When did it become "crossdressing"?

[Deborah_UK]

I was writing on another thread about purging, when it struck me.

When did I stop being a transvestite and became instead a crossdresser? (although I'm TS now though - but that's entirely another story.thread :) )

When I first became aware of the label "transvestite" it seemed to encompass all males who dressed as women (i didn't even consider FTM - I didn't know they existed - sorry!).

I did the usual looking up in the dictionary for all the rude words as teenagers do and let my view linger over the dictionary definition of transvestite, and I believed that's what I was.

When did the term crossdresser become in vogue? Has it always been there in the USA? In the UK transvestite is still used as much if not more (IMO). Eddie Izzard calls himself a transvestite, the press call him a transvestite (although some in the media now use the term gender bender).

Is it the internet that has caused the shift because I had never heard the term until I got the internet?

Sorry to ramble on - if I didn't ask the question it would be bugging me all day! :D

[Khriss]

yup.. about 1798 ,, when they finaly figured Louie the 14th was realy a fag ... all down hill after that ..realy.... glad I could help.. "K"

[jessica33]

I believe transvestite means those who dress for sexual purpose . Whereas , those who crossdress because its in their gens .

[Deborah_UK]

I believe transvestite means those who dress for sexual purpose . Whereas , those who crossdress because its in their gens .

well this is what my dictionary says

"trans·ves·tite

A person who dresses and acts in a style or manner traditionally associated with the opposite sex."

nothing in there about sexual pleasure

[Sally2]

In the USA the general perception is that a transvestite is a male prostitute and others are drag queens. There's still a lot of confusion where transsexuals are involved. Crossdresser really decribes or defines who we are and the more that label, if you will, is used hopefully our image is also improved in the eyes of the general populace. Sally2

[Imogen_Mann]

I heard a view (aka "I think..." ) that Transvestites want to live and pass, un-noticed in public (obviously without GRS.. Or they'd be a transexual), where as crossdressers dont worry so much about passing, and just LOVE dressing up when they get the chance.

Instance... Transvestites would shave arms and legs daily... Crossdresser would wear longer sleeves and thicker stockings.

Just my thoughts on the matter, the way they are arranged in my head.

XX

Jayme. (crossdresser, not transvestite)

[Jan W]

Since trans means cross and vest means clothing I honestly feel that that those who dislike thinking of themselves as a transvestite but are OK with being a crossdresser are being a little bit precious.

It seems to me that a rose by any other name still smells as sweet!

I really do not prefer one to the other but it seems that somewhere along the line transvestite has picked up a sexual fetish connotation.

[Tristen Cox]

Ah labels. I never and would never call myself transvestite even though thast's the same as crossdresser, never like the sound of it. Infact I never considered(or knew what one was) a cd until last year. A few months later I self diagnosed that I am more TS than just a cd or tg. Infact tg doesn't apply to me at all under the definition.. Took 29 years to find this label. Funny I still feel the same ;)

[MarinaTwelve200]

Crossdressing is what Transvestites, transsexuals, fetishists, escapists, etc. DO -- NOT what they ARE. It is ONLY the act of wearing clothing of the opposite bio- sex. WHY a person may cross dress is what may be important. That one may crossdress tells us nothing. there are many reasons for it---usually unrelated.



I think DEFINITIONS are the big hang up and source of confusion here. even experts can't agree---everyone still needs to define their terms first when they speak or write of such matters. The biggest problem is the sloppy and erronious habbit of EQUATING CDing with ONE of the conditions that invoke the activity---such as "a CD is a fetishist"---sure many fetishists CD, but so do transsexuals---a totally different motivation.

To equate CD to ONE of its causes is as innane as assuming that every RUNNER competes in the 100 yard dash or that every fever is a symptom of the same disease. no wonder there is confusion.

I think transvestisim used to be the fancy word for simpy crossressing (what people may DO)--- Transvestisim only became a specific term for a REASON for CDing later on---as various motivations for the act of cross dressing became differentiated and recognized.----so the older term (TV) was more recently applied to those who CDed for sexual reasons.----only thing is some older or uninformed sources still define TV as the ACT of CD---where CD is the actual act nowadays and TV is but one of the many possible reasons behind it.

[Karri M]

Hi all,

Yes, this topic certainly surfaces often in the community. While labels, in themselves, are just words, people often have an inordinate attachment to labels, and this is what makes me bristle. The difficulty with labels is that people who apply them (to both others or to themselves) run the risk of generalizing a particular experience or view to a whole set of individuals.

Crossdresser and transvestite, as Jan pointed out, mean the same thing. A crossdresser crossdresses and a transvestite "transvests," if you will. In both cases, the individual wears clothing (or vestments) "across" (or trans) gender lines. Of course, those lines are completely arbitrary; women's clothing in one culture (or in one era) is men's clothing in another, and vice versa.

I think the reason many of us find the word "transvestite" unpalatable is that it's part of the technical jargon you find in medical and psychiatric literature (like "eonism" used to be early in the last century). Most of us--and with good reason--want to distance ourselves from any notion that we are somehow ill because of what we do. We're not. And we know we're not. So the "medicalized" term, transvestite, doesn't appeal to us. Having said this, it still means exactly the same thing as crossdresser, though. I think crossdresser has more of an appeal precisely because we've "appropriated" (or maybe "re-appropriated") the term for ourselves and it's certainly more innocuous than terms used in medical jargon. In a way, it's a form of empowerment to describe ourselves as "crossdressers" rather than "transvestites." Although both terms denote the same act or behaviour, the connotations for both have shifted away from one another.

The same could be said of the word "transsexual." This time, though, rather than crossing (trans) a [completely arbitrary gender-appropriate] clothing (vest) divide, the individual crosses (trans) a biological (sex) line.

Maybe we'd do well to keep in mind that medical terms rarely express motivation (how can they when there are as many as there are individuals?) but, rather, express only the obvious. A transvestite obviously dresses as a member of the opposite sex. A schizophrenic obviously has a "split mind" (the literal definition of schizophrenia). A bi-polar person obviously goes into cycles of mania and depression. None of these represent nor are meant to be the whole story of who any given person is and why that person does what she does.

The term I prefer and that I usually apply to myself is "gender-variant." Both what I do as well as who I believe myself to be are at odds with traditional gender expectations. It's a morally neutral term that gives as much weight to social considerations as it does to individual ones, in that, "gender" is social ("biological sex" isn't) and who I am and what I do is at variance with the norms usually associated with that social factor. What I like about this term is that it encompasses any person whose gender identity is non-traditional, from crossdressers to transsexuals and anyone in between (and I'm thinking--intuitively, I'll admit--that there are much more of us "in-betweeners" than even our own community supposes).

Anyway, as always, these are fun things to ponder. Thanks for the thread, Deborah! :)

Love,
CJ

[susandrea]

Added to all of the above, I've found that "Transvstite" (often shortened to "tranny") is more common overseas (especially the U.K.), while "Crossdresser" is more common in the States. Either one can be used respectively or with derision.

Descriptive terms do have a way of morphing, so who knows what will pop up in thirty years!

[Natalie x]

One of the great things about labels is that, if you don't agree with the one you have, you can always peel it off and apply one that suits you. I actually think that Marina and CJ have summed it up very well, in describing the phenomenon that is crossdressing. But, if a name doesn't work for you, well, you don't have to use someone else's label, you can call yourself anything you like.
No words can ever properly describe what I feel inside that I try to express by crossdressing, so I'm happy to go with the simple definition and say (proudly) "I crossdress", which is the one, solid truth. At least that makes me part of one of the largest groups of people in the world. Beyond that, where my reasons are different from others', I may accept one of the qualifying labels, such as Transgendered, or Sub-transexual, or I may not.

[Lauren_T]

Spot on, CJ. :thumbsup:

[susandrea]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v713/susansqueezy/GirlyMan1.jpg

[fionablack]

I don't mind either term really. I am a transvestite. I am also a crossdresser.

[Marlena Dahlstrom]

I think the reason many of us find the word "transvestite" unpalatable is that it's part of the technical jargon you find in medical and psychiatric literature

In fact, in the States, "transvestic fetishism" is listed as a sexual paraphilia (along with child molesters and other charming folks) by the "Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders," the main reference book for mental health professional. It should be pointed out that the DSM definition only applies to those whose dressing is obsessive enough to interfere with the rest their life, and also that DSM also describe things that are "different" but not considered illness (so that mental professionals don't assume that they are.) Unfortunately, both are distinctions that are lost on the general public.

(There is hope though. Not too long ago, homosexuality was also listed as a mental disorder, until a group of gay psychologists successfully pointed out that it wasn't. And there are some psychologists specializing in gender issues who've been lobbying to have these issues re-examined for the next update of DSM.)

So "transvestite" acquired overtones of dressing for sexual purposes, which caused organizations like Tri-Ess to adopt "crossdresser" instead. OTOH, there's definitely girls out there who embrace TV precisely because of those overtones.

The International Classification of Diseases (ICD-10), which is a counterpart of the DSM, apparently has a more neutral treatment, referring to "dual-role transvestism," which isn't sexual in nature (although apparently ICD also mentions "fetishistic transvestism" in a section on sexual fetishes).

So that may be why "transvestite" is commonly used outside the States.

[Deborah_UK]

Thanks for that Darla - I wasn't really aware of the term "crossdresser" before I got onto the internet, in sheltered England it was always transvestite - a very ugly word for a lovely past-time! lol

I don't like labels either, but it was just one of those quirky thoughts I had this morning!

[Imogen_Mann]

Since trans means cross and vest means clothing I honestly feel that that those who dislike thinking of themselves as a transvestite but are OK with being a crossdresser are being a little bit precious.

It seems to me that a rose by any other name still smells as sweet!

I really do not prefer one to the other but it seems that somewhere along the line transvestite has picked up a sexual fetish connotation.

Like there's anything wrong with being a bit precious from time to time ? :p

XX

Jayme

[susiej]

Neither "transvestite" nor "crossdresser" comes close to capturing the need/desire that I often have to actually be feminine in all aspects, including those other than clothing (i.e. be a woman, not just dress the part). Yet, even if my life situation allowed, I would never consider SRS; I'm quite happy with my plumbing the way it is. So, the term "transsexual" doesn't describe me either.

Judging from the general tone of the posts in this forum, I'd say at least half of the girls here would feel the same way. Apparently the term "transgender" describes us best.

There's a great article in Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender) that nails all these labels.

Having said all that, I guess the label I like best is "girl" :).

Hugs,
Susie

[melissacd]

The term (pan)demic, means:

A disease prevalent throughout an entire country or continent, or the whole world

So following the same logic, although not a real word, perhaps the a possible term is - (pan)gender, meaning:

A person who has characteristics that (can) include the whole spectrum of masculine and feminine traits. :o

The reason that I like this term is because is says that we are not trying to become something else - (trans)ition - but rather we are trying to be inclusive of all that we already are (pan)sition ;)

Melissa

[Kimberly]

IMO, "Crossdresser" sounds nicer than "Transvestite". And a "transvestitie" connotes the association with the sexual pleasure that some get from dressing.

"Crossdresser" is how I introduce myself, and break it to people.

[DonnaT]

You can read all about how the term transvestite was coined in 1915 and later in the 1970's the term crossdresser came in vogue, and why.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transvestism

And if you have the book My Husband Betty, there is more about it in the Intro.

[carson]

Well, you can call yourself a crossdresser.

Or you can call yourself a transvestite.

Or you can call yourself a "gender-variant."

"Well from now on, I want you all to call me Loretta." (Sam, Life Of Brian)

:rotflmao:

[Khriss]

Well, you can call yourself a crossdresser.

Or you can call yourself a transvestite.

Or you can call yourself a "gender-variant."

"Well from now on, I want you all to call me Loretta." (Sam, Life Of Brian)

:rotflmao:
there Ya Go!!! nice Carson !
"TV" wize I still luv "Leave It To Beaver" eh? :eek: :D hehe "K"