If I was gay

[Engendered]

I was thinking about this yesterday. I think that if I was gay, I would probably have transitioned. As it is though, I'm only interested in girls, and I also want to keep the option of one day having my own kids open, whether or not that is likely to happen.

It's funny how a sexual preference change may well have altered my life in more ways than one.

[Gerrijerry]

gender preference and sexual preference are not the same. So if you wanted to transition you would. There is nothing wrong with being a crossdresser or a transexual, both have reasons to wanting to be who they are. I do believe that you are born to each group and it is not something you choose. Just my thoughts.

[joannemarie barker]

I fancy some guys like crazy but I don't wanna transition :)

[Engendered]

Thanks for the reply. :)
I have to disagree with you though. I think quite a significant number of people who don't transition, would do so if certain circumstances were different in their lives. And I think (for me at least), being straight makes it slightly more difficult. I am *not* saying that being gay makes it easy to transition, as it's never easy to do so. I'm saying it would make it eas(ier)...for me. So would having lots of cash, or if society was completely accepting, or if I already had children/already had a partner, and they were happy for me to do it. Regardless of who you are on the inside, sometimes the cold hard practical considerations of life have to weigh in, before you decide whether it's worth it or not. Maybe you're saying that if I was a true TS, than none of those concerns would matter, but I don't believe that's true.

[joannemarie barker]

If you transitioned would you still be gay?

I think you'd be another lovely looking straight girl :)

[Danni Bear]

Thanks for the reply. :)
I have to disagree with you though. I think quite a significant number of people who don't transition, would do so if certain circumstances were different in their lives. And I think (for me at least), being straight makes it slightly more difficult. I am *not* saying that being gay makes it easy to transition, as it's never easy to do so. I'm saying it would make it eas(ier)...for me. So would having lots of cash, or if society was completely accepting, or if I already had children/already had a partner, and they were happy for me to do it. Regardless of who you are on the inside, sometimes the cold hard practical considerations of life have to weigh in, before you decide whether it's worth it or not. Maybe you're saying that if I was a true TS, than none of those concerns would matter, but I don't believe that's true.

Maybe what you say is true in your case. In the cases of people that do transition fully or who stop and are no-op or pre-op your assertations could not be further from the truth. Most of us would never transition if we had a choice. We don't, it literally becomes a matter of life or death to many. To live a life as a lie is something that many of us have done for a major portion of our lives. It takes a severe toll on us both mentally and emotionally as well as on our loved ones. To state that we would willingly put others through the heartache and hassles of transition because they didn't matter is demeaning to those of us that do. I didn't choose to be TS,neither did my husband we were born that way. And as you seem to believe that a person who is GAY or perhaps LESBIAN makes it easier to transition, guess again. Very few of our GAY and LESBIAN brothers and sisters ever even consider transition. A TS is a person who's GENDER IDENTITY is opposite of their birth identity and rarely has anything to do with SEXUAL PREFERENCE.

Danni

[Charise52]

I am a man, and I think and feel like a man, yet I love women's clothes and wear them exclusively, and I love women... fortunately my girl friends are OK with this... on Gender, I tried the gay experience, and it was so beautiful, now I know what it feels like to be a woman, and it made me honor my girl friends even more... now I just wear the clothes...

[Rianna Humble]

I am not saying that there are never any people who let circumstances bar them from living their life as their true gender, but I'm with Danni that the largest majority of us transition because we don't feel we have any option. When I finally sought help for my condition, I told my doctor that I would rather die an ugly woman than to live one more day as the man I know I should never have been.

Sexual preference should not enter into the equation at all when determining whether someone needs to transition. Even the question of whether one wishes to have children that are biologically their own does not need to make any difference. There is the case of a lesbian couple who have recently had their own children because one of the partners used to be a man and had sperm frozen in case she later wanted to start a family.

I'm sorry to say that I think that Engendered is using this argument to help her find a way out of the Pink Fog.

It is bad enough that people outside the TG community think that you need to be gay to transition, but at least they are just uninformed. I would hope that within the TG community, there are enough examples to prove that being gay or lesbian has nothing to do with whether you need to transition.

[Engendered]

To state that we would willingly put others through the heartache and hassles of transition because they didn't matter is demeaning to those of us that do.

Please don't twist what I said. :( Someone said that if I wanted to transition, I would, regardless of any factor. I disagreed with that.



And as you seem to believe that a person who is GAY or perhaps LESBIAN makes it easier to transition, guess again.


This whole topic was made because of a personal revelation I had about my own situation. In my first topic, I made it very clear this was about me, and just me. When i was misunderstood, I bent over backwards and held up a white flag pointing out (twice!) that this would make things easier -> for me <-. In that second topic, I did refer to other people however, and said that there would be circumstances that would make it easier for other people to transition. If you don't think that a change in circumstance would make it easier for some people to transition, then you haven't been reading this forum much over the last few years.

Yes, some people are driven by an absolute imperative to transition, and it becomes a matter of life and death. I'm suggesting that for some others in the TG spectrum, they have more of a choice, and I feel I'm in this zone.


A TS is a person who's GENDER IDENTITY is opposite of their birth identity and rarely has anything to do with SEXUAL PREFERENCE.


I really take objection to your reply, because you tried to paint me as a not nice person, when I just wanted to express something about my own situation. I didn't say that sexual preference had anything to do with being TS or not. I said that it is a factor when it comes to choices I make for myself.

I want to give some background (although it's not really relevant). I spend most of my time living as a girl (80+%), and 100% of the time I spend at home. I am out to all my friends and family. I strongly identify as female, and if all other things were equal I would transition. However, it's not an imperative for me, and I guess I'm fortunate that I do feel I have choices. I can tolerate playing the guy role to be able to fulfil some other needs and wants I have, that transitioning would make more difficult. It's a balancing act, that I feel would have been tipped had I had a different sexual preference.

Now, you can disagree with what I'm feeling, and can say I'm deluding myself and am not a real TS, but please don't reply as if I'm talking about you, or other people. This wasn't what this topic was supposed to be about, and I don't like being made out to be unreasonable or nasty.

To lighten things, as I feel like I've brought the tone down.
:hugs: :)

[LilahH81]

I am gay, and this has not increased my desire to transition. I find I enjoy being a feminine gay man too much! :)

[Karren H]

Yeah but it depends on your situation too.... Chatting with a couple closeted gay crossdressers in a relationship with another man and they have the exact same issues straight crossdressers.... affraid to tell their partner that they crossdress because they fear they will leave them... Guys who like guys typically don't like guys that want to become women, women who used to be guys..... or guys that dress like women...... So sexual preference might not be a major driving force to push someone to transition.... imho


I am gay, and this has not increased my desire to transition. I find I enjoy being a feminine gay man too much! :)

Bingo!! great timing lol

[maya1love]

HI all. Feminine gay man here. Although I have thought about transitioning in the past, I realized that that is not my path. I like men, and I like wearing women's clothes...and that's about it.

[kimdl93]

interesting thought. I have a similar perspective. I enjoy female companiionship, but have dabbled with males (not when en femme). But I envsioned and have lived my life in a relationship with a woman and as a parent. If not for the kids, I may have been living en femme both privately and publically.

[Lucy_Bella]

As it's been said here many many times, ...We are all different... I am straight and most of the public finds it odd that a straight male finds pleasure emulating a female.. To me I would find that practice more acceptable in the publics eye if a Gay male was emulating a female.. Which is far from the truth!

Why ? Because if Gay I would instead emulate a male to attract another male because thats just it ..the attraction ..Just as hard as it may be for us straight Crossdressers to attract a female, there isn't many out there who find a male emulating a female attractive. It would only make sense that a Gay Male would find it hard to attract another Gay male who emulates a female, they are considered Gay because they are not attracted to females. Now Bi is a possiability for some ..

I have heard hundreds of times in my life from females that a well groomed attractive man usally turns out to be Gay ( not proven).. So it's the attraction not the clothes, are you attracted to men? If the answer is No than you are certainly not Gay..

[Stephanie Anne]

I was thinking about this yesterday. I think that if I was gay, I would probably have transitioned. As it is though, I'm only interested in girls, and I also want to keep the option of one day having my own kids open, whether or not that is likely to happen.

It's funny how a sexual preference change may well have altered my life in more ways than one.

Did you know sexual preference has nothing to do with Gender identity? If you are interested in girls and transition that makes you interested in girls but in a strictly clinical sense, that would also make you a lesbian.

There really is nothing sexual about transitioning except for the name transsexual, which has nothing at all to do with one's sexuality. you may think otherwise but it is important to understand the difference between sexual orientation and gender identity.

Just because a percentage of gay and lesbian men and women happen to be transgendered does not mean everyone is.

[Debglam]

As it's been said here many many times, ...We are all different... I am straight and most of the public finds it odd that a straight male finds pleasure emulating a female.. To me I would find that practice more acceptable in the publics eye if a Gay male was emulating a female.. Which is far from the truth!..

Wow, I haven't even introduced myself on the board yet but this thread was just too compelling to skip! I think that it is human nature to want to categorize things and people want to fit us to the "box" that makes sense to them. "You must be gay because straight is the only other choice and straight men don't want to emulate women."

Frankly I have been trying to figure out "what" box I fit in my entire life. I have this compulsion to dress and look like a woman but have no desire to be with a man. I have no desire to become a woman full-time either. Before the internet, I remember going to the high school library and doing some research only to find that "transvestism" (is that what I am?) is a mental illness! Great, I must be crazy - another "box!" Then I start looking on the internet in my search for knowledge and after filtering out all of the porn, I find that there are even more boxes with not only different names but abbreviations that I have yet to figure out. CD, TG, TS, TV????? (Is there a secret dictionary?)

Anyway, I'm sorry if I may have taken this thread slightly off topic but what I have enjoyed about lurking on the forum for the past few days is seeing that maybe there isn't a clearcut box that I fit in or even need to. Amazing how it only took me 46 years to figure this out. :-)

Oh, Hi everyone - I'm Debby and am a little devastated at how pretty the women in this forum look! Maybe someday. . .:sad:

[Maddie22]

Regardless of who you are on the inside, sometimes the cold hard practical considerations of life have to weigh in, before you decide whether it's worth it or not.

I agree. I think everyone who goes through transitioning weighs everything out to its entirety. People often say its the matter of life and death, well then they are still weighing their options out, they are choosing to live. Just because someone chooses not to transition, doesn't make them any more or less TS, TG. Just like someone that only dresses every once in awhile is still a crossdresser. People's circumstances are all different. Some people who do transition decide not to get the full surgery, but they still consider themselves TS and female (even with their male parts).

I also understand where Engendered is coming from on the sexual orientation and the sociological relationship it has with gender identity. Lets face the cold hard facts here: People who are gay are a pretty small minority (less than 10% of the population) and people in the Trans-gendered umbrella make up even less of the population. So to the mainstream public, we are an anomaly. With that, the perception by the vast majority of the public is that sexual orientation and gender go hand in hand (boys should be boys and go with girls, girls should be girls and go with boys). With differences in sexual orientation becoming more recognized and more tolerant, people are now associating crossdressing/drag/butch/gender queer ect...with being a gay/lesbian thing. I wouldn't go as far as to say that it is accepted, but it is more closely associated with each other. It doesn't make it right, and for the most part the members of this forum understand the differences of gender and sexual orientation even though the vast majority of the society we live in does not. These are just the circumstances in which we live.

I know in my own personal circumstances I weigh my options and think about whether or not I could transition or not. We all have different priorities in life, and different circumstances and struggle of how to place and balance everything. And as much as we are oppressed by the society in which we live, think how oppressed people in the middle east are, and how few options they have about living the life they really wish they could, and be who they want to be.

For me personally, things that I weigh are the my size, and would I be able to live in the world being a 6'6'' woman easily (I know there are few GG's out there that are that height, but they are few and far between) with out being harassed and being thought of as a freak. Could I still have the career I want. How would my friends and family react. How can I afford to transition at this point in my life. Would I be able to find a partner that would accept me and love me? Yes, I do understand that for some the choice of transitioning or not is a matter of life or death, and trust me, I think about that as an option as well, but I do have a huge struggle inside between wanting that normal family next door life because in a way it is much easier to do in our society. Then I struggle with my other side that I know I want to transition fully which would be easier for me to live internally, but not as easy to do with in societies realms. I don't know if there is a balance between the two or not.

I'll stop my rant now...and Hi Deby welcome to the forum!! I don't really know who I am very often either!!!!

[Sophie86]

I was thinking about this yesterday. I think that if I was gay, I would probably have transitioned. As it is though, I'm only interested in girls, and I also want to keep the option of one day having my own kids open, whether or not that is likely to happen.

It's funny how a sexual preference change may well have altered my life in more ways than one.

FWIW, I totally get what you're saying.

[Rianna Humble]

I have been trying to figure out "what" box I fit in my entire life. I have this compulsion to dress and look like a woman but have no desire to be with a man. I have no desire to become a woman full-time either. Before the internet, I remember going to the high school library and doing some research only to find that "transvestism" (is that what I am?) is a mental illness! Great, I must be crazy - another "box!" Then I start looking on the internet in my search for knowledge and after filtering out all of the porn, I find that there are even more boxes with not only different names but abbreviations that I have yet to figure out. CD, TG, TS, TV????? (Is there a secret dictionary?)

Firstly, transvestism is not a mental illness, but may be considered in some quarters to be a "disorder". It i sunfortunate that the medical profession has decided to classify those of us whose brain gender does not match our anatomy as suffering from Gender Identity Disorder which as I understand it is considered a mental defect even though we are not mentally defective.

The abbreviations you mentioned:

CD = Cross-Dresser often considered a more acceptable term than Transvestite (TV) because in some parts of the world transvestism is seen as a sexual fetish

TG = TransGender(ed) an umbrella term that covers all those who do not conform to the binary gender stereotype

TS = Transsexual aka Gender Dysphoria or Gender Identity Disorder although we are not usually disorderly when sober :heehee: usually used to describe someone who accepts the need to live according to their brain gender rather than their body gender and may or may not go as far as "the operation"

TV = Transvestite/Transvestism a term that etymologically is equivalent to Cross-dreser/Cross-Dressing but as stated above often comes with a baggage of fetishism these days

and a bonus definition

GRS/SRS = Gender Reassignment Surgery / Sex Reassignment Surgery - the surgical procedure to align the body to a TS person's gender

[Debglam]

Thanks Rianna! I really hope that the book and the attitudes that it contained are now ancient history. It sure wasn't any help to a confused teenager! I appreciate the definitions too! I think I may be starting to figure some of this out, which is pretty miraculous. GG: Genetic girl? SO: Significant other?

[Frédérique]

I was thinking about this yesterday. I think that if I was gay, I would probably have transitioned. As it is though, I'm only interested in girls, and I also want to keep the option of one day having my own kids open, whether or not that is likely to happen.
It's funny how a sexual preference change may well have altered my life in more ways than one.

Are you sure? If you were a gay male, and you liked only boys, why would you feel the need to transition? It gets complicated, and there are many variations, but the effeminate homosexual crossdresser is going the way of the typewriter – here in 2010, homosexuals are largely more “male” than they have been allowed to be, or perceived to be, or expected to be. There was a tectonic shift some time ago, and the male homosexual “facade” morphed away from what it previously had been. Enter the crossdressers, and the issue gets very complicated. Am I dressing to attract men, or am I a “male lesbian” who clings to some all-encompassing appreciation of femininity, seeking to somehow become what I admire and worship? What if you’re trying to emulate females, and you wind up attracting males, something you didn’t set out to do? It gets confusing, to be sure...

Is it all about attraction, or are we expressing something much deeper by dressing up in the “wrong” clothes? In my case, there is a certain amount of repression, and it finds an outlet in this thing we call crossdressing. I never used to think about that, but I am now. I like to dress up as a girl, or, to be specific, as a woman – that hasn’t changed. Do I like only girls? That has changed, and I’m more inclined to see crossdressing as a step, or an indication of intent. I identify as a male, and express myself as a female – this is “between” the major crossdressing types that are known by most outsiders. For me, transitioning is out of the question, but I could still be gay, or bisexual, and crossdress to express my innate nature, which is not out in the open quite yet...

[pointe941]

In my early teens I had to figure out gender identity and sexual preference. I was too nervous to talk to anyone openly, and instead caved in to pressure to go on meds to make me "normal". Was not good.

I knew I liked some womens clothes, and sex fantacies involved me as the reciever, so I looked into the idea of transitioning. In the end I did not persue it, and am instead in a relationship with a great (and kinky) guy who accepts that I like to wear heels, girls sneakers, and other misc femm items some nights :)