Dealing with the gay question

[nancy58]

The first time my wife caught me with lipstick and found out I had been playing with hers, she asked me, "Are you gay?" When I finally told her about my dressing up, she asked the question again, and since then, from time to time, she asks me.

It's sort of annoying, and it's a touchy subject for me, because I endured the "queer" label all through high school even though I had never been seen as anything but a guy. My wife knows this, but still the question, and when I say "no", sometimes she says maybe I am and haven't admitted it to myself. She's at it enough to make me wonder, do I have issues with homosexuality. (Mind you, I've been over the homophobia of my youth for 10-12 years now.)

I can't say "yes", because it's not true, and I know what I feel when I see an attractive woman, even when I'm not wishing I could look like her for a few hours. But saying "no" does no good, either. I don't know what makes her ask the question, because I perform sexually with her whenever I get the opportunity. I put out the garbage, split the firewood, work on the car, do the plumbing repairs around the house. Could it be because I am good at keeping eyes front when I notice an attractive woman while out with my wife?

Do any of the rest of you have this problem, and how do you deal with it?

Nancy

[Lauren_T]

...I don't know what makes her ask the question...That's simple, Nancy: bogus stereotypes. That she clings to them so tightly means she has some sort of issue there. Have you shown her any of the readily available facts which prove her wrong? And there's always that old fallback, the direct approach: have you ever asked her to explain exactly what makes her so certain?

[easyCD]

Hey, Nancy, I sorta know how you feel, but at least mine didn't keep repeating the "gay" question ... Maybe you need to come down a little harder nxt time, i.e., the old "What part of 'I don't like men that way' don't you understand?" approach.
You might also try loosening up on that "eyes-front" routine. Ogle other women to your hearts content. Window shopping won't break the bank as long as you stay on the sidewalk, right?

[Sweet Susan]

Nancy,
I do not have your particular problem. My wife has never asked me if I was gay, or even mentioned it. And like you, I know how I feel when I see an attractive woman; I'm ready to pounce. I love to look at attractive women, and I find all kinds of women attractive for different reasons. It's actually quite a problem when I think about it. My wife used to catch me looking, but she put up such a fuss about it a few times that I try not to oggle. But damn! There are some fine looking women out there. My real problem is that I can't have them all, so I have to be content with having none of them. Because I know this: Let's say I was in the supermarket, and a most incredible looking woman came my way, and to make a long story short, I win her, and she's mine. I would be right back where I started the next time I went to the supermarket. I'd see another fantastic looking woman, and I'd tell myself, "I'd do anything to make her mine." I think men who wander with their eyes can never be satisfied, so it's best for them to be satisfied with what they have. But this isn't what you asked, is it? You asked about being thought of as gay. Hmm. I don't have that particular problem.

[Marlena Dahlstrom]

As Lauren said, it's probably in part because the only images of men in dresses (aside from comedy) that the public sees are drag queens.

Also society's idea of manhood is often less about who you are than who you aren't: gay and/or feminine. As kids we taunted the wussy kids as being gay long before we knew what homosexuality was. So she may share the thought that being a feminine man (or a man with a feminine side) = being gay.

But it sounds like the gay question may be the lightening rod through which other fears that she has may be channelled. She may be afraid of "losing you" and the thought of you being gay may be less threatening than the thought that you might transition -- which is another common fear.

You know what's best for your relationship, but it may be worth having a serious talk about your dressing and how she feels about it.

[Tristen Cox]

I would say: A) that 'That' is the last thing I am, and: B)There's worse things in life. Just my point of view, but then again I would have dealt with this before I got in too far.

[Deborah]

My ex-wife likes to call me gay all the time. She's a sadistic bitch though so i ignore her. I'm not what my definition of gay is so i'm not worried about it.


I know someone will ask so here goes
Amy's definition

GAY--A male who has sex with or is in love with another male.

1) I've never been with a man.....YET
2) I don't consider myself male.

[Mx Justina]

from psychology articles I've come across regarding male-female hetero interaction...a family arrangement to a typical hetero female is the equivelant of a "nest"...with nature establishing pre-defined roles. If the chosen masculine male within the relationship suddenly begins displaying characteristics or behaviour contrary to the predefined role (...say, not just bedroom fetish "libido enhancements", but actually appearing "serious" about his gender-bending)...that would likely be interpreted as a threat to the nest arrangement...

At the surface, a hostile emotion-laden query such as "are you gay!?"(reactive, catchall phrase for all non-hetero/masculine male behaviour), is how such deep biological programming would be expressed. "Deep" meaning hard to consciously recognise, or interpret.

My humble view as an individual (and non-hetero and androgyny-minded).

J.

[Rachael Warren]

Just my 0.02 worth, as someone who has had to work my way through all of this without help!

I will answer that with a question, If you are gay, why are you emulating a woman? After all this is something most do in private.

Think about that for a few moments, and I reckon you will see where I am coming from.

Hugs, Rachael. :)

[Lisa Golightly]

Never been accused of being gay, but have had the conversation drift to asking me if I am by a few hopefuls... ;)

[Trinity_cat]

Hi Nancy, if you don't put your foot done this will go on for EVER.

I expected (and got) the gay question when I told my wife that I CD.
I went to a TV site on the web and found a FAQ page. I printed the page and gave it to her. This helped explain most of the questions that must have been going through her mind. The GAY part explained that not all CDs are gay but some are, just like males in society today. Also, the majority of CDs are happily married hetro men.

[MarinaTwelve200]

Just my 0.02 worth, as someone who has had to work my way through all of this without help!

I will answer that with a question, If you are gay, why are you emulating a woman? After all this is something most do in private.

Think about that for a few moments, and I reckon you will see where I am coming from.

Hugs, Rachael. :)


Thats MY point too.----I have really NEVER understood WHY CDing is or ever has been associated with homosexuality. A gay man is interested in other MEN. And those men are also presumed to be Gay themselves---(he wouldnt be seeking a relatinship with a straight guy ) THAT being the case, looking like a woman would be the wrong bait.

As to the myth that gays CD to attract straight guys---Give me (and them) a break. All parties involved couln't be THAT stupid---No really straight guy wants to date a gay guy, no matter HOW he is dressed. Even for the best dressed CD gay, at some stage of the relationship, the secret will be eventully revealed.

Now In the case of transsexuals--they are guys with FEMALE brains---females in male bodies, I CAN understand CDing in them, and technically, they ARE homosexual, but not for the same reasons as most other gay guys.

I can only guess that the many of the unnformed public really dosent know what a "homosexual"(gay) IS, and use the Transsexual model/definition when refering to them.

I admit, sometimes it DOES look like a LOT of Gay guys CD---but it might just be a factor of being more "public" about it than most hetros--or they might be Transsexuals anyway.

The BEST theory I read (but still dosent sufficiently account for the misconception that most gays are CD)--from the book "The man who would be queen" suggests that many gays may CD because they are slight in build and cannot compete in terms of the Manly ideals of their peers---so they CD and target BI males--or those types attracted to CDers----slim pickings to be sure, but may be perhaps the only option available to a desparate gay guy who cant attract other gay guys.

all in all its something interesting to think about.

[Khriss]

the-"fact" that You must be gay to dress in "womens" clothing" ...OMG! ,, surely "our" greatest hurdle...soo progress is?? even amougst ourelves we seem confused...ooops and hold me accounntable for spelling too! ouch.....life seems tough enough-? "K"

[TammyB]

Nancy,

I've been asked this more than once by a couple of my mates, but for others it doesnt seem to be of any interest. I dont give them a proper answer though as I am not really sure myself. The only advice i can give is what has allready been said. Try to be patient with her, perhaps ask why she is so insistant? Does she think all CDs are gay?



The BEST theory I read (but still dosent sufficiently account for the misconception that most gays are CD)--from the book "The man who would be queen" suggests that many gays may CD because they are slight in build and cannot compete in terms of the Manly ideals of their peers---so they CD and target BI males--or those types attracted to CDers----slim pickings to be sure, but may be perhaps the only option available to a desparate gay guy who cant attract other gay guys.

Hi Marina,

I dont want to take this thread off topic (and please dont consider this a flame) so I'll keep this breif. The book you mention is not looked upon highly by some in the TS community, in fact the author is infamous, have a look at this link http://www.tsroadmap.com/info/man-who-would-be-queen.html

[mand]

The misconseption that dressing in female clothes must equal being gay probably isn't as widespread now as it used to be.............is it?.......I don't know? I just imagaine it isn't????
I can only say how I feel.

Would a person be gay if they had a female mind within a male body, and this person wished to be loved as a woman by a man?........I speaking on a personal level here.
To me being gay is between two persons af the same gender, I'm not sure which "label" I would fit into (don't really care to tell the truth ;) ).
The truth is a woman does not do anything for me in a sexual way, I think the feamle body is beautiful, but the one emotion I feel is total envy, It is the body to match my mind, the one I should have been born in.

However having said that I would place no restrictions on my feelings for someone, If I liked/fell for someone their gender would not be important to me, it's the person I fall for.


love mand xxx :)

[Stephanie]

When I first told my wife about my crossdressing, I had to also address the "gay issue," however it was probably a little more difficult for me because my wife already knew that I was somewhat "bi-curious" even before we were married and long before I told her about my crossdressing although I've never acted (and will never act) on my same-sex feelings and my same-sex feelings don't have anything to do with my crossdressing per se. After a few discussions, I was able to reassure her that I am primarily interested in women and have no desire to ever leave her for another man.

[Priscilla1018]

Hi Nancy,

This is why stereotyping is so wrong,yet the uninformed fall back on it.I know many Gay people,the last thing the majority of them want is to look like a women.You may wish to print out our responses for the next time the question surfaces.I have been crossdressing for 48 years,I have never been attracted to,nor have I ever had sex with a man.I love women and have had sex only with women.As for the looking,loosen up and look.My wife always says look,don't touch.It works for me.the day I quit looking is the day I die.

[halox1 GG]

to be honest the first time my SO told me about her hobby I too was asking the question "are you gay" but after talking with her about it through many tears I finally understood, maybe you should try explaining it to her maybe she has insecurities of her own that make her feel like since you dress that you want to be a woman. and what do women want? MEN

[Jamie M]

There have been many many attempts to ascertain the link between joe publics notion of crossdressing and homosexualtiy with some very good points already raised

however i think we may be straying from the question at hand . As for your SO asking this question of you , I don't think you can avoid it for the time being. I think that many of us do underestimate the difficulty that some of our partners have with what we do.

As for my own experiences I can say that Kelly has only just stopped asking this question in the last six months or so. There is no way that you can force her to stop asking this of you as it's something that she needs reassurance of. I doubt that she actually thinks you may be but every now and then she'll need to ask it for her own peace of mind

Simply getting angry with her will only make it worse. So every time you are asked this don't take it as an accusation just see it that she needs to know you love her and only her.

Anyway , probably made no sense , i do have a habit of waffling on , just my 0.02

[JocelynG]

I have never been asked that by my wife, but it is one of the biggest misconceptions people have about us. There are many resources and websites that can help her understand that the majority of us are NOT gay.

[Ariel_TV]

The BEST theory I read (but still dosent sufficiently account for the misconception that most gays are CD)--from the book "The man who would be queen" suggests that many gays may CD because they are slight in build and cannot compete in terms of the Manly ideals of their peers---so they CD and target BI males--or those types attracted to CDers----slim pickings to be sure, but may be perhaps the only option available to a desparate gay guy who cant attract other gay guys.


No offense but this must be the worst theory i have seen . Whoever wrote that book lacked the basic psychological knowledge to even differenciate Gender Identity and gender Attraction.

It makes no sense since within the community many gay guys will be looking for slim built guys. My friend is a small built asian who never CD but once went to a gay bar and got hit on ALOT. Some guy will like bigger build guys and other will like small built . It all about what rocks your both and trust me a slim built gay doesnt need any help or to force himself to CD to find other gay guys.

Nancy,

It quite simple , ask your girlfriend what makes her think that you would be attracted to guys. When she tells you it because you dress like a girls then ask her if all people who dress like woman are attracted to males? If she says yes then explain to her that many Lesbian are very feminine and many gay are very masculine . Try to make her understand that clothing does not make you any sexual orientation. Explain that every sexual orientation has people dressing one way or the other. You can also talk to her about the metrosexual , wich are very straight guys that adopt many feminine pratices.

[Marla GG]

As for your SO asking this question of you , I don't think you can avoid it for the time being. I think that many of us do underestimate the difficulty that some of our partners have with what we do.

As for my own experiences I can say that Kelly has only just stopped asking this question in the last six months or so. There is no way that you can force her to stop asking this of you as it's something that she needs reassurance of. I doubt that she actually thinks you may be but every now and then she'll need to ask it for her own peace of mind

Simply getting angry with her will only make it worse. So every time you are asked this don't take it as an accusation just see it that she needs to know you love her and only her.

Julia,

I wholeheartedly agree. Yours is the best advice I've seen so far in this thread.

Yes, Nancy, it was probably all those societal myths, misconceptions, and stereotypes that led your wife to ask the question initially. But presumably she has learned since then that many CDs, like yourself, are straight. Her reason for still asking "from time to time" is that she needs reassurance from you. You can't expect to tell her once (or twice, or a dozen times) and be done with it. I agree with Darla that the questioning reflects her fear of losing you and her need to know that you find her desireable.

Having a husband who crossdresses can be hard of a GG's self-esteem on many different levels. Please make an effort to be patient and not get irritated and defensive when she asks you repeatedly for reassurance on issues you thought were already settled. After all, it isn't really about you; it's about her, and her lack of confidence in her ability to keep you satisfied. Try not to see it as an accusation, but as a request for affirmation from you that she is everything you want and need.

[Tristen Cox]

---I have really NEVER understood WHY CDing is or ever has been associated with homosexuality.

Because they have no education to understand it any other way. It is not taught in schools. It's not forced that society defines gay and wearing womens clothing as two separate things. GGs are under that same opinion, that's why the question keeps coming up. What we know is one matter, but then we're the one's educated and not understanding why others can't divide the two. They are the opposite in that they have no education to know there is a division in the first place. Clothes of the opposite gender to them means sexually deviant, hence the person must automatically be gay. Or at least it's the first question they ask not knowing any other way things could be.

[easyCD]

[QUOTE=Tristen Cox]...Clothes of the opposite gender to them means sexually deviant.... QUOTE]
Unless of course it's a GG wearing MALE CLOTHES, then it's okay. ;)
The old double standard has always seemed so unfair...

[kellypm]

i think that from a GG perspective its quite a simple answer, when en femme you want usually to be found attractive and if a man finds you attractive all the better i don't think that from that kind of thinking to your SO thinking you might be gay s such a big leap really

i always used to ask julia still do now and again honestly i don't know why it probably is just for reassurance

Kelly

[Marlena Dahlstrom]

Because they have no education to understand it any other way. It is not taught in schools. It's not forced that society defines gay and wearing womens clothing as two separate things.

It's worth noting that even gays often hold the same stereotypes, although at least locally they tend to now realize the difference between CDs and drag queens.

FYI, "The Man Who Would be Queen" has been widely discredited for numerous methodological flaws, ignoring research that didn't fit Bailey's thesis and Bailey's biases presented as fact. Bailey's been at it again with research claiming bisexuals don't exist (they're really just repressed gays), which fit his rather "binary" view of gender roles and sexuality.

I live near one of the gay meccas in the world, and trust me, slightly built gays aren't lacking for attention. There's lots of gay subcultures beside the "Castro clones" that Bailey seems to assume respresent all gays.

It's also worth noting that I've run across few gay CDs -- although they definitely do exist. If we assume CDs and gays are both about 5% of the population, the percentage of gay CDs works out to about 0.25% of the population (1 in 400 men) which doesn't seem out of line with my informal observations.

Besides society's stereotypes, I've other GGs express the "attracting men" explanation that Kelly mentioned.

Nancy, I think you've gotten good advice from Julie and Marla.

[Stephanie]

Reading through some of these points I have begun wondering exactly why a man, if they were indeed attracted to other men, would choose to dress up as a woman as a way to attract another man? If gay men are, by their very nature, attracted to men, why would they find a man dressed up as a woman attractive (if they could even recognize a man dressed up as a woman)?

[Lauren_T]

Reading through some of these points I have begun wondering exactly why a man, if they were indeed attracted to other men, would choose to dress up as a woman as a way to attract another man? If gay men are, by their very nature, attracted to men, why would they find a man dressed up as a woman attractive (if they could even recognize a man dressed up as a woman)?Well, if you're going to be logical about it... ;)
That's it, of course. People who hold such views are largely incapable of logical thought - after all, if they were, they would immediately discard those views...

But it shouldn't come as a surprise, since it is psychological fact (oversimplified here for brevity's sake :clap: ) that the more irrational a belief, the greater the certainty of that belief. The credulous fools who think that the Earth is less than 10,000 years old and that dinosaurs coexisted with humans (as just one example) are absolutely certain that they're right. That's also why both Muslim fundamentalists and our Religious Right feel it's OK to cram their religion down the throats of others, who by fundamentalist "logic" are obviously wrong, since "they don't agree with us!" It actually is that simple.

With education and intelligence come the realization (among many others) that - <gasp!> Wow! I could be wrong! Fools regard that intelligent self-doubt as "uncertainty."

_____________________
'But wait! There's more!'
~ Ron Popeil

Duty calls, however. (I'm on-call 24/7 :mad: ) Provided I'm not tarred, feathered and ridden out of town on the proverbial rail in the next few hours :), I want to come back and relate this to Nancy's difficulty...

[Wendy me]

my wife asked me that abought my dressing and simply put i said no ...

[Rachael Warren]

my wife asked me that abought my dressing and simply put i said no ...

And how many times have you had to answer that question since?

"Like a rubber ball it comes bouncing back to you!" (Buddy Holly).

Hugs, Rachael. :)

[Wendy me]

And how many times have you had to answer that question since?

"Like a rubber ball it comes bouncing back to you!" (Buddy Holly).

Hugs, Rachael. :)


you know things like that use to real get me worked up but now no big deal
i say let them ask .... most often i would say i am happy and thats ok.......

[Rachael Warren]

you know things like that use to real get me worked up but now no big deal
i say let them ask .... most often i would say i am happy and thats ok.......

Glad to hear that, it's all that really matters.;)

If we are secure in ourselves what else does really matter?

Hugs, a sleepy Rachael. :)

[MarinaTwelve200]

Nancy,

Hi Marina,

I dont want to take this thread off topic (and please dont consider this a flame) so I'll keep this breif. The book you mention is not looked upon highly by some in the TS community, in fact the author is infamous, have a look at this link http://www.tsroadmap.com/info/man-who-would-be-queen.html

I didnt say I bought the theory, only its the best theory I have heard that could explain why gay guys MIGHT CD.-----Still it has lots of holes---I cant beleive that, given the small numbers of the proposed targets, that a major portion (apparently) of the gay population would target them.---- All and all why gays would want to CD (other than for the same "identity escapisim " reason as many hetros) is still a mystery to me.----PS. ill check out that link

[Lyn Ryan]

Most of the Gays shown on tv are very effeminate, In school any boy who didn't live up to the macho image was called gay. Therefore if you want to be femenine you must be gay. Misconceptions that are put into your head from a young age.
It's only through forums like this that the lines become clear,get your wife on line and let her meet some of the wonderful people on here and her doubts should fly out of the window.

[nancy58]

Thank you all for your replies! You've given me grist for the mill, and I think I will either find one of those articles or print this thread for the next time. I think that in my case, reassurance must be the main theme. After all, I frequently put the "Do you love me?" question to her myself.

Cheers!
Nancy

[Lauren_T]

Nancy, for you and for those sisters who will, at some point, confront people with a similar attitude... consider:

She asks you from time to time, you say, since the time you told her that you CD, "Are you gay?" We don't know what put this association in her mind - which is one of 2: A. CD = gay; or B. CD = Drag queen = gay, both of which we all know to be completely false.

What many seem to have missed is a subtle but essential clue: where you go on to say "when I say "no", sometimes she says maybe I am and haven't admitted it to myself."

That shows that her mind has changed, but in exactly the wrong way: instead of thinking that you have been answering untruthfully, it has occurred to her that she might be wrong - in this way: First, that you are sincere when you tell her 'no.' Reasonable and correct, as it happens. But here is the point where her reasoning goes awry and the problem is created: The rational person in her situation would then reasonably doubt their previous conclusion - i.e., they would say "He's being truthful with me, therefore if he says he's not gay, he isn't. Therefore I must be wrong."

But, Nancy, your SO is saying, "He's being truthful with me. If he says he's not gay, he believes it. But since I know crossdressers are gay, he's wrong. Therefore he refuses to believe what I know to be true. Therefore, he's in denial."

She simply does not know what a CD is - or more accurately, she thinks incorrectly, that she knows what a CD is. Rather than being ignorant on the subject, she has accepted false information as fact and is basing her actions on those falsehoods. Her entire issue boils down to this: Why does she insist, to such an abnormal degree, on clinging to those falsehoods as truth? What is at stake for her? Why is it so important to her to be right about this?

Therefore the only way that matter can be resolved satisfactorily is to somehow persuade her - without angering or otherwise alienating her - to reveal the source of her misinformation, and to neutralize it, demonstrate to her satisfaction that her source is wrong and, therefore, you are not gay.

Is that something you feel you could do? If you simply default to the status quo, and do nothing, other thoughts, other equally incorrect thoughts, will occur to her. This is virtually a guarantee that the situation will deteriorate.

Please, thoughts? Nancy? Anyone?

[kathy gg]

Hi Stephanie,

I had to respond to your post. I don't know how many tg admirers you have met but there is a small (and growing) segment of men who do want to be with tg males. They dont' want post -op transexuals necessarily, but want a hot (sometimes) girl who also has boy parts. So this is obviously not 'gay' in the way we normally think of 'gay' but it is not really hetrosexual either is it? I mean there is a whole thriving porno industry catering to this emerging market. In Toronto there are several clubs which have trannie nights where there are tg dancers and stuff, so these guys are not going to strip bars to watch women, or men, but to see trannies.

I mean, any person who has been to a nite clubs that caters to tg's will see trannie chasers. Some are non-dressing/non-passable cd's who just want to mingle and date in the community. Some are not dressers at all. Some (I will boldy say) probably have had little luck with sexy (gg) women and dating a tg is as close as they will ever get to dating a woman with those body dimensions.

I dont' know if I would call them 'gay', but certainly bi-sexual or just confused. I mean in their minds it is 'scoially' acceptable to be out with a beautiful woman (who just happens to be a man underneath make up and clothing), as long as people don't think I am 'gay'. Which to me makes being 'gay' sound like a bad thing. I have met and known several trannie chasers and usually it all comes down to people not thinking they are 'gay' but wanting the 'experience' without the associated shame. Which is all kind of a bummer really. But, every now and then you meet an enlightened trannie chaser who makes no bones about wanting to be with a boy who can also be a hot girl, who is openly gay and has no desire to date gg's, just tv/cd's.


Anyway, hope I gave you some food for thought why regardless of definition, 'gay or bi' some women (gg SO's) will continue to be curious or confused. I mean I remember the first nite's I ever went to a tg bar, there was a man sitting there totally hitting on me, till he found out I was a gg. Then the compliments ended and he moved on. And some of these guys (chasers) will walk right in front of you and hit on your cdso. So, I can say it can be a bit bothersome even to someone as enthused about all this as I am.

hugs
kathy in canada








Reading through some of these points I have begun wondering exactly why a man, if they were indeed attracted to other men, would choose to dress up as a woman as a way to attract another man? If gay men are, by their very nature, attracted to men, why would they find a man dressed up as a woman attractive (if they could even recognize a man dressed up as a woman)?

[ebony]

A woman thinks that a man shouldnt do anything close to what a woman does even thoe they envy us everyday

[Marlena Dahlstrom]

Diva's in SF is well-known tranny bar (lots nominally off-duty tranny hookers hang out there), so I'm well acquainted with admirers. There's definitely a hierarchy. The tranny chasers are generally only interested in the TS girls who are on hormones or who've had breast implants. Although sometimes, they'll hit on us CDs, mainly because they're hoping to get a "free date."

I'd agree that many tranny chasers want to indulge in homosexual urges (my sense is most of them are bi to whatever degree) with plausible deniability. It can reach amusing levels -- a friend of mine who hangs out at BDSM/sex club in SF says even rather obviously gay drag queens will tell their admirers that they just started hormones, which makes it OK for the admirers.

And yes, they're looking for a girl with something extra and will drop a someone if he's realizes she's a GG. Part of it may be there's an attraction to a "girl" who's got the same sexuality as a man -- i.e. hot and ready to go, happy with wham-bam-thank-you-ma'am, and no "will you call me" in the morning. This is the common depiction in ******* porn. For what it's worth, "admirers" can be annoying to us CDs as well -- since they often seem to assume that bragging about their member or putting a crotch shot on their profile is a way to a girl's heart. Clueless, just clueless....

There are also some admirers who seem to be closeted CDs (possibly even to themselves). As you said, I think it's their way of getting close to being around what they want to be, but don't have the courage to do.

[Lauren_T]

Just an aside based on my personal experience...

What you've said about tranny-chasers is true - as far as it goes. *generalization alert* But around clubs 'n such, you wouldn't have encountered persons who, like myself, aren't 'chasing' anything in particular.

After having an incredible time with a Goth pre-op friend of my roomie, I reflected on what that indicated about me and came to the conclusion that there are times when the str8/bi/gay categories are too constrictive. What I am attracted to is femininity, not a particular type of gonads - and it would be the height of egocentrism to think for a moment that I'm the only one!

Men with boob jobs don't cut it (for me; YMMV), but a true pre-op who has grown her own boobs and curves is no less a girl to me than a gg (since I'm not interested in having children). I simply find men and masculinity repugnant, so my sole criteria are: 'Is this a girl, and is she what I regard as pretty?' Having the other kind of plumbing is just as enjoyable sexually, albeit in a different way, as 'OEM' equipment. I like to think of myself as free of irrational hangups in such matters. :D

[BlackMagic]

Hey, Nancy, I sorta know how you feel, but at least mine didn't keep repeating the "gay" question ... Maybe you need to come down a little harder nxt time, i.e., the old "What part of 'I don't like men that way' don't you understand?" approach.
You might also try loosening up on that "eyes-front" routine. Ogle other women to your hearts content. Window shopping won't break the bank as long as you stay on the sidewalk, right?

Something. You can't live with getting beat over the head with that question over and over. Can certainly understand where that could give you a complex or make you wonder. As far as ogleing goes though she might just think you like what they're wearing. I was lucky. My Wife was the one who told me I was normal and that plenty of guys like to do that. But she tends to research things and she wouldn't keep on asking me a question she thought bothered me. Too many posts to quote. Same points.

[Wendy me]

Glad to hear that, it's all that really matters.;)

If we are secure in ourselves what else does really matter?

Hugs, a sleepy Rachael. :)


thats all that matters see if your are or if your not and you don't hurt anyone who realy cares abought what we all do ....i think that if someone feels the need to judge outhers then thay should be totaly without any faults
as of yet in my short time on earth this person i have not met yet ...live and let live i say....

[Khriss]

the Question; Why would a "normal" guy want to dress up in Womens clothing ? ..seems a valid one.... though hang in,and be prepared for answers You might not have expected!?- I'm thinkin'-hehe :eek: :D "K"

[Stephanie]

Hi Stephanie,

I had to respond to your post. I don't know how many tg admirers you have met but there is a small (and growing) segment of men who do want to be with tg males. They dont' want post -op transexuals necessarily, but want a hot (sometimes) girl who also has boy parts. So this is obviously not 'gay' in the way we normally think of 'gay' but it is not really hetrosexual either is it? I mean there is a whole thriving porno industry catering to this emerging market. In Toronto there are several clubs which have trannie nights where there are tg dancers and stuff, so these guys are not going to strip bars to watch women, or men, but to see trannies.

I mean, any person who has been to a nite clubs that caters to tg's will see trannie chasers. Some are non-dressing/non-passable cd's who just want to mingle and date in the community. Some are not dressers at all. Some (I will boldy say) probably have had little luck with sexy (gg) women and dating a tg is as close as they will ever get to dating a woman with those body dimensions.

I dont' know if I would call them 'gay', but certainly bi-sexual or just confused. I mean in their minds it is 'scoially' acceptable to be out with a beautiful woman (who just happens to be a man underneath make up and clothing), as long as people don't think I am 'gay'. Which to me makes being 'gay' sound like a bad thing. I have met and known several trannie chasers and usually it all comes down to people not thinking they are 'gay' but wanting the 'experience' without the associated shame. Which is all kind of a bummer really. But, every now and then you meet an enlightened trannie chaser who makes no bones about wanting to be with a boy who can also be a hot girl, who is openly gay and has no desire to date gg's, just tv/cd's.


Anyway, hope I gave you some food for thought why regardless of definition, 'gay or bi' some women (gg SO's) will continue to be curious or confused. I mean I remember the first nite's I ever went to a tg bar, there was a man sitting there totally hitting on me, till he found out I was a gg. Then the compliments ended and he moved on. And some of these guys (chasers) will walk right in front of you and hit on your cdso. So, I can say it can be a bit bothersome even to someone as enthused about all this as I am.

hugs
kathy in canada

Well, Kathy, I guess that there are always exceptions to the conventional wisdom and logic. I must confess that I am somewhat ignorant about the transgendered community-at-large not having had much public exposure to it but I can see why some gay men might be interested in other men who don't look like men in the interest of appearing more "socially acceptable." That makes a certain amount of sense to me. It is still somewhat difficult, even given that though, for me to understand what the connection is between crossdressing and homosexuality and I still am not clear why so many GG believe that there is an association.