Girls have you encountered this kind of hatred?

[Dawn]

Hello all!
I was on another TG site this past weekend and sent a message to a woman to say hello and ask if she wanted to chat. I was hoping to get to know her a little better.
Here's the message I sent:

"Hello. I just wanted to send you a little message to say hello and tell you how awful I think it is that your family & friends have disowned you! It's wonderful though that your mood is still hopeful after all that. I would love for us to be friends and get to know each other better. I'm a CD'er from up here in Southern WI. I know you have probably gotten alot of messages from guys like myself but believe me when I say I'm quite different from the rest. I love that your a fan of Rush (the best group around!) and Sabbath and that you play pool! I'd love to find out what else we have in common. If you can look past me being a CD'er I hope you'll reply back and say hi.

Have a good sunday night!"

Here's the message she sent me back:

"I can't look past your being a "CD'er"
The lowest form of life on the planet; Guys that get off by dressing in women's clothes and masturbating. And an ugly old guy at that.
My being a transexual doesn't mean we have anything in common at all. F*** off. Go play with your pantyhose."

I must admit I've never received a message like this or had this kind of hatred pointed towards me. I will also tell you the thing that stung the most was that she thought I was ugly! I think I look pretty good! :heehee: Anyway....have any of you girls encountered someone like this? I appreciate all your responses.

Dawn

[Melinda G]

Sounds like a very unhappy transexual.

[giuseppina]

Seems she is a rather ignorant and intolerant transsexual. About the only thing that can be done is route her email to the junk box. Nobody needs that kind of bullfeathers.

[Michelle2008]

Dawn,

I think you look very beautiful! And as Melinda said....this person is very unhappy, insecure, and negative person. Definitely not what people are who live in southern WI. I live in Waunakee, WI. Keep looking for better people....good luck!

Michelle

[Melinda G]

Several years ago, I went to a couple other boards, and I noticed a strong animosity between transexuals, and crossdressers. The transexuals seem to feel superior to CDers, like they are the real thing and we are impersonators. That's just my take on it, but the two just don't seem to mix well.

[Angiemead12]

What a big B*^ch! Dont let that get to you! Just stay on our site.

But yes amongst the LBGT there is sub groups that dont get along!

[LitaKelley]

Wow.. that's messed up. I never knew this sort of animosity between TS & CD even existed.. I've been to some get togethers that have been mixed of both TS & CD and everyone gets along great.

[juligirl1984]

that seemed pretty rude since she was one once herself. hope it didn't bother you at all.

[CatAttack]

Aw I'm sorry Dawn. Those were some hurtful remarks she made.

Yeah a lot of TS view CDs as sort of fetishists who just want to imitate women for a sexual thrill. This type of behavior is definitely not something that many are proud of and the TS, who already have enough troubles in life [transition, losing family, friends, job, etc..], does not want more trouble from being associated with this. Thus she may grow to carry some animosity towards the CDer. Basically what I'm saying is that [not my personal opinion] many TS think that CDers makes the whole trans issue look bad. The CDer "what panties are you wearing" threads come to mind. Definitely not what I want to be associated with [no offense to all you panty thread people].. In my opinion both CD and TS stem from a similar source of transness. I believe that the CD feels sexual arousal due to the suppression of their innate "womanness" and that frustration is released as libido.

Now I definitely do not agree with the way she wrote her response.. it was hurtful and mean. But if I received a letter like yours I would suspect that you were coming on to me.. and would probably reply with something simple like "hi and thanks for your support!" and end it there.. no offense. You're definitely not an "ugly old man" though! Don't let her get you down and keep on doing what you do :) And there are many TS out there that are not complete bitches.

[Niya W]

Dawn just shrug it off. The net is full of people with mental issues .

[Marissa]

Dawn, please tell me it wasn't on urna???? LOL..reason I ask is that I have been on that site and ran across a ts who just hated cd'ers with a passion because she could not understand how someone could just get into wearing fem clothes but not wanting to go all the way to be a woman, meaning having the operations. She was bitter, etc..

Sorry you ran across one of those. Its one who does not understand that not all of us are born in the wrong body...or have come to realize that.

[t-girlxsophie]

I am so sorry you had to read such crap from an obviously troubled individual,there is im afraid some friction between some cd and ts,have had the "oh! Your JUST a transvestite"amongst other things,its sad it exists but I have met many more decent ts and indeed I count some as close friends.

I think you just have to put this down to experience,not everybody will get along,but I hope it doesn't put you off contacting others.And as for being called ugly,could have been worse wait till you've been told that you look like"Meatloaf in a dress:eek:that one had me questioning myself LOL

:hugs:Sophie

[MJ]

Hey sis were not all bad and many of us understand you hell i was a cd'r too ......not sure if thats a good thing to say lol. i'll love to go for coffee sometime :hugs:

[spotlessMind]

YIKES. That was certainly an unexpected reaction to a very sincere message. Wow.

Take it with a grain of salt, some people are just [insert explicative here] lol. Consider it nothing more than that! You would think that there would be SOME kind of commonality there in being "different", but that experience goes to show it's not always so, eh?

Don't sweat it too much. If I got that kind of reception, I'd probably be VERY upset and use that as motivation to try to incite some kind of humanity in the person. We're all the way we are for SOME reason. That fuels me to find a better way and try to radiate that to others. Whether that's futile or not is up to you. Don't let it bother you enough to feel bad about yourself. Pity the pitiful, just don't RESENT it and don't let it bring you down.

[JulieK1980]

I always find it bemusing that someone that is generally mistreated by society, would inflict the same sort of treatment on someone else. While I'm sure there is some sort of personal issues this particular transexual is suffering. You would still think they'd be able to empathize. The internet for some reason seems to be an excuse for many to lose all mannerisms all together.

[Dawn]

Several years ago, I went to a couple other boards, and I noticed a strong animosity between transexuals, and crossdressers. The transexuals seem to feel superior to CDers, like they are the real thing and we are impersonators. That's just my take on it, but the two just don't seem to mix well.

Melinda, your probably right about this. I've gotten this feeling myself a few times in reading replies to other threads. It's too bad.
Marissa, it was not on URNA.

Dawn

[Karren H]

Sounds like you were talking to my wife.... Sigh...

[Gina X]

I've had a similar message once from another message board, it does hurt for a while but then you get to wondering why I just put it down to someone who is sad and lonely and will probably remain that way. We on the other hand have a good life to get on with and lots of nice friends specially since joining this group where every body is so nice.....................

[Claire Cook]

Hello all!

Here's the message she sent me back:

"I can't look past your being a "CD'er"
The lowest form of life on the planet; Guys that get off by dressing in women's clothes and masturbating. And an ugly old guy at that.
My being a transexual doesn't mean we have anything in common at all. F*** off. Go play with your pantyhose."

Dawn

Dawn,

This is the kind of empathy we can easily do without. I hope it is not a typical reaction of TS's.

Claire

[Starr]

Maybe her family didn't disown her for being Trans, maybe they did it because she was such an A$$.

[Sara Jessica]

It is definately an unfortunate reaction and I don't think it is typical of those who lean towards the TS side of things.

It also illustrates that no matter how we self-identify, there are distinct differences within our community that some people try to brush aside by rejecting labels. While one might argue that the label is at the heart of this example of venom and intolerance but my point is that by becoming educated about the many shining lights along the tg continuum, we can understand where others are coming from even if we don't necessarily identify with them. I would bet that for every TS who would say such things about CD'ers, there are CD'ers who think the TS experience and the steps one might take to transition are completely nuts as well.

And we wonder why the muggles have such a hard time getting their heads around our world???

[Jamiegirl1]

Mine too

[Jilmac]

Hi Dawn, Another Wi. girl here. No I have never encountered that sort of blatant hatred whether in person or by correspondence. It seem to me that the other person is totally wrapped up in her own self image. She probably shows disdain for anybody who can't be seen through her tunnel vision.

[My Lady Marsea]

Just my thought or wutever here, not necessarily my own cast in stone feelings.
Perhaps a majority of true TGs feel they are like more serious about womanhood in that they like now live their whole day to day life 24/7 as the women they are. There is no switching from being a male persona to a female, back and forth as the moment or situation arises. They never wanted to be a male and have no intention of ever going back for a second or a lifetime. Most have taken long non reversible measures such as HRT, possibly surgeries, legal name change and document upgrades with their female pictures and appropriate gender marker changes, any number of things conductive to a true 24/7 women, to further themselves as the female they truly are. They have like a much more different daily outlook on their lives since they don't think like Oh today I'll dress for a few hours as a women but later I have to get back into drab. They really aren't concerned with what color panties others are wearing or the amusing first time out in public at midnight in the car in back road farm communities....wutever. A true TG more than likely puts her bra on in the morning and takes it off at night , not the other way around. Many have truly lost family, friends, jobs and more as they have made a commitment to be truly "out" to the world as true female, there is no part time thingie here.
I am not like even going to go there and say this gives them the right to be more holy than thou, but it is like a different situation. That letter was not right and I can not or will not condone it. We all, human to human, should still be given the dignity and respect that any human deserves. If man/women kind could all agree on all things then all those things society dictates as good or bad or normal would be a moot point. Unfortunately, or perhaps fortunately, I guess to agree to disagree is what keeps life as we know it alive.
I'm just playing devils advocate here, most of this is based on my personal observations as I progress to who I truly am, I can not nor will speak for others...like so totally not my place to do so.

[Michelle 51]

She probaly is looking for a man and we don't fit into that image.She could have been a lot nicer in how she told you that.She was havivg a bad day but I have a saying{If your having a bad day go have it somewhere else}.I think you look nice.

[JulieK1980]

Just my thought or wutever here, not necessarily my own cast in stone feelings.
Perhaps a majority of true TGs feel they are like more serious about womanhood in that they like now live their whole day to day life 24/7 as the women they are. There is no switching from being a male persona to a female, back and forth as the moment or situation arises. They never wanted to be a male and have no intention of ever going back for a second or a lifetime. Most have taken long non reversible measures such as HRT, possibly surgeries, legal name change and document upgrades with their female pictures and appropriate gender marker changes, any number of things conductive to a true 24/7 women, to further themselves as the female they truly are. They have like a much more different daily outlook on their lives since they don't think like Oh today I'll dress for a few hours as a women but later I have to get back into drab. They really aren't concerned with what color panties others are wearing or the amusing first time out in public at midnight in the car in back road farm communities....wutever. A true TG more than likely puts her bra on in the morning and takes it off at night , not the other way around. Many have truly lost family, friends, jobs and more as they have made a commitment to be truly "out" to the world as true female, there is no part time thingie here.
I am not like even going to go there and say this gives them the right to be more holy than thou, but it is like a different situation. That letter was not right and I can not or will not condone it. We all, human to human, should still be given the dignity and respect that any human deserves. If man/women kind could all agree on all things then all those things society dictates as good or bad or normal would be a moot point. Unfortunately, or perhaps fortunately, I guess to agree to disagree is what keeps life as we know it alive.
I'm just playing devils advocate here, most of this is based on my personal observations as I progress to who I truly am, I can not nor will speak for others...like so totally not my place to do so.


Right. But it sounds a lot more to me, like an example of, "I've been hurt by people, so I'm going to attack people that I see as inferior to me."

It's this attempt by a few to create a heirarchy that I think leads to this. Not a lot different than a bully mentality in school. Usually the bully attacks weaker kids because when he gets home he gets abused by his parents. It's human nature to attempt to create a pecking order, and only natural to try to see where you fit into in society. In and of itself it's not even bad to do this, as it's a part of our competive drive as humans to better ourselves. However when someone is mentally sick, they use it as an excuse to lash out, and cause pain. It was a sense of superiority that has led to some of the most voracious and atrocious crimes throughout history. I think this person is just showing either a lack of critical thinking skills leading to an inability to see beyone their own ideas, or simply the rantings of a mentally disturbed individual.

[Pythos]

"I always find it bemusing that someone that is generally mistreated by society, would inflict the same sort of treatment on someone else. While I'm sure there is some sort of personal issues this particular transexual is suffering. You would still think they'd be able to empathize. The internet for some reason seems to be an excuse for many to lose all mannerisms all together. "

To the poster that posted this.

RIGHT ON!!

I have noticed that the groups that were marginalized or are marginalized are really awful at times against those that too are persecuted. From the African Americans against gays, to Christians against....everyone not like them. (generalizations, but they are definitely there).

[Chickhe]

Gee... a simple no thank you should be enough! There is a huge dividing line and I would not say it is always between CDers and TSs, but more on the line of how you live your life. There is a group that does do it for what she said, but probably the minority and is the negative stereotype so many people of any group are not supportive of that, there is the in the house group and the outside group, and then the really out and living full time group. I would say the largest dividing line is between the 'out' or mostly full time group vs others who are still living their male life and need to hide when they leave home... and I think it has a lot to do with practicallity...it is hard to be friends when you are experiencing two separate lives. When you are full time, the issues are about how to do it and survive no matter how you look and when you are a CDer, it is about trying to look your best for a short time and being able to fall back on your other life. It is just different. When I read your inital email, you may have offended the person by assuming some things about their motives and they may have misread yours. ...happens sometimes I guess (ever watch Seinfeld?).

[flatlander_48]

Dawn just shrug it off. The net is full of people with mental issues .

Understatement of the MONTH...

[Gerrijerry]

There are many TS on this site and I have not read any post that ever said Cd where not as good as TS girls. Thank goodness that it was on another site. I have to say that She was simply a rude person and I am sure most TS girls would never talk like that to a CD. I know I would never say anything like that nor do I or any TS woman I met feel that way. Yes there are differences between the two groups but there are many things that are the same also. Her problem is the way she acts and treats others that is why she has so many problems.

[RachelOKC]

A freind of mine had a term for the kind of person who sent Dawn that vitriolic response. She called them "tranny-er than thou."

[sandra-leigh]

If you look around this site, you will find some members who express sentiments akin to those expressed by the correspondent; the ones here are more polite about it. It has also been claimed that there are a number of members who feel similar ways but do not say so in public postings.

And yes, the pantie threads are often indicated as the canonical proof that those members are in a completely different worldview than the Cross-dressers.

Sometimes, I can get a glimpse of why those people write what they do, and sometimes I can emphasize with an expressed feeling of disconnection. I have not, though, been able to understand or emphasize with the kind of passionate rejection expressed in the response received.

[SherriePall]

Dawn -- She obviously forgot what the difference was between a CD'er and a TS....... one year.
I know that's an old joke, but many TS's started their lives believing that they were "only" CD'ers.

[AKADonna]

That person has a problem...... you certainly don't.

[Ruth]

I've heard in the past of this situation of a transsexual having feelings of superiority towards those of us who merely wear the clothes, and I don't think its a TS or TG thing - it's just what some people are like regardless of whether it's gender expression or religious belief or the car you drive.
Just avoid those people, and don't let it upset you.

[Melissa_Z]

If you look around this site, you will find some members who express sentiments akin to those expressed by the correspondent; the ones here are more polite about it. It has also been claimed that there are a number of members who feel similar ways but do not say so in public postings.

And yes, the pantie threads are often indicated as the canonical proof that those members are in a completely different worldview than the Cross-dressers.

Sometimes, I can get a glimpse of why those people write what they do, and sometimes I can emphasize with an expressed feeling of disconnection. I have not, though, been able to understand or emphasize with the kind of passionate rejection expressed in the response received.

Well put.

[JulieC]

Hatred = stupidity. It should never be taken to heart, even if it seems to strike close to home. Such demonstrations of hatred are a comment on the person voicing the hatred.

There are a LOT of hate filled people in the world.

[Cristi]

I've noticed in life in general that members of ANY demographic are constantly looking for somebody who they can see as 'lower down on the ladder than they are, as if they can raise themselves up by pushing others down. :(

Not EVERYBODY feels this way, but in general especially for insecure people:

Heterosexuals feel superior to gays, who feel superior to transgendered people, who feel superior to CDs, who feel superior to people who 'only' have a fetish.... and there are probably even levels beyond that.

Whenever you have any kind of group that is persecuted, odds are that some members of that group will pass the hate 'down' to another group. So caucasians can hate african americans who can in turn hate jews who can hate arabs who can hate asians... all so people in each group can feel better about themselves.

All you can do is ignore the hate... and vow to yourself that you'll never pass it on.

[TxKimberly]

Looks to me like someone needs to get bitch slapped! lol

[Ericka2]

Some people just got issues, let's just get along...

Love Ericka

[Suzette Muguet de Mai]

Sounds like she is having problems accepting herself. If she accepts herself she maybe able to accept others then she may feel that she is a contribution to society and not a drain. :)) so very not nice.

[minalost]

It’s hard to believe that there is any sort of general feeling of dislike for CDs by most TSs. I mean, there are a lot of TSs on this site and they have always been nothing but friendly to me. I do wonder, though, if any dislike for us CDers by TSs or people who are happy with their gender (muggles… because I don’t want to use the word normal!) stems from our being so undecided or wishy-washy about our gender identification. I mean, “Can’t you make up your mind? Are you a man or a woman?” Muggles and TSs know what gender they are. Anyway, it’s all speculation to me because I’ve never encountered TS who has been unpleasant to me because I’m a CDer.

[LilSissyStevie]

Some people have to scream their womanhood in your face because otherwise you wouldn't have noticed.

[Miss Misery]

I think the respondent has issues regarding her TS and therefore, to feel better, finds solace in putting down another group. Essentially, "I know being TS is unacceptable, but it's not as bad as being CD!" It's a sad way of feeling better about one's life but it happens all the time.

She's not worth your time or concern (and probably doesn't know the difference between Ozzie Osbourne and Ronnie James Dio anyway!).

[Emily Ann Brown]

Or talking with my EX !!!!

Yes there is a bit of a war it would seem. Some TGs after surgery can forget where they came from. I have had the same experience.

Em

[NathalieX66]

People, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE just hold on a second here.

Dawn, it is very possible that the person you were communicating is bi-polar. From how the email went, it looks like exactly that.

No need to get into whether this person is self loathing or has contempt for CD'ers, etc. I may be guessing, but i've seen it, and I know a number of people who suffer from bi-polar disorder. All I'm trying to say is that you have to keep factors like this in mind.

[Melinda G]

Just one more thought here. It's possible the transition isn't all she expected it to be. And now she's stuck with it for the rest of her life. Now that would be tough to take!

[dilane]

Methinks the lady doth protest too much ...

1) Some (by no means all) TS's who started out as TV's become snobs who say and think hateful things about people who are "stuck" at a more "primitive" stage. I happen to have known a couple of them over the years as they developed into TS's. They attack any thing reminds them of their embarrassing past.

2) Depressed people can sometimes be very vicious and supremely self-centered. This person is also obviously very immature. She did you a favor by revealing herself!

-- Diane

[Miss Misery]

Careful! Some of you might have said things pointed and controversial enough to get this thread locked down - like the Mask.

[Daintre]

Sorry to late, this thread is now closed. This thread went from talking about one person's intolerance and now it it has become an us versus them thread.