek, but they need to arrive with an open mind and keep it open at all times.

[Frédérique]

I would indeed love to educate them, and I hope my life example to them so far has helped a bit.They look to me as a seemingly normal person. I'm friendly, liked, useful, and always willing to help. They know that I'm a bit girly, and some may suspect that I'm a lot girly - and yet I am not ostracized for it. Once they do know where I stand, they will have had a good lesson in who we really are. That's my goal, anyway.

You’re the ideal person to educate the masses, Kathi, but do you have the time and patience? I mean, you’re the poster child for non-confrontational discussion, easy-going camaraderie, and all things related to successful gender integration. You have it all, but there’s only so much Kathi to go around. Can one’s transgendered nature be a positive burden? Don't answer that! You are downright preternatural, so you have the power to open eyes and inform the uninformed. You’ll need a thick skin, albeit one with liberal applications of moisturizer, but I think you’re just the ticket…

My name is Frédérique, and I approved this post...:doh:

[Kathi Lake]

Shucks!

Thanks, Freddy! I do have incredibly thick skin, for the most part. As to my time constraints, it's true - I only have so much. Still, it sure is fun to get out there and get the message out from time to time. If that's my burden, I bear it gladly!

:)

Kathi