Log in

View Full Version : Anonymity and Prevalence



Kathryn Martin
10-31-2010, 10:28 AM
Anonymity is important to any transitioning transsexual and it comes in three steps. Firstly we live a stealthy life until we reach the ability to acknowledge ourselves. Secondly, we must protect our ability to transition to reach a point where we can socially step out. Finally we need to change our environment to be female after transition without continuous references to our gender past. We are dependent on the good will of our social environment to not out us, especially not for "pay back" purposes or kicks and giggles. This is difficult because for some reason we are classified as juicy gossip.

That is particularly galling, considering, that we are much more prevalent than society wants to admit. While older studies suggested that 1 in 30,000 males are intensely gender dysphoric (i.e. transsexuals seeking sex reassignment surgery, SRS) this number was generated by psychiatric definition niceties, so that more recent studies suggest that the number is too low by a factor of 10. The current estimates based on empirical data suggest that 1:2500 transsexuals seek SRS and 1:500 male or female members of the general population experience some form of gender dysphoria, as transgendered persons, a spectrum including crossdressers to fully transitioned transsexuals. Translated to the Canadian context this is 66,622 transgendered people and 13,322 transitioned transsexuals.[See F. Olyslager and L. Conway "On theCalculation of the Prevalence of Transsexualism".] Forcing this subgroup of our society into the underground, especially where youth are concerned has contributed to extremely high suicide rates (close to 50%) in young transsexuals, and very high rates among all of us (approximately 27%). In my province of Nova Scotia we have 376 post op transsexuals and 1880 transgendered persons according to this study. That constitutes 0.2% of the population.



Since we have chewed on this on our own up to now, it is our job to make sure that our societal environment takes a bite out of reality.

Melody Moore
10-31-2010, 10:37 AM
Nice post Kathryn

Those figures sound a lot more realistic because its a well known fact that about 1 in every 2000 births are intersexed.

And I have said for a long time now, its time the transgendered community all united and really
stood up & are counted - especially if you want better gender services & anti-discrimination laws.

Louise C
10-31-2010, 11:28 AM
That would be good, but i'm not sure all the stealth transpeople out there would want to do that.

CharleneT
10-31-2010, 01:36 PM
I have no clue which numbers are correct. Going by my town, 1 in 30,000 isn't even close ;-) But I live in a town that draws people of different stripes. I think that until it is a socially accepted role (TG), it will be impossible to find out how many are out there. SOoooooo many people hide. I sure did, very effectively for many years.

Yes we should unit and stand up, but the potential ill affects are so great you can't expect most to do so. The risk out weighs the possible gains. Sure, there is a horse and cart argument here, if you don't stand up the day of acceptance will never come. I agree ... but it is also true that the Pioneers are the ones with the arrows in their backs . . .

Kathryn Martin
10-31-2010, 02:32 PM
I agree ... but it is also true that the Pioneers are the ones with the arrows in their backs . . .

There is really no way to find out but try. We live in this fear of whatever consequences might result from our dilemma. Which drives most of us to live in stealth and fear. I am not socially transitioning until I have completed my "program" to be presentable. In the meantime in no mistaken terms there is much I can do to support the cause. There are really three layers of conduct which we can adopt without fear of the consequences you mention.

Firstly, I have never and will not begin now to let people get away with disparaging, or incorrect commentary about us.

Secondly, in my profession I have the ability to help and support transgendered people in a number of ways professionally and in developing information that would be relevant to them in the Province I live.

Thirdly, I have joined Pflag (Parents for lesbian and gay children), a Canadian organization that that provides help and support for Parents and family members of gay, lesbian and transgendered folks. I am in the process of becoming a member of the Rainbow coalition in Nova Scotia, again an organization supporting the LGBT community. This will entail, among other things providing information and training for a variety of service providers.

And finally I will socially come out. Since the legal community is relatively small in a Province of 930,000 population, I will not escape my transition being somewhat public. Since I am involved in governance of my profession and hold several fairly exposed position locally, it is inevitable that after my transition I will remain know as the guy who became a girl. I am also not easily overlooked because I overlook everyone (6'4").

You raise however a very problematic issue. It seems inherent in our dilemma that we tend to turn our backs on our own for fear of the repercussions that we might suffer. That is shameful, and I will rather suffer consequences than leave one of our own in the dust to protect myself.

Melody Moore
10-31-2010, 03:52 PM
Going by my town, 1 in 30,000 isn't even close
Charlene... the numbers would be there, but the problem is many still hide in the closet and suffer.

And as for the risk out weighs the possible gains? You never know UNLESS you try and in today's society, you will be very surprised.

I've lived in fear and been paranoid my whole damn life but then to come out and find that my fears were very unfounded.

Australia has some of the best Anti-discrimination laws and Gender Services in the world
and believe me, we tend to be a redneck based society but attitudes are certainly changing
and that only happened by standing up for yourself and getting out and talking to people.

CharleneT
10-31-2010, 04:54 PM
There is really no way to find out but try. We live in this fear of whatever consequences might result from our dilemma. Which drives most of us to live in stealth and fear. I am not socially transitioning until I have completed my "program" to be presentable. In the meantime in no mistaken terms there is much I can do to support the cause. There are really three layers of conduct which we can adopt without fear of the consequences you mention.

Firstly, I have never and will not begin now to let people get away with disparaging, or incorrect commentary about us.

Secondly, in my profession I have the ability to help and support transgendered people in a number of ways professionally and in developing information that would be relevant to them in the Province I live.

Thirdly, I have joined Pflag (Parents for lesbian and gay children), a Canadian organization that that provides help and support for Parents and family members of gay, lesbian and transgendered folks. I am in the process of becoming a member of the Rainbow coalition in Nova Scotia, again an organization supporting the LGBT community. This will entail, among other things providing information and training for a variety of service providers.

And finally I will socially come out. Since the legal community is relatively small in a Province of 930,000 population, I will not escape my transition being somewhat public. Since I am involved in governance of my profession and hold several fairly exposed position locally, it is inevitable that after my transition I will remain know as the guy who became a girl. I am also not easily overlooked because I overlook everyone (6'4").

You raise however a very problematic issue. It seems inherent in our dilemma that we tend to turn our backs on our own for fear of the repercussions that we might suffer. That is shameful, and I will rather suffer consequences than leave one of our own in the dust to protect myself.


Charlene... the numbers would be there, but the problem is many still hide in the closet and suffer.

And as for the risk out weighs the possible gains? You never know UNLESS you try and in today's society, you will be very surprised.

I've lived in fear and been paranoid my whole damn life but then to come out and find that my fears were very unfounded.

Australia has some of the best Anti-discrimination laws and Gender Services in the world
and believe me, we tend to be a redneck based society but attitudes are certainly changing
and that only happened by standing up for yourself and getting out and talking to people.

I was speaking in generaliaties. One point being that I do not think it fair to expect anyone to take on the role of "activist" for our cause. Even in reasonably mild social interactions. Many here say that to transition is to risk everything in your life. I agree ! I believe that is something you have to consider and should realize is very possible before you start down such a path. But to be an "out and PROUD and Trans" person who works towards a better future for all of us is a lot to ask - especially if added to a transitioning life. You are taking a very risky life change and making it even more risky. It takes a special and courageous person to do that. I am very proud of those who do, I applaud and support all - including both of you - for such efforts. But I do not think it shamful if another of us decides that those combined risks are more than they feel they can handle.

Personally I support our movement locally in every way I can, but I hardly could be called and activist. Will I be that someday ? Maybe, we'll see when I get the other side of SRS. For now I work with our locall LGBT group and a Trans group. I have been interviewed on campus TV etc. But I also have two jobs, one full time, one half. I need to pay my bills and save for surgery. My free time is next to nothing. I am now in my 10th month of RLE and have socially transitioned. My town is small, without the students, it is about 35,000 people. So "stealth" is out the window as I've lived here for 30 years and have been active in town life. My daily living functions as the example I can give out to the world. It is a normal life and over time those around me may change their views of TG folks simply because I seem ok to them. Someday I may work activiely towards that change too.

You may notice that those here who "finish", who go thru the standard transition often fade and disappear. Why ? Many reasons of course. But often they just want to live the life that they have suffered and worked for. To me, they are welcome to fade, to go stealth if they choose that. They do not owe anyone but themselves, anything. I wish them well and hope their lives are beautiful and safe and happy. If they choose to "stand up and be counted" or whatever, then they deserve all of our respect and support !!

Melody Moore
10-31-2010, 05:08 PM
Charlene, I disagree... I feel it is vitally important that we ALL become activists & advocates - we owe it to others in society who have also helped us, take Robyn Stott, my house-mate (http://www.cairns.com.au/article/2009/10/31/73405_lifestyle.html) who is now helping me for example... So I've been thinking of doing a similar media release with the local newspaper as well to help further educate my local community even more. This is the type of thing that will change MANY attitudes, improve local gender services & anti-discrimination laws not only for ourselves, but it will also pave the way for others who follow in our footsteps. If you don't want to become an advocate, that's fine, but I do really think that is a weak and pathetic attitude. Sorry if that remark offends you personally, but my agenda here right now in posting on this thread is to motivate more people to start standing up for themselves & our rights to be accepted in mainstream society.

Robyn is now fading into the background just like you predicted many would, but she has done her bit to help the local transgender community,
now I feel its my turn to step up to the plate... I owe it to Robyn Stott and others who have helped me but most importantly I owe it to myself.

arbon
10-31-2010, 06:10 PM
The number are interesting..

I live in a small town of 1500.There is one trans woman that is very out in our town and has been for the last 6 months. Then there is me. Not out full time but a lot of people know that I am transitioning and I plan to be at the end of my duaghters school year. Neither of us trans women is going to get much Anonymity around here having both frown up here and lived here most of our lives - so everyone has already kown us as boys and men so it will be hard to escape that.

I just thought it very interesting though, that we are both from the same small town and coming out so close together (though she has been out longer than six months - she had moved to a city to go through transition over the last few years and moved back here about 6 months ago, about the time I thought I was going to be the only one doing the trans 101 education for our town - lucky me she came back because it does make it easier for me)

Its weird - because the old numbers were like 1 in 300000 or some ridiculous thing, but there are really a lot of us out there.

Kathryn Martin
10-31-2010, 06:34 PM
But I do not think it shamful if another of us decides that those combined risks are more than they feel they can handle.

Personally I support our movement locally in every way I can, but I hardly could be called and activist. Will I be that someday ? Maybe, we'll see when I get the other side of SRS. For now I work with our locall LGBT group and a Trans group. I have been interviewed on campus TV etc. But I also have two jobs, one full time, one half. I need to pay my bills and save for surgery. My free time is next to nothing. I am now in my 10th month of RLE and have socially transitioned. My town is small, without the students, it is about 35,000 people. So "stealth" is out the window as I've lived here for 30 years and have been active in town life. My daily living functions as the example I can give out to the world. It is a normal life and over time those around me may change their views of TG folks simply because I seem ok to them. Someday I may work activiely towards that change too.

I actually agree with you regarding your point about combined risks being too much to take for some of us. Don't get me wrong, I completely understand if someone cannot handle being out front. What I consider shameful is when we see abuse and instead of intervening we turn our backs or worse join in the abuse.

What you describe about your activities is exactly what I meant. We cannot ask people to do more than they can but what you do is much and I am grateful because in a way you do it for me too.

Inna
10-31-2010, 07:07 PM
Our cause is being heard, thanks to courageous few advocates among our midst. When I was born, Transexuality was not understood nor was it acknowledged in the backward country of mine. When I have come to the US in early 80s I was astonished by the openness of gay community and mortified when Aids have come onto the scene. For every two steps sexuality must take one back due to general stereotypical tendencies of a societal frame, and this dreadful disease have set us back quite a bit, adhering a deranged and dirty label to all gender flux. Just as gays and lesbians are boxed together so are we and with every setback all of us suffer consequence. It is of utmost importance to have our voices heard but as well, those voices need to be heard by well versed, outspoken and dynamic personalities. It is rather obvious not all of us are shining examples of a dynamic personality, and not all of us will take the torch of Transgenderism to spread the fires of illumination.
But we have been blessed with some strong willed individuals who have cleared the way for others to follow. To think of show such as Oprah, 20/20, mainstream media to run transexual subject programs over the prime time airwaves even 20 years ago would be a far fetched dream. Well it is upon us, and such as human beings are, some of us will set a good example, some will smear our image in dirt, and some will be powerful communicators enlightening and changing societal boundaries of sexuality.

I am grateful for Kathryn's desire to take up the fight and blessed with her friendship on the forum and who knows how far may it lead and a friendship of all of you and love you have for one another. I for one might have not made it if not for this wonderfully slightly dysfunctional family. Every one of us has a path and must fulfill what seams right, that path is illuminated with love and all we have to do is listen to our hearts.

Love girls!

Areyan
10-31-2010, 08:20 PM
i believe it... did you get the newer stats from Lynn Conways' site? if so then yes, i don't think she's wrong and as she stated on her site, even putting this to people who do statistics/mathematical equations for a living had to agree with her. the numbers had to change over the years to reflect not only successful/completed GRS surgeries but the truth about the number of people both male/female presenting with transsexualism to medical professionals over the last few decades alone and how many are out there living stealth lives...

it's astounding how many MTF surgeries are done over the course of one year and FTM as well though i am only just starting to do more research on this area. i am FTM and i believe i may be TS myself.... reading that 1 in 500 individuals of both sexes are actually transsexual does not surprise me.

i responded too because you got my attention with the juicy gossip thing, heh.... oh how cis folk like to sensationalize this! i know i'm coming at it here from the other side of the spectrum but i do have a (real world) MTF friend who has to put up with this kind of behaviour from people and even more blatant disrespect. i still get odd looks if i'm dressed darkly with my sharkies on, legs spread and glaring at them from my seat in the bus, heh... us FTMs get the 'butch lesbian' treatment... so not a compliment in any way, lol. anyway, i sympathize. my own transition seems to be a whisper away so i understand the gravity of what you are all undertaking... my plans list is growing by the day.

Hope
10-31-2010, 09:07 PM
I was speaking in generaliaties. One point being that I do not think it fair to expect anyone to take on the role of "activist" for our cause. Even in reasonably mild social interactions. Many here say that to transition is to risk everything in your life. I agree ! I believe that is something you have to consider and should realize is very possible before you start down such a path. But to be an "out and PROUD and Trans" person who works towards a better future for all of us is a lot to ask - especially if added to a transitioning life.

I can agree with you - to a point. I think it is unfair to expect everyone of us to join a trans activist group and spend time and money involved in trans activism in that sort of official capacity. I agree with you there 100% - Not everyone has that kind of skill set, or calling in life.

HOWEVER - I think we are all activists. Weather we like it or not. We are all ambassadors. We are, in many cases, the only trans people that most of the public will (knowingly) interact with, and I don't think it is irresponsible to ask the other members of our community to be good representatives, and to work for positive change - not even so much for the entire community - but for their own welfare. I think that is why we should be "out and proud" for our own benefit, psychology, and socially AND for the benefit of the rest of the community. We don't have to hate ourselves, we don't have to be ashamed. For the most part, that is garbage in our own heads, not out in the world.

Is that dangerous? Yeah it is, at least it can be. Particularly if you live in a place where bigotry is still acceptable. But we can moderate that danger by not being in places that are unsafe. We can choose to not live in the rural south. We can choose to live in places that are safer - just like our brothers and sisters in the GLB community do. GLB folks don't live in places like San Francisco, Seattle, Boston, and Manhattan because they like to pay high rent - they gravitate to those places because they are safer, healthier places for them (and us) to live. And we can moderate that danger by not interacting with those who are, frankly, bigots. They can't be made to behave like human beings, so we should simply avoid them. We have all lost friends like this, and honestly, I don't think we have lost anything.

But we are activists, every one of us, simply by being who we are, the only question that remains to be answered is whether or not we will be agents of positive change or not.

Danni Bear
10-31-2010, 09:54 PM
[QUOTE=Hope;2308063]

Is that dangerous? Yeah it is, at least it can be. Particularly if you live in a place where bigotry is still acceptable. But we can moderate that danger by not being in places that are unsafe. We can choose to not live in the rural south. We can choose to live in places that are safer - just like our brothers and sisters in the GLB community do. GLB folks don't live in places like San Francisco, Seattle, Boston, and Manhattan because they like to pay high rent - they gravitate to those places because they are safer, healthier places for them (and us) to live. And we can moderate that danger by not interacting with those who are, frankly, bigots. They can't be made to behave like human beings, so we should simply avoid them. We have all lost friends like this, and honestly, I don't think we have lost anything.

Hope, I personally live in the rural south that you speak about. Not all areas of it is bigoted and dangerous for any that are tg. Myself I've been out as female for about 48 years in my hometown which is one of the most racially biased cities in Texas, I have never been treated with disrespect or hatred either before or after transition and neither has my husband. We are well known business owners here and active in several civic organizations. The fact that we are both ts post-op has never had a effect on our business or personal lives. this is not what most of our brothers and sisters face in their lives but to say that you need to live in a glbt enclave such as S.F. ,boston, new York is not going to help. It is people who like me make their lives in main street towns here and every where else that will make a difference in the long run.

Danni

Melody Moore
11-01-2010, 12:14 AM
HOWEVER - I think we are all activists. Weather we like it or not. We are all ambassadors. We are, in many cases, the only trans people that most of the public will (knowingly) interact with, and I don't think it is irresponsible to ask the other members of our community to be good representatives, and to work for positive change - not even so much for the entire community - but for their own welfare. I think that is why we should be "out and proud" for our own benefit, psychology, and socially AND for the benefit of the rest of the community. We don't have to hate ourselves, we don't have to be ashamed. For the most part, that is garbage in our own heads, not out in the world.

Is that dangerous? Yeah it is, at least it can be. Particularly if you live in a place where bigotry is still acceptable. But we can moderate that danger by not being in places that are unsafe. We can choose to not live in the rural south. We can choose to live in places that are safer - just like our brothers and sisters in the GLB community do. GLB folks don't live in places like San Francisco, Seattle, Boston, and Manhattan because they like to pay high rent - they gravitate to those places because they are safer, healthier places for them (and us) to live. And we can moderate that danger by not interacting with those who are, frankly, bigots. They can't be made to behave like human beings, so we should simply avoid them. We have all lost friends like this, and honestly, I don't think we have lost anything.

But we are activists, every one of us, simply by being who we are, the only question that remains to be answered is whether or not we will be agents of positive change or not.
Right on Hope, we are ALL can do our bit even if its just talking to a few people from time to time.

Where I live in cairns in the deep North of tropical Far North Queensland - it is home to some of the toughest men & women you will ever meet in Australia - its like the Deep South in the USA. Home of of people who are descendants of the pioneering gold prospectors who fought very hard just to survive. Far North Queensland is home to some the most dangerous Australian wildlife such as snakes & saltwater crocodiles. Every year the people here battle the elements having to endure fierce cyclones & flooding during the tropical monsoonal wet season - if you want to meet a tough fair dinkum aussie bogun (redneck) in Australia, then come to Cairns & you would certainly be in the best place.

The reason I believe there is so much ignorance around is because for most people they have never met a transsexual in their lives! I know before I started transitioning I think I encountered 1 or 2 during my entire life - but there really are many of us out there. The only violent threat I have ever encountered was when I first came out to my homo/transphobic house-mate (who I actually visited today by the way) a few months ago. Its amazing to see how his attitude is now turned around - he has gone from making threats towards me and throwing my stuff out on the street to the point that he is actually now showing me proper respect & addressing me properly as a female. Had he not met me - he would still been part of a small & ignorant group of people in my local community who I also have also had a very positive affect upon.

Sure it can be dangerous to be out, but for the most part it isn't dangerous at all - Ives found it to quite the opposite in my local community. There is lots of love in my community for people who are true to themselves and are courageous enough to stand up for what they believe in. There is always much greater safety in numbers. If you are not part of a local transgender support group already, then join one or join your local GLBT support group. I also regularly attend Out! Cairns (http://outcairns.org/) Committee meetings now to partake in the planning of up & coming events where we promote public awareness & acceptance. Also linked to the same GLBT group is Cairns Tropical Pride (http://www.cairnstropicalpride.com.au/) who won “Best Float” in the Cairns Festival Street Parade on the 21st of August this year. By joining these groups & by participating in these types of events - it shows others in your community how many of sexually & gender diverse people are actually out there in your local community who have lots of pride in who they really are.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLWxxRNEnAQ


Hope, I personally live in the rural south that you speak about. Not all areas of it is bigoted and dangerous for any that are tg. Myself I've been out as female for about 48 years in my hometown which is one of the most racially biased cities in Texas, I have never been treated with disrespect or hatred either before or after transition and neither has my husband. We are well known business owners here and active in several civic organizations. The fact that we are both ts post-op has never had a effect on our business or personal lives. this is not what most of our brothers and sisters face in their lives but to say that you need to live in a glbt enclave such as S.F. ,boston, new York is not going to help. It is people who like me make their lives in main street towns here and every where else that will make a difference in the long run.

Danni
Thanks Danni for your comments which also endorse a lot of my own. I would also like to mention that there are a large number of business in this area that are owned and operated by members of the GLBT community & just to name a few... Skinny Dips Resort & Spa (http://www.skinnydips.com.au/), Turtle Cove Resort (http://www.turtlecove.com/) & Toby's Retreat at Holloways Beach (http://www.tobysretreat.com.au/).

I can also safely say that Cairns has one of the best ran Gender clinics in Australia at the North Cairns Sexual Health Service (http://www.health.qld.gov.au/sexhealth/help/cairns.asp) and that all the services offered are free. I am also sure that we wouldn't ever have these type of services nor would we have the anti-discrimination laws in Australia if we didn't all unite and stand up and be counted with pride. If you are going to hide away from society then nothing will ever change in your local community.

AllieSF
11-01-2010, 01:07 AM
I agree that each person should do what is possible for them. From in your face activism all the way down to just explaining to others that the LGBT lifestyle and community has every right to co-exist with the rest of society in all countries. I know that not all of us will be out their exposed to the public giving speeches, marching in parades and working in public positions with our lifestyle open to all. I do not believe that we all have to be out to the world. I am not out to my family nor friends, and for the present time there is no need for that with the risks far outweighing the little gain for me. However, I am out in the general public away from home at least once a week, dining, drinking, going to theaters, museums, shopping and just being myself. I am definitely one of those ambassadors talking to whomever I run into. Actually, that is one of my main motivators to be out. I love to interact with others while in drab or femme modes. Most of the time the conversation does not touch the LGBT world, but rather whatever the topic is at the moment. Just by being myself gives a lot of people an introduction to me and my world. I do not believe in forcing/coercing others to do something that they are not ready to do or cannot do.

Rianna Humble
11-01-2010, 01:55 AM
You may notice that those here who "finish", who go thru the standard transition often fade and disappear. Why ? Many reasons of course. But often they just want to live the life that they have suffered and worked for. To me, they are welcome to fade, to go stealth if they choose that. They do not owe anyone but themselves, anything. I wish them well and hope their lives are beautiful and safe and happy. If they choose to "stand up and be counted" or whatever, then they deserve all of our respect and support !!

:iagree:

{Soapbox}Many people just want to get on with living as the person that they always knew they were and don't want to be labelled "that tranny" for the rest of their lives. We would be utterly wrong to try to cajole them into becoming any sort of activist.

There is another thread that has touched on the subject of whether we transition to become the man or woman we should have been or to be the eternal tranny and whilst I might disagree with the language used to express the ideas in that thread, it is each person's inalienable right to do what they feel is right for their life in this respect.

I believe that the vast majority of us will always do our bit to discourage the bigoted attitudes and unkind remarks, but that the majority will never be activists and nor should we try to make them so.

I know that there is a sort of chicken and egg situation here, in that if no-one stands up for our rights we won't get any, but there are enough people who are role models or (like myself) so far in the public eye that we couldn't hide even if we wanted to that we can afford to let others just lead normal lives.

Let's not forget that there can be a downside to being in the public eye as well - just about everything I do and every inflection of my voice is put under the microscope for possible criticism and if I get anything wrong, it can reflect badly on our community.

Yes we need activists to speak out for us, but we also need ordinary men and women to live their lives as they were meant to be lived. {/Soapbox}

noeleena
11-01-2010, 04:48 AM
Hi.

May be im different & would the word acceptance have much meaning here . or am i so blind to think that im accepted .
would it make much difference to say & dare i say it been in front of over 3 millon people in the papers & on the net world wide.
i must be dreaming or made this up.

oh there is the other little detail of womens groups & being in front of 1000 s of people .

Well may be iv missed the point of this,
im not a actvist i dont need to be, i deal with people in all ranks of life as well. .

Heres the down side . me,im 63 dont look much like a female / woman , my voice well i think its a bit male not a girle girl in fact far from it .

yet why then , these are the ?s you need to ask, am i accepted AS a woman. are the people just playing along are they blind do they think im deluded , a nut case. what ever... may be i am & i could accept that no problem...

My point is you wont to get peoples backs up then push them into a corner & demand them to accept you . i ll just say for transsexuals it wont work today or ever , it wont happen no matter what you say.

im accepted with all my faults my not being a true woman let alone a whole one. i know what i am & so do they because i TOLD them .
you see you wont acceptance then be open tell them the truth.


you see i am ACCEPTED because i was up front with people at the time i talked with .

Now i dont blend in, it wont happen people see what you see in my pic. they look , well some do because i wear a head scarve or head wear. very few people here in N Z do . so im the odd one out . does not stop me from being accepted by so MANY people .

Im disapointed to be told that some have to resort to being activists to get people s acceptance.

Now do people understand us, quite likely not yet face to face iv talked to many 100 s of people most if not all were stranges in large groups as well .

I all so understand most of you here are coming from a different back ground & place where you live & yes its different for you .
Iv all so had acceptance over in Austraila as well , were ever iv been & thats just normal people you meet in the street.

Im not saying you have to go on T V like i did or have interviews & have your history open to the world i did. thats not it most of you would rather just blend in.

I would have done in one day what many will not ever do & that is letting others know why we are like we are , how we get on in socity & live our lifes as woman , who to all intents & poposes (( were )) male .

my up side is being born with both male & female wired brain.
I dont belive we have to be activsts to show others who we are . iv proved that over the years.

Now remember im only talking about my self in New Zealand & Austraila .

...noeleena...

Kathryn Martin
11-01-2010, 05:19 PM
did you get the newer stats from Lynn Conways' site?

reading that 1 in 500 individuals of both sexes are actually transsexual does not surprise me.

i responded too because you got my attention with the juicy gossip thing, heh.... oh how cis folk like to sensationalize this! i know i'm coming at it here from the other side of the spectrum but i do have a (real world) MTF friend who has to put up with this kind of behaviour from people and even more blatant disrespect.

Yes I relied on the Lynn Conway study. She says that there is 1:2500 males or females are having SRS, and 1:500 are in some form transgendered from CD to full TS.

I don't think that you are in relation to what we are talking about here on the other side of the spectrum. You are an FtM transsexual as much as I am an MtF transsexual. We have in common that we transition from one gender to another. The issues regarding public acceptance are ultimately the same although nuanced differently. The "juicy" gossip part is simply this weird human desire to elevate oneself by diminishing someone else, people feel better if they can call someone worse. Exacerbated by the lack of understanding by those who have no gender issues this can get pretty vicious.


I think it is unfair to expect everyone of us to join a trans activist group and spend time and money involved in trans activism in that sort of official capacity. I agree with you there 100% - Not everyone has that kind of skill set, or calling in life.


But we are activists, every one of us, simply by being who we are, the only question that remains to be answered is whether or not we will be agents of positive change or not.

I do not expect everyone to be an "activist" at all. But in some small way we all contribute. As Prof. Miqqui Gilbert says, it is up to us to de-sensitize the world to us and gain some acceptance by being out and about not necessarily "come out".

If we are never seen for who we are the world can go on ignoring us.


I know that not all of us will be out their exposed to the public giving speeches, marching in parades and working in public positions with our lifestyle open to all.

I won't be giving public speeches or march in parades. I have spoken out against and tried to educate people about all forms of discriminating and derisive behaviour because as a human being that is what I feel I need to do. In addition, I speak out against gratuitous violence whether physical, spiritual or emotional wherever I see or hear it. This has nothing to do with me being transgendered. The best work is often done in quiet.


Many people just want to get on with living as the person that they always knew they were and don't want to be labelled "that tranny" for the rest of their lives. We would be utterly wrong to try to cajole them into becoming any sort of activist.

Yes we need activists to speak out for us, but we also need ordinary men and women to live their lives as they were meant to be lived.

If you read my blog you will find a much larger discussion on the issue of anonymity.

"Anonymity is important to any transitioning transsexual and it comes in three steps. Firstly we live a stealthy life until we reach the ability to acknowledge ourselves. Secondly, we must protect our ability to transition to reach a point where we can socially step out. Finally we need to change our environment to be female after transition without continuous references to our gender past. We are dependent on the good will of our social environment to not out us, especially not for "pay back" purposes or kicks and giggles."