Toilet situation

[Ross]

Im now dressd 24/7 changed my name and driving licence and going on hormones. You most probably been ask this question loads of time sorry but in the uk am I allowed to use the lady's room with out being arrested, I would use the disable toilet but they are always locked and i don't want to use the mens room so far I have been ok and waited until I got home but one day I might not be so lucky, thanks for any help.

[renee k]

I don't know if there's a specific law in the UK, being that I live in the states. My answer as it always has been. Is use the restroom of the gender your presenting in. With all the changes that you've gone through. I wouldn't think there would be a problem.

Renee

[Stephenie S]

Dear Ross,

What's your problem? You say you have proper ID? Proper DL? What could possibly go wrong? Are you a women? Or are you a man dressed in women's clothes using the lady's for the nefarious purpose of spying on women while they do their business? Come on dear, get real. If you're NOT a woman, what are you fooling around with transition for? If you ARE a woman then you have every right to be there.

If you are questioned (which won't happen, BTW), just whip out your DL and smile. Did you think that maybe you will get a crotch check by the bathroom police? No. That doesn't happen.

But what you REALLY want is to not get questioned at all, right? Then SMILE. Smile at the other women. Smile while you wait in line because all the stalls are full. Smile. You don't have to chat, just smile and nod. And don't forget to wash your hands after. Women ALWAYS wash. We are MUCH more fastidious than men.

I know this can be a big deal, hon, but don't over think it. Just do it. If all you say is true, you HAVE to use the lady's. The men's room would be totally inappropriate at this point.

Don't forget to smile.

S

[Melody Moore]

My drivers licence shows me as a female, so I will always use the Ladies. If there ever is any issues where someone dares to challenge me, including an officer of the law then they will get my licence shoved straight in their face. To expect a transsexual female to use the Men's toilets is totally unacceptable because of the high risk of violence and sexual assault. If someone discriminates your right to use the appropriate toilet to suit your gender (http://www.equalityhumanrights.com/advice-and-guidance/your-rights/gender/sex-discrimination-as-a-consumer/), then it becomes a very serious Human Rights issue (http://www.equalityhumanrights.com/about-us/vision-and-mission/our-business-plan/transgender-equality/).

[Ross]

Thank you for the input I just needed reassurance I am going to use the ladys room with a smile

[Rianna Humble]

There was a question about this when I was planning my transition at work, the reply by the head of HR summed it up for me.

"Rianna will be coming in to work as a woman, she is entitled to use the same facilities as every other woman in the office"

Incidentally, I was having difficulties getting into the Ladies loo at a station and they dispatched a female member of staff to help me get in.

[Deborah_UK]

From a police officer on the Northern Concord website - "The usage of toilets whilst out dressed should not be a problem as there is no legislation or legal requirement that state people are required to use toilets according to their birth gender".

Please do not use the disabled loo - unless you are disabled.

[Stephenie S]

"Please do not use the disabled loo - unless you are disabled. "

This is a VERY good point. Someone who actually IS disabled might need to go while you are using it for convenience.

[Ross]

Thank you all for the input I am going to use the ladys room with out to much worry ,you all been so helpful

[Emma England]

This question yet again?

[Ross]

Well I'm new to all this I know nothig my journey has only just started. I bottled all my feelings up for 43 years.

[Felicity71]

I still have a male drivers licence. I wont use female toilets yet. Its risky but I dont want to get arrested.

I also have social anxiety disorder called paruresis. It is basically a type of phobia of urinating around other people. So i virtually never use public toilets, its far too stressful.

[Danni Bear]

This question yet again?

Yes Emma, Yet again and probably even more times as new members arrive and ask. LOL

Danni

[Rianna Humble]

I bottled all my feelings up for 43 years.

I can relate to this. I sometimes think that some members here forget what it was like for them at the start. There is nothing wrong with asking a question that is important to you - even if it was asked a few years (/months/weeks) ago.

Incidentally, going back to your original post, your gender dysphoria doesn't make you physically disabled, so it would be wrong for someone to insist you use the disabled toilet. You are a woman now, so you are entitled to use the women's facilities. I like your statement that you will use the facilities with a smile. Be natural and you will not have any problems. And don't be afraid if someone talks to you whilst you are in there - that is one of the nicest differences I have noticed between the Men's room and the Ladies' room.

[Traci Elizabeth]

Using the ladies room is actually a non-issue if you are dressed as a woman. Now, if you are still sporting a mustache, beard, or both and have a buzzed haircut but just dressed in female clothes, I'd be inclined to keep a "pee" bottle in my car.

[Felicity71]

Using the ladies room is actually a non-issue if you are dressed as a woman. Now, if you are still sporting a mustache, beard, or both and have a buzzed haircut but just dressed in female clothes, I'd be inclined to keep a "pee" bottle in my car.
I know of a person here in brisbane that has a full beard and very thick eyebrows who wears a dress and goes into the female toilets, this person is taking hormones but will not shave off.

[Ross]

Thank you Rianna for your suport, The thread was clearly marked about toilet situation so if people don't want to read my thread why not go to the next thread they do have a choice what to read.

[Aprilrain]

The way I got over this was to use the restroom at a deserted park. I know it sounds stupid but I had to get over my anxiety about what other people might think so I went somewhere were there weren't any people. Later that day I went to the mall and it was pretty empty to so I went there and a couple of other minimally populated places. About a week later I went on an 8 hour road trip and used rest stops the whole way to my destination and back. One was quite crowded, no line but a lot of women, all of whom were like 80 years old, four feet tall, wearing elastic waist band jeans and blue blockers so I definitely stuck out in my skirt.

[Ross]

Just been told if I use the ladys room at work I could get the the sack , but they are going to ask head office if I can use them legally.

[Rianna Humble]

Just been told if I use the ladys room at work I could get the the sack , but they are going to ask head office if I can use them legally.

If you have started your RLE, then they are breaking the law if they discriminate against you - that includes access to the ladies loos.

Section 13 (1) of the Equalities Act 2010 states that
A person (A) discriminates against another (B) if, because of a protected characteristic, A treats B less favourably than A treats or would treat others.

In denying you access to the loos of your adopted gender, your employer would be in direct contravention of this clause.

[Nigella]

Ross. just one question

Have you informed your employer that you are a transsexual? UK law does not permit anyone to discriminate against a transgendered person, irrespective of their mode of dress/presentation at any given time.

The only stipulation is that you are going through or intend to go through transition to live your life in the gender that is opposite to your birth gender. You only have to make this known, you do not have to be under medical supervision.

More information can now be found if you google Equalities Act 2010.

[Ross]

yes my employer know every think about me they even had to change my name to Mrs Lisa Ross, my wage slip has my new name on it they took a cpoy of my new driving licence,they also know that im waiting for a letter for my GP so I can go on hormones.

[Nigella]

In that case Ross, you are fully protected under the Equalities Act. That protection covers you in all aspects of your life, which means, in response to your original question, you are entitled to use all facilites that are designated for the female gender, irrespective of where they are.

[Melody Moore]

Just been told if I use the ladys room at work I could get the the sack, but they are going to ask head office if I can use them legally.
First of all your employer has already seriously discriminated against you already by threatening you this way. You only have to respond to them and say.... 'I know my rights and if you dismiss me from my employment because I am exercising my full legal right under the Equalities Act 2010 to use the appropriate toilet to suit my true gender, then you will leave me little choice but to take further legal action on the grounds of a human rights violation and unfair dismissal'.

Ross, if they sacked you over this, it would be one of the worst mistakes your employer could ever make. This type of discrimination by your employer would be twice as worse than discriminating against another transgendered member of the general public because they would commit another violation of your statutory employment rights to dismiss you unfairly.

See: http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employment/RedundancyAndLeavingYourJob/Dismissal/DG_10026692


Dismissal for exercising your statutory employment rights

If your employer dismisses you for exercising or trying to exercise one of your statutory (legal) employment rights you will have been automatically unfairly dismissed.
An employees statutory employment rights include a right to: not to be discriminated against because of your gender, race, disability, religion or belief, sexual orientation or age

[Ross]

I'm so glad I joined this forum you are all so friendly and helpful, now I know where I stand thanks for all the info I will now try again

[Ross]

I have been talking to my boss today, im now allowed to use the ladys toilets, they investagated online and discovered they had no option but to allow me to use them and no one can stop me.

[Rianna Humble]

Glad they found this out for themselves. It makes it so much simpler when you don't have to tell them their job.

[Nigella]

Ross, I certainly don't think much of your HR department, someone in there, whether it is at your place of work or elsewhere, should have known they were in the doo doo if they continued on the path they set themselves on.

I wonder what else they are doing that they shouldn't :angry:

[Melody Moore]

Ross, I certainly don't think much of your HR department, someone in there, whether it is at your place of work or elsewhere, should have known they were in the doo doo if they continued on the path they set themselves on.

I wonder what else they are doing that they shouldn't :angry:
Anyone in business today best get educated into Human rights issues or they face possible legal action for discrimination - these guys sound like total morons to not have already been aware of these types of issues. Recently I had an couple of enrolment interview with an Employment Agency and they quite openly informed me I was their first ever transgendered client and were not sure of anti-discrimination laws etc. My case worker is a lovely lady who is willing to help me in the best way that she can, so I told her I would get some information to help them understand how to support with transgendered clients. So I delivered 3 information booklets at my last interview called Supporting Transgender Clients that will now be used for staff education. She also asked me if I would come in and speak to their staff at a training seminar on these matters. I told her that I would only be too happy to. I can see myself doing a lot more of this work now in the future for other businesses. :)

[Stephanie Anne]

Anyone in business today best get educated into Human rights issues or they face possible legal action for discrimination - these guys sound like total morons to not have already been aware of these types of issues.

You are not entirely correct here. The state of Nevada for example does not protect transgendered workers from discrimination. The United states also does not have a federal protection in place for us. this means that while regrettable, there is nothing stopping a business from discriminating. Unless of course a state has explicit laws protecting gender identity.

We are working on correcting this but with the embedded resistance based on biblical guidelines, it is proven most difficult to overturn or implement these protections.

What I ma saying is not every place is required to be accepting and accommodating. the last thing we need (we being American citizens) is cause for retaining discrimination. That only honey and vinegar parable and all that.


When I have to go to the bathroom, I don't care if anyone thinks anything, I am using the one labeled for my gender which is now officially female. I have never had one incident where I caused a kerfuffle in the loo.

If it ever came to blows, I would make sure I responded with extra respectful dignity. It is not wise to fly off the handle when you are defending your rights. Acting like a hot head is only going to infuriate you and those challenging you. stay calm but assert your rights. If you ae like many of us who have changed your name nad gender, you have every right to insist on fair treatment as the gender you identify with.


However... never assume anything. I know it sounds unfair but if you are androgynous or masculine in your appearance and are not presenting yourself in a manner that is conducive to a woman's or man's restroom, do not get offended if questioned. So long as they are professional, they have every right to ask. yes, it is morally and ethically disrespectful but until the law specifically removes gender form bathrooms, be prepared to be stopped if you look like a woman in a suit or a main in a dress.

[Melody Moore]

You are not entirely correct here. The state of Nevada for example does not protect transgendered workers from discrimination. The United states also does not have a federal protection in place for us. this means that while regrettable, there is nothing stopping a business from discriminating. Unless of course a state has explicit laws protecting gender identity.

Well in my country I am entirely correct Stephanie because fortunately I live in a place where such anti-discrimination laws do exist, but not everyone knows about them either. I have embarked in a new path in life now under a voluntary program as community/public educator for such issues. I have also been urged to apply for a full-time position in the New Year as Project coordinator - all aimed a teaching organisations & businesses in how to Support Transgender Clients. I really hope things do change soon in the future for you. :hugs:

[Stephanie Anne]

I am glad I wasn't born & don't live in such a backward & redneck society.

Could really do without out that please. I never said we were enlightened but at least we are working on correcting this. It's not as easy as just changing the laws as we are a "for the people" society. Until it is a common held belief, you can't change the will of the people. Thankfully more level headed people that you or I are doing just that and very soon it will no longer be an oversight in the equal right laws.

Oh and you are not correct about your own country's laws:
http://www.hreoc.gov.au/sex_discrimination/programs/laws.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Australia#Anti-discrimination_and_legal_recognition


As of 2007, The Commonwealth Government does not provide protections for "sexual orientation and gender identity" as yet in the Human Rights Commission Act 1981 (Commonwealth legislation)
You are still as backward as we are it seems. I am very glad to hear you re making progress like we are. Many states here do protect gender identity, just as many territories in Australia do.

Do note we have 20x the population you do (California alone is more than twice the population of Australia) and have a greater level of diversity so radical changes in laws only happen after much deliberation.

[Felicity71]

Well in my country I am entirely correct Stephanie because fortunately I live in a place where such anti-discrimination laws do exist, but not everyone knows about them either. I have embarked in a new path in life now under a voluntary program as community/public educator for such issues. I have also been urged to apply for a full-time position in the New Year as Project coordinator - all aimed a teaching organisations & businesses in how to Support Transgender Clients. I am glad I wasn't born & don't live in such a backward & redneck society. I really hope things do change soon in the future for you. :hugs:

WTF - I think you need to think twice when you write harsh things like that. Australia is NOT better than USA in many other ways.

[Rianna Humble]

When you've quite finished your pissing contest, please try to remember that this thread was about a specific person in a specific situation in a specific country.

The laws of the United Kingdom relating to what they term "Gender Reassignment" have been revised this year. Until the 2010 Act, to be protected from discrimination on the grounds of "gender reassignment" you had to have undergone surgery or be preparing for surgery. Now (since October 2010) the requirement for surgery has been removed, so anyone starting transition is entitled to those protections. Whilst Ross's employers would have been behaving in contravention of an Act that was only given force of law 9 weeks ago, they may not have been made aware of that change prior to this incident. I think we should give them credit for looking into the legal situation then admitting that they had been wrong.

[Melody Moore]

Oh and you are not correct about your own country's laws:
http://www.hreoc.gov.au/sex_discrimination/programs/laws.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Australia#Anti-discrimination_and_legal_recognition


You are still as backward as we are it seems. I am very glad to hear you re making progress like we are. Many states here do protect gender identity, just as many territories in Australia do.
No we are not, where I live in Queensland is one of the states hs anti-discrimination laws and I envoked the act recently when I was in hospital after a question was raised about my surgical status. I was treated & managed as a female patient the whole time I was in hospital. The Australian Human rights act does have gender discrimination laws in place as well, but revision is necessary in quite a few areas, mainly to pull all other government departments & rogue states into line.

I apologise for my earlier comment which I did remove it, so I apologise if anyone took offence to it. I just get a little bit annoyed & upset
sometimes when I see others like us being affected by such bigotry in society. Sorry, I can't help it I get so passionate about these things

[Victoria Anne]

Ross you are a woman so use the correct restroom , the only line I draw here is the ladies shower , as I have not had SRS yet I wait until later for the shower (at the gym or work).

[kay_jessica]

Please don't follow the example of the Little Britain stars David Walliams and Matt Lucas whilst filming their new comedy show "Come Fly with Me" at a real UK airport. See http://www.bucksherald.co.uk/news/national-news/comedy_surprise_at_airport_toilets_1_2199575

[lizlizzie]

While you are probably aware of this, I did want to add a comment for the person who asked the original question and also just to add a few comments for awareness' sake.

I know nothing about UK laws. But generally speaking, whatever you are presenting as, is the restroom you should use and the dressing room you should use in the store. However, when using the women's restroom, please remember to sit, women don't stand to pee. It doesn't bother me if you are in the restoom. Having had children and there having been times when men who are with their children and mom isn't around, they have faced the dlimman of what to do when the little girl has to go. Because of that, I would rather see dad come in the ladies room with her than take her into a men's room. In this world, asking a lady standing around to take her in might result in a missing child. I have always found men to be polite about asking if it's ok to come in and I have stood outside and let people know the situation to prevent any possible issues from arising. My children are grown now, but because of that, it's just not something that bothers me. What I did note, both then and with my spouse using the ladies room, is that older woman seem to have more difficulty with it. It scares my mother and makes her very uncomfortable.

[Jennifer Marie P.]

Use the bathrooms the gender you are representing and dont worry do your business and go.

[Traci Elizabeth]

As I have stated in other threads, I have used the woman's restroom hundreds of times in all kinds of places including malls, churches, stand-alone stores, public buildings, and at the airport where there were a couple of TSA officers in there with me. I chat with other women inside them as well as while waiting in line to get in them. I also, take the time to stand in front of the mirror and touch up my make-up, correct my wind blown hair, and re-apply lipstick as needed.

SO as I stated earlier in this thread. Use the woman's room and don't worry over it.