What's with all the drag queen hate?

[Violetgray]

Ok, so I was visiting the thread entitled "Drag or En Femme?" in which many people express there feelings and opinions on which, if either term they prefer and why. Interesting thread, I was reading with interest, when I saw the following articulated:


I know some define “drag” as dressed-as-a girl, but I define the term to mean caricature, over-statement, ridicule, making fun, over-the-top, laying it on thick, just for laughs, and not making the slightest attempt to “pass” or embrace certain feminine characteristics. By these self-evident definitions, I wish to inform everyone that I spend ZERO time in drag…

And while I hadn't before seen this sentiment articulated in such depth, I have seen it before on this message board.

Honestly, I think that it's an oversimplification of drag queens and somewhat offensive. Let us not forget that within the realm of drag performance there are many different kinds of drag queens. Some are outrageous and cartoonish (Hedda Lettuce, Lady Bunny) and others are making a sincere attempt at artistic expression from a feminine angle (Grae Phillips, Charles Busch,) some are in between (Rupaul, Courtney Act) And some are simply playing a humorous character who happens to be female (Tyler Perry, Barry Humphries) Also, a man who refuses to take himself seriously is a comedian, but if he does so while wearing a dress he's a misogynist?


Let us not forget that the drag queen style of makeup is exaggerated in part because they were stage performers, so that their features can be seen from stage. You'll find that GG showgirls in Las Vegas can be quite similar in terms of makeup.

Also, Drag queens have been on the front lines of many a struggle for equal treatment. While most cd's where firmly in the closet, it was drag queens who were out and about challenging the status quo and being locked up over and over, and getting into brawls at the StoneWall. Also, it's the drag houses that provided shelters and support for many gay and transsexual children whose parents had kicked them out of the house and had nowhere else to go. Drag Queens Spend lots of money buying and creating outfits,singing, lipsynching, acting, doing standup comedy, learning makeup and choreographing routines, and I refuse to believe that they do all that to mock women.

To be fair, I don't like the sentiment among some drag queens that cd's are nothing more that "Straight men who wear their wives' panties at night." That's just as much an unfair dismissal. But those who call drag an insult to womanhood should remember that there are people who say the same thing about YOU. Some of those people we are married to.

[Barbara Dugan]

Very good point Violet:thumbsup: I really don't get it either

[GaleWarning]

But those who call drag an insult to womanhood should remember that there are people who say the same thing about YOU. Some of us are married to them.

This is very true ... but it goes further than that.
There are people who say that ALL cders are an insult to womanhood.

[Karren H]

I think Drag Queens are amazing and over the top and very talented in what they do... I just don't want to be one.. No hate involved...

[Rhonda Jean]

I hope I'm not one of the ones you're referring to. No hate here. I'm just not a drag queen. My "feminine expression" is not a stage show. Not that there's anything wrong with it being, it's just not for me. Doesn't make me better, that's just the way it is.

[Chickhe]

Hate? no. Admire, yes. They do amazing things with their makeup, check out youtube. As a CDer, the difference to me is heavy paint and character vs. blending to appear female. We can learn from each other, but it is not exacly the same thing.

[msginaadoll]

Well I have always said I respect and admire Drag Queens as artist. Heck I try to pick there brains for makeup and dressing tips. I wouldnt mind doing a drag show if I ever had the guts. I Think they are beautiful!!!

[Annette_boy]

I agree with Violet . We should not be at each others throats ,IMO the drag Queens were the pioneers who blazed the trail for us CD/TG/TS and the Gay comunity as well .They were the targets because they were visable.They indeed do amazing things with make up and costume .I could never be one because I am not a talented performer.

Yes there are all degrees of Drag just like CD .We are both alike and different and should be supporting each other .There are to many folks out there who hate us all for us to divide up and continue to be our Own Worst Enemies .Our own fears have kept us down far to long and pervented us from reaching our comfort level on our journey to where ever it is this path takes us.

Forgive the length and rambling nature of this but I had to say something

Hugs Annette

[Xandria]

the queens around where i live.. all are over exaggerating the "female" look and act very cliquey, no hate from me though.. they do what they do and i do what i do :)

to the OP - good post indeed

[Nicole Erin]

They are entertainers.
I don't hate them.
Granted they are gay men who dress as exaggerated women, but I have not problems, as stated, they do their thing, I do mine.

[Violetgray]

Just to clarify a bit, saying that you are not like drag queens in some fundamental way is not the same as condemning them. It's condemning them all in one group that I would find to be hypocritical.

[JulieK1980]

I hate no group of people. I dislike particular individuals in many different groups though. :P

[Danni Bear]

They are entertainers.
I don't hate them.
Granted they are gay men who dress as exaggerated women, but I have not problems, as stated, they do their thing, I do mine.

Erin,

While most are GAY men, not all are.

Hate is a strong adjective to use to describe the emotions arising from DRAG QUEEN. For many the over the top antics appear as a slap in the face of what they project in their own appearence. Others see Drag Queens as performers only.

Truth of the matter, it falls somewhere between those two extremes. Drag Queens and Drag Kings are entertainers who use exagerated versions of feminity and masculinity to please an audience during a show. Do they deserve respect and admiration for this? Do they deserve villification?
The answer to both is no. Their performance is worthy of respect, and not villification. Their personal lives and gender repsentations outside of their stage personas are as personal as anyone elses. Respect the person even if you dislike the show.

Danni

[Lucy_Bella]

I don't hate in general .....I don't like anyone except family..lol and even some of them. I don't like.. But just because I am not comfortable around them doesn't give me the right to be outspoken.. Hey I have glass in my windows too.. I seen my first Drag show a few months back..No I wasn't impressed and looks like a hell of a hard living.. I hear some even wear 8 pair of panyhose to get the female shape, thats a painfull thought..!

I respected them for having the courage to go in front of the crowd and do what they do, so even if I wasn't impressed it doesn't mean I won't go to another show. These are people and they should not be hated for what they believe in as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else.. Maybe the hate is just jealousy..

[darla_g]

i agree with many of the points stated in this thread. the Drag Queen style is just one i don't wish to emulate.

[Lucy_Bella]

I hate to say it.....but Divine really but the knife in the drag Queen world for me...

[Kelly DeWinter]

A TG has finely become a woman, when they hate and gossip and envy the prettiest girls in school.

Kelly





P.S. this was just levity, i'm not serious.

Who does'nt love a drag queen ?

[Kaz]

Drag Queens, as I understand the term, are male to female impressionist performers who work to pretty much established rules? i.e it is an industry?

I certainly see myself as a male to female impersonator/impressionist... I just do it on my own terms.

I admire what the drag people people do. It is art, media, performance, etc..

I dress up as Kaz... it is impressionism... I am a female impersonator... But when I stop is it the end of a gig or something else?

I hate leaving Kaz and becoming K... it is actually traumatic.

A Drag Queen, as a pro performer will simply demaq and become their "real" personna. It is an act.

So... the questions are... when did you last see CDing as a "job" - you do what it says on the tin.

Or do you see Cding as a different issue?

Kaz xx

[audreyinalbany]

well, 'drag queen' is a descriptor of a certain type of performer who presents as the opposite gender. No problem. I don't think that what of us do here is considered 'performance,' it's just us being us. While I agree that many, many, many drag queens are exceptionally talented, I think to apply that moniker to crossdressers and transgender individuals is somewhat perjorative. Just my opinion. As I said in the other thread, I don't especially like the term 'tranny' either although I'm sure there are plenty on here who have no problem with it.

[Marissa]

Violet, there is not a mean bone in my body..so all I state is just what it is..my opinion with room to grow. If someone was to ask me "What is a drag queen?"..my answer..an entertainer that exaggerates the persona of a woman, normally in makeup and breasts. His voice may be fem but it comes down to grasping an audience to entertain in jokes and stories of all types.

Nowadays, some drag queens (known mostly to be gay and do this for work/entertainment) have gone further to get breast implants or other work to perfect the illusion of who they portray.

Okay..Is a Drag Queen a Cd? ..no.. one does it to perform..one does it to fulfill a desire of being.. Can a Drag Queen be both??? Yes..

But in the end..one can not state any words of ill found.. we all are who we are..and in the midst of the world..we are a minority..

Hope this all makes sense..that I don't hate..dont' think bad or ill fated..of a Drag Queen..I see them as performers.. If they are being more then that..I see them as a CD or TS..up to them..

No hate here..

Hugs,
Marissa

[sherri]

Violet, I just can't really relate to or enjoy the whole DQ thing, but you state your case very well. And even though we mere CDs sometimes suffer some prejudice at the hands of the queens, as you mentioned, there's no real gain in responding in kind. Just because I find drag shows ridiculous doesn't mean I have to be judgmental and mean-spirited. But I would like to mention one pet peeve -- I wish DQs weren't so profane in their performances. I get really tired of all the "bitch" this and "MFer" that, and think too many of them fall back on vulgarity in place of real wit to get a laugh. Jmho.

[Suzette Muguet de Mai]

Crikey, I wish Danny LeRue was alive and could comment. I admired his acting as brilliance, and the LesGirls troupe as a very classy group. Sigh, to be like him and have his elegance, yes ..sigh. I do not hate Drag Queens. I respect them as entertainers and may not agree with some performances or performers but I am entitled to my opinion. For me, I try to do makeup well and present myself as convincing as I can as a MTF person. Label me what ever you want, but I do not hate Drag Queens. Don't be too quick to judge Drag Queens, watch some of their videos and realize that it is their job as entertainers. I would love to learn their make-up hints and costume fittings because they know how, I am learning. Just watched some videos of Danny LaRue and I could die for some of his evening gowns and I missed the sale of his wardrobe early this year. If I am guilty of hatred, it is getting old. I hate getting old. Respect yes, I respect Drag Queens.

[Loni]

i do not hate drag queens. i am just not one. i do believe it takes talent and fortitude to do the job they do. pulse it helps if one can act.
i could not act my way out of a wet paper sack.
just please do not post a label on me, but if one must, post me as a cross dresser. some have thought i am in transition. (aka) a transsexual, i am not even bisexual. let alone a homosexual...but if i were to do a gender change then i would be a lesbian. but then this is talk about on one's sexual interest not about a drag queen.
to me a drag queen is a performer, most likely gay, or bi. but it is a job for them. and they do it good. better than i can.

[Christinedreamer]

This is why I make the distinction between drag queens and female impersonators. I do not care for (but do not hate) most of the "out there" drag queens as they are what gets the media attention and is the impetus for a great deal of anti LGBT sentiment. The vanilla world lumps us all together and usually cannot or does not feel obliged to make any separation. This is the same situation with TV shows that make meager attempts to write a crime show that involves a CD as a child molester or depraved lunatic with a murderous streak. They do the same to Christian characters- all nut cases fanatics in the shows.

If you watch the news coverage of the Pride parades, what does the media (and the general public) focus on? The campy clownish drag queens and the leather boys in butt-less chaps and harnesses.

I go into vanilla chat rooms a lot that are only tailored to an age group with no other theme. I use a pink font because I like pink. When some asks why pink I tell them I like it and I am a CD. From some, that elicits a major tirade of gay, fa**ot, f.. packer comments from the neanderthal knuckle draggers and some GGs as well. Others take the time to ask questions and I always answer truthfully and as such have developed a nice group of on line friends. It takes a long time to explain to some that as a CD that does NOT necessarily mean I am gay, which as we all know is seldom the case. They have already made the assumption that I MUST be. Then they relate stories of drag queens they have seen.

I have heard a LOT of comments over the years not only on line but in my line of work providing audio video equipment for meetings and conventions about the silly looking drag queens and the drop dead gorgeous female impersonators. In my experience, the general public regards the OTT drag queens as they do Ronald McDonald. Performers like Grae Phillips or Kenny Kerr in Vegas though are applauded and appreciated.

Ever notice that you rarely see drag kings looking like clowns? Drag queens, very much so.

[Julogden]

Hi Violet,

Well said, I agree. Drag queens are part of our community and have been on the front lines for a long time.

Thanks for posting that,
Carol

[Christy_M]

I have to admit, I think there is a lot of good that has come from Drag Queens for our community. While I don't ever want to look like a Drag Queen for personal reasons I fear that that is just what the general public sees when they see me en femme. I try not to be over the top with my clothes or make-up but I think the reality is that people see transgendered people as "Drag Queens/Kings." I wrote a response to a post about trying not to offend by using the term "Drag" for being en femme since I thought it was rather inocuous meaning DResses As Girl which I do. The link to Drag Queen I can get behind so won't use the term anymore. One of my favorite Drag Queens was RuPaul until she went way over the top the past 6 or 7 years. I couldn't tell you another name to save my life. Certainly no hate from my end. Also, no admiration for any one individual. I do admire the pioneers for making a stand and continuing to fight for those of us who are too scared to step very far out of our closets to force society to interact with us.

For those of you TG folks who pass, I commend you on excellent work. For those of us who don't, at the very least, we present an opportunity for people to talk about us behind our backs. Some people have enough self confidence to not worry about this behavior and go on about their lives just being comfortable with themselves. Again, I commend you on your courage and self acceptance. Others don't want anyone to know or find out or even figure it out becasue of the personal perception of what we are doing. Regardless of whether we know the people or not, it plays very well against self doubt, self loathing and low self esteem.

Now, of course this is only my opinion and I am not trying to tell people how they feel about themselves. These are merely my perceptions driven solely by my interactions and experiences. I think this was a great OP and certainly creates a lot of view points that will further shape my future opinions, so thank you Violet, for that.

[Misti]

You have provided all of us with a very thought provoking, plus a well-written and articulated post, Violet. Very thoughtful, indeed, as I notice that there is only two (2), repeat 2, that is, previous to this post, posters that has joined the forum in 2010? Very thoughtful, indeed... Um! I've got the think about that. Hugs to all, Misti

[JustineFallow]

Drag queens rock! I envy them not just for the obvious reasons (e.g. most have forgotten more about make-up than I'll ever know), but mostly because they're so outgoing and confident, qualities in which I've always been quite deficient.

[Kate Simmons]

This is basically what happens when some think of others as labels rather than people.:straightface:

[Crissy Kay]

IMO Drag Queens are part of the reason crossdressing has a bad rep.

[Cynthia GG]

When I read biographies about professional drag queens and female impersonators, there are often accounts of them trying on mother’s or sisters’ clothes in childhood – something I also see in accounts of many CDers at this site who are not public performers. Therefore, I would guess that there’s a lot of common ground, even when aims and approaches are different.

[Sarah Doepner]

Violet,

I understand what you are getting at here and would hope that my comments in that thread are not seen as being "hate", but just an observation about perceptions. The public perception of Drag is the over the top, heavily made up, top-heavy wigged performer. That performer's motive or feminine self perception may or may not be the same as mine, but whatever it is, it is buried under the surface to meet the needs of performance. From my point of view, it seems that often the Drag community is seen by the general public as representing the entire crossdressing community. When that happens, those of us who attempt to project a mainstream female appearance have to be defined by other criteria and unfortunately all too often it falls to the sexual preversion world in their eyes. We know that isn't the case, but as long as the Drag Queens are the focus, it creates an extra hurdle we need to get over if we want to be accepted, let alone understood.

TV news learned long ago that "if it bleeds, it leads", meaning the more extreme the situation or behavior the more likely it will be covered. Crossdressers happily shopping or getting a bite to eat without bothering anyone never gets the kind of public recognition that an accomplished Drag preformer can. Maybe we are jealous, but I wouldn't be surprised to discover that instead of hate, what you are seeing is frustration. A lot of this may also be related to how we preceive and classify ourselves. I'm sure if I started telling people I was a Drag Queen they would be disappointed by my extreme lack of flair and style, so in deference to that I consider myself to be a crossdresser.

[Violetgray]

IMO Drag Queens are part of the reason crossdressing has a bad rep.

I don't think this is true to any significant extent. Sure, some Drag Queens much like some stand-up comics like to find the line and push it, and sometimes their tendency to flirt with the obscene can be seen as offensive.

But crossdressers are seen as weirdos because of society's rigid gender expectations, not because of drag queens. If you come out to your SO and she reacts negatively, it's not because the thinks that you've been sneaking to clubs and getting on stage behind her back and lipsynching. People dislike us because they think we are fetishy perverts wearing lace teddies under our work clothes.

[Tima]

But those who call drag an insult to womanhood should remember that there are people who say the same thing about YOU.

You’re lifting words out of context and over-exaggerating (a drag characteristic?) to make a point about a heated subject. I’ve been following this discussion for several days, and I think you’re completely missing the point. This whole argument began because the word “drag” was used as a synonym for crossdressing, and that needed to be corrected – the person in question explained the reasoning (a personal definition) behind the term, which led to further meaningful discussion, case closed. Frankly, I prefer the latter type of verbiage to the pontificating that some members engage in around here (see the OP). I don’t find your prose to be the least bit eloquent or welcome; in fact it’s downright condescending.
:straightface:

Since you brought it up, you may be interested to know that from my perspective as a MtF crossdresser, female impersonation hasn’t done much good in terms of educating the clueless public about the inexplicable urge some males have to wear women’s clothing. Has a drag queen/artist/performer ever tried to “pass” like a more restrained crossdresser desires to, and fit into society without drawing attention? Difficult to do when you’re cranking the overkill to maximum, isn’t it? Thanks to drag and it’s proliferation through movies and television, this exaggeration has become the poster child of crossdressing – as long as the public can clearly see that it’s all a show, meant purely for laughs, and not to be taken seriously, they will begrudgingly accept a man dressed as a woman now and then. Thanks a lot, drag! Now I can’t walk down the street without creating a connection in people’s minds that is completely at odds with the mindset, and the physical appearance, that is so carefully cultivated by certain MtF crossdressers who simply wish to be non-male (like myself).

I don’t expect YOU to understand this, since you’re living in a different world. I don’t have a public to entertain, nor do I have a career that relies on a gimmick. Pardon me, but I don’t know exactly what you ARE, either. I assume you’re the self-appointed mouthpiece for drag, so I’ll take this chance to speak my mind about this polarizing subject. If I’m passionately out of line, it’s because of this misuse of the word drag – by all means do what you do, but stop to consider the effect it’s had on others, OK? Personally, I think you’re talking down to us, using this opportunity to deliver a cheap shot and proudly proclaim the “achievements” of your profession.

I’m only trying to make this point: DRAG and MtF crossdressing are two separate entities, and let’s keep them apart. When does drag become crossdressing? Exactly when the ridiculous changes to the serious, and when impersonation turns into integration or incorporation, no “costume” required. Tell me – how can a closeted MtF crossdresser insult “womanhood” when he’s actively engaged in embracing this mythical state for his own pleasure? It’s NOT a show for us shy types, you know. There is no drag queen HATE going on, just continuing disappointment about these needless misconceptions heaped upon the public and ourselves BY ourselves.
:sad:

[msginaadoll]

I think it is funny and sad how the transgender community can turn on itself. It is clear that some crossdressers are not happy being lumped in with drag queens. I do understand all of us have our opinions. As long as at the end of the day we respect each other I guess I can deal with it!

[renee k]

I think it is funny and sad how the transgender community can turn on itself. It is clear that some crossdressers are not happy being lumped in with drag queens. I do understand all of us have our opinions. As long as at the end of the day we respect each other I guess I can deal with it!


Spot on Gina!!

Let's let it go and move on. I hate labels!

Renee

[Cassidy]

As I read through this thread I couldn't help but chuckle. Don't misunderstand the word chuckle as there were many good points made. The chuckle came from me as I though about the various arguments made by cruiser motorcycle afficianatos about sport motorcycle riders and of course vice versa. In the motrocycle world it boils down to they're both motorcycles and the important thing is both groups ride. In the CD/Drag world the important thing is each group expresses itself in a manner that is pleasing to their mind's eye. The important thing to remember is 'divided we fall.' In one form or another we are all in this together.

[Lorileah]

I will have to disagree with some of the comments about drag queens here. They may have been front line for some causes (AIDs, DOMA) but they don't fight for TG rights in general, they are often fighting for gay rights (and since the majority here make it a special point to say "I am NOT gay" we don't fight for them either). And as noted in one post, the DQ's here in Denver are very cliquish. A few of them make TG's look bad by really acting as the public EXPECTs them to act (blatant sexuality and public indecency) and that is the front that everyone sees. So as not to paint them with a broad bad brush, they can be both helpful (raising money for good causes) and unhelpful (the fact that they DO tend to be over the top and that is what the public sees). They often reinforce the things we don't want the public to think about us (loud, garish, in your face, over sexed and rude). I see the over the top DQ's as the same as other minorities had with certain caricatures of what our group really is. TG's are just like other people yet ask any person who is not part of "our" community about what they think of when you say "transvestite" and they will point out "Frankenfurter", RuPaul (How many of you have that DIVA attitude?) or the clowns or social misfits ( perverts or criminals). Can you name a TG who has brought a positive light to our community?

My point is do we want the garish over the top to represent us? I don't hate drag performers in general. I don't hate any group in general, but I don't care for them "representing" me and especially when they do it as sexual freaks and really bad caricatures of women.

[JulieK1980]

This whole debate seems really fruitless to me. We are all very different, and share only a desire to wear women's clothes. Beyond that, the similarities tend to disappear. We can argue back and forth about whether Drag Queens are fighting for our rights, or not, or if they are misrepresenting us or not, or (insert another polarizing argument here.) But at the end of the day, it's pointless, aside for maybe a way for people to vent.

To me it's perceived as one group belittling another group for being "different" or "not representative" of the whole group. That, (again, IMO) is rather sad coming from a larger group that already is cast aside from mainstream society FOR being different.

Is it truly beneficial for us as a whole to take issue with Drag Queens because they are different than us? After all, we ALL do this for different reasons. Just because the motivation is different, does NOT mean its not valid.

[Violetgray]

You’re lifting words out of context and over-exaggerating (a drag characteristic?) to make a point about a heated subject. I’ve been following this discussion for several days, and I think you’re completely missing the point. This whole argument began because the word “drag” was used as a synonym for crossdressing, and that needed to be corrected – the person in question explained the reasoning (a personal definition) behind the term, which led to further meaningful discussion, case closed. Frankly, I prefer the latter type of verbiage to the pontificating that some members engage in around here (see the OP). I don’t find your prose to be the least bit eloquent or welcome; in fact it’s downright condescending.
:straightface:

I understand that you feel strongly about this, but the vast majority of your post is based on a misunderstanding. I do not dispute that there are differences between what drag is and what cd'ers do. My post was concerning the things said about drag queens that I think are unfair. These are completely seperate issues to me, which is precisely why I decided start my own thread, rather than highjack the existing one.



Since you brought it up, you may be interested to know that from my perspective as a MtF crossdresser, female impersonation hasn’t done much good in terms of educating the clueless public about the inexplicable urge some males have to wear women’s clothing. Has a drag queen/artist/performer ever tried to “pass” like a more restrained crossdresser desires to, and fit into society without drawing attention? Difficult to do when you’re cranking the overkill to maximum, isn’t it? Thanks to drag and it’s proliferation through movies and television, this exaggeration has become the poster child of crossdressing – as long as the public can clearly see that it’s all a show, meant purely for laughs, and not to be taken seriously, they will begrudgingly accept a man dressed as a woman now and then. Thanks a lot, drag! Now I can’t walk down the street without creating a connection in people’s minds that is completely at odds with the mindset, and the physical appearance, that is so carefully cultivated by certain MtF crossdressers who simply wish to be non-male (like myself).

Have drag queens ever tried to 'pass' rather than being outrageous? Of COURSE they have. Let's not forget that drag queens each have their own personalities, and creative expression can vary greatly. Let's also not forget that not all drag queens are gay men in drag. many are TS's. Calpernia Addams has worked very hard at having a respectable female image, and has done much to help others do the same. While in many ways drag can be a double edged sword, the frequency of society's exposure to drag queens in the public eye can have a humanising effect. It's harder to judge people harshly when you see them with the same wants, needs, goals and fears that all humans have in common.




I don’t expect YOU to understand this, since you’re living in a different world. I don’t have a public to entertain, nor do I have a career that relies on a gimmick. Pardon me, but I don’t know exactly what you ARE, either. I assume you’re the self-appointed mouthpiece for drag, so I’ll take this chance to speak my mind about this polarizing subject. If I’m passionately out of line, it’s because of this misuse of the word drag – by all means do what you do, but stop to consider the effect it’s had on others, OK? Personally, I think you’re talking down to us, using this opportunity to deliver a cheap shot and proudly proclaim the “achievements” of your profession.

Hmm.. So you think that i'm lashing out at CD's on behalf of drag queens, like an us vs. them kinda thing? No, even though I do stand-up comedy en femme (for the past year out of seven years total) I don't consider myself a drag queen. Lipsyncing holds no entertainment value for me whatsoever, and I've been dressing since I was 6, long before I even considered any form of entertainment, so if anything I'm a t-girl who one day decided to be open about it on stage. But I can be objective to a fault, though, and what I have stated in the original post I offer as an alternate perspective, not necessarily as fact.




I’m only trying to make this point: DRAG and MtF crossdressing are two separate entities, and let’s keep them apart. When does drag become crossdressing? Exactly when the ridiculous changes to the serious, and when impersonation turns into integration or incorporation, no “costume” required. Tell me – how can a closeted MtF crossdresser insult “womanhood” when he’s actively engaged in embracing this mythical state for his own pleasure? It’s NOT a show for us shy types, you know. There is no drag queen HATE going on, just continuing disappointment about these needless misconceptions heaped upon the public and ourselves BY ourselves.
:sad:

This final paragraph is excellent in showing how you may have misinterpreted my post, when I brought up the fact that some people considering cd'ing an insult to womanhood, it's not to hurt your feelings, but to remind us not to judge unfairly, because WE are judged unfairly. And once again, your sweeping generalizations don't apply. I listed the things that drag queens have done not to make anyone feel bad, but to remind us that drag does not equal misogyny and disrespect.

When I made the OP, I expected people to say "yeah, Drag Queens are alright." or "Boo, I don't like drag queens." What didn't expect was that someone would think that I was striking a blow FOR drag queens against cd's.

[Janice Lester]

Wow, I was surprised at my reaction to reading this thread. Certainly we all have our opinions, but I thought Violet's original point was don't lump groups of people together.

I'll just make a couple of quick points. In another thread today I mentioned a documentary called "Paris is burning" it was made at the end of the 80's in NY(goodness I'm getting old), if you get a chance to see it you'll see that Drag performers are just as diverse as the reset of the world in what they see as Drag.

The major argument against Drag Queens, who I admit I find fascinating. Is that they give "us" a bad name in the public's eye, really? Its been years since I've seen a drunk driver who gets in the paper considered to represent all of those who consume alcohol, oh wait I've never seen that. I know the retort to that will be its not the same. Actually its exactly the same.

In the 80's when people were dying in droves from Aids and the public at large and the US government in particular largely ignored it, one of the major groups that forced people to pay attention was an organization you've surely heard of "Act Up"?

I remember my reaction at the time, I thought oh man this can't be good for gays as a group because they are shining an unflattering light on them as a group. Well a close friend who was and is gay. Told me that society moves slowly and it won't move at all if there isn't someone on the fringe screaming at the top of their lungs that something has to change. He was completely right, I'm positive that in my life we will have gone from police being applauded for busting gays heads to seeing same sex marriage being legal across the land.

I realize I got a little off topic here but scapegoating anyone to accuse them of putting cross-dressers in a bad light really gets me upset.