Testosterone Blockers

[RachelDee]

Ok, I'm not sure if this is going to sound silly but... well I'll ask a stupid question anyway.

I'm aware HRT involves T Blockers to some extent (depending on the individual?). Do you think that a GP would prescribe these (T Blockers not HRT) as an interim to treatment for gender issues? Or even as a way to see how one feels, and to help ease some anxiety?

I have a few reasons for this, one is that if they don't cause a person to become permanently sterile (like taking female hormones would), then I'd like to see how I felt with less testosterone floating around inside me. I'd like to curb the 'male libido' too as it were, I think people with GID fight against this? (from what ive read online its common for them to feel disgusted by male anatomy and have no sexual desire at all?) but its a very powerful drive, and ignoring it does not work. After i feel just horrible, and I'm not going to get into this (don't think its the place for it for one) but my thoughts to 'get there' are not what I'd assume is usual for men. I'd like to be rid of this desire... maybe that would help me learn more about myself too?

Another reason is that as late as I am - I want to halt any further effect of testosterone on my body. I don't want more facial hair, or more body hair. If I get to therapy in 6 months? Then have 3 interviews (or more) to assess me, which apparently are 3 months apart, then I'm already over a year away from even getting diagnosed (as GD or not GD). I'm 28 now, and testosterone has likely done most of its damage already. But I'd like to at least feel less anxious about these last few years of my 20s and what further effect it's having on me. Id feel like I was doing 'something'.

So yeah, I'm already taking DHT blockers in the form or Propecia (MPB runs in the family and i got on this ASAP). Bonus of taking a T Blocker would be no need to take this too.

What I don't know, and I'm sure someone will be much better informed on this than I am right now, is what possible issues could arise from having minimal levels of testosterone and nothing else. Other than issues with sex drive (which is fine) and maybe short term sterility? I think that breast growth can be an issue (that's something on the information for side effects of propecia). What I'm assuming though is that mostly I could just come off them and my levels would return back to normal over time?

[Karen564]

T blockers such as the common Spirotone would be part of your hrt..
The Propecia which is a finsteride that blocks the DHT would be an added bonus to the Spiro...
For myself, besides the Spiro, I also take the generic version of dutusteride....aka; brand name Avodart..which also blocks DHT.

[Melody Moore]

Do you think that a GP would prescribe these (T Blockers not HRT) as an interim to treatment for gender issues? Or even as a way to see how one feels, and to help ease some anxiety? Sure, just go to your GP and say that you are a sexual deviate and tell them you want Androcur (http://www.virtualmedicalcentre.com/drugs.asp?drugid=2129&title=Androcur) to reduce your sexual urges.

[Stephenie S]

We are discouraged from discussing meds and dosages here for good reason. Really, the person you should be asking is your PCP.

BUT, hormone therapy (it's not HRT, Hormone Replacement Therapy. That's for natal women. TGs take hormone therapy as they are not "replacing" anything), does NOT make you sterile for some time. You can "try it out" with absolutely NO fear of becoming permanently sterile.

Whew, there are a LOT of myths out there. TGs receive SO much information by word of mouth. Talk to your doctor. If he doesn't know the answers, ask him to find them out.

I would recommend (and I CAN'T "recommend" anything) that you try a low dose of estrogen first. You may find that this alone takes away that horrible angst that so many guys feel from a lifetime of fighting their gender confusion.

Get some gender therapy and decide what you really want to do. But always remember, NONE of this is permanent right up until your surgeon picks up his scalpel. You can ALWAYS change your mind.

Try a "T" blocker first? I dunno. See what your doctor says. Don't EVER be embarrassed. He's gotta know anyway at some point. He/she has to be kept in the loop about your care. I "get" why you want to go this route, but I am not an endocrinologist. I don't know what's best for you. Many endos start their patients on a T blocker first and then add estrogen later, so your feelings aren't out of the ordinary. But this is NOT a medical forum and you are asking serious medical questions that SHOULD be answered by your doctor.

If you see a gender therapist he/she will likely have an endo to recommend you to for further information.

Good luck,

S

[Stephenie S]

"Sure, just go to your GP and say that you are a sexual deviate and tell them you want Androcur to reduce your sexual urges."

LOL. Cute, but no.

Don't lie to your doctor. They have to be aware of your health problems. Be honest.

S

[Melody Moore]

"Sure, just go to your GP and say that you are a sexual deviate and tell them you want Androcur to reduce your sexual urges."

LOL. Cute, but no.

Don't lie to your doctor. They have to be aware of your health problems. Be honest.

S

But Rachel wouldnt lying, she has already made these statements that gave me that indication:


I'd like to curb the 'male libido' too as it were, I think people with GID fight against this? (from what ive read online its common for them to feel disgusted by male anatomy and have no sexual desire at all?) but its a very powerful drive, and ignoring it does not work. After i feel just horrible, and I'm not going to get into this (don't think its the place for it for one) but my thoughts to 'get there' are not what I'd assume is usual for men. I'd like to be rid of this desire... maybe that would help me learn more about myself too?

[Karen564]

What I don't know, and I'm sure someone will be much better informed on this than I am right now, is what possible issues could arise from having minimal levels of testosterone and nothing else. What I'm assuming though is that mostly I could just come off them and my levels would return back to normal over time?

I know for myself, once the T dropped, some of my drive & ambitions went away with the T..
I also felt much weaker & tired for the 1st 9 or so months until my body got used to the spiro, then my energy levels went back up some..but not all the way..
Depending on how long your on the T blockers, for the most part, your present T levels may come back to a certain degree after to stop blocking the T...But the odds of you going sterile will increase the longer your on them... This is something you should ask your doctor about though, because I have no clue as to what your personal medical history is..

[CharleneT]

You will have to ask a doc about the affects of Propecia etc and how long they may persist after you stop taking it. As for the "damage" from testosterone, it is all over now baby blue. Once you are past about 21 there are no more changes. So, you do not need to hurry for that reason. I think your doc is likely to tell you that a human needs either Estrogen or Testosterone for normal healthy living.

[RachelDee]

Sure, just go to your GP and say that you are a sexual deviate and tell them you want Androcur (http://www.virtualmedicalcentre.com/drugs.asp?drugid=2129&title=Androcur) to reduce your sexual urges.

:eek:


We are discouraged from discussing meds and dosages here for good reason. Really, the person you should be asking is your PCP.

....

Oh its ok, I was not going to ask about self medicatin or anything. I just wondered if T Blockers would be an option a GP would consider, because HRT (sorry.. HT) is something that they wont do except once you have been confirmed Gender Dysphoric and start living Full-Time.

I did think that it took some time to become sterile on hormones but some sites I read said that sterility came pretty quickly, long before any other changes. There is a lot of information out there, which is both good and bad. Good because it can help you make better choice, and bad because it can also mislead you into making wrong ones.

Thankyou btw. After i read the information on the NHS site they mentioned that HT could be 'all you needed to feel better' and that you may find you didnt even need to go down the path of gender change after. HOWEVER, when i then researched what actually goes on, they wont even consider HT before you go full-time so what a crock that information was (they need to re-do their site to give people the real grim facts!).

I am not seeing a gender therapist *yet*. I tried to get some help before hand but she told me that she could only refer me directly to a gender clinic in Nottingham. Which requires her to apply for funding! The only thing she said i could do was talk about it with my current therapist (for OCD) and see if it helped.

I shall assume that between waiting for her to get funding, and waiting for the GID clinic to fit me in, im going to be hanging about for about 6 months... in which time im going to be feeling like i am now. Which in itself has caused me to have panic and anxiety attacks (I suppose my GP might at least give me prozac if i asked XD).

I *will* bring it up with her though when i see her in two weeks to confirm her actions. She will likley tell me its the job of the GID clinic and she cant do anything, but, cant hurt discussing it i guess.


I know for myself, once the T dropped, some of my drive & ambitions went away with the T..

Oh i see. Well i guess its no better than taking estrogen itself then in that regard, and infact i guess its worse since there is nothing to replace the T and the jobs it does on regulating your body (in ways other than growing hair and making you randy etc). I will have to give it some thought and bring it up with my GP but she will likley say no considering what you've told me (she isnt going to prescribe something that can still do long term damage without any 'confirmation' on what my mental state is).


You will have to ask a doc about the affects of Propecia etc and how long they may persist after you stop taking it.

Oh i already take that, have for just over a year now.


As for the "damage" from testosterone, it is all over now baby blue. Once you are past about 21 there are no more changes. So, you do not need to hurry for that reason. I think your doc is likely to tell you that a human needs either Estrogen or Testosterone for normal healthy living.

Really? :( oh.

Im sure i had quite a bit less facial hair than i do now (5 years ago when i was 23) which is what made me think. I was told that it would likley 'fill in' in my 30's so i assumed that while most of the changes had taken place during puberty, they continued into your 30's (and maybe 40's?). Then again i suppose i might have been a bit of a 'late developer' puberty wise.

I have the most facial hair on my chin/top lip and slightly down my neck. Its sparse everywhere else. I have practically nothing on my cheeks. Cheek bones have some but not as much as my chin. These are my concerns with any 'passing' i would try to do. They would be instant give aways, and ive been thinking about RLE and how i might like to be getting 'out there' at least partially and experience what its going to be like...

Thanks anyhow. I suppose the only reason to hurry with HT then is to see if the reduction in sex drive is a relief, and it helps resolve any inner conflicts (or if it makes them wors, which would be an indication that transition is probably not for me right?).

[Frances]

You will have to ask a doc about the affects of Propecia etc and how long they may persist after you stop taking it. As for the "damage" from testosterone, it is all over now baby blue. Once you are past about 21 there are no more changes. So, you do not need to hurry for that reason. I think your doc is likely to tell you that a human needs either Estrogen or Testosterone for normal healthy living.

In my experience, changes kept on coming. My body and facial hair ramped up from 21 to 40 (when I started laser and electrolysis). Also, I started developping muscles much easier and unwantedly as I got older. My skin thickened. The hair fell off the top of my head. My pores got bigger. All this was the result of long term exposure to testosterone. The damages were incrementally increasing until I started HRT at 42. Testosterone is a slow-release poison (if you are a woman) that ravages the body relentlessly and exponentially until andropause.

[Dawn D.]

Stephenie S

We are discouraged from discussing meds and dosages here for good reason. Really, the person you should be asking is your PCP.

BUT, hormone therapy (it's not HRT, Hormone Replacement Therapy. That's for natal women. TGs take hormone therapy as they are not "replacing" anything), does NOT make you sterile for some time.

Sorry Stephanie, I just have to respectfully disagree (a little bit). At least in my case. Before I started HRT, my T level was below minimums and dropping. I contracted Osteoporosis and the options available to counter that i.e., Bisphosphonates of any type were not tolerated by my body. Testosterone replacement was not an option either because of an enlarged prostate (BPH). So, in my case HRT is what was necessary, only with Estrogen instead of Testosterone. Once on 'E' for an extended period now (accompanied by diet change, exercise and vitamin D intake, my osteoporosis has waned and I am on the road to recovery! Also, my energy levels have increased (that was noticed almost immediately BTW) back to near normal levels. Also, where I was once thought to have anemia, all blood work shows as completely normal levels.

Not really calling you on this. It's just that in certain cases it can be considered Hormone Replacement Therapy, HRT.

Now about the OP's thread and her question. This is only an opinion and not an effort to direct, diagnose or prescribe.

Having said that, from what I know about hormones and body function. They need to be balanced. If you're female they need to be mostly female (estrogen) and typically very little male (testosterone). And vice-versa for males. The problem for male bodied people comes when testosterone drops significantly, I believe this to be nearly identical for female bodied women also. Usually associated with low energy drive, loss of libido and more seriously, the onset of osteoporosis (bone thinning). I contracted osteoporosis at around the age of 46. It wasn't caught until I was 48!

By attempting to take an androgen blocker alone without the accompanying replacement hormone, and if done so for an extended period, one could possibly set themselves up for a more serious medical condition as described above.

If you're concern is over sterility alone, I feel there are more concerns than just that which you need to research and be aware of. As for the sterility issue though, you could always use a sperm bank for future use.

As with any medical issue, check with your doctor first for the best advice and if not satisfied check with another for a clearer opinion.



Dawn

[Karen564]

In my experience, changes keep on coming. My body and facial hair ramped up from 21 to 40 (when I started laser and electrolysis). Also, I started developping muscles much easier and unwantedly as I got older. My skin thickened. The hair fell off the top of my head. My pores got bigger. All this was the result of long term exposure to testosterone. The damages were incrementally increasing until I started HRT at 42. Testosterone is a slow release poison (if you are a woman) that ravages the body relentlessly and exponentially until andropause.

That was my experience too...As the years went bye, the T kept doing more & more damage to my facial features, my body & my mind, Everything....It really is just as Frances say's " T Is A Poison when you are a woman"

[Stephenie S]

As with any medical issue, check with your doctor first for the best advice and if not satisfied check with another for a clearer opinion.

The ONLY sensible course of action.

Here you will hear only the knowledge of ONE person, filtered through that one person. And however well intention that one person is, it may or may not be applicable to you. That's why we say YMMV, and that's why we say that you should be getting professional help from a doctor, and gender therapist, and your own PCP.

Read the post from Francis. See? She is recounting HER experience, which may be very different from yours.

I DO know that if you live in the UK, and want to do this on the NH, you are gonna wait, and wait, and wait. But it will happen eventually.

I changed physically between 20 and 40. And then some more between 40 and 60. And then some more between 60 and . . . . . . . well, never mind. I believe that testosterone is a continual poison that NEVER stops working. I'm with you, girl! Get rid of it as soon as you can!

But really, stop worrying about sterility. As someone already said, that's the least of your problems. If you want so desperately to become a Dad, maybe it's too soon to transition.

Stephie
!

[Karen564]

Do you think that a GP would prescribe these (T Blockers not HRT) as an interim to treatment for gender issues? Or even as a way to see how one feels, and to help ease some anxiety?

I missed this part in your post, so maybe this may help give you the answer your looking for......My answer to this question above is, Not very likely at all...And the reason for why is stated by Dawn D. , Your body Must have one or the other hormones to function properly, either a larger portion of T or E in order to maintain a state of homeostasis.....So to block all your T, then you must add the E, since your body can't produce enough of it's own to any substantial levels..
It seems that more & more TS girls are starting off on the E 1st, then introduce the T blockers 2nd...which makes perfect sense to me, even though my doctor did it just the opposite with me...
But you could stay on your Procepia without the need to pump E into you & still have an acceptable level of T in your body (of course the only way to confirm this is though blood test to verify what your hormone levels are) , in which it will be lower, but the procepia only blocks the DHT portion, not ALL the T....so that's a compromise...kill off the T that may be advancing your male traits without really feminizing your body to any large degree...
But again, this all must be discussed with your doctor, there may be other long term effects by taking ANY medication for too long..depending on your bodies health.

[RachelDee]

I don't want to be a dad. But of all the information ive read on the internet it says that you need to think of your future, even if you are sure now. lol well by least of my problems, do you mean breast growth? (or all the rest of the transition stuff... because thats a whole heep of least of my worries really....).

I do feel the condition of my skin has become 'poorer' from 23 ~ 28 as well as more facial and body hair growth. I am looking more 'manly' as time goes on. I do *not* want this to continue. That i am sure of. I would also really welcome the decreased libido (as mentioned before), because I think it would help in my understanding of which gender i truly am (because if i find that lower sex drive is an issue for me, and while on the hormones i feel worse, then thats a good indication that this is the wrong path?).

I hope this is not TMI; but i think i need to explain a little more (ill remove this if it breechs any forum policys).

I'm happy, and sure of who i am (I am unhappy as male, I want to be female). Libido kicks in (well builds up) and I start to feel more confused, I feel worse after doing the only thing i can do to satisfy what my body seemingly wants (well i know what it actaully wants i guess? but im not sexually active, never have been.) but its a temp relief from what feels like a building surge of 'maleness'. Things settle down and im back to being sure of who i am again until the cycle repeats. Right now i feel like my T levels must be at their peak. :straightface: It's nasty, and id like it to stop.

^I'm not sure how well of a description that is but thats the best way i could put it i think.

While i would not go as far as to say that this stops me feeling that i want to be female, it does throw in a feeling of 'disgust' that makes me think twice about what it is i want. Once that pass's i feel fine again and sure. However it also has the added side effect of making the whole thing feel 'perverse' -even if its not directly related.

I did try to do some research on this, and I read that this is actually what TV/CD's experience to some degree? And they often 'purge' though i also read that TS can do this too. Anyways, I thought thats what i was, a crossdresser (or transvestite, whichever term you prefer).

But i also realised quickly that, TVs/CDs dont want to actually seek any changes to their gender (not seriously) and nor feel unhappy with it. They are fine with a 'fantasy'.

I am not even 'dressed' right now, because its not been having the same effect. It's a lie, I can wear clothes to fool myself, but it does not change what i actually am :sad:. It feels nasty -being dressed and feeling feminine and fine, then catching a reflection or feeling the roughness on my face. I quickly realise im a man in female clothes and that tanks ones self imagine & mood quite a lot. I dont want to be a man in female clothes, i want to be a female in female clothes (or whatever clothes i want to wear).

This is exactly what happened last time. The dressing ceased to satisfy the feelings. Then i tried to forget and burry it all, it hurt so many people and caused so much confusion that it seemed like no good could come of it. If dressing was not helping, then surley a transition wouldnt either? How could i possibly be any happier with what seemed like a life shattering thing, when it seemed like the very thing that started it was no longer working. It seemed best to just accept what i was, the idea that i could ever transition seemed a distant fantasy, something only other people could do.

Perhaps this is at the core of my confusion. Sorry about the long reply, i tried to make a short one...... :doh:

EDIT:

Thanks Karen564, yes i suppose you are correct. You need one or the other. In which case my GP will im sure point blank refuse because HT/HRT is not something she can do, thats the job of the Gender Clinic, and only once they diagnose Gender Dysphoria and have me start a RLE. It's such a shame they do not do things like they do in the US, it might actually stop people going down the wrong path. If you start RLE and hormones, and decide you are not going down the right path, you have to 'revert' back to being male. From how the clinic proceeds, this would involve changing your name BACK to a male one, and then going back to your male role -- but basically thats a lot harder to do since you've already come out to to everyone and now have this hanging over you.

[Kathryn Martin]

The proper regimen includes Spironolactone, and Finsteride or Dutasteride and finally estrogen.

Spironolactone is a Testosterone blocker and a diuretic that was originally developed to combat high blood pressure. As a result it will depress your blood pressure which in turn makes you feel weaker and more tired etc. (Ihad to stop taking my regular blood pressure medication.)

Finesteride is a Dihydrotestosterone blocker which is metabolized testosterone and is the real culprit when it comes to the workings of testosterone. It also blocks the DHT receptors in the body.

Both of these medications are anti-androgens used in the treatment of prostate conditions like Benign Hypertrophic Prostate (BHP) including cancer. The medications have a significant impact on libido and ability. They are not feminizing but will potentially increase the bodies natural estrogen levels leading to gynecomastia (men boobs) etc.

Estrogen is, well a feminizing hormone.

I doubt it is appropriate to obtain the anti-androgens under false pretenses or that a medical doctor would or should prescribe them unless medically indicated. There is much sense in actually having the psychologist perform a gatekeeper function to ensure that those doing the hormone regimen are ready for what they embark on. But these medication actually can do enormous harm to you quite apart from the feminizing regimen. And some of this harm can be life threatening. So my plea to you is: Please do this the right way.

[RachelDee]

So my plea to you is: Please do this the right way.

Oh don't worry. I will. I am not in a hurry to cause myself more problems in life. :)

[Karen564]

thats the job of the Gender Clinic, and only once they diagnose Gender Dysphoria and have me start a RLE. It's such a shame they do not do things like they do in the US, it might actually stop people going down the wrong path. .


I cant say I know the official process of how it's done in the UK, but I was under the impression you still have X amount of scheduled visits with therapists before any hormones are given ...No?
So they will be prescreening you before anything really gets started, or so I hope they do ...
I did know a few in the UK that skipped the NH clinic altogether & payed for therapists & HRT monitoring privately..before they chose to go overseas for SRS.....So you may wanna think about going for private care route too if you can swing the $$$, because it's not cheap..But some prefer this because it gives them more control over their transition.

PS, WE still have a small amount of girls that go the whole distance, SRS, FSS & then realize after all is said & done wish they didn't take it as far as they did..it's sad but true...so no Way is foolproof, it's solely up to the person contemplating this to be nothing less than Totally honest with themselves & their soul.


:hugs:

[RachelDee]

Yeah i thought i had to see a psychiatrist first before the gender clinic would even accept me (which is what i read on here), and then the GID clinic would do their own screenings.

But she told me they would do their own assessment, and reading the clinics information that consists of about 3+ visits to them at 3 month intervals. I assume they can increase these visits if they feel they have not made up their minds.

Only once they have confirmed Gender Dysphoria will they consider hormones, and then only about 3 months into your RLE. I have to say -I still find that rather daunting. Don't get me wrong, I did not expect any of this to be easy in the slightest (well no perhaps i did after seeing the US side of things). I just thought.... people would transition at their own pace. I guess this is why people go private over here. I doubt id be able to even contemplate this as the cost would be huge.

I am just trying to imagine how id be accepted as female in RLE, by my family, and people outside in any work environment (one of the terms of RLE is a job, full-time course or such) without ANY kind of treatment first. This is basically me, as i am now, going out dressed as female. I can do that myself now..... I do not need support for that (well yeah then again, i would.....) and im not sure why they feel the need to put people through this. I understand that they dont want to make any mistakes and ruin anyones life, but im concerned for my safty, family and social acceptance too. If i look pretty much as i am, presenting as female then people are going to see right through it without hesitation. How is this going to make me feel im on the right path? I cant say ive felt very accepted as 'male' in most social situations so.... I am lible to get into some very difficult situations very easily. Some potentially dangerious ones too.

Hmmmm off i went on a ramble again. Shutting up now.

Anyway, thanks Karen. :hugs:

I am trying to work things out as best i can, and hopefully whichever way this goes i wont regret it. I just need to have faith that things will work out for the best somehow. I do know that id prefer to keep all this 'to myself' until im sure of what it is that im experiencing.

It feels a bit like pandoras box, once its opened its opened. Once people know, its going to be something i have to live with no matter what the outcome.

[Kelly Blaine]

As I have gotten older my testosterone has diminished naturally. I am happy for that.

[StephanieC]

My understanding is that you need either E or T...if you block T, you'll need to compensate somehow

[Hope]

T blockers such as the common Spirotone would be part of your hrt..
The Propecia which is a finsteride that blocks the DHT would be an added bonus to the Spiro...
For myself, besides the Spiro, I also take the generic version of dutusteride....aka; brand name Avodart..which also blocks DHT.

Where are you able to get generic dutusteride in the US?


I doubt it is appropriate to obtain the anti-androgens under false pretenses or that a medical doctor would or should prescribe them unless medically indicated.

Yup.

When my PCP put my on a medication for hypertension over a year ago I asked him about spiro - and there was no prying it from him. No matter how much I begged, or swore I understood the side effects.

The same month, a cis girl friend of mine went to her PCP and got a scrip for spiro just by asking for something to help her deal with a bit of extra body hair...

The moral of the story is that your MD will not prescribe something without a damn good reason. And even then it can be like pulling teeth.

[Loni]

this thread has been hijacked for a question.


first some back ground.

i an 51 a cross dresser, just had my prostrate removed due to cancer. very good health other wise. and have questions that i can not find the answers to.
only looking for input at this time. and if i was to get something it would be through my Dr.

question: other than a Dr is there a easy T-blocker out there that could/might/possibility help to keep a reappearance of the cancer? and maybe even help in the face shaving dept? the cancer in the prostrate is fueled by "T". with some luck it is all gone so would be moot point anyhow, just looking.

my cancer Dr is afraid to even talk about hormones, she is a knife style Dr. so getting ANY info from her is out. i am not looking to change just looking for some answers in my head.

and yes i have read up and many life story's here and there, i realize hormones are not something to be played around with just need ammo so i can talk to my cancer Dr and know what is said.
and not worried about something going into retirement...as it has already. no loss there if the libido is stopped.



we now return you to your ongoing thread.

.

[Jorja]

Sure, just go to your GP and say that you are a sexual deviate and tell them you want Androcur (http://www.virtualmedicalcentre.com/drugs.asp?drugid=2129&title=Androcur) to reduce your sexual urges.

I have been told I am a sexual deviate but that it is a good thing. :D

[Beth-Lock]

I think if you are seeking the T-blocker androcur, you should have it prescribed by a doctor who is prepared to explain all the possible side effects. I took it and it made me depressed, and with other chaotic issues at the time, I almost took my own life. These are serious medications used on an experimental basis for T-women, and not candy.