Genetic Switch for Determining Gender Identified

[Hope]

I think the title over-sells it, but the research is interesting anyway.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/12/101202141908.htm

[Jorja]

Whoooo Hoooo, flip my switch!!!

[LeannL]

OK, they mentioned some affected individuals having a small than normal penis. I know that the size before the act is not necessarily a predictor of the future but I was curious what the "normal" range would be. How does one search for that information without the one link you need being lost in the million porn links?

Leann

[Melody Moore]

The break-throughs in this type of research that are now coming out are nothing short of a 'prophetic type of revelation' to many in the transgendered community. I know that here in Australia there is now lots of time, money & research that is now being poured into sorting out these types of intersexed/transgender/transsexual issues. A lot of the research by Dr Dick F. Swaab has now started to be taken on-board by the greater medical fraternity & information is now starting to filter out slowly into society about such issues through organisations such as QAHC (http://www.qahc.org.au/transgender) here in Queensland.

Last night I headed out for awhile to the Buddha Bar here in Cairns to catch up with some friends from my local GLBT community and they had a table with materials from QAHC for people to take & read and it brought a tear to my eye to finally see a booklet called 'Supporting Transgender & Sistergirl Clients'. The terms 'Sistergirl' & 'Brotherboy' are the names used by the Aboriginal community here in Australia for transgendered people from their community. I think it's great to see that information about the 'Third Gender' always being a part of non-western cultures is now getting out there & that attitudes are slowly changing. I also found that over the past week or so when I was in hospital that everyone I met was very accepting of me being a transsexual female, but I did also do a lot personally while I was in hospital to further our cause.

The way that I believe that I furthered our cause was by being very open & honest to the people I got to know while in hospital about who I really was & the feedback I have got regarding understanding & acceptance is nothing short of EXTREMELY POSITIVE. I have had many people thank me over the past week for the enlightenment that I have given to them about I/TG/TS issues & made some really great friends along the way. A really lovely caring guy I met while in hospital called me up this morning to see how I was going & to thank me for some counselling I apparently gave to him. Apparently he had some issues with being about to love himself, but he told me the example I showed him was to be proud about who you really are. He also heard some feedback back since I was discharged from hospital that he passed onto me about half an hour ago. This feedback came from a Vietnam Vet who just had his leg had to be amputated & the message I got today was 'Good on her for standing up for what she believes in'.

The message I am trying to say here is this.... 'We are all ambassadors for the transgendered community - People only fear what they don't know or understand. We need to educate society about the transgendered community, so don't be afraid to talk to people about being I/TG/TS and passing on this type of information about people like us to others you meet in society will further our cause in gaining acceptance, better anti-discrimination laws & access to better public health services'.

So my trans brothers & sisters, please take stock of this type of information that Hope
has posted and put it in your arsenal to combat the bigotry that still exists in society.

Thanks Hope, this was a really great post. :hugs:

[Kelly DeWinter]

I followed the links for the article, and came accross information that the artical was based on. I have quoted it for highlighting purposes only. Blue is for emphasis. Red added for clarity. Please read my comments after the quotes as my opinion and conjecture.

"Investigations of humans with disorders of sex development (DSDs) resulted in the discovery of many of the now-known mammalian sex-determining genes, including SRY, RSPO1, SOX9, NR5A1, WT1, NR0B1, and WNT4. Here, the locus for an autosomal sex-determining gene was mapped via linkage analysis in two families with 46,XY DSD to the long arm of chromosome 5 with a combined, multipoint parametric LOD score of 6.21. A splice-acceptor mutation (c.634-8T>A) in MAP3K1 segregated with the phenotype in the first family and disrupted RNA splicing. Mutations were demonstrated in the second family (p.Gly616Arg) and in two of 11 sporadic cases (p.Leu189Pro, p.Leu189Arg)—18% prevalence in this cohort of sporadic cases. In cultured primary lymphoblastoid cells from family 1 and the two sporadic cases, these mutations altered the phosphorylation of the downstream targets ( of mice ), p38 and ERK1/2, and enhanced binding of RHOA to the MAP3K1 complex. Map3k1 within the syntenic region ( of a mouse ) was expressed in the embryonic mouse gonad prior to, and after, sex determination. Thus, mutations in MAP3K1 that result in 46,XY DSD with partial or complete gonadal ( The gonads in males are the testicles and the gonads in females are the ovaries ) dysgenesis (failure of and organ to develop) implicate this pathway in normal human sex determination."

So now that the medical community has tentativly identified one probable genetic cause of partial organ development in humans. Since the researcher has indicated that this mutation causes a distruption of "normal sex determination."

(YES ! I know some here don't like the word 'normal', but the researcher used it not me)

Some questions come to mind.

. Will a genetic test be made to identify such mutations ?
. Will a treatment be developed to cure said mutation early on during pregnancy ( think stem cell )?
. Is it a natural mutation worth keeping ? or should it be corrected ?
. Who makes that detemination ?

. Mutations are part and par of the human condition, Who gets to decide what is 'normal' and what is not ?

Keep in mind research center and hospitals pour money into this kind of research for one reason, to make money on a patent or a marketable 'cure'

Kelly

[Kathryn Martin]

Kelly

:iagree:

[Melody Moore]

Keep in mind research center and hospitals pour money into this kind of research for one reason, to make money on a patent or a marketable 'cure'
That is just your opinion Kelly which I strongly disagree with anyway and so what if the experiments
are being carried out with mice? They can't exactly do experiments like this on humans now can they?

So who is carrying out this research and why?


Now an international team led by Harry Ostrer, MD, director of the Human Genetics Program at NYU Langone Medical Center (http://www.med.nyu.edu/), has identified a gene that appears to be an important switch in determining whether the biological program for the development of gender will go according to plan, or if, when mutated, will cause a glitch in the program.I highly doubt that the motivation for such gender research is profit driven at all. The reason I say this is because of the fact that it is carried out through universities which are funded by governments - NOT private research companies or hospitals. And because more & more services are now being made available FREE OF CHARGE in countries that have a public health system like Australia to the intersexed & transsexual community.

I have good reason to believe that this is to rectify gender abnormalities because the cost to the taxpayer if such issues are not resolved. The cost is tenfold when it comes to dealing with secondary issues such as mental health issues, including Anxiety & Depression, Bipolar Affective Mood Disorder, Schizophrenia & Suicide - which seems to affect many Transgendered people right around the world if the underlying causes are not addressed. I believe this to be the case after talking personally with my local Federal member of Parliament recently.

As you know I posted this thread (http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?143339-Surge-in-Intersex-TG-amp-TS-Numbers-Something-in-the-food-amp-water-perhaps) recently that also so happens to bind into this research from what I was told recently by a student of the James Cook University here in Cairns. There is an interest here into understanding why there is a profound spike in the number of Intersexed, Transgendered & Transsexual people in society. So my guess is the Authoritarians & Academics are obviously now concerned about issues such as Xenoestrogens which cross the human placenta (http://www.suite101.com/content/xenoestrogens-in-food-linked-to-cancer-and-birth-defects-a238755) for example which could be a cause of such gender abnormalities.

As for how they will tackle these problems this is yet to be determined obviously, but I think you will have to be patient waiting for your answers considering this type of research is still really in it's infancy. I certainly hope they will develop a genetic test to determine intersexuality & transsexualism to help avoid making any future mistakes with treatments such as hormone therapy & SRS. Considering that mutations like this have happened right throughout the history of mankind I think we're quite some time away from a cure for these types of conditions.

[Rianna Humble]

Who gets to decide what is 'normal' and what is not ?

Keep in mind research center and hospitals pour money into this kind of research for one reason, to make money on a patent or a marketable 'cure'

"Normal" in the sense used in the article is determined statistically and has no emotion attatched to its use at all.

I'm sorry to read that you have such a jaded view of researchers and hospitals. This research was carried out principally by university researchers who "normally" don't become rich out of the profits from the advancement in understanding that they seek to promulgate.

You may be right that some hospitals are motivated by profit, but that is by no means universal. A lot of good research is still done in hospitals that are part of public health systems such as my country's NHS. The doctors, nurses and scientists who work with such hospitals could easily get anywhere from 5 to 25 times the income from going into purely private practice.

[Cynthia GG]

I got confused reading the article, because it sounds like when they say “development of gender” they mean “development of physical sex characteristics.” Am I reading that right? They say this discovery helps explain the cause of intersex conditions. So this is only about the physical, right? If so, I agree that the title does seem to overstate. But it’s nice that they are learning more about intersex issues.


OK, they mentioned some affected individuals having a small than normal penis. I know that the size before the act is not necessarily a predictor of the future but I was curious what the "normal" range would be. How does one search for that information without the one link you need being lost in the million porn links?

Leann

Leann, Your question is an interesting one -- How does one do online research for information about genitalia without getting porn sites? As an experiment, I went to Google, and clicked on “Advanced search.” At the “advanced search” menu, I asked it to look for sites containing all of the following: “Penile” “science” “research” and “norm.” As added insurance against porn, I asked it to exclude any sites with the word “hot.” A bunch of research came up. Some of it related to comparative penis sizes in groups, but I didn’t see anything explaining what scientists are considering “normal” range. I didn't look at all the sites, though; maybe it's in there somewhere.

[Melody Moore]

I got confused reading the article, because it sounds like when they say “development of gender” they mean “development of physical sex characteristics.” Am I reading that right? They say this discovery helps explain the cause of intersex conditions. So this is only about the physical, right? If so, I agree that the title does seem to overstate. But it’s nice that they are learning more about intersex issues..
Yes this particular report focuses more on the development of the genitals which causes intersexed conditions - and it's not the
first study of it's type by any means researchers have already carried out similar tests on mice to understand programming of the
brain with regards to sexual orientation & gender identity. If you Google Dick F. Swaab (http://www.google.com/search?q=Dick+F.+Swaab) or Sexual Orientation & Gender Identity (http://www.google.com/search?q=Sexual+Orientation+%26+Gender+Identity) then
I am sure you will find lots of interesting articles & research papers that will explain a lot more.

What I think is interesting is they found out that they can create transsexual mice by knocking out a particular gene called FOXL2.


Ovaries reveal their inner testes (http://www.nature.com/news/2009/091210/full/news.2009.1135.html) - Published online 10 December 2009

Inside every ovary lurks a testicle just waiting to develop. So says a study in mice that further overturns traditional
views of sexual development — and reveals that females must constantly suppress their masculine side.

Mathias Treier, a geneticist at the European Molecular Biology Laboratory in Heidelberg, Germany, and his colleagues deleted a gene called FOXL2 in sexually mature mouse ovaries. When they examined the ovaries three weeks later, they had switched sex and started pumping out the hormone testosterone.

"The major finding is that females must actively suppress the male pathway inside the ovary," Treier says. "Here is a gene that is not located on the sex chromosome that makes you stay female."

In many mammals, sex is determined during the early development of the fetus by the activity of a gene called SRY located on the Y sex chromosome, carried only by males. That gene triggers a second gene, called SOX9, which induces testes development.

But Treier's team have found that FOXL2 is a key 'power broker', acting in conjunction with the cell's oestrogen receptor in order to inhibit SOX9 in adult females and preventing the ovaries from producing testosterone. The study is published this week in Cell.
Sex change

This study is not the first to transform adult ovaries into testes. In work published in 1999 in Science, John Couse, then at the US National Institute of Environmental Health Sciences in North Carolina, and his colleagues knocked out both types of oestrogen receptor in mice and found that the gonads showed signs of changing sex, but they did not produce testosterone2. High levels of oestrogen can also trigger sex changes in a number of animals, including marsupial mammals.

But the finding that ovaries must actually strive to keep their identity makes this "a very exciting piece of work", says Richard Anderson, a reproductive endocrinologist at the Queen's Medical Research Institute at the University of Edinburgh, UK, who has studied FOXL2. "What they are proposing is that the ovary is not a fixed structure but must maintain its 'ovary-ness'," he says.

Treier had expected to achieve sex reversal in the mice by knocking out FOXL2 early in sexual development, rather than having to wait until the mice were mature. He was puzzled to find that knocking out the gene in immature mice stopped the ovaries from developing properly and led to their degeneration. He says that it has taken his group ten years to understand the gene's true role in sex determination.

Treier believes that FOXL2 could be one of the oldest sex-determining genes in vertebrates. For example, it is known that female goats that are missing the section of chromosome containing FOXL2 develop as males. Regulation of the gene may also enable female fish to change sex after sexual development, and FOXL2 could underlie the masculinization seen in some menopausal women, Treier says.

Because the ovarian cells that give rise to eggs were not modified by the gene deletion, Treier's transsexual mice could not make sperm. The next step, he says, is to add sperm stem cells to these modified ovaries to see if they can produce sperm. "It's outlandish, and the chance that it will work is very small," he says. "But you never know."When you also look at the international research departments that are taking such an interest in this topic, one has to strongly suspect
that Authoritarians & Academics are now concerned about what is happening in our environment because of the use of Xeno-Oestrogens (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenoestrogen)
and how that will impact on the future of mankind. Evidence of this type of threat was first noticed in some fish near a treatment plant (http://toxsci.oxfordjournals.org/content/78/1/156.full).

There is a lot of statistical evidence now also coming to light that males are now producing a much lower
sperm count as well as their is a marked increase in the number of intersexed births. About 1 in every 1500
to 2000 babies are born with an intersexed condition nowadays. (See: http://www.isna.org/faq/frequency).

The implications from the use of xeno-oestrogens are far reaching, studies are also proving they are a cause of cancer including Leukaemia.

Here are a number of articles (http://www.nobreastcyst.com/bass.html) that confirm exactly what I am saying which proves that Federal Governments are funding these
studies into the threat of Xeno-ostrogens and that the study is NOT profit driven at all. http://www.nobreastcyst.com/bass.html

[Kelly DeWinter]

"Normal" in the sense used in the article is determined statistically and has no emotion attatched to its use at all.

I'm sorry to read that you have such a jaded view of researchers and hospitals. This research was carried out principally by university researchers who "normally" don't become rich out of the profits from the advancement in understanding that they seek to promulgate.

You may be right that some hospitals are motivated by profit, but that is by no means universal. A lot of good research is still done in hospitals that are part of public health systems such as my country's NHS. The doctors, nurses and scientists who work with such hospitals could easily get anywhere from 5 to 25 times the income from going into purely private practice.

Ok Rianna, you may be right about me being a bit jadede, Medicine is one of those fields that I've allways felt is too expensive for most people to afford. What bothers me is when something like gene research 'discovers' a gene, patents it, then makes it's use so unaffordable that only the very rich can afford. I applaud the researchers in your country.

[Kelly DeWinter]

That is just your opinion Kelly which I strongly disagree with anyway and so what if the experiments
are being carried out with mice? They can't exactly do experiments like this on humans now can they?



Yes, It is 'just my opinion', every thing on a forum is 'just an opinion' including what you write, and yes I understand you 'strongly disagree', you make it abundently clear that you disagree with everything i say, which is no reason to dis my posts.

and FYI I 'know' why they experiment on mice, in this paticualr instance they identified the similar markers previously identified in mice, in humans by taking the markes that cause thin in humans and tested it on mice.

My point in adding the 'red' was to help forum members who might not have the background to understand the context what was written. And before you ask, I am very very VERY qualified to understand medical research and have refrained from commenting on the innaccuracy of context of the material you have now and in the past have presented in this fourm. If you would like to discuss the 'why', feel free to PM me, and we can discuss it.

The OP was to discuss a particular article and as usual you have hijaked another thread back to your xeno-fill in the blank conspiricy theory. THIS original article is about a mutation passed along generational line, not environmentaly symtomatic.

The McDonalds sound bite tabloid style reporting of medical research has to be taken with more then a pich of salt. I would not xtrapolate so much meaning from the limited information presented in such articles. All medical research has to be duplicated and peer reviewed first. Or the TG community may find itself latching onto a 'cold fusion reactor' .