Why the difference?

[Monica73]

Started a new job this week and one of the guys is openly gay. He is talking about his boyfriend etc all the time. I on the other hand have been underdressing and keep finding myself pulling my shirt down so no one will see my bright pink string bikinis. (new goal wear panties every day on this job...forever :)

I'm sure this has been discussed before, but why is it different? I really can't come out either as my wife completely objects (would hate for someone to tell her) but why should I obsessively hide it and why should it even matter? Or maybe it's me being overly cautious??

[sissystephanie]

I think you are being openly cautious! That said, you might want to think about wearing panties that are not quite so sexy and showy. I wear silk or satin panties every day, all day, but they are not string bikinis or such things. They are definitely feminine, and many are colored, but they are always hidden!! Most people don't care what you are wearing, unless you are trying to attract attention for some reason!

[Gina X]

This is one of those great unanserable questions, I guess it is a condition which society has forced upon us (think of the victorians covering the legs of tables!!) I think it will gradually break down over time but will be a long slow process as we are the newest at coming out it will take time gay people have been around as long as we have but have a head start in being accepted by society in general, I know our time will come probably not in my lifetime but almost certainly in the lifetime of some of our younger sisters, we just have to keep doing our own little bit gently pushing the boundaries further away although it looks an impossible task from our point of view but think how many out CD girls there were 25 years ago...................

[Michelle 51]

I'm probaly going to get flak for this statement but here goes anyway.Let me state first that i speaking in general.You can be gay and if you don't come out and if people don't know you they can't tell but a crossdresser unless you pass really well people can tell your a man in a dress.You probaly meet gays everyday and just see a guy but you do notice a crossdresser.Another point is if you hetro you are afraid people will think your gay because you like to wear womens clothing or weird and most people us included just want to fit in the norm.I think society is more acceptting of gays then men who dress as women.No offense to anybody.

[Monica73]

...Another point is if you hetro you are afraid people will think your gay because you like to wear womens clothing or weird and most people us included just want to fit in the norm...

You know I never thought of it like that. Maybe that is my problem. I don't know. Maybe subconsciously I am thinking that. Something for sure for me to think about. Maybe knowing someone who is gay and accepting them is different for me than being considered gay myself. Hmmmm...thanks for the input.

[suzy1]

I agree with Michelle. I am not expecting our lifestyle to be accepted by society in the near future if ever. This is just the way I see it. I am trying to be realistic about it. I don’t expect everyone here to agree.

[Joanne f]

I often wonder if it is partly to do with the way a lot of cross dressing is done , if you are openly gay then that is all there is to know about you (you are gay) but if you cross dress and wear a wig and makeup then people are not sure of why you are doing it so there is a certain amount of miss trust , in the sense that if you are hiding who you are then you must be doing something you shouldn`t be doing .

[Karren H]

Simply.... they are no longer perverts.... we still are!! lol

[juno]

I think it is because transgender illustrates that gender is not a simple "black and white" issue, but a continuum. To accept transgender, people have to accept that they may also not be 100% straight male or female, because there really is no such thing.

I suspect that FTM is more acceptable than MTF because men are instinctively vulnerable to peer pressure to be tough/brave, so that they are more willing to risk their life for the group, even when they are afraid. In primitive times, men would have to go out and hunt for food, even when they saw their companion get eaten on the last hunt. I'm just guessing, but it makes sense. We should reject that primitive instinct, because it is not needed in modern humans. Our intelligence is supposed to supersede our instinct.

[Prissy Linda]

I'll probably get some flack over this but It could be that Gay people are just braver than we are in general... Of course there are many gay people who can not or will not out themselves because of family, jobs,etc, but many have been willing to come out of the closet. Gays don't seem to feel as much shame about being with someone of their own gender as we feel about expressing our hidden gender or clothing preference.

[Joanne f]

I suspect that FTM is more acceptable than MTF.

I would disagree with this as i feel that FtM would have a much harder time with family than a MtF would , don`t be fooled by the lack of harassment posts on the FtM forum as they can have a very hard time .

[Veronica 1]

All it takes is for us to just decide to not care. Gays are accepted because they have been in the public eye now for a long time. We just need more time for society to accept our lifestyle. That can only work though if we start to push the boundries of our desires and dress the way we want as much as we can. In public.

[ninapuella]

I think it is because the trans-world have a very bad reputation. And that is because very many "fake"-tgirls out there just dress in lingerie and masturbate. Thats the picture that then is showed to everyone about the t-world. Before I started dressing i saw a transvestite like a discusting word. But now i have since a long time ago realized that there are t-girls that really are like women both in the head and in the way they behave and dress. It takes a lot to be a real t-girl but to many just go half-way and that is not sexy. I think the t-girls that really go all the way is not noticed in the same way, they just become a part of the people.

[Christinedreamer]

Another negative aspect is the almost universal way TGs are presented by the media . "Crossdressing" bank robbers, murderers, pedophiles, ******* hookers or for Milton Berle style parodies etc. Rarely do you see positive or at least neutral portrayals on TV or the movies.

Watch "Just Like a Woman" or "A Girl Like Me". Even the show Ally McBeal had a TG who was trying to get off the street and was gainfully employed as a legal apprentice.

As long as there is supposed comedy relief, sensationalistic news stories or a cheap way to make a crime show kinky, we will continue to be the brunt of suspicion and open hostility.

[donnalee]

(think of the victorians covering the legs of tables!!) ......
Even weirder, think of someone getting their rocks off by looking at a table leg! Talk about fetishes! :eek:

[Jorja]

Started a new job this week and one of the guys is openly gay. He is talking about his boyfriend etc all the time. I on the other hand have been underdressing and keep finding myself pulling my shirt down so no one will see my bright pink string bikinis. (new goal wear panties every day on this job...forever :)

I'm sure this has been discussed before, but why is it different? I really can't come out either as my wife completely objects (would hate for someone to tell her) but why should I obsessively hide it and why should it even matter? Or maybe it's me being overly cautious??

It is not different. The difference you refer to is you. If you want to be able to openly talk about your dressing in the office or anywhere for that matter, all you have to do is come out to thoes around you. Then you can talk and/or dress in the manner you desire without anything being said.

[sometimes_miss]

For me, it's simply a matter of insecurity, based on nowhere to find the support I need. Gay folks have a network of sorts, gay bars and clubs, gay dating sites online, where they optimistically meet other people who will be interested in them. There is no such place for crossdressers; there are no straight girl crossdresser bars, no straight girl crossdressers clubs or legitimate dating sites online (the only one is a sham, there are a few 'ringers', females who exist on the site for purposes of getting people to pay for the ability to answer emails, but those emails of interest dry up once you've paid your fee). I think that if there were a better way to find the few women who are o.k. with crossdressing, I might be more willing to be 'out'. But as it stands, I'll stay in the closet.

[Wendy W]

In Boston, it's just better accepted to be Gay or Lesbian. Being the first state to allow same sex marriage, there is plenty anti descrimination statutes and protection. I wish I could say the same for the rest of us CD and people with other gender interests.

I'm guessing with being Gay or Lesbian, they're talking about a SO just like when we talk about our Heterosexual SO. So its an accepted norm to talk about a loved one. But to come out about being a CD, it like coming out and telling the world, we have a fetish (it may not be the case).

Just go slow and feel out your work crowd, since your still new. Then just as mentioned above, come out slowly with slight hints in your dressing.

WW

[Monica73]

Thanks all for your input...I certainly don't feel alone in my feelings now! I knew you'd all help me out :)

[VS Fan]

Additional two cents here... I think there'd be a big difference between "wearing panties" to work and actually coming in fully dressed. If people can accept a gay co-worker, and if they see you wearing panties and think you're gay, the transitive property (loosely applied I'll admit) would seem to argue that they could accept you wearing panties. You simply tell them you're not gay, but just like to have a little fun, tell them they should try it (if they are guys) and that's it. Who cares what they think beyond that, as long as they are willing to still interact with you at work. As I said, there's a huge difference between that and showing up with a wig, full makeup / forms etc. And for full disclosure, I could never openly admit to underdressing at work, since my co-workers are *not* a tolerant bunch, so this two cents of mine is definitely from "safe cover."

VS Fan

[Jennifer Soames]

I think CD'ing makes people very insecure and they therefore dont want to accept it. Being Gay is now so common it is no longer a problem.

[audreyinalbany]

everyone here seems to take the attitude that gays just suddenly gained acceptance by some miracle. Don't forget that the current tolerance towards gays is, first of all, far from universal, and secondly very hard won. There were many years of struggling and strife for gays to gain even the modicum of acceptance they currently enjoy. We, on the other hand, generally seem to prefer to stay under the radar.

[karren G]

well i told my wife as soon as i new i realy liked to crossdress and wanted to ware knikers full time( and she lets me under my male clothes 24/7 and a bra so long as they don't show) We have a open and fully honest relationship and it has worked out well for us, as i know am alowed to dress in front of her when i want. if your relationship is good tell her then give her some time.As for work we have more job protection today i dont think they could stop you showing anthing so long as your not adfensive to anyone buy looking convincing or just middle half way gayish , thats my two peneth worth hope it helps:):):2c::2c:
Started a new job this week and one of the guys is openly gay. He is talking about his boyfriend etc all the time. I on the other hand have been underdressing and keep finding myself pulling my shirt down so no one will see my bright pink string bikinis. (new goal wear panties every day on this job...forever :)

I'm sure this has been discussed before, but why is it different? I really can't come out either as my wife completely objects (would hate for someone to tell her) but why should I obsessively hide it and why should it even matter? Or maybe it's me being overly cautious??

[Oilpainter35]

I beleive that the gay community is the way it is and the CD community is like it is, because the gay community is not dependant on the straight community. The straight world can do as they wish, because it is not making their existance any less valid or invalid. They stand up for their rights to be. That is supported by the straight community, which includes most crossdressers. The gay crossdressers have the advantage of having the gay community support and backing of the straight community (because they are gay). The gay crossdresser has a social nitch or community that they live in and they need not extend themselves further out than that. But by law, gays cannot be discriminated against in several ways. Oh they are, as you all know in some way or another, but nothing sanctioned by the community. Now,lets look at the straight cross dresser. The straight crossdresser is not part of the gay community, nor part of the straight community, because what they are doing is not considered straight. Taboo's are hard to wrstle to the ground, and dressing is several taboo's wrapped in one package. First the apearance. ahhh, woman...Not even wanting to be considered male usually. They are not female ...Deception, not really liked by the community, except on Halloween. Then how far is the perception going? Is this person gay? No, not usually wanting to be considered gay. So the problem is that the deception is the downfall of the situation. It causes the confusion of the straight community and they are just dealing with deception as all normal people do. Chastise it or ignor it. When you ignor it you are not acknowledging it, which isn't aiding its acceptance. It ain't there. Chastising it, you label it as bad and want to get rid of it, as there were individuals back a few years that wanted to beat and kill gay people because that is what they were, and are.That has been dealt with legal rights. The legality of it changed its acceptance. Not that it would be more accepted, but rather you would not be beaten because you were gay. Do you think there will be legal support for cross dressing? Not in the near future. The only thing you can do is go out with slight differences and challenge the straight community as to what is normal. I think the children are doing that now, and it will advance as they age. Every kid in school knows someone (boy) that wears nail polish, eye shadow....Would that been okay in 1960's ? Hell no. Some are wearing skirts, but as more find it okay to do that, and by more I mean more towards the middle of the schools social group comes out with alternative fashions, and styles the faster the crossdressing ball will roll. Sorry about the rant..........Drew

[Jilmac]

I think it's society's double standard coming through. Gays and their partners have been accepted by most so there is no more stigma attached. Crossdressers on the other hand are still perceived by many to be closeted gay or bi males.

[Cindi Johnson]

Gays have fought the fight. Even now, they continue to fight against the bigotry of the McCain-McConnell-Boehner stand on "don't ask don't tell". Until very recently gay sex was "the love that dare not speak it's name". Even during the AIDS holocaust, enough gays fought the establishment that change occurred. During my lifetime, the attitude shift towards gays has been unimaginable. There's still a lot of hatred tossed at them by the wingnuts, but most normal people don't partake in this.

And I benefit, even though I'm not gay. When I'm out dressed and get read, there's a good chance the salesgirl or barrista assumes I'm gay, and yet she accepts me, she treats me with the respect due any human. Yes, it's true: society is more tolerant towards us because gays fought for equality. In most large cities I can be dressed for days, go most anywhere a GG would go, unafraid. To a large degree, I gotta thank the gays for this.

Unfortunately, TG's tend to hide from society. We are afraid to apply pressure, as that might get us noticed, it might jeopardize our male position in society. Even politically, it's clear from this and most CD websites that very many of us support politicians who attempt to deny us equality. Even when, as with Title 13 recently, a politician takes a step towards helping TG's, we are forbidden to even mention this in CD websites. How many of you have ever contacted your senator or representative when legislation (such as ENDA) affecting us was pending?

Unfortunately. until we become more active, I suspect we'll just continue riding along on the gay community's coattails.

Cindi

[RachelRICD]

I am a CD with a full time job as a woman. My office is totally accepting and has no problem with my working as a female. They request that I dress totally and properly for work and use the unisex rest room. Other than that I am treated totally female. I have been here for over a year now and have no regrets. I am included in all employee functions and work with over 40 accepting females and 4 accepting men. It happens. I was interviewed for the job as a female and eveyone has knowledge that I am a cd.

[Stephanie Anne]

I'll be honest. It is because you have a stigma of being sexual perversions and it makes people uncomfortable. We are still having to fight for our equal rights. Even those of us who are transitioning still face similar hurdles. thankfully enough of us are showing the world in large that we're just normal average everyday men and women.

I can't say if crossdresssing rights will reach a level of gay/lesbian rights and trans/intersexed rights as it is seems as either a fetish or a self enjoyment practice. To many it would be the same as someone who is into bondage or LARP. you wouldn't see a man or woman strutting around the office in lathers or medieval garb and as such people do not want to see a man who is happy to be a man dressed as a woman or a woman happy to be a woman dressed as a man in a professional setting.

you can disagree with me and I do not say it is right but it is a valid argument that unless you are transitioning / have transitioned to the opposite sex, there is no reason to expect that your personal life should be accepted in your professional one.

I also wish to bring up the idea that by doing so you re possibly setting back trans rights. If you can do this just for fun or pleasure then why does someone who wants to transition even need to? Why should I give them the same rights as a "real" man or woman when they are just into dressing up?

I know this can seem arrogant or bigoted but I hope it makes you think on why it is such a delicate subject and one trans activists are hesitant to involve themselves with. I think many of us fear that including crossdressing rights would lessen the validity of trans/intersex rights in TODAY'S society.

[Sarasometimes]

I look at it simply that many humans are most comfortable when everything has its own box. A gay is gay. A post-op TS is just that. When you venture out as an in between it tends to freak people out. OK he is wearing women's clothing, but why? Is he pre op, then when will he get surgery? Is he gay?... And then there is the whole part of how do you explain the need to wear strickly by choice often times uncomfortable restrictive clothing and makeup high heels... Women tend to avoid those things today and emulating male traits is seen as admirable where the opposite is frond upon. As for the post that suggested all you need do is crossdress at work. i don't recommend you try that one until you are certain your state protects that option. Mine doesn't. Good thread!

[Davina-Alba]

Interesting thread which I don't have much to add to except to say that I think sarasometimes hit the nail on the head with the comment that [society is] "most comfortable when everything has its own box". Men who wear female clothes just don't (yet?) have a box. Actually, do we want one?

[Jamie001]

I agree with Michelle. I am not expecting our lifestyle to be accepted by society in the near future if ever. This is just the way I see it. I am trying to be realistic about it. I don’t expect everyone here to agree.

OUr lifestyle will never be accepted because we hide and cower in the closet. Our gay brothers and sisters have the courage to get out there in the world and be proud of who they are. That is how you gain acceptance. Most CDs don't have the courage to make this leap.

[eluuzion]

I am certain it is because you did not eat your vegetables when you were a child. :heehee:

Unfortunately, civilized society still defines acceptable behavior by majority vote standards. We still have the option to vary from those "standards" that society imposes on us...but that decision still includes having to dodge the rocks people throw at us...:D

:love:

[Miss Misery]

I would like to add that being gay is only "more acceptable than it used to be" but certainly not totally accepted.

Even here on our site, some commented in a thread about "which bathroom to use" that there was concern over having a 12 yr old girl using the same RR as a CD/TG. And a 12 yr old boy using the same RR (restroom NOT railroad!) as a gay man. That seems to me that folks are still considering both CD/TG and homosexuals as potential child molesters always on the prowl for young teens. In fact, look at the mentality behind "don't ask, don't tell" - if you're a missionary position heterosexual then you're not searching for sexual partners in the desert of Iraq or mountains of Afghanistan but if you're a professed homosexual you're really some gay weirdo who's willing to fly to some hellhole and get shot at just to stalk your next sexual partner.

Bottom, line - be happy that your coworker can be open about being gay. And if you want to protect your kids, might want to change your search image of who the "bad guys" are.

[NathalieX66]

Who cares about McCain/McConnell/Boehner....they are as outmoded as the Murcury Grand Marquis, a car based on 45 year old technology,which has finally ended production this year.
The US house finally passed DADT before the newly elected Republican Majority gets sworn in, and the Senate is still controlled by Democrats.
The Canadian government accepts transgenders in their military. I can think of a half dozen close friends raised by gay/lesbian parents, who ended up hetero & married, and are about as boringly normal as it gets. . My mom's recent wedding, performed by an out-lesbian minister rippled no one. Yeah, sure trans folks have it harder. Even my gay friends don't get me. You can't complain until you fight the good fight. Nothing good happens until the fight is won.

[lingerieLiz]

I think that gays have worked to be reconized for years for who they are. While my family, friends, and neighbors know we don't talk about it. I also don't push it on people even though I openly wear women's tops and bras.

[Miss Misery]

Who cares about McCain/McConnell/Boehner....they are as outmoded as the Murcury Grand Marquis, a car based on 45 year old technology,which has finally ended production this year.
The US house finally passed DADT before the newly elected Republican Majority gets sworn in, and the Senate is still controlled by Democrats....

It's apparent that homosexuality/TG/CDing crosses party lines etc (quickly - J.Edgar Hoover, Larry Craig) it's just more politically unacceptable for those on the right to admit to it. I'm not sure those "fights" you speak of are ever really over (won). Things get better than they were but one has to be vigilant to maintain those gains - look at civil rights. Better but not done.

[Jenna Lynne]

everyone here seems to take the attitude that gays just suddenly gained acceptance by some miracle. Don't forget that the current tolerance towards gays is, first of all, far from universal, and secondly very hard won. There were many years of struggling and strife for gays to gain even the modicum of acceptance they currently enjoy. We, on the other hand, generally seem to prefer to stay under the radar.

I think Audrey hit the nail on the head. It's very disturbing that people like Barney Frank, while supporting gay rights, are stabbing transgenders in the back. If we want full equality, we need to stand up and be counted.

One of the obstacles is that so many crossdressers are married and have families of their own, who would quite likely be hurt by the discrimination and bigotry. Another obstacle is that if you see someone sitting in a coffee bar, let's say, you can't really tell that they're gay unless they're being obvious about it. I've had two or three gay male friends that I didn't even know until they told me! If you're transgendered, on the other hand, you're a lot more likely to get read, even by casual passers-by on the street. So there's more incentive to hide.

We're invisible. We need to become visible.