The World Is Pretty Ignorant...

[Sarah Glen]

Whenever I'm hanging out with my "Dude Friends" and the topic of CDing comes up, (a noticeable CD in public, Jerry Springer, other T.V shows, etc.) their, and most guys immediate reaction is to say, "What a fag". Sure, on the outside, I chuckle and agree, but on the inside, I feel like I stabbed everything I believe in right in the back.

The world should know that most men who CD are heterosexual men who have no desire to be female. Sure, those folks exist, folks that CD and are gay and/or do want to be female, and I support them, but they don't make up the majority.

In the society we live in, nobody would EVER make an issue over a woman to be in public wearing jeans and a mens t-shirt....EVER! but if a man wants to wear a dress, he would never be perceived as "normal", most would assume he was gay, and he has deal with the stares, and he knows that everyone is judging him right in his face.

Logically, this makes absolutely no sense.

Sure, we're a lot closer than we were 50 years ago, but will we EVER live in society where males aren't "pushed" to be so masculine?

[Steph.TS]

I have a friend that we talk about all sorts of things regardless of how controversial the topic may be, and one day the topic of transexuality came up and he made the comment that he wouldn't want to be about anyone that wanted to be a woman because he won't know what going through that persons head.

thing is this guy seems pretty cool, doesn't try to be overly macho or anything, but it hurt I had to play along like nothing bothered me.

[JohnH]

We have got to stop playing along with ignorant individuals. We need to point out tactfully the inconsistency of society approving women wearing pants and disapproving of men wearing skirts and dresses. Jen, if your friend will not listen to you then I wonder what kind of a friend he really is.

My wife and I used to watch Jerry Springer but have gotten more than our fill of his taking advantage of maladjusted people for his profit. HIs "efforts" to "help" these people is like fighting a fire by pouring gasoline on it as I have written before.

[Miranda09]

Why play along? When someone makes a comment you don't agree with, why not express your opinion. It doesn't have to mean you're a CDer (whether true or not). It just means you have a different perspective and it's just as valid as anyone else's. Don't be afraid to voice your opinion for fear of being labeled......that's what perpetuates preconceived notions!!!

[Kelly DeWinter]

Why play along? When someone makes a comment you don't agree with, why not express your opinion. It doesn't have to mean you're a CDer (whether true or not). It just means you have a different perspective and it's just as valid as anyone else's. Don't be afraid to voice your opinion for fear of being labeled......that's what perpetuates preconceived notions!!!

Miranda, Spot on girl ! It's a great way to weed out stupid people. Although I have found that people who speak up first like with "What a fag", "he/she 's a drunk comments, are the same people you find out years later are gay, achoholics etc.

[Sarah Glen]

Ya know what...a bit off subject..but your all awesome! the whole time I was reading your responses, I was nodding my head, with a grin on my face, thinking to myself "I think the world is going to be okay, why should I LET ignorance bug me." I have a Fiancée who is extremely supportive of my CDing...and I love my life. thanks guys!

[sissystephanie]

Both Miranda and Kelly are right on with their remarks. I have been doing that kind of speaking out for many years. My family knows that I am a CD, and is O.K. with it. My friends don't know about my CD tendencies, and probably never will! But they do know that I am intelligent, and that I study things very much. So they tend to listen to me! Not that they always pay that much attention to what I say, but at least they do listen!! I am sure that over the years, I have changed the minds oif a few people concerning CD's.

[Nicole Erin]

most guys immediate reaction is to say, "What a fag". Sure, on the outside, I chuckle and agree, but on the inside, I feel like I stabbed everything I believe in right in the back.

This is part of the reason a lot of TS don't care for CD's. TS are out there living it, pass or not. CD's though, dress up, escape to some other town, and hope no one finds out. Then when with their buddies they will gladly laugh at another TG person. Not all CD are like that but a few are, we see it here often.

I would love nothing more than to "out" a closet CD who laughed at me when he was with his buddies.

[linda allen]

Why play along? When someone makes a comment you don't agree with, why not express your opinion. It doesn't have to mean you're a CDer (whether true or not). It just means you have a different perspective and it's just as valid as anyone else's. Don't be afraid to voice your opinion for fear of being labeled......that's what perpetuates preconceived notions!!!

That works with some people but not with others. Same with issues like gender equality and racial equality. Some people will go to their grave with old time ideas. You can't change their minds.

You can't win them all, you have to pick your battles.

[Loni]

it is true there are a lot of "mouth breathers" out there. but i have seen were most are tolerant..or just do not care.
and i do not see most from the "good side of the tracks". but just most people only want to get to the next paycheck.
and yes we need to call down those who put down what they know nothing about. only way to learn is to get into a good talk about things.
no i do not just agree with others to get along. i just walk away shacking my head, or try to bring in a better light.
it would surprise you to know some out there really do not believe in the "joke" they just laugh to get along. you know. be one of the guys.

but times are a changing....sadly some minds never will.

.

[Roberta Marie]

Sarah,

I understand all to well what you are saying. I've been there and done that. I know the fear of outing yourself, and the need to play along. However, this playing along is what makes no logical sense. We are not only stabbing what we believe in in the the back, we are stabbing ourselves in the back. With this behavior, we as a community are committing suicide. This is what we need to feel guilty about, not wearing women's clothes.

You ask, ". . .but will we EVER live in society where males aren't "pushed" to be so masculine?"

Quite simple, as long as we continue to play along, until we educate people about the transgender community (which we can do without outing ourselves), we will never see that day when we are free to dress as we choose.

I'm not trying to point any fingers, you will note that throughout this post I use "we" instead of "you". I have been just as guilty of this behavior in the past. But this is a behavior that we need to change. We don't have to out ourselves as being transgender in order to state our belief that all people are created equal. If a person is not willing to accept us because we believe that that guy wearing a skirt ahead of us in the grocery store checkout line is as much of a person as the rest of us, and deserves to be treated with the same dignity and respect as the rest of us, then how in the world should we expect them to accept us when we are the guy in a skirt.

Most of these comments are made out of ignorance, and the only way that we can overcome ignorance is with knowledge and truth. If we remain silent, we are only perpetuating the ignorance. The only way that we can get rid of the ignorance is to educate the ignorant. They may not believe us, and they might not change their behavior, but we may have planted a seed, and someday they may see the light because of a comment we made, defending someone else's dignity.

How many of us here took the time to write our Congressperson or Senator the last time that ENDA was up for a vote, or when "Don't Ask Don't Tell" was being debated? Or how many went to the APAs web site to express your views when the discussion about how crossdressers are classified (Transvestic Fetish) in the upcoming DSM revision was open for public comment. These are things that we can do WITHOUT OUTING OURSELVES!!

We can, when conversations come up, without outing ourselves, simply say, "I read that most crossdressers are heterosexual." or "I read that crossdressing is much more prevalent than you might think." I know, because I've done it. I DIDN'T OUT MYSELF, AND IT FEELS GOOD.

Please, let's stop this communal suicide. Let's start standing up for each other.

OK. I'm stepping down off of the soap box, now. Sorry for ranting and screaming . . . . No I'm not. We need to change this.

Grace,
Bobbi

[Kelly DeWinter]

This is part of the reason a lot of TS don't care for CD's. TS are out there living it, pass or not. CD's though, dress up, escape to some other town, and hope no one finds out. Then when with their buddies they will gladly laugh at another TG person. Not all CD are like that but a few are, we see it here often.

I would love nothing more than to "out" a closet CD who laughed at me when he was with his buddies.

Nicole,

This type of statement is equal in respects to what the OP is saying, It's an inflamatory and rude remark, When I first read it I thought "wow, I never knew she thought that way" To be honest, I thought you might be someone whom a closet CD could get some good advice from, but now I'm not so sure. Do you realise that for most transexuals, stating out as a closet CD, was the beginning ? I'm not making it up, there are hundeds of gals on this site alone who when you read through their posts stared out as CD. Equal rights for women started with women banding togeather and educating other women first. Equal rights and the end of slavery started with African Americans banding togeather speaking out and other Americans joining in. Trangendered Americans will be accepted becuse we are speaking out now, both Crossdressers and Transsexuals. Nicole you have to put aside past slanders or wrongs and speak with unity. Do you see how your remarks are no different then what the OP is talking about ?

Kelly

Yes there are some people who are just plain mean, YOU do not have to be a part of it.

[Jilmac]

Sarah, I can fully understand your concern with ignorant people, having encountered many throughout my lifetime. My first comment is on the shock media, programs such as Jerry Springer, Maury Povich and their ilk portraying crossdressers as buffoons, drag queens, or radical nut cases. Many mainstream shows, especially cop shows refer to them as "trannys" and portray them as gay or very effeminate. So the ignorance you're referring to when you mention your "dudes" comes mostly from a lack of truism about our lifestyle.

I believe the public perception will never change until the media finds something new to sensationalize. There will always be the drag queens and flambouyant "trannys" but they are a minority compared to the many "straight" mainstream crossdressers. Once we are portrayed as everyday people, I believe the ingonance will be non existant.

[docrobbysherry]

The idea that being a CD/TS must mean you're gay, is pretty common! I certainly don't expect the general public to understand what has taken ME over 12 years of heavy involvement to find out!:brolleyes:

When I first began dressing, I THOT I MUST BE GAY!:eek:
Then, when I was pretty sure I wasn't, I thot other CDs WERE!:doh:
It took discovering THIS SITE for me to learn the TRUTH about CD/TG/TSs!:thumbsup:

Oddly enuff, I think my family and friends would accept my being GAY BETTER than my being a CD!:sad:

[rexy]

Here is a thought that i have about this. By saying that men that wear women's clothing have to Gay it is because it is a self defense mind set , because they [people ) can not understand why so they have to justfiy by saying this in there mind . Why would a real man wear women's clothes? I SAY IT TAKES A REAL MAN TO WEAR A DRESS !!!!:):):)

[ninapuella]

The only accepted picture of transvestism is when it is as comedy and making fun of it. Take Eddie Izzard as a very good example. The thing he is doing is to use his transvestism as parody, and there are lots of other examples in the media, tv-shows and movies. Thats why its very difficult for ordinary crossdressers to become acceptable when everyone see it either as a joke or as a sexual perversion. Its kinda sad, because i think the world are missing something.

[suchacutie]

It's only happened to me once. There was a conversation going on around me (I did know both people, both were "macho" guys) and somehow their conversation drifted to someone's crossdressing. The usual comments ensued of putting down this person, and all crossdressers as "gay" and all the negative words often heard. One of the two left and the remaining person attempted to engage me in this conversation. I just looked at him and said, "my understanding is that you are rather incorrect in your assumptions". He just looked at me and asked what I meant. I went on to tell him that my understanding was that most men who are transgendered are heterosexual, and that transgenderism and sexual choice often have nothing to do with each other. I then mentioned that a conversation in a bar was one thing, but that in a professional situation he might want to be a bit better informed.

By handling it as a professional issue I tried to remove any personal issues from the discussion (he might have been a crossdresser for all I knew) and centered on the need to be informed. It seemed to have an effect if I read his facial expressions correctly.

tina

[Lorileah]

:sb: Ahem, the way to cure ignorance is education. The way to education is to come out and teach what you know is true. The way this site goes that majority you mention (the heterosexual, married, crossdresser) won't come out and be counted. So who can blame society for thinking a) CD's are gay, after all don't they want guys and since they are guys that would be "gay" right? Where do you find Drag shows? Gay bars. and that b) CD's want to be women (and I would not just brush that aside as not being a significant number especially here) when TS's get more press than hetero-married CD's...who stay hidden and don't make any waves.

First step is "we" as a group have to dispel any idea that we are in anyway abnormal...both to ourselves and to the world (start with not going to see any media that portrays TG's as crazy, insane, clown like figures who are socio-pathic like Springer and almost every movie ever made about TG's). If we don't believe that what we do is not wrong then how can you teach everyone else it isn't? Start with the stereotypic rumors...like we are all gay and we "want" men. Listen to children and watch to see that they don't really care how a person dresses until we TELL them it isn't right. Own what you are. Every equal rights fight has started with the group teaching that they were NOT what the majority thought they were. And they had to say it loud and proud (sorry for stealing that). :sb:

and just as a heads up, don't be using the "women can wear what they want..whah whah" argument too much, they did as I said above and made it "ok" by taking charge of who they are. It wasn't just given to them

[JohnH]

and just as a heads up, don't be using the "women can wear what they want..whah whah" argument too much, they did as I said above and made it "ok" by taking charge of who they are. It wasn't just given to them

Women had to go through hard times to win the right to wear pants. Before the 1940's (WW2 and Rosie the Riveter) women who wore pants were subject to arrest and assumed to be crazy to want to wear pants. Society also was concerned about how pants-wearing women would corrupt children.

Johanna

[Suzette Muguet de Mai]

It is so sad that we have to feel so much on the outer when it comes to MTF or FTM issues. It is hard for some of us to yell out "hey I am a CD/TV/TG so what". Assumptions are very dangerous in the mouths of some who have not got the ability to think outside of their tunnelled vision. Heck they may see something that may cause them not to actually think. Ignorance is something that is very tunnelled, unfortunately for those who use it regularly it is their only way to survive an argument. If they are unable to argue the point, they tackle some physical or mental part of their opponent and belittle them. Education is a great thing to have but if some cannot be educated in respect then how the hell will we ever be able to educate them to think and COMPREHEND the topic in discussion. Is it not really ridiculous that some of us have an issue about fashion, after all its just some material that we wish to wear. Like a navy blue singlet, stubbies and thongs are an issue with me I guess some have an issue about a dress I may wear. I wonder if they have the same issues about the islanders, Japanese, Scots who wear a material that is like a dress but is not a dress? Do some people call them gay? I certainly hope not.

[Alice Torn]

I now live in small town Illinois, and, it never ceases to amaze me, that women over 40, cut off their glorious hair, and have manlike haircuts the rest of their lives! Nothing is said about that! They can really look like men, until you get close by. Nothing is said. If a man is dressed up like a woman , LOOKOUT! Such a stinking unfair DOUBLE STANDARD! Absolutely nothing considered strange about the one, but, jeers, and disdain for the other.

[Cassandra Lynn]

At the very least, if ones does not have it in themselves to speak up or take a stand, they should have the courage and common sense to not play along. Being silent on the issue isn't going to out you, and if someone does question your stance, then simply reply with the ol' "who am i to judge".

Cassie

[TGMarla]

Women who cut their hair shorter after assuming a certain age are NOT trying to emulate men when doing so. And while long hair is rare on men, it is not indicative of their sexuality except in the eyes of the extremely ignorant. As for wearing pants....well, it's a lame and tired argument. Whereas the wearing of pants is quite utiliarian and practical, the same cannot be said for the wearing of dresses. Furthermore, we as CDs most often (not always) try our hardest to look and act as women do when crossdressing. The two simply do not equate. Women were never out to get their "homme" on when donning a pair of pants. But we often refer to our dressing activities as "going en femme".

As for conversing with the ignorant, it is true that many men will immediately assume a crossdresser is gay, limp wristed, effeminate, etc. When we dress, many of us want to be effeminate. But gay? That's a whole 'nuther ball game, and a bit of corrective education is in order. A CD might be gay, but then again, is probably not. So feel free to speak up and voice your opinion based on the facts.

[Roberta Marie]

Women who cut their hair shorter after assuming a certain age are NOT trying to emulate men when doing so. And while long hair is rare on men, it is not indicative of their sexuality except in the eyes of the extremely ignorant. As for wearing pants....well, it's a lame and tired argument. Whereas the wearing of pants is quite utiliarian and practical, the same cannot be said for the wearing of dresses. Furthermore, we as CDs most often (not always) try our hardest to look and act as women do when crossdressing. The two simply do not equate. Women were never out to get their "homme" on when donning a pair of pants. But we often refer to our dressing activities as "going en femme".



Maria,

I was trying to figure out a way to say this, and you did it for me. Well said. Thanks

Grace,
Bobbi

[Alice Torn]

Marla, I know that i try to tell other guys, that we have not walk in their shoes, when talking of men in womens clthes. I guess we have to agree to disagree, about masses of women cutting off their "glory"- their lovely hair, which makes them look most feminine. The Bible even calls a woman's long hair, "her glory", in 1 Corinthians 11"14! I saw anarticle on Yahoo a while back, about older women growing their hair out, again, and refusing to sheer it off, and was surprised at how many men loved this, and a number of women loved their lon hair in older ages. Of course, some women look very feminine, in certain shorter styles.

[AKAMichelle]

It probably won't happen in my lifetime, but we can always hope.

[Kelly DeWinter]

:sb: Ahem, the way to cure ignorance is education. The way to education is to come out and teach what you know is true. The way this site goes that majority you mention (the heterosexual, married, crossdresser) won't come out and be counted. So who can blame society for thinking a) CD's are gay, after all don't they want guys and since they are guys that would be "gay" right? Where do you find Drag shows? Gay bars. and that b) CD's want to be women (and I would not just brush that aside as not being a significant number especially here) when TS's get more press than hetero-married CD's...who stay hidden and don't make any waves.

First step is "we" as a group have to dispel any idea that we are in anyway abnormal...both to ourselves and to the world (start with not going to see any media that portrays TG's as crazy, insane, clown like figures who are socio-pathic like Springer and almost every movie ever made about TG's). If we don't believe that what we do is not wrong then how can you teach everyone else it isn't? Start with the stereotypic rumors...like we are all gay and we "want" men. Listen to children and watch to see that they don't really care how a person dresses until we TELL them it isn't right. Own what you are. Every equal rights fight has started with the group teaching that they were NOT what the majority thought they were. And they had to say it loud and proud (sorry for stealing that). :sb:

and just as a heads up, don't be using the "women can wear what they want..whah whah" argument too much, they did as I said above and made it "ok" by taking charge of who they are. It wasn't just given to them


Lori, I will hold your soapbox anytime you want to speak !

[fluffy]

You'd better make such degrading statements about the crossdressers too or your pals might become suspicious. Oh, wait, perhaps that's why THEY are doing it.
You never know how many guys are crossdressing - maybe a lot more than we think.

[Kate Simmons]

As part of society, when we complain about how it is, we are complaining about ourselves. Don't like the paradigm? The "buck" starts and stops here my friend.:)

[Angiemead12]

I feel you, my friends know about my CDing but they dont talk about it and it seems like I wasnt taken seriously?!

They also still stereo type gay people and other transexuals which does hurt deep inside.

We cant do anything about their perception of our kind.

[tamarav]

It appears that many of us have "friends" that really aren't friends. Why hang out with people that belittle your interests. It seems like you should actually choose your friends rather than attempt to stay with people that are close by.

"Outing" anyone for any reason shows just how out of touch with reality you are, as if your interpretation of reality is the only one.

[Jinx]

Ok. I know I am new here and just a few days I found out I wasn't alone. I knew others were out there, but I would not allow myself to see it. I can't, nor will I, try to speak for those with their own voices- I am speaking for myself alone.

I am glad someone mentioned "outting" others. It made me think about myself and how I would/wouldnt fit in here (or any other friendly place). It does worry me that I might make a massive mistake and someone I thought was the same as me might out me because of my lack of knowledge (again, not the person who mentioned it and not online- anywhere and anyone). I am very glad you said it (and thank you) it makes me realize that I wish I would have been "outted" years ago. The only reason the world does not accept me is because I do not accept myself. If I had the courage to be known, then it would be me. Instead I act like someone else and the world looks at me as a fake, but I am mad at the world for not accepting me. Kinda funny when you think of it like that. If I would have been outted then the lie I was trying to promote would be the one getting laughed at.

As for someone "outting" a community member, it shows us where we need to start. All of us, including me, need to be more understanding and compassionate with ourselves before we can change the world.

[MiamiMarie]

Ignorance is just the worst. I am struggling with this issue myself with my in-laws who unwittingly make statements like this around their own closeted son.

I guess we just need to educate whenever possible.

[Ashliegh]

I work in heavy construction. We are doing training courses for 3 days. I am dressed in totally male clothes, jeans, sweater, black wool coat. However some of the guys have decided to tease me about the dark purple scarf I have with my coat. Nothing femme about it yet they still joke that I "stole my girlfriend's scarf" or I'm a "closet fag". Ignorance in some people is beyond comprehension.

[Jamie001]

Lorilieh is correct in that women obtained the freedom to wear what they want to wear by just doing it and standing up for themselves rather than being ashamed and hiding in the closet. We crossdressers will not make progress because the majority of us are ashamed and feat the repurcussions of coming out so they stay deeply closet cowering in the closet wishing that the world would change and that other crossdressers would take the risks for them. I believe that the best way to make progresss is for guys to start wearing fem items in male mode just as women wear masculine items in their normal wardrobe. For example, you could start wearing earrings and nail polish in male mode. This is the only way to gain fashion freedom and it is the way the women did it. You just cannot step out completely dressed as a girl mimicking feminine mannerisms and expect the world to accept. If women had dressed completely as men with fake moustaches and all, they would have never been accepted. The key to total fashion freedom is to start pushing the envelope in male mode and stop cowering in the closet and complaining.

[Gaby2]

After reading your statement about ignorance I felt sad Sarah. The interchange that followed was interesting. And then Nicole hit me hard.


This is part of the reason a lot of TS don't care for CD's. TS are out there living it, pass or not. CD's though, dress up, escape to some other town, and hope no one finds out. Then when with their buddies they will gladly laugh at another TG person. Not all CD are like that but a few are, we see it here often.

I would love nothing more than to "out" a closet CD who laughed at me when he was with his buddies.

Hey Nicole! I haven't even dared to poke my powdered nose out in the open, though I have thought recently of doing exactly that which you've condemned. I find cders extremely strong-willed who not only undertake but also describe such tentative trips.

Kelly was a little harsh on you, though I was relieved and grateful that she reacted.
But I felt even sadder when I read Sarah's original post again.

Gaby

[Jamie001]

I work in heavy construction. We are doing training courses for 3 days. I am dressed in totally male clothes, jeans, sweater, black wool coat. However some of the guys have decided to tease me about the dark purple scarf I have with my coat. Nothing femme about it yet they still joke that I "stole my girlfriend's scarf" or I'm a "closet fag". Ignorance in some people is beyond comprehension.

You should tell these people that you are a "closet crossdresser" and let them deal with it. That is the only way to make progress. If you back down from their taunts, you will not make any progress and you will just feel bad about yourself. We need to be proud of who and what we are. That is the only way to make progress and to feel good about ourselves. There is really no middle ground.

[JohnH]

I work in heavy construction. We are doing training courses for 3 days. I am dressed in totally male clothes, jeans, sweater, black wool coat. However some of the guys have decided to tease me about the dark purple scarf I have with my coat. Nothing femme about it yet they still joke that I "stole my girlfriend's scarf" or I'm a "closet fag". Ignorance in some people is beyond comprehension.

Try this on for size: At one time it was considered by barge and river boat workers sissy for someone to comb his beard.

Ashliegh, those guys have a low opinion about themselves and they are trying to cut you down so they can feel better about themselves.

Jamie, I agree that one should be himself/herself. When I wear a dress with heels and makeup I do not attempt to imitate a woman in the mannerisms or speech other then to soften the speech. I don't raise the pitch of my voice nor change the way I walk. I frequently wear lipstick when I go to church when I am not wearing a tie and wearing masculine clothing. The lipstick is not some garish color but it blends in closely with my natural lip color.

[Gaby2]

...You just cannot step out completely dressed as a girl mimicking feminine mannerisms and expect the world to accept...

Why not, Jamie?

[jacky83]

My response to ignorant statements would be "I don't believe in bigotry" and then look for new friends.

[Jinx]

Brave women step out of that front door everyday and are just fine. RuPaul came out in the 90's (things were worse then) and the world laughed right along with her. Did people laugh at her? Why yes silly, I laughed and joked too, but the whole time I was crying inside wishing I had that life. What's the difference in my life and hers? Nothing. She has the courage to be herself, that's all. When you have the courage to be yourself no words can cut you that deep.

There have been several manly men actors play CD/GLBT roles. Too Wong Foo, Milk, Brokeback Mnt, just for a few. Did these actors catch hell for the roles they played? Not really. There's a few award winning roles, the masses LIKED the movie and the actor playing the role. Why is this? They just did it. They didn't ask if they should, they just did it and the world be damned if they don't like it.

I am going to spend the rest of my life trying to follow my own advice.

[JiveTurkeyOnRye]

Whenever I'm hanging out with my "Dude Friends" and the topic of CDing comes up, (a noticeable CD in public, Jerry Springer, other T.V shows, etc.) their, and most guys immediate reaction is to say, "What a fag". Sure, on the outside, I chuckle and agree, but on the inside, I feel like I stabbed everything I believe in right in the back.

The world should know that most men who CD are heterosexual men who have no desire to be female. Sure, those folks exist, folks that CD and are gay and/or do want to be female, and I support them, but they don't make up the majority.

I can't believe that this thread has gotten to two pages already and no one seems to have a issue with the fact that calling someone a "fag" and laughing about it is inappropriate regardless of if the person is actually gay or not? The issue with friends saying that when seeing someone crossdressed isn't "Don't they know all CDs are gay" but that it shouldn't have been said to begin with even if that particular person was gay? Continuing to allow homophobia to thrive around us helps no one.


This is part of the reason a lot of TS don't care for CD's. TS are out there living it, pass or not. CD's though, dress up, escape to some other town, and hope no one finds out. Then when with their buddies they will gladly laugh at another TG person. Not all CD are like that but a few are, we see it here often.

I would love nothing more than to "out" a closet CD who laughed at me when he was with his buddies.

:sarcasm: Yeah. I envy TS people. It's amazing how all TS people are instantly comfortable and at terms with themselves and out there openly living as they are. It's amazing how all TS people are like that, but crossdressers sometimes have to take baby steps. I would assume some TS people have to take at least some time to admit to themselves who they are and figure out what it is they want, but nope, just out there living it.



You can't win them all, you have to pick your battles.

But you can pick your friends.


The only accepted picture of transvestism is when it is as comedy and making fun of it. Take Eddie Izzard as a very good example. The thing he is doing is to use his transvestism as parody, and there are lots of other examples in the media, tv-shows and movies. Thats why its very difficult for ordinary crossdressers to become acceptable when everyone see it either as a joke or as a sexual perversion. Its kinda sad, because i think the world are missing something.

Eddie Izzard is a good example of someone who takes his transvestism and is open and honest about it. He doesn't do it as parody, yes he does jokes about it, but his jokes aren't "hey isn't it funny that I wear a dress," and instead about what it is like being a transvestite and dealing with that as part of his life. His whole routine about the differences between a "weirdo transvestite" and an "executive transvestite" is a perfect example of him doing exactly the opposite of what you're accusing him of here. He's saying, yes there are some weird people who crossdress, but those are "weirdo transvestites," as opposed to the large number of perfectly normal crossdressers, like himself, the "executive transvestite."

[Lorileah]

Nothing femme about it yet they still joke that I "stole my girlfriend's scarf" or I'm a "closet fag". Ignorance in some people is beyond comprehension.

that is not ignorance, that is just mean and uncalled for. It is an extention of the bullying that has now become central for young people (just because we are older doesn't mean it goes away...we just learn to ignore what we can). Usually if you don't pay attention to those people they get bored and go off on something else. But if you reply, they keep that in memory for later (no different than training a puppy, which honestly most of those guys are not even smart enough to be a puppy). When a person reaches adulthood they don't act like that...unfortunately many men never reach adulthood and then they wonder why wives leave or they cannot get a good date. They guys at the bar where they hang out find them terrible amusing

[Sarah Doepner]

Sometimes just a mere mention that the speaker is wrong, backed with a little documentation (even something like 'I saw it on TV') will shut them up. If you add your understanding that the behavior is different, but normal and you don't find it bad, it's a stronger message. And if they accuse you of something you aren't ready to share, you don't have to. It's just an opportunity to help them grow up and stop being afraid of things they don't understand.

Someone was joking with me and criticized my wearing of Hawaiian shirts saying I was Gay. I responded saying "I'm not Gay, I'm Transgendered." They stopped short, laughed nervously and went on to something else, not really sure what had just happened.

[Starla]

Someone was joking with me and criticized my wearing of Hawaiian shirts saying I was Gay. I responded saying "I'm not Gay, I'm Transgendered." They stopped short, laughed nervously and went on to something else, not really sure what had just happened.

If they are so ignorant as to equate the wearing of Hawaiian print shirts with being gay (was Magnum gay? Hawkeye Pierce? Harry Truman?), they are probably ignorant of what the word "transgendered" means, too. :rolleyes:

But you make a good point, Sarah. Sometimes the direct, honest, deadpan response is the most disarming.

[Maria 60]

Was coming back from a job an had three guys in the van, we passed a park and at the corner of my eye i seen a cder walking on a walk way of the park. All at once one of my co-worker screams out OMG! i just seen a guy there wearing a skirt and heels. The other guys wanted to see to and told me to turn around. I told them leave the guy alone, he's not not hurting anyone. Went quite in the truck for a second and one of them said didn't know you felt that way. I said i don't see what the big deal is. At the back of my mind i was thinking that he had a lot courage to be walking around in daylight, good for him.

[Kelly DeWinter]

After reading your statement about ignorance I felt sad Sarah. The interchange that followed was interesting. And then Nicole hit me hard.



Hey Nicole! I haven't even dared to poke my powdered nose out in the open, though I have thought recently of doing exactly that which you've condemned. I find cders extremely strong-willed who not only undertake but also describe such tentative trips.

Kelly was a little harsh on you, though I was relieved and grateful that she reacted.
But I felt even sadder when I read Sarah's original post again.

Gaby

My apologies gaby, I did not want to be harh and I appologise to anyone whom i have offended, I believe in unity within the community so it's hard to see people within our own community making those kind of comments. There will be a day in the very near future when your gender identity will not matter. I see us all working towards the same goal.


Brave women step out of that front door everyday and are just fine. RuPaul came out in the 90's (things were worse then) and the world laughed right along with her. Did people laugh at her? Why yes silly, I laughed and joked too, but the whole time I was crying inside wishing I had that life. What's the difference in my life and hers? Nothing. She has the courage to be herself, that's all. When you have the courage to be yourself no words can cut you that deep.

There have been several manly men actors play CD/GLBT roles. Too Wong Foo, Milk, Brokeback Mnt, just for a few. Did these actors catch hell for the roles they played? Not really. There's a few award winning roles, the masses LIKED the movie and the actor playing the role. Why is this? They just did it. They didn't ask if they should, they just did it and the world be damned if they don't like it.

I am going to spend the rest of my life trying to follow my own advice.

Nice reffrences.


Was coming back from a job an had three guys in the van, we passed a park and at the corner of my eye i seen a cder walking on a walk way of the park. All at once one of my co-worker screams out OMG! i just seen a guy there wearing a skirt and heels. The other guys wanted to see to and told me to turn around. I told them leave the guy alone, he's not not hurting anyone. Went quite in the truck for a second and one of them said didn't know you felt that way. I said i don't see what the big deal is. At the back of my mind i was thinking that he had a lot courage to be walking around in daylight, good for him.

Maria, Yes he showed a lot of courage , and you did as well, I'm really poud of you sister.

[Miranda09]

Was coming back from a job an had three guys in the van, we passed a park and at the corner of my eye i seen a cder walking on a walk way of the park. All at once one of my co-worker screams out OMG! i just seen a guy there wearing a skirt and heels. The other guys wanted to see to and told me to turn around. I told them leave the guy alone, he's not not hurting anyone. Went quite in the truck for a second and one of them said didn't know you felt that way. I said i don't see what the big deal is. At the back of my mind i was thinking that he had a lot courage to be walking around in daylight, good for him.


That's exactly what I'm talking about Maria...good for you! :)

[kendallsan]

My older sister and I used to be best friends. During the beginning of my relationship with my husband, I told her about his crossdressing. She didn't understand it, but we talked about it and she understood that I accepted it and it was part of our relationship. We had long talks about crossdressing and the fact that it was primarily a heterosexual activity, and I talked through MY initial acceptance of this part of my life with her. Obviously not everything, but as I learned, I talked to her about things, and she knew enough to know what it was all about. Still not her cup of tea, but that's fine, he was not with her, he was with me.

Several years later, we had a fight about something completely unrelated and out of the blue she accused him of being a child molester based solely on the fact that she knew he was a crossdresser. She told me she would not allow my two nephews to visit us and said some truly horrible things. I never told my husband what she said - I saw no reason to hurt him like she hurt me.

To this day, almost a decade later, she does not understand that she said anything wrong and does not feel that she needs to apologize for anything. I have not spoken to her since that day. She does not deserve us in her life.

I am worth more than having to listen to the ignorance of others. If someone I am with feels the need to disparage someone else, I am quick to shut them down. Racist, sexist, genderist, whatever -ist you have - keep it away from me. All of my friends know that about me and have learned not to talk that way around me, and more than a few of them have told me they stopped doing it in general once they thought about it after I said something. It really only takes one person to speak up and say something, and you really can make a difference.

[sometimes_miss]

Sure, we're a lot closer than we were 50 years ago, but will we EVER live in society where males aren't "pushed" to be so masculine?
I don't know whether we're 'pushed'; we can be as feminine as we want. But with that, comes problems. You make yourself target for males to take advantage of you, and of course, eliminate a real whole lot of women as potential romantic partners.

[MsJanessa]

Wow I don't know what to think reading the comments here---I guess first I wouldn't hang out with people that use words like "fag" and "queer"--secondly I can't help but get the feeling that there are some posters who have a problem with gay/bisexual crossdressers--that's unfortunate because although many of us are straight, many of us aren't and tolerance should be extended to all---there is nothing wrong with being gay/bi and being a crossdresser. As far as outing somebody I couldn't imagine doing it no matter what the provocation. It would be a betrayal of trust.

[Samantha B L]

I know I sound elitist. I stopped hanging out with "Pabst in bottles" types years and years ago. When I was still in my teens I would pretend to chuckle along with people about that guy in a dress or those queers over there in the aisleway. I stopped doing that years ago. Even though I don't nescearily out myself I make it clear to people who say such things that several of my cousins are gay or lesbian and sometimes even that I dress. Mainly,I stopped hanging out with such cretins years ago,however,I don't mind the company of the "Pabst in bottles" folks if there not hostile or out to pick a fight