Out at a Gay Bar? Not me!

[Rhonda Jean]

I didn't want to hijack Fastchanger's thread, but this is along the same lines.

Going out to gay bars is a recurrent theme on here. It seems that many girls who won't go anywhere else are ok with going to a gay bar. Even many who are comfortable out at mainstream places seem to default to gay bars when in unfamiliar territory.

I, on the other hand, am more likely to be found at places your dowdy neighbor lady would go than anywhere else. Part of it is I've never been a bar person in the first place. I've been to more (straight) bars since I started dating my current gf than I have in my entire life previous. No way I would go (dressed) to a bar by myself! And a gay bar, double no way! I'll except hotel bars (where I'm staying), but that's a little different.

I've been to only one gay bar, and that was for a support group meeting. One of only two meetings I've ever been to. Actually, on that particular night, even aside from the meeting, it would have been ok. We were about the only ones there. There was gay porn on the big screen and a couple of young guys making out in a booth. Not something I'm used to, prude that I am, but not scary. Still, if I'd been alone sitting at the bar I think I would have looked like I wanted to be picked up. Same with a straight bar, for that matter. But gay bars have that added "zing" of being defined by sex (OK, sexual orientation, but you get the point).

I think for a woman to sit alone at a straight bar makes it appear likely that she's open to the possibility of being picked up. I think that for a male dressed as a female (that's already upped the sexual ante) to go into a gay bar alone is multiplying that appearance.

There's hardly a shopping center, hair salon, nail salon, or restaurant that I'd hesitate about going in to. Yet I see on here all the time, girls who are relutant to go to those places who are quite comfortable in a gay bar. I can see it being a really good place to go as a group, but alone, no way! Probably just my overall prudish nature (at least on the outside :o), but it would scare the crap out of me! I'll be at Red Lobster, thank you!

[Emily Ann Brown]

Everyone to their opinion. I would guess that the girls going into a gay club don't think straight people will be watching.

It is a dangerous place to go. I have had several sexual advances...from lezzies.

Once I got my "landlegs" I prefer the malls and such.


Em

[JohnH]

I myself would not go to a "gay" bar under any circumstance. I also would not go to a straight bar dressed en femme unless if it was a Halloween party and I was going to do a Johnny Cash song with karaoke - imagine someone who passes as a woman singing "Rings of Fire" sounding like Johnny Cash!

I have been all over the place wearing skirts.

[Christy_M]

My (gay) neighbor mentioned on more than a few occasions that gay men are not typically attracted to CD/TS gurls. (I am not sure why this has come up so often and only now am I thinking I may have been caught.) They are into men just as straight women are into men. There is an element that would probably "chase" us (chubby chasers?) but that is not the norm in my opinion. I don't go alone and when I thought about going, I wish I had someone to go with me but there is a level of acceptance in those establishments that give me confidence that I can be somewhere and not be judged (too much) for the way I am dressed.

[StaceyJane]

I don't even go to gay bars. It's not really my kind of place.
As for safety going out. It's much more safe to go out in public during the daytime.

[AllieSF]

I have been to gay and lesbian bars and, except for one which is also a piano bar where I feel very comfortable, I have always been with a friend. As for being dangerous, I have not seen nor felt that problem in any of them. I also go out mainstream most of the time to restaurants, theaters for live plays, movies, museums, shopping and to bars. I understand not being a bar type person, and I was not either, except for certain ones where I have developed my own "Cheers" type of relationships with the bartenders and patrons. However, since dressing I have enjoyed the bar scene more and always have a lot of fun. For a lot of newbies, and it was similar for me when I started, the gay/lesbian bar scene does offer a place where at least in our newbie minds offers a safe ambiance for our outings, and from my experience that is a very true statement. Over time with more confidence going out and meeting the public our tastes change and so do the venues. I would not hesitate to recommend that someone who is just starting to go out try a gay/lesbian bar. Confidence building is important at that phase of coming out.

[Tammy V]

The first time I went to a bar dressed it was a gay bar, one that also has drag shows. The second time I went to a bar dressed was also the first time I went somewhere on my own dressed and it was to the same establishment. I have been back with friends a few times but quite frankly it gets a little boring. One thing, you are not likely to get hit on by men there, although sometimes "tranny chasers" come out for the drag show night.

[AKAMichelle]

I don't like going to gay bars for much the same reason. Now I will go to alternative clubs but they aren't the same, plus I wouldn't go alone to any bar. I just don't drink enough to have any interest in the bar scene. Most of the places that I go out dressed to are mainstream establishments. I find them to be much more my cup of tea.

[ronny0]

Have to agree with Rhonda, yet I can see that many might feel more accepted at a gay bay than a Hooters. Yes any bar alone is sort of an open invitation to people trying to pick you up. I don't think I am confident enough to go most anyplace alone yet... Maybe some day?

[DonnaT]

I've been to both gay and lesbian bars. The gay bar had a special night on the first Friday of each month for us.

I knew some others that went, so went to check it out. Never had a problem with any of the guys. Got to make new friends who weren't virtual (online) friends. A good time was usually had.

Not going every weekend or every month helped alleviate being bored, IMHO. Which could be said for any bar. However, many are bar flies and can enjoy going to a bar more often. It's not for everybody, that's for sure.

The gay bar was a place to go late at night into the wee hours of the morning, well after the malls, etc. are closed. So if your out, and feel like being out even longer than most establishments are open, a bar is a likely choice, is it not?

[t-girlxsophie]

I have to say one of the types of places i have felt the safest when out dressed has been gay bars.I dont know what ppl are expecting to see in such places.roman orgies or the like.Gay men just arent interested in us,and Tranny fanciers well they are nothing to worry about they are mildly amusing and pitiful characters

[Rhonda Jean]

The gay bar was a place to go late at night into the wee hours of the morning, well after the malls, etc. are closed. So if your out, and feel like being out even longer than most establishments are open, a bar is a likely choice, is it not?

Up until the past several months (with my gf), I've been flying solo. I'm pretty comfortable anywhere and everywhere in the daytime, but the later it gets, the more apprehensive I get. After the mall closes, I'll stop at Applebee's or some other restraunt/bar combo that's probably open 'till 11:00 or so. I'm more comfortable somewhere that drinking alcohol isn't the only thing to do. Certainly by 11:00, I'm done.

[sherri]

I was never a bar person either, and only started when I began dressing. At the time, I had no conscious interest in men, but I chose gay/lesbian bars and still do. Why? Because I am confident I won't be unwelcome or hassled there. That has proven to be true -- I've never had an unpleasant encounter in a gay bar. The fears expressed in this and other threads are largely baseless, and I'll tell you why:

The majority of gays and lesbians are not interested in you as a prospective sexual partner -- or even as a close friend -- given your gender preference and expression.
That said, no one is going to be hostile toward you, and some will be friendly, even reaching out to get acquainted.
In the event you do get hit on, so what? Take it as a compliment, flattery even, and communicate that when you inform your admirer, tactfully, that you're not interested. If he persists, restating your disinterest, a little more firmly this time, will end the matter. Handled right, it's no big deal. I've even gone on to become friends with thwarted suitors.
Here's a tip: Don't assume you won't like dancing, even if you're not a dancer. You'll probably love it if you'll just relax and go with it.

I think it would be fun to go to a straight club sometime, but I'm too chicken to go by myself. Why? Because, right or wrong, I'm not sure people there would be as benign.

Having said all that, bars do get boring after awhile, especially if you don't make some new friends, and even if you do. I luv to go so I can dance with my friends, but sometimes we go hang out at their home, have parties, etc., so that's fun, and it would have never happened had I been afraid to go to a gay bar.

[abigailf]

For me, dressing is not about where I go, but about being feminine. I like to look, feel and be girl. Going out dressed is just a bonus. I prefer going out with people that can hang with me when I am dressed. Where we go is not all that relevant, it is more about the people I am with.

When alone, I tend to do things like shop, go to the salon and do other chores that need to get done.

If I go to bars (gay or otherwise), it is usually with somebody, whether I am enfemme or not.

[Raven586]

I always go to my local gay club for Saturday night party's, but this year on haloween I am gioing to a straight bar.
I would say wish me luck, but i don't know if I need it : ))

[Fab Karen]

I think for a woman to sit alone at a straight bar makes it appear likely that she's open to the possibility of being picked up. I think that for a male dressed as a female (that's already upped the sexual ante) to go into a gay bar alone is multiplying that appearance.


First, I'll mention most gay bars don't show porn. Second, people go to bars to drink and/or socialize. Being alone is not an INVITATION to get hit on, whether you're female ( GG ), T-girl, male or T-guy. Third, gay guys aren't interested in us. We're not going to be hit on by gay guys looking femme.

[Rhonda Jean]

My whole deal is I'm deathly afraid of being hit on, or even flirted with. It's a rarity in my little world. The scariest happend in broad daylight in rather busy downtown plaza, so I know it's not entirely avoidable, regardless of how careful you are. It's just not going to happen much in the women's section of Dillard's. Gay, straight, I'm not sure it matters. It all scares me. I feel vulnerable to being preyed upon. I know that's just part of being out in the world.

If I was ever actually at great risk of becoming a victim, it may have been at an El Chico, of all places. It was one of those "after the malls close" deals. I ordered a meal and a drink. Before the meal even got there I was feeling sick. Very drunk (not even through one drink) and very sick. I went to the restroom, having to take off my heels after only a few steps because I felt like I couldn't keep my balance. Made it to the restroom and got really sick. I felt a little better after 10 or 15 minutes. I still felt very drunk. I returned to my seat and asked for my check, paid immediately, and hoped to get out of there before I got sick again. A few people expressed concern, male and female. A couple of them offered me a ride to my hotel. I ended up getting a cab, but I don't remember if it was at my insistence.

At the time I figured it was food poisoning, even though I'd only had salsa. Years later I described this to someone who thought it might have been a date rape drug. I don't think anybody was trying to carry me out of there, so I doubt that rape was the motive. I do think it's possible that someone slipped something in my drink just out of meanness.

Bad enough I was sick, but it was also embarrassing, and the cab ride to my hotel and back the next morning wasn't cheap. If it was intentional, it could have been worse. I still think I just got sick, whether it was food poisoning or a virus, but it makes you think. The dangers of being a loner.

[sherri]

My whole deal is I'm deathly afraid of being hit on, or even flirted with. It's a rarity in my little world. The scariest happend in broad daylight in rather busy downtown plaza, so I know it's not entirely avoidable, regardless of how careful you are. It's just not going to happen much in the women's section of Dillard's. Gay, straight, I'm not sure it matters. It all scares me. I feel vulnerable to being preyed upon. I know that's just part of being out in the world.

If I was ever actually at great risk of becoming a victim, it may have been at an El Chico, of all places. It was one of those "after the malls close" deals. I ordered a meal and a drink. Before the meal even got there I was feeling sick. Very drunk (not even through one drink) and very sick. I went to the restroom, having to take off my heels after only a few steps because I felt like I couldn't keep my balance. Made it to the restroom and got really sick. I felt a little better after 10 or 15 minutes. I still felt very drunk. I returned to my seat and asked for my check, paid immediately, and hoped to get out of there before I got sick again. A few people expressed concern, male and female. A couple of them offered me a ride to my hotel. I ended up getting a cab, but I don't remember if it was at my insistence.

At the time I figured it was food poisoning, even though I'd only had salsa. Years later I described this to someone who thought it might have been a date rape drug. I don't think anybody was trying to carry me out of there, so I doubt that rape was the motive. I do think it's possible that someone slipped something in my drink just out of meanness.

Bad enough I was sick, but it was also embarrassing, and the cab ride to my hotel and back the next morning wasn't cheap. If it was intentional, it could have been worse. I still think I just got sick, whether it was food poisoning or a virus, but it makes you think. The dangers of being a loner.

What a terrible experience! Honestly, it does sound more like a drug than food poisoning to me too.

But setting that aside for a moment, what is it about being flirted with that scares you so much? I'm not trying to say your fear is right or wrong, that's irrelevant, but I don't understand the nature of your fear. Sure, we all have to be careful out there, just like all women, but are you afraid of men in general? There's nothing to be afraid of in a man buying you a drink and telling you how pretty you are. It's not like he's gonna try to rape you right there in the bar, even if he was so inclined. In a decade's worth of clubbing, I've never met a guy I couldn't handle with a few kind but firm words.

Whether or not you wish to visit a club, don't let fear be the reason. It's the same ol' world you go out into every day.

Hmmm ...

On second thought, run back inside, lock the door and hide under your bed! :D

[AllieSF]

What you have described is a serious situation if it was done purposely, and I understand your fear. But it does seem unlikely that someone at Chico's was trying to drug you if the drink came directly to you from the server. Since you do enjoy going out, maybe finding a local friend, GG, guy or TG to go with you would help you overcome your fears and build your confidence. I think what happened to you was a very rare occurrence and hopefully you can get over it. Being hit on in male or female mode does not have to be a big thing as others have stated. Is your fear based on needing to respond in a male voice, not knowing how to respond, or something else? I wish you the best.

[Rhonda Jean]

I'm gonna figure I just got sick. Doesn't seem like a likely drugged drink thing. Just makes you a little leary when out alone.

Why am I afraid? I'm not sure if it's the "OMG, he thinks I'm a woman" or the "OMG, he knows I'm not a woman!"

Either way, it's just easier to stay away from places where I feel like I'm asking for it.

[NathalieX66]

The thing about gay bars is that guys think that you're there for them. I've been to a couple of places en femme, and had my share of offered drinks and compliments......and everything else. Sometimes I feel like it's like walking into a wolf's den when you're the prey. But I also look at it this way: women also get the same exact treatment from guys , so in a way I find the experience not much different. That's a very feminine feeling, and in my head I'm thinking "yeah!! I did it". However, this girl here is a bit of a lipstick lesbian. All I want is to do is just show up in a place, and just be me....particularly amongst friends to laugh with.

[skirt_guy]

OK, great. Gay bars are in for some and not for others. So where are the safest places to go during day and night???? It's obvious from reading above that there are distinct opinions about both day and night so spill your thoughts ......

[Shananigans]

I love the local gay bars, but they can definitely be a place for sketchballs to congregate. One bar is waaaay more sketchy than the other. I think you hit it on the head that a MTF CD at the gay bar seems like they Want to be picked up.

This mentality annoys me, being a GG. Sometimes I just want to go to the bar and have a drink and be left alone. Just because I am alone doesn't mean I want to be hit on.

I guess CDs get the same sketchiness at the gay bar.

Ryan and I have discussed him going to the gay bar dressed and it's just not feasible if he wants to remain in the closet as a CD in his city.

Some of the gay men we know have big ol' blabber mouths and like to start some drama...so, I can see it getting back on campus pretty fast and being hard on him since he is very private about his CDing.

Would I recommend him going to the gay bar alone? Heck no. There are weird people sketching around there. If he was with me or a group of other CDs...I wouldn't worry as much.

But, being alone and people being the way that they are in his city...I would worry myself to death if he went alone.

[dilane]

I started out going to gay and Lesbian bars. I prefer Lesbian to gay bars, because I enjoy chatting with women.

But now I frequent a few straight bars, and know the folks there, and have a good time. People eventually know the score, and I don't lead men on. Nevertheless, I do get bought drinks :) One friend, the long time BF of a bartender often greets me with "Hi Diane, you sexy little b***h!"

I like the idea of being out of the ghetto. In LA, gay and lesbian folks go everywhere, why shouldn't I?

Most (but not all) of the straight places I go to I first went with friends, and then I became a regular, so it's comfortable. I get to know the management and the staff (I'm chatty). Going to a new straight club or bar alone is always a bit scary for me, and something I don't do that often.

There are Tran-fans everywhere, in my experience. And women who are definitely curious, too.

During the week (I'm out 1-2 days during the week if not too busy), I leave before 9pm. Friday/Saturday, it's another story :)

[Loni]

no bars for this girl, i am way to cheep to pay the prices they want at a bar. pluse i tend to not drink very much.
i would rather get laughed at on the street during the day...and i do not being laughed at. but i do leave some smiling.

[Ria]

Hi Rhonda,
This is great info... I'll give you a report on my gay bar experience if I have the guts to go through with it.

[elle]

i can understand how some of us might feel safer at a gay bar.

[TiffanyTgirl]

Everyone has their reasons for going where they go. If people are happy gong to a gay bar, they may feel they are less noticable and blend better. Hence more acceptance. We all look for places to be comfortable. Some are the mall, some gay bars, some the closet. Wherever, just enjoy!

[Rhonda Jean]

I'm not saying there's a right place and a wrong place, and I get the "acceptance of alternative lifestyles" thing. It just strikes me that the first place that many go out is to a gay bar, then there's me who's been doing this for a long time, and I don't have the nerve. Most of it is that it's unfamiliar. There have been times that I wanted to go a drag show or a pageant, even starting to walk up to the door, and I just chickend out. Then you have others that go to exactly those events as a very first outing. Even that I can understand better than someone who just walks in unescorted on an ordinary night. Some that do that would be afraid to do what I do, which I see as completely benign.

I don't remember ever getting dressed up just to stay home, yet I completely understand that concept. If I'm getting dressed, I'm going somewhere, even if it's just to Walmart. I see the things I do and the places I go as totally non-threatening. I'm not at all bold or brave. I just don't even know how it'd be possible to have a really bad experience getting your hair done, or your nails, or shopping for clothes. I don't understand the fear of shopping for bras or panties, or going through the checkout with them. I do that with no more thought and anxiety than shopping for grocery's. Undoubtedly some who go to a bar as their first outing ordered their panties online. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with it. It's equally possible that there's something wrong with what I do. It's just a striking difference, to me anyway. I admit it, I'm a chicken! The most fearful thing at a hair salon is that they'll cut to much or screw up the color. At a bar, well... not sure I have a top that'll cover up that yellow stripe down my back!

[dilane]

There have been times that I wanted to go a drag show or a pageant, even starting to walk up to the door, and I just chickend out ..... At a bar, well... not sure I have a top that'll cover up that yellow stripe down my back!

Rhonda, girl up! You are so lucky to have a femme facial structure, long hair, and decent height. You've got it, now you just need to own it. Ok, I'm being a bit flip, but it does get easier every time. There's always a little trepidation going to a new place, but there's an exhilaration that comes from conquering fear.

[EllieOPKS]

I just always assumed that everybody that CD's would gravitate to gay bars. Simply from a comfort level of being accepted. I only go to bars on occasions such as watching a football game. When I am out of town, if I go to a bar it is usually the most convenient place to get to that gets my money. Something about hotel bars never appealed to me.

[PrettyFlowingGown]

I go to a gay bar once a month cause its a safe and secure inviroment. i can kick up my heels, dance, meet other tv's/cd's/GG's, etc. I get a occasional man come up to me and make a sexual advance now and again, but it does'nt bother me. i just like to go out as a lady.....

[juno]

Why does it bother some CDs that a man or lesbian might find them attractive when dressed? Isn't that a good thing, even if you are not interested? I would take it as a compliment. As for a gay bar being a good place to go, it probably depends a lot on which bar it is. I would be perfectly willing to go to a gay bar in drab, and not be bothered by the possibility of gay men finding me attractive.

[LynnInDenver]

I only go occasionally to see drag shows... I have many more fun places I can go anyway that don't involve hanging around people looking to slug back expensive alcohol all night. :)

[Genivieve]

I witnessed an awful incident at a gay bar. I met someone who I thought was a girl and it turned out to be a transsexual.
She so pretty and convinvincing...her mannerisms, voice, causal dress everything was so spot on female.
She did not hide the fact at all that she was actually male though. Throughout the night the other people in the bar constantly harassed her and did not make her feel welcome. I found this to be strange since this place was generally friendly and frequently featured drag performers.

[NathalieX66]

I witnessed an awful incident at a gay bar. I met someone who I thought was a girl and it turned out to be a transsexual.
She so pretty and convinvincing...her mannerisms, voice, causal dress everything was so spot on female.
She did not hide the fact at all that she was actually male though. Throughout the night the other people in the bar constantly harassed her and did not make her feel welcome. I found this to be strange since this place was generally friendly and frequently featured drag performers.

Must've been the alcohol talking. :straightface:

[msginaadoll]

I have gone to three different Gay/Lesbian bars. My usual hangout is the Rainbow Room in Detroit. It plain and simple is just a casual place where I can hang out and be accepted. Gay/Lesbian/Straight- everyone is treated with respect. Ive met some wonderful folks there and its a safe environment, where Im not judged. Gigis is similar, its a great bplace to hang with other Cds. The only time I went to Menjos- I was also welcomed warmly. Occasionally I am hit on yes, but I can deal with that so not a problem. And being hit on is sure better than being hit at.
I do also get out with the general public to restaurants, mal museum, bookstores, etc. I have not been to a bar yet that was considered mainstream except in Ferndale, which is a more friendly place to alternative lifestyles.

[legz31]

I guess I did not realize gay bars were sooo scary dungeons.

INMHO there are shady places and there are nice places. This is true for stores, alleys, restaurants, and yes bars. I have never been to a gay bar, but I know some gay PEOPLE, and I cannot imagine a gay bar is any more dangeorous for a CD than any other place. In fact it if has a bouncer at the door and nice open minded bar staff, I bet you a gay bar is a lot safer than the grocery store parking lot.

[Jay Cee]

I was actually going to go to one tonight, figuring it was a reasonably safe bet. And the local gay bar is the place where they have our CD meetings. I'm hoping they don't have porn of any kind playing there.

[NathalieX66]

My crew of girls was at a lgbt establishment this evening for a halloween bash.
I Got along great with the guys, but they really didn't bother me much.
I think gay guys are focused on guys, not men trying to pass as women. The trans group didn't seem too connected with the guy/guy action on the dancefloor......seemed like two different and separate worlds. That's my observation for this particular evening.

[Christy_M]

I had my first experience out dressed at a LBGT bar in the Northwest. It was awesome. The people were great. The guys didn't give me a seond look. I had a lot of Lesbian woman talking to me. I danced with a couple of them. everyone else was doing their own thing. The group of ladies I was with were fantastic and very welcoming. It was one fo the best experiences I have had and certainly the best experience I have had en femme. I highly recommend it for anyone who is scared of where to go when you are out. If you can't wander the malls or other mainstream establishments due to fear, the gay bar is the place to go to spread your wings.

[Cindia]

Others have said it, most gay men are attracted to men that look like men, not men that look like women. I'd rather go to a gay bar when dressed, not because I will or won't get hit on, but because I feel I wont get harassed. I do go to those that I know have had drag shows or gurls nights or what ever though.

[Byanca]

If you are into women, it makes sense to go to the gay bar, personally I'm sort of meh to lesbian sex. Most guys won't hit on you. So it's relaxing, if only looking to go out. I was there on Friday. And a pretty woman(around 25) chatted me up and gave me her phonenumber and asked me to keep in touch. Repeatedly actually. I have not decided what to do. But I am tempted.

[dayna_nj]

I dont go to many gay bars, but ive been to some. Im always aware of how "normal" people look at what I do, so you wont find me at a regular restaurant or wherever "normal" people go. I know almost all of them look at me like im an idiot, and im very self conscious about that. Im not comfortable with how people view me as a CD, I dont know why I care but I do.

At a gay bar, people just look at you like you're normal to them, not like someone who is a freak. So I just feel like I fit in more there, even though I still dont go to them often. I pretty much just dress to meet men, if Im not meeting someone I dont have a huge desire to do it.

[flatlander_48]

If you are into women, it makes sense to go to the gay bar, personally I'm sort of meh to lesbian sex. Most guys won't hit on you. So it's relaxing, if only looking to go out. I was there on Friday. And a pretty woman(around 25) chatted me up and gave me her phonenumber and asked me to keep in touch. Repeatedly actually. I have not decided what to do. But I am tempted.

I'm curious. Assuming your life situation would allow it, what is keeping you from responding to this potential relationship/friendship?

[Sherry Ann Evans]

I was never a bar person either, and only started when I began dressing. At the time, I had no conscious interest in men, but I chose gay/lesbian bars and still do. Why? Because I am confident I won't be unwelcome or hassled there. That has proven to be true -- I've never had an unpleasant encounter in a gay bar. The fears expressed in this and other threads are largely baseless, and I'll tell you why:

The majority of gays and lesbians are not interested in you as a prospective sexual partner -- or even as a close friend -- given your gender preference and expression.
That said, no one is going to be hostile toward you, and some will be friendly, even reaching out to get acquainted.
In the event you do get hit on, so what? Take it as a compliment, flattery even, and communicate that when you inform your admirer, tactfully, that you're not interested. If he persists, restating your disinterest, a little more firmly this time, will end the matter. Handled right, it's no big deal. I've even gone on to become friends with thwarted suitors.
Here's a tip: Don't assume you won't like dancing, even if you're not a dancer. You'll probably love it if you'll just relax and go with it.

I think it would be fun to go to a straight club sometime, but I'm too chicken to go by myself. Why? Because, right or wrong, I'm not sure people there would be as benign.

Having said all that, bars do get boring after awhile, especially if you don't make some new friends, and even if you do. I luv to go so I can dance with my friends, but sometimes we go hang out at their home, have parties, etc., so that's fun, and it would have never happened had I been afraid to go to a gay bar.

I agree with you 100%.

In my opinion, some of the CDs who try to justify avoiding gay bars -- when in fact gay bars are GREAT places for us to go, have fun, and feel safe -- are really just trying to mask their homophobia (or their deep-down homosexuality.) That's not an insult, because there is nothing wrong with being bi or gay. Although I think it's pretty funny, or pitiful depending on how you look at it, to see a grown man dressed fully in femme while denouncing "those" people .... some CDs need to man up to the fact that truly straight men don't wear panties and nail polish. But even * if * some CDs really are straight, who are THEY to discriminate against gays? It baffles the mind .... at least of we who use our minds.

[Rhonda Jean]

I'm not discriminating at all! I know full well I live in a glass house. It's just unfamiliar territory. My gf has several gay friends, and I suspect I'll have opportunities to find out what gay bars are like.

It probably bears mentioning that any time my sexuality has ever come come up with someone who knows me enfemme, they are very surprised to find out I'm not gay. Based on my experience, I'd say that nearly 100% of people outside the community think crossdressers are gay. I guess I've been thought to be gay often enough that I'm rather comfortable with it. It doesn't matter. It would be ridiculous to be homophobic when so often I'm thought to be gay.

[Sherry Ann Evans]

I'm not discriminating at all! I know full well I live in a glass house. It's just unfamiliar territory.

Well, saying "it's just unfamiliar" is a whole lot less vociferous than your original statement.


I've been to only one gay bar

But you're judging all of them. And yet you object to people who judge all CDs.


if I'd been alone sitting at the bar I think I would have looked like I wanted to be picked up.

It's that kind of statement that hints at homophobia to me. Presumably when you and I and all CDs -- or for that matter, all PEOPLE -- go out for the night, we want to look our best or at least presentable, right? So why should we be so worried about looking like we want to be picked up? If you think you're dressed that provacatively, then perhaps the problem isn't the other clientele.


for a male dressed as a female (that's already upped the sexual ante) to go into a gay bar alone is multiplying that appearance.

Maybe I'm being dense, but I just don't see the problem. You're insisting that you'll never go to the very place where you'll be most accepted, all because (in your mind) someone might like you. However if a guy flirts with you at a straight bar, and then realizes you're not entirely a woman, your problem could be much worse, from being outed, to being humiliated, to even violence in some cases.

Anyway -- we should all go wherever we're most comfortable. I just strongly object to anyone in a crossdressers community making such an anti-gay post. Like it or not, we're a sexual minority, and we all need to stick together.

[Christy_M]

It probably bears mentioning that any time my sexuality has ever come come up with someone who knows me enfemme, they are very surprised to find out I'm not gay. Based on my experience, I'd say that nearly 100% of people outside the community think crossdressers are gay. It would be ridiculous to be homophobic when so often I'm thought to be gay.

I'm not sure about the 100% statistic but there was a lesbian at the bar Friday night that asked me who I would want to go home with from the bar (kinda playing "if you could pick anyone here, who would it be" game) and when I spotted the hottest gg in the place she was surprised. I am guessing that she didn't feel that way about all of us that were there that night but there must have been something about my presentation that suggested I was looking for either a guy or another cd/tg person...go figure.

[Nicki S]

I went out to a gay bar last weekend and had a great time. The lady working the door, collecting a cover charge, greeted me as usual and told me to have a good time. While I was there a big guy, very gay, sat next to me and was talking up a storm. I was friendly, but made it known that I was NOT interested. Then a beautiful lesbian couple sat down on the other side of me. We struck up conservation which was quite nice. The big guy kept nosing in and bothering the three of us. The bouncer came over and asked if he was bothering me. I just mentioned that he doesn't keep quiet. He pulled him aside and I over heard the bouncer say to leave the "lady" alone. One more complaint and he was out! I later talked with another man who watched the whole scene and he mentioned that this big guy can be a real pain. So my point is that the management looks out for us ladies and enjoy the color of our money.

[flatlander_48]

I went out to a gay bar last weekend and had a great time. The lady working the door, collecting a cover charge, greeted me as usual and told me to have a good time. While I was there a big guy, very gay, sat next to me and was talking up a storm. I was friendly, but made it known that I was NOT interested. Then a beautiful lesbian couple sat down on the other side of me. We struck up conservation which was quite nice. The big guy kept nosing in and bothering the three of us. The bouncer came over and asked if he was bothering me. I just mentioned that he doesn't keep quiet. He pulled him aside and I over heard the bouncer say to leave the "lady" alone. One more complaint and he was out! I later talked with another man who watched the whole scene and he mentioned that this big guy can be a real pain. So my point is that the management looks out for us ladies and enjoy the color of our money.

When you think about it, who would be more attuned to harassment?

[latinacdtx26]

i have been to several gay bars and never had a problem....u may get hit on sure....but its not so bad....its kind of complimenting actually well thats the way i take it....one of the factors that make it bad is the overall identity of crossdressers, tvs...etc.....there is a large percentage that actually do go to these places to meet men to hook up with or whatever....so unfortunately for the few there are that arent looking for that.....it makes it a pain to deal with. but even still a slight no thanks usually doesnt bother...and i usually make sure im with atleast one other person....

even still sometimes drama cant be avoided....6 months ago i went to a drag show....they were all very pretty well there was a obviously straight drunk girl....running around being obnoxious...made it clear yelling to everyone shes not gay....well for some reason she ends up rushing the girl performing...tackling her....taking off her wig......felt really bad for her...they broke it up.....kicked the girl out.....but just goes to show you sometimes..

[Alice Torn]

I dont' think the poster was putting down gays. She seemes to me, to just be honest, that shew is supershy. I can relate. I am scared to go to any type of bar, gay, or straight. I have an aversion to alcoholism, and drunkenness, as I come from an alcoholic family. There is only one gay bar in this region, and I walked past it in drab, during the daytime, and even called it up and asked if cd's were welcome. It is in a bad part of town, but, I hope to go dressed some time, in a modest , but attractive outfit. Being six foot eint and a half in low heels, makes me awfully self conscious, and I had a tramatic childhood, and young manhood. We just have to turn our fear, into guts, like in so many other things in life.

[girl_in_pantyhose]

I wish I had the guts to go to a straight bar. Then again, I do not like bars at all. If I go, I go for my friends and sometimes the entertainment.

[ReineD]

I think for a woman to sit alone at a straight bar makes it appear likely that she's open to the possibility of being picked up.

I'm so happy to read this! I agree with you! I also think that most men would see even two women sitting in a bar (if they are dressed to impress) as looking to meet guys, especially if they are there on traditional date nights, which are Friday and Saturday evenings. My SO and I have had disagreements about this. :D But I digress. :)




I think that for a male dressed as a female (that's already upped the sexual ante) to go into a gay bar alone is multiplying that appearance.

I think it depends. Regulars at gay bars are well familiar with the newbie CDs who use the place just as an outlet for an outing. My SO went to our local gay bar alone for a long time, before she felt comfortable enough going out in the mainstream. She's even gone a few times in the last year alone. I always thought she was safe there, since most people would have understood her purpose? But maybe not. lol. Maybe she was hit on more than she cared to tell me. :)

At any rate, our local gay bar is filled mostly with 20 somethings, and honestly I'd enjoy it a lot more if it had more age diversity.

[DianeDeBris]

So the tally on this thread so far is roughly this: some of us feel comfortable being out and about in the wide world, which terrifies others of us; and some of us feel comfortable being in a gay bar, while that idea strikes fear into the hearts of others of us. Some of us strike a balance somewhere in the middle. Very rarely, one of us has seen another person behave impolitely, and at least one drunk GG acted out and hassled someone else. Sounds about the right proportions to me! De gustibus non est disputandum. Isn't it wonderful that this world is large enough and varied enough that each of us, with a bit of effort, can find places and ways to enjoy ourselves?! LBNL, I sincerely feel it's also wonderful that the tone of this thread has remained one of sharing and of doing our best to understand one another's viewpoint -- well done, my lovely sisters!

[Byanca]

I'm curious. Assuming your life situation would allow it, what is keeping you from responding to this potential relationship/friendship?
I dunno. I'm shy. And she asked if I lived alone, several times, and found that to be weird, and very straight forward. So a bit unsure about her motives. I presume a lesbian, when she was at a gay bar and asked this way. I'm not sure how into this I am. I go there only to hang out. Not really to make connections.

If it's sexually motivated it's imo not ideal basis for friendship.

I like being approached, so it was all good, very nice.

Two weeks ago, I fooled around with a guy in there, just for fun. Then he put his hands under my dress. And said ...Wtf-you are a dude, you are lucky it's me, Or I would have beaten you up". I was very shocked, and told the guards I was being threatened with violence. They told me to tell them if it happened again and they would deal with it. That's why I didn't go for a few weeks. I find this strange, as I don't consider myself all that passable, and a gay pub to boot. So there should not be an issue either way imo. I hate being threatened with 'beating up when I just want to have fun. :sad:

But that was the only time it was bad, mostly it's fine. Like this lesbian. That was cool. Real pretty, feminine, long hair, curvaceous. Much more then me. I'm kinda curios, what she wants. It would be awesome if it was only to hang out. But kinda doubt it. I don't know any lesbians, so not quite sure how that works out.

[Shananigans]

I guess I did not realize gay bars were sooo scary dungeons.

INMHO there are shady places and there are nice places. This is true for stores, alleys, restaurants, and yes bars. I have never been to a gay bar, but I know a lot of gay PEOPLE, and I cannot imagine a gay bar is any more dangeorous for a CD than any other place. In fact it if has a bouncer at the door and nice open minded bar staff, I bet you a gay bar is a lot safer than the grocery store parking lot.

It depends on where you live. Birmingham tends to be a pretty rough city...but, I love it so much.

Gay people aren't sketchy. But, people at BARS can be sketchy. It's just when alcohol is involved...people are sometimes a bit weirder than normal.

[flatlander_48]

even still sometimes drama cant be avoided....6 months ago i went to a drag show....they were all very pretty well there was a obviously straight drunk girl....running around being obnoxious...made it clear yelling to everyone shes not gay....well for some reason she ends up rushing the girl performing...tackling her....taking off her wig......felt really bad for her...they broke it up.....kicked the girl out.....but just goes to show you sometimes..

Methinks she doth protesteth too much...

[flatlander_48]

But that was the only time it was bad, mostly it's fine. Like this lesbian. That was cool. Real pretty, feminine, long hair, curvaceous. Much more then me. I'm kinda curios, what she wants. It would be awesome if it was only to hang out. But kinda doubt it. I don't know any lesbians, so not quite sure how that works out.

There is always the possibility that she is bisexual to some degree. You know, if she is so direct, it's OK for you to be direct also. And it may just clear the air...

[tamarav]

For those that have a little homophobia, I suppose going to a gay bar doesn't feel right. For me, it is considered a safe place and I generally find some great people to talk with. who knows, you might find someone you know..

[Sejd]

I go to a gay bar sometimes. Actually, that's the only bar I ever go to and I love chatting with the guys who are just the sweetest. I sometime go with a gay friend of mine ( to feel safe of course). I like that they are there because they are different, and so am I :0)

[Olivia2]

Just like straight bars, there are many different gay bars. I've been to a few and the dynamics from one to another can be completely different, including the acceptance level toward those who are "outsiders" whether women, men, TG's, etc. Some are more open to different demographics on different theme nights of the week. Some I wouldn't ever be comfortable going into again, and others would be no problem. Best to get some feedback from others who've been out about which bars are TG friendly.

[flatlander_48]

For those that have a little homophobia, I suppose going to a gay bar doesn't feel right. For me, it is considered a safe place and I generally find some great people to talk with. who knows, you might find someone you know..

Amen to that!

[Sherry Ann Evans]

a big guy, very gay, sat next to me and was talking up a storm. I was friendly, but made it known that I was NOT interested.

If he was only being friendly, then why did YOU go out of your way to say you're not interested in anything sexual?

[Sherry Ann Evans]

For those that have a little homophobia, I suppose going to a gay bar doesn't feel right.

Maybe I'm taking this thread too far off-topic, but I just don't understand how any CD can possess homophobia. Even if they do, it's such blatant hypocricy .... "I like to wear makeup and frilly clothes and pretty shoes, but I won't be caught dead around GAY people!"

:brolleyes: :wall:

[Rhonda Jean]

Maybe I'm taking this thread too far off-topic, but I just don't understand how any CD can possess homophobia. Even if they do, it's such blatant hypocricy .... "I like to wear makeup and frilly clothes and pretty shoes, but I won't be caught dead around GAY people!"

:brolleyes: :wall:

That's not the way I meant it, although in hindsight I see how the title made it sound that way. I appologize, and I agree with what you said. What I was pointing out was that many choose a gay bar for their first outings, and I just couldn't go there, even now. It's not gay people I'm afraid of, it's the venue, and setting myself up as (what I percieve to be) a target. I could have said the same thing about a straight bar, but not as many first timers choose straight bars for their first outings.

I agree that given the way I dress, anyone who knows I'm not a girl would probably think I'm the gayest of the gay. I completely understand that, and for anyone who just sees me out and about I doesn't bother me in the least. I'm not at all offended by being thought of as gay. It doesn't matter. My aprehention is about the venue, not about the sexual orientation. I'm sorry I made it sound that way.

[Sherry Ann Evans]

Hmmm .... okay I forgive you. :)

[flatlander_48]

Maybe I'm taking this thread too far off-topic, but I just don't understand how any CD can possess homophobia. Even if they do, it's such blatant hypocricy .... "I like to wear makeup and frilly clothes and pretty shoes, but I won't be caught dead around GAY people!"

Sadly, that is the reality for some people. Remember some years back there was a rash of outing some political figures? The people who outed them said that they would have left them alone (ie, left them in the closet) if they had not been very vocal about espousing anti-gay views. Prejudice is just not rational...

[Miss Misery]

I haven't gone out anywhere en femme (yet) but I did do the straight bar scene enough to know that those places can be dangerous in that you have alcohol (and other substances) clouding peoples judgement. I've seen plenty of conflicts and fights over what amounts to nothing but the alcohol cuts the inhibition and some feel free to act on a perceived injustice - could be a look they think they've gotten or a quarter for a pool game they think they've been cheated out of. I truly would worry about being en femme someplace like that. You just don't know who happens to be there that particular night and how my appearance might trigger some negative attention. While I think I can hold my own in this situation, I don't want to be involved in a bar fight and the law because of my dressing. That's why I think a gay bar might be more preferable, for me at least.