Outed at work....be careful out there...

[Helen 2]

As is typical during the winter's colder weather I underdress more often, occasionally wearing high-waist girdles and stockings under my slacks, dress shirt and sweaters.

Today in a meeting, I noticed the HR manager -an older lady and dear friend of many years whom I was sitting next to in the meeting- occasionally glancing down at my thighs and lo and behold, the outline of one my open-bottom girdle's garters was pretty visible through my pants leg.

The meeting ends and she asks me to stay behind a second. When we're alone, she says 'XXXXX, I've known you for years and have lots of both professional and personal admiration for you. Because of that and to prevent you from losing stature here, I have to ask you a question: are you wearing a girdle or garter belt and stockings under your male clothes?'

My jaw dropped to the table-top, I started perspiring a bit, stammered and said 'I am, and how do you know?'

Her response: 'my husband (who is deceased) was a cross-dresser and I could not help but notice the outline of a garter through your slacks. I don't care, but some people here might and I don't want your name and reputation here to be tarnished in any way, so be careful.'

I thanked her profusely, we hugged and she said that of course, it would stay between us which I trust completely will be as she said.

But, it could have been someone else with lesser intentions, so....be careful out there....

[sissystephanie]

You were extemely lucky in who noticed! You are also very right, it certainly could have been someone who did not think the way she did. Your warning is right on!!

[katrinakat]

close call, what r the odds though?

[Misty G]

Try wearing pantyhose or thigh highs instead as they normally don't show through slacks.

[Helen 2]

Try wearing pantyhose or thigh highs instead as they normally don't show through slacks.

Yeah.....will need to go that route, I guess. I dislike both pantyhose or thigh-highs, but looks like the safest course of action movong forward.
Odds?? Yeah, I thought about that too, but it's often said that at least one in 20 men cross-dress, so the odds aren't all that bad.

[Davina-Alba]

Try wearing pantyhose or thigh highs instead as they normally don't show through slacks.

Yes, but let's be honest - why should you?

Employment law differs all over the world but certainly in the UK it would not be legal to sack a man just for underdressing. There have even been some succesfull unfair dismissal claims from men who dressed completely as women, even in a few cases where the CD had resigned becuase of hostility from co workers which the courts said should not have been allowed by the employer.

Of course it takes a brave person to stand up to the pressures of being identified as a CD. I underdress and as far as I know only my PA at work is aware of this. I claim that my concern not to be outed is so as not to offend other people and that is partly true, but also I don't want to loose clients for the business either. I wouldn't get sacked (I own the company) but others would be affected.

[Maria_1969]

As masculine as my male side is (very much so)... I admit to others I know I wear tights to keep warm in winter and tell them long johns are very uncomfortable and they should try it. I just as as if I am so comfortable in my sexuality as a man it dont bother me. They do not know I go further.... I think. lol

Females usually say, thats so cool you are so comfortable as a man to admit it..... :-)

Maria

[Davina-Alba]

As masculine as my male side is (very much so)... I admit to others I know I wear tights to keep warm in winter and tell them long johns are very uncomfortable and they should try it. I just as as if I am so comfortable in my sexuality as a man it dont bother me. They do not know I go further.... I think. lol

Females usually say, thats so cool you are so comfortable as a man to admit it..... :-)

Maria

How true. I doubt anyone would really comment about me wearing tights in winter. However suspenders and stocking, like today, maybe less easily accepted.

[Jorja]

As masculine as my male side is (very much so)... I admit to others I know I wear tights to keep warm in winter and tell them long johns are very uncomfortable and they should try it. I just as as if I am so comfortable in my sexuality as a man it dont bother me. They do not know I go further.... I think. lol

Females usually say, thats so cool you are so comfortable as a man to admit it..... :-)

Maria

You see, being honest does pay off. :) So many of us freak out if someone notices something out of the "norm". Simply own up to it and act as if nothing is unusual about it. That is what I did for several years before going full time. It was a little scary while in the Navy but nothing was ever said. I still got my honorable discharge even if I was wearing panties.

[Maria_1969]

Just always remember... In Man mode, CONFIDENCE is EVERYTHING!!! Men respect it and women admire it.... I have my male side down, it’s my female side that needs grooming... LOL

I have even told others, with confidence, when its cold enough ill wear pantyhose under the tights and even another guys in the past have chimed in and admitting to doing so when hunting or on the motorcycle. Anyone that thinks long-johns are comfortable must be insane... if they were football players would not be wearing tights and wearing long-johns. Pantyhose and Tights also help with leg fatigue and circulation issues. You could always use that one too.

One problem with garters, the porn industry had made them a sexual object (aka: fetish attire) so people will most likely assume you have a strong fetish or cross-dress.

Maria

[Karren H]

I'm sure there are lots of co-workers that see way more than we think they see... And I'm sure many people know I crossdress including a few Sr Vps.. Just from comments they have made in passing...

[Jenny Gurl]

Yes, but let's be honest - why should you?

Employment law differs all over the world but certainly in the UK it would not be legal to sack a man just for underdressing. There have even been some succesfull unfair dismissal claims from men who dressed completely as women, even in a few cases where the CD had resigned becuase of hostility from co workers which the courts said should not have been allowed by the employer.

If they decide they want to sack you for it, they will use another reason so as to stay inside the law. Once they are determined to sack you, it's just a matter of time. I am glad it worked out well this time around for the OP. Amazing the lady that noticed was married to a CD, what are the odds?

[DebsUK]

Thing is, if this wonderful lady hadn't have had a hubby CD, would she have even noticed? I'd be surprised if she would. I know I, like most other t-girls have VERY keen T-dar, and anyone who knew a CD would probably have a pretty keen sense of this as well. I don't underdress, but early this year I was playing with some subtle makeup like radiance-boosting moisturiser, tinted chapstick nd some eyebrow pencil (I have red hair, so my eyebrows are blonde and almost invisible, so I touched them up very lightly with a very pale pencil) and I don't think anyone noticed

[Maria in heels]

I'm glad that you hugged her, because she deserves every last ounce of that from you...I hope that if something like this happens to me one day, I will have someone as understanding and friendly as you did...

[Suzette Muguet de Mai]

One has to be so careful about being exposed to the wrong people. Most people don't really care and that is nice, its just one or two that can make or break a quiet existence. If you are in charge of clients and are on a one to one relationship then it certainly should be kept as a business relationship. It is great she has alerted you, maybe she knows of some within the work environment who may not quite understand crossdressing and may become a little antagonistic towards you.

[Kathi Lake]

The same guy who borrowed my iPad a few months ago and saw this site borrowed it again today to see how one of his Flash animations looked on it. I guess I was browsing one of my threads earlier and my picture of me in the white turtleneck was up on the site. I know he knows. He knows I know he knows. Neither of us is going to say anything, you know?

Kathi

[suit]

The same guy who borrowed my iPad a few months ago and saw this site borrowed it again today to see how one of his Flash animations looked on it. I guess I was browsing one of my threads earlier and my picture of me in the white turtleneck was up on the site. I know he knows. He knows I know he knows. Neither of us is going to say anything, you know?

Kathi

I wonder how many hr.s he has spent reserching the subject since. has his attatude to you fluctuated ?
It might be interesting to see if he is more or less open minded for the ....exposuer?

[MiraM]

The same guy who borrowed my iPad a few months ago and saw this site borrowed it again today to see how one of his Flash animations looked on it. I guess I was browsing one of my threads earlier and my picture of me in the white turtleneck was up on the site. I know he knows. He knows I know he knows. Neither of us is going to say anything, you know?

Kathi

He does know that none of the iOS devices (iPhone, iPad) support Flash, right??? Maybe he was looking for pictures of you.

[Sara Jessica]

I'm sure there are lots of co-workers that see way more than we think they see...

So true. That's why I don't understand the concept of under-dressing in anything that can be revealed to the outside world. The outline of a bra and it's straps comes to mind and I've never given any thought to a garter belt (cuz it's not something I ever wear) but yeah, same difference, I guess.

It's one thing to underdress but doing so with either of those garments is at your peril should you not wish to be outed.


The same guy who borrowed my iPad a few months ago and saw this site borrowed it again today to see how one of his Flash animations looked on it. I guess I was browsing one of my threads earlier and my picture of me in the white turtleneck was up on the site. I know he knows. He knows I know he knows. Neither of us is going to say anything, you know?

Kathi

Awww, the elephant in your room now has someone to talk to!!! ;)

[JulieK1980]

When I was in the military, I went through cold weather training, and our instructor recommended pantyhose as a good way to conserve body heat. When I was in Iraq a few years later, knee highs were worn by almost all of us as they helped save our feet from developing blisters in the boots.

Sometimes there can be a good "explanation" to go along with stuff like that.

[SuzanneBender]

Ahhhh grasshopper one of the great quandries of our time. Is it truly underdressing if its seen or is it simply dressing with other clothes on outside. HMMMMMMMM.

I think HR manager is Josey Cool. She knows the rules and knows the stink that it would cause if someone started giving a proven employee a hard time about something that she is wearing under her clothing. It would be rough on you and rough on the company. However, I think she handled this situation with style and grace. The world would be a better place if we all hugged a little more.:hugs:

In today's military they have ruined our excuse for underdressing. Some smart crossdresser decided to start issuing super warm silk tops and bottoms. They feel great and are toasty warm, but its just not the same as wearing a nice pair of Legs Control Tops under your war gear. :sad:

[kayegirl]

OK So you don't like panty hose/tights, or knee highs, then why not try hold-up stockings. I find them a lot more comfortable than any garter belt, or girdle with suspenders, and there is definately no tell tale line to show through even the lightest linen trousers/pants.

[JulieK1980]

In today's military they have ruined our excuse for underdressing. Some smart crossdresser decided to start issuing super warm silk tops and bottoms. They feel great and are toasty warm, but its just not the same as wearing a nice pair of Legs Control Tops under your war gear. :sad:

What is the world coming too? :(

[pernille d]

nice to hear that some "HR" managers actually can do what there job is about:)

i have also often wonderd about garter straps/ clips showing through trousers . i have underdressed a few times under my thick jeans "yes" they can be noticed under thick clothing too but only if they are being looked for .

WATCH OUT with holdups too!!! i thought they would not show at all but one day i noticed that when i sat down i had two tight bands in my jeans where the hold up elastic was tight around my thighs, it was actually more notacable than that little bump from the garter strap and clip .

[Lainie]

Being sacked is not really the issue. The question is whether you want cross-dressing to define you in work relationships. Most people are amused or uncaring about eccentric strangers, but many would judge CDing to be sexual behavior, inappropriate for the office. Even if management "can't" sack a CD, performance and rewards could deteriorate unacceptably in a hostile environment.

Wish it were otherwise ...

[Jamie001]

Being sacked is not really the issue. The question is whether you want cross-dressing to define you in work relationships. Most people are amused or uncaring about eccentric strangers, but many would judge CDing to be sexual behavior, inappropriate for the office. Even if management "can't" sack a CD, performance and rewards could deteriorate unacceptably in a hostile environment.

Wish it were otherwise ...

This is exactly CDs will never make the progress that Gay people have made! They will cower in the closet for the next millenium.


When I was in the military, I went through cold weather training, and our instructor recommended pantyhose as a good way to conserve body heat. When I was in Iraq a few years later, knee highs were worn by almost all of us as they helped save our feet from developing blisters in the boots.

Sometimes there can be a good "explanation" to go along with stuff like that.

The best explanation for "stuff like that" is the TRUTH!! We need to be proud of who we are and stop cowering in the closet. Gays did not cower in the closet because they were proud of who they are and got out there and showed the world that they are proud and will not be pushed-down. Can we do the same, or are we just a bunch of wimps that will cower in the closet? Yes, there is the possibility that you will face resistance, or if you work in a biggoted redneck area that you may face some problems, or even loose your job, but that is what Gay folks faced. Do we have the courage to get out of the closet and be who we are? ..... I didn't think so.

[Melinda G]

Although it's your right to wear anything you want, a little common sense is in order regarding your place of employment. My old girlfriend had a crude saying, "You don't shit where you eat". She had a way with words. As another poster said, if they want to get rid of you they will find a way. A couple months of poor job performance reviews lays the groundwork, and establishes the legalities needed to get rid of you. It's not right, but nobody said life was fair.

[sherri]

Just because everybody doesn't notice does not mean that somebody won't.

[JulieK1980]

The best explanation for "stuff like that" is the TRUTH!! We need to be proud of who we are and stop cowering in the closet. Gays did not cower in the closet because they were proud of who they are and got out there and showed the world that they are proud and will not be pushed-down. Can we do the same, or are we just a bunch of wimps that will cower in the closet? Yes, there is the possibility that you will face resistance, or if you work in a biggoted redneck area that you may face some problems, or even loose your job, but that is what Gay folks faced. Do we have the courage to get out of the closet and be who we are? ..... I didn't think so.

Not gonna work in the US military lol! Just a quick way to find yourself discharged, and looking for a job. (Currently that applies to homosexuals as well.)

In this thread's context: Sure but it's still a risk to your job. If you have a family to raise, civil rights take a backseat. When Crossdressers have nothing to lose, then this will be relavent. Until then, caution is probably wiser.

[Emma England]

Although it's your right to wear anything you want, a little common sense is in order regarding your place of employment. My old girlfriend had a crude saying, "You don't shit where you eat". She had a way with words. As another poster said, if they want to get rid of you they will find a way. A couple months of poor job performance reviews lays the groundwork, and establishes the legalities needed to get rid of you. It's not right, but nobody said life was fair.

It depends on the length of employment.

If you have held the same job for many years with a near-perfect performance, how come all of a sudden, performance is poor (assuming you know you keep to the same standards). In a court, this sudden change would look odd to a lawyer.

[Sarasometimes]

If they decide they want to sack you for it, they will use another reason so as to stay inside the law. Once they are determined to sack you, it's just a matter of time. I am glad it worked out well this time around for the OP. Amazing the lady that noticed was married to a CD, what are the odds?

You beat me to this reply. We all know what we do (dressing in women's clothes) is harmless but many don't embrace that concept. If those in power don't like it or feel threatened by it they have many ways to solve their perceived "problem". Watch your step!

[jackielou]

hello and yes i wear panty hose for comfort and warmth in winter and i am an avid hunter i have done this for years as i did work outside and they were warm and cut the wind ,i always underdressed under my uniform in winter bra panties and hose and in summer just no pantyhose st6i bra and panties as i do to this very day really love a garterbelt and hose more but not practical for hunting

[Davina-Alba]

I've worn the ubiquitous garter belt-button-show-through-the-jeans-on-purpose 'quickie'. 99.99999999999% of the time, no one notices...~snigger~ My wife does, and it's like "Are these folks 'brain dead?"

I think that it's the fact that garters, hose, et al is so far removed from the collective consciousness that it's a lost emigue. The fascination with RHT and FF is semi-faceted....at best.

You might have a point but I've been spotted wearing suspenders quite often. Most people say nothing but if they do I usually manage to make light of it by saying that it keeps my legs warm but still allows easy access to go to the loo.

[Davina-Alba]

If they decide they want to sack you for it, they will use another reason so as to stay inside the law. Once they are determined to sack you, it's just a matter of time. I am glad it worked out well this time around for the OP. Amazing the lady that noticed was married to a CD, what are the odds?

Employment law in the UK is pretty well weighted to the employee. There have even been cases of male police officers being given permission to dress as females in some forces. Admitedly on the basis they were seeking to have a sex change but the law seems to support the right of a man to dress "appropriately" as a woman if he wants. But of course for most of us the legal situation isn't what we care about, rather we are worried about what people will say about us, particularly in many people's view the idea that if you wear female clothes you must be gay.

[Davina-Alba]

WATCH OUT with holdups too!!! i thought they would not show at all but one day i noticed that when i sat down i had two tight bands in my jeans where the hold up elastic was tight around my thighs, it was actually more notacable than that little bump from the garter strap and clip .

That is a very good point.

[Davina-Alba]

If you have held the same job for many years with a near-perfect performance, how come all of a sudden, performance is poor (assuming you know you keep to the same standards). In a court, this sudden change would look odd to a lawyer.

Absolutely correct. As an employer I know how difficult to get rid of poor performing workers and the records you need to keep to show that you have done everything possible to help the person improve their performance. If an employee has never been the subject of any such criticism and then suddenly is sacked no court would come to any conclusion other than it was unfair dismissal.

Further than that if the employee was "outed" either voluntarily ir not and suffered abusive comments from co workers and resigned they would have a case for what is called "constructive dismissal" as the employer has the legal duty to protect the rights and feelings of their workers.

This may not be the case in many other countries or US states but in the UK anyone with the courage to "come out" (for want of a better term) would have employment protection. There are some exceptions to this so, for example, it would probably not be felt suitable for a male teacher in a primary school to teach en femme.

[Stephanie Anne]

Everyone knows slacks and garters don't mix! It's a good thing you had someone who was sympathetic bring it up. I think it was very diplomatic how she phrased it.

I work in a more relaxed setting but if I was in an office setting I would conform to the dress code. You don't see many people in formal office wear dressing in clubbing clothes or workout gear just as you don't see many technicians with manicured long nails and heels (I have my nails done but most girls who work with their hands don't).

Remembers girls and boys, many people see crossdrssing as a fetish that belongs out of the workplace so always err on the side of caution when venturing forth. It is better to suffer through pantyhose than enjoy the thrill of garters ;)

[TxKimberly]

Phew . . .

[Shelly Preston]

HI Helen

Your HR manager is obviously aware how some would react on the company if they found out, and how much things might change even with the protection of the law
Since she had a crossdresser husband she spotted the tell tale sign more easily than most

She is trying to help you keep your secret and you never know it could lead to some interesting discussions in the future

[Helen 2]

HI Helen

Your HR manager is obviously aware how some would react on the company if they found out, and how much things might change even with the protection of the law
Since she had a crossdresser husband she spotted the tell tale sign more easily than most

She is trying to help you keep your secret and you never know it could lead to some interesting discussions in the future

Absolutely! As I noted before, she is indeed a good one....one of few HR Managers I have truly learned to respect and admire as a true 'business partner'.

It helps that we have a good -and long- relationship. She considers me one of the best 'people managers' of the senior staff, something that's been confirmed through various 360 degree feedback processes and surveys such as the Booth Survey of Leadership Practices all the staff mgrs went through a few years ago. She knows I'm a keeper and it was extremely thoughtful of her to act as she did. Savvy, too....not only would any adverse slant on the issue have caused unnecessary organizational turmoil but also, her prior experience with CD'ers (her husband) have made her one of the 'enlightened' ones.

Good learning experience for me, hope it is so for a few more of us...

[t-girlxsophie]

I am out to my whole shift at work,some knew by design others by accident and I have had no trouble from collegues or Management (well not to my face anyway) I suppose being there nearly 10 years may have helped,But i do know that Employment Law in the U.K. prohibits Discrimination in the workplace,Surely the only criteria thats counts is a persons ability to do the job

:hugs:Sophie

[TxKimberly]

The same guy who borrowed my iPad a few months ago and saw this site borrowed it again today to see how one of his Flash animations looked on it. I guess I was browsing one of my threads earlier and my picture of me in the white turtleneck was up on the site. I know he knows. He knows I know he knows. Neither of us is going to say anything, you know?

Kathi


ROFL - I suppoes that works just fine!



HI Helen

Your HR manager is obviously aware how some would react on the company if they found out . . .

Thats a real good point. If anyone is in a position to know how your management would react, it's her, and she has warned you to lay low. I think I'd follow that advice if I were you . . .

[suchacutie]

Hmmm, hang on a minute...

The woman was the wife of a crossdresser.....

Think about that for a minute. Many threads here have been devoted to "how many of us are there?". What is the odds that you happen to be sitting next to the wife of a crossdresser? Start multiplying the fraction of crossdressers times the fraction of married crossdressers time the fraction of married crossdresseres with supportive SOs...It's astronomically small...

Unless there are more of us than one might think! :)

tina

[Stephanie Anne]

Unless there are more of us than one might think! :)

In a city of 1 million there will between 50,000-100,000 transgendered oriented people. Think on that.

[Carmon]

I also love to wear foundation garments to work year round. I generally wear either pantyhose with a high waist girdle or an open bottom with support hose. In the winter I top off my under dress with a long line bra, camisole, and petti-pants. I find that wearing foundations tends to keep me focused and alert. I don't go out of my way to hide the fact that I under dress this way, but I don't flaunt it either. I have always believed that you should wear whatever makes you comfortable and not care what others think.

[Kathi Lake]

He does know that none of the iOS devices (iPhone, iPad) support Flash, right??? Maybe he was looking for pictures of you.Well, we have an app that essentially turns Flash into CSS-driven HTML5 pages. Works great! He just wanted to check it on a device (blissfully) incapable of Flash.


Awww, the elephant in your room now has someone to talk to!!! ;)Nope. We're obviously steadfastly not talking about it. We're even not going to talk about not talking about it.

:)

Kathi

[AKAMichelle]

That is the biggest risk to underdressing around people that don't know. I think if you want to do those things, then be prepared for the consequences.

[Melinda G]

It depends on the length of employment.

If you have held the same job for many years with a near-perfect performance, how come all of a sudden, performance is poor (assuming you know you keep to the same standards). In a court, this sudden change would look odd to a lawyer.
Hmmm. Better to not let it get that far. Something about "an ounce of prevention....."

[naye]

Odds?? Yeah, I thought about that too, but it's often said that at least one in 20 men cross-dress, so the odds aren't all that bad.

Really?, I always thought we were much less than a 5% (1 in 20) I thought maybe we were like 1% (1 in 100), wow, is nice to hear that we are at least a 5%, you make my day :)

[Melinda G]

I suspect a lot of men think about crossdressing, but are afraid to actually do it. They may be unsure of their masculinity, and afraid if they crossdress, they will become gay. I've seen guys cruising the womens shoe aisles in stores many times. I was in a DSW shoe store one time, when a guy picked up some womens black sandals and headed for the checkout.

[Vickie_CDTV]

One thing for the non-US folks to bear in mind is that in some US states employment is "at will". This means the employer can fire you for ANY reason AT ALL, or for that matter no reason at all. I have been in this situation myself, it did not involve crossdressing but the legal situation is the same. I was fired right before I was contractually eligible for a raise and health insurance because he didn't want to follow through and pay for it. Since he could fire me for any or no reason, there was nothing I could do (and I would have sued if it was possible.)

Anyways, the GG employee who caught the glimpse of the garters showing was right, it is important to protect your reputation, and she probably feared this for her husband. One could claim they needed to wear heavy support stockings due to DVT or such (who wants to deal with an ADA lawsuit?), but if they think you are wearing them just because you like them they can make up some other excuse to get rid of you. That really is the worst case of course, but still be careful.

[Emma England]

Really?, I always thought we were much less than a 5% (1 in 20) I thought maybe we were like 1% (1 in 100), wow, is nice to hear that we are at least a 5%, you make my day :)

On another message board, it is said that 36% of men wear women's underwear.

[Vikki Vixen]

Employment law in the UK is pretty well weighted to the employee. There have even been cases of male police officers being given permission to dress as females in some forces. Admitedly on the basis they were seeking to have a sex change but the law seems to support the right of a man to dress "appropriately" as a woman if he wants. But of course for most of us the legal situation isn't what we care about, rather we are worried about what people will say about us, particularly in many people's view the idea that if you wear female clothes you must be gay.

The quote about police forces in th UK is true, in fact the policy in my force actually mentions crossdressing and notes it would be disciplinable action if anyone bullies or harasses a transvestite. Negative comments would be seen as recordable 'hate crime' and therefore constitute gross misconduct. This is pretty standard in all police forces as discrimination of any kind is not tolerated.
A friend of mine who I admire greatly was one of the fore runners in this regard coming out whilst employed by a force well over 25 years ago, at that time some members of the force were openly racist and homophobic so she would have had a torrid time. However it is the strength of people like her that ensure policies and attitudes are changed over time. I mainly wear a uniform at work so don't wear any female clothes but on non uniform days I could if I wished.

[charlie]

Hello Helen!
Best keep your dressing out of work from now on if people knowing you are a CD bothers you. If she should tell someone, who tells someone........and then they see the underdressing work could become unpleasant if you really caare what other people think. You are wearing clothes...period. You get to chose what is underneath.

[Lilaka Ananda]

I imagine there's scuttlebutt about me at work, but I don't really care. The fact is I present as a perfectly normal male at work and respond professionally as my job requires. What I do elsewhere is nobody's business, and they can say whatever they want behind my back.

[Jamie001]

I imagine there's scuttlebutt about me at work, but I don't really care. The fact is I present as a perfectly normal male at work and respond professionally as my job requires. What I do elsewhere is nobody's business, and they can say whatever they want behind my back.

That is the attitude that all CDs should have. Don't let them impact your personal life. They don't own your time when you are not at work. Many CDs don't understand that.

[Sara Jessica]

I imagine there's scuttlebutt about me at work, but I don't really care. The fact is I present as a perfectly normal male at work and respond professionally as my job requires. What I do elsewhere is nobody's business, and they can say whatever they want behind my back.

True, what you do outside of work is nobody's business. But if you present as a perfectly normal male, why would there be any talk at all behind your back?

It's more of an issue for those of us who "leak femme", coining a phrase from Veronica. Speaking for myself, how much can I push the envelope before I inadvertenty out myself?


That is the attitude that all CDs should have. Don't let them impact your personal life. They don't own your time when you are not at work. Many CDs don't understand that.

It's not up to us how the opinions and reactions of others will affect our personal lives. Your advice Jamie has good intentions but it's reckless. Everyone, whether CD or TS or anywhere in between has to take stock of their own situation and do what's best for them. Encouragement is good, cheerleading is not. There is no one-size-fits-all when it comes to disclosure.

Unfortunately, this also speaks to why there is so much destruction to career, family and social relationships when the transition thing comes into play. Yes, we need to make strides in society when it comes to being out but not everyone is able to be a trailblazer in setting an example for the world.

[Starla]

Your advice Jamie has good intentions but it's reckless. Everyone, whether CD or TS or anywhere in between has to take stock of their own situation and do what's best for them. Encouragement is good, cheerleading is not. There is no one-size-fits-all when it comes to disclosure.

Unfortunately, this also speaks to why there is so much destruction to career, family and social relationships when the transition thing comes into play. Yes, we need to make strides in society when it comes to being out but not everyone is able to be a trailblazer in setting an example for the world.

Bravo. Everyone's situation is unique, and CDers need to resist the temptation to follow someone else's path, and others need to avoid pushing them farther than they are ready to go. I am a textbook example of what happens when you go too far, too fast, make some wrong turns, and then continue to stubbornly stomp on the accelerator instead of pulling into a rest area to double-check the map. I've known many TG folk whose lives were dramatically improved and brightened by carefully exploring their genderness; I've also known a good many whose "full steam ahead" attitude left broken relationships, ruined careers, and emotional breakdown in their wake.

So, for those still finding their way: learn and gain encouragement from the successes of others, but consider your own individual situation (and count the potential cost) before taking things to another level. And for those who have found their "niche," encourage and counsel those still struggling without pressuring them to be just like you.

[Lilaka Ananda]

True, what you do outside of work is nobody's business. But if you present as a perfectly normal male, why would there be any talk at all behind your back?

I've been very active in online debate, and have acquired some enemies. They spent hours poring through the thousands of words I've put online over the last 15 years, and found some where I discussed crossdressing as a spiritual practice. They reposted that online, so when anyone does a search on my legal name, it comes up. I work in Silicon Valley, where people Google your name automatically. Ultimately, this has been a good thing, because it has forced me to get over what others might think about me.

[Rianna Humble]

Employment law in the UK is pretty well weighted to the employee. There have even been cases of male police officers being given permission to dress as females in some forces. Admitedly on the basis they were seeking to have a sex change but the law seems to support the right of a man to dress "appropriately" as a woman if he wants.

In that case, they were not "men dressing as a woman" but transwomen, dressing appropriately. UK employment/equality laws do not grant a person the right to cross-dress. The Equality Act does, however, protect the right of transsexuals not to be discriminated against or harrassed on the grounds of their gender reassignment.

[Starla]

I've been very active in online debate, and have acquired some enemies. They spent hours poring through the thousands of words I've put online over the last 15 years, and found some where I discussed crossdressing as a spiritual practice. They reposted that online, so when anyone does a search on my legal name, it comes up. I work in Silicon Valley, where people Google your name automatically. Ultimately, this has been a good thing, because it has forced me to get over what others might think about me.

That's all well and good for someone with your attitude and confidence, but for someone who's not ready to be so outed, or in a sensitive work or family situation, the results could be devastating. Regardless of how you feel or how it worked out for you, whoever reposted that essay, without permission, in a manner that could be linked with your legal name, was wrong, wrong, WRONG.

[Lilaka Ananda]

whoever reposted that essay, without permission, in a manner that could be linked with your legal name, was wrong, wrong, WRONG.

They were shooting for maximum maliciousness. They failed. I'm thriving.