My issue with LGBT clubs

[blondetasha]

Hey all,

You may have just seen my post about finally getting out which was a great experience and well needed, and I hope to do it again very soon but...

...heres a little twist for ya.

Whilst I appreciate that clubs on this scene provide a great platform for the like-minded to get out and maybe give us a sense of belonging - im a little undecided as to whether this is exactly for me.

I consider CD'in an important part of my life - however there are more interesting things about my personality. I feel like the only thing I really had in common with the people in the club is that I crossdress or belong to this community. Though I was asking other attendees many questions about there interests and personal life - I did not get one person ask about my hobbies, or personal life. It was just about dressing and acceptance.

What about the fact that Im a musician, i work in media, i love to travel... nope not one question. I learnt about other people because i was asking, but not one question actually about myself in return.

Does this make sennse? Its early days for me getting out - and I dont really know what my opnion is, just throwing this out for discussion!

Tash
x

[siantv2003]

Think you pose an interesting question - having never been to a club, my response can only be considered as an opinion: Whilst a large portion of the people who attend these clubs are very open about their sexuality and have no problem telling others about their attendence, there is probably an equally large portion who arent comfortable and dont tell - they attend in secret to get away from their day to day lives.
As you said, these clubs provide a great platform for like minded folk to meet and provide a sense of belonging but, like most clubs, thats where it stops. We go there to have a good time with some mates and thats it. If you think about the 'other side', I cant think of that many clubs I've been to where there is a genuine interest in who people are or what they do and I can only imagine that its the same in LGBT scene. I dont think its personal, I think its probably more to do with circumstance. For that type of interaction, youre probably better off in a support group that arranges more 'conventional' social gatherings like dinners etc.

Just my 2 cents, definitely be interested to hear what otehrs have to say

[Gerrijerry]

Having been a member of several clubs and the LGBT I can tell you that if you need support that is where you want to go. They do not ask about your personal information. unless you share it, because members understand that many simply are there to have a place to go to. They want to be themselves for a few hours. They can not for hundreds of different reasons come out to everyone. Some can of course but that is there choice. The groups are for understanding and acceptance of choice not to look into each members closet and let the world know about there private lives. Typically most CD's are totally or partially in the closet because they need to be for there own personal reasons. TS girls are typically out and learning to deal with life in there new identity there families and friends work know about them. Gay and lesbian have the same issues some are open and out some are not.
So especially being that you are a new member, they will not ask for private information unless you need to talk about yourself and want that information known. Support is what these groups are about. NOT information gathering.

[sandra-leigh]

I agree with Gerrijerry's conclusions. LGBT clubs and especially crossdressing clubs are sensitive about members' privacy, so there is tendency not to ask specific personal questions (and not to answer with specifics if one is asked.)

[noeleena]

Hi,

We all come from different back grounds so ill come with one that did not include the bar or trans scene, it was just not my thing . tho i have been to four different ones over 13 years.

Im a woman so that ruled me out as most are less than half my age. tho there were a few my age . okay 63.

my interests are building cabinat makeing & wood tunring . dressing in Edwardian wear 1900 to 1910. & Renassiance 1400 to 1700 & Archery. , familys & our 3 grown up kids , & grand kids 8 off .im allso in our scottish soc .
So how many like you would be talking about those things as youv found more than likely none.

So ill stay with women & we have lots to talk about any way.

As an idear why dont you join some womens groups or different groups that cover your interests & then youll meet more people ,

We have people we know who play & sing & i meet them & we have lots of talks iv been in choirs & play in bands .

any way just a bit about my life with people around here where we live.

...noeleena...

[Kate Simmons]

Clubs are mostly a place to go for freedom or escapism, so many CD folks will naturally gravitate towards those subjects when they go there, especially if they get little opportunity otherwise.:)

[Kelly DeWinter]

Wow, Your experience is so opposite of what I have found. Most of the people I've met at clubs are wonderful, We chat about a lot of things, hobbies,intrests,where we live,music, what we like etc.. Is it a cultural thing in the UK ? Mayby it depends on how you approach the topic , who you are with, have they just met you, that sort of thing. And clubs can be like being back in high school, you have the cliques, the long timers, the in crowd, the freshmen and the seniors, whos popular and whos not.

[nikkijo]

im with the op... the cd friendly clubs bring out the most annoying members of the lgbt society... if the clubs that are part of that scene didnt have dollar drinks i wouldnt even go to them... because all i do is spend the entire night avoiding the people whO dress to get themselves off, or the peOpel who spend the whole time wanting advice, or explaining that i dont need 50 hrs o makeup and prep time a week to be nikki...

the most annoying part of an lgbt club to me is the closeted dresser who is out for the first time.. and is way over done,looks like bozo the clown who think they pass... and will spend all night telling you so...

as far as dressing and acceptance.... really easy......dont make it an issue and people dont care.... but i u go around saying look at me look at me you are gunna have people get out their torches and pitch forks....

i mean sure your gunna have questions the first few times out but mostly if you dress like any other female and have any bit of acting skill.. you can fool 90% of the general public 90% of the time...

[PretzelGirl]

I believe I am seeing two different interpretations of the OP. One is where club is a place to go out at night and drink and dance. The other is club in terms of a group that gets together at some location and just socializes (i.e.: Tri-Ess, Michelle's get togethers in Denver).

I think the OP is talking about drinking/dancing clubs since she references her night out. I could see these not being a place where people meet to get intimate in their knowledge of each other. Some go out just because it is a safe place and then let theirselves unwind. Others want the dancing. I am not a club person, but this opinion (again, if I get the reference right) about clubs doesn't surprise me. I picture them as noisy and not really setup for in deep "getting to know you" type of chatting.

Now if you are talking about the other kind, then I would be surprised as the "get together" clubs are meant for support so discussing everything in life would be a natural thing and almost a "must".

[JiveTurkeyOnRye]

I have had the same feeling about TG clubs. In fact, the very first time I went out was to a TG friendly event in Columbus, my hometown (it was the URNotAlone T*party) and once I got over the initial excitement of being out in women's clothes, I got so bored that I didn't go out again for about six months and even thought it was something I didn't want to do again. The next time I went out was over six months later, when my GG friend and I went to a lesbian bar she was fond of, and it was a lot more fun because now it was just me hanging out with my friends but dressed in pretty clothes. I also found that the events tend to be rather cliquish, you get the occasional person who realizes you're kind of new and comes to support you, but I'd see groups of people who seemed to be friends and I'd try to say hi and get pretty much ignored. The thing that sucks about that is the general support conversation tends to me very much about "isn't it great to be out dressed as who we are?" and it is, but how long can we really talk about that, and how many times in one night do we need to?

I've been to TG specific events a handful of other times, and have never really had a spectacular time. I've always had more fun going out and doing something I'd really like to do and just dressing the way I do. Having said that, I have had a lot of fun hanging out in gay/lesbian/mixed bars with friends of mine. By that I mean a venue where how I'm dressed isn't an issue but it's also not the reason for the evening.

The truth is though, I feel others in the past are correct in saying that TG events are just bigger closets, and if you really want to be able to combine crossdressing with the things you also enjoy, eventually you just have to get comfortable with being in the places where stuff you like is, while being dressed the way you like. You have to go to the mountain, the mountain won't put on a wig and hang out in that one bar.

[Jilmac]

Tasha, did you offer any information about your interests? I have been to several LGBT clubs and learned a lot about others, their personal lives and interests by offering information about myself. Many in the LGBT community wonder why we enjoy dressing, as do those in the straight community, which may be a reason for them to concentrate on our dressing rather than ask questions about our various other interests. Communication is a two way street, try offering information about your interests, hobbies, occupation and personal life, the feedback might surprize you.

[Karren H]

Like I always say... Liking to wear the same clothing is no basis for a good relationship.... If it were I'd be friends with everyone that wore black male wingtip shoes and most of you girls would belong to the ugly women's jeans of the month club!! I've meet many local crossdresses and unless there's something more than just crossdressing... Friendships don't work well...

[cindym5_04]

I talk and chat with a bunch of other cd's and we talk about pretty much anything- whether it's cding or about "hey, did you get that promotion at work" or football...generally whatever our interests are. My wife and I go out to LGBT clubs randomly and here's the thing- we aren't there to meet a bunch of people or try to hook up with anyone! Sometimes some of my other cd friends will meet us down there. We hang out and drink and dance and talk about whatever. The general rule about clubs is that, for the most part, regular clubs or LGBT clubs, people that are there aren't really going there to "get to know you". Sorry to burst your bubble...but that's been my experience...and for the most part, honestly, I don't want to get to know them either.

[Annie D]

Keep trying! I think that most of us who have gone out to alternative type places have had similar experiences to what you have described but sometimes if you go to the same place on a different night or even time of day/night, you meet different people. Additionally, once you establish yourself as a "regular", the people you meet will accept you more readily and exchange the type of relationship/conversation that you are seeking. Good luck! None of us met anyone of real significance on our first encounter, it took some time to develop into what we wished or wanted.

[donnalee]

Tasha, did you offer any information about your interests? I have been to several LGBT clubs and learned a lot about others, their personal lives and interests by offering information about myself. Many in the LGBT community wonder why we enjoy dressing, as do those in the straight community, which may be a reason for them to concentrate on our dressing rather than ask questions about our various other interests. Communication is a two way street, try offering information about your interests, hobbies, occupation and personal life, the feedback might surprize you.This is very important. Frankly, I consider the grilling that many people believe is conversation is the height of rudeness.When I inadvertently am saddled with one of these boors, I make my excuses and get away as quickly as possible.

[Christy_M]

I generally feel uncomfortable if someone is quizzing me about myself but that has to do with low self esteem. I'm not sure if others have this afliction but part of me going out and being around people is so that I get used to being in my own skin and can create relationships where it is easier to come out of this shell. I have met some really great people at LGBT places and they have done wonders of letting me bloom in my own time. It isn't that I am not interested in them or their lives but I still haven't figured out my place and they let me do that while they go on about their discussions around me. As I get more confortable, I interject into the conversations. It is so much easier to answer questions in this state than it is to try and spark up a conversation.

I wouldn't say this is specific to the LGBT establishments. I think anywhere you go there will be people who don't feel comfortable and try to participate in discussions by answering questions or adding comments into inacuous conversations without trying to be the center of the conversations by asking specific, pointed questions that forces attention back. Of course these are only my opinions. I think in any case, it is great that you are able to get out and about and be comfortable with yourself. You are doing a great thing by giving others the opportunity to participate in conversations and help them come out of their shells a little bit by answering your questions.

[Diane Smith]

My general guideline (however I'm dressed) is that if you want a friend to talk to at a club, you'd better bring them with you. Which can make it a perfectly fine place to meet with people you know already, but the chances of making a new acquaintance with any depth to the relationship or conversation are slight.

- Diane

[JennyA]

Is anyone in NE ohio. I need to find a club. I'm going to start googling now.

[sherri]

Tasha, I know what you mean, but I'm wondering if the clubs are much different than anywhere else, really. I have found that most non-TGs, even the tolerant ones, even gays and lesbians, do not understand crossdressing, why we do it, how we do it, yada yada, so if you strike up an acquaintance, you have to answer a lot of questions before you can move on to anything else. Sorta goes with the territory. As for club interaction, ime people aren't really there for heart-to-heart discussions, they're there to drink and dance and flirt, the one exception being gossip. Folks love to gossip.

Regarding TG interaction, you touch on a pet peeve of mine. It's nice to talk about TG stuff enough to understand where the other person is coming from, and of course it's fun to talk about clothes and stuff, but it doesn't take much of that before I'm wishing we could move on to other subject matter. Realistically though, the odds are very high that it is CDing that brings you together in the first place, so there's no real reason to expect that you have anything else in common. I mean, if it is difficult to find kindred spirits among the general population, it will be among sister dressers, too.

I think JiveTurkey has it about right. If you wanna get past the omg-I'm-a-gurl syndrome, you have to go to the mountain, e.g. seek out companions on the basis of common interest, which prolly means stepping out of your comfort zone and mingling in mainstream society, or at least within special interest groups not based on gender expression.

[blondetasha]

Wow, what a response! Im glad you found it of interest.

Not had a chance to digest all of the information yet however.. just in response to Jilmac..
Yep, as I would anywhere else I go I started by asking people where they are from, what they do for a living etc etc. To me that what meeting people is all about, its not 'Information Gathering' as somebody earlier put it. Its simply human interaction, and getting to know the real person, not just the fact that they CD. This is my humble view of things. Im sure this will change as I get to know people more, and maybe see the same face for a second time.

The first night at the club ther were only a couple if crossdressers and I enjoyed it much more with the rest of the community. I felt most uncomfortable the following night when there were many more CD''s and the talk was just about 'I came out 1 year ago', 'my wife thinks this' etc etc. Thats fine, but not the experience I am looking for. It was more like a therapy group than a night out...

Anyhow, like i say it was my first couple of nights out and ive not made up my mind yet how i fit in!!

This is all good feedback, thanks!

[Emily Ann Brown]

Karren,

You hit it on the head. My sister friends (Lilli, Tracie, Stef, Lauren, Sasha, Darlene, Sandi..and yes, you Karren) are people I have a lot in common beside our feminine side. And I talk to my friends a lot along the week. They are my friends, I enjoy our conversations.

Em

[Lynn Marie]

I'd never even considered going to an LGBT club before my first time out of the closet with a delightful CD met here on the forum. What I felt amazing about the place was that so many were just so completely comfortable about their sexuality. They'd accepted their own biggest fears and now had nothing more to hide, at least inside the club. Not having to hide is a wonderful feeling and most of the patrons of LGBT clubs understand that freedom. Now I do too.

I've met fun and interesting and talented folks there. I'm accepted there and treated well. I tip very well, so the help and owners are always glad to see me. And now that they've gotten to know me a little, I feel well liked whether I tip or not. I find the ggs in the place to be fascinating and fun to play with and tease. They are always ready to hang out for awhile and talk. And they have no fears talking about thier sexual appetites and a little about their personal lives. It seems that when dressed, women find me less threatening and easy to talk to. That's great fun.

Don't expect, ever, to be instant good buddies with other CDs you meet. We cover a great amount of territory in our personal interests, ages, and even how we dress. If you find a real friend or two in the CD community, you are doing well indeed. Othewise, try to be one of the people who are willing to encourage others and not worry about them selves. Those that encourage are angels.

[sandra-leigh]

Don't expect, ever, to be instant good buddies with other CDs you meet.

Quite. And don't expect to understand why it is you don't "mesh" with someone who might enjoy a number of things you also like. The lack of connection could have to do with differences between you that you might not come to understand for years, perhaps until you have come to consciously realize things about yourself that you knew instinctively; the insights so gained might prove to be important to your life.

[DaniPat]

Off point on the actual post, but I find these insights into social interaction in alternative clubs fascinating. Since I have never been outside of my apartment while dressed I have no salient opinion to give. I have enjoyed the insightful information given about whether you go to an alternative club to meet friends for dancing and fun or to make friends and have fun. As I see it if you don't have any CD friends and go to a LGBT club you may meet people who may become your friends but if you have no intelligent interaction, at first, how can you become friends in the first place. Of course if you continue to go to the same club eventually you will meet a regular who may become a friend, without any interaction at first anyway. So what is the point of my post? I really don't know, I just thought it was fascinating to hear others opinions about alternative clubs and their experiences. Is there a sticky post in the forum just for this topic?

TTFN, kisses.

[Rachel Morley]

I dont think its personal, I think its probably more to do with circumstance. For that type of interaction, youre probably better off in a support group that arranges more 'conventional' social gatherings like dinners etc.
That's what I was going to say. Support groups are more about peer to peer chat which might include details that don't pertain to dressing. Plus I agree with what Gerrijerry said. In my experience people might not want to ask (pry?) as some CDers don't like talking about their boy lives when dressed en femme (I sure don't). Why would I want to go to a crossdressing support group and talk about guy stuff?

However, having said that, you did say that you asked them and they shared knowledge of their particular hobbies and interests, so it seems odd that they wouldn't ask you back about yours. :thinking:

[Debb]

Meh, I think going to a club, TG, LGBT, whatever .. is what it is.

Getting together with a bunch of folks who have this one thing .. CDing .. in common leads to, well, talking about crossdressing. Being the new person in a group, if you wanna talk, you gotta have the temerity to talk. It might be considered rude, but it's not hard to politely move the subject around to something that interests you.

But yeah, clubs are for clubbing, forums are for foruming, small groups of friends are for talking about common interests.

[Kayla Shadows]

Im still unsure of what you mean by club,support group type thing or a actual club but, I enjoy being out. A lot of girls love the interaction with others and its a great opportunity to speak about the life.For some girls this is their hobby so they are gonna want to talk about it. There is going to be many that are more focused on all of this than anything else. For me,this isnt everything Im about so I like to talk about different things. I have met some great girls and we talk about anything and everything. Some of my absolute best times out were with my local and not so local friends hanging out at clubs. It was like being in high school again.Wild,fun,out of control times. Good stuff.

There are some things I dont go for though.Help is always good.Ya know,walk like this,work on your voice like this,hold this like this..its all fine.Just dont tell me how to dress.One person was like,"you should get away from the goth thing and be more femme".Others dont think you should wear jeans..Barbie has her mold and so do I.Im here to be the woman I am. What other girls do is great but,Im not them.Nor do I think anybody should be anything else other than the person they are.

In my short time around I have learned :

Just because somebody dresses it doesnt mean they arent going to judge you.

Just because somebody dresses it doesnt mean they are going to be nice.

There is a lot of bs out there that I dont buy into.Girls have their opinions but,not for sale!

[Cari]

Its always hard for the new girl to fit in, even in a support group, give it some time.

Until folks get to know you a bit, conversation will stay on the obvious topic of dressing.
Its sort of the CD equivalant to "how do like the weather" or "how about that sports team".

In time people open up and you find some common ground, expect it to happen a bit slower especially if you are close to home.
Your first time out they are checking you out, once they see you a few times they will open up.
In a way you just created the ultimate stranger and dropped in from nowhere. It really is your first nite out.

If you can find a sponsored nite out it is much easier, many clubs will assign you a big sister if you ask.
Their job is to kinda check you out and introduce you around.
The price is usually that some day down the road; you get asked to be a big sister.

[AKAMichelle]

I understand your issue with LGBT clubs. I don't seem to fit in those situations either. But I will tell you that it takes some times before you are comfortable enough to do everything in mainstream places. I am at that point in my life that I would prefer to do everything in mainstream places.

[NathalieX66]

I belong to two support groups, and I've made good friendships. The thing is that, in a few cases, some of these girls think that an lgbt club is safe haven for them, and I think it's unfortunate that they don't attempt to go out into the mainstream. I think self-acceptance is still a big issue for them, and it's easy to live life on the "down low" in a crossdresser-type way, in a secret environment where they won't be ridiculed or spotted in public. Gay bars? You're not gay?...what's the point in going to these establishments anyway if you're not gay? I've gone to a number of lgbt & gay establishments, and asked myself "why am I here if I'm not looking for a hookup?"

There is nothing more that I enjoy than going to the same places I always go , that regular common folk go, but going there en femme. I may be slightly different than the average Joe or Jane, but I have not had one single bad incident yet. Sometimes, I've been clocked, sometimes not. Either way, I'm doing what I always wanted to do. I can only wish I can do it more often, and I can't wait until the next time I go out.
The fear & humiliation factor has now left me since I have been out in public for almost one year, just about once, two, three times a month. I'm having too good a time. Yes, I've accepted myself . It happens. ...it happened to me. :)

[Chickhe]

When I think about this, even when I used to go out to clubs when I was younger, I never did so alone... it was always with one or more friends. I think it works better if you make friends first, then hit the clubs later.

[carolinewalker_2000]

I have had similar experiences. Many CD'ers you meet when out only seem to want to talk about dressing and their main objective seems to be to appear as "girly" as possible. Whilst I can understand this - (indeed have behaved in a similar way myself on occasion!) - it can be frustrating if you are trying to genuinely get to know new people.

I can only encourage you to persist in trying to carry on a regular conversation about broader views and interests. I have found that, eventually, you can draw all but the most self absorbed out of their shell. Good luck!!

[Sally24]

Between the need for secrecy and the difficulty in hearing anything in the loud environment (at least for us older girls) a club is not an instant place of sharing. If you become a regular than things can change.