"Homely" Crossdressers

[msginaadoll]

This past weekend I got a chance to hit a couple different bars/clubs. First on Friday, my usual Detroit hangout The Rainbow Room. Its a very relaxed gay/lebian club that has become a hangout for a fairly small group of cds/transgender folks. It tends to be a friendly place with a great group of girls. Saturday I went to Gigis, a larger more popular club in the CD community at least on Saturday nights. I was pushing myself to interact more, so I approached a very attractive transgender lady who I had seen before and reintroduced myself. We got to talking about what we had been doing and all. I told her I tend to spend more time at the Rainbow Room because it was closer to home and I get out Fridays. She then mentioned that she ahd been there before but didnt really care for it that much because the CD's there were more "Homely." I was kind of shocked though didnt show it. It did tend to bother me though. The ladies I know at that club are some of the sweetest, kindest and most welcoming that I have met. Also they are my friends and are beautiful to me. It tends to be a little less clicquish than Gigis, though Gigis has some wonderful women as well. It just tends to attract larger crowds and people tend to hang out with friends which is normal.
I guess my thoughts went to the fact that maybe we as CD's and transgender folk can be just as superficial and in some ways as negative as others can be to us. Just wondering if other people have run into this. Is there a class sytem in the transgender community at least at social clubs/events based on looks. Or was this just a fluke? Just a thing this "Homely " CD is pondering.

[Sarah Doepner]

I'm afraid there will be "pecking orders" in just about every group, crossdressers included. As one of the "homely" types I'm only slightly put off by the attitude you describe. I was always the last one chosen to be on a team as a kid, so this is something I was prepared for. I admire those in our group who have managed to move closer to the ideal of female beauty, and I really respect those who can't come close and still pursue the goal of doing the best they can.

[Samantha B L]

Hi msgina, I've run across ocaisional exclusivity like the kind you're talking about a couple of times. It's unpleasant. But I've also found that most of the CD community is happy to socialize and can use new freinds by the carload.

[juno]

I think some people have worked very hard to be more feminine, and being around less passable people reminds them of less happy times. But, highschool also demonstrates that some girls associate better looks with being a better person. Personally, I don't think passing should be an issue at all. The "man in a skirt" look is just as valid as being totally passable.

[dianarenee]

Don't give up on going out.It's a shame that she would conpartmentalize otheres as homely.Crossdressers and transgenders should be made to feel welcome in all social settings.

[linnea]

Homely? well, that's pretty rude, but I must say that people just come in all varieties. They part that I find most appealing has nothing to do with what I like in the way of looks; it has everything to do with a person's goodness, sweetness, honesty, integrity, passion, consideration for others, kindness--that list could go on and on.

[Jason+]

Even my favorite lipstick will never have the power to beat my "homely man in a skirt look." :D I can't comment on in the clubs and my only "our community" experience I have to draw on is this site and the web pages of the support groups.

In my experience yes there is absolutely a passing based class system although I think it may thankfully be limited to a smaller and more vocal group. For those that wouldn't want to go someplace with me based on my lack of even trying for the passing I can respect that as long as they are not selling it to me as a flaw on my part.

But then being "low" on the pecking order before I was a CD helped me to care less about it now that I am one. :D

[VeronicaMoonlit]

Is there a class sytem in the transgender community at least at social clubs/events based on looks. Or was this just a fluke? Just a thing this "Homely " CD is pondering.

Of course there is, it's here as well, to a certain extent. Haven't you seen and recognized it in action?

Veronica

[Rachel Morley]

Just wondering if other people have run into this. Is there a class system in the transgender community at least at social clubs/events based on looks. Or was this just a fluke? Just a thing this "Homely " CD is pondering.I don't know if there's a "class system based on looks" as such, but I think I do know what you're talking about. The party T-girl verses the homely CDer type. I think there is a difference. Both having fun doing their own thing. Does one think they're better than the other? .. I don't know, some maybe. I have been accused (maybe accused is too strong a word) ... let's just says it's been suggested to me by my some of my T-girl friends that I need to "sex it up" a little when it comes to what I wear and how I do my makeup when I go out to bars and whatnot. I'm fine with their suggestions but what makes me slightly uncomfortable about going down that road is my age (I'm 47). I don't want to feel like I'm "mutton dressed as lamb". I suppose being at bars dressed more sexily is ok but then again I might get unwanted attention and I don't dress to get attention or flirt (like some of my T-girl friends do) I dress for me and I like to dress in the same way a GG of my age might do, which not say I never "sex it up" but my perosnal preference is to try to go for a more sophisticated and classic elegance type look. :2c:

[AKAMichelle]

Who are you calling homely? I got told today by a friend of mine that I look matronly. I feel like I'm on the short of the stick here. :D I feel like I need a makeover. :daydreaming:

[msginaadoll]

I guess I really havent noticed or had anyone ever comment before on judging people by looks in the cd community. I guess its due to my naiveity and flower child attitude. And probably also related to the fact that people have only been nice to me, and made me feel that I fit in. Maybe I was hoping that everyone felt we were in the same boat and would just encourage each other. Well it will not stop me in my getting out and about, but is an encouragement for me to make sure I treat everyone wth respect and be supportive.
I understand where you are coming from Rachel, Ive been called the Church Lady and Martha Stewart at times whe I dress conservative. Of course I have been known to let my wild child and party girl out at times. Also Veronica, I hope that our liittle forum is one that reaches out to everyone. I know we are all imperfect, but there is room for everyone cause we all need support and a voice.

[VeronicaMoonlit]

Also Veronica, I hope that our liittle forum is one that reaches out to everyone.

It does, but that doesn't mean there isn't also a subtle appearance hierarchy here.


I know we are all imperfect, but there is room for everyone cause we all need support and a voice.

Very true.

Veronica

[t-girlxsophie]

Im afraid its not uncommon in my experience.When I started attending support group I noticed straight away that there was a few girls who would be in a clique the tall,tanned and well dressed girl,who would be so hard to get to converse with you,as If you were somehow beneath them because you didnt pass or werent as glam as they were.am afraid imo that will always be the way

:hugs:Sophie

[Nikki A.]

There is a bit of snobbishness based on looks, but even the "holier than thous" are still pretty friendly when you talk to them

[Christy_M]

I think people are people and the things people do in typical society they will also do within the CD/TG community. It is the shallowness of the person moreso than the community they are participating in.

[jessica renee]

I guess you can count me in the "homely" group as well since I don't go to bars/clubs whether I am dressed or not. I just don't care for the atmosphere.

And when I go out dressed, I dress as other females my age would dress, so that I will blend in easier.

[Daenna Paz]

I'm fine with their suggestions but what makes me slightly uncomfortable about going down that road is my age (I'm 47). I don't want to feel like I'm "mutton dressed as lamb".

Oh to be 47 again!! :daydreaming::daydreaming:

[Lucy_Bella]

You are always gonna have people like that..problem is they don't know they are like that..Bright side is...She wouldn't have told you that if she thought you was homley..

[GaleWarning]

It does, but that doesn't mean there isn't also a subtle appearance hierarchy here.





Quite correct, Veronica, and I am at the bottom of the heap ... hence my avatar!
:)

[Lucy_Bella]

Of course there is, it's here as well, to a certain extent. Haven't you seen and recognized it in action?

Veronica
Welcome to the world of women... Even today with such events as beauty contest we sit here and moan that appearance is a factor ... Try ( we do now so you know ) walking in the shoes of a real GG and have to compete daily with what God gave you! I feel the pain that some GG's feel I have never been a big fan of Miss Americas because it is bias based on natural beauty.. Beauty is also below the skin and is evry more important to me even more than than appearance.

To hear someone make a quote such as the OP is talking about is ugly and un attractive in my books..

[GaleWarning]

Welcome to the world of women... Even today with such events as beauty contest we sit here and moan that appearance is a factor ... Try ( we do now so you know ) walking in the shoes of a real GG and have to compete daily with what God gave you! I feel the pain that some GG's feel I have never been a big fan of Miss Americas because it is bias based on natural beauty.. Beauty is also below the skin and is evry more important to me even more than than appearance.

To hear someone make a quote such as the OP is talking about is ugly and un attractive in my books..

A little story, to make you feel better ....
When I was at primary school, there was this one classmate who was my secret love ... the prettiest and brightest girl in the school ...

Years later, I caught up with her and discovered that her life had been anything but the best and happiest ...

One thing I was fortunate to learn very early on, was this ... there is no need to be envious of anyone. Each of us has our own burden to bear.

Another is this ... beauty is a particularly heavy burden to bear (if you are female) and handsomeness is, too (if you are male).

Right, I'll get off the soap box!

[Inna]

This seems to be as tragic as it is funny, I remember growing up in all the levels of school and life outside of school was divided into jocks and geeks and those who didn't fit stereo type (yours truly) usually on the sidelines. It seemed then to transfer into after grad life as haves and have nots. I thought though we have grown out of such insecurities once bit of life gave us a good spanking. But here we are I suppose still some haven't learned a lesson. I bet this was a young TG/TS full of her self and still not beat up by life's good punch. By the way "homely" it sounds to me almost a complement, oh well that just shows you how much I know, Oh well, I know I am old but this homely wench can still kick some a.. on the dance floor:-)

[Suzette Muguet de Mai]

Hmm maybe this person was referring to homely as stay at home CD or the CD who promotes themselves as a home provider? She is a young transgendered person who needs to experience life a little more. Maybe she is one who prefers the loud music, way out clothes and over the top makeup and fears her space is being invaded? Good for her, enjoy it while you are young hun, cos tastes change over time. I prefer a soft lit private bar and soft music so when I talk I can be listened to. Gigis attracts a lot more so there will be more variations in CD/TG/TV with variation in tastes. The TG may learn as she ages to be a little tactful in answering questions, maybe she knows no different. So it shows us that even within CD groups there is a social difference. I wonder in twenty years time if the younger ones like her will have the same attitude. The cycle of life revolves around and around, what goes around usually comes around. Sigh, to be 18 again.

[eluuzion]

"Everyone is attractive at 2am when the bar is closing". lol

Going back to your opening post...
I just view those types of comments as having been given the opportunity to see a little deeper into the character of the person talking. My response in many instances may be...

"What do you mean by "homely?"

"Hum, "Tell me why you feel that way..."

"I don't consider that as a criteria ..."

or...my typical reply...."Well, I suppose that's one option..." (neutral form of disagreement)

[donnalee]

Who are you calling homely? I got told today by a friend of mine that I look matronly. I feel like I'm on the short of the stick here. :D I feel like I need a makeover. :daydreaming:I'd settle for matronly.
Anyway, "I refuse to join a club that would have me as a member."(Groucho Marx)

[WifeofWrenchette]

GG's do the same thing too. The ones that aren't a size 0, tan, and blond are excluded from the group.

[charlotte_sp]

I guess my thoughts went to the fact that maybe we as CD's and transgender folk can be just as superficial and in some ways as negative as others can be to us. Just wondering if other people have run into this. Is there a class sytem in the transgender community at least at social clubs/events based on looks. Or was this just a fluke?

I agree with others who have said that the obsession with "passing" plays a large, negative role within the trans community in this regard.

Ideally, we should call out such BS as unacceptable, but I completely understand that in practice it's not easy to do face-to-face, especially if no one backs you up.

That being said, in my personal experience, I have not seen it explicitly from other trans people I've met. However, I have seen quite a bit of the bias implicit in the way some trans people (myself included) seek out and interact with attractive versus less attractive trans people. I personally try to be aware of it and adjust accordingly.


Another is this ... beauty is a particularly heavy burden to bear (if you are female) and handsomeness is, too (if you are male).

I understand that your point was that everyone has problems, but I really have to disagree with this specific statement. Physical attractiveness is a privilege that makes being trans much, much easier. I think this is worth emphasizing. People often forget what advantages they have, and that makes them less likely to feel empathy towards people without those privileges.

[Jenny Doolittle]

We all had better look for the inner beauty in others cause we all will get old!

I feel the person you we talking to very rude, and I hope you told her so, especially if she was insulting your friends.

[docrobbysherry]

Maybe she is bi and is simply attracted to "pretty" CDs!?:battingeyelashes:
U usually CAN'T HELP who u r attracted to! Superficial, or NOT! :eek:

I'm that way. I've met some wonderful, sweet women in my life that wanted me. But, I wasn't attracted to them! So, I passed. :sad:
My LOSS, I'm SURE!:straightface:

I'm a homely woman! And, I find I'm NOT attracted to her! So, I put on a special face and oua la! Now, I find myself ATTRACTIVE!:D

[Tina B.]

Let's get real here, every group since high school have a inter group of "Beautiful People" Those that are thin, tall, rich, and pretty. The get the prettiest dates, the best pay and they feel it's their right to look down their pretty little noses at the rest of the world. There is no reason to think are group would be any different.
But remember they have to work real hard not to slip down to the level of mere mortals. The rest of us get to go about our lives with out such pressure, and have fun nor worrying about such things, We really should feel sorry for that type, they think they have it all and have to protect it so much, it must be hard to really have much fun. And on top of that, they will get old and lose that edge, and it will really hurt them more than my getting old did me.
Tina B.

[Alana Lucerne]

Every pool has a shallow end. You'd find people with the same attitude in any group. My feeling for them is: It's their loss.

[Loveday]

Hey Gina
You have raised a good point. I never even thought of a pecking order in our community. It sounds like Gigis may be more of a hotter spot, but the personna of the place is alot more like Junior High or High School ( both of which I have no fond memories of ). Since I still have not found the courage to go out much, I am wondering if in general is there perhaps an age difference in the crowds at these two places? Would the Rainbow Room be more of a grown up place?

Always enjoy your posts,
Loveday

[GaleWarning]

Let's get real here, every group since high school have a inter group of "Beautiful People" Those that are thin, tall, rich, and pretty. The get the prettiest dates, the best pay and they feel it's their right to look down their pretty little noses at the rest of the world. There is no reason to think are group would be any different.
But remember they have to work real hard not to slip down to the level of mere mortals. The rest of us get to go about our lives with out such pressure, and have fun nor worrying about such things, We really should feel sorry for that type, they think they have it all and have to protect it so much, it must be hard to really have much fun. And on top of that, they will get old and lose that edge, and it will really hurt them more than my getting old did me.
Tina B.

Kharma is a wonderful thing.

And if you really want to see lots of beautiful women with heaps of problems, you need look no further than the film industry, the music industry or Paris Hilton.

[JenniferB]

Of course there is, it's here as well, to a certain extent. Haven't you seen and recognized it in action?
Veronica
Good point. It's totally here. I could name some names?

[EllieOPKS]

Well, you got me to thinking - How many of my friends have I picked because of their looks? - How many of my friends picked me because of MY looks? So I had to do a little olympic scoring to figure this out (throw out the 2 real hotties and the the 2 real mud fences) and I suddenly realized I probably couldn't give a police sketch of most of them.

I know 3 CD'ers that I would truly call my friend...never met them face to face... and not one of them has asked what I look like. I guess it says something about the caliber and quality of people.

[Babeba]

GG's do the same thing too. The ones that aren't a size 0, tan, and blond are excluded from the group.

I've gotta say, I fit none of those categories and I've never felt excluded from the people who were WORTH hanging out with.

[Violetgray]

hehe there seems to be a bit of confusion on the definition of homely!

–adjective, -li·er, -li·est.
1.
lacking in physical attractiveness; not beautiful; unattractive: a homely child.


Truthfully, I get caught in the "looks" trap, but I've noticed that for me personally that it's less about nature and more about skill. That is, I'm more likely to admire a more masculine-bodied girl who knows how dress and put on makeup than a more naturally fortunate girl who isn't quite there yet.

I've NEVER snubbed someone for being unattractive though. When someone is prettier than me, I hope to learn from them. If someone is still trying to realize their potential (doing stuff that I did when I first started, like using a single color of gaudy eyeshow over my WHOLE lid, as if to say "There. It's on. Ya happy?" I love to try and help them.

[TiffanyTgirl]

Well, I make an ugly woman. But I don't care. I am fulfilling a part of me that is sorely underexpressed. It is sad that other tg's or cd's pass judgement on each other. It should be the one demographic that expresses total acceptanc eand love. Oh well, just more haters!

[msginaadoll]

Just wanted to say that I would hate to label one place I go to as more superficial or stuck up than the other. Both clubs have wonderful folks. One tends to attract a larger crowd and may be more of the hot spot. The other tends to be the neighborhood bar. Both have wonderful people. And we all do go out for different reasons. Some may to see and be seen and look for an attractive partner. Others like me just go to hang out with friends and maybe meet new folks. Obviously if looking to hook up ya go for the place with more folks. As was mentioned too, all of us probably like to look are best, as well as like to hang out in the company of those we find attractive. But it all comes down to respect to me and treating others as important. and paraphrasing Christina- "We all are beautiful... words won't bring me down!"