Third person references

[DAVIDA]

I see people on the forum referring their dressed selves in the third person.
I don't want to sound like I am putting anyone down, I just don't understand.
Do some of you see yourself as totally different entities depending on what you are wearing?
Personally, I don't see any difference in myself no matter what I have on.
I feel like the same person either way.
It is just who I am.
Like I said, I am not knocking anybody's choice, I just don't get the difference.
Sorry if anyone is offended by this.

[Raychel]

Ahhhh, The many colors of the world.

From what I can assume from what I have read over the years on the forum. There are those that do actually think, act, and even have different preferences in sexual partners while they are dressed.

Just one of the difference between people, I guess. I also find this a bit iof a challenge to believe. But I am sure that there are people in the world that also find it difficult to believe that grown men actually prefer to dress in womens clothes.

I am like you.The same person dressed the way I prefer. I VERY rarely even ware a wig. SOme people would think that to be strange too. But that is just who I am. The same person anyways.:2c:

[Gerrijerry]

It is to me, just simply a persons ability to accept themselves. If they have a problem with it then they seperate the male and female parts two different people of themselves. Those that accept and finally come to accept themselves and that is not easy to do. Say I, me etc. That is why I always called my self Gerrijerry. The same person either way. Gerri and Jerry sound the same just spelling is different the person in me is still the same. Happy to say Feminine all the time because to me that is what I am. No matter how I dress. Pants skirt or dress.

[Daintre]

I have always seem myself as Jenni, not part Jeff and part Jenni, but 100% Jenni who at time was not allowed to show that feminine part of me. I don't think one way in drab and another in femme, I am simply me with all the warts.

[Karren H]

Karren doesn't like to refer to herself on the third person... Zarren concurs...

[Rogina B]

Don't read so much into it!!Some people use their fem name to quicken the story or telling of a situation.Based on some of the posts[alpha males,etc] SOME PEOPLE do act and think differently because they have to or want to. It isn't any big deal..one size doesn't fit all!!

[DAVIDA]

I guess that David does see Davida as silly at times.:straightface:
But on the other hand, Davida thinks that David is just a fat, bald, old fart:heehee:

[Kate Simmons]

I guess some folks just hesitate to take ownership of themselves Hon.:)

[PortiaHoney]

I guess it's the nature of living 2 seperate lives that the individual personalities will develop.

It's twice the fun and you can keep yourself company. At least there is always someone to have an intelligent conversation with.

[Fab Karen]

I guess some folks just hesitate to take ownership of themselves Hon.:)

& if you don't, someone else might ( Though I guess some would enjoy being taken out on the leash for "walkies" ):)

[Charleen]

I'm not schizophrenic, yes I am, no I'm not, yes I am............

[nikkijo]

nikki is a totally different personality than that of nick, so when she takes ver its only fair she gets seen as her own person... she gets bitchy if you dont...

[noeleena]

Hi.

Yes we are all different thats for sure.
Iv never seen my self as any other than who i am . & what you see is really what you get i prefered womens clothes tho had to wear male ones under protest , just hated it. yet i was no different then at 10 or now at 63 ,

Just im not bound by any male clothes not any more ,
& as to refering to my self as male or female or different names i would never have thought of that.

& my refernce is in my name, birth name , noel to noeleena. so i cover both male & female ,tho noel is female any way. as well.

...noeleena...

[SuzanneBender]

I just wish Suzanne would stop laughing at H's love handles when he looks in the mirror in the morning. :heehee::heehee::heehee::heehee::heehee:

It takes a long time for those of us that have fought this for more than a few years to accept who we are. Once I accepted the fact that I look at the world out of a womans eyes I was able to stop referring to myself in the third person when I was in femme mode.

Now if I can convince those other voices in my head to stop referring to themselves in the third person....:eek:

[Suzie S.]

Not stepping on any toes Davida. There is no third person in my life, not even a second really. I'm Jay, that's it! No ifs ands or buts. Jay wears different clothes sometimes. That simple. :) I think of "Suzie" as no more than a CB handle, or a nickname, so to speak. Before this forum, there was no female name. I just picked the name when I joined here. Using the name "Suzie" is all in good fun, not really any deep meaning to it.

Have I had fleeting fantasies about actually being female, well yeah sometimes, but its fantasy for me. I've been Jay for 46 years, hopefully at least 46 more! :daydreaming: That's reality!!! The other reality are the wonderful friendships I've make here. :hugs:

[JiveTurkeyOnRye]

Jay took the words right out of my mouth. Even when I dress in full femme mode, I still usually introduce myself to people as Ryan or Rye. I only ever really used the name Alyssa as a screen name or as a shorthand for quickly referring to myself dressed up, or as a codeword in public if I was talking about buying something for myself before I was so outward about it. I'd say to a friend "Oh I should get that for Alyssa." Now I say to the SA, "Can I try this on?"

I had actually retired the name Alyssa entirely after coming out, but have recently revived it for the purposes of having an alias when I pose for the risque photos I do for the gentleman's relish. In that case though it feels more like a stage name.

[Jocelyn Quivers]

Totaly different and better looking entity. :thumbsup:

[Rachel Morley]

Hi Davida,

I'm the same as you. I never refer to myself in the third person when dressed as somehow a different person. If I were to do that it would feel like I am betraying myself or whatever .... it would to me at least.

Actually, there is just one scenario that this sort of thing happens and that is, say my wife and I go shopping and I happen to be in boy mode and we are standing in front of rack of dresses in a busy store and there are other shoppers nearby and when I say nearby, I mean like standing right next to us going through the same dress rack. Then Marla will say "this would be cute for Rachel" instead of "this would be cute for you". If there are other shoppers around but she thinks they are out of earshot then she will always say "this would be cute for you" .. which is what both of us prefer.

[PretzelGirl]

I am one that also finds it interesting that someone can look at themselves as two different persons. You could probably get into a whole set of analysis of how a person feels inside and how they refer to themselves. If they feel like they are in the middle gender-wise, shouldn't they feel the same all the time no matter how they are dressed? But if someone feels all male but loves dressing, would it be true that they are creating a different persona when they dress so they might have two personalities so to speak?

I know one way I might muddy the water is I will refer to Sue as a way of saying when I am dressed. It isn't a change of mindset, just clothes. So I could say something like "I was out with my daughter shopping and I was in Sue mode." Just my way of saying en-femme instead of en-homme.

[Starla]

Yeah, this thread is really indicative of how different we all are. Some are almost completely different persons in male vs. female mode, with different personalities, hobbies, or even habits. These are the sort of CDers you might hear describe indulging in their female persona as "taking a vacation from myself" -- for them, the appeal is leaving everything in their "normal" lives behind, and becoming someone else for a few hours, or a day, or a weekend.

Others are exactly the same regardless of how they are dressed, just prettier as women. :D

And some are an amalgam of masculine and feminine in both modes, with balances that may shift by the day or even hour, with considerable crossover to the point that the lines are very blurred.

But that's what makes CDers such fascinating creatures -- they're all different, but still share some things in common. (Like spending too much on clothes, or cursing that run in their hose...) ;)

[Tina B.]

Tina seldom refers to her shelf in the third person, usually on in department stores when admiring a dress or blouse, Tina will tell the wife, Tina would like that. Not a matter of identity confusion of course, just a matter of security when out in public. Oh, and Tina likes this question.
Tina B.

[Sarah Doepner]

I don't dress en femme 24/7, in truth most of my life is not conducted with crossdressing up front. Because of that some of the experiences I share here did not occur while I was out challenging gender identity boundaries. I guess it would make the same point to say "I went to the auto parts store en femme" as it would to say "Sarah went to the auto parts store." As long as I remember to add that little detail about the mode of dress, it gets the story across. I believe in my case it's more a story telling device than an indication of how well I've accepted my crossdressing. That is a different story all together.

[Marissa]

I have seen a few threads that have discussed this topic and normally (as expected) it would be from someone who has come to full terms of who they are or where they are in their life..some have began transition, some dress 24/7, some dress as much as possible..others, don't see it as dressing but normal wear.

But I have to give a lot of credit to Starla for putting it in great terms... especially on the fact that we are all different..and that includes different stages in being a cd..

Stages? For some it can be just that..a 'stage' and we are merely actresses :) that once a week or once a month, we dressup to be that other person..and then put her away until the next time. Yes it is difficult to not let part of the 'actress' evolve into our everyday life or as someone stated, a name we use to differeniate on who we are referring to.

Is that split personality? Maybe.. or just some dang good acting :)

I'm not ready for "Marissa" to take over my body and mind..and not sure if I will ever be. But I do thank her for what she brings to my everyday life as ****, makes him (uhhh me..lol) a better person..

Offended by someone not understanding the 'third person' talk??? no.. life has alot of things we don't understand..this is just another page from it.

[juno]

I've never talked about myself in 3rd person, even when out shopping with my wife. Of course, she doesn't like it when I talk openly, so maybe I would be better off to do as Tina B, and used 3rd person to avoid making my wife uncomfortable.

For most people, 3rd person is probably based in denial. A lot of people who now accept themselves probably started back when they were young and confused, and still use it out of habit.

[Lorileah]

It is just easier when typing to say "Lori" when you are talking about the two distinct parts of my personality. In this forum, revealing your male name is not often done so we say "he" or "him" or "My male self" and then when we get to our female side we can and often do use our name. There may be a few here who are totally female (especially on the TS side) who can easily say "Me" or "I" and the inference is known. For most of us, we are still split in daily life and on these boards so going third person is just easier and more succinct.

Addendum: When out in public dressed and with people I say "I" and "me" (a lot since I am a princess and totally self absorbed) but when I am in male mode with people who know about my feminine side and I see a blouse or skirt I will say "Lori" would like that. Ok maybe denial but it just makes more sense and gets less looks than is I say while dressed in my male attire "Ge I really like that teddy, I would look so hot in that with my pumps"

[melissacd]

Many years back when I was totally in the closet, I referred to my femme desires as a form of sickness. Later as an interesting facet of my personality for which I felt total guilt and anger about. Even later I embraced it and then once I brought it all the way out of the closet I realized it was me all along.

During the earlier periods of my life I was an incomplete person, I was not myself at all. After many years of introspection, reflection, learning, reading, growing and now living the life I have pulled out and unfolded the rest of my personality and I am whole again. So rather than referring to my femme side in the third person, I was in actual fact one third of a person, a totally different thing. Now I am just me with all my masculine and feminine desires, dreams, foibles and tendencies.

[cindym5_04]

For me, it depends who I'm talking to and about what. If they're someone that doesn't know about my crossdressing and I'm telling them about something that happened when I was dressed, I'll relay it in the story as something like "so my friend Cindy this weekend"... or something like that.

[Rhonda Jean]

It's just a shorthand description of our fem presentation. If you're so much the same person, why even adopt a feminine name or a feminized version of your own name (like Davida or Raychel)?

For me, I'll readily admit that I'm not the same enfemme or drab. I look different, speak different, walk differently, etc.. I'm the same person, but undeniably a feminized version.

Some crossdressers are not different. They maintain the swagger, perhaps even intentionally lower their voice, perhaps even exaggerate their male mannerisms and speech patterns. Some proudly show their hairy legs and chest. The list is long. This is the segement of crossdressers that I don't get. Check out "People of Walmart". I'd bet that when the general public thinks "crossdresser", this is what pops into their mind.

My life (lives?) are pretty tightly compartmentalized. I don't think this make me crazy. Quite the opposite. I'm smart enough to know that I can't show up for work in a miniskirt and stillettos. At the places where Rhonda goes (There, I did it) that'd be just fine.

[Andrea's Lynne]

Karren doesn't like to refer to herself on the third person... Zarren concurs...

Indeed! LOL

[Rianna Humble]

I see people on the forum referring their dressed selves in the third person.
I don't want to sound like I am putting anyone down, I just don't understand.
Do some of you see yourself as totally different entities depending on what you are wearing?

I used to refer to my male self in the third person, partly because when I joined these forums I could not risk having my natal identity made public and partly to underline that I considered that Iwas only pretending to be a man.

Now I use "Robert" as a shorthand for what happened during those 50-odd years where I was pretending I could be cisgendered.

I don't believe that I am two people, but it is only since the start of my transition that I am whole.

[Diane Smith]

Internally, I really don't think of myself as having separate personas. However, as a literary device when writing about the different adventures I've had, it is convenient and seems natural to say "he did this" or "she went there" to help distinguish what mode of dress and behavior I was in at the time. I don't think it reflects anything deeper but is a conscious choice while telling a story to make the conversation clearer. Realizing that some people are a little confused by this, though, I will make an effort to avoid it where practical in the future.

- Diane

[ninapuella]

I dont see myself as two different persons when i am dressed. It is just two sides of the same coin. And my female-name is just to match when i am dressed, dont really take any bigger notice on it. But it would feel very odd to have a male-name in girl-mode.
But I must say that when i am dressed i get feelings that i usually dont have. For exampel i feel more relaxed and calm. So the girl-mode is definetaly adding something to my person that i wouldnt get in male-mode.

[DAVIDA]

Wow!
I didn't really think that this would get the responses it has!
Thanks for the expanations!
I can understand the need to refer to the dressed version to a degree.
Jean will say the same things as some of you have mentioned while shopping, as in "Davida would look good in this".
But,that isn't the same as me saying to her while I am dressed,"Davida likes that."
I too didn't have a fem name until I joined this forum. I was just following suit.
Again, Davida thanks you.:heehee:

[Stephanie Anne]

I prefer fourth person perspective.

It's like first and third rolled into a delicious burrito of confusion.

I hear that Stephanie like to say things that make no sense.

[sandra-leigh]

I do not use third person very often, but sometimes it is easier.

For example,

"______'s FB page has to avoid X, but Sanda's FB page can talk about X"

flows easier than

"My FB page under my legal name, whose content is shared with family, friends, and relatives, and which both expresses and is constrained by my fully public personality, has to avoid topics about X, but my FB page under my female name, whose content is shared mostly with people who know me from the CD or LGBTQQ* community but which does not refer to my legal name, is not required to avoid discussing X."

(The range of things I cannot say publicly under my male name is staggeringly large :sad: )

[Gennifer]

I don't see myself as two separate people, but as someone who can flow along a spectrum that is purely feminine at one end and purely male at the other. Most of the time, in my daily life, at work, etc., I exist somewhere on the male end of the spectrum, but not all that far from the middle. That said, I have at sometimes, and my wife has, too, referred to me when I present as a woman, as Gennifer. But I know that a single name does not capture who I am. I am guess I am both.

[Starla]

I prefer fourth person perspective.

It's like first and third rolled into a delicious burrito of confusion.



Mmmmm.....perspective burrito....

[carhill2mn]

I use the "third person" (proper name) as a means of communicating if I was en femme or not at the time/event to which I am referring. I do see myself as having a masculine personna and a feminine personna and try to act appropriately in which ever one I am presenting myself.

[ChristineM]

I don't see myself as two totally separate persons but, as ninapuella said, two sides of the same coin. I'm me, he's him, and we're us. I do act and feel differently in each mode. And I don't mix modes. If I'm in male mode I wouldn't be wearing anything of Christine's, er, anything of a female nature. And vice versa. Wait, do boy shorts count against me?

Although I don't (OK, rarely) do the third person thing. If I see something I, er, she, ah, we like, I'll just think "oh, I want!", no matter what mode I'm in.

[Starla]

I'm me, he's him, and we're us.

"I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all together." -- John Lennon ("I am the Walrus") :D

[Mahoro]

I am one of those who is entirely the same person regardless of what I'm wearing on the outside. My core mannerisms, speech, and attitude are certainly much more feminine than most guys, but those things don't change with the attire. Clothes are just a cosmetic way to express my bi-gender nature, whether that be a dress and wig, or a suit and tie. That being said, I did long ago find my feminine name (Mia Tao), but mostly because I was never was really thrilled with the one my parents assigned to me at birth, and it makes me happy because I find it pretty and fitting to my innermost identity. This practice of naming yourself when you reach 'adulthood' is common in many other cultures, not just with CD/TGs.

As far as talking about myself in the third person, that only happens when I slip into Domme-mode, and then Mistress Tao will tell you exactly what she expects to have happen next, LOL! :dom:

[Starla]

This practice of naming yourself when you reach 'adulthood' is common in many other cultures, not just with CD/TGs.

I'll remember that, should I ever reach adulthood. (It's been 53 years, and still I don't think I'm quite there yet...) :rolleyes:

[DebsUK]

It only becomes a problem if, after referring to yourself in the third person, the third person then commands you to rob banks, or, worse still, buy Justin Bieber CDs :eek:

As a rule I'm me whatever I'm wearing, first person singular. I occasionally refer to myself as Debs in order to make a point maybe, or if I'm trying to pass the blame for the suspicious itemised bill from the local record shop :doh:

[Rianna Humble]

"I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all together." -- John Lennon ("I am the Walrus") :D

Rats! Beat me to it!

Still - as they say - great fools seldom think alike but minds differ (or something like that)

[gwenbeth]

I would have go along with the "two sides of the coin" camp. There is the Gwen side, and the guy mode side. Each side has a different personality, but they are both me. We are working on being nice to each other (-:

[AKAMichelle]

It is easier to explain which side of themselves they are talking about.

[eluuzion]

Well here is another fine example of cognitive windsurfing in waters best left undisturbed. Not pointing or implying or judging or anything but simply thinking out loud here…

Aside from the multiple personality, schizophrenic and ventriloquist explanations…here is another option to consider. Here is a hypothetical example….

“Boris” marries an unsuspecting wife named “Nastasha“. He maintains a secret life as a CD named “Doris“. Doris is different than Boris. Doris happens to have all of the desirable feminine attributes that Boris felt he could not bring into the marriage or reveal to his wife Nastasha. It is like a little kid that creates an invisible friend…who gets to do everything the little kid is not allowed to do.

Boris’s guilt feelings grow as the secret “life” becomes more complex and difficult to conceal. One option is to be honest and disclose everything to his wife. The other option is to try and “distance” himself from the responsibility of his actions.

Sometimes it begins with reports of feminine feelings or thoughts popping up (like they are not your own). The “cloning” and separation expands into third party references to self as if two separate identities are appearing ( Boris is reducing his connection with everything, as “Doris” continues to “act on her own“). She ultimately becomes “Doris” which completes the disassociation of responsibility for Boris for any future behavior and actions carried out by “Doris”. It is almost like watching one of those TV shows, where somebody slowly turns into a “Werewolf“. Sounds a bit extreme, but not to me in conceptual comparison.

I frequently find myself observing this (unconscious?) behavior in a strange and distorted manner. I catch myself following each scenario almost like a TV game show, waiting for the participants to arrive at that same trailhead. Then seeing if I was correct in predicting which one of the three paths they will choose to take.

1) The genuine struggle with overwhelming guilt and the exhaustion of secrecy finally produces the courage for them to reach out to their SO and take a shot at acceptance.

2) Continue to conceal their CD activity… and live with the frustration and guilt of being stuck in the “middle”…unable to tell the wife ~ yet too faithful to face the guilt that would follow taking any “next steps” forward in their CD journey. (hoping for miracles)

3) Continue as usual, feeling happy, content with the status quo and feeling positive about the future.

3) Or continue with the self-deception of believing “Doris has control”…Anything is OK to do in “Doris mode”… there are “two persons“, so Boris is not responsible for Doris behavior…Boris had no other options…Doris behavior does not affect Boris behavior…and anything else that sounds credible enough to justify jumping aboard that “Street Car named Desire", lol.

4) Escalating the CD activities, but pretending it is acceptable, since Boris is struggling, but making an honorable attempt by seeking counseling, etc.

Just a thought…what do you think?

:love:

[Rhonda Jean]

Well here is another fine example of cognitive windsurfing in waters best left undisturbed. Not pointing or implying or judging or anything but simply thinking out loud here…

Aside from the multiple personality, schizophrenic and ventriloquist explanations…here is another option to consider. Here is a hypothetical example….

“Boris” marries an unsuspecting wife named “Nastasha“. He maintains a secret life as a CD named “Doris“. Doris is different than Boris. Doris happens to have all of the desirable feminine attributes that Boris felt he could not bring into the marriage or reveal to his wife Nastasha. It is like a little kid that creates an invisible friend…who gets to do everything the little kid is not allowed to do.

Boris’s guilt feelings grow as the secret “life” becomes more complex and difficult to conceal. One option is to be honest and disclose everything to his wife. The other option is to try and “distance” himself from the responsibility of his actions.

Sometimes it begins with reports of feminine feelings or thoughts popping up (like they are not your own). The “cloning” and separation expands into third party references to self as if two separate identities are appearing ( Boris is reducing his connection with everything, as “Doris” continues to “act on her own“). She ultimately becomes “Doris” which completes the disassociation of responsibility for Boris for any future behavior and actions carried out by “Doris”. It is almost like watching one of those TV shows, where somebody slowly turns into a “Werewolf“. Sounds a bit extreme, but not to me in conceptual comparison.

I frequently find myself observing this (unconscious?) behavior in a strange and distorted manner. I catch myself following each scenario almost like a TV game show, waiting for the participants to arrive at that same trailhead. Then seeing if I was correct in predicting which one of the three paths they will choose to take.

1) The genuine struggle with overwhelming guilt and the exhaustion of secrecy finally produces the courage for them to reach out to their SO and take a shot at acceptance.

2) Continue to conceal their CD activity… and live with the frustration and guilt of being stuck in the “middle”…unable to tell the wife ~ yet too faithful to face the guilt that would follow taking any “next steps” forward in their CD journey. (hoping for miracles)

3) Continue as usual, feeling happy, content with the status quo and feeling positive about the future.

3) Or continue with the self-deception of believing “Doris has control”…Anything is OK to do in “Doris mode”… there are “two persons“, so Boris is not responsible for Doris behavior…Boris had no other options…Doris behavior does not affect Boris behavior…and anything else that sounds credible enough to justify jumping aboard that “Street Car named Desire", lol.

4) Escalating the CD activities, but pretending it is acceptable, since Boris is struggling, but making an honorable attempt by seeking counseling, etc.

Just a thought…what do you think?

:love:

By far the best explanation I've ever seen. You are totally in my head.

[melissacd]

Oye-yoy-yoy ... Eluuzion, we don't need a third person, it is already complicated enough with two...Boris and Doris ;)

[PretzelGirl]

Oye-yoy-yoy ... Eluuzion, we don't need a third person, it is already complicated enough with two...Boris and Doris ;)

But what if Nastasha has an invisible friend named Nate?

Nice insight Eluuzion!

[Anneliese]

I don't believe I've ever referred to myself in the third person, but I am a different person when dressed. The male me is a very conscientious animal rights vegan, while the female me LOVES leather and silk. I think (but don't know) it has something to do with being attracted to the forbidden when dressed.