Im Afraid

[ruroken]

I use the word "crossing" to sugest another perception on crossdressing. I use the term as the act of our spirit to cross over to the unkown world. To our world of insticts, impulses, and emotions.

First lets look at what crossing is. From the stand point of an image, crossing is embodying the female form through material objects (clothes). Clothes are object in the world which hold no power of their own. They are not alive, they don't have a spirit, they are empty. They are material. But anybody here knows that is not what it seems like.

Our hope is to understand the spirit that hides behind and within the clothes.

The reason why im writing this is because I have been around this site and i seen middle-aged men and older men still crossing. Which is perfectly fine, whatever makes you happy. The thing that bothers me is that i see myself in your place. Which scares me. Not because im afraid of rejection or feel shame or guilt. I am genuinely scared.

Im scared of realizing that what i feel as "me" is somehow always wrong. I don't want to be in your position. Because i want to deal with the hardships of life as 1 not as two. I don't want a different personality to get certain things from the world (attention, love, affection) just because the other is incapable of doing it. I want it to be all through one....ME! Not a side,Not a gender, but the androgynous ME!

And if im still crossing at thirty then i feel what im writing now is empty. The person i am now is not actually here. As if there is something bigger which i am completely powerless against and no matter how much will i put into it will always checkmate me. And if thats true, then what is my life? What is my word? What is the point of trying to live as "you" when "you" don't exist? An empty vessel for something bigger.

I have purged before. Each time different, in a different light. The last time was after a horrible birthday followed by couple of hours of crying/sleep intervals. It was then i realized that it is my younger self which needs to be loved. I crossed because i was incapable of loving myself since no one loved me. So i gave my younger self an illusion. A fabrication of the presence of my mother when she actually wasn't there. So i could get rid of the responsibility of loving my younger self.

Im an adult now (early twenties) and i can't willingly and consciously divulge in fantasies, in illusions anymore. I am. And because I am then I am the only person capable of loving my younger self in all his innocence and mistakes. An illusion can't love him, she only showed me what i was missing.

Yet im afraid.

All this understanding yet i see in front of me future selves. And sayings like "it never leaves" or "it always comes back" which leave me with no defense or offense. And im afraid.

Afraid that after ten years i might still be incapable of loving my younger self. After ten years i still might be tightly tugged under the bosom of my spirit mother, my anima, still chasing something that is not as real as me.

Infact reality seems to be quite opposite. Here i think i will be thirty and living life as me, no need to consult material objects to get love. Yet i see the opposite. Men giving their anima names. Who have their own reasons and their own philosophy but i see myself in them, in you.

And for you i have a few questions:

Did you ever think that you will never cross again? If so how many times? And how sure were you? What was your reasoning behind it?

How did it grow to be a bigger and bigger part of your life? When did you name her? Why?

Do you ever feel "spiritually" trapped by the clothes?

Rather then feeling guilty/shame afterwards do you ever feel empty?

[crusadergirl]

I never feel empty, guilt are shame its like i'm missing something. I too do not want to go tho the world as 2 different people yet that is what i do.
The clothes don't make me who i am its what do that does.

[GaleWarning]

The clothes are only that, clothes.
I throw them away when they no longer fit or wear out.

But your use of the word "spiritual" got me thinking on another tack.
Is crossdressing a threat to one's personal spiritualism?

Is that perhaps why you sometimes feel empty?

[Jonianne]

Ruroken, obviously, you are super introspective. Probably, too much so. Some people have to find themselves by delving inside themselves, but often those of us who are extremely introspective already, must sometimes look outward and find ourselves in others, outside of ourselves. If we didn't get the love we needed as small children, it may take learning how to receive it from others, by really letting in the love others can give. It took me nearly 8 years in individual and group therapy to make a dent in learning that, but it was worth it.

One way to find the love you need for yourself, is to give it to others. Volunteer, make yourself to be a part of social groups, find ways of helping and nurturing others. The more you give, the more you receive. In time, as you start to accept others as who they are, you also begin to accept yourself as you are and the fear gradually subsides.

"I find my reflection in all those around, where inner connection so longed for is found" by Aliciaweb
http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?85181-More-From-Alicia&p=1584489&highlight=#post1584489

[Steph.TS]

ruroken, I see you are having trouble here, I can't speak for you, but this have been some in the background of my life, at 4 I thought to myself what's it like to be a girl. at 12/13 I started to crossdress and my family showed their lack of approval, I purged a couple times but finally kicked it. this yer I started working with a beautiful woman that wear wonderful clothes, while I appreciated her beauty I was also jealous that I couldn't get away with wer those clothes or if I could I wouldn't look nearly as good.

struggled with it several months but eventually gave in, once I felt I had enough scriptural information saying it was ok, since then I've realized that what I want is more than simply to wear clothing but to actually transition to become a woman.

I hate to tell you this but from what I've read on here, people can keep dressing and purging their whole life, the only thing it'll get them is they have to go out and buy more clothes when they want to dress again. to uses your term 'checkmate' but I personally don't see it that way atleast not anymore, and I am still 'me' I'm simply more receptive to part of myself that I've ignored for years.

to answer your questions:
1. when I stopped after my family were opposed to it I thought I had beat it, but it came back with a vengeance. I was so sure I didn't even thing about it, and went on with my life, my idea was out of side out of mind, and it was sucessful for a time but it ultimately failed.

2. well I explained that with the beautiful woman I work with once I started expressing myself even in private I started to realize what I ultimately wanted. the name I have selected I'm not sure I want to keep, I chose it as an alias so people IRL wouldn't know it's me, I'm thinking of Jane or Stephanie right now to be honest.

3. only when I thought it was a sin, I even took off my fem clothing when I was going to pray to God, but after I found what was enough for me to indicate it was safe, I pray to God in whatever clothing I'm wearing.

4. never empty because of my dressing, I look at my life that I've lived up until now, and it's that life I find to be empty, I never really lived my life, I was/still am afraid of what others think and what they might do. but I'm moving forward and feeling good about myself.

[Karren H]

Very well written and deep... But imho your over thinking the whole thing... For me I'm driven to crossdress and no amount of spiritual self examination into all those questions will change that fact.. That's why I accept what I do at face value and without question and make the best of it. Don't think I could live this way if I was always trying to analysis why.. I would go crazy... I am who I am and like what I like... Nothing wrong with that. And I have never felt empty for any reason..

[JohnH]

I'm sorry if I sound a little bit abrupt in a masculine way.

I do have some feminine feelings - otherwise I would not want to wear women's clothing. Before I allowed my feminine expression to develop I was chronically depressed - and that is not pleasing to God.

Don't feel bad for wanting to wear feminine clothing. Women freely wear masculine clothing and no one thinks anything about it. We males simply are exercising something that should not be disapproved.

I for one am glad I got past the stupid "masculinity anxiety" straitjacket of what a man can wear and what a man cannot wear. I still have to respect my wife's feelings, such as my not wearing a dress when she comes home from work.

I will never purge my feminine clothing since it is wrong to throw out perfectly good items, and I realize I would buy more in the future to replace the discarded items. To purge my wardrobe of skirts, dresses, and heels would be the same as a woman purging her wardrobe of her plaid shirts, jeans, and hiking boots.

And if anybody tries quoting Deuteronomy of how a man should not wear women's clothing point out that that passage forbids women from wearing men's clothing. Also that passage forbids mixing linen with wool.


Kind regards,

John

[juno]

Men are typically less in touch with their emotions than women. The result seems to be that crossdressing men are often confused about why they do it, and wonder "What am I?". You seem to be on a journey of getting in touch with your emotional side, but still have hangups from the early days of confusion. You just need to stop thinking of crossdressing as an attempt at being something you are not, and just listen to your feelings. There are people here who do a good job with the androgynous look. I have done plenty of feminine things in my life, but only started fully crossdressing around age 40. It is a lot of fun, but doesn't mean there is an identity crisis. Just relax and take pleasure in the things you like, without worrying about what it all means.

[Freddy12]

Ruroken,
I see that you are scared, and don't want to be 2 instead of 1. For many of us here, it's not a case of being two, but a case of letting one aspect of our being shine at one time, and another aspect shine at another time.

When I am at a ball game, I may yell loudly for my team, and even get too enthusiastic. That's one aspect of who I am. When at a classical music concert, I am quiet and enjoy just sitting and listening. It's not that I'm 2, but there are different aspects of the 1.

As we mature, many times we let different aspects of who we are come "out". I think that's what it is for me. I have always enjoyed women's clothes, but surpressed the urges. I purged, but have always come back. Now I embrace this aspect of who I am.

Best wishes as you struggle with this.

[Kelly DeWinter]

Ruroken,

A lot of deep thoughts there. From time to time people come to this site and post a thread, that suggests a 'new' aspect to being Transgendered or being a Crossdresser. Like you they don't like the idea of being a Crossdresser, and they purge, start over ,purge again. Vow that they can't live with themselves if they continue to dress. It becomes an endless cycle that wears them down mentaly,emotionaly,work, just about everything. OR you can take a deep breath, accept that you are who you are, and that that person is a great gal/guy who happens to like wearing the clothes of the opposite sex. Life become simple and enjoyable again. The fact that there is a whole community of people in the world composed of thousands of people in very diverse backgrounds should give you peace that you are not alone.

[AKAMichelle]

Fear can hold you captive forever unless you conquer your fear. There is a point where the two spirits balance out into one functioning person. It takes time and understanding. I wish I could tell when you would feel that way, but I can't. I didn't begin to find my balance until I was 48 and I have it now at 50. You will know when you arrive at that point when fear no longer controls your every movement. When you feel the same way regardless of the clothes you are wearing. At that point you don't feel different when dressed but you. It becomes just an extension of you (a part only).

It is a journey and the only advice that I can give you is to conquer your fear and enjoy the ride.

[Christy_M]

You have a lot going on. I feel deeply for you as you work through these things. You see yourself in a lot of us becasue a lot of us have been you. You are fortunate that there is so much more acceptance than we had growing up. It doesn't make the feelings within go away but it certainly provides some light that there are people in this world that will love you regardless of the guilt, shame and even emptiness you decribe. You have your whole life in front of you and you have the ability to shape the path you choose based on your own comfort level and self acceptance criteria. I too have always felt it is ME and not some half to a bigger whole. I have feared my whole life that I may end up with split personality that I would wake up somewhere not knowing where I am and my bung hole hurting. I know now that isn't going to happen. My brain isn't wired that way. I have this part of my being that I have to express and since society doesn't accept it, it stays closeted (per se) with very limited time in public. You have a large support center here to work through these things and if you are comfortable with it, counselling is an option where you can seek professional cupport from someone who may actually have experience in dealing with these types of issues. They are harder to find but if you put in the work, you can get the right one.

Now, for the questions:

Did you ever think that you will never cross again? All my life. Early on, as soon as I put my stuff away, I knew it was the last time. All three of my marriages were intended to get me to stop (in my mind).

If so how many times? Too many to count. I stopped purging when I was 38 becasue of the cost associated with it.

And how sure were you? I was as sure of quitting as I was when I quit smoking. It's been 13 years on the smoking part and I am putting on pantyhose this morning - go figure

What was your reasoning behind it? A strong sense that it was wrong and I shouldn't be doing it. I knew that if anyone found out, they would think I was a nut and not like me anymore.

How did it grow to be a bigger and bigger part of your life? This has only happened a few time, one of which I am in the middle of now. I can't really say how but that the "need" became so strong that I made decisions that I wouldn't normally make in terms of buying in the open and/or dressing closer to typically taboo spots like the bedroom while my wife slept.

When did you name her? Christy got her official name when I joined this site. Why? I had thought when I was younger what I would like to be called if I was a girl (ages 7 though 13) and had a list of derivitives of my real name (Chris). When I joined this site, Christy was entered into the page.

Do you ever feel "spiritually" trapped by the clothes? That is a big loaded question. When I dress, I need to feel "pretty" or at least good about myself when dressed. Connecting spirituality with emotional perceptions like self loathing and/or self acceptance and then on to faith from above (which for me is at times mutually exclusive of spirituality) causes a huge turmoil in me. I do feel that the need to express myself en femme pushes my decision making into a different direction than the facade I created to deal with the harsh realities of life.

Rather then feeling guilty/shame afterwards do you ever feel empty? Yes, all the time. There is a huge hole when I have dressed for hours and then have to get undressed and hide my stuff until the next time. As I get older, this hole seems too big to fill. When I dress, it goes away. once I get involved with my family or other activities, I think about it less but I find myself thinking about what I am going to wear the next time throughout most days.

I am sorry for the long post but I hope you are able to gleen something from all the posts you read here. Your OP seems a little down on yourself and you should always know that who you are matters if for no other reason other than you are here. You give a lot of us middle aged folks a glimmer of hope that your days will be better than our days when we were your age. Thank you for that.

Chris

[ruroken]

Ruroken,
I see that you are scared, and don't want to be 2 instead of 1. For many of us here, it's not a case of being two, but a case of letting one aspect of our being shine at one time, and another aspect shine at another time.

When I am at a ball game, I may yell loudly for my team, and even get too enthusiastic. That's one aspect of who I am. When at a classical music concert, I am quiet and enjoy just sitting and listening. It's not that I'm 2, but there are different aspects of the 1.

As we mature, many times we let different aspects of who we are come "out". I think that's what it is for me. I have always enjoyed women's clothes, but surpressed the urges. I purged, but have always come back. Now I embrace this aspect of who I am.

Best wishes as you struggle with this.

See the thing is that i have not suppressed my urge. I expressed the shit out of it. And by doing that i began to understand and slowly it started to fade and become nothing. It was like all the content that was held within my "femine" side had been encorporated into my "self" (not male or female). All the emotions that had been locked away for years came back and it felt great. I feel great. I love being what i am right now. Im totally fine with crossing. I even spent couple of months wearing womens jeans in my apartment with roommates around. They didnt say anyhting. Eventually that wore thin too. And stopped wearing them because i got tired of it... it didnt excite me anymore because i was fine with it and so were the people around me.... so it was like wearing any type of clothing and became empty like my male clothes

the reason fot the post was because we had a new roommate move in, an 18 year old girl. Which brought on not just the feeling to cross but also brought sexual fantasies with her. I crossed when i was younger because it was an attempt to "connect" with the females in my house who did not "connect" with me in a normal fashion (as a family). I knew this was going to happen before she moved in and i just observed it come on.

And i have the urge to wear her clothing, not buy my own clothing otherwise i would have done it by now. Which i think is my "instict" to be loved by a girl. But since i can't do that otherwise i try to do it with her clothing (an introverted short cut).

But i also had "daydreams" of me and her getting along basically like good friends or brother and sister which gave me a peace. even made me smile.

Why im afraid is similar to the fear of some people who are afraid to be their parents. But no matter how much they think about it or try to be something different they somehow become like their father/mother. And that fear has no place to go when they are younger, yet it keeps an eye on the very thing they don't want to be like (their parent). My fear is keeping an eye on you guys and is strenghtened by sayings like "it always comes back." Theres nothing i can do about it because i havent lived that long and i have never met someone who has genuinley stopped crossing, not because of fear, shame, or guilt but because they just got over it.

There is only one story here. JUST ONE. and thats "it always comes back".... wheres the other story? Where the story of "i grew out of it"?

[Rhonda Jean]

I almost stayed away from this one because it seems to deep to tackle, and I'm not quite smart enough to sort through it. Here's my shot, though.

"The other story?" I'm sure it happens, but you won't read it here because whoever "grew out of it" just wouldn't care anything about hanging around this forum anymore.

Without slicing this issue too thinly, as much as you read the stuff on here with fear and dread of becoming too much like us, realize a little about who we are. First, take away our one similarity, that to one extent or another we all like dressing like women. I know that's a stretch, but hang in there. Without knowing us, what do you think you have left that defines us as a group? Probably nothing! I tend to think of us as a little more compasionate than the norm, maybe even smarter, maybe even more financially successful. But maybe not. It doesn't matter. If your fear is that you'll become like me or like anyone else on this board, then you have little to fear. You'll be you, of course! Whether you view this thing of ours as a blessing or a curse, you'll find your own balance with it, just like the rest of us have.

Will you do it forever? Who knows. If you don't want to you don't have to. You'll probably cycle through a lot of interests in your life that at the time you're doing them it seems like you'll do them forever. If you were on a golf forum you probably wouldn't find any who'd quit that either. (And before anybody chastises me, yes, I know it's more than a hobby!)

You see snapshots of peoples lives on here. Keep in mind that most, if not all, of us have very well adjusted and fulfilling lives outside of obsessing over our hair and makeup. That's just the only snapshot that merits discussion on this board. If it turns out that you crossdress for the rest of your life, whether that's a blessing or a curse, that won't be everything you are. It's not everything "we" are. This is just a snapshot.

One other thing... I've been accused of being overly analytical. You, sweetheart, have redefined overly analytical. Thanks for getting that off of me!

[ruroken]

One other thing... I've been accused of being overly analytical. You, sweetheart, have redefined overly analytical. Thanks for getting that off of me!

hahaha thanks i guess. but i guess u (or i) have to be somewhat analytical about this. it just so happens the first step is a step into a spiral and the only way to get out is analyis things around you. analytical does have "anal" in it.... hmmm....

and yes that does make sense and the more i do read the posts of people here the more im actually understanding where you guys are comming from and where you are. i can tell you one thing though which im telling myself really.... is that my life has been waaayyy different then most people here. i came from a third world country when i was a kid, leaving my family behind. so i have a little different perspective. when i was a kid i was a kid. i didnt do anything fem or anything. i roamed around my village, played with sticks, looked at the stars and did a whole bunch of stuff that i loved.

Every since crossing i just never felt that way. like crossing is suppressing that side of me rather then the other way around. but it wasnt crossing that put me in a hole it was my reality. crossing just served to tell me what happened when i got old enough to understand it, and thats what i have been doing. but i feel like if i continue to cross it will keep me in the hole that i fell in when i was younger. keep me attached to a fantasy of a mother. i dont care about fitting in, im an outsider in this country to begin with. dont care about shame or guilt (no family near me). all i care about is the truth.

I just have to ease my mind of my unfounded fears, thats why im on here. To bud heads with you guys and try to understand your situation, your perspective, your phiosophy so i don't stereotype and paint everybody with a broad brush (i would be painting myself with it too) thats the only way i will ease my fears, by confronting them....


so.... thank you

[Debb]

Very well written and deep... But imho your over thinking the whole thing... For me I'm driven to crossdress and no amount of spiritual self examination into all those questions will change that fact.. That's why I accept what I do at face value and without question and make the best of it. Don't think I could live this way if I was always trying to analysis why.. I would go crazy... I am who I am and like what I like... Nothing wrong with that. And I have never felt empty for any reason..

I gotta agree with Karren. I've been doing this, off and on, for a long time .. nearly forty years. I still periodically go through periods of what I'll call "angst" because I'm just lazy that way ... the angst really gets old, and nowadays when I feel it coming on, I'm like, "meh".

Life is too short to dwell on stuff you can't change. Yeah, sometimes I wish that I could change it, that I could stop crossing ... but for me, I've faced that it just ain't gonna happen; my wife is more accepting of me than I myself am, and that's not right (hey I love that my wife loves me so much, don't get me wrong -- it's just that I should be in the same spot).

It's so much easier when you allow yourself to be yourself, without hating a part of yourself, without wishing for the umpteenth time that you could just quit.

I invite you to step into the light. It's a damn long hard road, but the steps get easier the more you take.

[Frédérique]

Im scared of realizing that what i feel as "me" is somehow always wrong. I don't want to be in your position. Because i want to deal with the hardships of life as 1 not as two. I don't want a different personality to get certain things from the world (attention, love, affection) just because the other is incapable of doing it. I want it to be all through one....ME! Not a side,Not a gender, but the androgynous ME!

Try looking at it from the standpoint (or idea) of gender integration, with crossdressing merely as the surface aspect of what is really going on inside. I am me, regardless of whether I’m dressed or not. The clothes just bring me closer to a state that I am desirous of, consisting of tactile sensations and their attendant mental benefits. My basic under-painting is androgynous...


Did you ever think that you will never cross again? If so how many times? And how sure were you? What was your reasoning behind it?

Crossing over and not crossing over is the same thing. I’m standing at the junction of the two genders, making a third by straddling the line. It’s not a conscious decision to be in one place or another. My shape-shifting is ongoing, and it’s not a struggle for control...


How did it grow to be a bigger and bigger part of your life? When did you name her? Why?

I named “her” purely for purposes of posting on this forum. I only have one personality.


Do you ever feel "spiritually" trapped by the clothes?

I really don’t believe in spirituality, via clothing or not, so I never feel trapped (by any definition).


Rather then feeling guilty/shame afterwards do you ever feel empty?

I never feel empty. I feel fulfilled, complete, and satisfied...

[Kathryn Martin]

Im scared of realizing that what i feel as "me" is somehow always wrong. I don't want to be in your position. Because i want to deal with the hardships of life as 1 not as two. I don't want a different personality to get certain things from the world (attention, love, affection) just because the other is incapable of doing it. I want it to be all through one....ME! Not a side,Not a gender, but the androgynous ME!

Did you ever think that you will never cross again? If so how many times? And how sure were you? What was your reasoning behind it?

How did it grow to be a bigger and bigger part of your life? When did you name her? Why?

Do you ever feel "spiritually" trapped by the clothes?

Rather then feeling guilty/shame afterwards do you ever feel empty?

While I have dressed very occasionally, I have spent my life becoming Kathryn Martin. She is one. I have cultivated my female soul, I have lived in gestation of my self and have taught her, comforted her and loved her. And when she was ready, some six months ago she was named by my life companion and was complete. Then, she learned to dress and to socialize. I have found that my birth was a phase transition, the sublimation of my male solidity to my female fluidity. When you speak of being trapped by clothes, I see the trappings weighed against your femaleness and find in the emptiness that she may be too light.

Bodies and Clothes are just cloaks we wear not what identifies us or makes us whole. Nurture her, but without the trappings, and give up loving her proxies, she needs your love, not the clothes.

[ruroken]

I gotta agree with Karren. I've been doing this, off and on, for a long time .. nearly forty years. I still periodically go through periods of what I'll call "angst" because I'm just lazy that way ... the angst really gets old, and nowadays when I feel it coming on, I'm like, "meh".

Life is too short to dwell on stuff you can't change. Yeah, sometimes I wish that I could change it, that I could stop crossing ... but for me, I've faced that it just ain't gonna happen; my wife is more accepting of me than I myself am, and that's not right (hey I love that my wife loves me so much, don't get me wrong -- it's just that I should be in the same spot).

It's so much easier when you allow yourself to be yourself, without hating a part of yourself, without wishing for the umpteenth time that you could just quit.

I invite you to step into the light. It's a damn long hard road, but the steps get easier the more you take.

aahhh see theres my problem. As if stepping into the light belongs only in the realm of me being a female. As if "stepping into the light" could not be the other side. Theres also this willing assumption of guilt/shame/fear. Not everyone has that. I dont hate that part of myself at all. But i don't like it, i dont like it in the same way i don't like my male side. They are both too one sided.

Heres my point....

The balance like buddha said "is the middle way," not a third gender but no gender. Thats what i feel i am at. The begining of my "will." And my will does not want to be tied down to clothes because i consider it a protective shell, which protected me from ther harsh realities of life (like a mother does). But since i understand both sides, the other side says "your wrong" just a fear that im wrong. not something that is substantial but just a feeling, a small feeling which existis and is supported by people who believe "it always comes back" and "i cant change it". Now your situation might be different then mine... it most likely is. Some might be born with it others (like myself) used it to compensate for a lack of love.

but this philosophy that people on this site hold might do harm to us younger kids who might have different reasons for doing it. To me its like the female side holds more power...but only for one reason and thats because its socially inacceptable. Its like if you go to the side thats socially acceptable --- your running away. If you go over to the female side--- your running to. the balance has nothing to do with whether its acceptable or not. This power might be in my head only or it also might exist outside, in groups, and in society.

you ever wonder if there are any straight gay guys just like there are gay straight guys? Laws of the universe (there are no absolutes) say its true. But nobody would ever question a straight gay guy, while everybody jumps on the gay straight guy.

[ruroken]

Try looking at it from the standpoint (or idea) of gender integration, with crossdressing merely as the surface aspect of what is really going on inside. I am me, regardless of whether I’m dressed or not. The clothes just bring me closer to a state that I am desirous of, consisting of tactile sensations and their attendant mental benefits. My basic under-painting is androgynous...

totally agree. The image is the very surface of whats going on. The real substance is within.

But has anyone ever tried to get the content from the anima inside in any other way? other then crossing

[Bethany38]

Ruroken, here are my responses to your ?'s


And for you i have a few questions:

Did you ever think that you will never cross again? Oh yes When I was a younger man I had a lot of guilt and shame over dressing. If so how many times? A few, when I was in my early teens. Then I buried that part of me so deep She stayed away for thirty years, What a waste! And how sure were you? I was, without any doubt in my mind, going to succeed. What was your reasoning behind it? Many reasons the shame and guilt I felt. My grandfather was a C.D. and was talked about like a freak. I can remember my Father telling me I had better never turn out like that panty wearing f#&&*t. So from my earliest memories I know there was something wrong with me. I did not want to let my Family down, I did not want to go to hell, All I wanted was to be normal. I did not know then that normal for me is dressing as a she.

How did it grow to be a bigger and bigger part of your life? As I said earlier I repressed her for thirty some odd years. Bethany re-emerged one fateful night whist the Wife and I were playing around and I put on a pair of her stockings. When did you name her? I named her the very day I joined this site. I knew her name without thought though. I have always loved the name Bethany. Why? It would be kind of awkward trying to present as femme and be introduced by my male name.

Do you ever feel "spiritually" trapped by the clothes? No I used to have a whole lot of spiritual guilt over my dressing. Some times I still do, but I have talked with different theologians and they do not seem to believe (my crossing as you put it) is that big a deal.

Rather then feeling guilty/shame afterwords do you ever feel empty? Nope

[Aprilrain]

I think it is incorrect to say that clothes have no power and they are empty. Of course they are empty literally and figuratively when no one is wearing them but put them on and both wearer and clothing change. The human mind is hard wired to interact with and to interpret symbols. In a highly organized and advanced society clothing is a powerful symbol. Leaving the whole gender expression issue aside look at all of the different ways people can dress within the norms of a single gender. What you wear when and where are often very important. One does not go to a formal wedding without a suit or dress on for instance. You would however look quite odd climbing a utility pole in such garb. On the other hand I could have no business climbing a utility pole but if I were wearing coveralls leather gloves and a hard hat no one would think twice. We usually wear what is comfortable say jeans and a teeshirt but most of us can't wear that to work why because some type of uniform or dress code is the standard. Imagin the person who read your electric meter wondering around the neiborhood without some type of identifying uniform on S/he would soon be have a talk with the police.

The point being that for most of us on this site there is a real and subsatial power that comes from cross dressing. For many it is an imparative that society interact with them as female and society knows to do that by interpreting our symbols.

[ruroken]

I think it is incorrect to say that clothes have no power and they are empty. Of course they are empty literally and figuratively when no one is wearing them but put them on and both wearer and clothing change. The human mind is hard wired to interact with and to interpret symbols. In a highly organized and advanced society clothing is a powerful symbol. Leaving the whole gender expression issue aside look at all of the different ways people can dress within the norms of a single gender. What you wear when and where are often very important. One does not go to a formal wedding without a suit or dress on for instance. You would however look quite odd climbing a utility pole in such garb. On the other hand I could have no business climbing a utility pole but if I were wearing coveralls leather gloves and a hard hat no one would think twice. We usually wear what is comfortable say jeans and a teeshirt but most of us can't wear that to work why because some type of uniform or dress code is the standard. Imagin the person who read your electric meter wondering around the neiborhood without some type of identifying uniform on S/he would soon be have a talk with the police.

The point being that for most of us on this site there is a real and subsatial power that comes from cross dressing. For many it is an imparative that society interact with them as female and society knows to do that by interpreting our symbols.

i agree and well put. any and all emotions/sensations we have attached to clothing comes from us.

[ruroken]

AHA! Found it.

"article about crossdressing"



At midlife, he experiences unhappiness due to the unrealistic and limiting nature of his masculine persona. At this time he may feel a strong, even overpowering interest in wearing women's clothes, or of being a woman in fantasy. This urge is natural and healthy: it is because his completeness as a person requires expressing the potentials he has repressed.

Lacking societal cues that validate or guide his impulses, he experiences confusion. The world says crossdressing is wrong, but his 'heart' says it is right. Guilt, shame, moral concerns, and his own overly idealized view of masculinity constrain his crossdressing. He also asks questions like "Am I gay" and "Should I change my sex?" The stage of confusion can last years and decades. The crossdresser may dress often, delve into the culture of crossdressing, or even take female hormones. Or he may remain highly closeted. But the hallmark of this phase is that he remains confused and highly ambivalent, uncertain how to proceed.

This seems a terminal point for many. However, the theories of Jung and others imply that this is not the proper end point, but merely arrested development.

If the crossdressing urge is really adaptive--a response by the organism to remove barriers that have effectively repressed half of the man's potentials--we can speculate that further developmental stages are possible: The crossdresser recognizes the positive, healing meaning of crossdressing. At this point, crossdressing becomes supported, rather than rejected, by the ego; he may then pursue crossdressing as a constructive activity, now freed from previous moral constraints. But, by the same token, recognition of the positive meaning of the urges also brings an appreciation of sensible limits.

The crossdresser gradually experiences his "inner female." As he does, he finds parts that are of fundamental importance, and realizes that these transcend labels of 'male' or 'female'. He also learns to distinguish the positive, profound parts of the anima (spirituality, love, beauty, etc.) from the trivial (promiscuity, vanity, etc.).

For a while the crossdresser experiences his male and female personalities as distinct. Eventually he allows parts of the female into his ordinary male personality. This stage gradually merges with the next.

The inclusion of the female effects a change in the male personality, producing a new personality that is better than either alone. The female empowers and transforms the male. This stage is ongoing. The new self continues to grow--presumably in the direction of greater spirituality and service to others.

It is consistent with the anima theory that the urge to crossdress may diminish during these later stages. The crossdresser now understands that it was not the clothing or being a woman that he sought--these merely symbolized the deeper aspects of his personality he sought to express. Once he experiences and expresses these aspects directly, female clothing itself has less meaning and importance.


Ruroken,

A lot of deep thoughts there. From time to time people come to this site and post a thread, that suggests a 'new' aspect to being Transgendered or being a Crossdresser. Like you they don't like the idea of being a Crossdresser, and they purge, start over ,purge again. Vow that they can't live with themselves if they continue to dress. It becomes an endless cycle that wears them down mentaly,emotionaly,work, just about everything. OR you can take a deep breath, accept that you are who you are, and that that person is a great gal/guy who happens to like wearing the clothes of the opposite sex. Life become simple and enjoyable again. The fact that there is a whole community of people in the world composed of thousands of people in very diverse backgrounds should give you peace that you are not alone.

never read this article before...

and it was this that i am trying to convey. If somebody comes to you at this stage of his crossing do you just tell him that he needs to accept his crossing and give in?

"Its okay if you feel shame and guilt."
"Don't hate that part of you."
"just accept yourself"

There is definitely a dogma attached to certain people's philosophy. its as if that group constantly negates the idea that you can actually "grow out of it" by accepting "it always returns" and spreading that philosophy around. And it was that which scared me. As someone who is young and has much less experience in life i am liable to listen to older person's words and especially about a topic such as this.

When i started yesterday it was this inevitable truth that scared me. That there were/are people who have thought of this as over but always returned. You have no defense/offense for that. And because your left in the middle the fear of not knowing becomes bigger and bigger. And no body can give you a good perspective. All the perspectives are coming from one side and some are even dogmatic.

[TinaMc]

Well the article says that it's only anima theory that suggests that it may be the case that the urge diminishes. I wonder if Jung actually witnessed that happening, or if it's just a part of the theory? Which incidentally was highly speculative anyway (anima and animus are constructs of the theory and don't exist in reality, a lot like Freud's id, ego and superego).

People can only really talk about their experiences, and it seems that for most crossdressers they purge and then un-purge. This is also in the literature. It may well be that you can stop it or grow out of it or what have you. I'd say that the healthiest way would be to try more to integrate the feminine side of you into your normal existence, sure. That's definitely got to be better than throwing all your clothes away as an expression of the shame and guilt you feel about what you are doing. Can it be done though? I'm not convinced.

Am I right in thinking that your negative feelings towards crossdressing are that you don't really want to picture yourself as a middle aged crossdresser? Maybe you should focus less on the future, it's a bit of a trap. When I was 19 I was supposed to be a multimillionaire by the time I hit 35, but here I am and I'm basically skint ;)...

[Jonianne]

I'm not sure if this is the direction you want to take, but there is another path. While I believe it is true that the "desire" to crossdress will never contuniously stay gone, there are those who have chosen to ignore those desires and live a life without actually crossdressing. The ones that seem to be the most successful, are the ones that still accept that they are crossdressers and that it's not a bad thing, they just refuse to act on their desire due to whatever particular circumstance they have chosen to live in.

It's like a faithful priest or nun that denies allowing themselves to act on their normal desire for sex and marriage, but to focus their life on what they feel are higher causes. It obviously can be done, but it takes a lot of disclipine.

[Rianna Humble]

This will be long, so if you don't like reading detailed answers, please feel free to skip to the next post


I use the word "crossing" to suggest another perception on crossdressing. I use the term as the act of our spirit to cross over to the unknown world. To our world of instincts, impulses, and emotions.

I'm not sure I agree with your reasoning, but in the end whether you call it cross-dressing, transvestism, corssing or cream-cheese the activity remains the same, so I will use your term for the purposes of this reply.


The reason why im writing this is because I have been around this site and i seen middle-aged men and older men still crossing. Which is perfectly fine, whatever makes you happy. The thing that bothers me is that i see myself in your place. Which scares me. Not because im afraid of rejection or feel shame or guilt. I am genuinely scared.

Im scared of realizing that what i feel as "me" is somehow always wrong.

Thanks to other "spiritually minded" people, I spent decades believing that who I am was "wrong" so I can sympathise with you on that score. The long-term result of that was depression leading to thoughts of self-harm or self-termination.

When I came to realise that what I do is a result of who I am (not the other way around), I was faced with a choice - accept who I am and find out what that means, or reject who I am with the obvious conclusion.




I don't want to be in your position. Because i want to deal with the hardships of life as 1 not as two. I don't want a different personality to get certain things from the world (attention, love, affection) just because the other is incapable of doing it. I want it to be all through one....ME! Not a side, Not a gender, but the androgynous ME!

I may occasionally refer to myself in terms of two people, but I have only ever been one. Every person is multi-faceted, so I believe that your attempt to reject different sides of who you are is not helpful. You will not act the same when you are at a rock concert as you would at a funeral. Does that make what you are doing wrong? If you are ONE person, with no sides, shouldn't you behave the same in all circumstances?



And if im still crossing at thirty then i feel what im writing now is empty.

How you view that at thirty will depend on your viewpoint at that age. You may feel that your reasoning was empty, or you may feel that there was truth behind what you wrote but it was only as complete as your life-experience to date. IMNSHO, no-one's life experience is ever complete for as long as they live and if we keep an open mind we can learn from others and from new experiences whether we be 16 or 116 (I am neither of those two ages).

My beliefs at age 54 are different to those I held at age 20. Does that mean that what I believed at age twenty was empty? Or does it mean that I have acquired new life experiences since then that have shed new light on my beliefs? Some things haven't changed fundamentally - such as my belief in the need for fairness, respect for others, and equality of opportunity for all or the fact that the team I support are still the greatest team in the world for me.


I have purged before. Each time different, in a different light. The last time was after a horrible birthday followed by couple of hours of crying/sleep intervals. It was then i realized that it is my younger self which needs to be loved. I crossed because i was incapable of loving myself since no one loved me. So i gave my younger self an illusion.

I hope I am wrong, but I feel that you are in danger of trying to make the facts fit the theory rather than examining whether your theory fits the facts.


Im an adult now (early twenties) and i can't willingly and consciously divulge in fantasies, in illusions anymore.

If you are absolutely positive that "crossing" is only a fantasy, you will have no difficulty in putting it away forever. From what you write, you have tried and failed more than once. Does that not tell you anything other than that the facts don't fit?


I have a few questions:

Did you ever think that you will never cross again? If so how many times? And how sure were you? What was your reasoning behind it?

How did it grow to be a bigger and bigger part of your life? When did you name her? Why?

Do you ever feel "spiritually" trapped by the clothes?

Rather then feeling guilty/shame afterwards do you ever feel empty?

I never went through the cycles of splurge and purge that many others here have been through. From time to time I would secretly borrow an article of clothing from someone and dress. Every time, I felt a great sense of peace until I remembered that the "spiritually-minded" people had told me that I was wrong, then I would feel guilt, never shame.

This grew to be a bigger part of me when I decided that rather than reject who I am, I would accept myself and choose to live.
When I joined this website, I still needed to hide my male identity to avoid causing extreme difficulties and mental anguish to certain people who I hold dear. I asked myself what my name would be if I were a woman and the name I have now seemed to fit me like a glove.


this philosophy that people on this site hold might do harm to us younger kids who might have different reasons for doing it.

This site doesn't hold any philosophy - it is an inanimate thing. The people on this site have a philosophy that allows them to support other people who cross-dress or who are friends/family/significant others of those who do. To say that this support can be harmful betrays either a lack of understanding of what support is or a crass attitude to those who try to help here. I hope that in your case it is the former.


you ever wonder if there are any straight gay guys just like there are gay straight guys?

I believe that you are confusing gender and sexuality. In relation to whether someone is gay or not, the term straight is normally used to mean heterosexual (men or women) and gay to mean homosexual (men). This being so, your proposition that there might be "straight gay guys" and "gay straight guys" makes no sense at all. How can you have a heterosexual homosexual or a homosexual heterosexual?

I believe that you are asking whether some cross-dressers may be hetero and some not. The answer to that is definitely yes there are some of each and also some bisexual cross-dressers, but their gender presentation is totally separate from their sexuality.

Please take the time to reflect on what is behind your fears. I get the distinct feeling from your posts in this thread that you are trying to reason your way out of accepting yourself for who you are and that part of the cause of this is that from a "spiritual" point of view you believe that to be other than cisgendered is morally wrong. As soon as you try to graft morality onto what for many (if not for all) is a product of their innermost being you begin to put an artificial straight-jacket onto yourself and those you so judge.

Others have commented on your question about where are the contributions from those who have stopped cross-dressing. There may be some for whom cross-dressing was a phase in their life-experience. I have never met any and I would not expect them to continue contributing to a support site for those who are cross-dressers, transsexuals, friends and loved-ones. There is no judgement intended in that statement.

:2c:

[ruroken]

Well the article says that it's only anima theory that suggests that it may be the case that the urge diminishes. I wonder if Jung actually witnessed that happening, or if it's just a part of the theory? Which incidentally was highly speculative anyway (anima and animus are constructs of the theory and don't exist in reality, a lot like Freud's id, ego and superego).

People can only really talk about their experiences, and it seems that for most crossdressers they purge and then un-purge. This is also in the literature. It may well be that you can stop it or grow out of it or what have you. I'd say that the healthiest way would be to try more to integrate the feminine side of you into your normal existence, sure. That's definitely got to be better than throwing all your clothes away as an expression of the shame and guilt you feel about what you are doing. Can it be done though? I'm not convinced.

Am I right in thinking that your negative feelings towards crossdressing are that you don't really want to picture yourself as a middle aged crossdresser? Maybe you should focus less on the future, it's a bit of a trap. When I was 19 I was supposed to be a multimillionaire by the time I hit 35, but here I am and I'm basically skint ;)...

No thats not my fear, thats just what the surface looks like to someone looking in. What im afraid of is needing crossing when im thirty. So far in my life it has helped me grow-no doubt about that. But i also think that i have to let it go in order to move on in life and become my "self." And it is this "self" i want to become. not out of shame or guilt because i genuenly believe its better then either my male or female side. Clothing are the vehicle for your anima (female side), they are not the thing it self. I just hope i don't need the vehicle, since in the end my anima is my"self". So i look at the physical act of dress as a crutch to get what i need. I should be able to BE all the time. rather then sometimes only with a dress on. And to be your "self" to BE both male/female at the same time. The unifcation of both sides.

So i look at the physical act of dress when im thirty as a failure to realize this higher and more balanced state.

And that part that i "bolded" actually happened to me. I went through all those stages and i completley understand the theory. And yes its still a theory because my situation is different then others. I am an artist and i can express myself pretty damn good. I draw and when i draw i see all sides of me. and i see that my female side is only one side of, not the whole thing.

I look at crossing as a mother who is too afraid to let go of her child and a child too afraid to let go of his mom (all in one) because he is scared of the harsh realities of life. That love is not easy to get. You wount be a millionaire. Im not gonna be famous. Life is sufferring and i want to find the beauty in my sufferring rather then give myself an illusion to occupy my mind while life moves on and i waste away.

[ruroken]

This will be long, so if you don't like reading detailed answers, please feel free to skip to the next post



Thanks to other "spiritually minded" people, I spent decades believing that who I am was "wrong" so I can sympathise with you on that score. The long-term result of that was depression leading to thoughts of self-harm or self-termination.

When I came to realise that what I do is a result of who I am (not the other way around), I was faced with a choice - accept who I am and find out what that means, or reject who I am with the obvious conclusion.

I might be just picking bones here but thats not what i meant as "wrong" as if my being is "wrong" and "unmoral." what i meant was that the being that i am and all the understanding that has gone with it and all the pushes and pulls and the ups and downs and expressions and repressions has led me to this moment. to where i am now and where i am is in a state where i don't need "dressing" and it has beome empty to a large extent, not by repression but through EXPRESSION.

By "wrong" i meant that all this might somehow still be "wrong" (not morally or spirtually) and that fear only exists for two reasons one is my own impulse and the other because of the philosophy "it always comes back"




How you view that at thirty will depend on your viewpoint at that age. You may feel that your reasoning was empty, or you may feel that there was truth behind what you wrote but it was only as complete as your life-experience to date. IMNSHO, no-one's life experience is ever complete for as long as they live and if we keep an open mind we can learn from others and from new experiences whether we be 16 or 116 (I am neither of those two ages).

My beliefs at age 54 are different to those I held at age 20. Does that mean that what I believed at age twenty was empty? Or does it mean that I have acquired new life experiences since then that have shed new light on my beliefs? Some things haven't changed fundamentally - such as my belief in the need for fairness, respect for others, and equality of opportunity for all or the fact that the team I support are still the greatest team in the world for me.

i agree about that whole viewpoint thing.

the emptiness is think on different things. It would be empty in my case because whats behind me now is "will" and your (im guessing) was just a view point of life. Im not saying that is empty, just my "will"



I hope I am wrong, but I feel that you are in danger of trying to make the facts fit the theory rather than examining whether your theory fits the facts.

You are. and what happened on my birthday had nothing to do with crossing ( i think i hadnt dressed for months at that point) it was another incident on realted because i was chasing a fantasy and reality came and hit me pretty hard.



If you are absolutely positive that "crossing" is only a fantasy, you will have no difficulty in putting it away forever. From what you write, you have tried and failed more than once. Does that not tell you anything other than that the facts don't fit?


But your assuming that a person can't grow. Just because you didnt understand something at 20, 22, 24 doesnt mean your not gonna understand it at 25 or 26 or 54.

Its a fantasy because i only chase the next big thing. And everytime i did that next big thing i got used to and i had to construct another big thing to chase. First it was just panties then i got bored and went clothes and got bored and started to shop and got bored started to dress out but got bored had sex with a guy but got bored. And everytime i went to something bigger it always became empty after a certain time. which is a fantasy because i could never grasp what i was chasing. because what i was chasing was my past, my "self" in disguise.



This site doesn't hold any philosophy - it is an inanimate thing. The people on this site have a philosophy that allows them to support other people who cross-dress or who are friends/family/significant others of those who do. To say that this support can be harmful betrays either a lack of understanding of what support is or a crass attitude to those who try to help here. I hope that in your case it is the former.

I might have jumped the gun on that one. sorry.



I believe that you are confusing gender and sexuality. In relation to whether someone is gay or not, the term straight is normally used to mean heterosexual (men or women) and gay to mean homosexual (men). This being so, your proposition that there might be "straight gay guys" and "gay straight guys" makes no sense at all. How can you have a heterosexual homosexual or a homosexual heterosexual?

I believe that you are asking whether some cross-dressers may be hetero and some not. The answer to that is definitely yes there are some of each and also some bisexual cross-dressers, but their gender presentation is totally separate from their sexuality.

Haha no im not. not at all. OKAY! you know how some guys think there straight but with time they find out they are gay. Have you ever wondered is there are some guys who think they are gay and with time they find out they are straight?




Please take the time to reflect on what is behind your fears. I get the distinct feeling from your posts in this thread that you are trying to reason your way out of accepting yourself for who you are and that part of the cause of this is that from a "spiritual" point of view you believe that to be other than cisgendered is morally wrong. As soon as you try to graft morality onto what for many (if not for all) is a product of their innermost being you begin to put an artificial straight-jacket onto yourself and those you so judge.

You completley misunderstood me. i think its my fault. My spirtuality is not tied to a religion. Not to some church or some belief that my family has held for generations. I dont believe that crossing is immoral or a "sin"... thats just what you have been fed. My spirtuality is about truth. About accepting life as it is. Not MY life but LIFE... as in ALL OF EXISTENCE



Others have commented on your question about where are the contributions from those who have stopped cross-dressing. There may be some for whom cross-dressing was a phase in their life-experience. I have never met any and I would not expect them to continue contributing to a support site for those who are cross-dressers, transsexuals, friends and loved-ones. There is no judgement intended in that statement.

Don't get me wrong i really appreciate all you guys talking about this. Im here to understand your perspectives/lives/and philosophy. and in order to do that i have to express what i feel and if anybody points out to me that i am some how wrong or running away i want to deal with that head on and express what i have learned and see where that leads.

I will truthfully look at myself with honesty because what im for isnt "safety and security" but the chaos of the "truth"

[ruroken]

I'm not sure if this is the direction you want to take, but there is another path. While I believe it is true that the "desire" to crossdress will never contuniously stay gone, there are those who have chosen to ignore those desires and live a life without actually crossdressing. The ones that seem to be the most successful, are the ones that still accept that they are crossdressers and that it's not a bad thing, they just refuse to act on their desire due to whatever particular circumstance they have chosen to live in.

It's like a faithful priest or nun that denies allowing themselves to act on their normal desire for sex and marriage, but to focus their life on what they feel are higher causes. It obviously can be done, but it takes a lot of disclipine.

But im not denying. What i get from crossing is a subsitute of love and presence. A mother. All i want to do is have REAL love and presence in all its unperfectedness. (not sure if thats a word). And not from the outside but from the inside. I want REAL love from myself rather then a constructed subsitute of love from myself.

[Emily Ann Brown]

Too much thinking...it's like being at work...YUCK!

My tale is...learn to love your self and figure out who you are, then go for it!!! I did. The going for it costs me a lot. But I AM happy!

Have I even walked away from who I am? Twice. Will I do it again? Not on your life!

I am a woman who crossdresses for a paycheck, but they know who I am.


Em

[msniki48]

you little monster you!!! [ very cute! you always know how to take it to the base.

thats why i love you so much! :battingeyelashes:

hugs

[ruroken]

Too much thinking...it's like being at work...YUCK!

My tale is...learn to love your self and figure out who you are, then go for it


Em

im not thinking....im expressing

lets replace "thinking" with "expressing"

How do you "figure out" who you are without "expressing"? And when its your truth thats at stake... can you really "express" too much? or will you "express" just enough until you find out who you are?

thats what im doing. And trust me this is the most "expressing" i have done in two and 1/2 days in my life.

[Kelly DeWinter]

AHA! Found it.

"article about crossdressing"





never read this article before...

and it was this that i am trying to convey. If somebody comes to you at this stage of his crossing do you just tell him that he needs to accept his crossing and give in?

"Its okay if you feel shame and guilt."
"Don't hate that part of you."
"just accept yourself"

There is definitely a dogma attached to certain people's philosophy. its as if that group constantly negates the idea that you can actually "grow out of it" by accepting "it always returns" and spreading that philosophy around. And it was that which scared me. As someone who is young and has much less experience in life i am liable to listen to older person's words and especially about a topic such as this.

When i started yesterday it was this inevitable truth that scared me. That there were/are people who have thought of this as over but always returned. You have no defense/offense for that. And because your left in the middle the fear of not knowing becomes bigger and bigger. And no body can give you a good perspective. All the perspectives are coming from one side and some are even dogmatic.


I hear a lot of "worry","fear of","scared" in your posts . I think by reading past posts by other people here you will find the ultimate peace that the TG/CD gals can find is when they accept themselves for who they are, not "what" other percieve them to be.

[Jonianne]

.....I want REAL love from myself rather then a constructed subsitute of love from myself.

If you do not know how to give REAL love to yourself, then learn how by "letting in" and "receiving" the love and caring all of us and others around you are trying to give you. It doesn't matter what the advice is, it's the fact that we are trying to show caring. Let that sink in and know that you are NOT alone.

Untill you choose to do that, you cannot learn to love yourself.

A good book resource is "Celebrate Yourself" by Dorothy Corkille Briggs.

"I find my reflection in all those around, where inner connection so longed for is found" by Aliciaweb
http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/...t=#post1584489

[Reggie Campion]

I never feel empty, guilt are shame its like i'm missing something. I too do not want to go tho the world as 2 different people yet that is what i do.
The clothes don't make me who i am its what do that does.

I just started dressing after ten years of not. The quote above says it all for me.
Reggie

[ruroken]

If you do not know how to give REAL love to yourself, then learn how by "letting in" and "receiving" the love and caring all of us and others around you are trying to give you. It doesn't matter what the advice is, it's the fact that we are trying to show caring. Let that sink in and know that you are NOT alone.

Untill you choose to do that, you cannot learn to love yourself.

A good book resource is "Celebrate Yourself" by Dorothy Corkille Briggs.

"I find my reflection in all those around, where inner connection so longed for is found" by Aliciaweb
http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/...t=#post1584489

ummmm...........i think you just gave me the answer. You guys are not getting in what respect i am trying to have this discussion. All you see/hear/ and feel from my posts is a mirror image of yourself and what you went through.

And i can't accept myself as a female in the same way i can't acccept myself as JUST male. They both are "PART" of me, not ME. I "DO" accept myself but my "self" without a gender, the in between.

And i do have a hard time letting love in, basically because i don't know how. But getting "love" from internet users who are communicating by digital messaging from around the country/world is a little hard i have to say.

But YES I do have to love myself. And im getting better at that. I'll start with the person closest to me (myself) and work my way out.

And AGAIN dont get me wrong. i do appreciate you guys talking.... im sure its getting a little annoying...

[TinaMc]

No thats not my fear, thats just what the surface looks like to someone looking in. What im afraid of is needing crossing when im thirty. So far in my life it has helped me grow-no doubt about that. But i also think that i have to let it go in order to move on in life and become my "self." And it is this "self" i want to become. not out of shame or guilt because i genuenly believe its better then either my male or female side. Clothing are the vehicle for your anima (female side), they are not the thing it self. I just hope i don't need the vehicle, since in the end my anima is my"self". So i look at the physical act of dress as a crutch to get what i need. I should be able to BE all the time. rather then sometimes only with a dress on. And to be your "self" to BE both male/female at the same time. The unifcation of both sides.

So i look at the physical act of dress when im thirty as a failure to realize this higher and more balanced state.

And that part that i "bolded" actually happened to me. I went through all those stages and i completley understand the theory. And yes its still a theory because my situation is different then others. I am an artist and i can express myself pretty damn good. I draw and when i draw i see all sides of me. and i see that my female side is only one side of, not the whole thing.

I look at crossing as a mother who is too afraid to let go of her child and a child too afraid to let go of his mom (all in one) because he is scared of the harsh realities of life. That love is not easy to get. You wount be a millionaire. Im not gonna be famous. Life is sufferring and i want to find the beauty in my sufferring rather then give myself an illusion to occupy my mind while life moves on and i waste away.

I think you are just trying too hard and really overthinking the whole thing. It's not a big deal if you want to crossdress, and it's not a big deal if you don't. Crossdressing or not isn't indicative of achieving a higher balanced state, it just means you like to wear women's clothes. It could be due to your relationship with your family, it might not. Either way, from my own perspective I enjoy it and have a bit of fun escapism through it. It's not really a bigger deal than watching a movie or having a few drinks or whatever. Life is a journey, not a destination...

[Jonianne]

ummmm...........i think you just gave me the answer. You guys are not getting in what respect i am trying to have this discussion. All you see/hear/ and feel from my posts is a mirror image of yourself and what you went through.

Exactly. That is what the root word relate means in a relationship. We relate to each other by trying to find common experiences. FEEDBACK is what you use to help someone understand a little better each time you relate, which is what you are doing when you respond.


And i can't accept myself as a female in the same way i can't acccept myself as JUST male. They both are "PART" of me, not ME. I "DO" accept myself but my "self" without a gender, the in between.

I, too, believe our true "selves" do not have gender. Gender happens when a body and mind is added to a soul. In that body and mind, there is some of both genders.


And i do have a hard time letting love in, basically because i don't know how. But getting "love" from internet users who are communicating by digital messaging from around the country/world is a little hard i have to say.

Every thing inbetween people is a medium. Whether it's the internet, wireless cell phones, radio, wired telephones, the air in a room passing sounds called words when you are with people and even your body when someone gives you a hug, is a medium between the inner you and the inner other person.

If you don't believe love and help can pass through the medium of the internet, why are you here, reaching out?


But YES I do have to love myself. And im getting better at that. I'll start with the person closest to me (myself) and work my way out.

That's good that you are getting better at loving yourself, but it is amplified and increases faster when you interact in a relationship with others, giving and receiving. Focusing on the ego-centric will only make progress much slower, IMHO. Keep reaching out, you receive love as you give love.

[ruroken]

If you don't believe love and help can pass through the medium of the internet, why are you here, reaching out?



Because im trying to pick apart the sterotype of a crossdresser. Before i saw everybody as one big thing so im here to express and see how others express and learn a about myself and as well as you.

[Rianna Humble]

My spirtuality is about truth. About accepting life as it is. Not MY life but LIFE... as in ALL OF EXISTENCE

I'm sorry, I don't see that reflected in anything you have written so far. You reject our life experiences as being without value and harmful on some scale that you have invented. That is not accepting life or "all of existence".

It may be I who am at fault here, but to communicate, we need to find common language and I don't seem to be able to do that with you.

About the only thing that we seem able to agree is that if there are people who have successfully stopped needing to cross-dress, they do not come here to share the secret and thus support the people you claim are being harmed by us.

[johnboy23]

I am not two people. I am one. I do not fix myself up with make up and wigs, nor do I act very feminine. I do , however, dress feminine, but I am still a man in my man form. I like to think I am gender bending a little more so than crossdressing. I think people understand the term gender bending more than crossdressing.

[ruroken]

I'm sorry, I don't see that reflected in anything you have written so far. You reject our life experiences as being without value and harmful on some scale that you have invented. That is not accepting life or "all of existence".

It may be I who am at fault here, but to communicate, we need to find common language and I don't seem to be able to do that with you.

About the only thing that we seem able to agree is that if there are people who have successfully stopped needing to cross-dress, they do not come here to share the secret and thus support the people you claim are being harmed by us.

im sorry if you can't see that but i havent tried to communicate my "spirtuality"...thats just a word. And it means something different to everybody based on their life's experiences. samething with god and love....

and i did not reject and claim that your (our) life experiences are harmful in anyway or that they hold no value....in fact the opposite is true. I think crossing is very valuable in the growth of your "self"

I just jumped the gun on saying that the dogma of "becomming female in appearance is what everybody who has crossed should be doing" and "if your not then your running away from yourself"....could be harmful..... Mainly because some people might actually be running TO themselves by not crossing.... and its not always true that everybody who chooses not to dress is neccessarly running away from themselves....(i jumped the gun....i apologize again) but that is the problem i have with the crossdressing community..... which exists partly because of the insecurities that i harbor(ED) and partly because it actually exists.

AND YES! not everybody believes that here so please don't pick bones about this.

im just assuming here but i think talking to people face to face with a voice and body language is a better communication then mere words. Because people misinterpret words much easier (since its our voice reading these words) and im sorry that i came off as not accepting and negative in some way....BUT I ASSURE YOU.... I AM NOT....